[digitalwanderer]

Originally Posted by Geeforcer

Question: Is there anything Nvidia can (or cannot) do that you wouldn't interpret as either the tell-tale sigh of an insidious plan or the foreshadowing of their imminent doom?

Lemme think on that one and get back to you, it's a toughy!

[radar1200gs]

Originally Posted by Hellbinder

Hey, I just want to say one more time that I think NV40 is an ok product from early information. I only think that Nvidia is focusing on the Wrong things right now thats all. I am not suggesting that people in general should not buy it. All the cards comming out are going to be plently fast for gaming over the next year. ITs going to come down to other factors. Like Design elegance, total pakcage, Actual in game IQ stuff like that. I suppose performance in specific games that people are really looking forward to is a big issue as well. Doom-III people will perhaps want the Nv40 etc...

Just about every card nVidia has ever released from the TNT-1 onwards has been bigger, hotter, heavier, more "brute force" (less efficient than the competition) and none of that has ever stopped consumers from purchasing them, as their competitors will sadly attest.

[Bahadir]

All i can say is the Geforce6800U will beat the X800Pro in almost all areas and will take on the performance crown although it will be very hot, noisy and suck alot of juice, hence 450W min PS would be required. The X800Pro would be alot quieter and would draw less current from the PS.

But, when the X800XT will be launched in a couple of months, the performance gap will be much narrower with the XT leading the various benchmarks in some areas...

That's just a prediction :P

[Joe DeFuria]

Originally Posted by radar1200gs

Just about every card nVidia has ever released from the TNT-1 onwards has been bigger, hotter, heavier, more "brute force" (less efficient than the competition) and none of that has ever stopped consumers from purchasing them, as their competitors will sadly attest.

That is, until the R300/NV3X generation.

Bigger, hotter, more power hungry is OK...unless your competitor is meeting or beating your product in performance while it's smaller, cooler, and less power hungry....then you're in trouble, as nVidia would attest.

[Nick Spolec]

Originally Posted by digitalwanderer

No argument, that IS weird and very un-nVidia like IMHO. Good observation.

Oh, give them a chance, will ya?.......to show their normal behavior.

If the NV40 isn't ready for mass-market for another 2 months or more, I can guarentee you Nvidia will flood the web with propaganda.

[digitalwanderer]

Originally Posted by Nick Spolec

Oh, give them a chance, will ya?.......to show their normal behavior.

If the NV40 isn't ready for mass-market for another 2 months or more, I can guarentee you Nvidia will flood the web with propaganda.

Hey, I'm counting on that!

I just don't see the point in antagonizing anyone un-necessarily yet by reminding 'em, everyone seems so darn sensitive lately.



(Sorry, sorry...prelaunch jitters. I'll calm down sometime later tomorrow.)

[reever]

Originally Posted by Doomtrooper

Does the trend continue for scalable VPUs from ATI

How much more do you need? They already have 4gpu solutions, granted that's on 2 pcb's, and then we have SGI systems with 32 R300's in it. Isn't the r300 capable of 256+ gpu's anyways?

[DemoCoder]

Looking at the leaked (possibly bogus) prices for the NV40 ($299 for NV40, $399 for NV40U), I have to wonder if NVidia is saving something for the $499 pricepoint. ATI's X800XT "leaked" prices (again, possibly bogus) is $499. I'm thinking in June they will announce something new, perhaps a PCI-E version of the NV40 @ > 450Mhz, with 1.2Ghz or higher RAM.

The is possibly the most exciting 3D launch we've had in a while. Both vendors are launching nearly simultaneously, launching extremely interesting parts, and they are racing neck and neck to upstage the other. Hell, if the $399 NV40U rumor is true, it sounds like Nvidia is selling this one at a loss, but whom am I to argue if companies want to slash prices and offer uber deals to get my patronage?

[mikechai]

That prices couldn't be true. Just too good to be true.
________
EXTREME VAPORIZER REVIEW

[Psikotiko]

little OT.....

http://www.hardocp.com/

ATI Radeon R420 Roadmap:
Secret double agents in Zimbabwe have turned over classified ATI documents. The below specifications outline a whole host of information about the upcoming flagship VPU from ATI.

First we have the names that will be attached to the VPUs that will scale across three levels of performance with the same VPU. The "X800XT" and the "X880XT" being the "same" card but with a different interface, with the latter being a PCI-Express X16 card. You will see that the PCI-Express core is labeled "R423" as it is in fact a native PCI-Express part and not the same CPU as the R420 with an adaptive bridge to allow the VPU to work on both interfaces. (It is yet to be seen if there is a performance impact from using a bridged VPU/GPU.) Notice as the clocks and memory speeds scale across the product line, so does the pixel pipelines that are turned on or off to further define performance levels.

Last but certainly not least are the projected release dates and MSRP prices in US dollars.

This information did not come from ATI but a source that has proven to be correct in the past. I would categorize this information as "solid but unconfirmed".

If it was already posted........sorry.

[radar1200gs]

Originally Posted by Joe DeFuria

That is, until the R300/NV3X generation.

Bigger, hotter, more power hungry is OK...unless your competitor is meeting or beating your product in performance while it's smaller, cooler, and less power hungry....then you're in trouble, as nVidia would attest.

The problems for NV30 were time to market and quantities available (not helped by out of control PR for an unvailable product).

[Geeforcer]

I personally tend to scratch my head at any purported "official IHV roadmap" that denotes the amount of transistors as two numbers with a dash.

Edit: What you say you say?

[Joe DeFuria]

Originally Posted by Psikotiko

little OT.....

http://www.hardocp.com/

Looks like their source is Dark Crow / gzeasy, who posted an indentical chart yesterday or the day before. Dave has already commented that "certain aspects" of that are wrong. Don't know what though. (I personally have a hard time believing in 600 Mhz clock speeds for the XTs...)

[Joe DeFuria]

Originally Posted by radar1200gs

The problems for NV30 were time to market and quantities available (not helped by out of control PR for an unvailable product).

...becuase they couldn't make it bigger, hotter and consume enough power to actually beat a R300 that was launched months earlier.

[DemoCoder]

Just about two years ago, the R300 Pro was released, with 19.2Gb/s of bandwidth and 2.6Gpix/s (or op/s) peak fillrate. Now in June, we're looking at (if it is believed), a card with 38.4Gb/s bandwidth, and 9.6Gpix/s (or op/s) 2x the bandwidth, and 3.5x the fillrate in 2 years.

Exciting times we live in. CPU evolution (except for what I read about CELL) is practically boring. Where's my 6Ghz pentium?

[radar1200gs]

Originally Posted by Joe DeFuria

...becuase they couldn't make it bigger, hotter and consume enough power to actually beat a R300 that was launched months earlier.

If it had launched on time, the R300 wouldn't have mattered. Of course TSMC stuffed that up nicely. They won't be getting the chance with NV40.

[demalion]

Originally Posted by DemoCoder

...

The is possibly the most exciting 3D launch we've had in a while. Both vendors are launching nearly simultaneously, launching extremely interesting parts, and they are racing neck and neck to upstage the other.
...

This seems a pretty safe prediction, I agree.

[Joe DeFuria]

Originally Posted by DemoCoder

Just about two years ago, the R300 Pro was released, with 19.2Gb/s of bandwidth and 2.6Gpix/s (or op/s) peak fillrate. Now in June, we're looking at (if it is believed), a card with 38.4Gb/s bandwidth, and 9.6Gpix/s (or op/s) 2x the bandwidth, and 3.5x the fillrate in 2 years.

Exciting times we live in. CPU evolution (except for what I read about CELL) is practically boring. Where's my 6Ghz pentium?

My thoughts exactly. It seems that Intel / AMD have been stuck in the 3 Gz (or 3000+) rut for what, a year?

[Joe DeFuria]

Originally Posted by radar1200gs

If it had launched on time, the R300 wouldn't have mattered. Of course TSMC stuffed that up nicely.

No, if NV30 launched on time, then R300 wouldv'e launched 6 months earlier, of course. (It's easy to play the "but if" game, eh?) And TSMC doesn't seem to be stuffing up anything from ATI....

[DemoCoder]

AMD really annoys me. If you look at their CPU's per clock performance, they could OWN Intel if they just released a real 3Ghz chip instead of a 2.4Ghz one. I'd like to see how a 3.4Ghz FX53 compares to a 3.4 P4EE
Anyway, for a while, CPU's were rapidly advancing, then, as you said, they seem to be stuck in 2-3Ghz land.

[reever]

Originally Posted by DemoCoder

Exciting times we live in. CPU evolution (except for what I read about CELL) is practically boring. Where's my 6Ghz pentium?

Wait until leakage becomes a big problem with GPU's once we get smaller

[Nick Spolec]

Originally Posted by radar1200gs

If it had launched on time, the R300 wouldn't have mattered. Of course TSMC stuffed that up nicely.

If the NV30 launched on time, the R300 would have still been faster, quieter, better.

[Ardrid]

Originally Posted by DemoCoder

AMD really annoys me. If you look at their CPU's per clock performance, they could OWN Intel if they just released a real 3Ghz chip instead of a 2.4Ghz one. I'd like to see how a 3.4Ghz FX53 compares to a 3.4 P4EE
Anyway, for a while, CPU's were rapidly advancing, then, as you said, they seem to be stuck in 2-3Ghz land.

Easier said than done. Because AMD has such a high IPC, they can't simply ratchet the clock speeds up like Intel can. They have to go slow. In any event, why go faster when you're already doing more with less?

[DemoCoder]

Yeah yeah, but I can dream, can't I? Anyway, both Intel and AMD seem stuck in a rutt. Maybe IBM/Toshiba/Sony et al can shake them up.

[Joe DeFuria]

Originally Posted by DemoCoder

AMD really annoys me. If you look at their CPU's per clock performance, they could OWN Intel if they just released a real 3Ghz chip instead of a 2.4Ghz one. I'd like to see how a 3.4Ghz FX53 compares to a 3.4 P4EE
Anyway, for a while, CPU's were rapidly advancing, then, as you said, they seem to be stuck in 2-3Ghz land.

I still get a chuckle when I think back to my days of just getting interested in 3D acceleration. The days of the Gaming Glint (Creative Labs 3D Blaster) and nVidia NV-1 (Diamond Edge 3D). Something called AGP was supposed to mean the end of on-board graphics memory, and MS Talisman was going to be more or less "required" for high performance graphics, because, (paraphrasing), "memory bandwidth just isn't progressing. We won't be seeing the ceiling of 10 GB /sec needed for high quality rendering any time soon."