[Pressure]

Originally Posted by tongue_of_colicab

Lets just say I don't like apple business tactics and their consumer brainwashing.

For example: Dutch consumer law dictates that there is a 2 year warranty on electronics. Apple time and time again keeps not only screwing over costumers by telling them they only got 1 year warranty (which is against the law) and even now, when they were forced to change it, they keep being a bitch about it. So here you are, with your stupidly overpriced, childlaborour device, and you can't even expect apple to give you your lawfull warranty :') And the beauty of it all is that all apple consumers just accept it with a smile and go out to buy the next overpriced product a year later! Gotta give them credit for that.

And than I wont even start about bullshit like ''retina''. Bitch please, the DPI is only 10% higher than my Touch Diamond had 4 years ago. Actually, it took until the iphone 4 until the iphone could finally do everything my Diamond did.

I will never ever own apple products.

Could you elaborate?

You do realize the difference between a warranty and the EU required reclamation law? Because they are not the same. Apple is actually giving you a full year of warranty instead of the required 6 months, funny isn't it? But you still have, in effect of being a European Union citizen, 2-years full reclamation as required by the law. Warranty ≠ reclamation.

I'll bite with regards to the HTC Touch Diamond but isn't the last 10% what distinguishes you from the 90%?

An old saying goes that the first 90% is the easiest to accomplish but the last 10% is the hardest.

It's pretty hard to argue that the 2.8" 480 x 640 is anything close to the 3.5" 640 x 960 display of the iPhone 4 / 4S. Isn't that isolating one thing and believing the argument will hold up on closer scrutiny?

[Sxotty]

I think razer's laptop shows promise. I think the capacitive screen is a great isea for number pad.

[Silent_Buddha]

Originally Posted by Sxotty

I think razer's laptop shows promise. I think the capacitive screen is a great isea for number pad.

Horrible idea. Most people I know that use a number pad frequently enough for it to be useful are all touch typists. They never look away from the screen when using their numpad.

Then again, I guess since it's a gaming laptop, a useable numpad isn't a high priority. It does look cool, however.

Regards,
SB

[Grall]

A capacitive screen for a numpad is nearly 100% gimmicky. It'll have some uses for sure, but it won't be useful.

[Sxotty]

Originally Posted by Silent_Buddha

Horrible idea. Most people I know that use a number pad frequently enough for it to be useful are all touch typists. They never look away from the screen when using their numpad.

Then again, I guess since it's a gaming laptop, a useable numpad isn't a high priority. It does look cool, however.

Regards,
SB

Um I can use one without feeling the keys. If you use a number pad a lot it is pretty easy actually. I have a separate blue tooth pad I use now though with a laptop.

[AlphaWolf]

The fact that it isn't limited to being a number pad (I wouldn't use that term to describe it at all in fact) makes it useful. I think the switchblade UI is a decent idea (still needs some work), it just needs to find its way into a product that isn't massively overpriced.

[almighty]

Apple are evil, can't stand them...

[DJ12]

Originally Posted by Mize

I wish some other company made hardware as nice as Apple's.

Shouldn't that read hardware cases?

[Sinistar]

As an owner of a dead Toshiba SLI notebook, because of bumpgate, it really confuses me as to how people can continue to by products with Nvidia chips in them.

What seems even stranger is blaming the pc manufacturer for a problem that you know was created by Nvidia.

[AlphaWolf]

Because Apple is responsible for the customer service on that system? What do you think the response would have been if he had contacted Nvidia about the problem? ... talk to apple we aren't a retailer.

[Mize]

Originally Posted by DJ12

Shouldn't that read hardware cases?

Cases and the ways they're stuffed, yes.

[Sinistar]

Yes, your are right. I fotgot that Nvidia created the GPU and we should never question that. thank you for reminding me.

Edit: any one want to buy an awesome SLI laptop. It's not Nvidia fault it doesn't work.

[AlphaWolf]

Blame Nvidia all you want, but the label on the product isn't Nvidia. It's Apples responsibility for making sure their products work and if the product doesn't work it's their responsibility to make restitution to the customer.

[Mize]

Originally Posted by AlphaWolf

Blame Nvidia all you want, but the label on the product isn't Nvidia. It's Apples responsibility for making sure their products work and if the product doesn't work it's their responsibility to make restitution to the customer.

Actually, of Mercedes Benz or GM or VW, etc. builds a car with a defective suspension, engine or safety part that they sourced from another company you can bet the liability goes back to the OEM. The case mentioned here confuses me a bit because it seems Apple was trying to get out of the replacement because the computer was overclocked? What is that bit Davros mentioned about upclocked?

Anyway, the customer is always right. There are people you don't want for customers and it's okay to let them walk, but once you have a customer you need to treat them right.

[AlphaWolf]

Originally Posted by Mize

Actually, of Mercedes Benz or GM or VW, etc. builds a car with a defective suspension, engine or safety part that they sourced from another company you can bet the liability goes back to the OEM. The case mentioned here confuses me a bit because it seems Apple was trying to get out of the replacement because the computer was overclocked? What is that bit Davros mentioned about upclocked?

Are you sure about that? I'm pretty sure the manufacturer is responsible for making sure their end product is functional. ie If hantol doesn't make the brick, I'm pretty sure it's still their fault for putting it in there

Every time there's been a recall with a part in a vehicle I've owned, I've gotten a letter from the manufacturer of the car to take it to the dealer for service. The part manufacturer certainly could be responsible (I suppose it depends on if the product actually meets specs, or usage is out of scope for the part) but from a consumer perspective that's behind the scenes, the manufacturer has to work that out with them.

[Mize]

Sure enough to point out that Nvidia was paying to replace bumpgate...Sony paid to replace exploding Dell batteries (that Sony manufactured).

The point is that, at some point, an integrator of technologies cannot have the expertise to own design and manufacturing responsibility for everything inside it's integrated product.

The company that sells to the end user bears the responsibility to service the customer, handle the recall, etc., but the component supplier must take responsibility downstream for their products.

I mean do you really thing that a company that doesn't manufacture GPUs and who buys GPUs from nvidia should be responsible for nvidia quality issues? Certainly they should be the interface for fixing the problems, but nvidia should be on the hook for the costs.

[Dr Evil]

Originally Posted by Mize

I mean do you really thing that a company that doesn't manufacture GPUs and who buys GPUs from nvidia should be responsible for nvidia quality issues? Certainly they should be the interface for fixing the problems, but nvidia should be on the hook for the costs.

Well he did say this already "The part manufacturer certainly could be responsible (I suppose it depends on if the product actually meets specs, or usage is out of scope for the part) but from a consumer perspective that's behind the scenes, the manufacturer has to work that out with them"

So where is the disagreement?

The "overclocked" thing was just a higher factory setting (i7 930 vs i7 920 for example). His Macbook was 2.6Ghz all along, but apparently the recall campaign was only issued to slower models, possibly due to them only being available at the time I dunno, but it was just a really sleazy way for Apple trying to get away with it.

[Silent_Buddha]

This reminds me of when I was in the support industry over a decade ago.

Microsoft at the time would fix customer issues even if the issue wasn't caused by anything related to one of the Microsoft products.

OEMs would often send their customers to MS support rather than paying to support their own products.

So if a printer wasn't working. Send it to MS. MS support then ended up helping a customer find the appropriate driver for their printer and then attempt to troubleshoot why their printer wasn't working if it still had problems. Even down to trying to troubleshoot hardware issues with the printer.

Computer bluescreening due to faulty memory from the manufacturer? Again, MS support getting stuck with the bill of troubleshooting the issue and then attempting to advise the customer on how to proceed as their OEM (HP, Dell, Asus, etc.) wouldn't provide provide proper support.

Funny thing was. MS support also ended up having to troubleshoot and fix Mac OS issues. If a Microsoft product was even remotely on the system (for example, Internet Explorer is installed and Mac OS is booting slowly), Apple support would automatically reroute the support call to Microsoft. WTF? 8 times out of 10, it was something going wrong with Mac OS and nothing to do with the MS product.

So yes, there are times when a component provider (in this case Microsoft) ends up getting stuck with the responsibility of fixing the equipment manufacturer's (in this case Apple, HP, Dell, Asus, etc.) problems.

Regards,
SB

[Pressure]

Originally Posted by Silent_Buddha

...

Wouldn't surprise me, after all, they had a 5 year agreement with Microsoft during that period. Luckily, that is 9 years ago that Internet Explorer for Mac went defunct and replaced as the default browser by Safari in Mac OS X.

[Silent_Buddha]

Originally Posted by Pressure

Wouldn't surprise me, after all, they had a 5 year agreement with Microsoft during that period. Luckily, that is 9 years ago that Internet Explorer for Mac went defunct and replaced as the default browser by Safari in Mac OS X.

Good to hear, I absolutely hated supporting the Mac during System 7, then Mac OS 8 and 9. If anything could make WinME seem fantastic it was having to support the Mac OS back in those days. What an utterly horrible OS. By the time OSX was released I was in the process of getting out of the support industry.

I think my experience supporting Macs back then is one of the primary reasons I won't even consider getting a modern Mac even though Mac OSX is orders of magnitude better than previous operating systems on Mac.

Regards,
SB

[Davros]

Really ? All you heard from mac users was how wonderful it was

[Pressure]

Originally Posted by Davros

Really ? All you heard from mac users was how wonderful it was

Well, we all make our own experiences, let's just leave it at that.

[Grall]

I used PPC macs in the early/mid 90s, not sure what version system it was, but it was fucking awful that's for sure. It crashed all the bloody time when you least expected it; essentially for doing NOTHING much of the time. Just using the damn computer like you expect to be able to use a computer and BOOM. Out of a clear sky, crash. And often it'd crash so hard you needed to yank the power cord because nothing else would fix it. (Macs don't have hardware reset buttons, of course.........)

It was an absolutely insanely bad OS. I think OSX is pretty damn crap really, but it's a miracle in comparison to how it was back then.

[Mize]

Originally Posted by Grall

I used PPC macs in the early/mid 90s, not sure what version system it was, but it was fucking awful that's for sure. It crashed all the bloody time when you least expected it; essentially for doing NOTHING much of the time. Just using the damn computer like you expect to be able to use a computer and BOOM. Out of a clear sky, crash. And often it'd crash so hard you needed to yank the power cord because nothing else would fix it. (Macs don't have hardware reset buttons, of course.........)

It was an absolutely insanely bad OS. I think OSX is pretty damn crap really, but it's a miracle in comparison to how it was back then.

I missed the PPC years - was on NeXTStep/HPUX/Solaris etc. back then, but I do seem to remember something called BSOD on the win3.1 and win95 machines in adjacent offices

[Davros]

Trust me, BSOD is alive and well