[wco81]

True Google itself isn't making a lot of money but Android represents a threat to Microsoft's business.

As mobile devices become more capable, more people will use them instead of PCs over time.

[french toast]

has anyone got any info whether windows 8 will support true multitasking? or will it be tombstone approach ala wp8?

someone mentioned it a page or so back because sharing the kernel.

[Mize]

iOS and OSX "share a kernel" but iOS doesn't have true multitasking and OSX does...so it's possible Windows 8 will and WP8/RT might not. I would certainly hope that's not the case...

[Miksu]

Originally Posted by french toast

has anyone got any info whether windows 8 will support true multitasking? or will it be tombstone approach ala wp8?.

Windows 8 app developer blog: Managing app lifecycle so your apps feel "always alive"

Using the new lifecycle events, your app will always feel alive, even though it never runs when it is off-screen.

[french toast]

"makes your apps feel alive!" I have to say that sounds like a no no to me...seriously full windows going backwards and not having multitasking??

Or is that just the rt ??

[BRiT]

That's only for METRO Apps.

[Jubei]

Originally Posted by Ike Turner

Android isn't really making much money actually (for Google or any other OEM besides Samsung)... Microsoft is also already making a small buck on it thanks to all the patentlicensing d"eals" with all the Android ODMs/OEMs (other than Moto)..

Probably because you are looking at it from a traditional perspective. Android software sales and licensing Google apps doesnt make them a lot of money. But that has never been their goal, they made 2.5 billion last year from mobile ad revenues, they are projected to make 4 billion this year. Even if iOS is a huge chunk of that, Android is still pulling in a lot of money for Google. Just not in the traditional "money for licensing your OS" kind of way

[silent_guy]

Originally Posted by Jubei

Even if iOS is a huge chunk of that, Android is still pulling in a lot of money for Google. Just not in the traditional "money for licensing your OS" kind of way

http://www.asymco.com/2012/05/16/and...ion-to-google/
http://www.asymco.com/2012/04/02/android-economics/
In terms of net income, Android close to a rounding error for Google. (Exaggerating just a little bit here. )

[Jubei]

Originally Posted by silent_guy

http://www.asymco.com/2012/05/16/and...ion-to-google/
http://www.asymco.com/2012/04/02/android-economics/
In terms of net income, Android close to a rounding error for Google. (Exaggerating just a little bit here. )

http://marketingland.com/no-google-d...s-android-9017

[dagamer]

Originally Posted by french toast

has anyone got any info whether windows 8 will support true multitasking? or will it be tombstone approach ala wp8?

someone mentioned it a page or so back because sharing the kernel.

I watched the keynote. "True" multi-tasking is supported, apps can run in the background like they can in Windows 8 (need to use special APIs, but it's possible). The examples they showed were Skype and GPS navigation.

[silent_guy]

Originally Posted by Jubei

http://marketingland.com/no-google-d...s-android-9017

I'm not talking iPhone and neither is Asymco in these articles. I'm also not talking revenue.

[french toast]

Yea I saw the keynote, but I also saw the other link where they described tombstoning.

I don't consider running skype or mapping in the background as proper multitasking, I mean proper multitasking by being to able fire multiple apps and switch between fully live aps in real time, no restarting the app or stopping it or anything.

[dlm]

Originally Posted by french toast

Yea I saw the keynote, but I also saw the other link where they described tombstoning.

I don't consider running skype or mapping in the background as proper multitasking, I mean proper multitasking by being to able fire multiple apps and switch between fully live aps in real time, no restarting the app or stopping it or anything.

Not supporting what you want appears (based on statements I've seen) to be an intentional decision to maximize resources available to a given app along with battery life.

Remember that any time someone downloads an app that drains the battery in the background, as far as most users are concerned, the problem is that "the phone gets crummy battery life." This is a perception that MS and Apple both clearly want to avoid. Android gives you all the rope you need to hang yourself. I don't think that either of these approaches are fundamentally wrong, but one or the other (or both) may not be what you personally want.

[french toast]

Well put, however can you confirm (as I had not used wp7 for a period of time) whether you would be able to download something in the background whilst running another app?

Not having 10 apps all running in the background I can deal with, indeed some android devices including my galaxy s3 already do some of this,8 but there will be certain scenarios where you will want to multitask...perhaps the small changes to the tombstoning idea was to rectify the main things people would want running in the background...

[bdmosky]

Apps you download from the marketplace can be downloaded while doing other things. The capability is already there, it's just when they choose to expose it.

[Grall]

Originally Posted by french toast

I mean proper multitasking by being to able fire multiple apps and switch between fully live aps in real time, no restarting the app or stopping it or anything.

When do you actually need to DO that on a phone though? You can't view or interact with more than one app at a time anyway on those tiny screens. Also, having many apps running is a great way to simply run down your battery. Phones get good standby time because most of the time they don't actually DO anything. If the CPU's constantly working the battery can be sucked dry in a couple hours.

Is this really a problem? The kind of multitasking - call it fake if you will - you get in iOS, it really is enough for a phone. If you're a power user who wants to "power use" your phone - well, you're just using the wrong tool for the job then. Get a portable computer instead.

[dlm]

Originally Posted by french toast

Well put, however can you confirm (as I had not used wp7 for a period of time) whether you would be able to download something in the background whilst running another app?

Sorry, I realized I was unclear in my post. What I meant is that if an app that a user downloads happens to drain the battery while it's running in the background (eg. poorly designed, CPU-hungry app), they will blame the phone. My wording was a bit unclear and implied that I was talking about the actual download of the app.

Yes, WP7 can download in the background. The OS itself can run any of its own functions (alerts, downloads, music, etc) in the background. Marketplace apps are simply not allowed to do so.

Even as far as the tombstoning process goes though, how good of an experience you have dealing with app switching is much more a function of the app than the phone. Yes, the app has to be designed to save and load state properly and not all apps are, but most apps these days do a pretty good job.

[french toast]

Originally Posted by Grall

When do you actually need to DO that on a phone though? You can't view or interact with more than one app at a time anyway on those tiny screens. Also, having many apps running is a great way to simply run down your battery. Phones get good standby time because most of the time they don't actually DO anything. If the CPU's constantly working the battery can be sucked dry in a couple hours.

Is this really a problem? The kind of multitasking - call it fake if you will - you get in iOS, it really is enough for a phone. If you're a power user who wants to "power use" your phone - well, you're just using the wrong tool for the job then. Get a portable computer instead.

I see where you are coming from, but phones really are not phones anymore are they? 90% of your time on the device sure is not ringing people unless you use it for business.

Phones are really personal computers in your pocket, admittedly there are different wants and needs for everyone and people have different interpretations of what form it takes, iphone is one way, android is the complete opposite end of the spectrum, blackberry is for security and business. What I'm looking for wp8 to be is something smack bang in the middle, something for everyone...

Im the kind of user who docks his phone into a tv setup and powers everything from there, games,movies, 46 inch hd internet the lot...then pick it up and go.
Certainly an iphone then for me is a complete waste of time, blackberry is not really a media control device and lacks apps, wp7 is far too limited in what you can do and what you can download..although it's the most innovative, slick and resource friendly device out there...which I like.

In that setup I have mentioned some multitasking is appreciated, as at times you are using it almost as a notebook replacement.
I want the ability to switch between Apps on the go with out restarting the app all over again, I'm not sure how wp7 achieves this so I'm with holding judgement, but certainly wp8 seems to have made a better stab at it than apple.

So without wp8 I decided to pump for an android device..and went for the daddy out there.. galaxy s3....I'm very happy worth my decision as it is a major improvement in slickness, presentation and stability over previous androids.

But some things are really really annoying..it's a resource hog, seriously phantom processes running in the background you have no idea what they do and can't be stopped, data collecting apps, it is still not stutter proof despite a quad core processor and 1 gig of ram.

Upgrades and fragmentation..seriously this will finish off android if Google does not get some balls like apple and Microsoft and take control of it's operating system.
having the most powerfull phone on the world and not being able to run all of the best games is really annoying.

Worse than that is the upgrade process which has turned into a farce of the highest degree, using heavy ui overlays to slow down the upgrade process and try to force consumers into buying a new phone, only 8% odd androids run ics ...some 7 months after its introduction, with jellybean on the horizon that is just going to make the problem worse.

And ethos I s where my annoyance come in, £500 smartphone..outdated in a few months software wise with another long long wait and broken promises till I can hope to get am upgrade...even then it will arrive with last year's touch whizz...disgrace.

So far wp8 looks to be a game changer, it looks like everything I want in a phone, as long as it allows me to dock it to a tv, play all sorts of videos and games as well as switch seamlessly from one app to another..without restarting said apps.

[french toast]

Basically if wp8 tries to completely force me into only using the device in my hand and not connect other to and do all sorts of things then I will stick with android as the faults are slowly getting ironed out.

Oems are stating to help get confers there phones unlocked..ideally we would want the phones to arrive completely unlocked from the get go with a description of what every system app does on the background...so other can be deleted, including the ui over skins and data collection apps.

Google needs to force manufacturers to upgrade all their phones to a new operating system within 6 weeks of release...sans skinning if necessary, and stop soc manufacturers developing specialized games for their chips..creating more fragmentation layers.

If that happens I will stick with android, although the software on wp8 will tear an ios or an android a new one.

[Grall]

Originally Posted by french toast

I see where you are coming from, but phones really are not phones anymore are they? 90% of your time on the device sure is not ringing people unless you use it for business.

Yes, but if you're surfing the web on a browser you're not reading your emails or typing notes or checking your calendar, if you start a game you're not browsing anymore, if you switch into camera mode to shoot a movie you're not gaming anymore, so the game doesn't need to be running either and so on. For much of these activities you can have a music player or VOIP app running though.

Fake multitasking, or whatever you wanna call it, really IS sufficient for a phone. If you can't see the app or interact with it, what's the point of having it running? An email reader for example is gonna hook into the OS so it'll poll for new mail regularly if you set it up for that even if it's not actively running, but that's all it needs to do. There's no need for the email reader to actually be RUNNING if you're not actively using it at that exact moment...

[french toast]

Yea I do buy along along with that concept...as long as it works as advertised....but I have doubts.

Its supposed to be more efficient....how come then lumia 900 gets poor batterylife compared to a HTC one x??..despite the later belong far far more powerfull, twice The ram, massive hd screen and same size battery?

According to gsm arena...the lumia 900 gets 29hrs in their endurance test.
http://m.gsmarena.com/nokia_lumia_90...view-748p2.php

Where as the Hox gets 37 hours...
http://blog.gsmarena.com/htc-one-x-b...ts-are-inside/

Similar results can be with other wp7 handsets.decent but not anywhere near class leading despite the so called multitasking efficiency..

Edit. The gsmarena endurance test on the iphone 4s...which runs a smaller screen albeit a higher resolution and much more powerfull processing ..gets a whopping 45hours on a tiny 1450 mha battery...so it seems the concept has some merit although I heat the feeling most of the power usage is down to the display..which at 3.5inches is not going to really suck juice like a 4.7inch one.

So how come ios is so much more efficient than wp7? Can't all be down to the display...

[Mize]

Grall,

I like to run Trapster (compliments my radar detector nicely) and a turn-by-turn navigation *and* still make and receive calls whilst driving. There's also serving DLNA content and/or playing a movie over HDMI whilst still being able to do email/phone calls, etc.

[Jubei]

Originally Posted by french toast

So how come ios is so much more efficient than wp7? Can't all be down to the display...

I think its just a more efficient OS. My old iPhone 4 is still fairly smooth running on an 800 mHz Cortex A8. Most WP7 are running at almost twice that frequency on a 2nd generation Snapdragon

And even then WP7 cant handle VOIP in the background. Skype app is essentially useless because it doesnt run in the background

[Mize]

Originally Posted by Jubei

I think its just a more efficient OS. My old iPhone 4 is still fairly smooth running on an 800 mHz Cortex A8. Most WP7 are running at almost twice that frequency on a 2nd generation Snapdragon

And even then WP7 cant handle VOIP in the background. Skype app is essentially useless because it doesnt run in the background

I can run Skype with video and background it to surf/email/etc. on iPhone 4S, Pre3 and SGS3. I can't imagine MS would leave this capability out of WP. Hell they own Skype.

[babybumb]

Originally Posted by french toast

Yea I do buy along along with that concept...as long as it works as advertised....but I have doubts.

Its supposed to be more efficient....how come then lumia 900 gets poor batterylife compared to a HTC one x??..despite the later belong far far more powerfull, twice The ram, massive hd screen and same size battery?

According to gsm arena...the lumia 900 gets 29hrs in their endurance test.
http://m.gsmarena.com/nokia_lumia_90...view-748p2.php

Where as the Hox gets 37 hours...
http://blog.gsmarena.com/htc-one-x-b...ts-are-inside/

Similar results can be with other wp7 handsets.decent but not anywhere near class leading despite the so called multitasking efficiency..

Edit. The gsmarena endurance test on the iphone 4s...which runs a smaller screen albeit a higher resolution and much more powerfull processing ..gets a whopping 45hours on a tiny 1450 mha battery...so it seems the concept has some merit although I heat the feeling most of the power usage is down to the display..which at 3.5inches is not going to really suck juice like a 4.7inch one.

So how come ios is so much more efficient than wp7? Can't all be down to the display...

That Lumia AT&T has separate LTE chip. Of course the Qualcom SOC overall design is from 2010. Check out Android LTE phone batteries. Also Amoled uses much more battery on web browsing vs IPS LCD on HTC/iPhone