I thought Lynnfield and Bloomfield were the "same"

[gongo]

http://images.hardwarecanucks.com/image/mac/reviews/intel/lynnfield/corei5_corei7_11.jpg

See above. Bloomfield cooler left, Lynnfield cooler right. What the hell did Intel do to Lynnfield? I mean the TDP went from 130w to 95w...but look at that cooler, it is almost like for dual core Atom use...lolz. ah the wonders of silicon engineering...Lynnfield gained more transistors (integrated PCIe but less one memory controller), uses smaller heat spreader...on a smaller package...still has the HT logic ala Bloomfield. I think i overestimated....how hot modern CPU really are. But Bloomfield is deemed hot by Intel..and i heard it is (70-80C stressed overclocked)....what makes Bloomfield so much hotter than Lynnfield seeing as the main components are teh "same"?

[Silent_Buddha]

Lynnfield uses less power overall, thus less heat. Also, with Lynnfield they moved away from overspec'd heatsinks in an effort to reduce costs as much as they could.

Lynnfield also loses out a lot of the stuff that Bloomfield has. Loses both QPI links to chipset and other CPUs. Loses 1 channel of memory. Implemented better power management, especially at idle.

Load power isn't significantly lower at load between i5-750 and i7-920 at approximately 20 watts higher for i7-920. So the CPU heatsink is more a matter of cost reduction than the fact that it's THAT much less heat output at load.

Idle power on the other hand is a LOT lower on Lynnfield. Which along with higher turbo speeds on the i7 models and cheaper MBs made me choose it over Bloomfield.

Regards,
SB

[gongo]

Stolen from google

Lynnfield vs Phenom II cooler
http://www.abload.de/img/720750sidendbg.jpg

Phenom II vs Phenom II BE cooler
http://www.abload.de/img/720965sidexfkm.jpg

and then we have this giant..
http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/6020/bh5516.jpg

Intel must over rated Bloomfield TDP ...because Lynnfield cooler is about the same size as Core 2 Duo cooler! Impressive same 45nm...but a more advanced microarch....same tiny cooler...or Intel is cutting too much costs...

[Blazkowicz]

I went from a single core Sempron (45 watts TDP) to a dual core Athlon (65 watts).. and was puzzled to get a smaller heatsink. It's still dead silent and revs < 1000 rpm anyway, with a real power use much below the TDP I believe.

[digitalwanderer]

Can I just once again say that I REALLY wish Intel would get rid of the stupid 4 push pin retention mechanism for their coolers? I still hate it to death. :(

[Davros]

i broke one of mine, replaced it with a nut and bolt
infact if the standard intel cooler came with 4 nuts and bolts or 4 long screwsthat would be fine with me

[swaaye]

plastic push pins made in volumes of 80 zillion are probably a few cents cheaper. ;)

[Thorburn]

I must be the only person in the world who likes the push pins, they are dead easy, twist clockwise, line up the pins with the holes, push down to fit, twist anti-clockwise, lift and pull the body of the heatsink up to remove.

Much quicker and easier than searching for a screwdriver then having the mounting plate drop off the back of the board and having to take out the whole motherboard to do a CPU change.

That said I probably do 30+ CPU changes some days, so I've had plenty practice.

Lynnfield has some extra power gating (uncore is gated unlike on Bloomfield I believe), but really this won't factor into the TDP as under load it doesn't apply. Bear in mind typically Bloomfield will not reach TDP without Turbo Mode enabled, so a large part of this is going to be headroom to Turbo under multi-core loads, allowing it to typically run +1 bin even in multi-threaded workloads.

Lynnfield on the other hand in tests like Cinebench can briefly Turbo +1 bin, then gets pegged back to the base frequency due to running into its TDP limit.

[Blazkowicz]

well the modern AMD stuff was so easy I had trouble believing it. Intel stuff breaks, or have to be reseated - remember those Pentium 4 idling at 80°C in the BIOS, after the PC was transported.

[Thorburn]

well the modern AMD stuff was so easy I had trouble believing it. Intel stuff breaks, or have to be reseated - remember those Pentium 4 idling at 80°C in the BIOS, after the PC was transported.

We ship systems throughout EMEA regularly mostly without issue, most problems come from people who re-mount them without pushing the pins down or leaving them unlocked (pins twisted anti-clockwise so the pin and lift out and the heatsink rattles out the board).
I will admit though I've had to troubleshoot an i5 press kit returned as faulty by a journalist who hadn't pushed the pins down so it wasn't applying any pressure, so even 'experts' seem to struggle at times :roll:

They aren't perfect and you can break them if you're cack handed, but if you have any kind of mechanical sympathy and know how they work they're fine.

I've had AM2/AM3 standard heatsinks snap lugs off the mounts or have levers shear, so they aren't flawless either, its swings and roundabouts really.

I've also watched an intern fit an LGA775 CPU in a socket backwards, over the keying pins, and then kill the motherboard FORCING the socket clamp shut, no matter what you do some idiot won't be able to work it.

[Davros]

unfortunately its easy to push the pin down were the black pin and only 1 white pin (or 1 half of the white) pin go through the hole and the white half breaks off
http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/c41f0cc616.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)

[Thorburn]

unfortunately its easy to push the pin down were the black pin and only 1 white pin (or 1 half of the white) pin go through the hole and the white half breaks off
http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/c41f0cc616.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)

That would be a fine example of being cack handed, if you make sure the white legs are through the holes (press gently on the metal by them and give the pin a quick wiggle) then you won't have any problems.

Most people just need to RTFM.

[Silent_Buddha]

Even Scythe agree's to an extent that the push pins suck. They are offering kits to swap out push pins for a different mechanism using screws for some of their more popular heatsinks.

Although I think I prefer push pins to the stupid system on the Coolermaster GeminII S. UGH. Royal pain in the arse not being able to remove and put back the heatsink without removing the motherboard.

If you're going to use a backplate, secure the damn thing so you can remove the heatsink (to access cable plug in's covered by the heatsink or replace HS paste) without removing the damn MB.

Regards,
SB

[ShaidarHaran]

The push pins are generally ok for stock coolers, but they are absolutely horrible when combined with aftermarket coolers which have larger footprints that get in the way during installation.

[Blazkowicz]

probably it's more OEM-friendly, while AMD systems are more likely to bet put together by consumers, and thus more consumer-proof.

Some consumers can manage to insert an ISA card in a PCI slot. Fragile plastic pins aren't a good idea there :lol:
I'm used to removing the motherboard myself : sometimes you have to do it because it's a cramped case with a crappy µATX motherboard, and I was used to the Duron's single latch old-style heatsink - insane amount of pressure needed.

[swaaye]

Early Socket A coolers did have crazy tight clips. Motherboards were at risk there if the screwdriver slipped. I remember being terrified putting coolers on some of the early Tbirds and Durons.. After a couple of years they managed to redesign the clips though and they became quite acceptable. Or perhaps they just reduced the pressure on the core....

Like Shaidar said, the push pins are particularly a bitch when you have a big cooler that covers them up and you can't easily access them. You end up with a situation where removing the mobo is the least finger-damaging way to go and so skipping the push pins and going with nuts, bolts and plastic washers is just as easy and way more secure. I just deal with the pins though....

AMD isn't in the clear entirely either though. I think they took a step back when they went from 939's triple tab mechanism to the current single tab design. Why do that? It's clearly less stable and less sturdy. Head scratcher there too.

[nutball]

Most people just need to RTFM.

Well TFM I read didn't have any words in it, it consisted of something like three pictures.

These push-clips might be simple and intuitive if you do them 30 times a day, as you say you do, but if you encounter them once every couple of months it's a perennial "eh? oh, how do these bloody things work again?" experience. So, in all due respect and bowing to your experience and wisdom, if you do them 30 times a day you're precisely the wrong person to be assessing whether they're any good for an occasional user!

[hoom]

Early Socket A coolers did have crazy tight clips. Motherboards were at risk there if the screwdriver slipped. I remember being terrified putting coolers on some of the early Tbirds and Durons.Indeed, I had a bunch of scratches on my Socket A mobos from that & I'm a pretty careful guy.
Have only done the one install with the push-pins. Was vastly better than those screw-driver nightmares.

[Blazkowicz]

I killed a perfectly working mobo with the screw-driver trick, in the process of replacing a 700MHz CPU with a 2000MHz CPU. A good asrock mobo, supporting sdram and AGP 1x/2x video cards (thus my three quarters GB ram and my voodoo5). duh :)

oh, and now that I remember it, I remember with friends playing with the 486s in the late nineties. The nameless 486 socket was fun (it's not the socket 3 with lever), it was "low insertion force", that means you had to pull it like mad to get it out (sockets after that were "zero insertion force")

but the 486 DX 33 had no heatsink ;). you could also bend pins at will.

the 486 DX/4 was funny. I had warned my friend never to put it in the mobo (old, ISA/VLB with IDE and floppy on the a controller card, none of that integrated junk and PCI stuff!). but he did anyway.
If you do that, your only option is to watch the DX/4 burn from severe overvoltage :lol:.

[swaaye]

Yeah I go back to 486 socket 1 myself. You just had to pry each side of the CPU up a little at a time with those pre-ZIF sockets. I first overclocked by swapping my mobo clock crystal (they were socketed back then) so I could go from 25 MHz bus to 33 or 40. None of this modern day "enthusiast" mobo stuff that's all cool and trendy for the street racer crowd, with supermodels and poster boy gamers, and software-based tweaking nonsense endorsed by all the companies. Just black magic voodoo arts and scary newsgroups with sparse info on what to do. What an adventure that was hehe.;)

I still regret not taking the risk when my dad forbid me from looking inside our Tandy 1000TX back in the day. That shall forever haunt me, I tell you. My original rig and I never saw the innards....

Of course the real men are those who go even further back and soldered their machines together themselves. :shock: Now that's enthusiasm.

[Lightman]

I was soldering 50MHz oscillators on some A1240/40 cards (MC68040/40MHz) :cool:
Also adding an FPU to your computer was a funny experience. I've mastered both PLCC and PGA types back in old days :grin:.