[Paul]

http://psp.ign.com/articles/514/514135p1.html

[Shogmaster]

I'm at the show floor right now, and I have to tell ya, PSP presentation was pretty damn impressive as a hardware, and DS's was just downright pathetic.

PSP had several real time tech demoes including a version of the rubber duck in sink demo used when PS2 debued. The lighting, the rippling of the water, geometry of the objects, they were all pretty damn good. Another demo had a model of a planet that you can change the lighting and change the surface from desert planet to a "green" one with water. This one featured perrty good bumpmapping (not DOT3, which was stressed by the demo guy). Another had a character running, jumping, and rolling in a tube of a cavern, and another had a simply shaded virtual city scape that you can change the lighting etc..

And then on the other side of the demo area were actual game engines being demoed. Most were just rolling demoes, but some you could interact with in limited amounts. These looks to me about really early DC game level in geometry and shading. Interesting thing that I noticed was that all of these game engine demoes were running in 16bit color output, where as the tech demoes were running in 24bit color, so dithering was pretty evident. Still, not bad and again about equivilent to what early DC games were doing.

Game engine demoes I can recall are Ape Escape (pretty close to PS2 version in overall feel), MGS Acid (X-COM style turn based game), a hockey and soccer games (not quite DC level in geometry for the players), Tony Hawk game (looks similar to the version demoed for the MBX), Spider man game (think PS1 with PS2FXs), and a 2D traditional JP RPG (ironically the most interactive/playable of the demoes). That's a lot of freakin games demoing!

Physically, the unit is extremely well designed and put together. And that analog slider pad is pretty damn effective. I was impressed with the execution of the analog "slider" espect. Very space efficient.

The guys there were totally mum on the price though, and from looking at the thing first hand, I have no doubt that this thing will be at least $299. Some attendees were nodding their head at $399 without much rebuttal. And they were also very cagy about battery life as well. No one wanted to suggest anything solid, except to say that it's somewhere between 2.5 ~ 10 quoted by Sony.

As for DS, I'm depressed just to talk about it. Let's just say that I was gonna get the DS to replace my SP I had "lost" before today, and after looking at it and playing with it in person, I'm just going to get SP now. No way in hell I'm carrying that ugly thing in public. It's freaking HUGE for no reason to boot! Makes PSP look positively slim. The pre-hands on presentation with the skanky twin MCs (get it? twins? Two screens? X_X) didn't help matters, nor the incredibly cheesy video of executive acting mildly retarded playing with DS and messaging eachother. WTF? Execs are gonna leave their Palm pilots and PPCs at home and use DS in their workplace? PURLEEEZE!!!!

The unit itself is ugly, and uncomfortable. The shoulder buttons are now just two tiny orange circles, and are difficult to find without looking, and very uncomfortable to use. The face buttons are the size of a gnat's testicles, and if you have fat fingers, forgetaboutit. The passive digitiser in place of a analog pad is just stupid, and I don't think the gimmiky use of the digitiser is gonna advance gaming in the long run. It didn't help PDA gaming at all for instance.

The rendered images on screen was definitely sub N64. No ifs ands or buts. Some interesting FXs were pulled off in software (like chrome and specular shading), but don't mistake this for a decent 3D unit. It's ugly.

Overall, really dissapointed with the DS. Even more than I'd imagined I'd be.

[V3]

Thanks for the impression.

So DS is actually bigger than PSP ? I would never have guess that.

[Panajev2001a]

Shog, knowing that so far most developers did not target for 32 MB of main RAM ( notice how the tech demos are running in higher color depth ? ) and that the emulators ( which developers do not like much, but you can ask them ) used to run at around 1-5 fps ( peak ), I am impressed by DC level polygonal detail with somewhat better special FX.

I know for a fact that at least some developers started targeting lower polygon counts than what they originally wanted for two reasons mainly: the most relevant was the 8 MB of main RAM and then you had the emulator's performance ( crappy ).

I think that the games will have a chance to improve in quality as developers get to work on faster SDKs and then full speed PSP Hardware.

[zurich]

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE Squenix, shock us all with a 3D remake Final Fantasy (or better yet, an original Sakaguchi-Final Fantasy, none of this Crystal Chronicals/Tactics/Vagrant Story stuff!)

[Paul]

Chrono Trigger remake good enough?

http://psp.ign.com/objects/683/683108.html

[Paul]

Chrono Trigger remake good enough?

http://psp.ign.com/objects/683/683108.html

[zurich]

Originally Posted by Paul

Chrono Trigger remake good enough?

http://psp.ign.com/objects/683/683108.html

:?

Better than nothing! Is this announced or rumoured?

[MrSingh]

for now, you won't find square enix on DS or PSP. weird bunch.

[Goldni]

Shog, No offense but I'm gonna get a few more impressions before I take you seriously. I've talked to three seperate friends that are at E3 and all have just about said opposite of what you said. Now they are VERY impressed with the 3D capabilities of PSP but it's nothing innovative like DS. I mean it's a damn fine technical piece of HW but it's really just 'portable' PS2 games you will be able to take along with you..along with multimedia capabilities.

People I've talked to have been extremely impressed with the DS ideas. And the Metroid Prime Hunters game looks damn good (between N64 and DC)..I thought this thing was just gonna be a step up from GBA?!? While the system itself is'nt as sexy looking as the GBASP, it's still not finalized according to Ninty.

I wish I were there with all of you guys...I'm wit hyou on the PSP hype. I'll be waiting in line for one but I've already went to EB this morning. They've began taking preorders for the DS..I got one. There's too many cool ass ideas that can be done with this thing. Imagine playing a football game where you actually draw out each play (X's & O's) on the bottom screen and the gameplay is on the top screen showing the Wide out running the exact pattern you just drew. Pretty dang kewl if you ask me!

[Lazy8s]

Why would a conservative company like Square Enix be anywhere right now but with the best selling console in the world, the Game Boy Advance?

[Paul]

You'd better not ruin my topic, though I can tell when I wake up tomorrow this thread will be 12+ pages.

[Lazy8s]

Just keeping it in perspective. Hopefully, it'll head off any crazy, speculative tangents.

[zurich]

Originally Posted by Lazy8s

Why would a conservative company like Square Enix be anywhere right now but with the best selling console in the world, the Game Boy Advance?

Hey, they put out gems like FF IV on WonderSwan With Sony holding a large number of Square (now Squenix) shares, it's not like they're truly independent.

Besides, Sony has said that the royalties on PSP games will be quite low to attract developer support. So why wouldn't a conservative company like Squenix support a potential gold mine that is PSP?

Only thing I could think of would be strange restrictive covenants relating to 'Final Fantasy' and 'hand held systems' in their agreement with Nintendo and GBA.

I hope a surprise anouncement is coming..

[archie4oz]

Why would a conservative company like Square Enix be anywhere right now but with the best selling console in the world, the Game Boy Advance?

Well since you're calling the GBA a "console", what about the PS2, GCN, PSOne, WSC, PC? Square-Enix isn't really THAT conservative... My old coworkers there tell me it's only a matter of time and that they are looking into the PSP. The DS is more of a question mark although I imagine GDS would probably dev some titles for it....

With Sony holding a large number of Square

Large number? It's not even 10%!!!

[Farid]

Originally Posted by Goldni

And the Metroid Prime Hunters game looks damn good (between N64 and DC)..

[Keanu Reeves]Woah[/Keanu Reeves]

Meaning between N64 and DC, is meaning >N64, wich is definitely not obvious... Point filtering/software rendering only put it under N64, IMHO.

Originally Posted by Goldni

I mean it's a damn fine technical piece of HW but it's really just 'portable' PS2 games you will be able to take along with you..along with multimedia capabilities.

... And that's a lot.

Originally Posted by Goldni

There's too many cool ass ideas that can be done with this thing.

Cool ideas that even Nintendo could not find... except if put a map on screen 2 is labeled "cool" nowadays.

Sorry but i'm underwhelmed by the DS for the moment , i won't even talk about it specs, just about the fact that Nintendo didn't even showed one game that justify all those "revolutionnary" claims...IMHO

I imagined that we'll see at least some puzzle games that will take advantage of the Dual screens, something that's not graphicly exceptional but so addictive when you play it... Ã* la Tetris. Or a game that will be so cool and so tied to its machine (two screen + touchpad) that it worth alone to buy the DS.

Instead of that they showed us games that have nothing special, except a gimmick or two (add a "stylus chat" to a game is what i call a gimmick but it's just me).

I'll buy the machine that's a fact(i'm a console collector), but what i'm not buying is the fact that it's revolutionnary. Only time will tell anyway.

[Shogmaster]

Originally Posted by Goldni

Shog, No offense but I'm gonna get a few more impressions before I take you seriously. I've talked to three seperate friends that are at E3 and all have just about said opposite of what you said. Now they are VERY impressed with the 3D capabilities of PSP but it's nothing innovative like DS. I mean it's a damn fine technical piece of HW but it's really just 'portable' PS2 games you will be able to take along with you..along with multimedia capabilities.

Hey man. No offense taken. Afterall, it's just another man's opinion in a sea of opinions, so you take it as you will. But I would like to point out that A) I'm neither a Nintendo fan nor a hater, so my view of the DS is not tainted by bias in one way or another, and B) I do obesess about handheld devices more than your average Joe, having owned and used various Palm OS and PPC devices for the last 8 years, so things like a passive digitiser in gaming is nothing new to me, and so I won't suffer from the excessive "Ooh! a touch screen!" wow-factor that most people seem to have fallen into with the DS.

People I've talked to have been extremely impressed with the DS ideas.

I will admit, they were cute ideas. Drawing a pac-man shape to create a line art pac-man that gobbles up ghost was "neat-o". But after the initial cuteness wears off in few minutes, you're left with not much of a "game". The same with the virtual lathe (sp?) demo they had. After a minute, most were making penis shapes to amuse themselves while waiting for the next demo to open up. Neat? Sure. Fun? Maybe for a minute. Gaming revolution? I don't see it. And I lived with a stylus in my hand for the last 8 years.

And the Metroid Prime Hunters game looks damn good (between N64 and DC)..

NonononononononoNO! I know what I said about opinions and all but that's is just f'n wrong dude. MP Hunter is somewhere between Saturn and PSOne. N64 don't even enter into it, let alone the DC. No f'n way. I don't care how thick your MP or Nintendo goggle is, that's just wrong. No sir. I veto that whole notion out of principle!

I thought this thing was just gonna be a step up from GBA?!? While the system itself is'nt as sexy looking as the GBASP, it's still not finalized according to Ninty.

I certainly hope it's not finalized, but as I see it (as an industrial designer no less), the design of the casing is done. The only change will be the color of the plastics used.

I wish I were there with all of you guys...I'm wit hyou on the PSP hype. I'll be waiting in line for one but I've already went to EB this morning. They've began taking preorders for the DS..I got one. There's too many cool ass ideas that can be done with this thing. Imagine playing a football game where you actually draw out each play (X's & O's) on the bottom screen and the gameplay is on the top screen showing the Wide out running the exact pattern you just drew. Pretty dang kewl if you ask me!

I think you might want to aim low on expectations of the whole passive digitiser aspect on the gaming. You'll be less disappointed later IMHO.

[thop]

The problem is really that the battery life and the size (and probably the price) will kill the PSP, superior design or graphics doesn't really matter then anymore. There is no use to buy a portable if it ain't really portable I see Sega Game Gear and Atari Lynx all over again.

The Game Gear was vastly superior, especially because of the color display and the backlight! But then after 2 hours the batteries went flat.

[Lazy8s]

zurich:

So why wouldn't a conservative company like Squenix support a potential gold mine that is PSP?

Right. They're the kind of company that'd keep up a noncommittal facade until the time is right for a big announcement, just to make a big splash but not burn any (expensive) bridges in the meantime. Which explains their current behavior.

[Farid]

Originally Posted by thop

The problem is really that the battery life and the size (and probably the price) will kill the PSP, superior design or graphics doesn't really matter then anymore. There is no use to buy a portable if it ain't really portable I see Sega Game Gear and Atari Lynx all over again.

The Game Gear was vastly superior, especially because of the color display and the backlight! But then after 2 hours the batteries went flat.

Lynx and Gamegear were the size of a Ford Pinto too.
And they were using non rechargeable batteries (6 batteries for the GG), as they were targeted to kids, Mom and Dad would have to pay the mentionned batteries with a life of a few hours (it depend of the batteries). Sure it killed those two machines.

[PC-Engine]

I think comparing DS to PSP is kinda pointless to begin with. Two totally different price brackets. If people were expecting at least DC visuals from DS, they should really get a grip.

PSP's price and battery life are the factors that are gonna decide relevent sales numbers, not graphics, not industrial design...

[jvd]

I predict in 2 years gb 2 comes out with graphics a little beyond gamecube .

I also predict the ds will be dirt cheap and is basicly there to resell n64 games and why the hell not . Thats what the psp is for too

[marconelly!]

I predict in 2 years gb 2 comes out with graphics a little beyond gamecube .

It will be most welcome. However, I doubt Nintendo will shoot at something pricey for their 'main' Gameboy line, and something with GC+ graphics (and screen to go with it) will probably have to be pricey even in two years.

[rabidrabbit]

Originally Posted by jvd

I predict in 2 years gb 2 comes out with graphics a little beyond gamecube .

I also predict the ds will be dirt cheap and is basicly there to resell n64 games and why the hell not . Thats what the psp is for too

PSP has N64 ports?
The list of announced games doesn't even include PSOne ports (at least not many, are some of those 2D rpg's PSOne ports?), and only some PS2 ports (GT4, NFSU, NBA games...)

....and I predict, that in 2-3 years after GBA2 (or whatever it'll be called), PSP2 comes out with graphics a little below PS3

[PC-Engine]

I predict in 2 years gb 2 comes out with graphics a little beyond gamecube .

That's what some don't understand. It's not like Nintendo doesn't have the tech right now to design a PSP-like handheld. They're intentionally waiting until PSP design/specs are finalized. Right now they have 99.9% of the market so why should they rush out a PSP like device when they're making huge profits? MBX is available now. After PSP is released MBX and similar tech isn't magically going to disappear or get more expensive. Battery tech isn't going to get worse either

....and I predict, that in 2-3 years after GBA2 (or whatever it'll be called), PSP2 comes out with graphics a little below PS3

The important thing is GBA2 will be available not too long after PSP is released. We're talking about 2-3 from now not from the time PSP launches