[tangey]

Originally Posted by Lazy8s

Sure, I was playing What If.

If the typical schedule sticks, at most I could see is slotting in two more cores for a 543MP4, and that assumes sub-40nm. They clearly don't need the performance on that refresh to stay competitive, though; higher clocked MP2 is quite likely.

Performance might becomes an issue if the legendary double res ipad is a reality.

[wco81]

But what is using that performance now outside of a few games and benchmarks?

In fact, all games probably will support older iPads, older iPhones/iPod Touches so are they using up all the graphics capabilities now?

So if the graphics performance is a half or a quarter because of the increase in resolution, where will that be noticed outside of benchmarks? If scrolling and transitions are affected or popular games like Angry Birds are noticeably worse, then performance will be an issue.

[Ailuros]

Who says that GPU blocks sit idle outside of 3D in iOS? Nonetheless any SoC is a collection of a multitude of different processors. The more balanced those processors are between them the better.

What other options did Apple have for the A5 outside of the MP2? Two more A9 cores maybe? What would they have done with that with something like Infinity Blade for instance? Increase texture resolutions and add MSAA maybe? I don't think so.

For each design decision there are obviously advantages and disadvantages. But I don't see Apple to have any overall better options to get the iPad2 to stick out of the bunch of any other tablet designs.

If resolution increases for their next iPad and the SoC should increase somewhat in performance it'll probably be again enough to follow a similar trend as with Infinity Blade for example.

[wco81]

If they up the resolution, making sure video decodes better at the higher resolution might be a higher priority than scaling up 3D performance. Video is more likely to be a showcase than 3D games, unless some big WoW or Starcraft-like game comes to iPads.

[ltcommander.data]

Originally Posted by wco81

If they up the resolution, making sure video decodes better at the higher resolution might be a higher priority than scaling up 3D performance. Video is more likely to be a showcase than 3D games, unless some big WoW or Starcraft-like game comes to iPads.

Well 3D could be important if they want to come at console gaming from the side by pushing AirPlay/HDMI out gaming. Or whether they intend to come at console gaming more directly in the next Apple TV box or much rumoured actual TV with all Apple services integrated since these devices will no doubt continue using Apple designed SoCs.

[Ailuros]

Originally Posted by wco81

If they up the resolution, making sure video decodes better at the higher resolution might be a higher priority than scaling up 3D performance. Video is more likely to be a showcase than 3D games, unless some big WoW or Starcraft-like game comes to iPads.

I haven't the vaguest idea what kind of IMG VXD they've used for the A5, but it sounds more like that they haven't exploited yet its full potential due to other restrictions. More like a sw cap than anything else.

That's the most recent one: http://www.imgtec.com/News/Release/index.asp?NewsID=597 which I don't think has made it into the A5, but the maximum frequency on any VXD whitepapers I've seen don't exceed 266MHz in frequency with 25MHz being the lowest for the most simple standards.

Here's the VXD370 description: http://www.imgtec.com/corporate/news...asp?NewsID=312 where up to A4 they've used a VXD375.

With the volumes Apple is dealing and considering the 30% revenue cut developers get in their applications store, it's anything but an unattractive deal for game developers/ISVs. There's no dilemma between devoting hypothetically more fixed function video decoding hw because it's most likely already there and eventually keeping 3D performance on the same level.

Actually I expect that they won't change much if anything for their next batch of SoCs in the GPU block; they'll most likely just increase the frequency and get the additional 3D performance nearly for free due to a smaller manufacturing process.

[wco81]

I haven't followed the TV rumors much but heard some speculations on a podcast, not based on any sources.

Only reason to get into a low-commodity TV business, especially for Apple which likes their high margins, would be to bring values and features you can't get anywhere else. I don't think simply AirPlay capabilities or the access to the iTunes video content would be enough, unless the premium over other TVs was minimal. It's not like AppleTV is a huge hit, or for that matter licensed AirPlay electronics like speakers and receivers.

They'd have to bring new features. One suggestion would be an integrated camera not just for FaceTime but to enable Kinect-type of functionality so that gestures would control the whole thing.

Hmm, if they did that and it was a hit, it would be a very short jump to gaming. The whole, iPad and iPhone are lousy for gaming control issue would be rendered mostly moot. Of course MS would blow a stack and there might be a big lawsuit.

[Pressure]

Originally Posted by wco81

I haven't followed the TV rumors much but heard some speculations on a podcast, not based on any sources.

Only reason to get into a low-commodity TV business, especially for Apple which likes their high margins, would be to bring values and features you can't get anywhere else. I don't think simply AirPlay capabilities or the access to the iTunes video content would be enough, unless the premium over other TVs was minimal. It's not like AppleTV is a huge hit, or for that matter licensed AirPlay electronics like speakers and receivers.

They'd have to bring new features. One suggestion would be an integrated camera not just for FaceTime but to enable Kinect-type of functionality so that gestures would control the whole thing.

Hmm, if they did that and it was a hit, it would be a very short jump to gaming. The whole, iPad and iPhone are lousy for gaming control issue would be rendered mostly moot. Of course MS would blow a stack and there might be a big lawsuit.

That would be hard for Microsoft, considering Apple already has patents covering a "kinect"-like way of controlling a device.

But Apple could make the Apple TV relevant if they managed to get all major studios on board for both movies and series at a flat rate price of $15-20 a month. They just need to provide better content than Netflix and Hulu, which really isn't hard.

Streaming content is definitely the way forward.

[wco81]

Won't happen.

Such a deal would undermine their deals with cable and satellite and probably hurt DVD/Blu-Ray sales as well -- if you can stream any show or movie at any time, why buy discs, even years after release when they may be at bargain basement prices.

Plus the studios are wary of handing Apple another potential blockbuster, at prices which are a fraction of what they currently get on cable and satellite.

[Pressure]

Originally Posted by wco81

Won't happen.

Such a deal would undermine their deals with cable and satellite and probably hurt DVD/Blu-Ray sales as well -- if you can stream any show or movie at any time, why buy discs, even years after release when they may be at bargain basement prices.

Plus the studios are wary of handing Apple another potential blockbuster, at prices which are a fraction of what they currently get on cable and satellite.

Well, I can see it happen. It's not just limited to the Apple TV but for iTunes content. Heck, they already got Disney

[wco81]

Jobs is the biggest individual shareholder in Disney.

[Pressure]

Originally Posted by wco81

Jobs is the biggest individual shareholder in Disney.

I know, hence my comment.

[rpg.314]

Now that the date is set, I'd pitch in

- MASSIVE nfc payment push
- Thunderbolt port to hook up to Thunderbolt Display + bluetooth keyboard + bluetooth mouse to usher into the post PC era.

[wco81]

Thunderbolt seems unlikely. Intel is planning to come out with more smaller Thunderbolt controllers around the time of Ivy Bridge.

[rpg.314]

May be they'd launch with Apple as the lead customer for a while, or perhaps they have a secret chip on which Apple has dibs.

Apple's across the board adoption of thunderbolt is a waste if they are not going to migrate iOS devices to it.

[wco81]

Oh I'd like to see it but because of costs, they probably won't. Plus, the installed base of computers with TB is a tiny sliver right now. Even USB 3.0 is probably doesn't have a big enough installed base.

iOS5 reduces the dependence on syncing by cable.

OTOH, iOS devices could be a great way to spread adoption of TB. Maybe Intel should cut them a deal on the controllers.

[Ailuros]

Probably dumb question but wouldn't it be wiser if Apple would use a shrunk A5 at 32nm or whatever else than the 45nm/A5 for the iPhone5?

[ToTTenTranz]

Originally Posted by Ailuros

Probably dumb question but wouldn't it be wiser if Apple would use a shrunk A5 at 32nm or whatever else than the 45nm/A5 for the iPhone5?

Too soon for 32/28nm, and I don't know if a full A5 would be a proper fit for a phone.

Maybe they'll come up with an A5b or something using something like a ~300MHz SGX543MP1. It'd be a good fit for the 960*640 resolution, keeping approximately the "power per pixel" as the ipad 2.
And maybe couple that with a single-core Cortex A9 @ ~1.4Ghz max instead of a sub-1GHz dual-core.
It could increase the battery longevity quite a bit.

[Lazy8s]

I think the cores in the A5 were implemented at a larger-than-typical size specifically to accommodate the stricter power and heat requirements of a phone, so I doubt fitting the full A5 has ever been a concern. I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't even lower the clocks relative to iPad 2.

Unless Samsung was ready early and is devoting all of their 32nm capacity to Apple, fabrication still has to be the same 45nm process.

My personal wish list: A5, 1 GB RAM, OpenCL integration sooner rather than later, a bigger screen with an only slightly larger form factor (get rid of some of the wasted space), and a slightly higher capacity battery at least. Of the known improvements, I'm most excited about them finally cutting the cord to iTunes: OTA updates and no need to activate via sync.

[Rys]

I'm also hoping for 5 GHz Wi-Fi support in particular. If they keep the same dimensions of the 4 but improve every headline feature (so A5, 5GHz Wi-Fi, better cameras, better battery), I'm probably sold.

[Arun]

Originally Posted by Rys

I'm also hoping for 5 GHz Wi-Fi support in particular. If they keep the same dimensions of the 4 but improve every headline feature (so A5, 5GHz Wi-Fi, better cameras, better battery), I'm probably sold.

BCM4330 (which is also used in the Samsung Galaxy S2) seems like a very solid and surprisingly area-efficient chip so I think 5GHz support is very likely. The only minor technical concern I have is GPS; I hope they won't stick to Qualcomm's fairly average solution for cost reasons.

[ltcommander.data]

Any bets on whether Apple will actually launch both an iPhone 4S and a redesigned iPhone 5?

Personally I'm doubtful Apple will have 2 new models. With what we pretty much know about the iPhone 4S with its redesigned antennae for world-mode, Apple A5, and 8MP camera, that doesn't sound like something Apple will be selling for $99. And if the low-end model has all those features, what's left to differentiate the high-end iPhone 5 other just a new chassis design?

On the other hand, that Apple is only giving a minor refresh to the 5th gen iPod Touch probably staying with the Apple A4, could be a sign that Apple is reallocating the Touch's A5 SoC supply to the support two Apple A5 phone models. And if Voice Assist is tied to the Apple A5 as rumoured and Apple really wants to push adoption of this feature, then they may want even the low-end model to support Voice-Assist which necessitates giving it an A5.

If it's too early for 32nm at Samsung or 28nm at TSMC, does TSMC's 40nm process given any noticeable advantage over Samsung's 45nm process in power or performance? The early Apple/TSMC partnership rumours were about the 40nm process. In terms of a dual source play, I wonder if it makes sense for Apple to first produce new designs on Samsung's processes (45nm/32nm/etc) for the iPad and then follow a few months later with a partial shrink and perhaps minor design tweaks on TSMC's processes (40nm/28nm/etc) for iPhone and iPod Touch.

[wco81]

I don't see myself using the voice interface. I hate the IVR systems when you call banks and airlines and stuff.

Sounds like there are few areas of innovation left in the mobile space.

[Arun]

Originally Posted by ltcommander.data

Any bets on whether Apple will actually launch both an iPhone 4S and a redesigned iPhone 5?

Hard to say, but unlike what you're saying, the only mildly reliable rumour is that the iPhone 4S is basically identical to the iPhone 4 but with a cheaper chassis (plastic?) and maybe a slightly faster A4 processor (and/or minor cost reductions like using Infineon's UE2 3G RF instead of UE1). It would just be a cost-down for the low-end instead of reusing the exact same model as previously like they did on the 3GS. The real refresh would still be the iPhone 5. We'll see if that turns out to be true.

I don't see myself using the voice interface. I hate the IVR systems when you call banks and airlines and stuff.

I don't personally own a car but it sounds like an incredibly cool feature for hands free. High-end Bluetooth headsets have added a few nifty voice-based features in the last several years, but that will always pale in comparison to what the OS developer can do.

I do use sometimes (i.e. fairly rarely) listen to music outside with a stereo Bluetooth headset - I wonder if they could do voice recognition on album or song names? At the very least being able to skip a song or shuffle simply by talking to my Bluetooth stereo headset would be nifty (if slightly embarrassing with people nearby). So anyhow, I think the big question is Bluetooth integration and I'll be curious to see how well they handle it.

[frogblast]

Originally Posted by Arun

I wonder if they could do voice recognition on album or song names? At the very least being able to skip a song or shuffle simply by talking to my Bluetooth stereo headset would be nifty (if slightly embarrassing with people nearby).

Apple added that a year ago with iOS 4.

http://www.apple.com/iphone/features/voice-control.html