[RobertR1]

From gaf. Verified.

360: 160K
PS3: 124K
3DS: 113.5K
Wii: 71K
PSV: 50k to 56k range

[AlStrong]

Incoming back-to-school or holiday price drop?

[RobertR1]

Sure, a loser price will help but for the consoles, I'd say generational fatigue is a big factor.

If it was purely a money issue, then iDevices and smartphones wouldn't be selling at the rate they do.

For handhelds though, I'm quite convinced the NA market has peaked and the mindshare isn't coming back. You'll see blips with big releases and price cuts but I don't expect them to ramp up and maintain.

[Mboojigga]

Vita came too late and worse Sony has tried using the same strategy it used with the PSP. It has the same issues and some how they thought the same plan outside of Japan would work and it isn't. This is simply dead on arrival.

[RobertR1]

PSP < 17K < 50K < PSV < Wii < 90K < DS < 100k < 3DS < PS3 < 150K < 360

[Scott_Arm]

It'll be interesting to see the software numbers, but I think the new consoles are going to sell poorly until the Christmas season starts, and after that they'll be pretty much dead. I'm surprised the new consoles haven't been announced already for Christmas 2013. I can't even imagine how dead this gen will be if it has to ride out until 2014.

[babybumb]

PS Vita is not underperforming vs rest of the market actually at all. About 1/2 3DS. Handheld costs the same as PS3 + memorycard lulz

Should be lower than that. 3DS only up 17% compared to before pricecut last year is shocking for Nintendo. They cut the handheld margings for good and got only so much

[Scott_Arm]

There is no way Sony is happy with the Vita numbers, and anyone is going to convince me it isn't underperforming. It's going to be hard to convince anyone to make games for it if they keep selling like that.

[RobertR1]

There's absolute nothing on the horizon that will make it better in the NA market.

The people thinking CoD and Assassins Creed will kickstart it are in for a rude awakening. You'll see some holiday and price drops bumps but they'll fade quickly. This thing might get Lenny'd at the end of next year. It'll be interesting to see.

3DS will not see anywhere the success the DS did during it's peak.

[Prophecy2k]

If they price drop the console below the $150 mark then I can see a significant upswing in sales because a fair few existing console owners will also be rebuying consoles to replace faulty/old models.

I price drop will rescusitate the market. But it needs to be a significant one.

[minimoke]

Re:PS Vita Sales

I think Metal Gear Solid: HD Collection and Persona 4 will have an impact in the short term and LittleBigPlanet along with AC III:Liberation and COD: Black Ops Declassified in the medium to long term.

Also, I have to agree with babybumb for a hand held to sell >10K per week at a higher price point than PS3 without any killer apps is remarkable.

[Shifty Geezer]

It may be good numbers relatively, but its still a pretty dead platform. That userbase just isn't enough to attract developer interest, which means no games, which means no reason to buy the platform, especially when Vita is all about games. Sony need to demonstrate long term, signficant growth (or short term, massive growth) to stop the platform from fizzling out.

[fearsomepirate]

Originally Posted by Shifty Geezer

It may be good numbers relatively, but its still a pretty dead platform.

It's got a ways to go before it's beyond hope.

The Wii version of CD typically sells around 1m units. That's of course far less than any other platform, but a million sales on the Wii means profits, so there's no reason not to make them until they think they won't sell any more (I don't know how well MW3 is doing).

[Scott_Arm]

It's pretty hard to sell a million copies of a Vita game when the handheld is selling that slowly (worldwide sales hit 1.8 million in mid-May). And consider that making a Vita game is probably pretty expensive, because it has reasonable good hardware, demanding fairly high-quality games.

[patsu]

Vita could do better, but I'm actually surprised it moved 50K in retail given Sony's abssysal marketing and negative buzz. Reminds me of the early PS3 days.

I think Sony need to find a good product marketing guy/team for all its products. In Vita's case, Koller is "just" Playstation hardware marketing. All he cares about are unit sales. From his last interview, it seems that he can't see and communicate things from customers' perspective (e.g., Where is PS+ for Vita, a balanced and compelling view of exclusive Vita titles vs Cross-Play titles, simplifying Cross-Play, memory card should be part of every Vita package for at least first year, etc.). For letting all these happened, Koller's boss is to be blamed (Whoever he is), not just Koller. There is a gaping hole in Playstation Vita "platform" (hardware + software + experience + end user vision + business and pricing model) marketing.

I'm also interested to look at their DD sell-through. According to Sony, Vita DD sell through is several times higher than their expectation, and I do see Vita titles appearing in Sony's top X downloaded games despite the smaller base.

[Gitaroo]

just hope that COD vita will turn out to be a decent game being handled by a decent developer, like Raven or Eurocom or something, Or Treyarch B team that ported all the wii cod. Weeping out a Wii black ops 2 doesn't make much sense, don't think the one out now even sell half as much as the other systems. Might as well get them to do the vita one, or 3ds. Sony really need to rethink their strategy for vita, PS mobile apps need to come sooner with not just games, but adding new functionality to the system like drop box, ereader, DLNA, etc to keep it in line with current smart phones and tablets. It got the hardware to do it, I think it just the matter of softwares now.

[Shifty Geezer]

Sony's marketing certainly isn't what it was in the previous decade or two. They did recover somewhat with PS3 marketing. Their big problem with Vita IMO is what exactly are they going to sell and do they believe in their product? they are going to have to confidently tell the world "awesome games here" and hope that's enough, because they have little else to offer.

[patsu]

Originally Posted by Shifty Geezer

Their big problem with Vita IMO is what exactly are they going to sell and do they believe in their product? they are going to have to confidently tell the world "awesome games here" and hope that's enough, because they have little else to offer.

I think they do believe in Vita based on their sunken and on-going investments. Whatever on Vita today is actually quite impressive. I am having lot's of fun with the little thing. You can check out the LBP GAF thread for some ideas, but there are other interesting, small contents here and there. And I do now carry Vita where ever I go, together with the iPhone 4S.

From outside, I suspect the key problem (if it's only one) is Sony top execs' management approach. Perhaps they are tied down by strict budget these days, or perhaps they do not want to take attention from the money-making PS3 and PSP, or perhaps they are tied up by other secret projects, the thing is they don't seem to have time to QA their staff's Vita marketing output.

They can't package and communicate the values. Their marketing people seem to be very numbers-oriented. The decisions are made solely based on a baseline unit numbers, and from Sony's hardware perspective. There is absolutely no attempt to simplify and deliver the "Vita" idea to perform even better. Once the sales tracks their conversative baseline, they sit back. I am not sure if they have buffers in that baseline numbers too. ^_^

What their marketing people do a lot are events, sponsorships and Internet marketing. But those are very tactical. Without a guiding vision for Vita, they tend to be fire-and-forget.

They don't necessarily have to drop price (Actually, they should not. Not yet). But there are many things they could do cheaply by just being able to see things from our perspectives instead of following that graph. 8^d Many times, they did things without much thoughts, that came out sabotaging Vita's image.

Naturally these are seen from the outside, I have no idea if any of these are true. But I don't think I'm alone here.

[minimoke]

For a start, I think Sony needs to market the Vita as the "must have" accessory for PS3 owners. All top selling PS3 franchises should have a Vita companion app similar to DUST514. I can see a companion app for Starkhawk that allows players to use the Vita to control the building of battlements etc. to complete the whole build and battle gameplay.

Also, what about a PS Home client for Vita?

[patsu]

Originally Posted by minimoke

For a start, I think Sony needs to market the Vita as the "must have" accessory for PS3 owners. All top selling PS3 franchises should have a Vita companion app similar to DUST514. I can see a companion app for Starkhawk that allows players to use the Vita to control the building of battlements etc. to complete the whole build and battle gameplay.

They are doing that in a haphazard way. At the same time they have to balance exclusive Vita games vs ported PS3 titles. A lot of people prefer to buy the technically superior PS3 version instead of the more comfortable Vita version. In addition, they also don't want to pay twice for the same game.

For now, the Vita sales pitch looks like a work-in-progress. We have sporadic Cross-Play Vita and PS3 games similar to your suggestions, we also have a handful of exclusive Vita games. They just sent out a survey asking people if they like the idea of "pay-once-play-on-Vita-and-PS3" titles. As usual they are very shy to talk about Vita, to the point of messing up all Vita presentations to-date. ^_^



I happen to think that they should not position Vita as a WiiU competitor or a remote control pad. For one, Vita is much more expensive than a WiiU pad. It also can't compete with an iPad in terms of general functionality.

It can do more in the event of bad connection. It is not uncommon for WiFi to drop in my second bedroom. For Vita Cross-Play titles, they work even without a connection since they are also standalone games in their own right. For other Vita mobile titles, they only rely on a connection for posting scores and stats.

Vita is also more personal than a WiiU pad. I keep stuff I don't want my kid to touch on my Vita, so the PS3 stays clean. This can be addressed by using a multi-user OS for the game console next gen, but for now I think Vita is a much more personal experience than a pad.

Also, what about a PS Home client for Vita?

They should revamp Home first. Was going to post about Miiverse.

Vita has integrated a 2D Home-like experience into the OS itself. It's called LiveArea. Before you launch an app, you always enter the LiveArea of that app first. The LiveArea keeps notifications, updates, help, shortcuts, friends info specific to each game. Developers can customize their own LiveArea fully, like deploying a custom Home space.

It also does more than PS3. You can create a party and jump from game to game. It is currently optimized for a power-saving mode. So all network traffic are connectionless. You have to wait for it to reconnect after the session times out quickly.

You can also play music while you game or surf, if you like that sort of things.

[minimoke]

Originally Posted by patsu

I happen to think that they should not position Vita as a WiiU competitor or a remote control pad. For one, Vita is much more expensive than a WiiU pad. It also can't compete with an iPad in terms of general functionality.

Agreed, It's a fine balance between making Vita just an extended gamepad and creating a dedicated companion app that extends the experience of the PS3 game. Another example would be taking your Dark Souls (or other RPG) character from the PS3 game into ad-hoc battles on the Vita.

Originally Posted by patsu

They should revamp Home first. Was going to post about Miiverse.

Vita has integrated a 2D Home-like experience into the OS itself. It's called LiveArea. Before you launch an app, you always enter the LiveArea of that app first. The LiveArea keeps notifications, updates, help, shortcuts, friends info specific to each game. Developers can customize their own LiveArea fully, like deploying a custom Home space.

Yes, the LiveArea feature is not prompted enough I think.

[patsu]

Originally Posted by minimoke

Agreed, It's a fine balance between making Vita just an extended gamepad and creating a dedicated companion app that extends the experience of the PS3 game. Another example would be taking your Dark Souls (or other RPG) character from the PS3 game into ad-hoc battles on the Vita.

Yeah... I reckon the key is innovation. Core gaming seems boring these days because people are busy refining old ideas. Or they released stuff for casuals.

For Dark Souls and Demon's Souls, I would love it if they expand the PvP and co-op angle. I dream of the day where we can design our own monsters and throw them at the enemies.

Yes, the LiveArea feature is not prompted enough I think.

Yap. Near and LiveArea need more refinement on Vita.

Near should be simplified greatly.

LiveArea needs more umph.

The Vita UI should be less chatty. It has too many dialog now. Even the upcoming RemotePlay has too many dialogs and progress screens. Should learn from Apple. Bam ! AirPlay transfers over without any dialog.

[Mboojigga]

The same gripes that consumers had about the PSP are the same issues that the Vita is having today. It is bulky along with development cost and third party not seeing a return. The same message for the Vita being a PS3 in your pocket was the same failed message about the PSP being a PS2 in your pocket.

[patsu]

Originally Posted by Mboojigga

The same gripes that consumers had about the PSP are the same issues that the Vita is having today. It is bulky along with development cost and third party not seeing a return. The same message for the Vita being a PS3 in your pocket was the same failed message about the PSP being a PS2 in your pocket.

It is also possible that PSP underdelivered while the message was not completely wrong.

One of the problems is Vita *looks* similar to PSP. When in use, the dual sticks and touchscreen have completely transformed the PSP-like user experience. Playing PSP games on a Vita is very pleasant because of the OLED screen and intuitive controls. OTOH, I chugged my Peace Walker in the drawer after only 15 seconds on a PSP.

I didn't know PSP was marketed as a PS2 in my pocket. The portable PS2 message was not fulfilled because of bad implementation. At that time, PSP was more appealing because of its technical ability to play games, music and movies rather cheaply. Unfortunately, lack of software killed all these use cases. We had to write our own sync software. Sony Connect sucked big time. Plus Sony ignored PSP for a full 2 years while they focused on PS3.

Today on Vita, we have proper PSN integration, SEN together with mostly well-written apps. Games are much better implemented and we have a good selection just in 4 months (Thanks to PSP library and brave developers !). It's like day and night. There are still some Sony-ish rough edges, I hope Sony top execs use the apps themselves. The Twitter app is impressive even by iOS standard. I suspect that's because Shuhei is an avid Twitter user.

Development-wise, I think there are indeed open issues.

Playstation Mobile SDK is not launched yet, so low cost, cross-platform development is still being developed.

For exclusive Vita titles, until Sony port the Vita stack to other hardware, developers will have to rely on Sony's slow poke baseline forecast graph. Someone light a fire under Sony please~

[Shifty Geezer]

PSP has done okay, with over 60 million or whatever it is sold. Only Nintendo has managed those sort of handheld sales before. But PSP had added value as a portable media device in the days before smartphones. Sony hoping to carry on with a PSP approach was a terrible mistake IMO.