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Old 09-Jun-2009, 15:48   #101
warmi
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No official info about the CPU yet .. but it looks like it will be Cortex.
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Old 09-Jun-2009, 23:23   #102
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"The PowerVR SGX is the graphics processor in Apple’s newest iPhones and is designed for OpenGL ES 2.0. The graphics driver for the PowerVR SGX also"

SGX in the new iPhone, cool!

I'm going to also toss in a wild guess that if Apple doesn't fully support the unified shaders of the SGX (what if vertex texture fetch is missing) via GLES2, that they might be planning on moving on to Tegra in a future product line...
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Old 09-Jun-2009, 23:42   #103
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Definitely going to hold out for the new model - I noticed that the old one has some among other speed related issues that even if I may be able to get used to them, my wife definitely isn't (and I'm expecting her to use it more)
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Old 10-Jun-2009, 02:34   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimothyFarrar View Post
SGX in the new iPhone, cool!

I'm going to also toss in a wild guess that if Apple doesn't fully support the unified shaders of the SGX (what if vertex texture fetch is missing) via GLES2, that they might be planning on moving on to Tegra in a future product line...
Than isn't going to happen. Apple took a multi-year, mult-product, multi-use license from IMG, and have also become a shareholder. Apple have also bought their own Soc design house (PA semi). I'd say there is zero chance of Apple turning to an off the shelf App Pro like Tegra.
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Old 10-Jun-2009, 03:39   #105
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How long do you think it will take until we find out what CPU/GPU/RAM Apple used in the iPhone 3G S?

I HOPE they used ARMv7@600MHz/SGX530/256MB but I guess something like ARM11/SGX520/128MB could be possible too.
I also hope they tweaked the display a little bit like last time (e.g. brightness, viewing angle etc.) and made the loudspeaker louder.

Last edited by Mike11; 10-Jun-2009 at 03:53.
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Old 10-Jun-2009, 04:44   #106
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Quote:
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How long do you think it will take until we find out what CPU/GPU/RAM Apple used in the iPhone 3G S?
Friday next week, you'll see thousands of developers writing running their own benchmarks. It won't take more than a few hours before you'll find tons of blog posts about it.
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Old 10-Jun-2009, 04:51   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimothyFarrar View Post
"The PowerVR SGX is the graphics processor in Apple’s newest iPhones and is designed for OpenGL ES 2.0. The graphics driver for the PowerVR SGX also"

(what if vertex texture fetch is missing) ...
Indeed, it is missing
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Old 10-Jun-2009, 10:12   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike11 View Post
How long do you think it will take until we find out what CPU/GPU/RAM Apple used in the iPhone 3G S?

I HOPE they used ARMv7@600MHz/SGX530/256MB but I guess something like ARM11/SGX520/128MB could be possible too.
I also hope they tweaked the display a little bit like last time (e.g. brightness, viewing angle etc.) and made the loudspeaker louder.

Anandtech have put up an article today that agrees with my view from April that its a customised samsung S5PC100 (they suggest running at 600Mhz) + SGX (they suggest SGX520),

http://www.anandtech.com/gadgets/showdoc.aspx?i=3579
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Old 10-Jun-2009, 10:36   #109
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Sorry for not having commented much on this yet, but I'm willing to bet it's at least a SGX530 given PowerVR's claimed tape-out timeframes for various SGX family members. And of course, I'm very impressed by Apple managing to bring this product to market in this timeframe - I guess I got a tad too pessimistic because of constantly being proven wrong when too optimistic... I'm a bit surprised my info was wrong, but heh. BTW, I don't think it's fair to call it a custom S5PC100, since so much of the front-end design work should already have happened inside Apple.

Regarding the missing texture fetch, I'm sure they had to do plenty of custom work to port SGX to MacOS X so I wouldn't be surprised if this was just a development focus issue. There is zero (read that again: zero) chance Apple goes for Tegra anytime soon, but it's true that they like keeping long-term flexibility when it comes to suppliers (witness the SGX license agreement mentioning other semi partners/foundries), presumably including IP, even if they often stick for a long time to the same one. But in that timeframe I can't imagine competitors not supporting vertex fetch anyway.
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Old 10-Jun-2009, 11:01   #110
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Originally Posted by silent_guy View Post
Friday next week, you'll see thousands of developers writing running their own benchmarks. It won't take more than a few hours before you'll find tons of blog posts about it.
Hm, I think we're gonna have to wait a bit longer for all details like if the chip really is a derivative of Samsung’s S5PC100, what's the CPU cache size, or even the GPU clock speed etc.
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Old 10-Jun-2009, 11:49   #111
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Originally Posted by darkblu View Post
it's in the platform notes from the latest edition of the gl es programming guite for the iphone.
Yay for respecting NDAs!
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Old 10-Jun-2009, 12:15   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arun View Post
Sorry for not having commented much on this yet, but I'm willing to bet it's at least a SGX530 given PowerVR's claimed tape-out timeframes for various SGX family members. And of course, I'm very impressed by Apple managing to bring this product to market in this timeframe - I guess I got a tad too pessimistic because of constantly being proven wrong when too optimistic... I'm a bit surprised my info was wrong, but heh. BTW, I don't think it's fair to call it a custom S5PC100, since so much of the front-end design work should already have happened inside Apple.
The article contains a few tidbits about SGX I'm not so sure he could figure out from public documents (like Vec2 for USSE and Vec4 for USSE2). I don't know what the 3GS actually contains but it's likely that he has contacted IMG for some details on their articles to write his article.

One minor hair splitting would be that MBX's VGP isn't a fixed function unit. It's a VS1.1 geometry processor afaik.
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Old 10-Jun-2009, 13:13   #113
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Originally Posted by warmi View Post
Indeed, it is missing
how could you tell that?
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Old 10-Jun-2009, 15:55   #114
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how could you tell that?
Read the new OpenGL docs on their dev site ... it is there.
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Old 10-Jun-2009, 17:06   #115
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Hm, I think we're gonna have to wait a bit longer for all details like if the chip really is a derivative of Samsung’s S5PC100, what's the CPU cache size, or even the GPU clock speed etc.
Ok, but whether or not it's a derivative of something else is more of an academic question, right?
But things like L1 and L2 cache are trivial to determine. CPU clock speed likewise if you don't mind writing a couple of lines of ARM asm code. Absolute GPU speed is difficult, but what matters is the relative clock speed. Those numbers are going to be posted very quickly.
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Old 10-Jun-2009, 17:25   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arun View Post
Regarding the missing texture fetch, I'm sure they had to do plenty of custom work to port SGX to MacOS X so I wouldn't be surprised if this was just a development focus issue. There is zero (read that again: zero) chance Apple goes for Tegra anytime soon, but it's true that they like keeping long-term flexibility when it comes to suppliers (witness the SGX license agreement mentioning other semi partners/foundries), presumably including IP, even if they often stick for a long time to the same one. But in that timeframe I can't imagine competitors not supporting vertex fetch anyway.
My guess that Apple might not have full SGX hardware supported features stems from Apple's past history (IMO) of only supporting the lowest common denominator of GPU hardware via API support. Likely so they could swap in/out hardware and have differences between low and hi-end machines without ever thinking about compatibility. Since I don't know about the licensing end, I just have to take your word that this would NOT be a case of Apple planning ahead to optionally replace SGX with something else in later iPhone models.

It would be hard for me to believe that if Apple decided not to include API support for various unique SGX hardware features, that they would do so out of a time issue. For example, with unified shaders, something like VTF would have to be intentionally disabled because you'd be using the same JIT/compile system for both VS and PS. Also Apple would be getting reference driver source from the IHVs, if so wouldn't they have to remove SGX feature support from the reference drivers when porting them over?

Besides if Apple was tied down with a long term license, wouldn't it make more sense to make it a priority to fully support the unique advantages of the licensed hardware to both enable developers to better take advantage of the hardware (better iPhone apps compared to competition), and to possible make it harder to port the applications off the iPhone to competitive Windows/Linux devices and dilute the market.
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Old 10-Jun-2009, 21:04   #117
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T-mobile in holland has confirmed a 600Mhz CPU and 256M of Ram.

http://www.t-mobile.nl/iphone/specif..._iphone2_specs
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Old 10-Jun-2009, 21:08   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arun View Post
Sorry for not having commented much on this yet, but I'm willing to bet it's at least a SGX530 given PowerVR's claimed tape-out timeframes for various SGX family members. And of course, I'm very impressed by Apple managing to bring this product to market in this timeframe - I guess I got a tad too pessimistic because of constantly being proven wrong when too optimistic... I'm a bit surprised my info was wrong, but heh. BTW, I don't think it's fair to call it a custom S5PC100, since so much of the front-end design work should already have happened inside Apple.
Do you have any evidence that Apple would have done much of the work on this AP ?, could it not have been similar to the previous processor where it was basically an existing samsung Soc with MBX-lite included ?
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Old 11-Jun-2009, 14:46   #119
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Beyond3D Exclusive!


The Samsung Louvre (B7610)

- 3.5 AMOLED 16Mcolors resistive screen WVGA (800X480)
- 800Mhz CPU (The samsung reps didn't even know wich one lol and the samsung UI skinning is so deep I couldn't even find the properties page in WM to see the CPU reported. But I'm guessing S3C6410 + MSM6250 baseband)
- 5.1Mpx AutoFocus Cam with LED flash
- Slide Out Qwerty
- 2 UIs (Pro & Media, there's a dedicated button to switch between them)
- TV-OUT
- 3.5" Headphone jack
- MicroUSB connetor (no more samsung connector to charge and headphone)
- Divx/WMV/H.264 accellerations
- GPS/WIFI/HSDPA/HSUPA/BT
- FM Radio
- DNLA support
- 1GB internal memory + SDHC up to 32Gb
- 1500mAh

Release date August 2009 (maybe later cause the current rom is slow as hell. The Omnia 2 (GT-i8000) has been delayed t'il novembre for the same reasons IIRC) and free upgrade to WM6.5 in Sep/Oct.

Sorry for the lame watermark on the pic

Mak

Last edited by Ike Turner; 13-Jun-2009 at 10:37.
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Old 11-Jun-2009, 14:52   #120
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Where's the pics?
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Old 11-Jun-2009, 14:53   #121
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Where's the pics?
Refresh the page it should be back.
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Old 12-Jun-2009, 02:48   #122
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I got a porn pop-up from there. =\ Sex webcams. No nudity, but who knows if other pop ups might have some.

Tread with caution.
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Old 15-Jun-2009, 04:38   #123
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I didn't see it linked here but Anandtech speculates on the silicon in the 3G S.

http://www.anandtech.com/gadgets/showdoc.aspx?i=3579
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Old 15-Jun-2009, 09:58   #124
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I didn't see it linked here but Anandtech speculates on the silicon in the 3G S.

http://www.anandtech.com/gadgets/showdoc.aspx?i=3579
Well, the only thing that isn't "clear" yet is the GPU. Anand speculates in the article that it is a SGX 520 (the smallest SGX) and writes in the comments when asked how sure he is about that: "The graphics side I'm also very sure about, although I can't post why ".

Some people hope for SGX 530 or even more. SGX 530 is very possible, 540 a long shot. I think Apple plans to reuse this year's SoC in the 2010 model (@45nm and with some tweaks), so a more powerful SGX than the 520 would imho make more sense.
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Old 15-Jun-2009, 13:36   #125
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Originally Posted by Mike11 View Post
Well, the only thing that isn't "clear" yet is the GPU. Anand speculates in the article that it is a SGX 520 (the smallest SGX) and writes in the comments when asked how sure he is about that: "The graphics side I'm also very sure about, although I can't post why ".

Some people hope for SGX 530 or even more. SGX 530 is very possible, 540 a long shot. I think Apple plans to reuse this year's SoC in the 2010 model (@45nm and with some tweaks), so a more powerful SGX than the 520 would imho make more sense.

Its is nearly guaranteed NOT to be 520. In Oct '08, IMG stated:-

"SGX540 is licensed to more than five partners, and has taped out this quarter in multiple SoCs, while SGX531 and SGX520 are in design with several licensees"
http://www.imgtec.com/News/Release/index.asp?NewsID=400


So 520 wasn't in Tape out at that time. Its pretty much impossible to go from "in design" to in a chip in production quantities in 9 months.

It would appear that 520 was present in some physical form in Nov '08, as it passed opengles2.0 conformance testing at that time:-
http://www.imgtec.com/News/Release/index.asp?NewsID=411

I think its highly likely to be 530, with a very outside chance of being 540.
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