[John Reynolds]

Originally Posted by Dresden

I'll never understand why people will be so quick to think pessimistically, even over the smallest amount of news with little to no information revealed. Yes, there are certain aspects of a TES MMO that worry me, the obvious ones like P2P and total discontinuation of the SP games, but personally, I've always been intrigued about the idea of a TES MMO, so I'm reserving my judgment until I've read things that are truly disheartening. A lot of the negative comments I've read around the web seem like they're coming from people who inherently aren't interested in MMO's as a genre. I on the other hand am. I do know, however, Game Informer will have a multi-page spread on TES:O in their upcoming issue.

Agreed. I'm skeptical but hopeful.

Originally Posted by ToTTenTranz

The ZeniMax Media group owns both publishers (like Bethesda Softworks) and studios (like Bethesda Games Studio and Zenimax Online Studios).
Skyrim was made by Bethesda Games Studios, and was published by Bethesda Softworks.
Elder Scrolls Online will be made by Zenimax Online Studios and published by Bethesda Softworks.
ZOS is, supposedly, a studio specialized in MMOs...

Ah, ok. I saw ZeniMax and assumed it was just the owners.

I keep seeing Matt Firor's name attached to this, did he work on DAoC?

Edit: Aged memory still somewhat functional. I'm a scosh more hopeful now, but still wanna learn more details from the article.

[I.S.T.]

ZeniMax was founded by Bethesda folks, I should mention.

[Grall]

Originally Posted by Dresden

I'll never understand why people will be so quick to think pessimistically, even over the smallest amount of news with little to no information revealed.

Maybe because no western MMO post-WoW has managed to catch on big. At best, the ones that have launched are merely coping, at worst, languishing/deteriorating (like WAR, Conan for example.)

I have no way of predicting the future of course, but building a MMO is a huge undertaking and building a successful one is far greater still. Maybe Bethy/Zenimax can pull it off, they're a big, experienced and financially strong corp, but odds are greatly against them here. Simple truth, really. After all, EA and Bioware are also very experienced, and their Starwars MMO isn't exactly performing above expectations. It's not doing badly from what I can tell (and alledgedly has even added some subbers since launch), but I don't think anyone's impressed in any way either.

[Silent_Buddha]

If this reintroduces ALL of the mechanics and character customizations that have ripped out of TES starting with Morrowind and accelerating through Oblivion and Skyrim until TES today is but an empty shell of what it was. Then and only then will the MMO will be glorious, IMO.

If it doesn't then it's doomed to failure, at least in my eyes.

I wouldn't mind if the single player TES remained the mindless and restricted system that it is now if they open up the MMO to the fantasy simulation that TES games used to be.

But somehow I doubt that will happen. It'll likely be even more dumbed down than Skyrim already is.

Regards,
SB

[hughJ]

Would have maybe been interesting to see a SWG-style architecture in a TES setting.

Procedurally generated terrain (at least partially) allowing for properly "massive" maps allowing for relatively flexible building permissions for player structures/houses in the environment and ultimately player built cities.
Player driven economy from the ground up.
Tiered skill build sheets for completely customized characters, and broad enough to allow strictly non-combat builds.

It always felt right to me somehow that when I chose a certain build, that I was giving up the ability to pursue certain endeavours in the game, and likewise someone else may not be able to go to places or do things that I was able to do. Different builds resulted in a fundamentally different experience, and not just having different colored skills on a launch bar with different character animations on screen, which is really what most MMOs amount to now.

Would be interesting to see a proper implementation of a 'thief' class in an MMO.

[Dresden]

Beta signups are officially underway:

http://signup.elderscrollsonline.com/

Also, a pretty impressive trailer was released, as well:

[Aeoniss]

Originally Posted by Silent_Buddha

If this reintroduces ALL of the mechanics and character customizations that have ripped out of TES starting with Morrowind and accelerating through Oblivion and Skyrim until TES today is but an empty shell of what it was. Then and only then will the MMO will be glorious, IMO.

If it doesn't then it's doomed to failure, at least in my eyes.

I wouldn't mind if the single player TES remained the mindless and restricted system that it is now if they open up the MMO to the fantasy simulation that TES games used to be.

But somehow I doubt that will happen. It'll likely be even more dumbed down than Skyrim already is.

Regards,
SB

You disliked Oblivion and Skyrim? I mean, granted the magic system in Skyrim was kind of borked.. But what all has been "ripped" out?

[swaaye]

Daggerfall and Arena were their own disaster zones of game play issues. Innovative though.

Hey maybe SB is actually referring to Redguard or Battlespire?

[Grall]

Just went through the entire signup procedure and was met with a "PAGE NOT FOUND TURN BACK ADVENTURER" error message upon submitting the form.

...So, fuck them.

[Silent_Buddha]

Originally Posted by swaaye

Daggerfall and Arena were their own disaster zones of game play issues. Innovative though.

Oh yes, they were definitely buggy. Definitely open to super powerful builds. But as long as you thought of it as a fantasy simulation, which is what it ultimately really was, then that just fit in. Play a down on your luck rogue from a race that was unsuited to that archetype and rail against the unfair and unjust life that was thrust upon you while you struggled to make it and struggle you would whether you wanted to or not. Play a superpowerful spell caster with an eye towards destroying the world, go for it.

But buggy, oh hell yeah buggy. And the procedural dungeon generation could leave a lot to be desired but I still liked it just for the fact that you wouldn't instantly think copy and paste dungeon when you went int.

Hey maybe SB is actually referring to Redguard or Battlespire?

Oh dear god no! I was able to virtually forget that those existed until you just reminded me.

Regards,

[Silent_Buddha]

Originally Posted by Aeoniss

You disliked Oblivion and Skyrim? I mean, granted the magic system in Skyrim was kind of borked.. But what all has been "ripped" out?

Too numerous to list. But off the top of my head. Less skills. Less ability to configure and specialize your character. Less weapon types. Less of a world. While more detailed, the world is absolutely tiny. At least that one I can understand. For the detail involved it would be impossible to handcraft the original world of Tamriel that existed in Daggerfall much less the entire world as it was represented in the original TES. Although hell, I'd love the original TES or even Daggerfalls mechanics combined with some kind of mix of procedurally generated world with targetted handcrafted areas. Imagine the modding potential of something like that to be able to later go in and drop in entire towns, cities, dungeons etc to fill out the world without even touching the existing hand crafted areas. You'd be able to drop in an entire Skyrim location which wouldn't be even 1% of the original TES gameworld.

Basically there is less of almost everything. And everything is more generalized and sterilized.

As a game it is arguably better (personally I don't think so, but meh). As a fantasy simulator, it is horribly horribly bad. Although compared to everything else out there, it's better than nothing, maybe?

Of course, if you come at it never having experienced the first two in the series, then I can see how it would be eye opening compared to what is currently available for RPG fans (mostly dumbed down action RPGs with limited scope). And, of course, jumping into it now, it'd be hard to appreciate. As while it had good/decent graphics for the time it was released, it's horribly horribly outdated in this day and age.

Oblivion and Skyrim obviously have wider consumer appeal. To attract more people you have to lower the bar of entry and start designing for the lowest common denominator. Hence why simulations aren't terribly popular. They require a degree of intelligence, imagination, and dedication in their users that most people (rightly so) don't wish to have to bother with in their games.

Taking TES and Daggerfall again as examples. With so many possibilities and options available combined with the absolutely no holds barred open gameplay required a healthy does of imagination on the users part to create their own adventures and stories. A nice dose of intelligence to put everything together (virtually no hand holding). And a fair bit of dedication to work with the rather rough combat mechanics.

Regards,
SB

[Grall]

I never played the two predecessors to TES III, but I spent many, many many hours running across morrowind; running and running, and running and running and running. And 99% of the time without seeing anything worth seeing, really. Most of the game world was huge, desolate stretches of nothing but smoothly undulating heightmap polygons and boulders, and in the more fertile areas, trees that all looked the same, and wildlife that all attacked on sight. If I never see another cliff racer in my life, it'll be one too many.

TBH, I'd rather have skyrim's smaller and much more detailed world, especially as skyrim isn't exactly small either. ...And I am probably not your average run of the mill game player either. I don't really understand the hubbub about character customization and the issues people have with it in oblivion and skyrim, the leveling system in morrowind pretty much sucked IMO. It was needlessly complicated and opaque. It was very easy to screw up your toon and ending up with a less powerful character as a result.

I don't believe that a system that is complex and complicated is inherently a good one. Morrowind's was overengineered, fragile and not particularly enjoyable. If you dinged right in the middle of a daedric ruin with nowhere to sleep, any further skillpoints you gained were wasted, and if you did not level enough different skills before leveling up you did not get as many stat points to invest as you could otherwise.

Morrowind's system was bad. It wasn't good, and losing it was not a loss.

[Gubbi]

Originally Posted by Grall

I never played the two predecessors to TES III, but I spent many, many many hours running across morrowind; running and running, and running and running and running. And 99% of the time without seeing anything worth seeing, really. Most of the game world was huge, desolate stretches of nothing but smoothly undulating heightmap polygons and boulders, and in the more fertile areas, trees that all looked the same, and wildlife that all attacked on sight. If I never see another cliff racer in my life, it'll be one too many.

Hear hear.

Originally Posted by Grall

TBH, I'd rather have skyrim's smaller and much more detailed world, especially as skyrim isn't exactly small either. ...And I am probably not your average run of the mill game player either. I don't really understand the hubbub about character customization and the issues people have with it in oblivion and skyrim, the leveling system in morrowind pretty much sucked IMO. It was needlessly complicated and opaque. It was very easy to screw up your toon and ending up with a less powerful character as a result.

So many obvious flaws carries over from one TES to the next. The broken ass stat/skill system from Morrowind carried over into Oblivion. As did the autoscaling enemies of the Morrowind expansions (although they didn't have insta-respawn in Oblivion).

The broken economy has carried over from every game. There is nothing to spend gold on, and merchants still only have chump change. The whole point of having an economy is to exchange loot you cannot use with items you can use.

Take a page from good old Baldur's Gate 2's Adventure Mart.

Cheers

[Dresden]

Originally Posted by Grall

Just went through the entire signup procedure and was met with a "PAGE NOT FOUND TURN BACK ADVENTURER" error message upon submitting the form.

...So, fuck them.

Strange. While I've read about people's issues with the signup page, I didn't have any problem registering. I'll play the devil's advocate and blame it on the influx of users trying to access the page.

I still play WoW, regularly. It's kind of like a boot knife I carry as a last resort. I've played every major MMO to date and every single one has been trounced by WoW in virtually every aspect possible. Pandaria is visually stunning and highly polished, considering the game's age. Technically, Guild Wars 2 had my attention, but this didn't last long. It became terribly boring. I'm definitely interested in TESO, but a few things worry me. For starters I read that zones are faction restricted. Meaning members of the opposing faction can't even enter these zones. Also, the idea of one giant "mega server" leaves me with more questions than answers.

[eastmen]

Im online at pax going to get to play it in a bit



Edit

Meh. Combat is wonky but graphics and skill system seem nice. Only had 15 mins with it

[Grall]

Give some more impressions, please. How does combat compare to traditional TES games, and also traditional MMOs? How does levelling work? Etc.

Grats on making it to PAX by the way. Say hi to Krahulik and Holkins for me, okay?

[eastmen]

Originally Posted by Grall

Give some more impressions, please. How does combat compare to traditional TES games, and also traditional MMOs? How does levelling work? Etc.

Grats on making it to PAX by the way. Say hi to Krahulik and Holkins for me, okay?

Who now ?


Sword combat plays just like skyrim. Its still way to floaty if you know what I mean. I dont feel like im hitting anything or anything is hitting me

Nagic works better than in skyrim. The attacks lock on and dont have to be aimed from the limitrd spells I got to use


For leveling up you get to select endurance health magic. Then you get to pick a skill in a catagory. Spells / swords and other greyed out stuff . Then they level as you use them and each level you get more spells.

Remeber I inky had a 15 min demo

[Malo]

You go to PAX and you don't know who Krahulik and Holkins is?

[eastmen]

Originally Posted by Malo

You go to PAX and you don't know who Krahulik and Holkins is?

I spend 90% of my time in the board game section