[22psi]

Originally Posted by liolio

I don't think this video as been linked already.

yeah that's a pretty sweet vid, game looks fantastic... much better than FM2 which was disappointing to me

[slapnutz]

Anyone know if the cars get lighter as fuel gets used up?

[Shoujoboy]

It looks amazing :O

[RudeCurve]

Originally Posted by slapnutz

Anyone know if the cars get lighter as fuel gets used up?

No but your car will get lighter if you filled the tires with helium.

[P on the rocks]

Originally Posted by Ostepop

GRID is an arcade racer and can thus get away with 30fps.

I didn't know GRID was in arcades. And since Virtua Racing came out every racer I have seen in arcades ran with 60fps. Actually pretty much every game (fighters, shooters, sports etc.) runs with 60fps in arcades. If I had to name one technical feature that is characteristic for arcade games, it would be 60 fps.

Forza 1 on the other hand ran with 30 fps tops. I read in an interview that they rather used processing time to calculate more physics states per drawn frame.

[Cheezdoodles]

Arcade racer as in unrealistic, not as in actually being located at the arcades.

F1 was 30fps, and the devs got hell for it, which is why F2 was 60fps, and why F3 will be 60fps aswell.

[the ignoramus]

Did anyone play it at the show?
I'm hearing conflicting reports of the game running at 30 fps in cockpit view. (60 fps in third person and hood view)
I find that hard to believe.

[czekon]

http://e3.gamespot.com/story/6211100...ort-3-hands-on

looks fantastic

[Cheezdoodles]

Originally Posted by slapnutz

Anyone know if the cars get lighter as fuel gets used up?

Hard to tell, because after youve got proper heat in the tires, your grip gets worse and worse, while your fuel decreases and thus weight get lower.

Hard to measure if your car actually gets lighter in game, because the decrease in weight seems to be outmatched by the decrease in tire grip.

Its therefore hard to asses if your car actually gets lighter when your fuel decreases (it would be very easy to implement thought, simple math, you wouldn't even have to update it that often to have a satisfactory effect).

I just remembered, if anyone still has FM2, you can turn off tire wear, but i think you can still have fuel consumtion in the options (not 100% sure). If thats the case, just take some laps on a easy course that you can handle and check times.

[liolio]

New gameplay vid from gamersyde here , looks really impressive but the guy is pretty bad

[slapnutz]

Originally Posted by liolio

New gameplay vid from gamersyde here , looks really impressive but the guy is pretty bad

Racing game been played/demo'ed by bad drivers/players have coexisted since the dawn of time.

[Inquisitive_Idiot]

GameTrailers off-screen Replay Footage

Watch for the panning over the car and its interior and the end of the video. If that is representative of the game model than It looks like Turn 10 has outdone themselves with Forza 3, I never expected it to look that good considering the amount of dev time relative to Gran Turismo 5.

[Nebula]

Originally Posted by Inquisitive_Idiot

GameTrailers off-screen Replay Footage

Watch for the panning over the car and its interior and the end of the video. If that is representative of the game model than It looks like Turn 10 has outdone themselves with Forza 3, I never expected it to look that good considering the amount of dev time relative to Gran Turismo 5.

Well they said 10x polygons so that would make them extremly detailed at upto 1m polys each.

[Inquisitive_Idiot]

Originally Posted by Nebula

Well they said 10x polygons so that would make them extremly detailed at upto 1m polys each.

Yeah, but how could they handle something like 600,000 - 800,000 polys per car in-game at 60FPS with that beautiful scenery as well. I am guessing they have like super high detail cars for the garage and replays and then lower detail ones for the actual races or something like that.

[Nebula]

Originally Posted by Inquisitive_Idiot

Yeah, but how could they handle something like 600,000 - 800,000 polys per car in-game at 60FPS with that beautiful scenery as well. I am guessing they have like super high detail cars for the garage and replays and then lower detail ones for the actual races or something like that.

I bet 10$ on tesselation feature of Xenos. I remember with 9800pro (ATI TruForm) and how Raven Shield police characters bumped from ~3-5k to about 25k polys each with smooth framerates. magic? Hell no!

[Arwin]

I'm thinking Forza 2 models were probably more like 40.000 polys max. If they managed to push it up to 400.000 that would mean they could do 200.000 on the interior and 200.000 on the exterior. In theory, according to the figures we're getting from the developers, that would put both games at the same amount of polygons per car - GT5 Prologue is supposed to have 100.000 polygons on the interior and another 100.000 on the exterior. And 8 cars x 400.000 equals 16 cars x 200.000 ...

In practice though, I'm strongly suspecting that Forza 2 will be like PGR4 and only have that amount of detail when you park a single car somewhere along the road and drive 0 mph. I think games on the 360 under optimum conditions push 3-4 million polygons, and 8x400.000 uses up that budget already leaving practically nothing for the track, which doesn't seem likely. In both games, there's undoubtedly a lot of LOD-ing going on, as has always been. Forza has the added difficulty of supporting custom liveries, which is awesome but must cost at least a bit of power.

In both games, the individual car models are clearly very, very detailed, and that detail will very likely shine most in selection screens and replay modes - in other words, when you have time to look at them.

[liolio]

OT
I wonder if it would interesting to ask our dear devs in a proper thread what they think about the interaction between Dx11 and 360 development. Not that the xenos is directx11 compliant but it can support tesselation, multi thread rendering and while not able to deal with compute shaders where they stand in regard to memexport use.
/OT

[Gubbi]

Originally Posted by Arwin

I'm thinking Forza 2 models were probably more like 40.000 polys max. If they managed to push it up to 400.000 that would mean they could do 200.000 on the interior and 200.000 on the exterior. In theory, according to the figures we're getting from the developers, that would put both games at the same amount of polygons per car - GT5 Prologue is supposed to have 100.000 polygons on the interior and another 100.000 on the exterior. And 8 cars x 400.000 equals 16 cars x 200.000 ...

LOD would make the last 8 cars basically free. Polycount fidelity scales inversely with the distance to the object squared, cars 9 through 16 would have to be further away because you can't physically cram 15 cars in the view frustrum just outside the wind shield.

I'm guessing it's the amount of physics simulation that limits the number of cars to 8, - especially with the more advanced tire-simulation. 8 cars with 4 tires with 360 ticks per second ( 6x oversampled compared to framerate). The you have suspension, aerodynamics (no idea how complex/complete this is) etc.

Cheers

[Nebula]

Originally Posted by Arwin

I'm thinking Forza 2 models were probably more like 40.000 polys max. If they managed to push it up to 400.000 that would mean they could do 200.000 on the interior and 200.000 on the exterior. In theory, according to the figures we're getting from the developers, that would put both games at the same amount of polygons per car - GT5 Prologue is supposed to have 100.000 polygons on the interior and another 100.000 on the exterior. And 8 cars x 400.000 equals 16 cars x 200.000 ...

One thing is for sure, the AI/other players wont have 100-200k polys for the interiors etc. The only interesting part here is how well the framerate would be with all cars closeup. I've seen some severe framerate dips in such situations for GT5. Wonder how F3 does with 8 cars.

In practice though, I'm strongly suspecting that Forza 2 will be like PGR4 and only have that amount of detail when you park a single car somewhere along the road and drive 0 mph. I think games on the 360 under optimum conditions push 3-4 million polygons, and 8x400.000 uses up that budget already leaving practically nothing for the track, which doesn't seem likely. In both games, there's undoubtedly a lot of LOD-ing going on, as has always been. Forza has the added difficulty of supporting custom liveries, which is awesome but must cost at least a bit of power.

Sure 3-4m but how about with tesselation feature of Xenos? I also think the cars might have some more detail in garage or in showroom like what seems in GT5. But perhaps main car has more detail and the rest less in ingame play. Or so it seemed.

[Silent_Buddha]

Aye, to date very few games have taken advantage of the tesselator of Xenos. If they've managed to come up with an efficient way to use it, it does allow them to use orders of magnitude more triangles for things.

Regards,
SB

[infinity4]

FM3 runs at 1080p + 60fps?

http://game.watch.impress.co.jp/img/...for01.jpg.html

[Inquisitive_Idiot]

Gamespot 14 Min. Demo

Overall a good presentation, but I recomend you download the 180mb version on the right hand side. Its a shame GameSpot makes you subscribe for the high quality footage because they have an 800mb version of this video.

EDIT: I noticed the cars have real-time environment reflections which is pretty impressive. In one scene when Che switches to the hood view you can see the reflection of the car in front of him on the hood.

[AlStrong]

Originally Posted by Inquisitive_Idiot

EDIT: I noticed the cars have real-time environment reflections which is pretty impressive. In one scene when Che switches to the hood view you can see the reflection of the car in front of him on the hood.

Seems limited to just the hood view, but I would think it's no different than having the rear-view mirrors in terms of performance.

[RobertR1]

The replay mode is actually usefull now! FM2 had *the* worst replay system in a racing game. The camera would just be zoomed in around the car the whole damn time. Now it looks to be quite well done. This is easily the most improved game of the show. The leap over FM2 is very impressive. Didn't expect them to pull all of this off.

[22psi]

Upgrade is very noticeable!