Blackberry Playbook [Archive]

Exophase

28-Sep-2010, 05:17

Correct, Marvell doesn't make a Cortex-A9 SoC, neither does Qualcomm. So that leaves OMAP4 or Tegra 2. Unfortunately, Tegra 2 is more likely, but the lack of 3D on the specs would make that a bit peculiar. If it really doesn't have 3D it'd have to be an OMAP4 variant without the SGX.

... does anyone else think "PlayBook" is a really dumb name for a "professional" tablet?

EDIT: Never mind what I said about 3D, QNX dude said it at the end.

I also found that presentation kind of.. not very good.. The first guy was dry and not very good at speaking (GHz of RAM, heh). As for the second half.. hyping up QNX by showing how widely used it is in real time embedded platforms that couldn't be further removed from a user tablet does not seem impressive to me. And I kind of doubt it's reaching any of the non-technically oriented crowd that comprises most of their buyers.

codedivine

28-Sep-2010, 05:24

Correct, Marvell doesn't make a Cortex-A9 SoC, neither does Qualcomm. So that leaves OMAP4 or Tegra 2. Unfortunately, Tegra 2 is more likely, but the lack of 3D on the specs would make that a bit peculiar. If it really doesn't have 3D it'd have to be an OMAP4 variant without the SGX.

... does anyone else think "PlayBook" is a really dumb name for a "professional" tablet?

They clearly mention OpenGL is supported but a OpenGL ES logo is painted on the wall, so I assume they mean ES. They called it a great gaming platform so I am hoping it does have a good GPU. Version was not mentioned. OpenVG logo was also painted behind the wall.

phat

28-Sep-2010, 05:25

For native English speakers, a "playbook" is a book of strategies, so the name makes sense there, but I can see that it might not have tested well internationally.

Exophase

28-Sep-2010, 05:55

darkblu

28-Sep-2010, 06:52

Hey, the QNX tablet is finally out - nice! Now HP need to hurry up with the WebOS one and we'll have again the entire gang.

Correct, Marvell doesn't make a Cortex-A9 SoC, neither does Qualcomm. So that leaves OMAP4 or Tegra 2. Unfortunately, Tegra 2 is more likely, but the lack of 3D on the specs would make that a bit peculiar. If it really doesn't have 3D it'd have to be an OMAP4 variant without the SGX.
The A9 mentioning is really key here, having in mind RIM's long history with Marvel. Tegra is most definitely an interesting possibility, and RIM might be the rumored 'secret big client' that indirectly brought to the platform's delays on the Linux/Android fronts. People have been wondereding what else NV might have been focusing their resources on, if not Linux/Android, and QNX might be the answer.

Laurent06

28-Sep-2010, 09:50

So that leaves OMAP4 or Tegra 2.
You forgot ST and Samsung SoC all of which are said to reach mass production 1H'10.

tangey

28-Sep-2010, 11:33

Could it be the new 3-core Armade 628. Clearly they don't want to give the details, and saying it had 3-cores would have gave the game away immediately. The PR for the 628 does refer to "quad unified shaders ", the QNX boss talked about "multiple shader arrays", which is not terminolgy you normally hear licencees/ end users of IMG-ed products use, specifcally TI doesn't use that term in the Omap4 materials.

Laurent06

28-Sep-2010, 13:41

Armada 628 press release (http://www.marvell.com/company/news/press_detail.html?releaseID=1440) "Marvell-designed, ARM-compliant CPU cores".
This would contradict the claim the PlayBook uses Cortex-A9 which an ARM Ltd design.

tangey

28-Sep-2010, 14:22

Depends how exact the RIM press department were being I suppose, given they were deliberately ensuring that the AP can NOT be identified by being vague on the graphics core.

I'm sure they *could* argue later if they wanted to that something that is v7MP compatible is in effect at least an A9MP equivalent.

the playbook is however looking more like tegra2

tangey

28-Sep-2010, 14:31

You forgot ST and Samsung SoC all of which are said to reach mass production 1H'10.

Undestand you meant 1H'11, however QNX have come out and specifically stated the Rim playbook does NOT use Mali. (strange thing to say, why specifically go there, unless there was some bad relationships between samsung/Rim or Arm-Mali/Rim).

So assuming the samsung dual core-A9 is mali, which is looking likely, then thats excluded.

http://www.techradar.com/news/mobile-computing/blackberry-playbook-what-you-need-to-know-719623#ixzz10oUcRqPn

Scott_Arm

28-Sep-2010, 15:29

I'm a big fan of QNX, so I have high hopes for the OS. Lots of features in this one that were lacking in the iPad that turned me away from it.

HDMI out (1080p)
Good video codec support
USB (mini)
A good browser (standards + flash)
Good size (smaller and lighter than iPad)

If it has a good price, I'd be interested. It would be a nice little device to bring back and forth from other people's houses etc.

tangey

28-Sep-2010, 15:53

someone just reminded me that Boxee dropped Tegra2 because of lousy 1080P H264 decoding, which was discussed on the tegra thread here:-

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1471476&postcount=301

If its true, then either Boxee just couldn't get it to work, or it throws doubt on the RIM playbook being Tegra2, as they are quoting 1080p H264 playback.

Arun

28-Sep-2010, 16:13

1080p H.264 is fine on Tegra2, the problem is the bitrate is very limited if you use CABAC, and Boxee realised based on customer feedback that they needed to support Bluray, which NO handheld-centric SoC supports today (OMAP4 is 20Mbps max), but many will in the next-gen, including at least the Armada 628 and (afaik) Tegra3. Which is why Boxee claim they'll evaluate Tegra3.

This is apparently T2 or OMAP4, with a very low probability of Qualcomm too.

AlphaWolf

28-Sep-2010, 22:44

Yeah I get the sports analogy, although I don't think that really screams professional either... but what first comes to my mind when "PlayBook" is mentioned in the context of an electronic device is something you play with.

Apple has overcome sounding like a feminine product, I'm sure Blackberry can overcome sounding less professional.

Exophase

28-Sep-2010, 23:44

You forgot ST and Samsung SoC all of which are said to reach mass production 1H'10.

STMicro's Cortex-A9 is only 600MHz. Samsung's Orion seems way too new - compare with the amount of time it took even Samsung to use S5PC110 after they announced it.

If we're going to list all of them there's also NEC's and Nufront's, probably others.. but I don't know if they'd be very suitable for this market either. Tegra seems most obvious to me, by far.

tangey

06-Oct-2010, 13:15

Increasing Playbook speculation that RIM dropped the Armada 628 at the last minute and swapped for TI Omap4, due to the 628 having issues.

http://www.phonearena.com/htmls/BlackBerry-PlayBook-missed-out-on-the-holiday-season-due-to-glitches-article-a_13762.html

http://www.thestreet.mobi/story/10880513/1/marvell-down-ti-up-on-rim-chip-swap.html

Scott_Arm

06-Oct-2010, 18:04

I always find the previous BlackPad moniker funny, because its also the name of a PCB defect. There is no way RIM would have called this thing BlackPad.

Oh, and I keep getting more and more interested in this thing, because I was such a huge fan of QNX when I was using it in school. It's a hard real-time OS with great stability and performance.

Lazy8s

06-Dec-2010, 22:57

OMAP4, then.

This thing has some great potential.

Entropy

08-Dec-2010, 11:50

Oh, and I keep getting more and more interested in this thing, because I was such a huge fan of QNX when I was using it in school. It's a hard real-time OS with great stability and performance.

I have a soft spot for QNX as well since times long gone. Wouldn't say that it has all that much relevance in the overall scheme of things, but at least you know that the guys involved with the base OS has thought long, hard and well on the issues aroung multiprocessing and responsiveness, which is reassuring. Of course, once you build a commercial platform on top of it, who knows how it will go. Flash, anyone? ;)

Of course other issues will decide how well it does in the market place. I kinda like WebOS and its base functionality as well, but there has to be compelling devices and good apps, and at this point in time iOS and Android has significant leads in OS stability/app support and device/carrier options respectively, and I can't see that Blackberry brings anything compelling to the table other than their brand name to the IT departments who are comfortable with it.

wco81

29-Dec-2010, 09:14

If this is true, so much for QNX:

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2010/12/analyst-rim-playbook-tablet-performance-comes-at-a-cost.ars

ToTTenTranz

29-Dec-2010, 11:49

If this is true, so much for QNX:

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2010/12/analyst-rim-playbook-tablet-performance-comes-at-a-cost.ars

Oops.

Valzic

30-Dec-2010, 17:12

RIM has issued a response to those rumors.

http://crackberry.com/rim-official-statement-regarding-rumors-poor-battery-life-blackberry-playbook

wco81

30-Dec-2010, 18:53

"Comparable" battery life. And they're still working to optimize.

If it was half of what the Galaxy was getting, they'd delay the release until it was in the same range. They'll be pressed at CES to firm up a release date.

We'll see.

wishiknew

30-Dec-2010, 19:02

Just reaching the Galaxy Tab's battery life would still leave it quite short of the ipad.

wco81

30-Dec-2010, 19:40

There was a story about how Apple is locking up supplies of 9.7 inch screens for the next year or two.

So most competitors would have to play in the 7 or 5-inch tablet space.

Maybe expectations for battery life with smaller tablets are more modest (counterintuitive, because a bigger screen should consume more battery but of course, with a bigger footprint, you have the opportunity to pack more battery mass in as Apple has done with the iPad).

Remains to be seen how the market will trade size/weight with battery life.

ToTTenTranz

30-Dec-2010, 23:58

idsn6

31-Dec-2010, 00:33

Meh, I'll take widescreen 10" over weird-apple-proprietary-aspect-ratio 9.7" anytime.

I wouldn't really need much more than 6 hours of battery time for a tablet, anyway. Who does?

1024x768 is a "weird-apple-proprietary-aspect-ratio" now? Enjoy your JooJoo.

ToTTenTranz

31-Dec-2010, 00:44

1024x768 is a "weird-apple-proprietary-aspect-ratio" now? Enjoy your JooJoo.

I thought it was the same weird aspect ratio from the iphones and ipods.
Whatever, no one uses 1024*768 anymore.

JooJoo? You conveniently forgot all about Viewsonic G, Folio 100, Archos 101 and all the other 10" 16:9 tablets in the market?

Scott_Arm

31-Dec-2010, 01:56

Still looking forward to this device. I have to get around to doing some dev work on it.

silent_guy

31-Dec-2010, 07:53

I wouldn't really need much more than 6 hours of battery time for a tablet, anyway. Who does?
Number one question of my mother when she asked about an iPad: "Do I have to recharge it every day?" Big relief when I told her once a week was sufficient for her kind of use. (She's allergic to any kind of cable.)

For many people, battery life is more than continuous use (exotic aspect ratio or not :razz:).

(Seriously: you prefer less pixels over more pixels? 1024x600 over 1024x768? That must be a first.)

rpg.314

31-Dec-2010, 08:07

I wouldn't really need much more than 6 hours of battery time for a tablet, anyway. Who does?

IMO, a tablet is meant for continuous use. Hence you can never have enough battery life.

Xmas

31-Dec-2010, 12:17

I thought it was the same weird aspect ratio from the iphones and ipods.
Whatever, no one uses 1024*768 anymore.

JooJoo? You conveniently forgot all about Viewsonic G, Folio 100, Archos 101 and all the other 10" 16:9 tablets in the market?
Talking about weird aspect ratios, the JooJoo is 16:9 while those other tablets are all ~17:10. ;)
(Ok, there's the Zenithink ePad, but ... let's just ignore it)

I prefer the iPad's 4:3, though.

Valzic

31-Dec-2010, 16:20

iPad's 4:3 ratio...

We been run through the changes in screen sizes all ready in our monitors, finally replaced last of my monitors in my home systems to 16:9. I really would like to see standardized sizes for even the tablets.

I can see Apple announcing next year - Replace your iPad 1/2 with NEW 16:9 screen ratios... and people in droves doing it then.

I too have been contemplating doing some development work on the Playbook as I can see an application for my customers where security is important. It would never sell on the iPad and TAB otherwise.

digitalwanderer

31-Dec-2010, 18:37

I just went from a Blackberry 8830 to a Zio, and Android just totally kills Blackberry for software/interface/etc.

The Zio is a bit underpowered, but my wife's Optimus is just the shits. Had to mention it since I've been a BB user for years and the switch just blew me away in a totally positive way. :)

Scott_Arm

31-Dec-2010, 20:18

The blackberry mobile OS is pretty messed up right now. With the recent acquisitions of QNX and TAT (The Astonishing Tribe, http://www.tat.se/what-we-do/), I imagine their phones will be getting a big overhaul. Tablet OS is completely independent from the mobile OS, so I can be excited about it.

Valzic

01-Jan-2011, 16:30

Yeah... TAT did the initial Android interface so I expect that Blackberry phones will pretty well be looking a lot different by the end of 2011.

The acquisition of QNX in 2010 really indicates that a major overhaul is in the works from a UI and OS system perspective. Like many OS's the original purpose for which they were designed starts to hinder progress. Sometimes its time to start fresh.

Hopefully RIM will take this opportunity to reinvent itself while they are immensely profitable.

Personally, I think this first development of UI/QNX on the tablet is an enormous advantage. Who knows what limitations Android and Apple might have moving from a limited device (phones) to basically a computing device. The phones this year will start the dual + core craze, and moving QNX to that may be easier that adjusting iOS and Android to way better hardware. There may be bunch of legacy issues embedded that are inherent in the core of the OS to handle phones of the current and last two years.

Only time will tell.

Xmas

02-Jan-2011, 00:15

Valzic

03-Jan-2011, 05:04

True -- but Apple does only 4:3 ratio so if you are used to using 16:10 or 16:9 ratios and design programs based on that, you are stuck.

/sarcasm

Actually tablets all are NO choice... whomever makes...

Choice is always good, we have on PC's and not on tablets :)

Entropy

03-Jan-2011, 12:21

Personally, I think this first development of UI/QNX on the tablet is an enormous advantage. Who knows what limitations Android and Apple might have moving from a limited device (phones) to basically a computing device. The phones this year will start the dual + core craze, and moving QNX to that may be easier that adjusting iOS and Android to way better hardware. There may be bunch of legacy issues embedded that are inherent in the core of the OS to handle phones of the current and last two years.

Only Apple and Android are not building on legacy phone OSs, they are building on top of Darwin and Linux kernels respectively. These products have started out on a computing device foundation. And Apple, of course, was predictably criticized for it. :)

It's simply RIM who is late to the party.

Of course, the success of an OS depends more on what (quality) services are built on top of the core, and even more on software availability and inertia. RIM is late to the party on more accounts than one.

Scott_Arm

04-Jan-2011, 16:01

vI1VgedbMUY

Lazy8s

04-Jan-2011, 16:25

The flash videos, even when emdedded in a complex website, seem to render at/near full frame rate.

I only wish all UI transitions were at 60 fps.

AlphaWolf

06-Jan-2011, 21:32

The press had a chance for a hands on yesterday, response seemed pretty positive. Rim stock bumped ~5%.
http://gizmodo.com/5726902/money-shot-the-blackberry-playbook-tablet

Scott_Arm

07-Jan-2011, 01:44

AlphaWolf

07-Jan-2011, 02:08

I like what I saw. The only real complaint going around is about the native email and calendar being reliant on having a blackberry. Basically, you sync your blackberry to the playbook, and then you can access your mail and calendar through a native client. If you don't have a blackberry with blackberry service, you can't use them. To me, it isn't a big deal because the large format and full-featured browser mean I can check my gmail and other web services like I would on my computer. And I'm sure there will be a Google Apps app, and a Facebook app etc.

ya I just cycle all my email through gmail so its a non issue. And as you said I'm sure there will be 3rd party email and calendar apps in any event, so it really doesn't cripple the device.

Pressure

07-Jan-2011, 12:22

I like what I saw. The only real complaint going around is about the native email and calendar being reliant on having a blackberry. Basically, you sync your blackberry to the playbook, and then you can access your mail and calendar through a native client. If you don't have a blackberry with blackberry service, you can't use them. To me, it isn't a big deal because the large format and full-featured browser mean I can check my gmail and other web services like I would on my computer. And I'm sure there will be a Google Apps app, and a Facebook app etc.

Why would you care about having an application for Google or Facebook, if having a native application for email and calendar isn't a big deal for you?

You can also access Facebook and Google from the browser.

I can see it do well in the minuscule market RIM currently possesses but that is about it.

Xmas

07-Jan-2011, 12:51

http://www.slashgear.com/blackberry-playbook-demo-and-hands-on-by-mike-lazaridis-07124552/
Some interesting demos at the end of the video there...

Simon F

07-Jan-2011, 13:37

http://www.slashgear.com/blackberry-playbook-demo-and-hands-on-by-mike-lazaridis-07124552/
Some interesting demos at the end of the video there...
At the 6 minute mark, I suppose?

AlphaWolf

07-Jan-2011, 18:35

Impressive performance in that vid. Certainly kicks the crap out of an ipads.

Scott_Arm

07-Jan-2011, 18:41

Why would you care about having an application for Google or Facebook, if having a native application for email and calendar isn't a big deal for you?

You can also access Facebook and Google from the browser.

I can see it do well in the minuscule market RIM currently possesses but that is about it.

Huh?

I don't care about having an application for Google or Facebook. I'd just use the browser, like I do on my PC. I'm sure they will have apps for those people that want them.

The Blackberry market isn't exactly minuscule.

Pressure

07-Jan-2011, 20:08

Huh?

I don't care about having an application for Google or Facebook. I'd just use the browser, like I do on my PC. I'm sure they will have apps for those people that want them.

The Blackberry market isn't exactly minuscule.

Ah ok, I misunderstood then. It just feels weird that one really have to be locked into the Blackberry eco-system to use 2 important and fundamental features, as calendar and email.

Being from Europe, I usually consider worldwide coverage, hence my comment on RIM being a distant second to nearly every other mobile provider.

Nonetheless I still find the PlayBook interesting, although I doubt it will come further than North America.

Scott_Arm

07-Jan-2011, 20:15

Is Blackberry not big in Europe? I thought they were pretty big worldwide. They still have a very large chunk of the smartphone market here.

Yeah, the decision with the mail and calendar is a bit strange. I know for your blackberry services, they want you to piggyback through the phone because of security, for some reason. I'm not sure why they couldn't make the mail and calendar clients available for a regular IMAP or POP service. There will undoubtably be mail and calendar apps to address that need in the app store.

AlphaWolf

07-Jan-2011, 23:54

Blackberry doesn't have much marketshare, yet Research in Motion recorded about twice the profit of Nokia. Could it be because they completely dominate the highly profitable business market? Note this is with 45% revenue growth in their last quarterly report, so they aren't exactly falling away.

And apparently Blackberry is the number one selling smartphone in the UK (http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/2010/12/16/research-motion-q-profit-jumps-higher-revenue).

On a conference call Thursday, RIM said international sales of the BlackBerry continued to surge, with 48% of its subscriber base now located outside of North America. RIM co-Chief Executive Jim Balsillie said the BlackBerry is the top-selling smartphone in several Latin American and European markets, including the U.K. He said in the U.K. the number of prepaid smartphone subscribers, people who purchase smartphones without signing up for a long-term carrier contract, is surging, more than tripling year over year. "RIM is taking advantage of these dynamics to leverage our unique position and grow the business to record levels," he said.

There's no question that blackberry is facing increased competition in NA from Android and iPhone, but I don't think they are quite dead yet.

Scott_Arm

08-Jan-2011, 00:23

AlphaWolf

08-Jan-2011, 00:28

I have no illusions that the playbook will take a huge percentage of the tablet market, or even remotely come close to challenging the iPhone, but that doesn't mean it can't be a good business and a good product. I'm very interested in getting one.

I'll be a day one purchase if its performance is anything like what I've seen in the videos. I'd love to see Apple have to innovate a bit for their 2nd gen to compete.

aaronspink

08-Jan-2011, 03:54

aaronspink

08-Jan-2011, 03:57

RIM is something like 30-40% of the smartphone market in the USA and the number is dropping, but the total number of subscribers is increasing. It's still an extremely profitable business, even if it is a little more niche in terms of users. I have no illusions that the playbook will take a huge percentage of the tablet market, or even remotely come close to challenging the iPhone, but that doesn't mean it can't be a good business and a good product. I'm very interested in getting one.

I wouldn't really say that the BB is a niche market. I think it is more appropriate to look at it in terms of new submarkets within the smartphone market. android/iphone/WP7 isn't really moving into the BB market. There was a lot of analysis when Apple first released the iphone that it wasn't so much taking over the existing market for smartphones but creating whole new markets.

Lazy8s

08-Jan-2011, 09:27

Wow... that video is exactly the kind of product demo I like to see from shows like this. Seriously impressive.

Arun

08-Jan-2011, 09:43

That's extremely impressive indeed. I noticed at 7:40 that the 3D demo on the right was very choppy until they made it fullscreen (i.e. presumably stopped rendering the other demos at the same time), but even that happens in a very smooth way (i.e. the rest of the interface and scrolling isn't slowed down one bit)!

Ailuros

08-Jan-2011, 10:30

Would it be too much to expect the 540 in that one to be clocked over 300MHz?

Scott_Arm

08-Jan-2011, 17:48

Question: I've never done any ActionScript development. Anyone know a good IDE for Mac? Seems you can't do it in Xcode. I'd like to make a playbook app. Flash Builder isn't free, and I'd prefer free. I'm not a huge fan of Eclipse, but I think it can do ActionScript 3 with the right plugins.

rpg.314

08-Jan-2011, 17:51

Seems you can't do it in Xcode.It will be cold day in hell when you can.

Exophase

08-Jan-2011, 19:08

Would it be too much to expect the 540 in that one to be clocked over 300MHz?

Okay, so Lazy8s mysteriously said "OMAP4 it is, then." on the first page, and now you're saying that as well... I've heard rumor for OMAP4 elsewhere; does anyone have an actual source on this?

roninja

08-Jan-2011, 22:39

Well it's pretty obvious it's an Omap4430 how many other Cortex A9 SoCs are ready and the video confirms PowerVR so we know it's an SGX540. Not sure of the clock speed but I'm sure if Ailuros is hinting might not be far off.

Exophase

08-Jan-2011, 23:33

argor

08-Jan-2011, 23:54

How many other Cortex-A9 SoCs are ready? Tegra 2, obviously. Just because the video had it running IMG demos doesn't confirm that it uses IMG chips, unless it's confirmed they won't run on Tegra. I'm not trying to dispute the SoC, I'm just looking for the most concrete evidence possible I can present to show it isn't Tegra 2.
as it is a imgtec demo it all almost certainly use PVRTC for textures
imgtec gpu cores are the only ones that supports PVRTC rite now
and the playbook has already been confirmed to have dual arm a9
1+1
=
omap4

ToTTenTranz

09-Jan-2011, 01:23

http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/08/rims-blackberry-playbook-purportedly-using-a-1ghz-omap-4430-pro/

OMAP4430.

There, no more suppositions

Ailuros

09-Jan-2011, 07:43

How many other Cortex-A9 SoCs are ready? Tegra 2, obviously. Just because the video had it running IMG demos doesn't confirm that it uses IMG chips, unless it's confirmed they won't run on Tegra. I'm not trying to dispute the SoC, I'm just looking for the most concrete evidence possible I can present to show it isn't Tegra 2.

Well seeing in that demo how it runs the PVR demos it would be a cold day in hell when T2 would be able to run the shader views demo with that kind of performance and even more so with other 3D applications in parallel. SGX has a distinct advantage over the competition with post processing; there are two demos based on that on IMG's website.

darkblu

10-Jan-2011, 12:45

http://www.slashgear.com/blackberry-playbook-demo-and-hands-on-by-mike-lazaridis-07124552/
Some interesting demos at the end of the video there...
I always suspected IMG had a shady realtime-raytracing 'other side', but now I know it ;p

ToTTenTranz

10-Jan-2011, 14:24

Raytracing?
Is the windows demo actually doing raytracing?
I had that demo in my i8910 (Symbian^1), never imagined it was raytracing.

Ailuros

10-Jan-2011, 14:24

I always suspected IMG had a shady realtime-raytracing 'other side', but now I know it ;p

Ok and here comes the layman's dumb question: what has post processing with ray tracing in common?

ToTTenTranz

10-Jan-2011, 14:34

Ok and here comes the layman's dumb question: what has post processing with ray tracing in common?

The guy in the video says the windows demo is real time raytracing.

He could just be babbling marketing BS with no knowledge of raytracing whatsoever, though..

Rys

10-Jan-2011, 14:48

It's one of our pixel shader effects demos.

darkblu

11-Jan-2011, 00:57

Ok and here comes the layman's dumb question: what has post processing with ray tracing in common?
Mike Lazaridis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Lazaridis), apparently ; )

Scott_Arm

11-Jan-2011, 01:04

Nobody likes actionscript on Mac? I need to write an app and get me a free playbook.

AlphaWolf

10-Feb-2011, 01:36

http://crackberry.com/blackberry-playbook-heading-office-depot

Looks like $499 for the 16GB/wifi and in stores end of march (or early april).

wco81

10-Feb-2011, 22:26

That would be way more competitive than the rumored price for the Moto Xoom.

Though you may have to figure in the price of a Blackberry and service too.

AlphaWolf

10-Feb-2011, 23:02

That would be way more competitive than the rumored price for the Moto Xoom.

Though you may have to figure in the price of a Blackberry and service too.

Rumor is there's going to be versions of the playbook with 3G (4G?) as well, supposedly verizon and sprint are online.

in other news a version of Need for Speed and Tetris will be available as launch titles. <edit> tetris will be preloaded and NFS will be available for download for free when you connect to Wifi.

Brad Grenz

11-Feb-2011, 03:34

That would be way more competitive than the rumored price for the Moto Xoom.

Though you may have to figure in the price of a Blackberry and service too.

The Xoom could seem like the odd man out if HP's TouchPad launches at that same $500 price point.

Scott_Arm

17-Feb-2011, 19:47

jbZ9iNKw4No

This thing seriously looks really awesome, and The Astonishing Tribe is doing some NICE stuff.

AlphaWolf

17-Feb-2011, 21:19

This thing seriously looks really awesome, and The Astonishing Tribe is doing some NICE stuff.
Yep. The photo gallery UI thing looked really smooth.

Scott_Arm

02-Mar-2011, 19:49

Playbook development will include native, java, flash, web and possibly Android?

http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/02/the-engadget-interview-ryan-bidan-blackberry-playbook-senior-p/

AlphaWolf

02-Mar-2011, 19:55

Playbook development will include native, java, flash, web and possibly Android?

http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/02/the-engadget-interview-ryan-bidan-blackberry-playbook-senior-p/

There's been a persistent rumor about android app support, and one of the guys at the blackberry booth even let that slip at the MWC.

wuuxDVTf2nw

Audio at about the 14 second mark.

Erinyes

03-Mar-2011, 07:16

Im not a lawyer so im not sure, but wouldnt they require authorization/permission from Google to use Android apps?

Brad Grenz

03-Mar-2011, 07:46

Could it basically be running an Android install inside a VM?

Lazy8s

03-Mar-2011, 08:34

The 60 Hz adds so much to the polish and perception of responsiveness.

The OS and those TAT GUIs really reflect how powerful of a hardware platform this is.

Xmas

03-Mar-2011, 16:12

Im not a lawyer so im not sure, but wouldnt they require authorization/permission from Google to use Android apps?
They won't have access to the Android Market, but you don't need permission from Google to run third party Android apps. Android itself is released under the Apache Software License, thus anyone can use it.

Scott_Arm

03-Mar-2011, 20:15

Could it basically be running an Android install inside a VM?

Android apps run in a virtual machine (Davlik http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalvik_(software)), which is published under an open source license. From what I understand, they're just porting the vm.

Erinyes

04-Mar-2011, 05:50

They won't have access to the Android Market, but you don't need permission from Google to run third party Android apps. Android itself is released under the Apache Software License, thus anyone can use it.

So since they cant access the Android market, basically they have to host the apk's on their own Blackberry App World or through some other way. It would be a nice feature to have in the playbook, and would mean it has access to 100,000+ apps at launch

Brad Grenz

05-Mar-2011, 12:30

Android apps run in a virtual machine (Davlik http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalvik_(software)), which is published under an open source license. From what I understand, they're just porting the vm.

Interesting. I did no realize that was the case. Do we think Sony is doing the same thing for NGP to accomplish cross-platform support for Playstation Suite titles?

Scott_Arm

05-Mar-2011, 20:07

Interesting. I did no realize that was the case. Do we think Sony is doing the same thing for NGP to accomplish cross-platform support for Playstation Suite titles?

Good question. I don't think there'd be any other way to have the apps run on both platforms. Could be wrong though.

AlphaWolf

10-Mar-2011, 02:07

Blu_d8jVYDg

some stuff about the music store for playbook

Scott_Arm

10-Mar-2011, 03:35

Nice. Looks slick.

AlphaWolf

10-Mar-2011, 03:40

Nice. Looks slick.

It brings up a question for me. I wonder how it sounds? I know quite a few phones sound pretty weak compared to an ipod, so I hope that wasn't something they overlooked.

Scott_Arm

10-Mar-2011, 05:00

It brings up a question for me. I wonder how it sounds? I know quite a few phones sound pretty weak compared to an ipod, so I hope that wasn't something they overlooked.

Hmmm, never thought about it. I should try out music on my blackberry.

eastmen

10-Mar-2011, 09:12

This seems like a really good pad , i just think that 7 inches is a bit to small imo . I've been playing on a rooted nook color alot and i could def do with a bigger size

Scott_Arm

10-Mar-2011, 16:14

This seems like a really good pad , i just think that 7 inches is a bit to small imo . I've been playing on a rooted nook color alot and i could def do with a bigger size

Yeah. I hope they come out with a larger one, but I'm personally interested in the smaller size. It should be good enough for easy reading of web pages, and very light, which is what I want. If I was going to watch a lot of movies on it, then a larger screen would be better. But it has HDMI out, so it it's still useful to hook up to a tv.

AlphaWolf

13-Mar-2011, 06:44

A video showing quite a few applications in use on the playbook.

n5IBE1usaqk

Scott_Arm

13-Mar-2011, 13:46

What did Elmo's note say?!

AlphaWolf

13-Mar-2011, 23:40

What did Elmo's note say?!

I don't know but I think it's from Mr. Music!

argor

13-Mar-2011, 23:56

Android apps run in a virtual machine (Davlik http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalvik_(software)), which is published under an open source license. From what I understand, they're just porting the vm.
most of aps worth a dam use the native interface still there are a few good ones aps that use Dalvík by the way you misspelled Dalvik :razz:

Scott_Arm

14-Mar-2011, 00:56

most of aps worth a dam use the native interface still there are a few good ones aps that use Dalvík by the way you misspelled Dalvik :razz:

What was the intention of Dalvik? Did they expect it to go cross platform?

argor

14-Mar-2011, 01:36

What was the intention of Dalvik? Did they expect it to go cross platform?
i "think" the main reason for Dalvik was to have aps run a Managed environment to make the platform more secure
and if they gained cross platform support that just a plus for them
the problem was Dalvik performances was nowhere near asepelo
that was one of the main reasons Google added
native interface
well it not impossible for Rim for to add support for aps that use the native interface
as they both run on arm linux and QNX but i am not sure on the low level differences between linux and QNX on what rim would need to emulate

Scott_Arm

14-Mar-2011, 02:15

i "think" the main reason for Dalvik was to have aps run a Managed environment to make the platform more secure
and if they gained cross platform support that just a plus for them
the problem was Dalvik performances was nowhere near asepelo
that was one of the main reasons Google added
native interface
well it not impossible for Rim for to add support for aps that use the native interface
as they both run on arm linux and QNX but i am not sure on the low level differences between linux and QNX on what rim would need to emulate

QNX is quite a bit different than Linux, from what I remember of school.

AlphaWolf

22-Mar-2011, 09:18

Mize

22-Mar-2011, 09:45

QNX is quite a bit different than Linux, from what I remember of school.

Uh...quite. QNX was designed from the ground up to be a realtime OS, no? Linux (un*x) is not.

Tempted to preorder but still think it's too small...

Mize

22-Mar-2011, 09:47

Is there an Apps list for the playbook?
I fear it will be yet another "no standalone IMAP client" device...

Pressure

22-Mar-2011, 12:38

Is there an Apps list for the playbook?
I fear it will be yet another "no standalone IMAP client" device...

Indeed, Blackberry Playbook email client piggybacks on the BlackBerry Enterprise Server as far as I am aware.

Valzic

22-Mar-2011, 12:39

No published apps list.

However, they have had developers working on apps for 6 months with teh incentive of a free Playbook. In addition, QNX is POSIX compliant and there is rumours that Android apps may run under QNX.

We will know when its released.

Mize

22-Mar-2011, 13:20

Indeed, Blackberry Playbook email client piggybacks on the BlackBerry Enterprise Server as far as I am aware.

Ugh.

I'm a stickler for standalone IMAP clients. I use ProfiMail on Symbian right now and it's excellent. How anyone can do without real IMAP is beyond me. That and the storing and relaying of email by your phone company...Palm bought Chattermail way back when which was an excellent PalmOS IMAP client. I can only hope Webmail used the base code and has a similarly good IMAP client. AFAIK, K9 is still the best for Android and it leaves much to be desired.

Scott_Arm

22-Mar-2011, 13:43

I'm sure someone will make an IMAP client for playbook, but there isn't one included with the device.

Yeah, QNX is a true real-time OS with a microkernel architecture, but I can't really remember how it all fit together. I know there were some differences in the way threads/multiprocessing worked.

Scott_Arm

22-Mar-2011, 13:45

Bestbuy (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/null/null/pcmcat236100050008.c?id=pcmcat236100050008&DCMP=rdr4325) and some others are now taking preorders.

$499, $599 and $699 for 16, 32 and 64GB models, ship date is apparently April 19.

I was hoping the prices would come in lower than that. I guess I'll have to see how big my bonus is this year, and then figure out if I want to get one.

Mize

22-Mar-2011, 13:49

Florin

22-Mar-2011, 16:12

Ugh.

I'm a stickler for standalone IMAP clients. I use ProfiMail on Symbian right now and it's excellent. How anyone can do without real IMAP is beyond me. That and the storing and relaying of email by your phone company...Palm bought Chattermail way back when which was an excellent PalmOS IMAP client. I can only hope Webmail used the base code and has a similarly good IMAP client. AFAIK, K9 is still the best for Android and it leaves much to be desired.

Have you ever used a Blackberry with BES? Push is instant and it just works really well. Plus it syncs pretty much everything Exchange does, not just mail folders and a calendar.

I switched jobs and now use an iPhone with IMAP and seriously it is in no way superior to Blackberry.

wco81

22-Mar-2011, 16:13

iPad may have kept the prices lower than they otherwise would have been.

But then again, you may have to count the price of a BB and service into those totals.

It's as if they're not interested in selling to non-BB customers. Or they're so intent on making people buy BBs.

Mize

22-Mar-2011, 18:21

Have you ever used a Blackberry with BES? Push is instant and it just works really well. Plus it syncs pretty much everything Exchange does, not just mail folders and a calendar.

I switched jobs and now use an iPhone with IMAP and seriously it is in no way superior to Blackberry.

I have five email accounts four of which do not have BES as an option. I wouldn't mind BES for my main work account, but there is no IMAP option for my other four accounts on Blackberry. I have to use a relay to the BES which basically turns them into POP3 accounts and forces me to hand my passwords to a middleman server.

BES, Exchange and any other proprietary email system just aren't my thing. The worst thing about BES is the centralized push system (most companies don't have their own BES servers and leverage a phone company community server). Why would I want so many hands touching my work emails with confidential information? If I SSL to my own mail server using IMAP there is no man-in-the-middle issue and IMAP IDLE pushes as well as BES.

Scott_Arm

22-Mar-2011, 20:12

AlphaWolf

22-Mar-2011, 22:06

Looks like those prices are CAD ... http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/category/id/PCblackberryplaybook.aspx

That makes it a little more enticing for me again, knowing I don't have to pay some huge markup from the US price.

They really should have tried to be a bit lower on the pricing, because iPad 2 already has huge mindshare, so you need some other advantage to compete with that. The average person doesn't care about true multi-tasking or anything like that.

Considering the Canadian dollar has been above par all year, I would hope we'd get price parity from RIM at least. :)

I haven't seen Canadian pricing on the ipad 2 yet, but I expect they will still want a premium here.

Scott_Arm

23-Mar-2011, 00:51

Considering the Canadian dollar has been above par all year, I would hope we'd get price parity from RIM at least. :)

I haven't seen Canadian pricing on the ipad 2 yet, but I expect they will still want a premium here.

16GB iPad2 is $520, I think, so only a $20 difference for the cheapest models.

AlphaWolf

24-Mar-2011, 23:54

Android Apps are official for the Playbook. (http://press.rim.com/release.jsp?id=4935)

Developers will simply repackage, code sign and submit their BlackBerry Java and Android apps to BlackBerry App World. Once approved, the apps will be distributed through BlackBerry App World, providing a new opportunity for many developers to reach BlackBerry PlayBook users. Users will be able to download both the app players and the BlackBerry Java and Android apps from BlackBerry App World.

Scott_Arm

25-Mar-2011, 00:03

Awesome. It's weird. It says Android 2.3 apps. How do they make the distinction between the Dalvik apps and the other ones? Or are they supporting both?

AlphaWolf

25-Mar-2011, 00:19

Awesome. It's weird. It says Android 2.3 apps. How do they make the distinction between the Dalvik apps and the other ones? Or are they supporting both?

heh I was just going to go back and read the press release and its gone. Wonder if someone jumped the gun.

Crackberry has it here tho (http://crackberry.com/press-release-rim-expands-application-ecosystem-blackberry-playbook-android-apps-playbook)

wco81

25-Mar-2011, 07:47

Isn't that an admission of failure to attract native development?

The UI of Android on Playbook can't look like native apps. can it?

Valzic

25-Mar-2011, 13:14

Well the product is just being released.
I thought I reead that they have 25,000 native apps and this ability just adds quickly the number of apps available even if a lot of them are mediocre.

I pretty sure iPad and Android did not have 100,000 plus apps when they first started selling.

I am pretty sure any android decent apps that start to sell will probably encourage developers to move that app to native. If they don't then someone will thank them for showing there is a market for that app and develop it natively for them showing it running better.

Pretty smart move on RIM's part.

wco81

25-Mar-2011, 19:17

Apparently the Android apps. would run in a VM?

If they ran well enough, maybe developers choose just to repackage Android apps. instead of developing native apps?

AlphaWolf

25-Mar-2011, 19:26

Apparently the Android apps. would run in a VM?

If they ran well enough, maybe developers choose just to repackage Android apps. instead of developing native apps?

Which is probably fine for 99% of the apps, RIM is going to get paid either way.

idsn6

25-Mar-2011, 19:38

I don't see a lot of difference from iPads running iPhone apps in a similarly suboptimal compatibility mode; they're both stopgaps to ensure a healthy selection at launch. Granted, the migration path is a lot steeper porting from Android to Playbook as opposed to iPhone to iPad, but it's a little soon to guess at the impact on native development.

wco81

25-Mar-2011, 20:19

If Android apps. are running in a VM, would they have access to hardware like GPS or the cameras?

Scott_Arm

25-Mar-2011, 20:33

If Android apps. are running in a VM, would they have access to hardware like GPS or the cameras?

I don't see why not. The apps run in a VM on the Android platform.

I guess the idea is having all these apps available on playbook will help spur sales, and if there are high sales then there is more incentive for people to make native apps. There are a lot of options on the playbook: Adobe Air, Web SDK, Native C/C++ SDK, Blackberry OS phone apps, Android. No matter what, the apps have to be packaged, signed and sold through Blackberry App World, so they would get a cut of any sales for non-free apps. You won't be able to get apps on the Playbook directly through the Android app store, whatever it's called.

I think it is an admission that they know their app store is behind, but I think it's a good way to address that issue. In reality, a lot of apps are multi-platform for the phone world, so this makes it very easy for the Playbook to get in on that action with tablets.

metafor

25-Mar-2011, 20:59

I don't see why not. The apps run in a VM on the Android platform.

Well, when accessing device specific hardware like cameras and GPS, I'd imagine they'd have to use Android specific API's that'd have to be translated to whatever the Playbook is running. I'm not too familiar with Android's programming model so I can't comment, does one simply make calls to a generic GPS API in Android?

Xmas

26-Mar-2011, 01:26

Well, when accessing device specific hardware like cameras and GPS, I'd imagine they'd have to use Android specific API's that'd have to be translated to whatever the Playbook is running. I'm not too familiar with Android's programming model so I can't comment, does one simply make calls to a generic GPS API in Android?
Yes. (http://developer.android.com/reference/android/location/package-summary.html)

Joe DeFuria

26-Mar-2011, 19:42

Joe DeFuria

26-Mar-2011, 19:48

In reality, a lot of apps are multi-platform for the phone world, so this makes it very easy for the Playbook to get in on that action with tablets.

It also gives the "Blackberry-Android App World" a chance to mature prior to Rim releasing QNX based smartphones (late 2012?) which presumably would also have access to Android 2.x apps.

AlphaWolf

26-Mar-2011, 19:54

This has almost solidified my decision to purchase a playbook. My main concern was the availability of apps....but if the "app player" does a decent job of running Adroid apps, that lessens my concern. (Will still need to rely on devs repackaging their apps of course.)

My other main concern is with tethering for non wi-fi internet access. I am a currently a blackberry user, so the WiFi only playbook paired with my phone is of course fine for the time being.

However, if I move to a different phone platform next year...I'm not sure what options I would have for cellular internet access. Can I pair with any bluetooth phone to get internet access? (Provided my phone / plan support tethering?)

Of course, I could limit my phone choices to those that includes WiFi hot-spot capability...

http://www.pcworld.com/article/223274/playbook_will_need_blackberry_tethering_to_start.h tml

BlackBerry PlayBook users won't initially be able to get their BlackBerry e-mail directly on the tablet, but will have to tether a BlackBerry phone wirelessly to it, a Research In Motion executive said this week.

Users will be able to get mail on the PlayBook directly from a BES (BlackBerry Enterprise Server) only after a software update coming later this year, said Jeff McDowell, senior vice president of enterprise and platform marketing, at a panel discussion Wednesday at the CTIA Wireless trade show in Orlando.

So it looks like blackberry tethering only for now, but later this year you won't need to tether at all.

Joe DeFuria

26-Mar-2011, 20:10

Well, my concern isn't so much native e-mail client support...it's accessing the internet when there's no wifi available.

I don't want to buy another device with a carrier contract in order to get cellular access to the internet on the playbook when WiFi is not available. I have a cellular contract with my phone (which happens to currently be a blackberry) that includes unlimited data and tethering.

if I'm out and about with no WiFi service, I will currently be able to pair the playbook to my blackberry to get internet access on the Playbook.

Without a blackberry? Would I need a phone that creates a wifi hotspot...or could I essentially use any phone with bluetooth and thethering support and tether it to the playbook?

AlphaWolf

26-Mar-2011, 20:27

They certainly haven't mentioned supporting tethering with other devices. I imagine it would be doable, but you're probably going to have to wait for some 3rd party to make it happen.

Joe DeFuria

26-Mar-2011, 20:36

On a related note...do WiFi only Android or iPad devices allow this? (Are there android or iPad apps that allow internet access through a bluetooth paired cellular device?)

Entropy

27-Mar-2011, 03:02

On a related note...do WiFi only Android or iPad devices allow this? (Are there android or iPad apps that allow internet access through a bluetooth paired cellular device?)

The iPad does.
I just tried connecting via my phone. Works beautifully.

Joe DeFuria

27-Mar-2011, 15:37

To what phone? (iPhone only?) What app is used or is it a native feature of the OS?

Arun

27-Mar-2011, 16:14

I think WiFi hotspot is going to become such a standard feature that this is a rather minor problem. Operators might try to charge more for it, then again they've tried to do the same for tethering, sometimes with limited success.

wco81

27-Mar-2011, 17:28

AT&T sent notices out to people they suspect of tethering without signing onto a tethering plan.

They said they will automatically enroll them.

This is presumably figuring out people who've jailbroken iPhones and has certain signature data usage patterns.

Mize

27-Mar-2011, 17:37

To what phone? (iPhone only?) What app is used or is it a native feature of the OS?

I don't think iPad-to-phone bt tethering is possible on a non-jailbroken iPad. I just gave it shot using my nokia e72 and the ipad2 would only connect as an audio device.

Entropy, is your iPad jailbroken?

On the flip side my e72 makes a nice wifi hotspot that is faster than bt.

Joe DeFuria

27-Mar-2011, 19:06

For the record, I do pay verizon for an unlimited data plan including tethering, so I'm not worried about anyone cracking down on me. ;)

I'm pretty much thinking that one of the requirements of my next phone (probably about a year off) will be that it supports creating a WiFi hot-spot...then problem solved no matter which tablet I go with.

I don't want to get involved with jail breaking iPads or rooting Android devices.

So for the next year, the fact that the playbook tethers to my blackberry actually works as a plus for me. That, and I think the 7" form factor is what I want. (A little more portability). I haven't really sat down for any length of time with either size to really draw a conclusion though.

Mize

27-Mar-2011, 20:24

BBerries can't create hot spots? With Symbian it's an add-on app called joikuspot. Maybe there's an add-on app for BBerry?

silent_guy

27-Mar-2011, 20:58

Scott_Arm

27-Mar-2011, 21:21

Ouch, I missed that last part and thought you would be able to run it right out of the box. I wonder how many developers are going to go through the trouble of repackaging their apps. Do anyone know if some code changes are required?

repackaging the app should be dead simple, and shouldn't require any source code changes.

Entropy

27-Mar-2011, 23:09

I don't think iPad-to-phone bt tethering is possible on a non-jailbroken iPad. I just gave it shot using my nokia e72 and the ipad2 would only connect as an audio device.

Entropy, is your iPad jailbroken?

On the flip side my e72 makes a nice wifi hotspot that is faster than bt.
My iPhone is not jailbroken. I just go into settings, select internet sharing, it suggests a Wi-Fi password (settable), and allows me to connect via WiFi, Bluetooth or USB. It is literally as easy as flicking a switch. The iPad automatically picks up on the shared network, I log in from the iPad, and it works systemwide.
Flick a switch (phone), log in (Pad), done.

Since I've had no reason to explore this until Joe asked, I can't tell if the sharing is a recent OS addition, or if it has always been there, and the draconic US carriers have forced Apple to turn it off over there. My wife has done this for some time to her laptop though.

Mize

27-Mar-2011, 23:34

So if you turn off wifi you have Internet access iPad->bt->phone->Internet?
Interesting. I found lots of threads about how an app called MiFi solved the problem that you could not bt tether...hmm... In any event, seems one must have an iPhone. My laptop can bt tether off my e72, but not my ipad2.

Joe DeFuria

28-Mar-2011, 00:59

BBerries can't create hot spots?

Not currently. (There is no app I'm aware of). However, I believe this feature is supposed to be integrated into to the next point release (6.1) of the BBerry OS. That being said, only a couple (very recent) BB models support 6.x along with whatever 2011 models they put out.

silent_guy

28-Mar-2011, 03:40

repackaging the app should be dead simple, and shouldn't require any source code changes.
Ok.

I was just hoping that it would run everything straight out of the box. Any hurdle (effort, financial, administrative) added in the process will reduce app availability.

Scott_Arm

28-Mar-2011, 17:57

Ok.

I was just hoping that it would run everything straight out of the box. Any hurdle (effort, financial, administrative) added in the process will reduce app availability.

I highly doubt that repackaging apps will have any effect on app availability. What's more likely to be a barrier is the terms and price of the account to submit apps onto the store. There's no way RIM would allowed paid apps on their device that weren't going through their own App store.

silent_guy

28-Mar-2011, 22:18

I highly doubt that repackaging apps will have any effect on app availability.
I was thinking in terms of difficulty to get anything at all going on the Playbook for developers. (See widely circulated posting about this.) RIM is claiming they will fix this in the future (they have already dropped notary requirements), but they need to fix a lot.

Also: a developer will probably need a physical device? Another hurdle.

What's more likely to be a barrier is the terms and price of the account to submit apps onto the store. There's no way RIM would allowed paid apps on their device that weren't going through their own App store.
Yes, good point.

AlphaWolf

31-Mar-2011, 17:12

So apparently you won't need a blackberry smartphone to tether the playbook.

http://crackberry.com/internet-tethering-blackberry-playbook-tablet-bluetooth

How to tether your BlackBerry PlayBook to a mobile device that has a tethering plan (does not have to be a BlackBerrry Smartphone!)

Scott_Arm

02-Apr-2011, 00:17

So apparently you won't need a blackberry smartphone to tether the playbook.

http://crackberry.com/internet-tethering-blackberry-playbook-tablet-bluetooth

Great news. Pretty much ideal, really. I think buying data plans for tablets is a pretty retarded idea. I'd much rather have a phone with a data plan and tether for when I'm out of wifi. Why pay for two data plans?

Hopefully there will be a number of good options for native email, calendar etc for those that want it. It is a bit of the miss, but I don't think its as big a deal as people are making it out to be. The majority of people use webmail, and with multitasking and a full capable web browser, that should be an issue. Plus, I'm sure Google Apps will be one of the first things to hit the Playbook.

Since I'm a Blackberry user, I'm looking forward to seeing the interface for the Blackberry Bridge.

Joe DeFuria

02-Apr-2011, 17:32

On the other hand, a bit of let down for me...I just learned (http://crackberry.com/crackberry-podcast-066-android-apps-blackberry-blackberry-7-2011-phones-playbook-and-more) (at about 50:45) that apparently for phones on CDMA networks (Verizon) you won't be able to tether for internet and also bridge to the blackberry phone at the same time. This is not a limitation of GSM.

Since I'm on verizon (CDMA) if I'm not in WiFi range, I won't be able to surf the net and also utilize BB e-mail, etc. At least until the Playbook native clients are released of course.

Scott_Arm

04-Apr-2011, 20:02

Joe DeFuria

05-Apr-2011, 01:49

That is very weird. I'd be curious to know why it wouldn't work with cdma. Ill check that link out later.

I can at least verify that when I use my CDMA blackberry as a tethered device to my PC, the blackberry no longer receives e-mails / BBMs until the tether is severed.

While the blackberry is being used in "Modem" mode (tethered), I can access emails on the device...but only those that have already been received by the device prior to starting the tethered connection. I cannot send new emails or BBMs either. I can compose emails and BBMs, but they do not get delivered until the tether is severed.

It is odd...we're all aware of the simultaneous voice / data limitations of CDMA, but never really thought of this...

Mize

05-Apr-2011, 02:18

CDMA has a single data stream. This is why it cannot do voice and data simultaneously as GSM can.

Scott_Arm

05-Apr-2011, 14:02

CDMA has a single data stream. This is why it cannot do voice and data simultaneously as GSM can.

Interesting. I had no idea. I've never owned a CDMA phone.

metafor

05-Apr-2011, 15:33

CDMA has a single data stream. This is why it cannot do voice and data simultaneously as GSM can.

The thing is, why is BB email using the voice service? You'd think that would be a data service.

Lazy8s

05-Apr-2011, 19:10

The notifications are pushed as SMS?

Joe DeFuria

05-Apr-2011, 19:51

The thing is, why is BB email using the voice service? You'd think that would be a data service.

I don't beleive (and Mize seems to confrim) there are separate "voice" and "data" services. They are both just "data" services/streams... It's just that with CDMA you can only have one "data service" operational at a time.

I'm guessing that due to the nature of BB security (or perhaps its middleware structure)...it requires it's own data stream that is distinct from the generic internet data service.

I'm also guessing that during normal phone operation, the BBerry can seamlessly switch between the two services as needed...but in "modem" mode, it is dedicated to the internet data service only.

In any case, this will be somewhat of an annoyance when not in WiFi range...until the native BBerry apps are supported on the Playbook...

metafor

05-Apr-2011, 20:04

I don't beleive (and Mize seems to confrim) there are separate "voice" and "data" services. They are both just "data" services/streams... It's just that with CDMA you can only have one "data service" operational at a time.

I'm guessing that due to the nature of BB security (or perhaps its middleware structure)...it requires it's own data stream that is distinct from the generic internet data service.

I'm also guessing that during normal phone operation, the BBerry can seamlessly switch between the two services as needed...but in "modem" mode, it is dedicated to the internet data service only.

In any case, this will be somewhat of an annoyance when not in WiFi range...until the native BBerry apps are supported on the Playbook...

Well, "voice" as in it goes over the EDGE/GSM connection instead of the UTMS/3G connection on a GSM carrier. Why would it not just multiplex the 3G connection?

AlphaWolf

14-Apr-2011, 03:16

reviews are out.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4266/blackberry-playbook-review

Impressive UI and decent performance, but seems like it will need a bit of time to fulfill the promise.

wco81

14-Apr-2011, 04:02

reviews are out.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4266/blackberry-playbook-review

Impressive UI and decent performance, but seems like it will need a bit of time to fulfill the promise.

Hmm, trails on almost every benchmark not just to the iPad but the Xoom and is at the bottom for battery life, though not as bad as rumored.

What exactly distinguishes it, unless one's invested in the Blackberry platform?

There are concerns about the performance of the Gingerbread apps. in a VM.

AlphaWolf

14-Apr-2011, 04:33

Hmm, trails on almost every benchmark not just to the iPad but the Xoom and is at the bottom for battery life, though not as bad as rumored.

What exactly distinguishes it, unless one's invested in the Blackberry platform?

There are concerns about the performance of the Gingerbread apps. in a VM.

1080p video output, better multitasking, bezel gestures, better cameras <edit> and functional flash out of the box

And there might be an issue with Anand's performance (engadget got a 2360 with playbook) tests he's running an older version of sunspider, he says he's going to retest.

Mize

14-Apr-2011, 11:34

It seems to be very lacking IMHO. No email client, no calendar, no contacts, no really office apps. Of course those are all "yet" meaning it has potential. Does it have Skype with video?

It's a work in progress at this point for anyone looking for a tool.

Next up: HP TouchPad. The SDK leaked with an emulator that looks very good.

Scott_Arm

14-Apr-2011, 13:59

http://www.wired.com/reviews/2011/04/blackberry-playbook/

Wired. Pretty glowing review of the hardware and OS, but the stumbling blocks are a lack of native email, calendar, lack of apps and buggy beta performance of flash in the web browser.

To be honest, I really don't understand who uses native email clients anymore. I haven't used one for personal email since ten years ago. Personal choice, I know, but the native software is coming this summer, which is only a few months away. I'm sure third parties will jump on this as well.

Lack of apps is a problem, I guess, but the number of apps will grow as its released and people get their hands on it. Definitely is a downside compared to the more mature platforms.

Buggy flash in the browser is a problem. I'd rather have a website revert to a non-flash version, or have it tell me it won't load than have it crash. My guess is that the performance will be improved over time, but can they get it rock solid? The reviewer mentioned it improved even during the review period, so here's hoping. It looks like Ars completely disagrees on this one, and says the Flash experience is very very good, so I'm guessing they may have been testing a new version, or perhaps just different Flash content. You can turn flash off, altogether, which is nice, I guess.

Blackberry bridge is a nice feature that was untested. Obviously this is only beneficial to their current phone users.

Mize

14-Apr-2011, 15:30

http://www.wired.com/reviews/2011/04/blackberry-playbook/

To be honest, I really don't understand who uses native email clients anymore. I haven't used one for personal email since ten years ago. Personal choice, I know, but the native software is coming this summer, which is only a few months away. I'm sure third parties will jump on this as well.

LOL. People who manage email from multiple machines that are sometimes or often offline?
Get email as you rush between flights...answer emails while on flight...send when you land.

Also, many companies have security policies to prohibit storage or email on off-site servers or to send receive without encryption.

Scott_Arm

14-Apr-2011, 15:49

LOL. People who manage email from multiple machines that are sometimes or often offline?
Get email as you rush between flights...answer emails while on flight...send when you land.

Also, many companies have security policies to prohibit storage or email on off-site servers or to send receive without encryption.

Yeah, there are obviously going to be people, especially work email addresses, that would want a native client. In reality 90% or more of my email contacts, for my personal mail, are either with gmail or hotmail (vast majority are gmail). I'm not saying the lack of a native client for mail and calendar isn't an omission, I'm just wondering how big of a deal it really is for the first few months of release. Native clients are coming this summer, and we're already in April. They already have Blackberry users covered with their bridge mode, who are most likely going to be the majority of the initial users.

Scott_Arm

14-Apr-2011, 16:43

Unfavourable reviews from Wallstreet Journal and the New York Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/14/technology/personaltech/14pogue.html
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703730104576260953631631640.html

The main complaint is the lack of apps, both third party and native. The app store will launch with a very limited selection. Support of BlackberryOS apps, Android apps is coming later, which limits selection on release. Lack of native email, calendar, contacts is really getting panned heavily.

At least the OS and the hardware are getting good reviews. The bright spots appear to be the HDMI output, which doesn't clone the devices screen, flash and multitasking. Apps can be written to display different content on the video out and Playbook screens. The example given is a presentation on the video out, and speakers crib sheet on the Playbook screen. With the exception of the Wired review, Flash is generally being written up as a positive with good implementation. Multitasking is being reviewed favourably.

If they can't get content in App World to ramp up quickly, it seems like people are not going to be willing to take the plunge. Right now that appears to be Apple's big stranglehold on the tablet market is apps, and it will be very hard for any competitor to launch a new tablet, because there is no way you can have tens of thousands of new apps ready and waiting to be bought before the hardware is even released. RIM really screwed up by not having their phone apps running on the Playbook day one, but to be honest the phone apps will not lend themselves to a tablet as well as the iPhone apps did on the iPad. Blackberry apps are definitely more primitive, for the most part, because they were designed for much more limited hardware with touch pad support, rather than a full touchscreen interface.

Mize

14-Apr-2011, 18:06

Yeah, there are obviously going to be people, especially work email addresses, that would want a native client. In reality 90% or more of my email contacts, for my personal mail, are either with gmail or hotmail (vast majority are gmail). I'm not saying the lack of a native client for mail and calendar isn't an omission, I'm just wondering how big of a deal it really is for the first few months of release. Native clients are coming this summer, and we're already in April. They already have Blackberry users covered with their bridge mode, who are most likely going to be the majority of the initial users.

There's also the overhead of http-based emails. If you're tethered to a mobile phone in an edge-only area loading up web sites is insanely slow, whereas downloading email headers then selecting which bodies to download inside a native client is far more efficient.

Now once we have 4G or whatever everywhere things will be different, but we won't be able to afford surfing! :)

Scott_Arm

14-Apr-2011, 18:22

There's also the overhead of http-based emails. If you're tethered to a mobile phone in an edge-only area loading up web sites is insanely slow, whereas downloading email headers then selecting which bodies to download inside a native client is far more efficient.

Now once we have 4G or whatever everywhere things will be different, but we won't be able to afford surfing! :)

Most webmail services have mobile versions of their sites to deal just with that issue, no? It is true that there is a bit less traffic used if you're using a native mail client. Anyway, I can see that lacking those applications on day 1 is going to be a problem for some people. For myself, it is not an issue. I really hope that the Playbook doesn't flop. It will be very hard for anyone to put market pressure on Apple.

Scott_Arm

14-Apr-2011, 18:27

Crackberry's very extensive review:

http://crackberry.com/blackberry-playbook-review-official

I haven't read it yet. I imagine this one will be more biased towards RIM, but it looks to be fairly in-depth so I imagine it will be quite a useful review.

Edit:

Documents To Go Premium versions are included free on the playbook for those that are into the office productivity stuff.

AlphaWolf

14-Apr-2011, 19:01

Scott_Arm

14-Apr-2011, 19:07

The crackberry review doesn't seem biased, he hits on the same points as the others. Basically saying if you're not a blackberry user, wait.

Yeah, I just about finished it. Seems like a pretty good review. His main concerns all seem fair. You have bezel gestures and screen gestures, all of which seems maybe too complicated for ease of use. The screen resolution/size/aspect ratio does not lend itself well to some things, where he prefers the iPad. Lack of native applications for mail, calendar, messaging, contacts. Lastly, it seems the OS is using up a lot of memory, or has a memory leak, which is probably the worst of the flaws in my mind. Hopefully it's just a leak and they can fix it. If the OS has a big footprint, it makes that 1GB of RAM a lot less useful. I really like the wireless syncing while the device is in standby. That's very cool.

So far, I don't know what to think. I'm guessing RIM wants it out there so people will start making apps, but is it worth the negative press releasing without the native apps that people want? That is pretty much the #1 complaint that could have been a non-issue at launch. The App World is only going to grow after the device is on the market. I guess they didn't want iPad 2 to be out for too long before they hit the market.

AlphaWolf

14-Apr-2011, 19:13

They want to get the government/corporate install going asap before ipads get embedded. I know for a fact that CSC (Correctional Services Canada) is buying thousands of them.

Scott_Arm

14-Apr-2011, 19:22

They want to get the government/corporate install going asap before ipads get embedded. I know for a fact that CSC (Correctional Services Canada) is buying thousands of them.

iPads or Playbooks?

Mize

14-Apr-2011, 19:23

Documents To Go Premium versions are included free on the playbook for those that are into the office productivity stuff.

Now that is very nice!
Anyone know how well the DTG version of Powerpoint works? With 1080p output...

Scott_Arm

14-Apr-2011, 19:26

Now that is very nice!
Anyone know how well the DTG version of Powerpoint works? With 1080p output...

Sounds like you can use it with the presentation mode, so you can have your powerpoint up on the projector and have different notes displaying on your Playbook screen. Sounds pretty cool, but I've never used DTG to know how good it is. I'm also wondering if the Playbook actually comes with the premium versions, or if that was just on the demo unit Crackberry received. I'd like to see that clarified. It would be a nice addition.

One of the reviews noted the screen is considerably brighter than the iPad 2, so that it is readable outdoors in direct sunlight. I'm curious how much you can extend the battery life by reducing the brightness to something like 50%.

Oh, and I think one review said the Playbook does not have a GPS, which is incorrect. It does have a GPS, which is only really useful if you have a phone (any phone, not just blackberry) to tether for a data connection.

Bluetooth keyboards and mice are supported. You can do gesturing somehow, which is explained in the Crackberry review. Might make it interesting with 1080p output and a cradle. I'm assuming the home screen is just scaled to 1080p, but I wonder if the web browser or other apps in fullscreen will take advantage of the extra resolution.

AlphaWolf

14-Apr-2011, 19:31

iPads or Playbooks?

Mostly playbooks. Wardens and execs are getting ipads, but anyone who needs to do real work (such as parole officers) over the secure network gets a playbook.

Scott_Arm

14-Apr-2011, 19:33

Mostly playbooks. Wardens and execs are getting ipads, but anyone who needs to do real work (such as parole officers) over the secure network gets a playbook.

While the Wardens and Execs avoid real work and play Angry Birds or Infinity Blade.

AlphaWolf

14-Apr-2011, 19:35

While the Wardens and Execs avoid real work and play Angry Birds or Infinity Blade.

well straight from my IT source at CSC... yes.

Mize

14-Apr-2011, 19:37

Mostly playbooks. Wardens and execs are getting ipads, but anyone who needs to do real work (such as parole officers) over the secure network gets a playbook.

LOL.

What VPN software and ssh app does it come with since it's for "real work"? :)
(as if parole officers can figure out VPNs or ssh) ;)

Biggest problem with iPad 2 is that it doesn't support OpenVPN. It does support L2TP, PPTP, or Cisco IPSec VPN though.

AlphaWolf

14-Apr-2011, 19:43

LOL.

What VPN software and ssh app does it come with since it's for "real work"? :)
(as if parole officers can figure out VPNs or ssh) ;)

Biggest problem with iPad 2 is that it doesn't support OpenVPN. It does support L2TP, PPTP, or Cisco IPSec VPN though.
Blackberries are standard equipment at CSC and the tether is a secure connection. CSC uses their own network, it is not 'online'.

Scott_Arm

14-Apr-2011, 19:54

Blackberries are standard equipment at CSC and the tether is a secure connection. CSC uses their own network, it is not 'online'.

Yep, the Blackberry Bridging should make this very very easy for rollout. I think the BES has to set 1 flag to enable bridging and that's it. You get all your mail etc securely managed through the Blackberry and its BES policies, and all data is wiped from the Playbook when the tether is broken. You can have people share Playbooks very easily.

Scott_Arm

14-Apr-2011, 19:56

LOL.

What VPN software and ssh app does it come with since it's for "real work"? :)
(as if parole officers can figure out VPNs or ssh) ;)

Biggest problem with iPad 2 is that it doesn't support OpenVPN. It does support L2TP, PPTP, or Cisco IPSec VPN though.

Good question. I wonder if it has any built-in VPN support, for those that are not Blackberry users that would most likely use the advanced tethering features.

Scott_Arm

14-Apr-2011, 20:03

IKT_tcqLmnY

Interesting

xehcg22chpk

Joe DeFuria

14-Apr-2011, 20:17

Yep, the Blackberry Bridging should make this very very easy for rollout. I think the BES has to set 1 flag to enable bridging and that's it.

Actually, I read that by default bridging is enabled. You can set the flag on BES to disable bridging.

That being said, you will need to download and install the bridging app on the blackberry phone too...so if app installations are completely locked down by the corporate admin that would also technically prevent bridging.

I'm still leaning toward getting one of these as my first tablet...though if I did not already have a blackberry phone probably I wouldn't. I can also see that one screen size isn't likely to be completely satisfactory for all uses. I can see ultimately ending up with both an iPad and a Playbook and use both for different use cases (with overlap of course.)

Mize

14-Apr-2011, 21:15

Can someone explain BB bridging? Is this a BB proprietary VPN or something?
Let's say I'm in China but need a schematic from my server in the US or Germany. Today I connect by VPN, browse to the share and copy it. Do I have to have a custom firewall to do this with a Playbook or does the phone do Ipsec or OpenVPN for it?

Scott_Arm

14-Apr-2011, 21:43

The blackberry bridging basically allows you to access all of your blackberry services (mail, messaging, calendar, contacts, data service tethering) on the Playbook through an encrypted Bluetooth connection. Basically it simplifies IT administration, because all of those functions securely access the Blackberry Enterprise Server through the phone, and it does not require IT to roll out new policies for the tablets. On the BES end, they don't have to handle as many devices. The way it works is once the Bluetooth connection is terminated, either intentionally or unintentionally, the data is instantly wiped from the Playbook. It seems the Playbook keeps the data in a fixed segment of RAM and never stores it. Makes it easy for an office to have a number of Playbooks that people can share as they need them, so they won't have to wipe the devices or worry about people snooping each others mail

The Playbook also supports data tethering to any mobile phone that supports it. If you want to access network shares from work, you would need some kind of VPN to do that. Not sure what the Playbook supports, if anything at all, in that regard. Haven't seen it discussed anywhere.

AlphaWolf

15-Apr-2011, 01:54

http://www.pepper.pk/early-bird/

First email client app for playbook now available.

Mize

15-Apr-2011, 02:09

http://www.pepper.pk/early-bird/

First email client app for playbook now available.

meh...no IMAP or mention of SSL, but at least they were fast to get it out...now for that IMAP/SSL implementation :)

AlphaWolf

15-Apr-2011, 08:00

Anand updated his review. The javascript test is much closer (within 5% of ipad2, as opposed to almost double) with version 0.9.1.

Mize

15-Apr-2011, 09:39

Bummer that you cannot create or edit presentations on DTG. I didn't realize they were still stuck in their PalmOS feature set days.

Lazy8s

15-Apr-2011, 09:44

Before I decided on getting an iPad 2, I couldn't imagine a tablet being of much use to me at all.

Now, with all these videos of amazing Playbook demonstrations, I'm having a hard time stopping myself from believing I have a real need for another, smaller tablet in addition to my first tablet.

Ack, gadget lust. That Playbook multitasking UI coupled with the graphics and video hardware is compelling me.

Mize

15-Apr-2011, 12:30

Lol. Tell me about it. In trying to escape dragging my laptop to Asia all the time I will soon be dragging an iPad 2, Playbook & HP Touchpad. Dork toys!

I feel like installing Linux on something now...

eastmen

15-Apr-2011, 20:35

Why would u want this when you can buy a full windows tablet and actually have email ?

(yea i'm tired of everyone shitting up the windows tablet thread)

Scott_Arm

15-Apr-2011, 21:17

Why would u want this when you can buy a full windows tablet and actually have email ?

(yea i'm tired of everyone shitting up the windows tablet thread)

I can have email on a Playbook either through my Blackberry or through the web browser, since I only use webmail. There will most likely be a multitude of mail applications.

My reasons for wanting the Playbook:
1. looks like a good piece of hardware
2. OS and interface look nice
3. I like the portability. iPad is bigger than what I want. Playbook is maybe too small, but I'll see. Maybe the magic number for me is in the 8.5" range, but the iPad is not the form factor I want.
4. Full featured web browser with flash support
5. I have friends that work at RIM
6. support the last Canadian tech giant (buy local)
7. leverages the Blackberry I own. iPhone was never an option on this network
8. Not worried about app support. It will come over time, even though they'll remain significantly behind in the raw number of apps available. Any new players are going to be at a disadvantage in this area.
9. Not interested in being locked into Apple's ecosystem on a computing device. I know you can get around it with jailbreak etc, but I'd prefer not to do that. My growing dislike of Apple and their policies regarding content ownership and distribution make me want to stay away from their iOS products.
10. May be easier for me to write apps and compete in the marketplace because of fewer players
11. Hmmmmm ... Support the underdog, the competition or something like that?
12. I got a bonus and I'm irresponsible with my money

A windows tablet might be very nice, actually, but I'm looking to try something different. I'm a big Google user, but for some reason I've never had an interest in the Android devices. Seems to Linuxy for my tastes.

AlphaWolf

15-Apr-2011, 22:09

0LyxygVrHz0

Who needs apps when you have flash.

Scott_Arm

15-Apr-2011, 23:17

Native email client in the first 60 days:

http://crackberry.com/native-email-and-apps-coming-blackberry-playbook-60-days

Mize

15-Apr-2011, 23:49

Why would u want this when you can buy a full windows tablet and actually have email ?

(yea i'm tired of everyone shitting up the windows tablet thread)

When Windows (8) runs for 10+ hours with a finger-intuitive interface like the Playbook, WebOS or even iOS then I will definitely want one. It's going to be fun these next five years as Windows and x86 push down and ARM (OMAP, etc.) + the tablet OSes push UP.

Competition will be awesome.

Mize

16-Apr-2011, 00:13

Why would u want this when you can buy a full windows tablet and actually have email ?

(yea i'm tired of everyone shitting up the windows tablet thread)

BTW, why are you so uptight about Windows?
Windows is for GAMES!
(and 3D CAD)
and no tablet is going to play Crysis (not 2, but the real one) at acceptable performance any time soon!

Linux and OSX are for work :)

eastmen

16-Apr-2011, 05:57

I can have email on a Playbook either through my Blackberry or through the web browser, since I only use webmail. There will most likely be a multitude of mail applications.

My reasons for wanting the Playbook:
1. looks like a good piece of hardware
2. OS and interface look nice
3. I like the portability. iPad is bigger than what I want. Playbook is maybe too small, but I'll see. Maybe the magic number for me is in the 8.5" range, but the iPad is not the form factor I want.
4. Full featured web browser with flash support
5. I have friends that work at RIM
6. support the last Canadian tech giant (buy local)
7. leverages the Blackberry I own. iPhone was never an option on this network
8. Not worried about app support. It will come over time, even though they'll remain significantly behind in the raw number of apps available. Any new players are going to be at a disadvantage in this area.
9. Not interested in being locked into Apple's ecosystem on a computing device. I know you can get around it with jailbreak etc, but I'd prefer not to do that. My growing dislike of Apple and their policies regarding content ownership and distribution make me want to stay away from their iOS products.
10. May be easier for me to write apps and compete in the marketplace because of fewer players
11. Hmmmmm ... Support the underdog, the competition or something like that?
12. I got a bonus and I'm irresponsible with my money

A windows tablet might be very nice, actually, but I'm looking to try something different. I'm a big Google user, but for some reason I've never had an interest in the Android devices. Seems to Linuxy for my tastes.

some good reasons. You should know that one of the companys is making a 8 inch andriod tablet

BTW, why are you so uptight about Windows?
Windows is for GAMES!
(and 3D CAD)
and no tablet is going to play Crysis (not 2, but the real one) at acceptable performance any time soon!

Linux and OSX are for work

everyone is shiiting up the single windows tablet thread with ipad and andriod info that i thought i'd share the pain with the black berry people.

Btw i would never use an apple product at work. I want to set the 50 imacs we have in the school district on fire . I've never seen such pos machines in my life they are allways breaking down

Sxotty

16-Apr-2011, 17:22

I am teaching a course and none of the mac users can manage to hook their machines to a projector. It is pretty hilarious. It is just an issue of the resolution, but they are too clueless to know.

Dave Glue

18-Apr-2011, 14:30

0LyxygVrHz0

Who needs apps when you have flash.
...one of the reasons is shown by that video: Interface. Flash sites are just not made for a finger interface, there are a number of very tiny elements he has to navigate in that video that aren't condusive to finger manipulation.

Mize

18-Apr-2011, 15:51

Btw i would never use an apple product at work. I want to set the 50 imacs we have in the school district on fire . I've never seen such pos machines in my life they are allways breaking down

you just need some better IT people. I have a mixture of XP, Vista , Linux and OSX machines and the latter two a basically maintenance free. My own main work machine is a MacBook pro running OSX with a Linux vm and an XP vm. The XP vm runs off my windows partition so any changes I make are there when I boot into game mode. I have apps under OSX that run circles around their much more expensive windows equivalents.

Maybe your can't handle OSX IT people need to learn a little unix and learn how to set up there users correctly? How one manages to "break down" any version of unix when IT has a clue is beyond me. The only routinely buggy software I have on OSX is office 2011 which is just as buggy on my W7 machines in the 2010 flavor.

If it weren't for things like Autodesk and Unigraphics, W7 would be a purely gaming OS for me.

AlphaWolf

18-Apr-2011, 18:39

...one of the reasons is shown by that video: Interface. Flash sites are just not made for a finger interface, there are a number of very tiny elements he has to navigate in that video that aren't condusive to finger manipulation.

and yet he didn't have much trouble doing it, but if you're that gimped you can always buy a pen.

Mize

19-Apr-2011, 17:33

I am teaching a course and none of the mac users can manage to hook their machines to a projector. It is pretty hilarious. It is just an issue of the resolution, but they are too clueless to know.

Your projector doesn't give its resolution automatically? What is it, 20 years old? Fwiw I've hooked mine to virtually everything without ever a hiccup.

Scott_Arm

19-Apr-2011, 18:30

So, I took the irresponsible and ill-advised plunge. I guess that's what getting a bonus at work can do to you. I'll post some impressions later, but I did have some time to toy with the demo unit in the story. Not much I can say, because the store didn't have wi-fi and the unit was strapped to a desk. The screen is really really nice. The pixel density makes the preloaded photos look gorgeous. The way the unit was strapped down, I couldn't really point the camera at anything other than the table it was on. When I've had some time to mess with it, I'll give my impressions, and I can answer whatever questions you guys might have. There were quite a few people in the store looking at it, and asking about pricing/stock. They had the smaller 16GB in stock, but all of the larger capacities were pre-orders. While it wasn't exactly busting down the doors, there did seem to be some interest.

AlphaWolf

19-Apr-2011, 18:43

Posting this reply from my playbook. Thumb typing is doable even in landscape mode. The camera is decent although it isn't exactly rapid fire. The stereo speakers are a nice touch.

Getting setup is really easy, just fire it up and connect to wifi, it installed the new OS (which took about 10 minutes as it was quite large). It walks you through a couple of basic tutorials and you're off. I haven't even taken the cables out of the box yet.

I'll post more impressions later.

Lazy8s

19-Apr-2011, 19:25

How solid is the browser for viewing forums, typing and doing basic cut/copy/paste of the text, and handling multiple open pages?

Just having such decent Flash support is a major draw for me.

Scott_Arm

19-Apr-2011, 23:35

How solid is the browser for viewing forums, typing and doing basic cut/copy/paste of the text, and handling multiple open pages?

Just having such decent Flash support is a major draw for me.

So far so good. Responding with my playbook right now. Two thumb typing in landscape works really well. Pages load quick and switching between tabs is fast. swipe down from the top bezel to drop down the menu bar with tab thumbnails and tap on the one you want. They stay loaded in the background.

Portrait mode is a little small to read unless you zoom in the page a bit but the two thumb typing works really well. So far a very good typing experience for a touch keyboard. I like the size of this thing, but wish web pages were a little more readable zoomed out in portrait orientation.

Copy and paste is really easy. You just hold your finger on the text box for a second and two markers appear on the screen as well as buttons for copy and cancel. You just drag the markers to encapsulate the text and click copy.

If you double tap inside a text box it will zoom the screen in to fit that element by width. The same works for other elements like pictures and text.

You can disable flash and javascript in the browser settings.

Netflix web streaming does not work because there is no Silverlight support. Not sure if there is a way around that. How do they stream on iPad? Have to wait for an app I guess.

The test video it comes with looks very very good. This this has a great bright screen.

AlphaWolf

20-Apr-2011, 02:23

yep the screen is very bright, very readable in sunlight and at angles.

Scott_Arm

20-Apr-2011, 03:36

I like the rubber backing.

Lazy8s

20-Apr-2011, 10:00

Seems fairly competent, then, in addition to the fuller browsing experience.

I've preferred iOS for all the little things it gets right, like the magnifier for exact placement of the cursor, the amount of screen it leaves for visual context and for page control around a text box when the keyboard is up, etc. When I've wanted to experience pages in their greater Flash splendor, Android has been a good diversion. BlackBerry sounds like it has a lot of potential to be solid all around.

Scott_Arm

20-Apr-2011, 13:14

Full facebook site works as it would on a pc browser. Any other sites you want me to try out when I get home from work?

Moving the cursor through text is kind of crap. The magnifying glass in iOS is much better the trying to tap the exact spot. I zoom to make it easier. At least I make almost zero mistakes typing on this thing. Typing is great.

Scott_Arm

20-Apr-2011, 15:45

Wow, the Cult of Mac (In this case literally), is really going heavy on the Playbook bashing: http://www.cultofmac.com/ifixit-tears-down-the-blackberry-playbook/91235

There is definitely a void in terms of additional software, that will hopefully be filled if the device isn't DOA. I'd like for there to be a few good instant messaging apps soon, that I can use with Google Talk. Chatting through the gmail web interface isn't ideal.

The Playbook definitely has a few strengths. The way wifi file sharing works is great. I also appreciate that I don't have to convert avi videos before I put them on the device. Hopefully mkv support will come.

RIM kind of messed up this launch.

Hardware - A
OS - A
Preloaded software - C/D (what's there is good, but some things are missing)
3rd party software - F (The native app SDK should have been available before the launch)

The foundation is there for a very good device, but people are going to go where there is an abundance of applications without so many holes. It's unfortunate that the device will be chastised as crap, when really it's a very good device. Having a rock solid browser means I can get the information I need, but some people want an app for sports scores, rather than browsing to ESPN or whatever their preferred site is.

Mize

20-Apr-2011, 15:52

Meh. Best to ignore fanatics. Get a solid imap client and Skype with video and it is a great tablet.

Scott_Arm

20-Apr-2011, 16:16

Meh. Best to ignore fanatics. Get a solid imap client and Skype with video and it is a great tablet.

I hope that the platform isn't abandoned before it has a chance to fill in the software gaps. It seems the mind-share is very bad right now. The commitment to bringing QNX to their phones will hopefully push Playbook development, even if sales are poor. It'll be interesting to see if the corporate and government sales take off.

Arun

20-Apr-2011, 16:22

Sigh, you're all making me jealous. I was in the USA until the 18th, wish I had booked my flight one day later :( Importing it via Ebay looks fairly expensive too right now, hopefully will get more reasonable soon. FWIW, I tried the Playbook at MWC11, and was really impressed - way more than by any Android tablet (and by HP's WebOS tablet, although that was demo-only and I couldn't touch it). Good to see that they've delivered on the browser, hopefully many more apps will be coming sooner rather than later.

Mize

20-Apr-2011, 16:52

QNX with webOS-like GUI is a great goal. WebOS is hard to beat for usability, but Palm have a solid track record of coding their OSes into corners where QNX clearly doesn't.

Lazy8s

20-Apr-2011, 17:06

Scott_Arm

20-Apr-2011, 18:28

This is a pretty cool feature. Hopefully they'll eventually allow you to answer calls on your playbook if you have a headset. I don't know if it has a microphone or not. http://crackberry.com/blackberry-playbook-shows-incoming-calls-when-bridged-your-blackberry-smartphone

Scott_Arm

20-Apr-2011, 18:30

Yeah, I have to set my iPad down in front of me to be able to type reasonably, though it works really well like that. A 7" tab should fit some other usage scenarios for me quite well, I imagine, considering the larger size of my hands would make it almost like a spacious smartphone form factor.

I really just want to get some time to play around with one, using that multitasking interface and experimenting with the performance -- 3D in one window, video in another, a complex webpage in another, etc.

One question I have after seeing videos of the robust multitasking is whether the audio from a webpage, like a running YouTube video, will play in the background when you're in another window or application. Does it work more like a PC in that regard where the full process including audio still plays or does it stop even the audio process like on other phone OSs?

Thanks!

You can set if background apps continue to run or pause when you switch to another app. I'll check if the sound continues to play from movies etc in the background.

There should be units on display in stores like Best Buy. They had them on display in Futureshop, which is basically exactly the same store.

edit: So the answer to sound and background apps isn't that simple. You can set some general rules but there are exceptions for the music and video players. The default behaviour is for all apps to stay active in the backgound until another app is loaded in fullscreen. So if you were playing a vid in youtube and brought up thumbnails it would stay active until you selected another fullscreen app. I'm not sure what the real difference between that and the 'paused' setting is where all background apps are paused. Then there is showcase where all background apps continue running.

The exceptions to the rule are the preloaded music and video apps. On the default setting the music player will play in the background while browsing or gaming etc. The other exception is the video player which seems to pause all background apps while playing regardless of the app behaviour setting.

Scott_Arm

20-Apr-2011, 23:11

VPN Support:

Check Point Software Technologies
Cisco VPN gatewayType 3000
CIsco Secure PIX Firewall VPN
Cisco IOS with Easy VPN Server
Cisco ASA
Juniper VPN series
Microsoft IKEv2 VPN Server
Generic IKEv2 VPN Server

Mize

21-Apr-2011, 00:10

arg. No openvpn support? Seriously?

Scott_Arm

21-Apr-2011, 00:26

arg. No openvpn support? Seriously?

Doesn't look like it.

Scott_Arm

21-Apr-2011, 04:14

Hulu is now blocked on the Playbook. It worked, and now it doesn't, because the Playbook is an "unsupported device." I guess watching video through a web browser isn't the same if that device is small and portable, or Big Media seems to think so.

Mize

21-Apr-2011, 04:57

Hulu sucks. They have struggled to block playon media server for nearly two years.

Scott_Arm

21-Apr-2011, 13:28

Hulu sucks. They have struggled to block playon media server for nearly two years.

I cant use it in Canada anyway.

AlphaWolf

21-Apr-2011, 20:04

I spent some time on gaming on my playbook last night while watching hockey.

NFS Undercover (included with the playbook) runs very smoothly, the gesture and accelerometer controls work well. The game looks and sounds good for a portable and its fairly engaging and ideal to play in small servings as missions typically take a few minutes. The only complaint I'd have is some load screens load before you can read the mission parameters, but its not like they are hard to figure out.

Tetris is tetris, the touch controls work fine. Magic mode has some accelerometer based stuff and some gesture requirement which work fine once you know how to use them (instructions are for suckers).

In hours of playing I never experienced a hiccup in either game. 2.5 hours of playing used about 30% of my battery (I have brightness at about 50%), so I'd figure near 8 hours for a full charge.

I also tried some angry birds on a flash site, I could play it, but the touch controls were less than ideal and the performance was spotty. It would seem to work fine at times and other times it would be a slideshow. Not sure if its just that game that site or not, really didn't spend a lot of time on it.

Scott_Arm

21-Apr-2011, 20:27

Yeah, I have my screen brightness lowered as well. Mostly just been browsing, but in a couple of nights of use, with mostly browsing, some youtube, a bit of HD streaming from the National Film Board of Canada and a bit of mp3 playing, I only dropped down to 50%. I think I have my screen set to less than 50%. Maybe 30%, but my apartment is dark so I can get away with it. The screen is REALLY bright, so I think lowering brightness is a very good idea to preserve battery life.

Valzic

22-Apr-2011, 14:47

I bought a 32Gb Playbook and been enjoying it immensely. The latest download today even made the Tablet crisper and even more responsive. The app list keeps getting longer and longer.

Still missing some of the big names, Kindle reader and such but they supposedly coming. This is going to be addictive...found myself reading the Playbook while frying eggs this morning :shock:

Looks like the sales for day one were not too bad - over 50,000. Good start and from reading forums more are being sold from others seeing people use. With a few more apps (business ones) I can definetly seeing my laptop retire during client visits.

Very good impression so far.

Mize

22-Apr-2011, 21:27

I've decided I need small, medium and large tablets :)

Playbook
ipad 2
Touchpad

Joe DeFuria

26-Apr-2011, 02:24

I spent some time in BestBuy today playing with one. (Just got back from a Utah vacation so this was my first opportunity to try one.) Was impressed the the browser, multitasking, and UI responsiveness. I bridged to to my own bberry phone with no issues and played with the bridged apps. As expected, typing in portrait mode (thumbing) feels practically no different than typing on a smart phone. (It's comfortable...which is good.)

Though one consequence of the brand new OS is that the QNX keyboard and BBerry touch screen keyboard (I have a Storm) are different...so it will take a little getting used to and not as seemless when switching from the Storm to the tablet for typing. Hopefully with new revisions they'll make things a bit more consistent.

I've just about decided to pick one up...and at worst would return it during the return period. I might wait for one more OS update prior to getting it though.

The playbook would likely be my trveling companion...though I could also see getting a larger form factor for "stay at home use"...and one with more apps...iPad2 being the logical choice.

AlphaWolf

26-Apr-2011, 02:46

well there have been 2 or 3 updates since release,you might not have to wait long.

Scott_Arm

26-Apr-2011, 05:38

the only thing I would really like that isn't available is a good IM client. I wish the native sdk was available on day 1 because I think we'd see apps rolling out faster. Flash apps are not perfectly suited to everything, and neither is the web sdk. Hopefully there will be some announcements at the Blackberry conference next week.

wco81

26-Apr-2011, 17:34

Don't they push their BBM thing more than other IM services? I'm sure they'll get those too but I think they rely on BBM to keep people using their phones.

Scott_Arm

26-Apr-2011, 18:16

Don't they push their BBM thing more than other IM services? I'm sure they'll get those too but I think they rely on BBM to keep people using their phones.

RIM makes MSN, Google Talk and a number of other IM clients for their phones as well. Plus, there will definitely be third party ones available. I'd also like BBM on my Playbook.

wco81

29-Apr-2011, 08:35

Wall Street didn't like RIMM's numbers for last quarter, taking the stock down over 10% in after hours.

Poor sales of Blackberry and lower guidance.

They did not change the guidance for the Playbook though. They need QNX to be successful, especially for new phone designs, to stop the bleeding.

Scott_Arm

29-Apr-2011, 21:21

Blackberry OS 6.1 now renamed OS 7 should be a very nice improvement, but I don't think it'll really draw attention the way QNX will.

I hope the Playbook can gain a bit of momentum, but I think until the native SDK or the Android player are out, the app world is going to stagnate.

Scott_Arm

30-Apr-2011, 00:31

Native facebook app is coming to playbook, even though the facebook site works perfectly in the browser.

http://crackberry.com/rim-outs-all-new-blackberry-bold-touch-ahead-blackberry-world

tangey

01-May-2011, 20:25

Interesting BBC feature on playbook with an interview with RIM's Mike Lazaridis.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/click_online/

Highlights are

1) "...as we start focusing the entire company on the playbook platform for our super-phones that are coming..."

i wonder can we read from that, that QNX will be on RIM smartphones, if so, might it suggest a move towards TI for phones ? (The processor running QNX is the playbook).

2) he is clearly taken aback and the interview is terminated ("turn that off",pointing to the camera) when he is asked about the security issues that have bee raised in India (I didn't know this but apparently there is an issue that RIM's email encryption is prompting some countries to require an entry to allow emails to be decrypted if needed, including India who are threatening to ban blackberrys).