[Xenus]

Originally Posted by ERP

The big issue with OS development in Japan, is that there are no "real" OS' built in Japan, as a result you have to hire engineers with little to no OS development experience. Same goes for the people managing them.
There was a huge leap in what constituted OS' in consoles between PS2 and PS3, pre XBox console OS' were much closer to very simple RTOS' than what most would consider a fully functional OS.

If you want to hire experienced OS developers, you locate your development in the Bay Area or in the Greater Seattle area.

Indeed previous consoles OS's weren't much beyond dvd player firmware to get you where you wanted to go and provide an interface off of which to access the hardware for games. The last gen brought an explosion in resources for the OS and what they can do.

[tuna]

Originally Posted by ERP

The big issue with OS development in Japan, is that there are no "real" OS' built in Japan, as a result you have to hire engineers with little to no OS development experience. Same goes for the people managing them.
There was a huge leap in what constituted OS' in consoles between PS2 and PS3, pre XBox console OS' were much closer to very simple RTOS' than what most would consider a fully functional OS.

If you want to hire experienced OS developers, you locate your development in the Bay Area or in the Greater Seattle area.

While I am to lazy to look up the numbers right now, there are a lot of jap engineers involved with the kernel Linux. Probably other are involved with the BSD systems.

[jonabbey]

Japan has the TRON project: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRON_Project

Edit: Sorry patsu, missed your post.

[ERP]

Originally Posted by tuna

While I am to lazy to look up the numbers right now, there are a lot of jap engineers involved with the kernel Linux. Probably other are involved with the BSD systems.

The linux pool exists world wide and is distributed as such, in SF you have Apple engineers to pull from, in Redmond you have MS engineers.

The other issue I've found hiring the significant open source contributors, is that they come with a lot of baggage, they tend to have very idealistic viewpoints that don't necessarily align with corporate culture.

[patsu]

Yes, I think the Linux foundation is a great start. These people move quickly since they don't have the baggage to support a consumer product. However Sony will still need their own talent pool to customize it accordingly. I know with OtherOS, Sony has a EU team to oversee PS3 Linux. I also like their custom LightPeak work, and their cooperation with IBM. Basically they should find their own ways to piece together a strong team, including their core engineers from Japan and elsewhere.

EDIT:
I suspect companies are already tapping on talents from all over the world. The issue is how to use and manage them. e.g., For PS Mobile, while the SDK is led by Tokyo, the Mono VM is an open source project. Lead is an American or European ? I didn't check.

[jonabbey]

Originally Posted by ERP

The other issue I've found hiring the significant open source contributors, is that they come with a lot of baggage, they tend to have very idealistic viewpoints that don't necessarily align with corporate culture.

This raises more questions than it answers.

[tuna]

Originally Posted by ERP

The linux pool exists world wide and is distributed as such, in SF you have Apple engineers to pull from, in Redmond you have MS engineers.

The other issue I've found hiring the significant open source contributors, is that they come with a lot of baggage, they tend to have very idealistic viewpoints that don't necessarily align with corporate culture.

You do not think the MS and Apple engineers have viewpoints that do not align with Sony's corporate culture? And you should know that operating system kernels are being produced by a lot more companies than Apple and MS.

And to be really frank, I do not think the kernel is the problem for Sony. Their problem is integrating and having a shared vision.

[ERP]

I don't think I mentioned Sony's corporate culture specifically.
Big companies are big companies, they all have their issues, sometimes it's just how the weaknesses/strengths align against the product they are trying to deliver, often their weaknesses today are what made them successful in the past.

FWIW I agree that user experience is much more important than any underlying technology but shared vision and the kernel development are orthogonal issues.

[patsu]

I understand what ERP is saying, but there are also open source folks who are not so idealistic. ^_^

Originally Posted by tuna

And to be really frank, I do not think the kernel is the problem for Sony. Their problem is integrating and having a shared vision.

Yes, there are stubborn people in Google, MS and Apple also.

And yes, management is key to integrating and sustaining these people's contribution.

EDIT: Forgot to say I also like Sony's "overlapped mini-app" support in Android 4.0. Only saw it in action on YouTube video. Will check them out someday.

[Shifty Geezer]

Sony launch SEN content website.
https://store.sonyentertainmentnetwork.com/#!/

[Arwin]

It's up on-and-off, apparently. But it suggests it should be here officially soon. Should give you everything you can get through the PSN stores on the PS3 and Vita, but on PC through a web interface.

[tuna]

Anyone have any idea why Sony's relationship with the japanese publishers seem to be bad? For example, Capcom has not produced any Monster Hunter Portable 4 on the Vita yet. If Sony can work with Ubisoft to get AC3: Liberation, why couldn't they do a similar deal with Capcom?

[Shifty Geezer]

Yep. Saves firing up the PS3 to look up new content. Although I do wish Sony would force suitable preview material. None of the dynamic themes have any preview videos. There's no way I'm buying a theme without knowing what I'm getting beyond the icon picture, and in the case of some devs (eg. SMOBILE Inc) they have no web presence or YouTube channel to show their content. Would go for a crackling fire theme if I knew the icons didn't suck and the video didn't skip obtrusively.

[Arwin]

Initially they didn't think they needed to do anything, that the Vita version would come automatically. But now it is not clear whether Capcom did a (temporary) exclusive deal with Nintendo or are simply giving priority to mobile (which is currently hot in Japan as well).

[Shifty Geezer]

Originally Posted by tuna

Anyone have any idea why Sony's relationship with the japanese publishers seem to be bad? For example, Capcom has not produced any Monster Hunter Portable 4 on the Vita yet. If Sony can work with Ubisoft to get AC3: Liberation, why couldn't they do a similar deal with Capcom?

Maybe because they have a far bigger market with Nintendo? Monster Hunter was a good fit for PSP. Vita has little market and the demographic for MH is probably expected to be more 3DS and Wii based, maybe.

Ultimately it's not about relationships. It's about publishers investing in making games that'll sell and be profitable, which means targeting the platform(s) that'll support a product. Vita isn't being seen as viable at this point.

[tuna]

Originally Posted by Shifty Geezer

Maybe because they have a far bigger market with Nintendo? Monster Hunter was a good fit for PSP. Vita has little market and the demographic for MH is probably expected to be more 3DS and Wii based, maybe.

The decision to develop MHP4 on Vita or not must have been taken before the actual retail launch of the Vita. Also, Vita sales in Japan would be quite a bit better if MHP4 (or even MHP3G or something) would be available.

[arijoytunir]

according to an official of sony - orbis be a failure ! ( it can be a hoax)
but kotaku posted it - http://kotaku.com/5971029/sony-emplo...will-sell-well

[MfA]

arijoytunir : that post they reprinted was anonymous, so official is a bit of an overstatement.

[JasonLD]

Originally Posted by arijoytunir

according to an official of sony - orbis be a failure ! ( it can be a hoax)
but kotaku posted it - http://kotaku.com/5971029/sony-emplo...will-sell-well

Lol, I can't believe Kotaku even bothered to write an article about some random review that anyone could post.

[kalelovil]

Originally Posted by arijoytunir

according to an official of sony - orbis be a failure ! ( it can be a hoax)
but kotaku posted it - http://kotaku.com/5971029/sony-emplo...will-sell-well

Even if it was posted by a former senior manager of Sony, they manage to contradict themselves within five sentences.

"I don't have a lot of confidence that Orbis will sell well as I don't see it selling to the casual audience. They simply don't need it."

"Stop investing in low margin areas where you can't compete, like casual games. Focus on the core gamer. That is your market!"

[Rurouni]

I think what he tried to say is that Sony currently trying to capture the casual market which he didn't think they would succeed, therfore they should stop selling to the casual market and focus on the core market.

[Squilliam]

If it is true then it implies a less powerful console with a gimmick? Surely that is what would entail from focusing on casuals.

[Docwiz]

Originally Posted by JasonLD

Lol, I can't believe Kotaku even bothered to write an article about some random review that anyone could post.

I read the random review and sure it can be anyone. However, I have been in his position before. I used to work for an owner (that will not be named) for an Internet Service Provider (who will not be named), that was clueless about what our customers wanted and the company is headed into the ground.

When I worked there, I learned a lot of what not to do, so when I open up my own company I can simply avoid those mistakes.

My point is that it sounded like someone got laid off or quit and just telling things how they see it and I don't blame them, Sony has been going down the casual route for a long time and none of it is selling.

A lot of the time it's not about being bitter, but actually telling the good and the bad of the company. Sometimes the highest execs at the top don't see what is in the trenches and they don't get it and they are blind by being so high up because they really don't know what their customer wants anymore and they can have a disconnect and that is where I think Sony is right now.

None of the "casual" software and none of the "causal" hardware is selling at all. If you look at what Sony is doing, you will see they are trying to follow Nintendo. Nintendo makes a Smash Brothers and now Sony does. Nintendo makes a cart racer and now Sony does. Nintendo uses motion control with the wii, Sony follows.

I have noticed a lot of what Sony is trying to do in the casual area is just following someone else and now they are not going to stop with that, they are going to keep trying over and over again until the party is over.

Sony isn't cut out to do casual and if they keep doing that they can damage the company. In the business world, we try to examine who our customer is and we try to advertise to them and if you don't know who your customer is you can get lost and start losing a lot of money.

What worked for Nintendo on the Wii in the casual space may not work again and if Sony keeps trying to follow Nintendo in that space that they can't compete in, I think that is a bad thing.

We need Sony as competition alone, but if they make HUGE mistakes on the Orbis it could be critical this time.

[Docwiz]

So, it sounds like to me that the PS4 is going to be very low priced (didn't want to use the word cheap, because they can have a negative tone) and it's going to be very casual out of the box. (http://www.vg247.com/2012/11/01/ps4_...playstation_4/) for being low priced find "Very affordable".

http://kotaku.com/5897139/sketches-o...then-disappear

It will still play hardcore games because Sony is not giving up completely on their hardcore, but the console hardware itself doesn't seem to be the crown jewel as in the past and it will support being more casual out of the box as I said above. Follow the pattern from PS3 generation there were a lot of casual software as I posted in the post above (Little Big Planet Karting, Playstation All Stars, WonderBook, PS Move, PS Vita, and 3D Support, even the PS3 controller had some basic Wii functionality out of the gate) and it seems like Sony is going more and more down that path.

It's all starting to add up now. Sony in many ways "seems" to be trying to be a little bit like Nintendo and support more casual out of the box at launch. In order to do this they have to have a low powered (as in electricity) and to provide a cheaper but easier to develop console. They are not dropping the hardcore part but it may suffer because they hardware while not going to be poor as Wii or Wii U, will not be top-of-the-line as in the past either.

So, it seems that maybe third parties are not happy (we have heard this from two different sources and I am not counting the other one on Kotaku), we don't know the reason for this yet.

Just drawing the obvious conclusions of what we have heard so far and I think it's finally showing itself at least for Sony. The Kotaku story does make some sense on the evidence that we have seen so far. Honestly, I would not doubt it. The Internet does allow for us to do something anonymously without giving too much to whom we are and to post our frustrations out there.

[arijoytunir]

Originally Posted by Docwiz

So, it sounds like to me that the PS4 is going to be very low priced (didn't want to use the word cheap, because they can have a negative tone) and it's going to be very casual out of the box. (http://www.vg247.com/2012/11/01/ps4_...playstation_4/) for being low priced find "Very affordable".

http://kotaku.com/5897139/sketches-o...then-disappear

It will still play hardcore games because Sony is not giving up completely on their hardcore, but the console hardware itself doesn't seem to be the crown jewel as in the past and it will support being more casual out of the box as I said above. Follow the pattern from PS3 generation there were a lot of casual software as I posted in the post above (Little Big Planet Karting, Playstation All Stars, PS Move, PS Vita, and 3D Support, even the PS3 controller had some basic Wii functionality out of the gate) and it seems like Sony is going more and more down that path.

It's all starting to add up now. Sony in many ways "seems" to be trying to be a little bit like Nintendo and support more casual out of the box at launch. In order to do this they have to have a low powered (as in electricity) and to provide a cheaper but easier to develop console. They are not dropping the hardcore part but it may suffer because they hardware while not going to be poor as Wii or Wii U, will not be top-of-the-line as in the past either.

So, it seems that maybe third parties are not happy (we have heard this from two different sources and I am not counting the other one on Kotaku), we don't know the reason for this yet.

Just drawing the obvious conclusions of what we have heard so far and I think it's finally showing itself at least for Sony. The Kotaku story does make some sense on the evidence that we have seen so far. Honestly, I would not doubt it. The Internet does allow for us to do something anonymously without giving too much to whom we are and to post our frustrations out there.

So no hope for 2 TF ps4 from Sony !