[rpg.314]

Thought I would make this thread since I am eager to know about the progress of display tech. Specifically, I am interested in the power consumption characteristics.

Does display power reduce over time? By what factor? Say, by 2x in half a decade? decade?

A display tech that seems to have a lot of promise is Mirasol Displays (interferometric modulators per pixel, basically). Qualcomm is apparently throwing lots of money behind it, so it seems to have promise. They claim zero active power, purely reflective display and much lower active power. How much of this is true? Does anyone here have thoughts on this?

Is there any other display tech out there that shows near term potential to reduce display power?

[3dcgi]

Unfortunately display tech takes a long time to come to market. I like Pixel Qi's combination of sunlight readable and color LCD in the same display yet it's been slow to get into any big selling products. It seems the most promising tech in the short term.

I was initially really excited about Mirasol as well, but my enthusiasm has waned over time. The colors of initial models have been washed out and I get the feeling the technology hasn't improved since it was first shown a couple years ago. A Korean e-reader using the tech already appears to have been end of lifed though I don't know how much the display had to do with this.

Electrowetting displays have sounded interesting as well, but I haven't noticed any products shipping yet.

I don't know how much power reduction has reduced in the past decade, but LED back lights have surely helped some.

[rpg.314]

Originally Posted by 3dcgi

Unfortunately display tech takes a long time to come to market. I like Pixel Qi's combination of sunlight readable and color LCD in the same display yet it's been slow to get into any big selling products. It seems the most promising tech in the short term.

I was initially really excited about Mirasol as well, but my enthusiasm has waned over time. The colors of initial models have been washed out and I get the feeling the technology hasn't improved since it was first shown a couple years ago. A Korean e-reader using the tech already appears to have been end of lifed though I don't know how much the display had to do with this.

Electrowetting displays have sounded interesting as well, but I haven't noticed any products shipping yet.

I don't know how much power reduction has reduced in the past decade, but LED back lights have surely helped some.

So is the power reduction trend in displays virtually non-existent?

The latest video showing Mirasol displays seemed to have it's colors off. It also seems they can't do 60Hz yet, which would explain partly why this tech hasn't gotten anywhere in phones/tablets and such. I would have expected it to make an impact for e-readers, but that too doesn't seem to be happening.

[3dcgi]

My understanding is while Mirasol can do video better than eink it's not 60Hz as you noted and uses more power than eink.

I haven't noticed a power reduction trend in LCDs other than occasional improvements like LED backlighting. So there doesn't appear to be a Moore's Law like trend.

I'm only a consumer of displays though maybe those that integrate them into systems know otherwise.

[rpg.314]

Originally Posted by 3dcgi

My understanding is while Mirasol can do video better than eink it's not 60Hz as you noted and uses more power than eink.

I haven't noticed a power reduction trend in LCDs other than occasional improvements like LED backlighting. So there doesn't appear to be a Moore's Law like trend.

I'm only a consumer of displays though maybe those that integrate them into systems know otherwise.

That's a major bummer.

[MfA]

The problem with mirasol is that it's binary, for smooth colours it needs to use pwm just like say plasma. Running the backplane at 600 Hz takes power. Liquavista has a better shot since it's driven the same as LCD and can be updated at very low refresh for static content.

The holy grail is a fast update ycmk stacked electrowetting display ...

[mboeller]

maybe this presentation from Mary Lou Jepsen is helpful:

http://pixelqi.com/blog1/wp-content/..._conf_deck.pdf


Also Liquavista could be a real alternative to LCDs but since Samsung purchased them they didn't release any information AFAIK: http://www.liquavista.com/default.aspx

[rpg.314]

Originally Posted by mboeller

maybe this presentation from Mary Lou Jepsen is helpful:

http://pixelqi.com/blog1/wp-content/..._conf_deck.pdf


Also Liquavista could be a real alternative to LCDs but since Samsung purchased them they didn't release any information AFAIK: http://www.liquavista.com/default.aspx

7 and 10 inch displays have INCREASED in cost over the last 4 years? Ouch....

This is unbelievable.

[zed]

Originally Posted by rpg.314

7 and 10 inch displays have INCREASED in cost over the last 4 years? Ouch....

This is unbelievable.

I'ld say a large part of this is due to the fact that theyre about the only common displays that the DPI has increased, desktop monitors DPI have been ~80-120DPI for a decade, thank god this is finally changing

[rpg.314]

Originally Posted by zed

I'ld say a large part of this is due to the fact that theyre about the only common displays that the DPI has increased, desktop monitors DPI have been ~80-120DPI for a decade, thank god this is finally changing

Good point.

[Infinisearch]

Not new technology, but I was wondering if anyone had a hands on with those Sharp RGBY displays? Does the added yellow subpixel really help color quality?

As far as power consumption is concerned like 3dcgi said the only thing I've heard of reducing power was the introduction of LED backlights.

[homerdog]

I used to sell them. They don't look any different than RGB TVs once calibrated. Although as far as gimmicks go it is a pretty cool one. Useless, but neat.

[3dcgi]

Apparently Qualcomm is changing their business model for Mirasol and the author of this article thinks its future is in doubt.
http://goodereader.com/blog/tablet-s...n-development/

[rpg.314]

Yeah, by the looks of it, Mirasol is done for.

[Blazkowicz]

Originally Posted by zed

I'ld say a large part of this is due to the fact that theyre about the only common displays that the DPI has increased, desktop monitors DPI have been ~80-120DPI for a decade, thank god this is finally changing

that and IPS panels. the ipad, even models 1 and 2 would already significantly increase the average cost of all 7" to 10" panels made on earth

by the way I can see readily affordable PC monitors with IPS panels, right now.
an LG 21.5" at 129€ including taxes, and 23" for ten euros more. IPS is nothing new but such prices are. a couple of monthes ago I found interesting to see an IPS at 180€ for sale and now, are price crashing because something went wrong with the market?, or are they really much cheaper


I'm looking namely at the LG IPS235V-BN, 23" 1920x1080, it's stated for 35 watts. I find that's on the low side. the beast I'm staring is atembarassing, maybe over 200 watts. I picked up a 22" CRT in perfect working condition, for free so due to the random circumstances I'm still doing the hold-out thing!

[Arwin]

Disconcerting to hear that there are not just IPS, but also e-IPS displays, the later using fewer layers being cheap TN style 6bit instead of 8bit color per pixel.

I also came across the 0-100-0 figures, and IPS is not good here, so they're not for games, that's for sure:

http://nl.hardware.info/reviews/2832...d-en-input-lag

[Blazkowicz]

the zero input lags on most tested displays is a very good thing though.
as a matter of compromise it can be okay. no matter the response time I notice the 60Hz limit anyway. so I could say only the 120Hz panel are for games but I swore never to buy a TN ever.

[MfA]

LG was promising 120 Hz IPS at the start of the year ... didn't materialize though.

It's certainly possible to get true 120 Hz IPS with a scanning backlight, IPS with very aggressive overdrive can reach correct values in worst case 8 msec, and overdrive artifacts are mostly irrelevant with a scanning backlight (which at 120 Hz would not have visible flicker either, unlike with current 60 Hz monitors).

[Grall]

Originally Posted by Arwin

Disconcerting to hear that there are not just IPS, but also e-IPS displays, the later using fewer layers being cheap TN style 6bit instead of 8bit color per pixel.

6-bit e-IPS is nothing like TN, though. TN's issues are much more fundamental than just color depth resolution... These issues are not present (in the same disruptive form) in e-IPS.

That said though, there's coming a bunch of nice, cheap large-panel 27" IPS monitors now with QWHD resolution (2560*1xxx; probably 1440 rather than 1600), including a Dell Ultrasharp unit. I would think these monitors use "proper" 8-bit IPS, but I've not read any confirmation of that.

[Brad Grenz]

The Korean monitor people are importing use the same LG panels used in high end Dell and Apple displays reportedly, so not e-IPS. Dell just released a new AH-IPS display in Japan which is cheaper than their previous generation and supposedly has a faster response rate.

[mboeller]

Originally Posted by Brad Grenz

The Korean monitor people are importing use the same LG panels used in high end Dell and Apple displays reportedly, so not e-IPS. Dell just released a new AH-IPS display in Japan which is cheaper than their previous generation and supposedly has a faster response rate.

not only Japan:
http://accessories.ap.dell.com/sna/p...773&redirect=1

[Trunks0]

There are some 27" 2560x1440 IPS monitors coming out of Korea that are 120hz capable.

As for other Interesting display techs, OLED seems like it is right around the corner for HDTV's. I would hope that will also mean that we see PC monitors as soon as well.

[Grall]

OLED HDTVs will be monstrously more expensive than LCD panels when they arrive, and will be incredibly niche because of it for YEARS.

I'm also still very very cautious about OLED because of subpixel wear. Unless I get confirmation that they've solved that problem and that subpixels basically don't wear at all I'm never going to buy such a TV or computer display. Voluntarily anyway, they'll have to stop manufacturing the better, more long-lived alternatives to force me...

[MfA]

Originally Posted by Trunks0

There are some 27" 2560x1440 IPS monitors coming out of Korea that are 120hz capable.

Somehow I doubt they have good overdrive and a scanning backlight ... so it will streak far more than a tn 120 hz display, which can actually stabilize the pixels faster than 1/120 sec.

[Blazkowicz]

there are still benefits e.g. smoother than 60Hz, less tearing, more data shown so that you better notice that flying rocket but you're right.
the TN rage is mostly a big deal if you're watching movies at the PC (or need color accuracy, without color shifting because it varies so much with the angle)

note that you would need displayport 1.2