[green.pixel]

http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comme...ock_2_look_at/

Mods can also be downloaded here - http://www.systemshock.org/index.php?board=2.0

Someone who is playing for the frist time should use just one mod - SHTUP.

[homerdog]

Is it a good game? I did not like Bioshock very much.

[green.pixel]

Yes, one of the best FPS and the best game Irrational ever made . Bioshock was dumb-downed and focus-tested for the masses, they even admitted it. The burden of a $20M+ budget sure had a part in it.

[Davros]

homer why didnt you like bioshock, too simple or too complex
shock2 is pure awesomeness, but it does have its faults
weapon degradation sucks and its quite complex its also quite hard especially at the begining because being an rpg you start off being weak, have crap weapons, no skills and no equipment
I introduced a friend to the majesty of p.c gaming first with HL then with Deus Ex which became his favourite game.
So i lent him shock2 and when I checked back with him expecting a glowing review he only played it for a short while because he found it too hard.
If you find yourself in this situation cheat, give yourself some skills better weapons, health kits ect to get past the hard parts. This is preferable to giving up and missing out on one of the true classics.

[Murakami]

Originally Posted by green.pixel

http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comme...ock_2_look_at/

Mods can also be downloaded here - http://www.systemshock.org/index.php?board=2.0

Someone who is playing for the frist time should use just one mod - SHTUP.

Thanks for the great link: i hope it will play on my Win7 64 bit notebook

[homerdog]

Originally Posted by Davros

homer why didnt you like bioshock, too simple or too complex

I thought it was not much of an RPG and not a very good shooter, and had mediocre graphics.

[Davros]

Hmm, Shock2 is very much an rpg, the shootings ok, but its not going to match bioshock in the graphics department.

[green.pixel]

Spoiler-free newbie guide on how to get the best out of the first System Shock 2 play.

It includes a number of worthwhile tips and tricks that are usually unknown to first timers but make quite a difference in the game. It's a great idea to point people to this guide that you want to introduce to System Shock 2 (which is also a great idea).

Originally Posted by Davros

being an rpg

It's not. In order to be one, it would need to have the system of rules that would allow the player to influence the story in meaningful ways, i.e. his actions and choices would shape its direction and outcome. SS2 can be described as a "stat-heavy FPS" or an FPS with character development and progression. That and NPC interaction is what seperates DE and its 'Shock brethren. Over the years, I have come to the conclusion that for a very large number of people avatar stats-changing and levelling mechanics are all that's needed for a game to qualify as a role-playing one.

[Silent_Buddha]

Originally Posted by green.pixel

It's not. In order to be one, it would need to have the system of rules that would allow the player to influence the story in meaningful ways, i.e. his actions and choices would shape its direction and outcome. SS2 can be described as a "stat-heavy FPS" or an FPS with character development and progression. That and NPC interaction is what seperates DE and its 'Shock brethren. Over the years, I have come to the conclusion that for a very large number of people avatar stats-changing and levelling mechanics are all that's needed for a game to qualify as a role-playing one.

Wrong. Or at least wrong in the traditional PnP RPG and CRPG sense. Perhaps correct in the traditional console RPG sense. Which isn't to say that SS2 is an RPG in the traditional PnP or CRPG sense.

SS2 is more of an RPG than almost all RPGs currently on the market for PC now days. Although it is slightly more FPS than it is RPG, IMO.

Regards,
SB

[green.pixel]

Originally Posted by Silent_Buddha

SS2 is more of an RPG than almost all RPGs currently on the market for PC now days.

More of an RPG than Alpha Protocol, The Witcher 2 or New Vegas? I don’t think it is.

Here’s what Chris Avellone says - http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/ob...lone-interview

Eurogamer: Why do you think the RPG genre itself provokes such fierce discussion? I mean, you don't have a FPSCodex where people complain about John Carmack all the time.

Chris Avellone: There's a lot of discussion about what constitutes an RPG, as you said. And the defining game, for me... Well, it's System Shock 2. Let me explain: System Shock 2 was almost a role-playing game. Almost. They had the character stuff down, the skill stuff down, but you never really made a choice, in my opinion. The ending was set; your path was set. If, at one point, there was a moment where you could've made one decision that changed the ending, that would've made it a barebones role-playing game, and a good one.

Originally Posted by Silent_Buddha

the traditional PnP RPG and CRPG sense

Well, we need to have a reference point WRT to the use of the word RPG, don't you think? Meaning is use.

When you have games that play as differently as Diablo, Final Fantasy, Jagged Alliance and Deus Ex called xRPG’s then the term is misused.

SB, I would like to know what do you think about this articles:
http://insomnia.ac/commentary/on_role-playing_games/
http://insomnia.ac/commentary/the_rpg_conundrum/

They are about clarity and consistency of the term when used in a computer and console gaming context. The important point of his texts, I think, is that very few electronic games labeled as RPG are similar to their tabletop counterparts and that needs to change.

Also, here are some Gary Gygax's thoughts on the mattter. As far he's concerned, the dice-rolls were not something what RPGs should be about, but rather a form of interactive, collaborative storytelling.

The game was spreading beyond basements, particularly influencing the nascent computer-games industry. Mr Gygax didn't like that either; he thought computer graphics cheapened the experience by substituting an artist's imagination for the player's. And while computers were ideal for streamlining tedious dice rolls and arithmetic, those, for him, were never the point. He considered role-playing a social thing, a form of group storytelling

[Davros]

lets not do the what constitutes an rpg argument again

[swaaye]

I first played System Shock 2 just months before Bioshock game out. In fact, I used the SHTUP textures. Personally I wouldn't install anything else besides a renderer tweak to run 32-bit color and enable anisotropic filtering. I didn't like some of the model mods, for example. But the textures are great because you can actually read computer displays and wall decals and they stick to authenticity instead of fans reenvisioning stuff.

It's a great game. It's actually quite similar to Bioshock in a lot of ways, but it's hard sci-fi horror and I like this more than the fruity Bioshock stuff. And yes it has the RPG stat and inventory aspect. The stats mainly limit what skills you can attain on a single playthrough so they give it some replayability. If you can stand running through the same super linear experience a second time.

[green.pixel]

Originally Posted by Davros

lets not do the what constitutes an rpg argument again

Why not?

Originally Posted by swaaye

but it's hard sci-fi horror and I like this more than the fruity Bioshock stuff.

Same here.