View Full Version : OK so I did it, I bought a Mac. Now... How do I...?
Splurged for the 13" Macbook Pro i7, because it's just too sexy to pass up. I'm really rather pleased with it so far, except you really can't game on it while under battery power.
Macos is........weeeell, different shall we say, compared to windows. :lol: It does many things in a slightly other way, not because it's neccessarly better compared to how windows accomplishes the same thing, but I suspect, simply to NOT be like windows. It makes performing certain tasks feel wonky, at least to me. For example, the system settings applets have no cancel buttons in their GUIs. All changes seem to apply instantaneously, so if I mess around to familiarize myself and fuck up I must remember what stuff it was I changed and change it all back before I exit the applet.
Double-clicking a window title bar in a MS OS maximizes the window. In macos it minimizes it... I'm sure Steve Jobs demanded this change and whipped his software monkeys to code it up just to screw with people who are used to MS windows environments. :lol:
The three "streetlights" buttons (which microsoft copied verbatim from macos) sit on the left side of windows title bars where vista/W7's sit on the right. Didn't macos have them on the right side also, at least initially? I can't remember, OSX has existed for some 10-odd years now after all.
Further, there's no alt-tab hotkey to flip between programs. No, that's something microsoft dreamt up (for their taskswitching win 3.x megacrap no less), including THAT in macos despite hundreds of millions of people knowing about that key combination would taint our pretty shiny macs! ...Or something... (Yes, I know it's command-tab... There's also that wonky exposé thingy - which I don't quite get the point of - by dragging 4 fingers on the touchpad, which I find useless really because all windows revert to their original positions as soon as I lift even one finger off the pad!
And something which struck me as odd was there's no installer wizards in macos that I've encountered so far - and consequently, no uninstaller wizards either! :shock: I never really liked these (they weren't neccessary on the Amiga which is what I used until I bought a PC), but for better or worse they exist in MS environs, and I expected them to be there just becuase they ought to...and instead, I'm greeted by a window that asks me to drag a program icon onto a folder icon. ...And uninstallation is done by just dropping the application icon onto the trashcan icon? IT'S THAT SIMPLE??!?!?! Omg not enough wizard mouse clickxzz wtfbbq! Seriously now, this rather confused me initially, and I guess it still does. I just don't completely trust a system where I don't get to see or control exactly where stuff ends up on my harddrive. But oh well. It seems to work!
There's also a LOT less stuff included in macos compared to vista or W7. Well, you get a buncha applications, none of which I have any use for really, but the number of auxiliary functions included in macos isn't as extensive. You can tell Apple may be bigger in profit and name recognition these days, but they're not bigger when it comes to actual programming power. MS is still king of software, no doubts there.
I also can't figure out for the life of me how to make my mac see my PC on my own internal network, and the other way around. Don't they share some kind of networking standard, or do I need 3rd party software to make things work?
Mini hardware review:
I dig this thing, totally. It's a really sweet laptop, solid as hell, with good attention to detail. For example, sticking in an Apple wired headset into the headphones socket and you'll find that the mic and the remote buttons all work perfectly. And that magsafe charger connector is just a stroke of genius isn't it. Heck, all connectors should be like that! (And lucky us we don't use floppies anymore...)
There's no creaky wobbly plastic to be found here, no cheap, sloppy pop-out optical drive, no low-fi LCD screen... Speaking of screen, yes it's really glossy, but I like that. It improves blacks and makes colors "pop" in a way that matte screens just can't do. Yeah, reflections can be a real bitch, but I'll just move my orientation or location to compensate. If the surroundings are bright a matte screen shows reflections also, and you lose visual fidelity at all times. I still prefer glossy with the inherent downsides, thankyou.
The keyboard feels great to type on - for a laptop keyboard anyway - the keys are slightly offset from a regular desktop board which throws off my l33t muscle-memory-based index-fingers-only typing skillz somewhat, but it's not so bad as it's been with some other keyboards. The feel of the MBP's keyboard is really sweet. The keys are sufficiently firm and responsive, with a sufficient amount of resistance. A great feat, considering their very limited stroke of just a couple mm. My Logitech G15's buttons have at easily twice the stroke length and then some!
As good as the keyboard is, the "magic" mouse is somewhat of a letdown in comparison. It's more defined by what it can't do than what it can; it doesn't allow both primary mouse buttons to be held down simultaneously, doesn't have a middle-click at all, and can't emulate the forwards and back thumb buttons on modern mice either; the swipe gestures that accomplish the same thing in safari aren't recognized by other, non-productive (read: games) software. :( Also, due to its flat shape it's not particulary ergonomic to use, although due to being flat makes it fit easily into the snug carrying case I bought...and it LOOKS so nice, doesn't it? :roll: *facepalms self* Oh well. Live and learn eh!
On the plus side, due to being bluetooth it doesn't need any dongles eating up precious USB ports and sticking out the side where they can catch on stuff and break off/damage the connectors, just pair it and it's ready to use. Due to being apple's own mouse and thus having OS integration it also goes to sleep when you put the mac into sleep mode and wake up along with the computer afterwards, which is pretty neat and saves on batteries; no need to manually power it off like with other wireless mice.
The machine's certainly got the grunt for reasonably well-performing graphics (if you dial down the settings appropriately), but that Intel sandy bridge chip just sucks down the juice like crazy, roughly speaking I'd judge consumption at somewhere around 1-2% battery PER MINUTE of running World of Warcraft. And that's with the CPU loaded to less than 50%. It might turbo up under those circumstances and thus produce a similar amount of wattage compared to what it would do if loaded to 100% on the CPU, I'm not sure what happens exactly since I don't know of any CPU-Z/GPU-Z-like utilities for the mac to check with. Most likely there aren't any.
That's with all settings at "fair" btw (many of them simply won't go any higher), although it doesn't really make a big impact on the visuals anyway, not on such a small screen. View distance takes a hit, that's the most obvious difference. Framerates hover at 20-30ish mostly; the magic mouse makes movement and steering clunky, but it's sufficient for some casual grinding for sure. Without a full keyboard, or at least a proper 5-button mouse any sort of high-performance gameplay like running dungeons is rather out of the question, and god forbid any sort of PvP!
I'll try out some Torchlight later when it has finished downloading Starcraft 2. Maybe that game is more suited to playing on the move; its graphics sure is way less demanding that's for sure. Also, since it has steamcloud support it saves character progress automatically, which is hella neat methinks.
I ran my WoW test by turning wifi off and piping a 3G data internet connection through my iPhone, with a bluetooth network link between the two devices to try and be a bit realistic as if I was out and about even though I was sitting at home... The BT link didn't affect pings noticeably, but didn't really help either of course; 3G cellular latency is still pretty crap any way you slice it.
Oh, and it gets WARM after a while... Not that that should surprise anyone I suppose; the metal casing is rather conductive of heat. In all probably a positive thing, as more heat reaching the outer surface means less heat inside. Even so it got warm enough towards the end for me to feel it with my hand on the underside of my laminated fiberboard desk...
Anyhow, very fun toy this is. It's going to be fun to be able to take it with me on buses, trains and whatnot and compute on the move! *geeks out at the mere thought*
command-tab to switch between apps (like alt-tab)
streetlights haven't move
Don't have to foreground a windows to type in it (yay!)
You don't need installer and uninstaller as OS X doesn't use DLLs or a registry - Application.app is really a directory with all the support file in it...want to uninstall it? Delete it. Done. Far superior to Windows.
My macs and PCs have no issues "seeing each other" - on the mac go to network settings->advanced->wins and make sure you have your workgroup named.
What other auxiliary functions are you looking for? OSX is Unix underneath so rest assured they are there...better back-up software than windows too...
My only major dislikes are window resize from bottom-right only and quirkiness of other small things like delete vs. recycle files. Then again I can just open a terminal window and use the command line for these things.
But seriously, if there's some functionality you're having issue with, let me know. I use W7/Linux and OS X on a daily basis and definitely prefer OS X.
Don't forget to bootcamp it for gaming...oh and there is a steam client if you want to play some valve games.
also, for app switching try a four-finger swipe left-right or up down.
There's a lot to learn...but learn to love no installer/uninstaller.
Couple other things came to mind:
1. scan lifehacker's archives for OSX tips and software
2. read the sites that come up when you search "best os x apps" or "best free os x apps"
(like this one: http://www.bestmacsoftware.org/)
3. appreciate boot times - my c2d macbook pro boot up faster than my i7-2600k, SSD W7Pro machine.
:)
Some applications do have an installation wizard, such as XCode. They don't have uninstall functions, though. For most applications, yes, you can simply delete the application folder (which looks like an icon), but for some it's much more difficult because they may spread over a lot places, such as XCode (again).
Some usages has been changed too. For example, on my older Macs, Expose worked like, one key for showing all windows, another for showing all windows of current application, and another for showing the background. However, in newer Macs with those new keyboards, it has only one Expose key and you have to use control-expose to show windows of current application and command-expose to show the background (option-expose for settings, by the way).
I also had to look on the internet to find out how to take a screenshot. It turned out that taking screenshot is a multi-key operation on MacOS X but it's more flexible. On Windows, basically you have two choices: take the whole screen, or take the whole window. Otherwise you'll have to run an application to take an arbitrary area. On MacOS X, taking arbitrary area is built-in so there's no need to run another application, although the key-binding is a staggering "command-control-shift-4" or something like that. The ability to directly save the captured screenshot into a file is a bonus, though.
Talking about taking screenshots, one thing mysteriously lacking on MacOS X is a built-in MS Paint-like application. It makes the job of occasionally annotating a screenshot or a picture very annoying. Right now I use Autodesk's SketchBook Express, which is free, but quite a bit more complex than what I actually want.
There are small, free apps for simpler screenshots.
Captain Chickenpants
16-May-2011, 13:45
Command tab is equivelant to alt-tab alternatively Expose is very nice.
I don't like the traffic lights. Their behaviour can change depending on the app, Tty the amber light in iTunes.
I like the install/uninstall of applications just by drag and drop, but it is irritating that some apps then leave bits of themselves in your Library.
Free OSX applications tend to feel better quality than free applications on Windows/Linux. I suspect because anyone wanting to do Mac development has a nice development environment ready to go out of the box.
(Linux community take note, it is possible to do a good frontend on gdb, so get it sorted!).
I liked the lack of annoying slapsh screens,popups and things in your taskbar. Most windows apps seem to want to install 'quick launch' apps etc. which I find annoying. OSX doesn't seem to do that.
So far none of the Major OS's have got everything right, but they are now all at the state where I don't mind using them (I used to really dislike how fiddly Linux was).
Simon F
16-May-2011, 14:00
(Linux community take note, it is possible to do a good frontend on gdb, so get it sorted!)..
Are you saying there is something better than DDD? !
I'd like to point out that any decent wireless mouse will go to sleep when not in use and then turn back on when moved. My last five wireless mice(WHY DO MICE DIE SO FAST) did that, and my current one does that as well.
I us and MS ergo 4000 brown box keyboard and a logitech mouse when my mac is at my desktop. Not fond of Apple keyboards and mice at all...plus I need the three buttons for linux.
3. appreciate boot times - my c2d macbook pro boot up faster than my i7-2600k, SSD W7Pro machine.
:)
Who boots his computer? :cool:
Who boots his computer? :cool:
I don't boot my server, but my W7 rig is my gaming machine and I travel - alot - at which point I shutdown everything but the server (which is a MythTV PVR).
Then there are those little things called "new drivers" :)
Blazkowicz
16-May-2011, 16:28
I us and MS ergo 4000 brown box keyboard and a logitech mouse when my mac is at my desktop. Not fond of Apple keyboards and mice at all...plus I need the three buttons for linux.
do the page up/page down keys work under OSX?
do the page up/page down keys work under OSX?
Yes, but the home/end keys work only in some apps unless I program them.
Squilliam
16-May-2011, 18:26
How come we never get Grall rants as long as the OP here? :-(
Anyway I have to say that Apple products are addictive. My friend has an iPhone 3G and I love it and my other friend has an iPad 1 AND 2 and I love that too. He also has an Apple TV as well... What is it about these products which makes them the equivalent of digital crack cocaine?
RudeCurve
16-May-2011, 19:47
Congrats on the Macbook! I'm also considering switching over to Apple hardware in the future probably start with an iPad 2 or future iPad 3 then moving to a Macbook.
It does many things in a slightly other way, not because it's neccessarly better compared to how windows accomplishes the same thing, but I suspect, simply to NOT be like windows.
Other way around, historically.
There's also that wonky exposé thingy - which I don't quite get the point of - by dragging 4 fingers on the touchpad, which I find useless really because all windows revert to their original positions as soon as I lift even one finger off the pad!
Swipe (lifting your fingers off) instead of dragging. The former allows for further selection, the latter is for quickly peeking at the desktop or open windows to check something and return immediately to your work.
Talking about taking screenshots, one thing mysteriously lacking on MacOS X is a built-in MS Paint-like application. It makes the job of occasionally annotating a screenshot or a picture very annoying. Right now I use Autodesk's SketchBook Express, which is free, but quite a bit more complex than what I actually want.
Are these inadequate?
http://i.imgur.com/dNDdh.png
Exposé/screenshot/etc. keyboard shortcuts are viewable in System Preferences -> Keyboard. Older shortcuts tied to the function keys still work, last I was aware.
Most of the complaints I see about OSX simply come down to "it's not like windows" (annotate feature of preview being a perfect example). Remember, other than Xerox's Palo Alto Research Center, Apple was first with windows, mice, WYSIWYG, Postscript, etc. It's kinda like the 80s when someone would sit down at a unix machine and get pissy because "dir" didn't work...
Once you learn OS X - just as a Mac user would have to learn Windows - it's actually quite robust and intuitive.
Also, for even simpler screenshots use Captur.
Exposé/screenshot/etc. keyboard shortcuts are viewable in System Preferences -> Keyboard. Older shortcuts tied to the function keys still work, last I was aware.
Actually for expose they don't, because the older shortcuts are F9 ~ F12 and now these are used for adjusting speaker volumes on the newer keyboard.
The newer keyboard's special functions can be disabled but I'd rather not for obvious reason :) Fortunately I found out that it can be combine with control and command for various Expose functions, and that's good enough for me.
The annotation function in the preview application is fine for some jobs, but it still lacks some feature (for example, I don't know how to make a solid shape) so I still have to use Sketch Book Express. Of course, that's not too bad since it's free.
Personally now I am using two computers on my desk, one being my "main computer" which is a Windows 7 PC, and another one is the Mac mini. I prefer this to a dual screen set up because I can IM or browsing web while playing full screen games/watching full screen movies at the same time. So arguably I now use my Mac mini more than on my PC.
So I'm seriously considering my next notebook between the two: Thinkpad X220 or a 13" Macbook Pro. Their prices and specs are similar, but X220 is probably more sturdy, but the benefit of MacOS X is also a consideration (I'm doing some iOS development works and being able to modify programs on the go is a plus).
Actually for expose they don't, because the older shortcuts are F9 ~ F12 and now these are used for adjusting speaker volumes on the newer keyboard.
If you're using an Apple keyboard then the "fn" key is your friend. :)
Most of the complaints I see about OSX simply come down to "it's not like windows" (annotate feature of preview being a perfect example). Remember, other than Xerox's Palo Alto Research Center, Apple was first with windows, mice, WYSIWYG, Postscript, etc. It's kinda like the 80s when someone would sit down at a unix machine and get pissy because "dir" didn't work...
Once you learn OS X - just as a Mac user would have to learn Windows - it's actually quite robust and intuitive.
Also, for even simpler screenshots use Captur.
I'm a fan myself, but sometimes OS X seems just a little bit too idiosyncratic for its own good. One of my personal annoyances, and I'm surprised Grall hasn't thrown a hissy fit about this one yet, is not having cut and paste in the finder. Someone in the Apple Kremlin decreed this to be an abomination and many Mac diehards will go to great lengths to explain why the missing functionality actually makes sense. For the rest of us however the $1.99 moveAddict from the App Store mostly does the trick, and you can pretty much turn it invisible.
Blazkowicz
17-May-2011, 18:13
wow. I used to tell complete noobs that I see struggling in a file manager to use the Edit menu and select copy/paste/cut from there :). because it's hard to know if a drag'n'drog will copy or move, and hard to know what happens when there's no white space in a directory listing, to do a right-click/paste there.
I don't know how the OSX file manager works, though from screenshots it looks like a regular one (similar to windows, gnome, xfce etc.)
I like the good old way : almost every application on every OS has the file, edit, view menus etc., windows can be dragged'n'dropped from the title bar and can be closed, minimized, restored etc.
Those are all GUI skills I carried on from windows 3.0 unto windows 9x, XP, old KDE linux, motif, gnome etc.
I see no much need to be different for the sake of it (hidden menus in windows vista/7, hidden scrollbars in ubuntu unity are examples of unneeded things.)
Yeah, cut and paste from the right mouse button in Finder would be good as would consistent use of the home and end buttons. I also don't like that only the lower right corner of a window can be used for resizing and windows got it right when you could drag a file with the right mouse button and then decide on move vs. copy. I'll make one confession though...for any substantial file movement projects I almost always use the command line...so much cleaner and more flexible than any gui.
Lion will have Finder file copy/paste and any-edge window resizing.
I'd like to point out that any decent wireless mouse will go to sleep when not in use and then turn back on when moved.
True, and the Apple Magic Mouse does that too, but regular cordless mice still have to keep the sensor and tracking LED alive periodically to sense if you've moved it so it can wake back up again. BT mice don't do that, they turn that stuff off when you put the system to sleep. OTOH, it needs to power the receiver instead to know when signalled to wake back up again... I don't know what eats more power really. :)
My last five wireless mice(WHY DO MICE DIE SO FAST) did that, and my current one does that as well.
They die so fast because being wireless and not physically attached to the system they smash into smithereens when thrown against a wall in frustration. :oops:
Yes, I've done that more than once (typically because of getting killed too much in Competitive-Online-FPS-I'm-Currently-Playing...) Dumbfuck thing to do, I know, but it's really irritating when other people on my team don't play with the team in mind and instead just try to frag as many people as possible, causing us to lose the round. I guess I ought to try some yoga or something instead... :razz:
Safe to say, I don't use cordless mice anymore. Well, my Logitech G700 is cordless, but I run it with the cord attached.
Oh and Mize or any other Macos-knowledgeable person... I still can't get both my Mac and PC to show up on the same network. I connect the portable via wifi to the same router as the wired PC, but surely the medium carrying the ethernet packets doesn't have any impact, right?
I tried setting a workgroup as suggested, using the same name on both systems of course, but that didn't make any difference for whatever reason I don't understand.
Appreciate any help here, thankyous.
Oh, and btw. Does anyone know if Apple's Time Capsule is any damn good/worth the money? I've got a wireless N-router, it's not bad per se but it's not all that great either (netgear WNR-3500). It doesn't support dual band operation and there's not been any firmware updates for like a year and a half if not more. It tends to hang every 2-3 months also, requiring a vulcan nerve pinch to the power plug to remedy (no physical on/off switch, gah!), so I would like something a bit more recent. I hear both the time capsule and the airport extreme units support up to 450Mbit/s wifi on the 5GHz band, which would be great...
However, first I'd need to know if the time capsule can function as a standard NAT broadband router/firewall for all devices hooked up to it? The apple store personnel 'round these parts are sales people, they don't know shit about the stuff they sell beyond the absolute basics so asking them is no good... If it can't, it's not really going to be suitable for me.
I assume Apple releases firmwares for it periodically so I won't end up with a bugridden hunk of junk because a newer model was released and the company rather sell some of those than upgrade their older stuff? Is it easy to administer/upgrade?
Thanks again. :D
Worst case scenario in Finder choose go to server and enter the ip manually using smb protocol.
Can the windows machines see the Mac? Is sharing enabled on the Mac?
I don't have time capsule but I think it's just air port with a drive. Airport extreme is a good router (I have one along with my dlink) and its lack of an http front end has made it more secure with some recent security issues.
Just checked...
It's Go->Connect To Server-> then enter smb://ipaddress
I got the networking sorted. I needed to call Applecare to get it to work, heh. Got to talk to a nice girl who didn't really know how to coax Macos to speak with Windows either (like people never call to ask any Windows-related questions so they don't train their staff in knowing any Windows stuff... :roll:), but she looked in her support documents and figured it out for me. Whee.
I had to manually activate a protocol or whatever in the control panel thingy, typical apple crap to not have windows-compatible networking enabled by default. Let's pretend the defacto standard doesn't exist... *le sigh*
The laptop itself, as a coherent whole, is quite nice though, and I'm glad I bought it since I can now compute on the move. I brought it with me to my parents' place last month, and didn't have to use my dad's HP laptop with its TERRIBLE screen.
Right now I'm primarily using the Mac instead of my bigass PC, because of heat dissipation. Or rather, the lack of it. Even on full load the Mac generates less heat than the PC when idling. :shock: It really WOULD have been nice if it had had a toslink jack for multichannel audio though... The built-in speakers are crap, and even though I can plug in headphones, Macos has no support for simulated multichannel 3D audio like Windows does.
I wonder if Macos supports audio out over displaychannel... If so, if I'd had a receiver with displaychannel inputs (if there even exists such a thing) I could have managed it that way, but alas. When watching The X-Files on DVD, the built-in mono speaker is acceptable. For Spotify, I do use headphones, and stereo is quite enough for that.
I wonder, if I were to buy a Cinema display with its...what? 2600*1600 or whatever resolution, would the Intel GMA 6000 GPU in the sandybridge CPU handle that screen size for normal windowing/UI tasks at a decent enough clip? Doubtlessly, gaming in 3D would be hopeless (unless only playing games 10 years old perhaps), but that would not be my focus when buying such a display.
Onkl Bjorni
05-Jul-2011, 14:45
It really WOULD have been nice if it had had a toslink jack for multichannel audio though... The built-in speakers are crap, and even though I can plug in headphones, Macos has no support for simulated multichannel 3D audio like Windows does.
Regarding toslink, are you sure the headphone jack/line out port is not a multipurpose port? On my MacMini the line out is also a optical out with the use of a adapter.
Something like this. http://www.shopmania.co.uk/audio-video-accessories/p-tos-optical-toslink-plug-to-mini-3-5mm-optical-jack-plug-adapter-11414281
It would have been effing sweet if that was the case, but alas no. There's no red LED glowing out of my headphones jack... Oh well, it IS a combined mic + headphones jack though, I guess I have to be satisfied with that. Plugging in an iPhone headset works great for some Skyping and such.
I wonder, if I were to buy a Cinema display with its...what? 2600*1600 or whatever resolution, would the Intel GMA 6000 GPU in the sandybridge CPU handle that screen size for normal windowing/UI tasks at a decent enough clip? Doubtlessly, gaming in 3D would be hopeless (unless only playing games 10 years old perhaps), but that would not be my focus when buying such a display.
Yes, the output from that MBP can drive those really big (2560x1600 and 2560x1440) Cinema panels.
So you know for sure there's no slowdown when moving fullscreen windows or scrolling huge webpages? If so, then that's awesome. Cheers for the info, it's appreciated! :D
Btw, I had two minidisc players in the past that used the 3.5mm headphone/TOSlink jack setup, it would have been so sweet if Apple had thought of that. Usually they're really good with smart, innovative (errr... nearly 10 years old idea, but heck, you know what I mean, right!) tech like that, and sometimes they're just amazingly cheap instead and skimp on what's considered standard features on any other brand (like, extra video inputs on their previously mentioned and uber expensive cinema displays...)
Btw, I had two minidisc players in the past that used the 3.5mm headphone/TOSlink jack setup, it would have been so sweet if Apple had thought of that.
If they haven't changed it in the last model, your MBP should provide exactly that combo, like they have since the Powerbook days.
I'll be goddamned... It actually works. :D Thanks man, that's pretty awesome. Listening to Sigur Ros now digitally, I still had the minijack-to-toslink cable I bought in 1995 or thereabouts and it works perfectly. It was hella expensive, had to special order it from Sony because minijack toslink was so new back then and I ended up almost never using it anyway. What a bummer! Maybe it finally can give me some value-for-money now... :lol:
Question is though, does Macos support realtime dolby digital encode? (DD Live or whatsitscalled.) Doesn't seem that way from looking through the audio control panel applet, it's REALLY bare-bones compared to what windows supports.
Question is though, does Macos support realtime dolby digital encode? (DD Live or whatsitscalled.) Doesn't seem that way from looking through the audio control panel applet, it's REALLY bare-bones compared to what windows supports.
Natively, no. But I've heard some people use something called ac3jack along with Jack OS X to do something similar to this via software. Basically it's a user space audio driver which lets any CoreAudio application sends its output to the driver so it can connect to an AC-3 encoder to output AC-3 stream in real time.
Thanks PC, good infos but I think I'll pass on such esoteric stuff for now... I need to get a handle on the basic operation of this damn OS first, like WHYY!!! on earth clicking the red streetlight doesn't actually quit a program.
It just closes the window, which in the case of Safari meant I had a "lost" window with like six tabs in it hiding somewhere in the bowels of my Mac, inaccessible... I tried the "open last closed window" menu option from the History menu, but all that gave me was a new window with one empty tab in it. :???:
I tried playing a bit of Team Fortress 2, but the game kept jerking like crazy because there were half a dozen background programs that I thought I'd already closed, eating an aggregate of 25ish percent CPU. Crazy.
This is driving me absolutely buggo, the only way I find to actually quit anything permanently is to select quit from the program's menu, and that's just utter madness. I don't think it used to do that in the beginning either, it's like it decided to start doing this recently just to mess with my head. :razz:
Time Capsule is also giving me grey hairs by the way. It's constantly backing up tons and tons of stuff for no facking reason, like every god damn hour it backs up anything from 20MB to 10+ gigabytes, even though I've barely touched the computer and hardly anything has changed on the drive. Just an hour ago it first backed up 10 gigabytes, and when it finished it immediately started on another batch of 10 gigs. It's insane, I had to turn that shit off because it was driving me absolutely insane.
I also can't make it back up my removable USB key, which seems a big oversight to me, considering I can't find a regular backup program included with the OS to use to back up the key to the harddrive so that the time machine can then keep my stuff safe. Again, crazy!
I love the hardware itself, but I really REALLY don't like Macos. I think it's utter shit to be frank. It hangs and crashes a lot more than any windows version I've used since millennium, it doesn't have nearly the same level of core functionality despite of Apple's bragging that it's "the world's most advanced OS" (according to what metric, hm? Steve Jobs' ego? :lol:) Just for example, there's no built-in 3D or multichannel sound, no built-in backup, no antivirus or malware protection, not even any firewall that I can see and so on. It doesn't even support standard cut and paste hotkeys for chrissakes, and at least in Safari the context menu doesn't indicate the key combo you need to use is command-c/v/x/z...
The time machine doesn't support UPNP (why? No reason, well, because microsoft invented that so we're gonna pretend it doesn't exist and isn't needed I guess...), doesn't support stateful packet inspection, and you can't hide your wifi network's ssid either. Or at least I've not been able to figure out how, it must be some secret apple sauce that is too complex or advanced for ordinary people to understand. :roll:
Apple is a big dichotomy, on one hand they make some really solid, great gadgets that look and function just awesome (for the most part), and on the other they're a sneering elitist club for fascist backslappers, where you're like, a lesser person if you have needs that Apple in its superior wisdom doesn't cater to. Meh.
(PS: safari's built-in spellchecker triggers on "microsoft" but not "pepsi"... lol! :D)
Blazkowicz
09-Jul-2011, 14:02
reading about your phantom programs is very funny :)
it reminds me of windows 7, when I failed to launch a second instance of a program. so I just went to c:\program files with the file manager and launched it from there.
or when I killed firefox from the task manager or command line to use its session saving feature. thanksfully I found out that "file/quit" does the trick.
you could always just do it the unix way, open and terminal and do a ps -U Grall, then a kill 8840 10124 10240 as an example on killing three rogue programs.
(and maybe the ps is following a different, BSD syntax)
I love the hardware itself, but I really REALLY don't like Macos. I think it's utter shit to be frank. It hangs and crashes a lot more than any windows version I've used since millennium, it doesn't have nearly the same level of core functionality despite of Apple's bragging that it's "the world's most advanced OS" (according to what metric, hm? Steve Jobs' ego? :lol:) Just for example, there's no built-in 3D or multichannel sound, no built-in backup, no antivirus or malware protection, not even any firewall that I can see and so on. It doesn't even support standard cut and paste hotkeys for chrissakes, and at least in Safari the context menu doesn't indicate the key combo you need to use is command-c/v/x/z...
Settle down Grall. You just don't know Unix apparently.
Built in backup is called time machine. If you don't like that you can tar.z anything...there's a firewall built in - it's under "security" - I know, strange it'd be there. You can also program whatever hotkeys you want.
There are plenty of virus/malware apps out there including free ones like iAntivirus and clamav...paid include eset and virus barrier.
What AV/AM comes with windows again? None.
Most of your gripes come down to user ignorance. You've been using windows for years and are basically comparing your know-how of windows with something your new to and blaming the new OS rather than the user. It's kinda funny.
I use windows 7, linux and MacOS daily. I love W7 for gaming, but there is so much I don't like about it for productivity. For "work" I like MacOS best - many good free or cheap apps compared to windows and all its shovelware. Then again, OSX is unix and I've been using Unix since 1989 so I know my way around a bourne shell where you likely don't.
Anyway, if you don't like OSX, then just bootcamp that mac and get rid of OSX. No need to learn anything new.
Blazkowicz
09-Jul-2011, 15:19
windows has windows defender, and there's a microsoft antivirus since two years ago, but I rather install something like AVG.
I find windows 7 to be not too frustrating, but after making it look and act like windows 98/XP (that requires third party software, whereas XP would only need clicking a few options or at most use TweakUI)
windows 7 loses still for not allowing a full screen command line, it's my most severe grip with the OS. why should I be allowed to hit alt-enter only to get a modal popup window that tells me to fuck off, the feature is not available anymore and we won't tell you why? :twisted:
OSX fails for using the "globar" menu bar on top of the screen, a concept that worked well on the Atari ST and Mac OS back when it was called "System" and only did single tasking.
It also fails for using the dock, a concept made of hard to understand little squares that failed on the linux desktop a long time ago, and was replaced by gnome 1.0 and KDE 1.0
gnome 2.3x has a few quirks (how can I set it up for closing windows with a double-click on the "windows 3.1 menu"?) but has some decent enough flexibility while keeping things normal.
Defender is garbage and AV has to be installed, just like iAntivirus or clamav.
Windows command line fails because you can do so little with it.
The menubar was just adopted by Ubuntu. Craziness.
The dock is now integral to Windows 7.
rpg.314
09-Jul-2011, 18:02
gnome 2.3x has a few quirks (how can I set it up for closing windows with a double-click on the "windows 3.1 menu"?) but has some decent enough flexibility while keeping things normal. I am a Ubuntu Unity fan since I installed it.
It just closes the window, which in the case of Safari meant I had a "lost" window with like six tabs in it hiding somewhere in the bowels of my Mac, inaccessible...
You'll get used to keyboard shortcuts pretty quickly. Cmd-w instead of the red button to close a window, cmd-q to quit a program, cmd-` (the ~ key) to switch among a program's windows.
Did you look for that hidden Safari window in Safari's Window menu? A window won't show in Expose (F3 in recent keyboards, or four-finger swipe down) if it's been hidden (cmd-h), so you'll need to cmd-tab away from and back to an app to find it. Or just click on its dock icon.
Time Capsule is also giving me grey hairs by the way. It's constantly backing up tons and tons of stuff for no facking reason, like every god damn hour it backs up anything from 20MB to 10+ gigabytes, even though I've barely touched the computer and hardly anything has changed on the drive.I can't remember how long the initial backup took, or whether it was split up into multiple runs, but maybe you're messing with more files than you realize? Another handy tip: use Time Machine > Preferences > Options to exclude, say, a HD clone (Super Duper and Carbon Copy being two free cloning apps).
It doesn't even support standard cut and paste hotkeys for chrissakes, and at least in Safari the context menu doesn't indicate the key combo you need to use is command-c/v/x/z...No cutting in Finder is a PITA. I wonder if fullscreen Lion apps will show shortcut combos in context menus.
you can't hide your wifi network's ssid eitherYou mean on your own Mac, from yourself? Or are you using an AirPort?
on the other they're a sneering elitist club for fascist backslappers, where you're like, a lesser person if you have needs that Apple in its superior wisdom doesn't cater to. Meh.Only meh? That sounds like it deserves at least a rage quit. Remember, cmd-q. :razz: Seriously, there's probably an app for your itch: Quicksilver/Alfred, Growl, BetterTouchTool, MenuMeters, iStat, DeliveryStatus, gfxCardStatus, to name a few free ones. Most are nice. Quicksilver/Alfred and Growl are essential, IMO.
Grall, again you need time to learn this stuff.
You want to hide your SSID on any Air Port product go to manual setup -> wireless -> wireless network options and choose "closed network"
It's all there...just pretend it's a new version of Office and you have to figure out where Microsoft hid everything.
Settle down Grall. You just don't know Unix apparently.
Hehe. Sorry, I just felt I had to rant a bit.
Built in backup is called time machine.
Yea, but like I said, it won't backup my USB key. Time machine decided on its own to add it to the exclusion list, and I can't remove the exclusion...
there's a firewall built in - it's under "security" - I know, strange it'd be there.
Sarcasm, sarcasm... :D I'm not fully down with Macos UI functionality yet... I tend to overlook those toggle buttons at the top of the system preference sub-apps, so I missed the tab with the firewall (which incidentally defaults to "off"... Hm. It also doesn't seem to block any outgoing connections at all.)
What AV/AM comes with windows again? None.
It's not included in the OS, because if it was MS would probably face yet another antitrust lawsuit, but Security Essentials is available on windows update now I hear, so it's not exactly hard to find. :)
Most of your gripes come down to user ignorance.
Aye, I know (and if you wanna laugh at me that's OK too :lol:), but I feel that A: if I can't just figure out how something should work on my own and by using my past computer experience it's not really my fault if I fail, and B: if you're changing how common tasks are performed just to be different (like those god damn fail streetlights for example), then you're being stupid. There's nothing wrong in following defacto standards, especially when the alternative design made by apple isn't even any better.
The dock is just one such example. It sucks, coz you can't see at a glance wether a program is (still) running or not. The icon in the dock looks exactly the same in either case! I also refuse to use the windows version of the dock in win7, I think it's crap there too. It just messes things up, the application bar/menu from XP/vista was far better at keeping things tidy.
I know my way around a bourne shell where you likely don't.
Yeah, well, I stopped using shells when I retired my Amiga. Didn't really see any need for it anymore. Shells are death as far as user ergonomics are concerned, so I wasn't sad to leave all that behind me.
Anyway, if you don't like OSX, then just bootcamp that mac and get rid of OSX. No need to learn anything new.
While a possibility of course, I'm like, no wai. Coz that would turn this nicely integrated machine into a somewhat gimped, slower, power-hungrier generic windows PC in a pretty casing. No, I'll continue on using and disliking Macos, and maybe there'll be some improvements in Lion, and maybe I'll start disliking the rest that isn't improved less as time goes by. And if I went the bootcamp route I'd have to plonk down another stack of cash for another Win7 license, and that doesn't tempt me right now, especially not with win8 due next year.
If I owned an iMac, I most likely would install bootcamp/windows though so I could do some proper gaming, but the performance on this laptop just isn't there for that. It struggles at times with torchlight for chrissakes, and you can't get much simpler than that in a recent game release (that isn't an indie title...) I don't even want to know how much slower it could get in a more demanding title...
Good things about macos though, is the really fast startup (comes from not making quite so many awful core architecture design choices I guess - like the registry for example... :lol:) Even with a crappy 2.5" laptop HDD it boots up fast. I don't dare to think how quick it might be with a SSD, but I intend to find out as soon as Macos gets better support for trim.
Also, really fast sleep and waking from sleep, and sleep actually seems to work in Macos. Never been nothing but trouble on almost all of my windows PCs (works fine a few times, then magically starts hanging or bluescreens spontaneously either on entering sleep or waking up again), and it doesn't always work correctly even on win laptops. Not so happy it wakes from sleep any time a USB device is connected - or removed! - though. But that's a different matter.
I love the hardware itself, but I really REALLY don't like Macos. I think it's utter shit to be frank. It hangs and crashes a lot more than any windows version I've used since millennium, it doesn't have nearly the same level of core functionality despite of Apple's bragging that it's "the world's most advanced OS" (according to what metric, hm? Steve Jobs' ego? )Just for example, there's no built-in 3D or multichannel sound,
http://i.imgur.com/7H7CN.png
no built-in backup,
http://i.imgur.com/ppq37.png
no antivirus or malware protection,
http://i.imgur.com/yfb2F.png
not even any firewall that I can see and so on.
http://i.imgur.com/tg0aP.png
It doesn't even support standard cut and paste hotkeys for chrissakes, and at least in Safari the context menu doesn't indicate the key combo you need to use is command-c/v/x/z...
"Standard" being the hotkeys that Apple originated and Microsoft copied, replacing the modifier key with one that clashes with control characters?
http://i.imgur.com/JSy9s.png
Apple is a big dichotomy, on one hand they make some really solid, great gadgets that look and function just awesome (for the most part), and on the other they're a sneering elitist club for fascist backslappers, where you're like, a lesser person if you have needs that Apple in its superior wisdom doesn't cater to. Meh.
Give up and go back to Windows so you can stop being a jackass.
(PS: safari's built-in spellchecker triggers on "microsoft" but not "pepsi"... lol!)
http://i.imgur.com/7JYkf.png
The dock is just one such example. It sucks, coz you can't see at a glance wether a program is (still) running or not. The icon in the dock looks exactly the same in either case!There's a pretty visible dot next to running apps. Don't get too used to it, because I think Lion does away with even that. :)
FYI, I've read that hiding your router's SSID is worse than not.
There's a pretty visible dot next to running apps.
There is??? Where? I've never seen any dots anywhere, and I made the dock icons uber large when hovering the mouse over it because it felt easier to aim that way when using the built-in trackpad...
I'm gonna go look for this dot of yours in a bit, I'm back on the PC now because I was going to play some WoW (gaming with the magic mouse is less than...magic, lol.) Blizzard bestowed 7 free days on me so I had a relapse with my previous addiction, temporarily at least. :razz:
FYI, I've read that hiding your router's SSID is worse than not.
Hm, why would that be? It would stop most casuals/noobs from trying to log in on your wireless network if they can't see at a glance that it's there. :)
It's a bluish white dot underneath the running app icon.
Guess I need stronger glasses then, because I've honestly never noticed. :shocked: Anyway, what's up with command-tab not expanding minimized windows? It's not supposed to do that? Maybe I'm just stupid, but that seems like an oversight to me. :(
Guess I need stronger glasses then, because I've honestly never noticed. :shocked: Anyway, what's up with command-tab not expanding minimized windows? It's not supposed to do that? Maybe I'm just stupid, but that seems like an oversight to me. :(
I guess it's because that in Windows alt-tab switches between windows, but in MacOS X cmd-tab switches between applications.
I rarely minimize any window and use Expose to select from overlapped windows. I think Windows 7's task bar is much better, but that's probably just personal preference.
There is??? Where? Like Mize said, it's a bluish white dot under the icon when the dock is at the bottom of your screen, or a white dot when the dock is on the left or right.
Hm, why would that be? It would stop most casuals/noobs from trying to log in on your wireless network if they can't see at a glance that it's there. :)You can find a handful of links if you google "hide ssid." I guess hiding your SSID would be safer if you're not at home and using your wireless network at all, but as soon as you're home you're not hiding it from anyone because now your laptop/phone start yelling your SSID every other second (mail, social, internet, updates, ...). I guess the best of both worlds is hiding it when you're away and decloaking when you're home, but that sounds like more trouble than it's worth. Or just turn your router off when you leave.
But didn't Google's Streetview cars capture even hidden networks as they drove by while trying to pinpoint everyone on the planet? So there's no real hiding, just a false sense of security. That's what Google told me, anyway, and I totally trust them (because they know where I live). :)
Anyway, what's up with command-tab not expanding minimized windows? It's not supposed to do that?Pro-tip: don't minimize windows, hide them (cmd-h). That way cmd-tab will reveal them.
I don't know the rationale with cmd-tab skipping minimized windows, but Expose should show them.
Yeah, OS X does a lot of things differently, but it grows on you--especially all the hotkey shortcuts (again, get QuickSilver or Alfred to make launching apps a breeze).
but as soon as you're home you're not hiding it from anyone because now your laptop/phone start yelling your SSID every other second
Well, that it'll start spouting packets left and right really can't be avoided, but my network still won't show up in a standard scan so you'd need some equivalent of a packet sniffer or something to make it show up. And that requires more knowledge and effort than most people are willing to spend. :)
But didn't Google's Streetview cars capture even hidden networks as they drove by while trying to pinpoint everyone on the planet?
I know they broke into unsecured networks - although don't ask me the fuck why, coz there's no rationale behind it - I haven't seen any information at all on wether they accessed hidden networks. I've casually followed the story, maybe the info is out there, but I've not seen it mentioned on any of the mainstream sites that have reported on it (like dailytech and ars technica for example.)
So there's no real hiding
I know that! :razz: It's still better than just having it out there in plain sight.
Now I gotta find out if Logitech has Mac drivers for my G700 mouse. I'm going nuts trying to game with a plain-jane 5-button wireless laptop mouse (thumb buttons in the wrong places, too "twitchy"), and the magic mouse is utterly hopeless in any title needing more than a left and right button (or even both at the same time!) Ugh.
I know they broke into unsecured networksFrom what I understood they basically connected to unsecured networks and saved whatever data was moved around there. I wouldn't quite equate that to "breaking in".
Like Mize said, it's a bluish white dot under the icon when the dock is at the bottom of your screen, or a white dot when the dock is on the left or right.
Yes, I see the dot now when I'm back on my Mac, and that's terrible UI design. Not in a million years would I have noticed that tiny little thing if you guys hadn't told me where to look, or realized its significance. The indicator should be a lot more obvious than that!
One thing W7 cannot do that it should be able to and that any unix, including OSX can do is scroll in a non-foreground window. This saves incredible amounts of time as you don't have to keep pulling windows to the foreground to move around in them. Try it Grall, you'll like it.
Yes, I see the dot now when I'm back on my Mac, and that's terrible UI design. Not in a million years would I have noticed that tiny little thing if you guys hadn't told me where to look, or realized its significance. The indicator should be a lot more obvious than that!
LOL.
When I first went to OSX (I had used macs years ago at NASA but not since) a few years ago, I noticed it immediately...icon bounces and gets a dot. Maybe because so many of the Compiz features from linux had copied OSX, but the dot works fine for me. Also you can see every running app and window quite easily at any point...
Try it Grall, you'll like it.
Something worth keeping in mind for sure, but I've just never had the need... :oops:
Not really much room to stack windows on a 1280*800 screen, but I might get myself a cinema display if there's an update this summer (should be, I wager, considering they update on a yearly basis...) Then I'd have plenty of pixels to play around with.
Yes, I see the dot now when I'm back on my Mac, and that's terrible UI design. Not in a million years would I have noticed that tiny little thing if you guys hadn't told me where to look, or realized its significance. The indicator should be a lot more obvious than that!
I don't know if W7's that much more obvious for realizing something's running--though it's definitely better design overall--but don't worry about the dot too much. Apparently it'll disappear in Lion (http://www.tech-recipes.com/rx/11761/os-x-lion-10-7-enable-dock-running-apps-indicators/), so there'll be no visual difference between apps that are running and those that aren't. :) I feel like breaking out my Palm Vx!
Though I'm still curious as to how knowing whether an app is running affects your workflow.
Though I'm still curious as to how knowing whether an app is running affects your workflow.
In practical terms it doesn't really matter much I suppose. However for personal reasons I do like to know what's spinning on my CPU even if iSteve doesn't think that it's important wether I know or not... ;)
misquote there Grallster...
Thanks... Fixed now.
Sorry about that, I've no idea how it happened.
So, Lion in two days eh? :D I'm fairly curious myself what to expect.
I'm looking forward to resize from any corner...
A proper maximize feature would be nice too. With my laptop's screen being relatively small, many webpages need a full-screen sized window, but the streetlights are no real help there, at least in Safari. The green button just toggles between two sizes of window, neither neccessarily full-size.
I guess there's some special fucken hotkey I could press to accomplish what I want, but who can remember all that crap? :razz: I can barely remember the most basic of hotkeys even on windows, and I've been using that for nearly fifteen years by now.
Silent_Buddha
13-Jul-2011, 15:08
I'm looking forward to resize from any corner...
Oh, wow, they are only just getting that? I know back in the days when I used Macs (before OSX) that was one of the things that really bugged the living hell out of me when I had to use them. I had always assumed that the OSX revamp would have added that feature.
I wonder if they resisted implementing that for so long because they didn't want to be viewed as copying anyone else? :p
Regards,
SB
It's like 1-button mice...crazy stupid.
I wish I could lock the screen so I can't shove windows outside its edges. I've always hated that ever since I stopped used my Amiga, it feels sloppy and messy.
I wish I could lock the screen so I can't shove windows outside its edges. I've always hated that ever since I stopped used my Amiga, it feels sloppy and messy.
Ok, you are either pathetically lazy or you are fucking with us.
Disable Spaces.
Done.
...unless you mean you want no part of a window to go beyond the edge of the screen. That would drive me utterly mad as I'm often working in four apps at once...
Ok, you are either pathetically lazy or you are fucking with us.
Disable Spaces.
Done.
And I'm supposed to find out about these things automatically just by buying the darned thing, or perhaps through diffusion from touching its casing?
If you think I'm asking such dumb questions how about you just not replying to them, hm? I can do without your ascerbic remarks just fine, thankyou.
...unless you mean you want no part of a window to go beyond the edge of the screen.
Correctomundo.
That would drive me utterly mad as I'm often working in four apps at once...
Get a bigger screen. :twisted:
Windows sticking outside the screen edge have always bugged me enormously, it looks - to me - terribly messy and unprofessional...
Windows sticking outside the screen edge have always bugged me enormously, it looks - to me - terribly messy and unprofessional...
Windows has similar behavior, actually I believe most GUI has the same behavior. However, I sort of like Windows 7's new "moving to the edge to dock" feature. Good for large screen users :)
I cant get that "moving to the edge to dock" thing to work in win7
Better Touch Tool can snap windows to screen edges for Macs. Didn't nVidia drivers intro
something like that a while ago for Windows?
I love Spaces on limited-res screens, and that dragging a window off the edge of the screen moves it to the adjacent space.
I cant get that "moving to the edge to dock" thing to work in win7
When you move a non-maximized (and sizable) window, dragging the cursor to the edge (not just the window) it will show a shadow occupying half of the screen space for left and right edges, and full screen for the top edge. It also preserves the old position and size of the window so you can double click on the title bar to restore its old position and size.
Blazkowicz
16-Jul-2011, 15:25
also you can use Win + left/right/up/down arrows as hotkeys for that feature.
for any previous version of windows you can use the "vertical mosaïc" feature as well, have to ctrl-click two program windows in the task bar, right click and select some such option.
Windows has similar behavior
Yeah, I'm painfully aware of it. Actually, the ol' Amiga's Workbench was probably the only major windowing GUI that did have a definitive screen limit, well possibly barring X-windows implementation I suppose, Lunix was never anything I paid much attention to. :)
However, I sort of like Windows 7's new "moving to the edge to dock" feature.
Yeah, that thing is great, although I don't actually use it all that often. It is useful when scanning Steam's store for interesting stuff, as they seemingly designed that interface to fit entirely within a 1080 vertical-rez window. ...Back when I had a 1080-rez screen that is. *facepalm*
Btw, new LED Cinema Display seems to be incoming soon (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/07/15/apples-upcoming-hardware-refresh-to-include-thunderbolt-led-display-not-macbook/), and according to alledgedly "leaked" images, it features thunderbolt daisy-chaining, allowing one Macbook to drive three displays! Two external, and the built-in screen. (The lappy in the presented image is a 15" model, I wonder if the 13" unit might also be able to pull this off...)
I also wonder if that might mean the other thunderbolt port might possibly work as an additional video input if connected up to another system rather than an additional display? ...No, that can't be possible, this is Apple we're talking about! You must buy extra displays for each computer! :twisted:
Anyhow, no controls of any kind can be seen on the bezel, so if there is an additional video in port, then switching between inputs undoubtedly involves black magic of some sort. :)
sorry for the ot but win key and arrow keys do nothing
nether does dragging a resizable window to the edge of the screen so the cursor is as far as it can go
Davros, that's really weird. You're SURE you're running Win7? :D ...Because dragging (or resizing) a window so the pointer bonks into the screen edge should give you an outline for how the window will resize if you let go of the mouse button.
Silent_Buddha
17-Jul-2011, 07:43
sorry for the ot but win key and arrow keys do nothing
nether does dragging a resizable window to the edge of the screen so the cursor is as far as it can go
I'm guessing you disabled this feature somehow.
If you go to
Control Panel -> Ease of Access Center
Then click on any of the following
Make the mouse easier to use
Make the keyboard easier to use
Make it easier to focus on tasks
On the page that comes up there is an option to
Prevent windows from being automatically arranged when moved to the edge of the screen
Uncheck that and you should be good to go.
Regards,
SB
ahh yes i must of disabled it
Went by an Apple store today when I was in the city (Gothia Cup is raging right now, so there's football kids ALL OVER. 50.000 of 'em, crikey! Fun to look at though...), had a look at the current Cinema Display. New one doesn't seem to be coming this week, and I'm getting impatient. :(
Anyway, it's SOO BIIG! (...So she said.) And, err, soo shiny too. :oops: Really, it's huge, and it looks beautiful to me, and the built-in speakers are pretty danged good, certainly for a monitor anyway. Luckily my computer corner is pretty dark and shielded from direct daylight, otherwise the overly shiny screen would surely become really bothersome, but I think I'd be OK. I know it's probably not a very good deal, value-for-money-wise, but I just can't resist the Apple shine.
...And the integrated charging cable and audio-over-displayport is nice functionality, along with the camera (not sure there's a mic, though - yes there is one says Steve's home page (http://www.apple.com/displays/)) and the ambient light sensor.
Would be amusing if Apple put USB3 connectors in the monitor and drove 'em off of the thunderbolt interface, but I can't really see them doing that. Steve said no USB3 until Ivy Bridge, so I'm assuming that's what goes.
Anyhow, I'm really hoping this thing will be mine soon. It's difficult to wait... :(
Silent_Buddha
19-Jul-2011, 21:20
Unfortunately (for me) the new Apple Cinema display is likely to be 16:9 rather than 16:10 as well as being more expensive than competing displays. I think I'll be sticking with HP for the forseeable future for my 30" displays, excellant picture quality with an excellant price.
Then again if Apple comes out with a 16:10 30" display with LED backlighting, I'd be willing to pay the price premium.
Regards,
SB
Why would the aspect matter? You get 2600*1440, that's way more than a 16:10 24" screen, which is mainstream. And 16:10 is just 160 pixels more vertically, which is insignificant, and gives (bigger) black bars when watching movies and crappy viewing angles in first/third-person 3D games.
16:9 is much better for gaming.
Silent_Buddha
20-Jul-2011, 07:11
Why would the aspect matter? You get 2600*1440, that's way more than a 16:10 24" screen, which is mainstream. And 16:10 is just 160 pixels more vertically, which is insignificant, and gives (bigger) black bars when watching movies and crappy viewing angles in first/third-person 3D games.
16:9 is much better for gaming.
Not so insignificant that at 1600 pixels I'm still wishing for more vertical space when working. Hence why I also have a 16:10 24" monitor on the side in portrait view, although I dearly wish that monitor had a 4:3 aspect ratio rather than a 16:10 aspect ratio.
I'll never buy a 16:9 monitor as long as there are good 16:10 monitors available.
Regards,
SB
You were right, the new display is (again) 16:9, so it's not for you I guess. :) It's alright with me, I prefer the more cinematic sensation of this wider aspect ratio in most situations as long as I get at least 1080 vertical pixels. 720P is too cramped really for working, though gaming on it isn't a biggie.
The new Apple Thunderbolt Display (http://www.apple.com/displays/) (which doesn't seem to be available for purchase yet, meh) actually carries a full set of standard I/O ports on the back. No USB3 unfortunately, but rather 3x the ubiqutous USB2 and there's also gigabit ethernet and firewire 800, and a Thunderbolt passthrough connector as well. Not sure if that one is allowed to act as a video input though, or what happens if you hook up another Mac to it.
Plus the built-in camera is now dubbed "HD" - whatever that means in reality, I dunno. 1080P? Probably not, as it's undoubtedly an USB device and that bus just doesn't have the capacity to support such high resolutions. 720P seems more probable.
People say it's cheaper than the previous model too - the Swedish Apple Store still links to the previous model of screen so I can't check.
This (http://arstechnica.com/apple/reviews/2011/07/mac-os-x-10-7.ars) is a nice and rather lengthy review of the new MacOS X Lion. I'll summary a few points relevant to this thread:
1. Yes, you can now resize a window from all corners/edges!
2. An app launcher, similar to the iOS app grid.
3. Spaces, expose, dashboards, etc. are all integrated into a single thing.
4. Auto hiding scroll bars! No........!
5. You "don't have" to know which applications are running now (WHA?) (actually it looks like an elegant solution to an age old problem)
6. A "HiDPI" mode for those with very high DPI displays (basically it's similar to retina display in iOS 4)
This article also has some in-depth review of some internals, it's a pretty interesting read.
5. You "don't have" to know which applications are running now (WHA?) (actually it looks like an elegant solution to an age old problem)
So what IS the solution then? :D I haven't purchased lion (yet), because I'm a bit low on funds right now and don't want to splurge on any unneccessary stuffs, so I can't check myself.
Spotify and Steam for example attach menus to their dock icons if they're running, if I can't see they're running or not I wouldn't neccessarily get the menu when expecting to...which would be annoying. :razz:
6. A "HiDPI" mode for those with very high DPI displays (basically it's similar to retina display in iOS 4)
What such displays exist right now? The Cinema Display for example is higher DPI than a traditional 24" 1080P monitor, but not excessively so I believe. "4k"-type displays cost an absolute assload of money right now, and aren't even widely commercially available yet either, so why Apple would bother to put in a mode for them I dunno.
This article also has some in-depth review of some internals, it's a pretty interesting read.
Ugh, yes I read on another site it's very lengthy, so forgive me for not rushing over there right now and educating myself, and instead choosing to be lazy and asking you follow-up questions... :lol:
Ars articles are generally very good, and thorough however. It's one of my favorite websites and has been so for years.
This (http://arstechnica.com/apple/reviews/2011/07/mac-os-x-10-7.ars) is a nice and rather lengthy review of the new MacOS X Lion. I'll summary a few points relevant to this thread:
1. Yes, you can now resize a window from all corners/edges!
2. An app launcher, similar to the iOS app grid.
3. Spaces, expose, dashboards, etc. are all integrated into a single thing.
4. Auto hiding scroll bars! No........!
5. You "don't have" to know which applications are running now (WHA?) (actually it looks like an elegant solution to an age old problem)
6. A "HiDPI" mode for those with very high DPI displays (basically it's similar to retina display in iOS 4)
This article also has some in-depth review of some internals, it's a pretty interesting read.
I installed OS/X Lion ... could definitely afford the 23 euro that cost me from the App Store. :) I started a separate thread on it here (http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=60473). Maybe it should be in this sub-forum though ...
So what IS the solution then? :D I haven't purchased lion (yet), because I'm a bit low on funds right now and don't want to splurge on any unneccessary stuffs, so I can't check myself.
Actually it's quite simple, just like how iOS handles this. In Snow Leopard applications already can declare that they are safe to be terminated (such as they already saved all app status). Lion will now automatically terminate these applications if they have no open window and are not in focus when the OS needs some more resources.
This looks like an elegant solution because in many cases when you close all windows you may actually want to use the application soon. If the application is not actually terminated you will be able to relaunch (actually just tell it to open a new window) rather quickly. However, if you do not use that application for a long time the OS is still free to terminate it and release all resources.
Spotify and Steam for example attach menus to their dock icons if they're running, if I can't see they're running or not I wouldn't neccessarily get the menu when expecting to...which would be annoying. :razz:
Of course, you still have that "dot under the icon" indicator (although it can be disabled). :)
On the other hand, Lion does not want you to put everything you use on the dock anymore. Ironically this actually make dock more Windows-like, especially Windows 7. Therefore, if you see an icon on the dock, then it's most likely to be running (since most programs should not be on the dock anyway).
What such displays exist right now? The Cinema Display for example is higher DPI than a traditional 24" 1080P monitor, but not excessively so I believe. "4k"-type displays cost an absolute assload of money right now, and aren't even widely commercially available yet either, so why Apple would bother to put in a mode for them I dunno.
Well, this can be seen as poor man's resolution independence. Apple tried to do resolution independent UI from very long time ago, but it's really very hard to do it correctly, mostly due to compatibility problems. The ability to double resolution is a welcome one especially for older people who may want easier to read texts. If this proved to be successful, maybe we'll see higher resolution iMacs or monitors. It's really absurd for current leading OS (Windows 7 and MacOS X) to be designed to run with 96 dpi displays.
Lion will now automatically terminate these applications if they have no open window and are not in focus when the OS needs some more resources.
That's a pretty smart system I have to say.
On the other hand, Lion does not want you to put everything you use on the dock anymore.
Heh, dare I ask what they want you to use instead? :twisted:
Anyway, I quickly tossed almost all the default icons in the dock. Now I have just the stuff I use regularly, plus the apps/utilities or whaever they're called folders, and downloads (because it was put there by default, and hey... I may as well keep it because there's plenty room for it anyway. :))
The dock is OK, but not really that super duper awesome I think. It works, which is pretty much what I think of the MS start menu too. It tends to become extremely cluttered after a while, especially these days when many programs don't create their own subfolder, but rather just dump their icon straight into the root level of the menu. Even MS stuff does this, which I think is weird. They ought to have style guides saying this isn't kosher.
It's really absurd for current leading OS (Windows 7 and MacOS X) to be designed to run with 96 dpi displays.
Not sure what else you expect though, as large glass with high-DPI res is extremely difficult to produce reliably. Just look at all the supply issues Apple had with the iPhone4 display, and it's not even 4" I believe - it took nearly a year for the damn thing to become available in stock at all times. A similar DPI display at 21+ inches would cost if not millions so at least close enough that no ordinary human beings could afford it...
Not to mention, shifting that many pixels around would murder our graphics accelerators, and would require ultra-high bandwidth cable connections to the display, which would be costly in addition to the panel itself...
Anyhow, even though OSX annoys me in some ways, every time I turn off my PC and run just the Mac I'm struck just how QUIET the darned thing is... It barely makes any noise at all on idle, while my PC is a source of a constant wooshing noise from all its fans. While I tune out the sound most of the time, it's still there and I still notice it subconsciously.
With the Mac... Nothing. And, it's such a relief! If only Apple could release the darned thunderbolt display into retail already! I'd buy one tomorrow and never look back. The 19" LCD I have for the Mac now is ooold and crap (TN, from 2005), it suffers from "burn-in" and pixels are fading into black around its edges. I'm wondering if the liquid crystals are evaporating or something, it looks really weird.
PCs can be built for quietness too, you know...
Yeah, but to get a near-silent PC you have to ether achieve that with anemic components or jumping through ridiculous hoops, like watercooling your graphics cards at horrendous expense and such.
Then again, this laptop is the very definition of anemic, so I shouldn't rag on my PC... I selected the stuff in it to be big and bad, and that they are. There's a price that comes with that though. When gaming, it's well worth it. When just surfing the web and maybe listening to music - not so much.
After all, to speak is silver, but silence is golden, as the saying goes.
That's a pretty smart system I have to say.
It works well, but I do notice it in effect. I have a 2GB Mac Mini and you sometimes have to wait until you can use something again. Full screen apps are demanding in that regard as well, as they basically take up a chunck of 1650x1080 vram each. It's not super fast, but then neither is my Mac Mini. ;) And at 30Watt, I have little to complain about. I may see if I can upgrade the memory at some point.
Heh, dare I ask what they want you to use instead? :twisted:
The App Launch thing that is just like iOS devices. And I like it. I wish it was always there instead of my desktop background. Right now, I have it in the 'hot corner' top left, and the control center in the hot corner bottom left. That is a really good combination, I'm finding.
Anyway, I quickly tossed almost all the default icons in the dock. Now I have just the stuff I use regularly, plus the apps/utilities or whaever they're called folders, and downloads (because it was put there by default, and hey... I may as well keep it because there's plenty room for it anyway. :))
The dock is OK, but not really that super duper awesome I think. It works, which is pretty much what I think of the MS start menu too. It tends to become extremely cluttered after a while, especially these days when many programs don't create their own subfolder, but rather just dump their icon straight into the root level of the menu. Even MS stuff does this, which I think is weird. They ought to have style guides saying this isn't kosher.
It is out of date now I feel, and I would like to be able to configure it so that it only shows open applications and an interface to quit them easily like on iOS. Lion is a great step forward, but I definitely see what they could improve for next time.
Anyhow, even though OSX annoys me in some ways, every time I turn off my PC and run just the Mac I'm struck just how QUIET the darned thing is... It barely makes any noise at all on idle, while my PC is a source of a constant wooshing noise from all its fans. While I tune out the sound most of the time, it's still there and I still notice it subconsciously.
With the Mac... Nothing. And, it's such a relief! If only Apple could release the darned thunderbolt display into retail already! I'd buy one tomorrow and never look back. The 19" LCD I have for the Mac now is ooold and crap (TN, from 2005), it suffers from "burn-in" and pixels are fading into black around its edges. I'm wondering if the liquid crystals are evaporating or something, it looks really weird.
Yeah, PCs can be (or get) noisy, and some of the Apple stuff is a relief in that regard. My wife's desktop is getting pretty loud and I've had to mess with the fan a few times already (parts got dislodged over time). Then again, my Mac Mini is basically a laptop in a nice looking box, so it's not that strange that it is quiet.
I got a friend that's really interested in the Mini, you may have noticed the latest generation dropped in price (although it dropped the optical drive too - not that you really need one most of the time these days.)
I agree it's a really neat little machine. It looks good, and it's really really quiet I understand. More quiet than my Macbook Pro I'd think, since it has more room for cooling than in a cramped laptop. When you start loading the lappy the blower really spins up and becomes quite audible, although it's never anywhere as bad as my PC. It's a quite high-pitched noise though which can be a bit grating when gaming. Luckily I hardly ever do that though, because the sandy bridge's GMA3000 GPU doesn't really have the horsepower for it. :razz:
Not sure what else you expect though, as large glass with high-DPI res is extremely difficult to produce reliably. Just look at all the supply issues Apple had with the iPhone4 display, and it's not even 4" I believe - it took nearly a year for the damn thing to become available in stock at all times. A similar DPI display at 21+ inches would cost if not millions so at least close enough that no ordinary human beings could afford it...
Well, years ago it's already very common for notebooks to have higher than 96 DPI displays. For example, I had a Toshiba Libretto L2 about 8 years ago, it has a 10" 1280x600 display. That's about 140 DPI, and it's not very expensive either (I bought it for a little more than US$1,000 at that time). It's a nice little notebook, way before the "netbook" fever these days. Then my friend got a Sony PCG-U1, which is an even smaller notebook, with a 6.4" 1024x768 display. That's about 200 DPI, roughly twice of a traditional 96 DPI display. That's also about 7 ~ 8 years ago.
The reason why we don't have high DPI monitors, IMHO, is not technical restrictions, but software. Because there is no software support, there is no incentive for hardware vendors to make display cards supporting such high resolution (an 21" wide display for 200 DPI would be 3840x2160), therefore, no monitor vendor would release a high DPI display because no display card is able to support such high resolution, and then it goes back to the software, why support it if there's no hardware?
Personally I'm glad that Apple took the first step. Actually the first step is iPhone 4. The retina display makes my iPad 2 looks like crap. It's really great to have all texts so smooth. Normal desktop display does not need to be 300DPI, but 200DPI is a good target to go. With Lion now supporting double resolution mode, maybe a few years later Microsoft would follow up and hopefully we'll see some nice 200DPI desktop displays in maybe 5 years :)
Blazkowicz
25-Jul-2011, 16:21
how does that double resolution mode work, is it that bitmaps and UI elements are pixel doubled, but fonts and maybe vector objects stay high DPI?
how does that double resolution mode work, is it that bitmaps and UI elements are pixel doubled, but fonts and maybe vector objects stay high DPI?
Yeah, it's basically that. UI elements provided by the system and fonts are high DPI but bitmaps are low DPI. I believe that if you use normal graphics API (such as Quartz) you can also draw in high DPI. I'm not sure if it's possible in applications to detect this mode (I think it should be possible, just like iPhone 4's retina display).
This is a good screen shot demonstrating the effect (http://arstechnica.com/apple/reviews/2011/07/mac-os-x-10-7.ars/14)
If using a high quality scaling filter, 2x zoom should be near indistinguishable from a natiive image at that res, for stuff like UI elements, icons and so on. Saves some storage space too, heh...
*Edit:
Decided Lion wasn't that expensive a purchase, so it's downloading and installing now. I was going to hold out for the USB-stick version that was rumorly slated for an ~october release date AFAIR, but whattaheck. Just being able to close my laptop's lid with an external screen attached without the computer going into sleep mode on me will nearly be worth the full purchase price. :)
Personally I'm glad that Apple took the first step. Actually the first step is iPhone 4. The retina display makes my iPad 2 looks like crap. It's really great to have all texts so smooth. Normal desktop display does not need to be 300DPI, but 200DPI is a good target to go. With Lion now supporting double resolution mode, maybe a few years later Microsoft would follow up and hopefully we'll see some nice 200DPI desktop displays in maybe 5 years :)
It is definitely not wasted on a desktop - I have a 22" 1650x1080 monitor, but because I am sitting so close to it comparatively vs a TV set, the pixels are pretty large still for text in particular. The closer the pixels are to your eye, the more DPI counts, which is why high DPI generally comes first to mobile devices (not just because of production costs). But there is no question that laptops and then desktops will follow. So good on Apple for getting ready for it.
It is definitely not wasted on a desktop - I have a 22" 1650x1080 monitor
Your monitor is still only 90 DPI.
At 200 DPI you reach the limit of the human fovea from a 85cm viewing distance.
Cheers
I'm all for high-DPI screens, really, except that it puts such a strain on video cards in gaming situations. We'd need good scaling to show non-native resolutions efficiently on a high-DPI screen so we can game at more than 5FPS in Crysis 2/DX11 with a high-end video card setup... ;)
I'm all for high-DPI screens, really, except that it puts such a strain on video cards in gaming situations. We'd need good scaling to show non-native resolutions efficiently on a high-DPI screen so we can game at more than 5FPS in Crysis 2/DX11 with a high-end video card setup... ;)
Well, actually I think it's not a problem. If it's a really high DPI screen, it can use simple pixel doubling and it'd look like a normal low DPI screen. Since we are now OK with low DPI screen in 3D games, we shouldn't have problems with high DPI screens emulating low DPI screens. Not to mention that a simple bilinear or bicubic interpolation (on a properly AAed frame buffer) will make it even better.
Of course, it'd be even better if a game can selectively use different resolution for different parts. For example, texts can be in high resolution while other graphics still in low resolution (and then interpolated to higher resolution).
I think this is actually a very good business plan, as current LCD manufacturers are all struggling to maintain their ASP. If they make high DPI displays they can easily get a much better margin than current useless so-called "3D monitors."
Blazkowicz
27-Jul-2011, 20:16
3D monitors aren't so useless, you can ignore the 3D feature if you wish but running them at 120Hz 2D is good. for games mostly but even a command line or mouse cursor gets more smooth, responsive and low latency.
now here's quite a bandwith display problem as even the new displayport 1.2 will support either one (high dpi) or the other (120Hz) :razz:
Well, actually I think it's not a problem. If it's a really high DPI screen, it can use simple pixel doubling and it'd look like a normal low DPI screen.
It would require that LCD controller ASICs support this then. Usually their scaling is not terribly impressive (bilinear, most of the time).
Not to mention that a simple bilinear or bicubic interpolation (on a properly AAed frame buffer) will make it even better.
I'm a bit dubious. I'm thinking maybe interpolation will give a fuzzy, "vaseline-smeared" impression, despite the high DPI.
Of course, it'd be even better if a game can selectively use different resolution for different parts. For example, texts can be in high resolution while other graphics still in low resolution (and then interpolated to higher resolution).
That would pretty much require hardware support for overlays/multiple playfields wouldn't it, a la the old Amiga, and 2D consoles of yore?
Sounds nice, but maybe too much to hope for, especially if it needs software support by individual applications. Then it'd never happen unless it was an integral part of an API paradigm shift of some sort. Maybe the fabled dream of a fully scaleable, vectorized UI like Nextstep (or Irix, I believe. It was fucking slow anyhow, even running on quad-core Onyx graphics supercomputers back at the turn of the century.)
If they make high DPI displays they can easily get a much better margin than current useless so-called "3D monitors."
"Better margins" is double-talk for "higher prices", and the reason margins are so low is that people - gosh, whodathunkit! - don't like paying high prices... :razz:
Blazkowicz
27-Jul-2011, 22:51
pixel doubling in games is incredibly easy, it's pretty much what you get in the original doom when pressing the F5 key. HUD and other UI elements stay full res. duke 3D had the same option as well.
there's at least one recent game that allows decoupling of UI and game rendering resolution, though I totally forgot which it is.
I do not think the software side is hard, we've had render targets, compositing window managers, font rendering etc. for years.
desktop applications is where I can understand your concerns but we can default with everything pixel doubled, fonts rendered at high DPI, then everything ought to be fine.
I agree about the "vaseline filtering" problem, dumb pixel doubling does not suffer from that. you might/should get pixel doubling already if you run an old lcd panel at quarter res.
Blazkowicz
27-Jul-2011, 22:59
maybe one of the most pressing problems is high DPI can't get mainstream on computers yet. big investment costs for LCD panels, little reward for the vendors, very few compatible computers and devices, wrong display port versions etc. so they will run at low DPI in 99% cases.
when Intel build dp 1.2 / thunderbolt ports in every motherboard (and dedicated GPU can route to that) is when it can take off.
pixel doubling in games is incredibly easy, it's pretty much what you get in the original doom when pressing the F5 key.
Yeah, but that was with software rendering on the CPU, where you had full control of all elements drawn to the screen. It's a little more involved with 3D, where if you wanted lower-res polygon graphics and higher-res UI elements composited on top of each other you'd need to code every single piece of software to draw the 3D to a separate off-screen buffer, do a scaling blit into the framebuffer, then draw the UI on top, complicating the rendering and slowing down performance.
Without direct hardware support like overlays or such you'd need to re-code every game in existence to gain this functionality... Clearly an unworkable prospect.
I do not think the software side is hard, we've had render targets, compositing window managers, font rendering etc. for years.
The base functionality may be there on a fundamental level, but there's no unified take on it all, to bring everything together in one simple API. And again, you'd need application support for it to work, it can't be hacked in transparently after the fact.
"Better margins" is double-talk for "higher prices", and the reason margins are so low is that people - gosh, whodathunkit! - don't like paying high prices... :razz:
Actually, in many case it's not that people don't like paying high prices, it's there's nothing good enough to worth that price.
For example, back when LCD monitors were expensive, why were they expensive but people still bought them? Because they provided something better than cheaper alternative. Now there's no cheaper alternative, because LCD is now the cheap alternative. However, there is no new "better" product out there yet. LCD manufacturers are still experimenting with 3D display and LED backlit displays, but they are not good enough to justify the higher price. OLED has some chances but it's still much too expensive.
A high DPI display is another chance. If the market is mature, it has the potential to convince a lot of users to upgrade their monitors, and that could allow LCD manufacturers to make money again. So the incentive is there. The problem is the market is not mature yet.
Blazkowicz
27-Jul-2011, 23:29
sure there's a cost with the in-game compositing, and old or unpatched games won't be supported (so you'd run them at quarter res or full res). I propose living with that.
to be honest I noticed abnormal high CPU usage already on my PC when running the Compiz window manager. so I quickly disabled it. the X windowing system is an unfavourable case. Windows Aero is a counterexample of things working well.
so I agree, lots of potential for things working bad and other things working well.
but, even wiith a handful of compatible programs you'd get very useful results. what if you only have web browser, pdf reader, word processor and command line prompt as compatible software. This would be a nice incentive to get things done on a computer :razz:
Yeah, but that was with software rendering on the CPU, where you had full control of all elements drawn to the screen.
Actually with the way we have MLAA and FXAA type post-processing now I think that could work just fine.
I agree with the potential for high DPI screens coming first to the PC market. They are already attractive to some extent for high-end graphics users, and things will simply trickle down from there, and up from the iPhone to the iPad, to the laptops and desktops, and maybe only then to TV (where I know they've already been experimenting). And of course there is also the (cinema) projector business, which will probably drive for a higher resolution again at some point (or is already in the process).
I'm confuzzled right now... Pcchen: where is this little eject button you say should be next to an ejectable media? I don't get that for my USB drive, I have to right-click it (lucky I have a mouse supporting right-click, or I'd have to reach for the keyboard too...) and fiddle with the menu to accomplish that. Not really as convenient as if there'd been an on-screen button for the same thing.
Oh, and Skype still won't play ball with me without nagging when I try to quit it or restart/shutdown the computer. Can't find any option anywhere to turn that nonsense off. That it can delay indefinitely or outright cancel MY commands really bug the hell out of me. What the hell is up with that???
Strange. I"ll see if I can find something about Skype. In the meantime, the eject button may be on the top menu bar that also holds stuff like your remote connection, chat, facebook desktop, etc.? I think it was for my portable drive, haven't had an USB stick in there yet but I'll try.
EDIT: what version do you have? I am currently on 5.1, but there is a 5.2 available for download.
5.2.0.1523 to be precise, but it's been behaving the same way with all versions I've tried. I think I originally had 4.something first back in may when I bought this thing.
And I can't find any eject button on the menu bar either...
Speaking of menu bar, ever since I installed Lion I have my login account name announced in big letters right there on the menu bar. How the hell do I get rid of that? It's not anything I want to advertise to the whole world to see... I checked the Users & Groups System Preferences applet but can't seem to find anything relevant for it there.
I'm confuzzled right now... Pcchen: where is this little eject button you say should be next to an ejectable media? I don't get that for my USB drive, I have to right-click it (lucky I have a mouse supporting right-click, or I'd have to reach for the keyboard too...) and fiddle with the menu to accomplish that. Not really as convenient as if there'd been an on-screen button for the same thing.
Open the Finder (MacOS X's equivalent of Explorer), on the left side bar it should list all removable media, including USB drives and CD. There should be an eject button next to each listed media. You can see similar eject buttons in iTunes and iPhoto.
If you don't see any removable media listed, you may want to modify your settings in the preference dialog box, although I believe it's enabled by default.
Speaking of menu bar, ever since I installed Lion I have my login account name announced in big letters right there on the menu bar. How the hell do I get rid of that? It's not anything I want to advertise to the whole world to see... I checked the Users & Groups System Preferences applet but can't seem to find anything relevant for it there.
You are right to check the "Users & Groups" applet, but it's buried in the "login option" under the user list (with a house icon). Click on the "login option" brings up a new panel which allows you to set how to display "quick switch" function on the menu bar (or not to display at all).
Open the Finder (MacOS X's equivalent of Explorer), on the left side bar it should list all removable media
Oooh. Yes, now I see it. Silly I was looking at the desktop icon. :P Now, if there'd been an eject button next to the drive icon THERE, that would have been convenient... Though isn't it a mac thing to eject drives by throwing 'em in the trashbin? :razz:
it's buried in the "login option" under the user list (with a house icon).
Yes, I dug around some more - I'm still not entirely used to how OSX UI works and found it. Thanks for helping out though, it's appreciated. :D
Now the drive is encrypting itself by the way. Says ten hours (!) until done. Jesus...! :lol:
Onkl Bjorni
29-Jul-2011, 14:14
Though isn't it a mac thing to eject drives by throwing 'em in the trashbin? :razz:
Yes :lol:
Now, if there'd been an eject button next to the drive icon THERE, that would have been convenient.
There is for me!
http://i.imgur.com/jNIqo.png
There is for me!
I meant a little eject button next to the volume icon OSX puts up on the desktop when you insert a removable drive (also, some software install packages seem to count as virtual drives it seems...) That would be super convenient, and even a notoriously impatient person like myself would be hard-pressed to not use it. :)
Blazkowicz
01-Aug-2011, 09:10
looking good,
let me be the first to say, that mac stuff we sometimes hear of looks like Gnome :twisted:
I discovered yesterday I haven't been running on 5GHz wifi, but rather crappy ol 2.3GHz or thereabouts anyway. I was led to believe the Time Capsule automatically created a 5GHz network (and there's no built-in way to ascertain what frequency I'm running on either that I know of), so I just figured I was on 5GHz already. So, lo and behold, I discover I need to enable 5GHz separately in a different settings window, ugh.
So I switched. Maybe now my magic mouse will stop crapping out on me periodically... Transfer speed not particularly good anyway, about 10MB/s in a QnD test on a single 150MB file using a stopwatch. Not sure what's up with that, I think I should get better speed, but whatever.
Is too much signal strength a bad thing? I have a rather small apartment and the laptop is quite near the Time Capsule, less than 2 meters actually. I knocked down transmitter power to 50%, but maybe I should reduce further?
Blazkowicz
02-Aug-2011, 04:54
10MB/s with wireless is great, last time I used wifi of the single channel 2.4GHz variant, we would transfer files at 1MB/s over ssh.
what you get does not feel wrong, theoretical rates are bunk and create unreasonable expectations.
Ok, if you say so. :) I've never really used wireless before, I've kept to wired on purpose. However, with a laptop it makes too much sense to use wifi, so I do. :) Still, the huge discrepancy between theoretical max performance and real-world performance is...well, humongous. Surely I should be able to reach at least upwards of 50% efficiency? I'm getting less than a quarter for crying out loud with just two devices on the wireless network, optimal test scenario (wide channels enabled, one big continuous file being transferred) and no line-of-sight obstructions, that's depressing.
Anyway, thank you. I appreciate your input. :)
Pressure
02-Aug-2011, 11:39
Shortcuts really isn't that hard to learn.
To eject something, simply click on it and push Command + E. Be it in finder, desktop or whatever.
Learn the basic shortcuts of the operating system (http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1343) and you will be flying in no time.
Another cool trick in Mac OS X and using a supported browser / application you can hover your mouse over any word and push down CTRL + Command + D and you get the dictionary or Thesaurus.
You can also inverse all colors (sometimes I need it in Photoshop) by clicking on Ctrl + Option + Command + 8 .
Pressure
02-Aug-2011, 11:45
I discovered yesterday I haven't been running on 5GHz wifi, but rather crappy ol 2.3GHz or thereabouts anyway. I was led to believe the Time Capsule automatically created a 5GHz network (and there's no built-in way to ascertain what frequency I'm running on either that I know of), so I just figured I was on 5GHz already. So, lo and behold, I discover I need to enable 5GHz separately in a different settings window, ugh.
So I switched. Maybe now my magic mouse will stop crapping out on me periodically... Transfer speed not particularly good anyway, about 10MB/s in a QnD test on a single 150MB file using a stopwatch. Not sure what's up with that, I think I should get better speed, but whatever.
Is too much signal strength a bad thing? I have a rather small apartment and the laptop is quite near the Time Capsule, less than 2 meters actually. I knocked down transmitter power to 50%, but maybe I should reduce further?
You can always hold down the Option key when clicking on the Wi-Fi symbol (or other symbols) on the menu line to get a quick overview of the settings.
It also means you quickly can change Sound In/Out devices to use etc.
10MB/s with wireless is greatyeah, until you compare it with wired connection that gets 10x as much throughput with ease :razz:
yeah, until you compare it with wired connection that gets 10x as much throughput with ease :razz:
I believe it's 10Mbytes/s, so 10x would be 100MB/s and that's difficult for even GbE.
Anyway, there are just too many things to go wrong with wireless. 2.4GHz is a very crowded frequency, so I'd not be surprised if the performance is no where near peak. For example, my Mac mini, with 802.11n, is only less than one meter away from my three antenna IP router, is running @ 130Mbps mode. Real tests with stop watch is also around 10MB/s.
At home my gbit lan could easily move around stuff at 80-90MB/s and I'm fairly certain the bottleneck was the laptop HDD on the receiving end.
Wifi is convenient only as long as you don't care about speed. Having to move things around at several times slower speed is not convenient imho. I'd just plug a cable and be done with it, especially if I'm at home and couple of meters from the router anyway.
I believe it's 10Mbytes/s, so 10x would be 100MB/s and that's difficult for even GbE.
GbE can crack 100 with ease if you have fast enough disk I/O. SSD, or Raid0 array for example.
Anyway, there are just too many things to go wrong with wireless. 2.4GHz is a very crowded frequency, so I'd not be surprised if the performance is no where near peak
Yeah, except I'm on 5GHz now, much less crowded, and the network utility reports 450Mbit/s link speed. Holding down Alt and clicking the wifi icon reports transmit rate of 160-360ish - it fluctuates rather a lot it seems - wigamawaggles per second, or whatever the unit of measure is in this case. :razz: RSSI is at -44 (dB, I guess.)
At home my gbit lan could easily move around stuff at 80-90MB/s and I'm fairly certain the bottleneck was the laptop HDD on the receiving end.
I believe you can if there's nothing else running on the network, but considering even end-to-end test with memory transfer generally gives only ~110MB/s at best, I'd say it's fair to say > 100MB/s qualify as "difficult best case" scenario :)
WiFi can be sometimes extremely unstable. For example, I connected my PS3 with wired GbE because it can't play HD H.264 files over WiFi smoothly (those files are only 25Mbps IIRC).
PS3 doesn't support 5GHz operation though, nor does it offer N compatibility AFAIK, unless it has been added recently to one of the latest slim revisions. Even if it's there, I doubt it offers multi-antenna support, for cost reasons, so PS3 isn't ever going to be an example of a good wifi implementation...
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