[PaulS]

Originally Posted by digitalwanderer

Just noticed this over at EB, try:

EDITED BITS: It just takes you to here, a PR release for their LAN party tomorrow.

Yep, but that's what, four clicks in? Compare that to ATi.com

Sorry to go on, it just seems strange to me.

[digitalwanderer]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Yep, but that's what, four clicks in? Compare that to ATi.com

No argument, that IS weird and very un-nVidia like IMHO. Good observation.

Sorry to go on, it just seems strange to me.

You kidding? This is the stuff that rampant speculation the night before a big release is made of!

[thatdude90210]

The hype comes in the form of whispering into people's ears, the people who are likely to leak the info. You know who, the people who were insisting early that it's 16pipes, over 12k in 3dmark03, ps3.0, etc.

[T2k]

Originally Posted by DemoCoder

I love that quote. It really crystalizes some of the attitudes on this board.

I agree.
First of all its author's...

[DemoCoder]

Put up or shut up, find a "gloating" post of mine.

[T2k]

Originally Posted by DemoCoder

Put up or shut up, find a "gloating" post of mine.

Put up or shut up? Where do you live, in The Bronx?


FYI: it's not about gloating, don't try to derail the subject.
The quoted post was made by you after my comment on HB's fun on one of Chalnoth's funny statements - which clearly showed me your intentions to turn around the story 180 degrees... whatever, I'm not interested in these stupid accusations, neither pro or contra.

PS: BTW it wouldn't take too much time to find one of your hundreds of NV-defending posts...

[John Reynolds]

Originally Posted by T2k

I agree.
First of all its author's...

Cough:

Guys, let's stop the calling of each other out. Mmmkay?

I don't make posts like the above to practice my typing skills.

[T2k]

Originally Posted by John Reynolds

Cough:

I don't make posts like the above to practice my typing skills.

OK, I've just noticed yours.

[digitalwanderer]

Originally Posted by DemoCoder

Put up or shut up, find a "gloating" post of mine.

DemoCoder please don't feed the trolls, you're better than that. And T2K, please refrain yourself. If y'all want to fight, may I humbly suggest PMs?

Please don't get this thread closed you two, some of us have some pretty boring Monday nights ahead of us and just might need this distraction.

EDITED BITS: "two" for "too", gads I'm an idiot!

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Yep, but that's what, four clicks in? Compare that to ATi.com

Sorry to go on, it just seems strange to me.

Could it be an indication that this will be a paper launch and Nvidia will have nothing to actually ship for months? After all, you wouldn't advertise if you have no product to sell.

[tEd]

Originally Posted by digitalwanderer

DemoCoder please don't feed the trolls, you're better than that. And T2K, please refrain yourself. If y'all want to fight, may I humbly suggest PMs?

Please don't get this thread closed you two, some of us have some pretty boring Monday nights ahead of us and just might need this distraction.

EDITED BITS: "two" for "too", gads I'm an idiot!

i have a job for you dig if you are bored:
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11445

[digitalwanderer]

Originally Posted by tEd

i have a job for you dig if you are bored:
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11445

Can't right now, I'm just killing time waiting 'til it's time to give the kids a bath and tuck 'em in...then I'm really not sure if I'm going to try that or not depending on how much time I have before me wife gets off work. (She HATES coming home to me playing with her 'puter. )

Sorry for the OT, back to the thread.

[gb25]

Originally Posted by Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.

Could it be an indication that this will be a paper launch and Nvidia will have nothing to actually ship for months? After all, you wouldn't advertise if you have no product to sell.

That didn't stop nvidia from hyping the nv30. Remember the "Are you ready?" campaign they started well before the nv30 was actually released.

[digitalwanderer]

Originally Posted by gb25

That didn't stop nvidia from hyping the nv30. Remember the "Are you ready?" campaign they started well before the nv30 was actually released.

Hard as it is for me to even contemplate, but mebbe they learned from their past mistake?

[Dave Baumann]

There is a number of things they have learnt from their past mistakes, certainly from a press perspective.

[digitalwanderer]

Originally Posted by DaveBaumann

There is a number of things they have learnt from their past mistakes, certainly from a press perspective.

Is it any better/easier dealing with their PR people this time around? (Can you talk about that?)

[DemoCoder]

Originally Posted by gb25

That didn't stop nvidia from hyping the nv30. Remember the "Are you ready?" campaign they started well before the nv30 was actually released.

Apparently ATI learned something from NVidia. *cough* "Latest Secret Weapon"

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

Originally Posted by gb25

That didn't stop nvidia from hyping the nv30. Remember the "Are you ready?" campaign they started well before the nv30 was actually released.

That's my point. After last time, many people won't stand for a constantly delayed release date. Anything in the NV40 launch that echoes the NV30 launch problems will be bad news for Nvidia's already tarnished reputation.

[demalion]

The commentary on PS 2.0 being useless for its lifetime strikes me as rather nonsensical. The minimums it brought to the table have been used to offer more advanced effects in quite a few places, and this seems rather remarkably obvious. Just because it hasn't been baseline for engine development doesn't change that.

This makes about as much sense as comparing PS 3.0 to prior shader models instead of looking at how it is distinct from them. It doesn't directly compare to PS 1.4 for being proposed as having a lack of adoption except in how it doesn't make sense as a baseline immediately after release. Its advantages over PS 2.0 (for real-time usage on hardware in the near future) seem to be of lesser significance than for PS 1.4 in its time of release, primarily delivering some ease of implementation and possible efficiency improvements that might or might not be delivered by the hardware implementation. This lesser significance compared to what PS 2.0 offers is largely in relation to tools that facilitate handling the difference more easily and there being less critical "doors to be opened" compared to PS 2.0 than for PS 1.4 compared to PS 1.3, both of which highlight a positive difference from the time of PS 1.4 as well...

As a result of this is, I don't see why in the world developers won't take advantage of those tools and make PS 3.0 a target right away, to go along with PS 2.0 becoming more of a baseline. The discussions on this matter seem IHV-centric and end up ignoring how things already depart greatly from the NV3x and its PS 2.x, the most comparable recent example: the NV40 seems to deliver a full set of useful pixel shading features, so the hardware offering the "beyond PS 2.0" this time does not resemble the NV3x and its "beyond PS 2.0" in this important way, even if the marketing goes overboard with it again.

PS 3.0 is already less of a purely "checklist" feature for developers than the NV30 and NV35 offered. The marketing and technical hardware aspects of the name do not preclude each other, one can be bad or good without dictating the other must be as well.

[hoom]

My guesses: (like it matters )

Locally it'll be the 15th before I get to see any info...

NV40 will be crowned king by most sites/magazines for the simple fact that it is the first next generation card to be tested.
Unless there are already some r420 cards in the hands reviewers that is...

If the buzzer is actually there for sound cancellation & it actually works & the review boards were sent out with the sticker on it, then only reviewers who bothered to read all the documentation/got in touch with nv/? will have taken the sticker off & discovered that their card is not so noisy after all.

Nobody will mention that the fan design is totally wrong

There's likely to be much mention of 'two slot cooler' (which I actually don't mind since the only expansion card I have is my 56k & its right down the bottom).
But if ATI can get away with single slot (even cut down from 9800xt ) then thats surely better.

Much 'OMFG'/'well its the price you pay for performance' about dual molex.
Again, if ATI can pull off similar performance with a single molex, it makes nv look bad.

PS2.0 performance will be vastly better than nv3x but given that nv3x had very poor ps2.0 performance, that doesn't necessarily mean too much.
I think nv40 will beat 9800xt on some really shader heavy tests by a surprisingly (or not depending on bias) small margin.

3dmark03 won't be back in a big way (give or take no driver cheats).
Especially when (?) r420 winds up doing 10000+ too.
3dmark04 is surely not far away, hopefully with scoring ps2.0 tests & demonstration ps3.0.
I hope it will 'feel' better than 03.
Certainly 03 won't be getting a ps3.0 test added.

Ps3.0 will be widely used in games fairly early (Farcry already with no hardware out yet ) but mostly only in the form of ps2.0 compiled to ps3.0 (much as many complex ps1.x can be recompiled as fairly simple/more efficient ps2.0).
NV will play this up big time regardless of whether it actually equates to a performance/image quality gain.

Much will be made of fp blending, fp textures, mrt etc until (I suspect) r420 shows up with everything but dynamic branching (& fp32?), I mean, heck r300 had many of these supposedly revolutionary new things & I don't think ATI have been sitting on their ass, dynamic branching or no.

There will be usage of ATI demos to show that nv40 can actually use things like mrt & fp textures

[demalion]

Originally Posted by DemoCoder

Apparently ATI learned something from NVidia. *cough* "Latest Secret Weapon"

Actually, I think ATI had the same low key efforts for prior launches...didn't they do something like this for the R300 launch? Well, so far it seems "same old" for ATI for me, though I suppose there could be a change to go with the apparent thing they did learn from nVidia as far as making the launch possibly "sexier"...anything associated with the lips they showed has to be sexier than a chimp :P, even if it doesn't go to the same (lack of) limits as Dawn.

nVidia's "Are you Ready?" was significantly higher volume, and I think more accurately nVidia learned something (good) from nVidia by its absence this time.

[BRiT]

My question is, will Nvidia remove the cheats for the NV30 to make the NV40 look that much better (perhaps without telling anyone this is what they did)? ie: "In this test the NV40 is 700% faster than the NV30" even if in reality it would only be 200% if the NV30 had the cheats.

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by BRiT

My question is, will Nvidia remove the cheats for the NV30 to make the NV40 look that much better (perhaps without telling anyone this is what they did)? ie: "In this test the NV40 is 700% faster than the NV30" even if in reality it would only be 200% if the NV30 had the cheats.

Whilst it's a good tactic in theory, you also a) lose any potential NV3x sales, b) You reveal yourself to be a cheater (as if anyone doubted), and c) you lose even more of your reputation.

[demalion]

1) The NV3x will still live for quite a while. I'm not even sure the NV17/18(?) will be dead!
2) The rumors of the heat and power issues with the card seem to indicate to me that it won't be necessary, especially with picking and choosing benchmarks and the possibility of new titles and graphics options that simply won't run well on the NV3x (i.e., they might stop adding cheats and, unfortunately, optimizations).

[Geeforcer]

Originally Posted by Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.

Could it be an indication that this will be a paper launch and Nvidia will have nothing to actually ship for months? After all, you wouldn't advertise if you have no product to sell.

Question: Is there anything Nvidia can (or cannot) do that you wouldn't interpret as either the tell-tale sigh of an insidious plan or the foreshadowing of their imminent doom?