[Acert93]

Thread Purpose: The primary purpose of this post is to create a running feed, in chronological order, of rumors relating to Microsoft's successor to the Xbox 360 (aka Xbox 720). A secondary purpose to to begin disseminating the rumors and creating a list of confirmed and/or busted rumors. These goals will make parsing next-gen news easier and also serve as a handy tool to reflect on which news outlets have solid sources and those that do not.

Request: My initial list is rough and I should revise it with better credit to the primary sources. I will hopefully get to this in time, but it is a start. What I am requesting is that if there is a rumor you post it with (a) the date (b) the source (c) short summary, the headline works and (d) a link.

Discussing the rumors are ok. We have a dedicated thread for predicting the next gen technology for all platforms so please direct non-rumor related / general industry and platform predictions there... That said discussing how the rumors are shaping up for the Xbox 720 is ok here and will inevitably include some predicative analysis. But keep it focused: This thread is about the Xbox 720 only and is intended as a feed of sorting through rumors and leaks, not your personal wish-list/prediction for the upcoming console.


10/15/2008
Kotaku: Xbox 720 to provide "Forward Compatibility," make supported current gen games look much better
http://kotaku.com/5063787/rumor-next...ard-compatible

4/16/2011
Gamerzines: Crytek wants 8GB of RAM
http://www.gamerzines.com/playstatio...n-8gb-ram.html

4/20/2011
Kotaku: MS targeting 2014 for Xbox 720
http://kotaku.com/5794000/microsoft-...o-in-the-clear

7/7/2011
HardOCP: AMD wins all GPU contracts; Xbox 720 to have new IBM cell processor
http://hardocp.com/article/2011/07/0...sole_hardware/

7/19/2011
Tomshardware: AMD: Xbox 720 to Have Avatar-level Graphics
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/AMD...son,13095.html

7/20/2011
HardOCP: AMD gets Xbox 720 contract, rumoe of Fusion Bulldozer Variant
http://www.hardocp.com/news/2011/07/...ardware_update

8/15/2011
SemiAccurate: Xbox SoC (CPU+GPU and eDRAM) named “Obed”
http://semiaccurate.com/2011/08/15/n...name-and-date/

10/20/2011
Develop Online: Xbox 720 in 2013
http://www.develop-online.net/news/3...-for-Xbox-Next

11/7/2011
MS Nerd (IGN): Code Named Loop, Xbox 720 to be ARM based, smaller than Xbox 360; will have dedicated cores for graphics, AI, physics, networking, encryption, sensors
http://www.ign.com/articles/2011/11/...-than-xbox-360

11/9/2011
IGN: Xbox 720 coming holiday 2012
http://www.ign.com/articles/2011/11/...g-holiday-2012

11/14/2011
VG247: Xbox 720 to have 6 core CPU, AMD GPU
http://www.vg247.com/2011/11/14/repo...re-cpu-inside/

11/14/2011
Eurogamer: Microsoft plans two versions of its next Xbox - rumour
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/20...xt-xbox-rumour

12/5/2011
SemiAccurate: Xbox 720 chip taped out
http://semiaccurate.com/2011/12/05/e...ust-taped-out/

12/14/2012
CNET: Xbox 720 confirmed for 2013 launch
http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-57...x-design-boss/

1/18/2012
SemiAccurate: Xbox 720 Chips in production; SoC, PPC, and AMD GCN based
http://semiaccurate.com/2012/01/18/x...in-production/

1/19/2012
Fudzilla: Next Xbox to use a SoC code named “Oban,” in production; PPC based
http://www.fudzilla.com/processors/i...ct-run-is-real

1/24/2012
IGN: Xbox 720 Chipset in Production; “Oban” ready, no launch until 2013
http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/121/1217112p1.html

1/24/2012
IGN: Coming 2013, Xbox 720 Will Be Six Times as Powerful as Current Gen (6670 based, not GCN)
http://uk.ign.com/articles/2012/01/2...as-current-gen

1/25/2012
Eurogamer: Next Xbox GPU based on £50 Radeon HD 6670 card - report
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/20...70-card-report

1/20/2012
OXM: No Xbox 720 in 2012
http://www.oxmonline.com/microsoft-s...3-system-debut

1/25/2012
Kotaku: Xbox 720 to play Blu Ray; may block used games; Kinect 2; may be 6-8x faster than Xbox 360
http://kotaku.com/5879202/sources-th...oduce-kinect-2

2/10/2012
Eurogamer: Xbox 720 to use tablet like touch screen controller; UE4 running on next gen platform
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/20...troller-rumour

2/15/2012
Kotaku: Xbox 720 code named Durango
http://kotaku.com/5885539/the-next-x...e+nameddurango

2/28/2012
TheVerge: Crytek Twitter leak indicates Xbox 720 code name is Durango
http://www.theverge.com/tag/xbox-durango

3/8/2012
Gadgets: Xbox 720 shown in London with amazing graphics
http://www.gadgetsandgizmos.org/xbox...zing-graphics/

3/9/2012
MCV: Xbox 720 to have no disc drive, 2013 release
http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/exclu...xt-xbox/092534

3/9/2012
Joystiq: Battlefield 3 developer DICE says 2GB of memory not enough, needs more future proofing
http://www.joystiq.com/2012/03/09/ba...eam-specs-for/

3/14/2012
Kotaku: Obsidian cans dev team making Xbox 720 exclusive
http://kotaku.com/5893427/rumor-obsi...d-by-microsoft

3/16/2012
Tomshardware: No Xbox 720 at E3, 2012, or anytime soon
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Mic...ole,15043.html

4/2/2012
VG247: Dual South Island (GCN) GPUs not in SLI, 4-6 Core CPU, Blu Ray, Kinect, Always On Internet Required, 2013 release
http://www.vg247.com/2012/04/02/xbox...tcon-required/


Confirmed Rumors:
*

Busted Rumors:
* Xbox 720 hardware to be show at E3 2012
* Xbox 720 to be released in 2012

Modedit:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/di...latform-patent

[Brad Grenz]

Rumors like that make me wonder if MS isn't planning two discreet products right now. One a low cost, ARM based, diskless, casual focused Kinect box that'll be more like a Roku or AppleTV with a depth camera and lightweight gaming, and the other a traditional PowerPC, AMD GPU console with a blu-ray based optical drive for core gaming (that may also support all it's little brother's games, too).

[Shifty Geezer]

Yeah, that's crossed my mind two. Maybe a 2013 box and a 2014 uber-box.

[xexuxjy]

Excellent thread. wonder if we can do something to pair up all the conflicting ones (Blu-Ray v No DiscDrive etc) . Probably wouldn't be anything left if we did though

[menmau]

Great thread, I would like to see the ones who will be true.

[kagemaru]

Great thread, we should really do this for all next gen consoles.

Many of the rumors for the 360 were pretty spot on, so I'm curious to see how things play out next gen.

Originally Posted by Brad Grenz

Rumors like that make me wonder if MS isn't planning two discreet products right now. One a low cost, ARM based, diskless, casual focused Kinect box that'll be more like a Roku or AppleTV with a depth camera and lightweight gaming, and the other a traditional PowerPC, AMD GPU console with a blu-ray based optical drive for core gaming (that may also support all it's little brother's games, too).

I've thought about this too but wouldn't it make more sense to just use the existing 360's hardware with another redesign instead of going with ARM?

[Silent_Buddha]

Originally Posted by kagemaru

Many of the rumors for the 360 were pretty spot on, so I'm curious to see how things play out next gen.

Heh, so far though the rumors are all over the place.

Xbox next might have an IBM, AMD, or ARM processor. Hell, why not throw Intel in there as well?

They do all at least agree that it'll likely have an AMD GPU, however.

With the box still being at least 1.5-2.5 years away (I'm guessing they are targetting a holiday launch) at a minimum, it's easy enough to give devs performance targets and rough specs without actually giving out any hardware details.

Going digital only could make for a very compact console. Combine that with the increased focus on perf/watt the last few years and we could see the next Xbox be as small as the Wii or even smaller (diskless version).

Still, I'd be slightly surprised if they went DD only although I'd be quite happy myself if they did that.

Regards,
SB

[Acert93]

Originally Posted by kagemaru

Great thread, we should really do this for all next gen consoles.

I would nominate Patsu, Arwin, Shifty, or someone a little more plugged into the PS ecosystem for such. I had thought about starting one for the PS4 but I know I could not do it proper service.

[Shifty Geezer]

Originally Posted by Silent_Buddha

Going digital only could make for a very compact console. Combine that with the increased focus on perf/watt the last few years and we could see the next Xbox be as small as the Wii or even smaller (diskless version).

I can see a cheap (<$99) tiddly box, like a PS2Slim but smaller even, having quite a lot of mainstream appeal. Kinect would need work as the current design is kinda massive (why not include the console inside the camera for an all in one?!) but a cute box with downloaded games as a sort of party machine, with a lot of emphasis on sociability, would be a marketable product IMO. Not sure it'd necessarily stop existing XB owners defecting to a significantly more powerful rival, but I'd really expect a new full console for that market.

Originally Posted by Acert93

I would nominate Patsu, Arwin, Shifty, or someone a little more plugged into the PS ecosystem for such.

Every rumour I hear about all platforms comes from the hardware prediction thread. I ain't got a clue what's going on! (isn't PS4 an x86 Linux PC at the moment? )

[orangpelupa]

the bluray vs no disc drive is maybe

bluray -> for High end Box
no disc -> Kinect Box ?

[Acert93]

Plugged into the PS ecosystem as you are a PS owner, traditionally Sony enthusiast i.e. likely to be interested in and/or following PS4 news. I am interested in the PS4 (hey, if it is the only real next gen platform count me in!) but I can only do one thread, don't have a PS3, and don't frequent any PS sites. I get all my news from here and Gamersyde lol, the later being formerly Xboxyde. So I am not really hooked into the sources to get this stuff... and sadly I can barely follow my own epic next gen prediction thread :P Or is it: I can barely stomach it at times

[kagemaru]

Well there are only 2 or 3 PS4 rumors now anyways.

I remember the one claiming to have stronger specs than the xbox720 and the recent one where the PS4 will be built on an AMD CPU.

[bkilian]

Ooh, the best thing about this thread is realizing that combined, the rumors actually point to nothing in particular, so far they've covered every base except NVidia.

[Acert93]

Originally Posted by bkilian

Ooh, the best thing about this thread is realizing that combined, the rumors actually point to nothing in particular, so far they've covered every base except NVidia.

So much for that:

MS and Nvidia mend relationship, Xbox 720 to use Kepler Class GPU.

Now watch some site like Kotaku or N4G pick that up Btw, I have some internal conflict about certain... posters... commenting in this thread. It seems so... unfair, cruel, and slightly irritating. In a good way mind you

[Rangers]

Ehh, I was never under the impression bkillian was in a position at MS to know "stuff". Could be wrong

[jonabbey]

Ooh! So it's going to be nVidia, is it, bkillian?

[Acert93]

So much for baiting N4G to pick up the false rumor Rangers :P It is only fun mocking such sites because based on the current round of rumors they either are making things up OR MS has taken my signature seriously and decided to flame the fans with a lot of false stuff...

Unless...

We are getting a console with and without a Blu Ray drive and it has ARM, PPC, and x64 chips! It will have 8GB of memory but a lowly AMD Radeon HD 6670 class GPU. It will somehow be smaller and cheaper than the 360 and will perform a miracle launch in 2012 AND 2013--probably because the 2012 model will be recalled due to crazy defect issues caused by the heat generated from so many different CPUs in one box!

I could be remembering wrong but with the 360 we knew there were contracts with ATI and IBM but it really was the block diagram (that turned out to be correct) leaked and published by TeamXbox that got the ball rolling which really set legit parameters for what we were looking at.

[Rangers]

I could be remembering wrong but with the 360 we knew there were contracts with ATI and IBM but it really was the block diagram (that turned out to be correct) leaked and published by TeamXbox that got the ball rolling which really set legit parameters for what we were looking at.

Worth noting that schematic came out according to my google-fu as early as February 1st 2004, and thats just what I could find. Close to two years before the 360 actually released. Although, I dont think i initially believed the schematics back then and I'm sure I'd doubt any that came out this time for a while.

Worth noting for timeline purposes imo, with a lot of gaffers still nonsensically thinking 720 is going to come out in 2012 (though at least even that nonsense finally seems to be sinking in to them that it's not happening).

I'm starting to realize along with some others there really may be something to this MS kiboshing used games thing. It would probably be pretty ginormous if they could pull it off. I've never been a big used game buyer (I figure for 5 bucks difference I'd rather have the pristine new copy by far anyway, on new-ish games) but I did pick up Killzone 3 used recently, for older games its a pretty good value and i bet a lot of people do it almost exclusively.

My initial thought/worry would be if they ban used it will just push more rampant piracy perhaps. I'm not so sure though. Publishers would love it and might be inclined to support the Xbox more than other platforms.

[Shifty Geezer]

Originally Posted by Acert93

We are getting a console with and without a Blu Ray drive and it has ARM, PPC, and x64 chips! It will have 8GB of memory but a lowly AMD Radeon HD 6670 class GPU. It will somehow be smaller and cheaper than the 360 and will perform a miracle launch in 2012 AND 2013--probably because the 2012 model will be recalled due to crazy defect issues caused by the heat generated from so many different CPUs in one box!

The only logical explanation is a modular system where you buy separate CPU, GPU and chassis modules from official XBox parts and assemble your own.

[MarkoIt]

With current DRAM technology, there is no way they can ship more than 4GB. They won't use DDR3, and they won't use 16 GDDR5 chips.
There were rumor about Apple ditching drives unit this year, I don't see many problems in a driveless console, with a large drive, and some "solid-state" media to replace it.


I'm pretty sure, that this is how Microsoft E3 will go:
- 1 hour of boring Kinect stuff, and market results.
- The speaker: " And now, just a glimpse of the future of gaming. See you at E3 2013"
- 1m 30 s of Epic(MS-owned- top new IP running on Unreal Engine 4
- Done.

[Rangers]

Originally Posted by MarkoIt

With current DRAM technology, there is no way they can ship more than 4GB. They won't use DDR3, and they won't use 16 GDDR5 chips.
There were rumor about Apple ditching drives unit this year, I don't see many problems in a driveless console, with a large drive, and some "solid-state" media to replace it.


I'm pretty sure, that this is how Microsoft E3 will go:
- 1 hour of boring Kinect stuff, and market results.
- The speaker: " And now, just a glimpse of the future of gaming. See you at E3 2013"
- 1m 30 s of Epic(MS-owned- top new IP running on Unreal Engine 4
- Done.

I guess. Dont even see the point of that really.

Interestingly when MS responded to the no disc drive rumor they said: http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/exclu...xt-xbox/092534

“Xbox 360 has found new ways to extend its lifecycle like introducing the world to controller-free experiences with Kinect and re-inventing the console with a new dashboard and new entertainment content partnerships. We are always thinking about what is next for our platform and how to continue to defy the lifecycle convention. Beyond that we do not comment on rumors or speculation"

Whats interesting about it is they keep specifically hammering the long generation theme. Even if nobody seems to be listening. You could even surmise they're warning 720 isn't due soon by reading between the lines, though of course it could mean relatively nothing.

[AlStrong]

Originally Posted by Rangers

Whats interesting about it is they keep specifically hammering the long generation theme. Even if nobody seems to be listening. You could even surmise they're warning 720 isn't due soon by reading between the lines, though of course it could mean relatively nothing.

I've been saying set top box for awhile (WRT the 28nm SoC rumours & Oban). At least this article doesn't say "Xbox Next", rather... the next xbox. *ahem* I mean, FWIW, 360S will have been around for 3 years by mid-2013. It's about time they jumped onto the next major node for cost reduction.

[Nesh]

Originally Posted by Rangers

Whats interesting about it is they keep specifically hammering the long generation theme. Even if nobody seems to be listening. You could even surmise they're warning 720 isn't due soon by reading between the lines, though of course it could mean relatively nothing.

Nah, they just want to keep people interested as much as possible on the 360 before the next XBOX is officially announced. They sure dont want to lose current sales by preparing people for the next generation.

[Squilliam]

Maybe the issue with the rumours is that they are some combination of fantasy, idealism and trend fitting the past into the future, I.E. no nVidia because of Xbox 1 issues.

I believe the real question to answer is what the Xbox 360 will be doing in the future because the Xbox 3 will obviously be adjusted in relation to what will happen with the 360. Knowing the fate of the 360 would tell us pretty well where the direction the Xbox 3 will fit into the market. If there is a decent revision of the Xbox 360 would we then have to expect that the nextbox is two years distant due to the level of effort applied to the old legacy system?

One thing I do wonder is if the 360 isn't enough of a good thing and a decent Xbox 3 is too much of a good thing, then wouldn't the best/easiest answer to this problem be to improve the 360 to keep it relevant rather than bring the Xbox 3 down to a level to (attempt to) satisfy all aspects of the market?

[bkilian]

Originally Posted by jonabbey

Ooh! So it's going to be nVidia, is it, bkillian?

Well, I'm surprised there hasn't been a tegra or nvidia rumor yet. How about a PowerVR while we're at it?

Originally Posted by Acert93

Now watch some site like Kotaku or N4G pick that up Btw, I have some internal conflict about certain... posters... commenting in this thread. It seems so... unfair, cruel, and slightly irritating. In a good way mind you

Evil person, trying to generate buzz from a simple observation. Mind you, I also have some internal conflict about posting to threads that are about things I may, or may not, be working on. I would have stayed away from this one but the simple breadth of the rumors was too much for me not to comment on

Originally Posted by Rangers

Ehh, I was never under the impression bkillian was in a position at MS to know "stuff". Could be wrong

Well, that will have to remain a mystery, you will not see anything from me that has not been officially disclosed by MS. I like my position. I tend to check my posts twice before posting them to make sure I haven't said anything that can be misconstrued.