[patsu]

I believe the available vendors/techs are: RealD, Dolby 3D, IMAX 3D and XpanD. Might want to ask in the 3D gaming/tech thread.

[corduroygt]

More Cell TVs announced:
http://www.toshiba.co.jp/about/press/2010_07/pr2801.htm

[Crossbar]

Originally Posted by corduroygt

More Cell TVs announced:
http://www.toshiba.co.jp/about/press/2010_07/pr2801.htm

I really wonder what this 3d effect looks like.

·2D3D Converting Technology

Toshiba's 2D3D conversion technology CELL TV allow users to enjoy various 2D content as high quality 3D. The 2D3D conversion technology is based on an algorithm that combines high speed with high precision. It allocates depth by capturing the characteristic of the input image and by detecting and recognizing vectors of movement of several objects.

I wonder how well it handles static objects.

[AlphaWolf]

Originally Posted by Crossbar

I really wonder what this 3d effect looks like.



I wonder how well it handles static objects.

Ya I really just don't get how this can be any good with no real depth information. I expect it will be some serious nausea inducing crap. My bar is set pretty low, so maybe I will be pleasantly surprised.

[Shifty Geezer]

Have we still got no comparison of their HD upscaling tech?!

[patsu]

http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/04/t...-app-for-andr/

Toshiba always likes to push the boundaries of TV technology -- Cell TV, Media Center extender TVs and its more recent glasses free 3D efforts come to mind immediately -- but there's always room for more conventional HDTVs and it showed off a few in Japan recently. The Z2 series of LED lit LCDs ship later this month and utilize a dual-core "CEVO (Cell Evolution) Engine" processor that has the horsepower to run its super resolution video upconverting algorithms. It also claims a mere 0.7 frames of input lag in game mode thanks to First In First Out memory that matches the performance of screens used in arcade cabinets.

Google translated article:
http://translate.google.com/translat...1&ie=Shift_JIS

[Shifty Geezer]

Has there ever yet been a review of their super resolution+ upscaling? Googling throws up Jan 2010 expectations but zero reviews! Since SPURSEngine's release and these TV's announcement, the contribution of Cell to the TV space has been nothing anyone has talked about. Now interest has shifted to 3D upscaling it seems, but the performance of SPURSEngine in this space hasn't been proven, and Toshiba went with a proprietary part, the Meta Brain it seems, to do this job in lower cost TVs.

[Weaste]

So this CEVO thing. It's basically two Cell BEs one sat on top of the other, so giving 2 PPUs and 16 SPUs? Basically an IBM Cell blade on a chip? How do these two processors communicate with each other, as is there any Flex I/O on the level of the CBE/RSX to connect it to a GPU, or it that bus now internal to this chip?

Does anyone have any more details about this dual core Cell?

[Xenus]

Nah it's more then likely two SPURs which would make it 2 PPUs and 8 SPUs

[Shifty Geezer]

Why do that rather than a 1:8 Cell? I can't see the second PPE being much use.

[Xenus]

No idea but Toshiba has been using their SPURS engine in all their products you think their would be an announcement if that changed.

[Weaste]

Originally Posted by Xenus

No idea but Toshiba has been using their SPURS engine in all their products you think their would be an announcement if that changed.

The original Cell TV used a 1:8 Cell BE. Spurs doesn't have a PPE.

[Xenus]

I could of swore SPURS was a 1:4 and that's what they were using in their tvs.

[Shifty Geezer]

SUPRSEngine is 4 SPEs, no CPU, allowing whatever other CPU to be connected. They are (were?)using SPURESEngine in some TVs, but the original uber-TV was a full Cell BBE.

[ADEX]

Does anyone have any more details about this dual core Cell?

CEVO is not Cell:

Toshiba-reveals-hex-core-ARM-A9-TV-processor.htm

[Shifty Geezer]

Gosh, so Cell only in name regards concept of cellular processors. I'm surprised, as Toshiba's idea for Cell originally was just SPEs, like SPURSEngine. To go with complex multipurpose multicores is a deviation from their path. One also wonders what is it about Cell that generates so much heat versus this solution of theirs? It sounds rather as though they are forgoing programmability for specialisation, with the custom processing chip in the processing-sandwich's centre. This was always a concern for Cell's future, whether its performance and programmability that could drive media devices would ever be competitive with ASICs. History is telling us 'no'.

[RudeCurve]

Waiting for Carl B to still claim CELL is still better than ASICs for CE applications....

[patsu]

CE space will evolve with new devices like iPad and GoogleTV (App Stores !). ASICs alone may not cut it. OTOH, GoogleTV's Atom CPU is too d*mn slow. So we may still need general purpose power, programmability, plus specialized hardware. Toshiba TV alone may not foretell the complete CE future (e.g., They may have executed badly).

[Arwin]

Originally Posted by Shifty Geezer

Gosh, so Cell only in name regards concept of cellular processors. I'm surprised, as Toshiba's idea for Cell originally was just SPEs, like SPURSEngine. To go with complex multipurpose multicores is a deviation from their path. One also wonders what is it about Cell that generates so much heat versus this solution of theirs? It sounds rather as though they are forgoing programmability for specialisation, with the custom processing chip in the processing-sandwich's centre. This was always a concern for Cell's future, whether its performance and programmability that could drive media devices would ever be competitive with ASICs. History is telling us 'no'.

The landscape has changed dramatically with the advent of internet TV type services.

[patsu]

... which is why Blu-ray players is a missed opportunity. They have a standardized Java run-time, but no focus on apps until Apple came along with iPhone and showed them. >_<

I was told the player manufacturers just wanted to save $$$ on cheaper components in Blu-ray meetings.

[Shifty Geezer]

Originally Posted by Arwin

The landscape has changed dramatically with the advent of internet TV type services.

Which are stupid. At least, integrating them is. The display should just be a display. The gubbins to play stuff on it should come from a separate box, that can be upgrade as needed, or replaced when it busts. I can see a need to replace a digibox every three years or so, but a TV can last much longer.

More on topic though, I don't see how this evolution is good for Cell versus other systems. It's probably more likely TVs will go with ARM and SGX or something - some architecture commonplace and understood and with current software. I can't see how Cell could find its way into TVs now. Even if it's the better architecture overall due to flexibility, the Cell ecosystem has grown beyond console games and a bit of supercomputing.

[idsn6]

Even IBM shuttered the Cell resource center site recently. Seems pretty dead an end.

[patsu]

Originally Posted by Shifty Geezer

Which are stupid. At least, integrating them is. The display should just be a display. The gubbins to play stuff on it should come from a separate box, that can be upgrade as needed, or replaced when it busts. I can see a need to replace a digibox every three years or so, but a TV can last much longer.

I suspect displays will find its way into more devices... integrated rather than staying "standalone".

More on topic though, I don't see how this evolution is good for Cell versus other systems. It's probably more likely TVs will go with ARM and SGX or something - some architecture commonplace and understood and with current software. I can't see how Cell could find its way into TVs now. Even if it's the better architecture overall due to flexibility, the Cell ecosystem has grown beyond console games and a bit of supercomputing.

I think the point was we still need programmability in CE space. ASICs alone may be insufficient.

Originally Posted by idsn6

Even IBM shuttered the Cell resource center site recently. Seems pretty dead an end.

Yap !

[RudeCurve]

Originally Posted by patsu

CE space will evolve with new devices like iPad and GoogleTV (App Stores !). ASICs alone may not cut it. OTOH, GoogleTV's Atom CPU is too d*mn slow. So we may still need general purpose power, programmability, plus specialized hardware. Toshiba TV alone may not foretell the complete CE future (e.g., They may have executed badly).

ASICs evolve too...just because it's "application specific" doesn't mean it won't be able handle future applications. Looking at today's low cost "media processors" they could handle all kinds of apps. I mean just take a look at Broadcom's portfolio. They've got ASICs for everything. Want to support new apps? Update the firmware.

[patsu]

You still need general purpose programmability for an AppStore. I believe Broadcom's Blu-ray SoC include 2 MIPS execution units and Java VM.