Matrox: Launch date official - May 14th. [Archive]

Joe DeFuria

07-May-2002, 16:00

Nothing earth shattering, as this was the commonly known "rumor date" for the unveiling of Matrox's new part ("Parhelia"). But at least the May 14th date is now publically "official."

http://www.matrox.com/mga/home.htm

One week to go. ;)

Nappe1

07-May-2002, 16:02

Joe: god damn, you were faster... :)
just a few seconds faster. :)

well, I deleted another thread. :)

umm, hey, how I gonna get down from here?? I mean from roof... :D

I just can't wait! This is Great! another problem is how I am going to able keep my mouth shut up, before launch... so far, every piece have matched to this puzzle... :lol:

muted

07-May-2002, 16:35

rumors, indicate that doom3 may not be demoed at e3 with a nvidia card..

that means matrox finally got opengl right ... well at least better than before

Dave Baumann

07-May-2002, 16:58

rumors, indicate that doom3 may not be demoed at e3 with a nvidia card..

Well, I've not heard these rumours but unless they are specifically saying that its being demo'ed on a Matrox card then I'd say that 3Dlabs are in with a good shout as well. I don't know how programmable/flexible Matrox's part is but 3Dlabs is certianly goes the most towards Carmacks calls so far (Higher precision, Virtual Texturing, programmability).

Joe DeFuria

07-May-2002, 17:10

Oh, and based on the teaser graphics and some other rumors at MURC, the official name of the new chip / card will in fact be "Parhelia." ;)

Fruitfrenzy

07-May-2002, 17:15

Quake 3 was first demoed on ATI hardware. Is it that unthinkable that Doom 3 may be as well ?

Saem

07-May-2002, 17:31

Quake 3 was first demoed on ATI hardware. Is it that unthinkable that Doom 3 may be as well ?

That's what I find really amusing, it couldn't possibly be one of the fastest and most feature rich cards on the market, right?

Chances are, from the cards available CURRENTLY, I'm pretty sure the game will look best on the ATI 8500, they've got better shaders and plenty of raw power polies/texturing and besides, didn't Carmack's last .plan said he's done the work for the 8500 code path? So it should be good to go.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

BenM

07-May-2002, 17:53

As exciting as a Matrox launch is, and not to rain on the Parhelia parade, but assuming that Parhelia is some uber chip, seeing as it took them this long to get it out the door, it would seem to me that Nvidia and ATI could catch up rather quickly.

Or, Matrox takes a strong lead, and gets busting on another chip. As it sits now though, it seems that their development cycle rivals 3dfx.

Tagrineth

07-May-2002, 17:58

Hehehe...

News stuck to the front, complete with plug for Joe DeFuria ;)

Gunhead

07-May-2002, 18:04

<mumble> Who cares about Doom3, when it is demoed, and with what? </mumble>

Parhelia is public in a week. Yeeee-haaaa!!! Some say it's still a month or two to shipping cards, but who cares. YeeeEEEE-HHHAAAAAA!!!!!

Nappe, c'mon, is it really 4 pipes, 4 TMUs each? 256-bit wide DDR? How about them groundbreaking video features? Spit it out now, be a sport. :lol:

Nappe1

07-May-2002, 18:11

GunHead: No Comment yet.

there is too high risk that some ppl get in troubles if my infos are right...
of course there is also a trouble that I am in pee, if my infos are incorrect and I hype them, but basically I lost my all respect with Bitboys Avalanche ( no, neither they are dead. Just quiet... ;) ) so that really isn't a good reason...

anyways, Maybe I'll drop few hints during this week.

one thing I can say: I am SOLD! and I want that card asap, though it would cost a small fortune.

Wenzula

07-May-2002, 18:21

Hmm, what should i say... matrox is back... and they will be respnosible that some other firms will get in trouble

hmm, did someone realize that the nvidia stocks are falling :-)

hmm, it is really a pity that some small canadian firm do not have some...

At last, we will see more soon...

midnight creature

07-May-2002, 18:56

I might not get the 8500LE if this is sub 200 or if it blows me and my neighbor for less than 300.

Joe DeFuria

07-May-2002, 19:07

Chances are, from the cards available CURRENTLY, I'm pretty sure the game will look best on the ATI 8500...and besides, didn't Carmack's last .plan said he's done the work for the 8500 code path?

Well, in Carmack's latest relvant .plan, he basically said the following:
1) Radeon 8500 is a "fine card" for Doom 3
2) There was some technical issue that he felt was holding back Radeon 8500 performance from realizing it's potential. He's not sure if it can be worked around or not.
3) He was "guessing" that the GeForce3 would be a "safer buy" for Doom3.

Now, that was quite a while ago before several driver releases so who knows if things have changed. However, based on what he said back then, I would conclude that the Geforce4 would be the best of the "current cards" to display Doom3 on.

Though for all we know, ATI will launch the Radeon 8500 successor (R250?) at e3, and maybe it will be displayed on that. ;)

I am hoping that Doom3 is displayed on either the Matrox or 3D Labs part though...because that will give some instant credibility to the GL drivers (as far as gaming goes.) The current rumor surrounding Doom3 is that it will be shown on a "multimonitor" rig...add that to the Parhelia triple-head rumors, and the "Doom3 will be shown on Parhelia" rumor is born. ;)

Nappe1

07-May-2002, 19:17

*after Joe's post Nappe1 bites his tongue...

Saem

07-May-2002, 19:32

Joe,

I'm going to have to disagree Carmack doesn't really show oodles of enthusiasm in his posts. If he says it's fine, I'm guess that's a strong complement. I think he was bumed because it didn't reach his full potentail, but I think the shading effects on the 8500 will be superior, they are more flexible and capable. The latest ATI betas are supposed to do wonder for OpenGL performance, so I think things might be different.

Joe DeFuria

07-May-2002, 19:39

I agree that Carmack saying "it's fine" is indeed a strong compliment. I also agree that Radeon's shaders are more capable and flexible...so does Carmack. The fact that the Radeon didn't do as well as he thought it should based on its increased flexibility is the problem.

The most notorious fix in the recent GL betas is the one for the "GLExcess / high-Poly" bug, which is a texturing issue. Carmack is in fcat on record saying that particular bug fix did not address the specific technical issue he was speaking of in his plan. This is not to say that he doesn't have drivers that have significantly boosted Radeon performance, I'm just saying we don't have any evidence that he had.

I own a Radeon 8500, and fully expect it to be a "fine" card for Doom 3. ;) However, based on Carmack's known statments I'm not expecting it to be as good as a GeForce 4 ti 4600, that's all. ;)

Saem

07-May-2002, 20:31

However, based on Carmack's known statments I'm not expecting it to be as good as a GeForce 4 ti 4600, that's all.

How about the following statement. Since the 8500 is more flexible and capable it'll have more visual detail (greater amounts of effects possible) or perhaps run at a higher visual detail (more effects at once, there maybe some level of effects setting). But due to the fact that the GF4 has more raw power (texturing/poly) and so it'll be able to run with a greater amount of filter/FSAA or resultion.

Joe DeFuria

07-May-2002, 21:01

Personally, I don't see it. The only way Carmack is planning on taking advantage of Radeon's more flexible hardware is to increase performance. As we know, Radeon's increased shader flexibility is supposed to give it "relatively more raw power" when rendering a Doom3 type scene, due to fewer rendering passes being required compared to a GeForce board.

Carmack is coding a Radeon specific code-path, but not for the speicific purpose of putting in more or "higher quality effects" for the platform...it's just to wring out as much performance as possible on the platform. I fully expect GeForce / Radeon quality to be very similar.

Just for reference, here's a link to the relevant .plan update:
(See February Entry)

http://www.webdog.org/cgi-bin/finger.pl?id=1&time=20020315204819&highlight=carma ck

Again, I am certainly hopeful that whatever issue ATI had identified as being the likely culprit for lower than expected performance is something they can address with a driver update. Even if they can't "fix" it, I am fully content knowing that the Radeon's performance is at GeForce3 levels, which is the same for every other game.

Saem

07-May-2002, 21:06

Even if they can't "fix" it, I am fully content knowing that the Radeon's performance is at GeForce3 levels, which is the same for every other game.

Pfft, other games. ;P

Nappe1

07-May-2002, 21:18

they sure take all the publicity they can get... Now we know the time too. :)

Quote from Matrox newsletter that I received about 5 minutes ago:
----------------

From: Matrox In-the-Loop newsletter <newsletter@matrox.com>

************************************************** *************************

Who: Matrox Graphics

What: The biggest launch since the “Millennium"

Where: http://www.matrox.com/mga/

When: Tuesday, May 14, 2002 9:00:00 AM EST

Why: It’s what you’ve been waiting for

Tell your friends.

ben6

08-May-2002, 00:46

Finally a solid date :) . Beyond that , no comment

phynicle

08-May-2002, 04:15

all i want to know is how much of the leaked information is true....because it seems all impressive

one problem about these upcoming hardware rumors is that i don't know to belive it or not...i seem to remember when cursh 12 or the now called nforce was to be released , rumor had it to be a mobile chipset with 4.2 gig bandwidth and dual ddr . Well that turned out to be half true and i suspect who ever's leaking ou information they're adding in features off the top of their heads just for the fun of it

Johnny Rotten

08-May-2002, 04:38

The unveiling of this new chip is exciting news to be sure. Still my enthusiasm for Parhelia and all things matrox is tempered by three things:

1. Time to market. Of course I cant wait to see what the 14th brings, but if this is just a paper launch or tech overview, and actual cards wont see shelves until late summer/fall my excitement is going to drop a few notches. A fall timeframe will very likely mean matrox only has a competitive product, and not a product to measure others by. I suppose Nvidia could drop the ball on NV30 or ATI could fumble the R300, but frankly I dont see that happening. And of course there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with MAtrox re-entering the 3d consumer marketplace with 'merely' a 'competitive' product, but I would SO like to see some one rock the industry. I think a Parhelia release, ohhhh, NOW could do that. =)

2. Drivers. Nuff said.

Well ok, here's a little more. Frankly while demoing Doom on Parhelia would be neat it wouldnt hold alot of stock with me. too many vendors these days tune their drivers explicitly for ids software engines. I'll wait and see and how they do over a WIDE variety of games and apps before judging.

3. Product turnover. Is matrox committed to being a 'player' or is this a one trick pony that they will now ride for the next 4 years?

Nappe1

08-May-2002, 07:50

Johnny Rotten: afaik, this is completely new core just like G200 was. my suspicion is that they use this core to build their next chip next year. Just like G200 was refreshed to G400. (and was supposedly refreshed once more to G800, but never made to final in the planned form. Just G550 came out which is heavily stripped down version.)

Ollo

08-May-2002, 14:16

Parhelion: the Sun in the middle, two smaller lights on each side. Well there you have it - your 21 incher in the middle, flanked by the two 17 inchers that used to collect dust in the garage.

Heh, first post from a long time reader. :)

Ascended Saiyan

08-May-2002, 14:48

Rookie

08-May-2002, 15:19

hmm :) I expect Matrix (http://www.time.com/time/2002/matrix/) more than matrox

Matrox have hardware Matrix? :wink:

ram

08-May-2002, 16:37

Does anyone have any idea what the T & L output might be because I have no idea on how to factor T&L ouput ? :-?
The rumoured spec's dictate of Parhelia having 4 vertex shaders & a core frequency of 350 Mhz so maybe that would be of help to anyone who can factor this.

I don't think they will hit 350 MHz.

With the DX8.1 instruction set, you need 4 instructions for a full transformation. So with 4 vertex shaders, you can do one transformation per clock.

Assuming 250 MHz, this translates to a peak vertex transformation rate of 250 MVertices/second. This normaly does not directly transfer to triangle throughput, as your triangle setup would have to keep up with that rate. So, basicly, you can't calculate the triangle throughput without knowing the performance of the triangle setup. Further, assuming longer vertex programs than a transformation, superscalarity comes into play making it even impossible to calculate the throughput without knowing the internal details of the shaders as well as the instructions used in the vertex program.

Oats

08-May-2002, 19:15

I think you guys may be expecting a bit to much from this chip, at least performance wise. I wouldn't be suprised if it offers GF4 performance...

Oats

08-May-2002, 19:25

double post

Onslaught

09-May-2002, 09:05

I have to say, that judging from the statements I've heard from Haig the technical support manager at Matrox Graphics, I think there are gonna be a few surprised faces around here (and everywhere else).

From what I've heard, the GF4 will be no competition. But the card will be very expensive of course. I'm all set to get the "super" gamers version when the cards hit the streets, so it's gonna be interesting.

I also have to say, that I'm almost just as exited about the rumored quality of 2D as I am about the rumored 3D speed of the chip/card. I can't wait! :)

PrzemKo

09-May-2002, 15:12

Well - assuming that some rumours are true, it's a pleasent surprise to see what they did in AA and xxx mapping department. Colour space is also a (little) step in right direction, IMO.

Gunhead

09-May-2002, 22:20

I don't believe the 2D quality will be a major step forward from G400. I expect the hardware video acceleration to be a leap, tho...

Gunhead

09-May-2002, 22:25

I don't believe the 2D quality will be a major step forward from G400. I expect the hardware video acceleration to be a leap, tho...

PrzemKo

09-May-2002, 22:39

I want to believe, that S3 days are well over and we don't have to be concerned about picture or video quality. However, I wonder, if this card will be that appealing to ehm... Audigy owners...

Looks like I'm talking rubbish... it's late... need to sleep.

ushac

10-May-2002, 16:33

So what are your thoughts on this recent article on The Register? Is that spec sheet for real? http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/54/25238.html

Regards / ushac

19-May-2002, 13:36

John Reynolds

19-May-2002, 14:26

Oh well it's all old news to me.......but maybe that's because I was the very first one who leaked info on Parhelia well at least the non believers should apologize I think which they didn't do yet....... :(

Anyway you can all be glad what I told is now here.......and Gf4 is not an issue it's yesterdays card and don't comes even close :D

A GF4 Ti will outperform Parhelia in a lot of games due to driver optimizations. Matrox themselves have admitted to that. In fact, unless AA and/or aniso are enabled, the GF4s will probably be faster in everything, which means reviewers who bench predominantly without those two settings enabled are going to be Parhelia in a very bad, perhaps even unfair, light.

JF_Aidan_Pryde

19-May-2002, 17:11

Driver optimisations is like human life.

A old person has a great future behind them.
A young person has a great future ahead of them.

:)

19-May-2002, 19:49

Well even if what you are saying would be true :lol: , I wonder didn't u notice that every detonater lately is slower then the version b4?

Jerry Cornelius

21-May-2002, 04:17

John Reynolds

21-May-2002, 13:04

A GF4 Ti will outperform Parhelia in a lot of games due to driver optimizations.

That's a little surprising since the Perhelia has about twice the hardware. If the AA works well on most games that's what's really going to tip the scales.

Agreed, somewhat. I probably should've qualified my earlier statement by saying that the GF4 will initially outperform Parhelia since it's up to Matrox's driver team to close the gap as much as they can. But look at 3D Gamegauge. . .no aniso whatsoever and one set of the benchmarks run at 16x12, no AA. A lot of people will probably jump all over those scores (not that I'll lose sleep if they do).

Reverend

21-May-2002, 17:37

Just wait for the initial drivers from Matrox... a lot of folks are being overly pessimistic about Matrox drivers for no real good reason IMO.

muted

21-May-2002, 18:08

seems everyone, heard from their cousin , that matrox's opengl wasn't all that at launch

and it took a while of course ..

I think matrox has to stress the fact that Everything SHOULD be enabled when they send the boards to reviewers , i don't know but if i can run a game with everything maxed out , i know i will

what kills me is i still see Quake 3 benchmarks at 640x480 in 16 bit

Nappe1

21-May-2002, 19:13

Just wait for the initial drivers from Matrox... a lot of folks are being overly pessimistic about Matrox drivers for no real good reason IMO.

without counting OGL incident, (and I relly didn't need it back then.) G400 had best drivers I have ever used. Betas, Officials, Unified, every single driver I tested worked without any faults. I even owned "legendary" VIA Apollo III chipset based (even more legendary) LuckyStar motherboard, which had big problems even without any cards installed, but Matrox worked like a charm. So, after this AIW Radeon driver hell (this works with TV, but not with SPDIF and this one does fine with SPDIF but doesn't work at all with latest games and so on...) it is easy to say that I will not miss a bit ATi's tech support and drivers.

I am pretty confident that Matrox comes up with at least decent launch time drivers and they will continue improve them all the time.

I don't have any reason to be pessimistic. :)