[cjo]

Originally Posted by DJ12

There is a flashing yellow before the put exit and one shortly after it is unlikely a loan Marshall was waving a green flag in between.

The post in question is a small structure on the left hand side of the track between the 2nd sign on the left and the 'Johnnie Walker' bridge.

http://blog.axisofoversteer.com/2012...se-closed.html

[jimbo75]

Ferrari have asked the FIA for a clarification - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/20541589

I guess that will be the end of it though.

[cjo]

Originally Posted by jimbo75

Ferrari have asked the FIA for a clarification - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/20541589

I guess that will be the end of it though.

"Asking for a clarification" will have the same result as if they appealed (afaik) - the FIA will look at it, issue any punishments necessary and then issue a clarification in the rules for next time. Its similar to the trick the teams use when they object to something on another teams car which they think is against the rules - instead of saying "We don't think this should be allowed" and arguing against the technology, they say "Are we allowed to use this?", because it allows them to contest something while being able to deny actually complaining about it.

I guess that Ferrari are either so sure that he'll get a penalty that they don't feel the need to protest directly, and can therefore avoid the negative publicity when they get the title instead, or it is a really long shot and don't want to be accused of grasping at straws.

[jimbo75]

Yep I agree with that. They know it's a long shot - having looked at the link you provided the marshal appears to be waving a green flag.

Race director Charlie Whiting has told the drivers that the first signal is what counts - whether it is a light or a flag

That's the interesting bit now.

[jimbo75]

FIA have said Vettel has no case to answer. That should be the end of it now.

[Tahir2]

Ferrari can lodge an official appeal.

[cjo]

Originally Posted by Tahir2

Ferrari can lodge an official appeal.

Not sure what about, they submitted a request for clarification, not a protest.

[jimbo75]

Yep it's over with. These things are worth questioning but no more than that, and Ferrari know it.

[Tahir2]

Yep, it's done with and Bernie wasn't too pleased with the whole affair describing it as a joke.

[Dr Evil]

Originally Posted by DJ12

https://www.youtube.com/embed/HfIs1wgJLBU

Cheat.

Wonder if anything will happen, a nice penalty that puts him in 8th will do nicely.

Come on Ferrari International Assistance, do your job.

This is for you my boy.

[UniversalTruth]

Come on Ferrari International Assistance, do your job.

They should have done something when under very suspicious circumstances in Japan Vettel's boyfriend Kimi threw Fernando out of the race without any further investigation, punishment, etc...

[Kaotik]

Originally Posted by UniversalTruth

They should have done something when under very suspicious circumstances in Japan Vettel's boyfriend Kimi threw Fernando out of the race without any further investigation, punishment, etc...

Indeed, Fernando should have been put under investigation there for pushing Kimi out of track, but I suppose the stewards thought that crashing himself out from the race on his own was punishment enough

[jimbo75]

Originally Posted by Kaotik

Indeed, Fernando should have been put under investigation there for pushing Kimi out of track, but I suppose the stewards thought that crashing himself out from the race on his own was punishment enough

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZoESZe0mCs

Alonso looks like a passenger to me in that tbh. Not sure how it can be his fault unless he's at fault for not driving up the backside of Perez.

As a comparison, if you look at how hard Kimi got out of the way of Vettel in Brazil...
(30s) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tm5i1PVRoog

Considering he was driving at what, 2x-3x faster...

I'm not saying I believe that Raikkonen deliberately took out Alonso, but to suggest that Alonso was somehow at fault is fucking ludicrous. Take a long hard look at your own guy and wonder why he didn't make 1/10th the effort to avoid Alonso at Suzuka as he did with Vettel in Brazil.

Maybe Vettel should be under investigation for driving Kimi off the track instead. Let's say a 20 second penalty and call it even?

[Kaotik]

Originally Posted by jimbo75

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZoESZe0mCs

Alonso looks like a passenger to me in that tbh. Not sure how it can be his fault unless he's at fault for not driving up the backside of Perez.

As a comparison, if you look at how hard Kimi got out of the way of Vettel in Brazil...
(30s) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tm5i1PVRoog

Considering he was driving at what, 2x-3x faster...

I'm not saying I believe that Raikkonen deliberately took out Alonso, but to suggest that Alonso was somehow at fault is fucking ludicrous. Take a long hard look at your own guy and wonder why he didn't make 1/10th the effort to avoid Alonso at Suzuka as he did with Vettel in Brazil.

Maybe Vettel should be under investigation for driving Kimi off the track instead. Let's say a 20 second penalty and call it even?

You fail to see the difference - in Alonso case Kimi was driving along the edge of the track when Alonso pushed there, to the point where Kimi even had to partly exit track due Alonso - you can see it easily in the video you linked when it's from Massas car - Alonso forces Kimi partly out of track, Kimi rightfully returns barely back to track and Alonso doesn't leave room and spins.
In Vettel case Kimi was about to crash straight into Vettel from behind, which is completely different thing (and it wasn't the only time this season when Kimi showed his incredible reflexes and skill, just from Brazil's GP him overtaking Schumacher, about 9/10 F1 drivers would have crashed there, but Schumacher & Kimi managed to drive side by side, interleaved, without issues)

Heck, this starts to sound like what people said about Hamilton on his first seasons, that people should just give him room to go where ever he wants, if that means others have to go out of track, so be it.

[UniversalTruth]

Raikkonnen should not have been there, he had nothing to do in that position when he obviously saw that there is no enough space for him. He is at fault becaause he was desperate to be exactly there. And Fernando had the choice where to go because obviously he was the first passing through this exact part of the circuit and Kimi just tried to follow him.

[Kaotik]

Originally Posted by UniversalTruth

Raikkonnen should not have been there, he had nothing to do in that position when he obviously saw that there is no enough space for him. He is at fault becaause he was desperate to be exactly there. And Fernando had the choice where to go because obviously he was the first passing through this exact part of the circuit and Kimi just tried to follow him.

Err, he was there before Fernando pushed him out, there WAS room until Fernando came there, he wasn't behind Alonso (meaning completely behind, they were rear wheel to front wheel), and he left all the room there was to leave, but Alonso decided to push him out from track regardless, just look the video you linked when it's from Massas perspective.

[Lightman]

There was simple rule introduced for situations exactly like Alonso/Raikkonen at Suzuka.

"any driver defending his position on a straight and before any braking area may use the full width of the track during his first move provided no significant portion of the car attempting to pass is alongside his. Whilst defending in this way the driver may not leave the track without justifiable reason."

To further clarify the situation he later added: "For the avoidance of doubt, if any part of the front wing of the car attempting to pass is alongside the rear wheel of the car in front this will be deemed to be a 'significant portion'."

Raikkonen had 'significant' part of his car alongside Alonso, so it was Alonso's job to leave enough space for car attempting overtake. Of course he didn't do it on purpose as he probably didn't expect Raikkonen to be this much quicker and alongside him at the first turn, but that doesn't change nothing. According to rules Raikkonen didn't do anything wrong. It would be wrong not to go for overtake, that is, I at least hope all of them in F1 are there for RACING and not processions