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-   -   The NEXT LAST R600 Rumours & Speculation Thread (http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=39173)

Jawed 01-May-2007 18:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3dilettante (Post 979895)
The nebulous state of where the register file was being kept intrigued me. I thought perhaps the UTDP could be used to creatively rename register fills to make them more amenable to a vector fetch.

Hmm, yeah, I didn't really notice how the register file has gone AWOL in the R600 diagram.

Considering how intriguing this patent application is:

Method and apparatus for managing tasks in a multiprocessor system

on the way it separates "memory" (which I interpret as registers) from execution processors (which can be ALU pipes or TU pipes) there may be a good reason...

Jawed

Dalton Sleeper 01-May-2007 19:24

That NDA thing, will it expire the 2nd or the 14th?

Quite a time diff to China:
US (GMT-8?)
Sweden (GMT+1)
China (GMT+8 or 9?)

mao5 01-May-2007 19:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bjorn (Post 979906)
Well, if the XT would kick the 8800 GTX's ass, and the Ultra. Why sell it for 400$ ?

And sorry, i don't buy the "to gain back marketshare" thing.

I buy

Ailuros 01-May-2007 19:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by mao5 (Post 979946)
I buy

Don't sell it then :P

Bob 01-May-2007 19:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Farhan
Hehe, i was allowed 4 metal layers.

Pfft, you young whipper snappers and your fancy tools. We had to do with a single metal layer! Let's just say it made place and route very interesting. And by interesting, I mean unnecessarily tedious.

Quote:

Originally Posted by silent_guy
Switching from defense to offense: other than some non-system related implementation details, is there a single advantage of a ring over a crossbar?

Considering that there are just up to 4 ring stops in R5xx and R6xx, wouldn't a point-to-point bus be even better? In terms of wiring/power, it's not that much worse than a ring, and it does have the advantage of drastically reducing the scheduling complexity, latency and additional buffering.

Of course, that doesn't scale well above 4 points, but then again, we haven't seen the "ring bus" do better yet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by _xxx_
But why the 512-bit bus then?

Because efficient non-power-of-2 memory addressing is hard. So if you need more than 256 bits, your next bus width becomes 512-bits. All IMHO. It would be interesting to see if anyone can write a test to max out the bandwidth on R600, given the rumours of 16 ROPs RBEs and 16 Textures.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jawed
IBM went with a ring bus for Cell, hugely motivated by simplicity of implementation.

Cell also has 9 "stops" on their ring. That's somewhat more than 4.

Bob 01-May-2007 19:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jawed
I dunno. 10s of clocks?

Here's a question for you: At 750 MHz, given a ~21x21mm chip, how many clocks does it take to carry a signal to the other side of the chip and back, ignoring transistor delays? Ok, now add some shmoo factor for transistor delays. I think you'd find that your 10s of clocks is closer to ten 10s than one 10s.

CarstenS 01-May-2007 19:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3dilettante (Post 979832)
Perhaps by omission or on purpose, the diagram doesn't show it being divided up into clusters like the rest of the chip, which might mean some shenanigans are going on in instruction scheduling and register fetch.

I know it's not exactly on topic, but i remember some pictures (which i took) from the R580-launch, where you could see the division of the so called ultra-thread dispatch processor into 12 sections. IIRC this separation was gone in the later-to-be-spread PDFs.

Maybe marketing has improved - surely they have had more time to revise their presentations this time.

edit:
I'm sorry, obviously this info has already been posted and there seemed to be some other version of the diagrams floating around, in which that separation was still visible.

Farhan 01-May-2007 19:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob (Post 979960)
Here's a question for you: At 750 MHz, given a ~21x21mm chip, how many clocks does it take to carry a signal to the other side of the chip and back, ignoring transistor delays? Ok, now add some shmoo factor for transistor delays. I think you'd find that your 10s of clocks is closer to ten 10s than one 10s.

100 clocks from one side of the chip to the other just for wiring? Sounds really slow to me!

Razor1 01-May-2007 19:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dalton Sleeper (Post 979945)
That NDA thing, will it expire the 2nd or the 14th?

Quite a time diff to China:
US (GMT-8?)
Sweden (GMT+1)
China (GMT+8 or 9?)


NDA's usaully ignore time zones.

Subtlesnake 01-May-2007 20:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bjorn (Post 979906)
Well, if the XT would kick the 8800 GTX's ass, and the Ultra. Why sell it for 400$ ?

Because they're filling in the gap with the XTX?

nAo 01-May-2007 20:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob (Post 979956)
Cell also has 9 "stops" on their ring. That's somewhat more than 4.

Just a minor correction: Cell has 12 "stops" (8 SPUs + PPU + MEMController + 2*FLEXIO)

fellix 01-May-2007 20:24

There are actually 5 stops on the bus: four memory partitions + the host interface (PCIe). ;)

Sound_Card 01-May-2007 20:58

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b2...79b190eac6.jpg

HIS is ready to go.:grin:

Jawed 01-May-2007 21:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob (Post 979960)
Here's a question for you: At 750 MHz, given a ~21x21mm chip, how many clocks does it take to carry a signal to the other side of the chip and back, ignoring transistor delays? Ok, now add some shmoo factor for transistor delays. I think you'd find that your 10s of clocks is closer to ten 10s than one 10s.

How much latency for data going through a crossbar, if it comes in one side of the chip but needs to be over on the other side?

Put another way, what proportion of the latency is wire delay and how much is architecture-specific logic? Crossbar versus ring bus.

Jawed

Arnold Beckenbauer 01-May-2007 22:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sound_Card (Post 980003)

Is it a Lamda logo on the box? :grin:

I don't believe, a new graphics card like HD2900 will be bundled with an old game like HL2 or HL2 Ep. 1 without some graphical updates.
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=39699
http://www.gameinformer.com/News/Sto...1818.53359.htm
Quote:

For those who recently upgraded their PC video cards to support DX10, you’ll be happy to know that both Episode Two and Team Fortress 2 will support the advanced technology of these cards, even if the PC is running Windows XP. On the low-end front, Valve still plans on supporting PCs that can only run DX8 applications. Valve’s attempting to also support DX7, but couldn’t confirm if it’d go back that far with technology

tEd 01-May-2007 22:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arnold Beckenbauer (Post 980031)
Is it a Lamda logo on the box? :grin:

I don't believe, a new graphics card like HD2900 will be bundled with an old game like HL2 or HL2 Ep. 1 without some graphical updates.
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=39699
http://www.gameinformer.com/News/Sto...1818.53359.htm

Ep2 is bundled

Kaotik 01-May-2007 22:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arnold Beckenbauer (Post 980031)
Is it a Lamda logo on the box? :grin:

I don't believe, a new graphics card like HD2900 will be bundled with an old game like HL2 or HL2 Ep. 1 without some graphical updates.
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=39699
http://www.gameinformer.com/News/Sto...1818.53359.htm

How exactly did they plan to support "advanced features of these cards" under XP? Last time I checked HL2 didn't support OpenGL (and I don't know if there's even extensions for the "DX10 level" stuff yet?)

anaqer 01-May-2007 22:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by tEd (Post 980033)
Ep2 is bundled

*giggles*

Dalton Sleeper 01-May-2007 22:30

When i bought 9800XT I got a HL2 coupon :wink: and another one when I upgraded to X800XT PE :roll: , then they released the game :???:

allnighter 01-May-2007 22:31

More likely a coupon is attached. EP2 is not coming that soon.

Arnold Beckenbauer 01-May-2007 22:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by tEd (Post 980033)
Ep2 is bundled

Ep. 2 comes when? :wink:
There is another speculation in HL2.Net forums: http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?t=123608

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaotik (Post 980035)
How exactly did they plan to support "advanced features of these cards" under XP? Last time I checked HL2 didn't support OpenGL (and I don't know if there's even extensions for the "DX10 level" stuff yet?)

Read my speculation in the linked thread.:smile:

Anarchist4000 01-May-2007 22:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by fellix (Post 979988)
There are actually 5 stops on the bus: four memory partitions + the host interface (PCIe). ;)

Or are there 6 stops? Your 5 plus 1 for UVD.

Kaotik 01-May-2007 22:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arnold Beckenbauer (Post 980047)
Read my speculation in the linked thread.:smile:

If the "supported advanced features" would indeed be fp16 filtering + msaa on fp16-rt's, i don't know if i should laugh or cry :lol:

Russell 01-May-2007 22:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by allnighter (Post 980045)
More likely a coupon is attached. EP2 is not coming that soon.

Yeah, the way I heard is that it is a coupon, just like last time.

Except this time I don't see Ep2 being delayed for the third (fourth?) time. I mean...it's only Ep2, not an entirely new game.

Regardless, getting that for free makes that R600 that much more tempting.

Kaotik 01-May-2007 22:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anarchist4000 (Post 980050)
Or are there 6 stops? Your 5 plus 1 for UVD.

Wouldn't audio department want one too?


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