[joker454]

Originally Posted by Andrew Lauritzen

And this is a newer CPU with a lower TDP, so I expect it to be quite decent.

Yeah I think they will be ok. The Mac Air i use now with Win7 64 gets about 5 hours of real world use which isn't bad, and that's with a more power hungry i5 and larger screen to power. iPads get more battery life but they also do much less, I always had to keep a laptop around and switch to that because the iPad was inevitably not enough. Price wise ultrabooks are supposed to be hitting the $799 range this year, so I figure the Surface Pro can't be priced far above that. I'll buy if they are $1000 or less. Since they replace three of my other devices that still makes it a good deal to me, as I can sell those other 3 devices to fund a single Surface Pro and still pocket some change.

Now I'm hoping many of those awesome pc point and click adventure games get re-released on the Win8 app store with mouse and touch support, that way I can play them anywhere on any device. Good times

[Arwin]

Looked at the presentation for a bit, and must say, it looks pretty good. They did a pretty good job. I skipped any part where Ballmer is talking though, as I really can't stand to watch him (never mind listening).

[(((interference)))]

When is the Pro expected to launch?

And there seem to be screws under the kickplate at the back. Hopefully that means the battery is replaceable unlike the iPad (where Apple just sends you a new iPad for $99 if your battery is getting old)



Digital Foundry has a good write up on what we can expect from it performance wise:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/df...-spec-analysis

I hope it has a decent amount (>2GB) of RAM though, so it can actually function as a laptop replacement.

[Ike Turner]

Originally Posted by (((interference)))

When is the Pro expected to launch?

And there seem to be screws under the kickplate at the back. Hopefully that means the battery is replaceable unlike the iPad (where Apple just sends you a new iPad for $99 if your battery is getting old)



Digital Foundry has a good write up on what we can expect from it performance wise:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/df...-spec-analysis

I hope it has a decent amount (>2GB) of RAM though, so it can actually function as a laptop replacement.

It will most probably have 4Gb of ram like all recent SB/IB based slates (Samsung Sate 7/Acer ICONIA W700 etc..)

[RudeCurve]

Does the Pro model come with a bigger screen? Or is it the same size as the RT? If it's the same size then it's more of a netbook replacement than a laptop replacement... It'll be interesting to see if other companies will offer Win8 Ultrabooks with touchscreens.

[Squilliam]

One thing I want to add is that it has a scratch resistant coating and guerrilla glass 2.0. It won't be easy to break the thing unless you're really looking to do some damage. Personally the Pro version looks extremely good, dual core Ivy Bridge ought to drive a pretty fantastic user experience.

[rpg.314]

Originally Posted by joker454

Yeah I think they will be ok. The Mac Air i use now with Win7 64 gets about 5 hours of real world use which isn't bad, and that's with a more power hungry i5 and larger screen to power. iPads get more battery life but they also do much less, I always had to keep a laptop around and switch to that because the iPad was inevitably not enough. Price wise ultrabooks are supposed to be hitting the $799 range this year, so I figure the Surface Pro can't be priced far above that. I'll buy if they are $1000 or less. Since they replace three of my other devices that still makes it a good deal to me, as I can sell those other 3 devices to fund a single Surface Pro and still pocket some change.

Now I'm hoping many of those awesome pc point and click adventure games get re-released on the Win8 app store with mouse and touch support, that way I can play them anywhere on any device. Good times

IMHO, you are being too optimistic about it's keyboard. I don't think it will work if you are not on a proper desk. From what I can gather from the pics, it would be difficult to type if you keep it on your lap, sitting on the couch, sitting in the bed, working in the airport....

[DavidC]

Originally Posted by joker454

Price wise ultrabooks are supposed to be hitting the $799 range this year, so I figure the Surface Pro can't be priced far above that.

There's already a few you can buy that costs $699 using Sandy Bridge generation Core i3.

But I doubt Tablet form factor can go much below $899. The non-Clamshell devices are aimed at high-end, starting at same ~$1000 as last year's clamshell Ultrabook models.

[(((interference)))]

Originally Posted by Ike Turner

It will most probably have 4Gb of ram like all recent SB/IB based slates (Samsung Sate 7/Acer ICONIA W700 etc..)

Really? That's good then, I didn't realise that tablets already had that much RAM, figured they'd be around 1GB like the iPad

Originally Posted by RudeCurve

Does the Pro model come with a bigger screen? Or is it the same size as the RT? If it's the same size then it's more of a netbook replacement than a laptop replacement... It'll be interesting to see if other companies will offer Win8 Ultrabooks with touchscreens.

The screen is the same 10.6" one, but the resolution is 1080p which is the important thing (if you have good eyesight) - that's higher than my current 15" laptop which is only 1440x900. So the screen should be able to function just as well.

Originally Posted by rpg.314

IMHO, you are being too optimistic about it's keyboard. I don't think it will work if you are not on a proper desk. From what I can gather from the pics, it would be difficult to type if you keep it on your lap, sitting on the couch, sitting in the bed, working in the airport....

Well, if you're not at a desk, you'll have the cover flipped to the back and just use it like a regular tablet. Don't forget, you'll need somewhere to deploy the kickstand as well as needing a stable surface for the cover to rest on.

However since it has proper pen input (matched with Microsoft's excellent handwriting recognition) text entry shouldn't be too difficult when using it as a tablet.

My main usability concern is the weight of the Pro, 900 grams might be a bit too much - the iPad isn't exactly what I'd call light at 600 grams.

[joker454]

Originally Posted by rpg.314

IMHO, you are being too optimistic about it's keyboard. I don't think it will work if you are not on a proper desk. From what I can gather from the pics, it would be difficult to type if you keep it on your lap, sitting on the couch, sitting in the bed, working in the airport....

Possible...I'll be finding out. But it should work fine on the plane and in the hotel. In the airport itself I could just use the tablet keyboard, I've done that before via phone to deal with last minute emails, so tablet screen keyboard would be even easier. If I was desparate for keyboard then there are airport lounges that can be used at most major airports. In bed I'd always use it in tablet mode anyways, just more convenient. Either way it's great to have that choice. As good as an ultarbook may be, it's not as good if it's battery is dead and sometimes even an ultrabook is a bit big. Try eating your meal on a plane while using an ultrabook, can't be done I'd have to put my Mac Air away while my wife would keep on using her iPad.

Originally Posted by DavidC

There's already a few you can buy that costs $699 using Sandy Bridge generation Core i3.

But I doubt Tablet form factor can go much below $899. The non-Clamshell devices are aimed at high-end, starting at same ~$1000 as last year's clamshell Ultrabook models.

I find some of them really sacrifice screen quality. It's why I use a Mac Air even though I use it 99.9% of the time as a Win7 machine. I just found other ultrabooks at the time were lacking in some way, especially the screen, hence why I went with a Mac Air. It cost more but it's screen was much nicer. I'm ok with $899 for a Surface Pro though, but I don't think they can go past $999, seems like psycologically that would just look bad.

[elroy]

I think Microsoft has done a great job with these. I'm really interested in the Pro, but the question is, how will it compare to other hybrid Ultrabooks that will be released with Win8, such as the Samsung Series 5 or Asus Transformer Book? A similar form factor to the Surface with larger screen is fairly appealing.

Also, what is that 5 "pin" connector on the right hand side of the Surface?

[BadTB25]

Hopefully the other manufacturers will step up their game to offer up something better and cheaper. I like what I see, but could go for a different Win 8 tablet if the price and performance is right.

The keyboard idea is genius if it works as advertised. I noticed that they noted that the "Touch keyboard" is mult-touch. I wonder if you can use it as a giant mouse/scratch bad instead of using touch on the tablet screen itself since it has the same dimensions as the actual screen.

[AzBat]

I was really impressed with the RT version. Though I had wished the 7" Xbox Surface/Kindle Fire competitor rumor was real. Anyway, I've been Windows-less on my personal machine for a 1.5yrs now & don't think I could go back to a pure Wintel machine. Windows don't have desktop apps that appeal to me anymore. I can get all the apps I need or want with the web or Linux. Anyway, I also hate having to run anti-virus & spyware protection. So I'm more likely to like the ARM version with just Metro app support. The thinner/lighter tablet appeals more to me anyway. I just hope it's easier on the battery & last a little longer than the Pro version. The only problem is price. Any more than $500 for the 32gb model & I will have to pass until the 2nd gen models get released.

Tommy McClain

[wco81]

Pricing will be interesting as well the final specs.

If conventional ultra books in the same price range had better specs would buyers pay more for the tablet and keyboard cover?

[eastmen]

Originally Posted by elroy

I think Microsoft has done a great job with these. I'm really interested in the Pro, but the question is, how will it compare to other hybrid Ultrabooks that will be released with Win8, such as the Samsung Series 5 or Asus Transformer Book? A similar form factor to the Surface with larger screen is fairly appealing.

Also, what is that 5 "pin" connector on the right hand side of the Surface?

The pen connector ?

Or MS's magsafe competitior ?

http://www.theverge.com/2012/6/19/30...tor/in/2859835

[eastmen]

Originally Posted by wco81

Pricing will be interesting as well the final specs.

If conventional ultra books in the same price range had better specs would buyers pay more for the tablet and keyboard cover?

MS said 90 days after window's 8 launch date . So assume mid oct for windows 8 that puts the pro verison at the middle of january.

March - June time frame is for intel haswell . So i bet this will be the first tablet to have haswell while everything at windows 8 launch has ivy bridge or trinity.

That could be a very big reason to go with this tablet. It also seems like the design is beyond anything else i've seen from computex in terms of tablets.

[DavidC]

Originally Posted by eastmen

March - June time frame is for intel haswell . So i bet this will be the first tablet to have haswell while everything at windows 8 launch has ivy bridge or trinity.

That's impossible. The ULV Haswell chips are launching in Q3. January means manufacturers will launch Haswell devices(to ship in Summer) while Microsoft will launch their Ivy Bridge based Surface.

[Mize]

Interesting how definitive people can be about this thing without specs, pricing or even a decent preview. For all we know that flexi keyboard is terrible, battery is short and it BSODs every seventeen minutes.

Any hard data on when they'll release specs and review units?

[joker454]

Originally Posted by Mize

Interesting how definitive people can be about this thing without specs, pricing or even a decent preview. For all we know that flexi keyboard is terrible, battery is short and it BSODs every seventeen minutes.

It's pretty easy. Like I had mentioned I can sell three other devices to get this, so this device will save me money even if it's priced at $1000. I'm not worried about bsod's, I haven't had one in years and we have many windows 7/8/Server pc's in our house. My Mac Air has decent battery life, and the Surface Pro uses less power hungry components so I'm not too worried about it's battery life. A dual core i5 is plenty of power for what I need for a mobile device. If the keyboard is terrible it's still an option, I can always type on the tablet screen or plug in a usb keyboard while at a hotel, and the tablet is still to me infinitely more useable than any other out there as it has a full os on it hence I can run all my existing apps. Plus I'm thinking of making metro versions of all my websites, and this will be the test mule for that replacing my desktop Win8 test mule. It saves me some space in my office as a bonus, and makes my office quieter by replacing the desktop test Win8 test mule. So it's kind of a no brainer to me, unless it catches on fire or causes abortions in a 70 foot radius everytime it's turned on. Really to me it's basically an smaller ultrabook with optional keyboard. It will be great for travel, and unlike all other tablets out there I can actually run my business on this one.

[wco81]

Originally Posted by joker454

It's pretty easy. Like I had mentioned I can sell three other devices to get this, so this device will save me money even if it's priced at $1000. I'm not worried about bsod's, I haven't had one in years and we have many windows 7/8/Server pc's in our house. My Mac Air has decent battery life, and the Surface Pro uses less power hungry components so I'm not too worried about it's battery life. A dual core i5 is plenty of power for what I need for a mobile device. If the keyboard is terrible it's still an option, I can always type on the tablet screen or plug in a usb keyboard while at a hotel, and the tablet is still to me infinitely more useable than any other out there as it has a full os on it hence I can run all my existing apps. Plus I'm thinking of making metro versions of all my websites, and this will be the test mule for that replacing my desktop Win8 test mule. It saves me some space in my office as a bonus, and makes my office quieter by replacing the desktop test Win8 test mule. So it's kind of a no brainer to me, unless it catches on fire or causes abortions in a 70 foot radius everytime it's turned on. Really to me it's basically an smaller ultrabook with optional keyboard. It will be great for travel, and unlike all other tablets out there I can actually run my business on this one.

Either you're representative of the old Tablet PC market (one device as both laptop and tablet) or perhaps a new laptop replacement market where people go for Windows tablets instead of laptops.

This could be a big market but OTOH, around the $1000 price range, it's mostly businesses which buy PCs or devices, isn't it?

[Mize]

In all seriousness, if I could replace my tablet(s) and my laptop with something like this I would really consider it. My concerns are many though:

1. How does the keyboard work on a lap? I spend a lot of time typing in airports where my "status" airlines don't have lounges and that means my lap is my "surface." Seems the Asus Transformer route is a better implementation for this scenario.

2. How does the keyboard feel period.

3. Is 10.6" really enough for a work laptop? I've had an 11" laptop before (Fujitsu) and it was too small. I think 13.3" is about the minimum for doing real work (not just email type stuff, but excel, drawings, powerpoint).

4. Other OSes. I know, it's the geek again, but I like to have a linux partition (or at the very least a fast VM) so I can boot into linux for IT things...PuTTY is okay, but just ok.

I think this thing has the potential to be great - OR - it could hit directly in a null between the consumer and business markets and be a complete dud.

[dlm]

Originally Posted by Mize

1. How does the keyboard work on a lap? I spend a lot of time typing in airports where my "status" airlines don't have lounges and that means my lap is my "surface." Seems the Asus Transformer route is a better implementation for this scenario.

The first company to release a piece of plastic that holds your Surface up while providing a thin but flat surface for the keyboard cover to lie on is going to be rich. It probably costs $.40 to manufacture and they'll be selling them at $25 a pop.

The only thing separating that from the Transformer is that the rigid piece that's not always connected to the device is a cheap piece of plastic that you can cheaply and easily replace when you leave it on the plane.

[Arwin]

Originally Posted by Mize

In all seriousness, if I could replace my tablet(s) and my laptop with something like this I would really consider it. My concerns are many though:

1. How does the keyboard work on a lap? I spend a lot of time typing in airports where my "status" airlines don't have lounges and that means my lap is my "surface." Seems the Asus Transformer route is a better implementation for this scenario.

They also have a 'hard' version, that's more like a laptop keyboard, but still really slim.

2. How does the keyboard feel period.

In your case, I'd go for the hard one, which would feel much like a laptop I reckon.

3. Is 10.6" really enough for a work laptop? I've had an 11" laptop before (Fujitsu) and it was too small. I think 13.3" is about the minimum for doing real work (not just email type stuff, but excel, drawings, powerpoint).

It's small but you'd get this one for portability, so that's a trade-off. Of course, having a separate keyboard saves you from sacrificing that little space to an on-screen keyboard. On the other hand, when you are typing do you really need to see more than just some text?

4. Other OSes. I know, it's the geek again, but I like to have a linux partition (or at the very least a fast VM) so I can boot into linux for IT things...PuTTY is okay, but just ok.

Would surprise me if that works, and if you'd want to sacrifice flash drive space for that.

I think this thing has the potential to be great - OR - it could hit directly in a null between the consumer and business markets and be a complete dud.

If it runs most Win8 stuff, it will likely find a market. How big remains to be seen, but the potential is significant. The risk is also the reward - many applications may not be as well designed for this Win8 tablet combo, but software you develop for this platform runs on most office PCs as well. There's a big advantage to businesses if this works.

[sebbbi]

Originally Posted by Laurent06

Yes especially in battery life. Hmm wait...

iPad has bigger battery (42.5Wh) compared to 11" Macbook Air (35Wh). I have no problems with Macbook Air's battery life. Thus Intel's recent (Sandy Bridge) CPUs already work fine with small batteries, and the battery life will only improve with Ivy Bridge. This is especially true if Ivy Bridge's configurable TDP is used. When a lower 13W configurable TDP is used, Ivy is still comparable to older 17W Sandy Bridge laptops in performance (Anandtech benchmarks).

The only thing I dislike in x86 Microsoft Surface is the weight. It's weights 43 grams more than the (last year's) Samsung Series 7 Slate, and has similar specs... Except the older Sandy Bridge CPU is of course replaced with the more recent Ivy Bridge (but that should help with the power consumption and thus reduce the device size instead of increase it). They keyboard "smart cover" is a nice new innovation, but I am not 100% confident it, or the fatter "type cover" will offer comparable productivity to the Samsung's excellent chicklet keyboard (that is 1:1 carbon copy of Apple's small form factor keyboards). Competition is of course always a good thing, but I will personally wait to see what other manufacturers have in their sleeves for Win8 launch.

It's entirely possible that Samsung can shave 60+ grams of their design, and thus have a 100+ gram lighter Ivy Bridge based competitor with identical specs. Just look what they have achieved with Galaxy S III (133g, 8.6mm). It has almost twice the display area of iPhone 4S (140g, 9.3mm) but weights less and is thinner. Surface is an excellent first try from Microsoft, but I am not yet convinced it will be the best Win8 tablet during the launch period.

[french toast]

Very true, but whether it's the best or not its look extremely good as it is and let's be honest it bodes well for the future.