[martrox]

Replaced my 5900se with a 6800, and replaced one of my 9800Pros with a 6800GT........

Plan to still pick up a X800 - of some flavor - when I can(ie. when CompUSA gets em- they got the 6800/6800GT's yesterday!)

First impressions - on City of Heros: running at1280X960 4XFSAA/16 AF as compared to the 9800P at 4X/6X/4XT FSAA and 8 AF. 6800GT is damn fast, thus much smoother. The 9800P sometimes slows down perceptably. The 6800GT also does much better job with textures, which are rock solid. The 9800P has issues with flashing textures and little white dots & lines between textures. However, at full quality, the 6800 suffers from mucho texture crawl. And, as far as FSAA goes, well, theres absolutely no comparison..... the 6800GT at 4X sucks rocks compared to the 9800P at 4x...not to mention 6X and 4XT......

Again, this is a first impression on one game....course it's the game I'm currently playing! And it just solidifies in my mind that neither nVidia or ATI has "the" card to own.... Now, if you could just add get ATI's FSAA with nVidia's textures, lose some of the texture crawl .... well, that's my pipe dream ATM.......

[digitalwanderer]

Originally Posted by martrox

as far as FSAA goes, well, theres absolutely no comparison..... the 6800GT at 4X sucks rocks compared to the 9800P at 4x...not to mention 6X and 4XT......

Really! Now that I find interesting, everyone was saying that nVidia's AA was on par with ATi's.

You're saying that is NOT the case? Is it that noticeable?

[5150 Joker]

Originally Posted by digitalwanderer

Really! Now that I find interesting, everyone was saying that nVidia's AA was on par with ATi's.

You're saying that is NOT the case? Is it that noticeable?

I think he's blowing it a bit out of proportion. I just picked up a 6800 GT yesterday and while the Radeon's 4x AA does look better, it isn't readily noticeable. I will say that the 2x AA for the Radeon is quite a bit better though since I noticed a lot more shimmering with the 6800 GT at 2x. The AF for the nvidia cards looks better in contrast so its a trade off.

[digitalwanderer]

Can you see shimmers or jaggies with nVidia's AA? That's the big thing with me, the first time I tried an R3xx I just fell in love with how nice it was to game with good AA & AF and there just ain't no going back I've found.

That's what the 5900 FX I got showed me, that nVidia's AA from last gen just was noticeably awful to me in games....I'm trying to find out if this new generation is not just better, but better enough to qualify up to my standards. (I'm not trying to be picky or bash even though it might sound like it a bit, it's just the thing that I want to know most about these next gen cards!!!)

[Florin]

And so it begins..

I'm betting the next switcher will be uhmm.. either jvd or zabaglione

muahaha 8)

[Randell]

Originally Posted by Florin

And so it begins..

I'm betting the next switcher will be uhmm.. either jvd or zabaglione

muahaha 8)

jvd has both in his house already

[cthellis42]

So... what are you doing with those old, out-of-date cards now, martrox? Ol' buddy, ol' pal!

[martrox]

The difference is not what most sites seem to indicate...... It's very noticable. Granted, I'm fairly sensitive to jaggies & texture crawl. DW, you will notice it. BTW, as I originally posted, I will be also getting anX800 of some kind...... If you are in the position, it's alway nice to try out multiple products.

Joker, I really don't feel I'm blowing it out of proportion.... it kind of smacks you in the face. There's no doubt the difference in detail - which is something that the 6800's have more of - is also the reason for the texture crawl. Probably a difference in LOD. Of course it's a tradeoff. I'd rather have a bit less detail and not have the texture crawling. As far as the FSAA is concerned, maybe the difference won't be as noticable in other games..... I'll let you know. COH is pretty tough on FSAA...... if there are any differences, you will notice them big time.

[digitalwanderer]

Originally Posted by martrox

The difference is not what most sites seem to indicate...... It's very noticable. Granted, I'm fairly sensitive to jaggies & texture crawl. DW, you will notice it.

Damn it, I KNEW it! Thanks Martrox, I had a feeling it was glossed over looking at the resolutions they were benching at. (It's a lot harder to notice bad AA at 16x12 than at 10x7, I game at 10x7)

BTW, as I originally posted, I will be also getting anX800 of some kind...... If you are in the position, it's alway nice to try out multiple products.

I couldn't agree more, I still don't regret buying that 5900. If I hadn't, I wouldn't have known what the difference was.

There just ain't nothing better than comparing 'em first hand yourself.

[martrox]

Spent this morning in COH, on both Vidcards(6800GT & 9800P) at exactly the same settings 1152X864, 4X FSAA & 16X AF. I may have been a bit premature about the texture ailising...... Looks like I was actually seeing the FSAA on the 6800! Yes, it's that evident, compared to the 9800P! The texture quality on the 6800 is much better than the 9800, no doubt. But, if you are sensitized to crawling jaggies, then the difference in FSAA is very evident - to the point that some (moi? ) could actually think they are seeing texture ailising!

Some (Joker?) may feel that it's a good and fair tradeoff. Myself, I don't. I see every line in the game that's not at the optimal viewing angle crawl on the 6800GT. It's easier for me to deal with slightly less texture quality than to see so many things moving around on my screen. On the 9800P there's some of this, but the differences are like night and day. One takes away from immersion just a bit, the other is just plain annoying! And this is at 4X FSAA on both cards. At 6X or 4XT it's even more pronounced. However, the 9800P really doesn't have the power to run at 6X/4XT without dropping the texture quality/AF down a bit.

Like I said before, this is just one game.......

[trinibwoy]

I am inclined to place more faith in the gazillion reviews than in one forum member who in the past has shown favor to one particular IHV's offerings. Even the oh so highly regarded Beyon3d review makes no mention of such shimmering.

Maybe jvd can chime in here with his impartial observations.

[martrox]

trinibwoy, if you go back and see just what I've said, it was never(well, very seldom) about the hardware, primarily about how nVidia does business. And it's never stopped me from buying nVidia - I've got 4 nVidia videocards and 5 nVidia chipset motherboards compared to 2 ATI videocards. And remember, I'm only saying this about one game, so you may take it with a grain of salt....as you should with anything you see on the net. I can supply pic's that give you an idea of just what I'm saying...... if someone can host. It is very obvious......... In fact, I'll email you the pic's, so you can comment on them, ok?

[karlotta]

Originally Posted by trinibwoy

I am inclined to place more faith in the gazillion reviews than in one forum member who in the past has shown favor to one particular IHV's offerings. Even the oh so highly regarded Beyon3d review makes no mention of such shimmering.

Maybe jvd can chime in here with his impartial observations.

Im not. the Gazillion reviews? more like 30.. no more like 17.... and most do not have the card for very long if more than few hours.... Most have to play it cool or not get a card again.... So most reveiws(preveiws) sux. Truly sux. Im sure you know that. The real test is when ppl like Matrox have both cards... and have had many cards for years (like me) and tell you what is going on for REAL. So go out and buy a card.. then report back.

[martrox]

I've tried to take screenshots using the ingame ability....and it just doesn't show the difference......... I am sorry about that!

[digitalwanderer]

Originally Posted by trinibwoy

I am inclined to place more faith in the gazillion reviews than in one forum member who in the past has shown favor to one particular IHV's offerings. Even the oh so highly regarded Beyon3d review makes no mention of such shimmering.

My question is what was their display set to while gaming. Most of the reviews I read all included a line like, "but with this mega-monster next generation card, who would game at anything less than 1600x1200? So that is primarily what we tested with...", or something similar.

Who would? Me!

I got a 17" monitor I really like, but the highest it can do is 1280x1024 @ 100Hz for gaming....the 1600x1200 only has a refresh rate of 60Hz, which I just hate.

So I still game at 1024x768 and AA is important and noticeable as hell at that resolution, it can make or break the gaming experience for me.

Most sites didn't seem to test/game at lower resolutions to see what the AA was like, I just bugged Hanners to do just that for me and I'm really interested to see what he finds. (He also kind of thought I was nuts, with the "Why would you want to game at that rez with this card?!?!" attitude. )

[Randell]

Originally Posted by digitalwanderer

I got a 17" monitor I really like, but the highest it can do is 1280x1024 @ 100Hz for gaming....the 1600x1200 only has a refresh rate of 60Hz, which I just hate.

So I still game at 1024x768 and AA is important and noticeable as hell at that resolution, it can make or break the gaming experience for me.

Most sites didn't seem to test/game at lower resolutions to see what the AA was like, I just bugged Hanners to do just that for me and I'm really interested to see what he finds. (He also kind of thought I was nuts, with the "Why would you want to game at that rez with this card?!?!" attitude. )

I hate that as well. I would have thought, certainly in Europe, the most common rez's were 1024x768 and 1280x1024 (what with everybody I know buying an LCD in the last year). Certainly in UK hardly anybody I know has ever owned a 19" or 21" monitor (too expensive at first, too big now).

[trinibwoy]

Originally Posted by martrox

trinibwoy, if you go back and see just what I've said, it was never(well, very seldom) about the hardware, primarily about how nVidia does business. And it's never stopped me from buying nVidia - I've got 4 nVidia videocards and 5 nVidia chipset motherboards compared to 2 ATI videocards. And remember, I'm only saying this about one game, so you may take it with a grain of salt....as you should with anything you see on the net. I can supply pic's that give you an idea of just what I'm saying...... if someone can host. It is very obvious......... In fact, I'll email you the pic's, so you can comment on them, ok?

Yeah that will be cool. I'll PM you my address. Thx.

[trinibwoy]

Originally Posted by Randell

I hate that as well. I would have thought, certainly in Europe, the most common rez's were 1024x768 and 1280x1024 (what with everybody I know buying an LCD in the last year). Certainly in UK hardly anybody I know has ever owned a 19" or 21" monitor (too expensive at first, too big now).

Yeah although I have a 19" monitor that's capable of 1600x1200 at 85Mhz I still usually max out at 1280x1024 with AA.

And point well taken that review sites don't have the time (or desire) to actually play the games that they benchmark. Thanks for the observation martrox, sorry for jumping down your throat

[martrox]

Not a problem, trinibwoy. My problem with high rez is that the text onscreen begins to disappear! These 53 year old eyes can't read such small stuff.... and playing games with a magnafying glass kinda sucks ! I find 1152X864 seems to be the sweet point for me.

Understand that this is one game, and FSAA in it is difficult at best. I'll get to more games in the future, and if I find the results different, then I will post it. Also understand that , other that FSAA, these cards are pretty incredible. I've never owned a card I could throw everything to the max and not have a slowdown somewhere..... And the texturing ability of the card - in this game - is way beyond what the 9800P does. I get none of the texture flickering that I got on the 9800P. The real killer card, though, is the 6800 for $299.00, well worth the $50.00 difference compared to the 9800P ATM.....

I guess the thing is, that I want it all...... greedy old bastard that I am!

Oh! And for those interested, it's a PNY 6800GT, and when allowing the drivers to dectect the "optimal" frequencies (using coolbits) it runs totally solid at 415/1.12..... faster that stock ultra!

[Randell]

Originally Posted by martrox

it's a PNY 6800GT, and when allowing the drivers to dectect the "optimal" frequencies (using coolbits) it runs totally solid at 415/1.12..... faster that stock ultra!

If using 1280x1024 is the 4x difference minimised?

How is the noise and heat?

I'm considering a GT.

[ChrisRay]

First impressions - on City of Heros: running at1280X960 4XFSAA/16 AF as compared to the 9800P at 4X/6X/4XT FSAA and 8 AF. 6800GT is damn fast, thus much smoother. The 9800P sometimes slows down perceptably. The 6800GT also does much better job with textures, which are rock solid. The 9800P has issues with flashing textures and little white dots & lines between textures. However, at full quality, the 6800 suffers from mucho texture crawl. And, as far as FSAA goes, well, theres absolutely no comparison..... the 6800GT at 4X sucks rocks compared to the 9800P at 4x...not to mention 6X and 4XT......

This is a bug with the 6800 and City of Heroes. The texture crawling is something nvidia is aware of and they are currently working on a fix.

[martrox]

Good to hear, Chris Ray.... glad to know I'm not imagining things. Randall, I've upped the rez to 1280X960 and it does help. I really do like this card, I'm now running 425/1.15..... and my water cooling block is sitting on the table next to me....begging to be installed!

[Richteralan]

Now wish i have enough money to get a 6800....

[martrox]

Also, Randall, the card is quiet, and not overly hot......I'd estimate is pretty close to the 9800P on both accounts......

[ChrisRay]

Originally Posted by martrox

Good to hear, Chris Ray.... glad to know I'm not imagining things. Randall, I've upped the rez to 1280X960 and it does help. I really do like this card, I'm now running 425/1.15..... and my water cooling block is sitting on the table next to me....begging to be installed!

Oh no problem, I originally reported this bug and I can assure you something is being done about it