[leoneazzurro]

That's of course correct, but this will be true for AMD, too. In the past, when Nvidia paid per functional die, having bigger dies and so lower yields (as die size and yield are related, even in a mature process) especially in the troubled 40 nm development helped the company in keeping the costs low. They had a sort of "insurance". Now, if they have bad yields (now or in th future), costs for a good GPU will skyrocket .

[Gipsel]

Originally Posted by leoneazzurro

They had a sort of "insurance".

Normally, you have to pay for an insurance.
But you are right, that nV's cost probably got more variable now.

[FUDie]

Originally Posted by UniversalTruth

It's not a problem for them to compete with bigger chips, GF114 is bigger than Barts by almost the same margin.

And you really think this is free for nvidia?

Originally Posted by UniversalTruth

Lose but imaginary money with respect to the best case. They are doing this all the time since they can't sell those chips atdouble the price as an example. Not mentioning that the fully-enabled GK104 carries so much price premium over it to offset salvage costs.

How do you know it offsets costs at all? Say GK104 yields are terrible and you get a lot of salvage parts. Then selling a few for a premium does little to offset the costs. Or, say GK104 yields are great so that you get few salvage parts. Then how do you meet demand for the salvage parts?

Remember the ATI 9500 Pro? They were R300 chips on a board with 128-bit memory bus. Demand was so high, ATI was putting fully functional chips on the boards and, effectively, losing money. Seems like nvidia is in a similar pickle here.

-FUDie

[Mianca]

Originally Posted by UniversalTruth

It's not a problem for them to compete with bigger chips, GF114 is bigger than Barts by almost the same margin.

GF114 vs. Barts was a completely different story.

GF114 was a chip that actually seemed to yield in good quantity and the corresponding cards were profitable because Nvidia sold a LOT of them.

By contrast, GK104 seems to be rather hard to make even a month after launch.

NVidia's main advantage this round is that their high-midrange chip can actually compete with AMD's high-end chip. NVidia's main problem is that they can't make even remotely enough of them - and they still don't have a high-volume chip to make some real money with quantity.

[AlphaWolf]

GK104's ability to compete well with Tahiti doesn't necessarily make it a good choice to compete against pitcairn, the volume requirements of a $300 part are going to be much higher than those of a $500 part. So they either have a lot of partially functional gk104 parts (meaning yields might be an issue) or they are going to be putting sabotaged (laser cut) gk104's in the 660 which means they will be selling those parts for ~50% of their potential. It seems unlikely to me that they are holding back 680 production to meet future 660 and 670 demand (because that would be stupid) and the supply of 680s isn't near meeting demand yet.

So are Nvidia getting a lot of partially functional gk104s or is demand way higher than it has ever been for a $500 card or are yields just plain bad right now and maybe we'll see a revision chip shipping. Or maybe Charlie was right and they shut down TSMC... ok maybe not that.

[seahawk]

GK104 is quite small, especially compared to GF104 and the 6870 series.

If you look at the dies size it is

Tahiti > GK104 > Pitcairn > GK106 - I hardly see any disadvantage for NV.

[Alexko]

As there been any word as to how big GK106 is?

[Psycho]

Originally Posted by seahawk

GK104 is quite small, especially compared to GF104 and the 6870 series.

You mean halfway between them - http://www.techpowerup.com/img/12-03-14/153a.jpg

Originally Posted by Alexko

As there been any word as to how big GK106 is?

I've seen ~210 mentioned, ie the same as Pitcain.
Maybe it's a little on the high side if GK107 is 130mm2 and 106 adds +100% smx and +50% rops/memoryinterface

[iMacmatician]

From SemiAccurate: "Why can’t Nvidia supply Kepler/GK104/GTX680? TSMC is blameless, Kepler is a self-inflicted wound."

[trinibwoy]

Originally Posted by iMacmatician

From SemiAccurate: "Why can’t Nvidia supply Kepler/GK104/GTX680? TSMC is blameless, Kepler is a self-inflicted wound."

Yet the 680 somehow managed to outsell all Pitcairn parts (according to Steam). What magic is this!?

NVIDIA GeForce GT 540M +0.28%
Intel HD Graphics 3000 +0.23%
Intel HD Graphics +0.21%
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 680 +0.18%
Mobile Intel 4 Series Express +0.18%
ATI Mobility Radeon HD 5470 +0.16%
ATI Radeon HD 5450 +0.14%
ATI Radeon HD 6310 %+0.14%
NVIDIA GeForce GT 520M +0.14%
ATI Radeon HD 7800 Series +0.10%

[AlphaWolf]

Steam hasn't exactly been flawless of their execution in terms of their hardware survey. In fact I don't even get those numbers off their current survey.

[trinibwoy]

True, sure beats the alternative though which is bupkus

[Chalnoth]

Originally Posted by trinibwoy

Yet the 680 somehow managed to outsell all Pitcairn parts (according to Steam). What magic is this!?

NVIDIA GeForce GT 540M +0.28%
Intel HD Graphics 3000 +0.23%
Intel HD Graphics +0.21%
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 680 +0.18%
Mobile Intel 4 Series Express +0.18%
ATI Mobility Radeon HD 5470 +0.16%
ATI Radeon HD 5450 +0.14%
ATI Radeon HD 6310 %+0.14%
NVIDIA GeForce GT 520M +0.14%
ATI Radeon HD 7800 Series +0.10%

Where did you get this from? Because I can't seem to find anything about the GTX 680 on Steam's hardware survey site...

[trinibwoy]

Look under the DX10/11 section. It's the second box.

[DSC]

http://www.techpowerup.com/165252/MS...-Up-Close.html

GTX 670 coming soon.

[UniversalTruth]

Originally Posted by trinibwoy

Yet the 680 somehow managed to outsell all Pitcairn parts (according to Steam). What magic is this!?

NVIDIA GeForce GT 540M +0.28%
Intel HD Graphics 3000 +0.23%
Intel HD Graphics +0.21%
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 680 +0.18%
Mobile Intel 4 Series Express +0.18%
ATI Mobility Radeon HD 5470 +0.16%
ATI Radeon HD 5450 +0.14%
ATI Radeon HD 6310 %+0.14%
NVIDIA GeForce GT 520M +0.14%
ATI Radeon HD 7800 Series +0.10%

Originally Posted by Chalnoth

Where did you get this from? Because I can't seem to find anything about the GTX 680 on Steam's hardware survey site...

http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/directx/

It is interesting that they show no actual data about 7870 and 7850, looks like those cards don't exist in the period.
But, you have:

DX10/11 Systems (Vista/Win7 + DX10/11 GPU)

ATI Radeon HD 7950 - --------- 0.02% 0.14% 0.12% (((((((-0.02%)))))))
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 680 ---- ----- ----- 0.04% 0.22% ((((((+0.18%))))))))
ATI Radeon HD 7970 - 0.04% 0.22% 0.34% 0.36% ((((((((+0.02%)))))))

Do you see the trend, looks like there is an obvious slow down in sales. At least for AMD.

edit: Oh, I see that 7800 series summed result for both cards only appears there which is kind of strange.

[denev2004]

Originally Posted by iMacmatician

From SemiAccurate: "Why can’t Nvidia supply Kepler/GK104/GTX680? TSMC is blameless, Kepler is a self-inflicted wound."

by Charlie Demerjian.......

[Dr Evil]

There is Galaxy GTX 680 at stock on Newegg right now. First time I see one in there. Let's see how long it lasts.

edit: I think they only have 1, because it says 2 per customer, but it says insufficient stock if I try to put 2 in the basket.

[fellix]

Kepler vs. Fermi in PhysX

[psolord]

Originally Posted by DSC

http://www.techpowerup.com/165252/MS...-Up-Close.html

GTX 670 coming soon.

Thank goodness, they went for a radial fan after all.

Here's hoping they will be closer to 350 than 400 and the vrm will be decent.

Couldn't they have picked a more annoying place for the power connectors? jesus! Put them in the front bracket next time Nvidia!

Thanks for the news man.

[trinibwoy]

Originally Posted by psolord

Couldn't they have picked a more annoying place for the power connectors? jesus! Put them in the front bracket next time Nvidia!

I think it's because the PCB is that short. Don't know why they went with such an oversized cooler.

[seahawk]

Originally Posted by trinibwoy

I think it's because the PCB is that short. Don't know why they went with such an oversized cooler.

Recent nV Reference Designs coolers seem to focus on lower noise emissions, so that might be the reason. A silent DHE cooler wold be nice.

[DavidGraham]

Originally Posted by iMacmatician

From SemiAccurate: "Why can’t Nvidia supply Kepler/GK104/GTX680? TSMC is blameless, Kepler is a self-inflicted wound."

Big LOL , isn't it always ? we all know Fermi is a broken and unfixable architecture .

[Chalnoth]

Originally Posted by UniversalTruth

http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/directx/

It is interesting that they show no actual data about 7870 and 7850, looks like those cards don't exist in the period.
But, you have:

DX10/11 Systems (Vista/Win7 + DX10/11 GPU)

ATI Radeon HD 7950 - --------- 0.02% 0.14% 0.12% (((((((-0.02%)))))))
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 680 ---- ----- ----- 0.04% 0.22% ((((((+0.18%))))))))
ATI Radeon HD 7970 - 0.04% 0.22% 0.34% 0.36% ((((((((+0.02%)))))))

Do you see the trend, looks like there is an obvious slow down in sales. At least for AMD.

edit: Oh, I see that 7800 series summed result for both cards only appears there which is kind of strange.

Interesting, and it makes more sense in light of the HD 7970 sales. In fact, I'm really surprised that the HD 7970 and GTX 680 line up so closely in their first two months on the charts. But either way this seems to indicate that NV really isn't having volume problems: they're pumping out roughly the same volume as the 7970 has sold, but demand far exceeds this volume.

[lanek]

Originally Posted by UniversalTruth

http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/directx/



edit: Oh, I see that 7800 series summed result for both cards only appears there which is kind of strange.

I have make the round in all their surveys,, it look obvious, they have not collect enough data for be accurate..

7970 who is the longer time here, continue increase: 0.02 > 0.4% in April ...

But then it is hard to find 7870 sometimes it appears sometimes not. With early cards some are maybe detected by driver and not by name correctly.. dont know ( 5% of DX11 cards are detected as other )