[PS3] Demon Souls [Archive]

Naboomagnoli

25-May-2009, 02:41

I'm 60 hours in. I'd played 50 hours after about 10 days! Well worth getting imported, let alone waiting for the US release. I've been playing as a knight, as I always tend to do with these sorts of games, and the melee combat is as good as I've played in an RPG. It's a shame so little is done with the story really (and that most of the voiceovers, while all English, are hardly skilled actors), otherwise this'd be a comfortable 10.

The enemies and environments lend to an overbearing, suffocating sense of dread and gravitas. Your character feels mortal, partly because of the quality of the animation (for example, there is a separate, subtly more cumbersome walking animation for when you are heavily equipped), partly because you drop your souls at the point where you died, and partly because your human form is precious. If you die and become a soul you only have half your hit points, and the world in which you died shifts towards a blacker tendency, meaning enemies are harder and more numerous.
Combined with a black phantom (another player looking to kill you so they can be brought back to life from the soul form) being able to invade your game at any time to hunt you down, this is probably scarier than most horrors I've played of late. Thankfully you (the human you) can invite blue phantoms into your world, other players who offer their services to help you up to the point of defeating the next boss. Once this happens, they are rewarded by being brought back to human status and are given some souls based on how you rate their performance.

As it is, I'd heartily recommend it to anyone who thinks they'd have the stomach for working their way past respawned enemies to go and reclaim the souls they dropped at the point where they died - which doesn't really feel like a chore, as refighting the enemies with that extra knowledge you picked up the previous time makes the next battle that much easier and more satisfying. It's very much like working through an 80's montage to come out meaner and tougher at the end. There's nothing tiring about a successful parry and lethal riposte either.

To think, I've barely touched the magic besides a couple of protection / weapon enhancing spells. I'm decent with a bow but I've not really gone down that route so much, and I've started doing up some of the other weapons but I've got rapiers, spears, rods, maces, axes, katana and hand-to-hand weapons which I haven't got accustomed to at all.

There's a lot of game here. Yes it's a tough and cunning bastard but it's always fair, and you'll always want to improve.

obonicus

25-May-2009, 03:09

Oh, apparently Atlus is bringing this to NA. Not sure if there'll be any differences from the Asian version.

Gradthrawn

25-May-2009, 13:45

and partly because your human form is precious.

And a curse! Particularly in online mode. Having full health and being able to summon others is a god send. But knowing that you're now a target of Black Phantoms and that your death in one area can send its tendency into black, means you might not be as adventurous as before. Exploring unknown areas seems like it might not even be worth the risk anymore. As much as I like to keep my body, sometimes I'm relieved to lose it (sometimes even purposefully :grin:).

Sigfried1977

25-May-2009, 21:21

I always tend to suicide in the Nexus. Your world tendency isn't affected that way. I only do it during actual combat levels if I want a full black world tendency shift (which makes it a lot easier to get the world to full white afterwards and nets you better enemy loot drops) The Cling ring makes fighting as a soul rather bearable actually. That's also my biggest gripe with the game: playing the game in body form is a little too risky in my opinion, especially since you probably don't carry PVP gear with you if you intend to slay regular enemies.

Anyway, I love that game. It's hella addicting and some of the stages make good old Silent Hill look and feel like a pleasant vacation trip. World 3 and 5 are simply insanely creepy. (5-3 Boss is pure awesomeness by the way)
Yesterday I got summoned by the game to be the level 3 boss. That's just an insanely cool idea if you ask me. I didn't even got to fight the player, though. I guess the Mindflayer before the boss room took care of him instead.

Yemeth

06-Aug-2009, 09:19

I have preordered the North American (Atlus) version... Hope the online play will not be laggy as I'm in Europe...

Looking forward to it, too bad I can now only choose one more game for end of year and Uncharted 2 (currently leading ;) ), The Agency, Heavy Rain et al are also waiting...

Hope I will be able to play with some of you :) .

Cheers,

Mijo

szymku

10-Aug-2009, 14:44

I'm 6 hours into the game and it's excellent... I've been killed like every 5-10 minutes but that doesn't bother me at all... World creation, gameplay and atmosphere makes this game so addictive that you want to play it again and again...

Rolf N

10-Aug-2009, 17:05

Best western RPG in a long time. Love the desolate, nearly survival-horrorish atmosphere. Reminds me of Dungeon Master but with a much more modern structure.

Combat is very rhythm/cooldown based and is balanced quite well. Stamina depletes fast while fighting, so you only have three or four light strikes before you have to retreat for a bit. You can do heavy attacks if you think you can risk a longer setup time and more exposure. Blocking redirects damage taken to stamina and at the same time almost completely halts stamina recharge, which makes blocking strategic and turtling impossible. Counterattacks/"ripostes" are risky but very effective.

They made it depend on player skill more than on stats, too. You can be 30 hours in and still get killed in four or five hits by your regular starting-area enemies. Very challenging but rewarding game.

I also love the area designs. They seem so natural, not designed for a game in any obvious way, if that makes any sense.

DrJay24

10-Aug-2009, 17:11

I dread this game being to hard for me I hope they have a wimp choice in the NA release.

szymku

10-Aug-2009, 18:01

This game is all about being hard.... Every time you die, you are gaining knowlege about enemies, enviroment etc and next time you are doing better Theres one thing you have to rememeber while playing - death means losing all the souls which are necessary to develop your character and buy new weapons, therefore retreat is always an option

I.S.T.

10-Aug-2009, 20:30

Gradthrawn

10-Aug-2009, 20:32

Western? It was developed by From Software!

I thought that was odd to, but I'm guessing he's referring to the play style and not the country of origin.

Rolf N

10-Aug-2009, 23:42

I thought that was odd to, but I'm guessing he's referring to the play style and not the country of origin.Yes. It's a genre.

patsu

11-Sep-2009, 01:51

I am evaluating my game purchases this fall.

I saw GAF recommending this game to new PS3 owners (It's the first on the list). Since From Software developed "3D Dot Heroes", I wanted to buy their stuff to encourage someone to bring "3D Dot Heroes" to US too.

After checking out reviews like this:
http://www.rpgfan.com/reviews/Demons_Souls/index.html

... What really sets the game apart from most others, however, is its staggering difficulty. Was Persona a bit tricky for you? Did Ninja Gaiden 2 seem cheap and unfair? You ain't seen nothing yet. You could take Metallica, Iron Maiden, and Megadeth, cram them all together in a possessed blender, and the result would not be as brutal as Demon's Souls.

I'll put it simply: You will die. A lot. Then, you will die some more. Every time you die, all of the souls you gathered will be lost in a bloodstain at the point of your death. If you die again before you make it back to that point, they are lost forever. Enemies can kill you in just a few hits, and they will often gang up on you, sneak up and jump you from behind, or snipe you with arrows and firebombs. Your character is not exactly Ryu Hayabusa either. If you take a typical hack-and-slash approach to combat, you will die hilariously fast. Every dash, every evasive move, every swing of your sword takes stamina, which needs time to recover. Block for too long and your guard will be shattered, at which point you will likely get impaled and killed. When you die in human form, you come back as a spirit with only half of your max HP. Dying in a game normally evidences that something was too difficult for you, and this game responds by making things MORE difficult. All saving is done automatically by the game, and portals back to the nexus world (the game's safe zone and hub for stat boosting and shopping) are few and far between. The game auto saves when you die, and it does it fast too. I tried pulling the plug on my PS3 right after getting shanked by a zombie, and it STILL saved. Oh, and every time you die, all the enemies respawn.

It REALLY sounds like I should call the police for back up when I play this game.

Have the people who posted above finished the game ?

Is the game save shareable >:-P ?

Rolf N

11-Sep-2009, 09:12

The game save can't be copied, it's one of a handful I've lost in my fat=>slim exchange.

It's true that the game is challenging, but the death mechanic in the game makes "dying over and over" not as bad as it sounds. When you die, you restart at the entrance to the current section with your equipment and stats, save for spare experience*, and you can recover that by clicking your bloodstain, which is left at the place of your death. If you do that, you've lost nothing. You probably gained something actually, because you've killed stuff on the way twice now.

Every character can learn and be everything eventually, but starting difficulty depends greatly on the class you pick. As I've had to restart since getting the slim, I took the popular advice and picked the "royal" class. It's easy! You start with a powerful ranged attack spell and a ring that gradually recharges mana. You can avoid most melee combat that way, and live a long, prosperous life :)

*"souls" gained by killing enemies are used both as a currency and as points to invest in level-ups; you can only level up while you're in the Nexus (sort of your home base). Spare experience is your wallet, anything you haven't already spent.

szymku

11-Sep-2009, 09:40

Some of the experience you are gathering is in "solid" form (soul stones items) so you are keeping them even when you die...
About the difficulty - the game is difficult in a way first computer RPG's were... In some way it remind me of playing Dungeon Master or Eye of the beholder, where in the beginning difficulty level was simply awful, but after gaining some experience, collecting better weapons and armours everything went back to normal

Overall the game is really good. Good graphics, great gameplay and unique atmosphere...

I would rate it 9 out of 10

patsu

11-Sep-2009, 15:52

where in the beginning difficulty level was simply awful, but after gaining some experience, collecting better weapons and armours everything went back to normal

Dang, that's why I want to use existing game saves to help. Thanks Rolf for responding. What exactly does Royal class do ?

I like the part where people say you'll die repeatedly but the enemies are not "cheap". Also like the co-op idea very much.

Particularly the online co-op is executed in an original if flawed way. Interaction with other players is usually passive. You will see ghost-like shadows of other players who are in your current stage. You can also read and leave messages on the ground. Sometimes these are very helpful, like "watch out on your left!" If someone gives a thumbs-up to your message, you get your health back, so be generous and praise others regularly. You will also see bloodstains, which show where other players have died. Touch the stain and a silhouette will actually show that player's death. This may not be a good way to inspire confidence though; many times the silhouette mime shows the player walk into the next room and just fall over dead. "Hmm, maybe I shouldn't go that way..." I would think to myself.

You can summon other players into your game to help clear stages and bosses if you have a physical body. If you are in soul form, you can be summoned into other games, and if you manage to help someone defeat a boss, you get your body back. There is also a fantastic PvP system where you can invade other worlds, stalk another player as a black phantom, and then murder them to take their body and get your own physical form back. Let me tell you, it is nerve-racking when someone invades your game because if they are any good, they'll come after you when you least expect it. If it freaks you out too much, the game is playable offline, though without other players' messages, bloodstains, and co-op for bosses, the difficulty only goes up.

I have been shying away from horror games because I don't like limited movements and control schemes. Do you have any more advices for me. I can get good at a game if I invest the time, but most of the time I just take the easy way out when gaming.

I usually don't read reviews but this one managed to pull me in. Pretty good writing... whoever he is. ^_^

DrJay24

11-Sep-2009, 16:33

I really want to try this game, but I don't want to throw my controller and give up. I have to summon the courage!

patsu

11-Sep-2009, 16:36

:lol: I'm cooking up a pot of extra strength courage with Mandrake Roots and a stick of sh*t now. Will let you know if it works.

Yemeth

11-Sep-2009, 20:28

What exactly does Royal class do ?

http://demonssouls.wikidot.com/royal

http://demonssouls.wikidot.com/

Can't wait that my preorder (deluxe version) arrives...

Rolf N

12-Sep-2009, 02:25

Starting as the "royal" class gives you the fragrant ring as starting equipment so you can regenerate mana. It also gives you passable spell-casting stats and the soul arrow spell, which is a ranged attack that can one-shot most enemies in the early stages of the game.

Every class can earn the spell. Every class can find (or buy) a fragrant ring eventually and achieve (and surpass) the royal's stats. Classes in Demon's Souls are just labels for starting setups. Every character can equip everything and can cast every spell. You just have to spend the points to get there.

patsu

12-Sep-2009, 02:37

I watched quite a few Demon's Soul boss fights on Youtube. There are issues here and there (like path finding), but I can see why it's heart pounding. I am attracted to the fighting style (compared to say... Devil May Cry type of fast-paced action). I can see the player retreating and pacing the battle deliberately (Got to keep your cool !).

I'll probably spend hours if not days trying not to make/repeat any mistake.

Between Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2 and this, I prefer the more serious/sober treatment here.

May be a solution for me is to seek help from the bachelor gamers around here. They can play the extra difficult parts for me while I watch :-P

EDIT:
I re-read the entire thread and found this comment:

Yesterday I got summoned by the game to be the level 3 boss. That's just an insanely cool idea if you ask me. I didn't even got to fight the player, though. I guess the Mindflayer before the boss room took care of him instead.

When you play in online mode, the boss can be one of the players ? (What the... did I understand Sigfried1977 correctly ?)

Rolf N

12-Sep-2009, 02:56

I can see the player retreating and pacing the battle deliberately (Got to keep your cool !).It's not all stylistic choice. The game enforces that behaviour with its stamina mechanic. Attacking or rolling takes a chunk of stamina each time. Blocking (nearly) halts your stamina recharge. Running out of stamina makes you vulnerable, you take damage even if you block and you stagger.

You have to pace your attacks. Two or three hits is probably all you can do before you have to get out of range again to recharge stamina. But if you know when to drop your block, you get your stamina back faster and may be able to squeeze in a fourth strike.

Then there's a counter mechanic where you can deflect an attack with a well-timed shield swipe and set yourself up for a powerful retaliation ("riposte").

Or you can do heavy strikes, which cosume a little more stamina but do proportionally more damage (and quicker) than normal strikes.

If you're very sure your enemy won't land a hit, you can toggle two-handed mode for any weapon on the fly, forfeit your ability to block properly, but do more damage with each swing.

The combat system is more of a rhythm/pattern recognition thing and generally rewards taking risks at the right time. It's not about learning combo #49 which has just the right range for enemy #92.

I still like it.

patsu

12-Sep-2009, 05:52

The reviews and fans said the game balances the combat mechanics really well (convincing and skill-based).

I am thinking the new controller may make this game more accessible and yet retain its flavor. The archery demo seems to fit the combat really well. The dev will need to test it out though.

EDIT:
The more I think about it, the more I think Sony should get From Software to tailor this game for the new controller. It'd be a great showcase together with the existing co-op mechanism.

patsu

13-Sep-2009, 17:09

Demon's Souls dev interview:
http://www.siliconera.com/2009/07/10/demons-souls-director-didnt-think-demons-souls-was-that-hard/

How come you decided to have these Twitter and paste style messages? Why didn’t you let people freely write messages?

First, it was easier to implement since we didn’t need to implement a profanity filter. If we made a freeform messaging system it would turn it into a large chat, which detracts from the feel of the world.

About PvP...

What do you think about the helpful Black Phantoms that altruistically help other players?

System-wise we know you can do it. You can invade other people’s worlds as a black phantom and help them out. We left that in the hands of the players to decide their own path. Overall, it worked out in the game’s benefit.

But, there are sneaky players that come in as Black Phantoms. At first, they seem like they’re helping out, but later they may backstab you.

Something a little spoilerific:

This looks like a mini-boss fight with "Black Phantom Satsuki". I found this video after wading through many. In this case, the black phantom seems to be an NPC. The player switches weapon mid-way. I thought this video is a good example to show how the new controller can be used in Demons' Souls. It's rather similar to the tech demo.

Tiynx2W4P1k

Rolf N

13-Sep-2009, 17:45

It's an NPC black phantom that spawns as part of a world-tendency event.

Btw if you look top left, the green bar is stamina. You can see how the player carefully manages it until near the very end of the fight where he/she goes full risk and depletes it with the final blow.

Sigfried1977

13-Sep-2009, 18:52

When you play in online mode, the boss can be one of the players ? (What the... did I understand Sigfried1977 correctly ?)

You did. It's only the final boss of the third stage, though. He summons other players to fight against you. If you are plaing offline an A.I. will do the job.

If you are summoned as that particular boss and defeat the player you can earn a pretty good (and rather ridiculous looking) piece of head gear.

By the way, I though the fight against BP Satsuki was really, really tough.

patsu

14-Sep-2009, 22:51

I pre-ordered the deluxe edition. Will post impressions once the people here give it a try.

We are afraid of the game but decided to order anyway:

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(9 minute boring player stalking followed by less than 1 minute of tragic PvP. Skip to 9:00 if you only want to see the actual assassination).

qfqVMCYe9D4
(You're supposed to rush the spawn point when a Black Phantom invades your world. Here's another type of PvP encounter ;-))

EDIT: Actually, the second encounter could be a Black Phantom NPC.

Sigfried1977

15-Sep-2009, 03:59

Second video is not PvP. It's just a player (in soul form - there's no PvP in soul form thank god) being attacked by black phantom version (those appear when the world hits black tendency) of a regular enemy in World 3-2.

Also don't worry too much: once you get past the excruciating first couple of hours the game becomes much more managable. Just don't be reckless, even if you know what you are doing.

patsu

16-Sep-2009, 00:20

Yeah, I am not familiar with the game set up yet.

Am rather happy to find the official blog from GAF. The most recent one (#5) talks about its difficulty: http://www.atlus.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4265

The older ones are:
#1 Introduction: http://www.atlus.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3795
#2 Basics: http://www.atlus.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3966
#3 Online Play: http://www.atlus.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4021
#4 World Tendency: http://www.atlus.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4118

I ordered the deluxe edition because of the strategy guide. I figured I'd need it for this game.

Btw, Yemeth and I agreed to back each other up when the game is released. My gut feel is our timezone difference would probably prevent us from gaming for a long time. We'll see. I'll definitely summon Blue Phantoms to help me tackle pesky Black Phantoms.

K.I.L.E.R

16-Sep-2009, 09:21

The game is only difficult for the first 5-10 hours of play, regardless of how far you are in the game. You get used to it all. I installed a new HDD in my PS3, lost my character of 40 hours and had to start again, instead of a female Barbarian, I have picked a female Royal and the game is as easy as pie, despite being used to using humongous swords. Haven't died once in my new game.

Yemeth

16-Sep-2009, 20:18

patsu, looking forward to play with you, we'll see about the timezone difference...

BTW, currently I have to fight much not to look at youtube videos, guides etc., so that I have some surprises left (altough I have boomarked one, if it gets too frustrating at the beginning http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qG018Yg4kOM :smile: ).

Cheers...

patsu

16-Sep-2009, 20:34

Heh, I am watching lot's of Demon's Souls youtube videos too.

Thanks for posting that beginner's guide. It's probably a life saver.
[rush off to research Cling Ring]

I'm actually more excited by this purchase than the other games. :)

Rolf N

17-Sep-2009, 00:17

The cling ring is overrated. True heroes can be effective at straight halved HP ;)

My new char is back up to level 40ish now. I'd say I'm about as far as I was before I lost my save, +- a few minor events. I'm relying a lot on offensive spells now, where in my previous game I'd only use the bow at range. The thing is, some enemies are quite susceptible to magic damage. There are certain enemies that still take 25+ arrows, even with my decently upgraded bow, but can be offed with three hits of a cheap fire spell. Knowing that, and being able to exploit it anytime, thanks to the fragrant ring, takes some of the cold fear out of the game :)

When I think about how many times I died before, trying to melee my way through the tower of Latria ... sheesh!

patsu

17-Sep-2009, 19:26

The cling ring is overrated. True heroes can be effective at straight halved HP ;)

Whelp, I am not a hero. I need everything I can get to stay alive. :oops:

My new char is back up to level 40ish now. I'd say I'm about as far as I was before I lost my save, +- a few minor events. I'm relying a lot on offensive spells now, where in my previous game I'd only use the bow at range. The thing is, some enemies are quite susceptible to magic damage. There are certain enemies that still take 25+ arrows, even with my decently upgraded bow, but can be offed with three hits of a cheap fire spell. Knowing that, and being able to exploit it anytime, thanks to the fragrant ring, takes some of the cold fear out of the game :)

When I think about how many times I died before, trying to melee my way through the tower of Latria ... sheesh!

Someday I'll be as strong as you, but for now... I'll beg. Can you give items to another player ? :-P

Gamasutra has a new article on Demon's Souls:
http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=25238

I haven't read it yet. Saving it for end of day.

EDIT: Finished reading the article last night, it's another positive review in defense of the difficulty. I think I should be alright.

Sigfried1977

20-Sep-2009, 23:35

Nice article, but the guy who posted his criticisms in the comments is spot-on as well. There are some weird design choices to be found in the game like the shifting world tendency and the NPC who slays other NPCs once you rescue him. That guy will even kill the dude who stores your loot for you, and if that happens countless hours of grinding will have been for naught.

patsu

20-Sep-2009, 23:49

Sigfried, how do I prevent this from happening to me ?

Another of those errors is that unique souls dropped by defeated bosses can easily be wasted by consuming them. (Trading them for items or spells being the far better option.) Note that the game constantly auto-saves any status changes, there is no way of going back after events like these.

Can I keep the bosses' souls in a different stash until I find a good deal to trade them, or must I trade them right away ?

Also for the NPC-killing-NPC, is it tied to the story at all (but the game forgot to tell you) or just a random event ? Please don't reveal any storyline, just a short answer will do.

I actually like it when players can't figure out the World Tendency rules. It would keep me guessing and hence, fearing for its macro effects.

Sigfried1977

21-Sep-2009, 00:28

Regarding the NPC-killer:
The guy is an assassin and is located in 3-2 (Tower of Latria). He's wearing the heaviest regular set of armor in the game and is locked in a cage, so you'll know it's him when you get there. If you just follow the main path through the stage you won't come across him anyway. If you want his armor, just set him free and kill him immediately. Otherwise he'll end up in the Nexus where he'll start killing people (not right away, though. You can kill him in the Nexus if you want to)

It's really only a problem if you don't know about the issue. There are quite a few people you can rescue in the game actually, but it's never mandatory and usually requires some fiddling around with the world tendency as well. Not going to happen on accident.

As for the Boss souls: I think you can give them to Stockpile Thomas in the Nexus, but I'm not sure. He carries your regular soul stones as well, though, so you might still confuse one with the other if you don't pay attention. Again, this is only an issue if you don't know about it. The boss soul stones have the boss name in the description, so just check carefully before you consume something. I think his issue wasn't about accidently consumeing the stones anyway, but again about not knowing that they actually have a bigger purpose later in the game. (unlocking magic, enabling the black smith to create better weapons etc.)

patsu

21-Sep-2009, 00:41

@_@ Might want to spoiler tag your reply regarding the NPC killing. I can see some people may want to stay blind even if it's bad for them.

Sigfried1977

21-Sep-2009, 00:45

Is it really a spoiler, though? The guy is basically a big nuisance with no relevance to the story. He just screws you over if you let him, and you see him pop up on pictures during loading times every once in a while as well.

patsu

21-Sep-2009, 00:53

I don't know... some gamers are masochists in that sense. :-P

Thanks for helping me out though. ^_^

Rolf N

21-Sep-2009, 17:34

The boss souls are just consumable items with zero weight. You can keep them in your inventory forever or stash them, doesn't make much of a difference. You're not forced to decide what to do with them.

You'll notice that there are trophies for learning every magic spell, learning every miracle and for getting every rare weapon. Many of these require you to hand over specific boss demon souls, but if you used it to forge a weapon, you of course can't use it to learn its associated spell anymore. I think thus it'll take at least three, maybe four full game cycles to get all the spells, miracles and weapons, and in turn the associated trophies.

Sigfried1977

21-Sep-2009, 21:38

^And good luck on farming that darned Pure Bladestone.

patsu

23-Sep-2009, 21:05

The official blog explains the Demon Soul's world to newbies:
http://blog.us.playstation.com/2009/09/demon’s-souls-ps3-video-walkthrough-part-two/

patsu

25-Sep-2009, 23:10

First ever hard core RPG informercial:

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I can't believe someone did this. Who is this guy ?

djskribbles

26-Sep-2009, 02:15

That's a good way of taking the plastic wrap off... I always pick at the seamed part at the top or bottom. :lol:

Sorry for going OT.

Yemeth

26-Sep-2009, 09:18

I can't believe someone did this. Who is this guy ?

From the voice, I would say it is Aram Jabbari (Atlus PR)...

BTW, I first did not recognize his voice and I thought "Jeez, this one is taking it way too far with the caressing et al!". After I thought this is a PR person "Jeez, this one is not taking it far enough, I mean, you´re PR, think of something better :D".

Seriously, looks nice, I can´t remember the last time I was so pumped up for a game, I think it was AvP for the PC. If I will have the same fun, it will be more than worth the wait (and the difficulty, I played through AvP directors cut before the savegame patch, so if it´s so good it will be beaten).

BTW, does anybody of the import pros think they will "fix" some farming points (making it harder to farm) and things like that?

Anyway, thanks for the video and the comments...

Sigfried1977

26-Sep-2009, 16:23

The CE seems nice. They actually included something worthwhile for a change (I really don't know what I'm supposed to do with my Fallout 3 Wobblehead or my hidous Street Fighter IV figurines). I also think that the original cover art is a lot better. Sucks that you still have to parttake in some company's pre order bs plan if you want the soundtrack, though.

obonicus

26-Sep-2009, 17:05

I can't believe someone did this. Who is this guy ?

He's the PR manager, Atlus USA PR has a history of sarcasm.

http://www.siliconera.com/2008/12/05/atlus-has-a-sense-of-humor-about-esrb-leaks/

patsu

26-Sep-2009, 17:53

Ok, I heard him announced his name and title at the beginning of the video this time.
Must be a fun guy to drink with. ^_^

BTW, I first did not recognize his voice and I thought "Jeez, this one is taking it way too far with the caressing et al!". After I thought this is a PR person "Jeez, this one is not taking it far enough, I mean, you´re PR, think of something better ". :D

:lol: It's different and unexpected alright. I hope people don't smell their games like he did. Who knows what else happened behind the scene. I think used game sales will take a hit after this video. :-P

“Our experiment has been a rousing success,” said Aram Jabbari, Manager of PR and Sales, beaming. “Allowing information about our upcoming titles to be silently posted on ESRB’s website has been a triumph, and we’ve decided to abandon all direct, overt disclosures of our future games in favor of quietly allowing the posting of new titles onto ESRB.org. Every other publisher puts their press releases out there in the same distribution channel, and sometimes the news gets overlooked. By sneaking all future game announcements onto the ESRB website for just a handful of passionate editors to find, we distance ourselves from industry conventions.”

Heh, so the "new game smell" video is yet another Jabbari(TM) experiment.

The CE seems nice. They actually included something worthwhile for a change (I really don't know what I'm supposed to do with my Fallout 3 Wobblehead or my hidous Street Fighter IV figurines). I also think that the original cover art is a lot better. Sucks that you still have to parttake in some company's pre order bs plan if you want the soundtrack, though.

I ordered the Deluxe edition for the guide. Is the sound track any good ?

Yemeth

27-Sep-2009, 12:38

Ok, I heard him announced his name and title at the beginning of the video this time.
Must be a fun guy to drink with. ^_^

I ordered the Deluxe edition for the guide. Is the sound track any good ?

I am really getting old, I have not heard the name, was multitasking and glancing at the video at the same time. I'm glad they used the original cover for the slipcase as, for me, it perfectly captures everything I have heard from the game so far! The new cover does not appeal to me at all...

I have only heard the soundtrack in the clips and the trailer, but the chorus track alone (from the trailer) is worth for ripping the CD to the PC and copying it to my mobile phone :) .

Cheers...

Sigfried1977

27-Sep-2009, 19:21

I ordered the Deluxe edition for the guide. Is the sound track any good ?

There's hardly any music in the game actually. There's music in the Nexus and during boss fights and that's it. No tune struck me as particularly memorable, though. It's fitting and enhances the mood, but it's nothing I'd listen to outside of the context of the game (but I'm quite picky when it comes to my game music)

betan

28-Sep-2009, 01:34

I'm very conflicted about this one. All the impressions and reviews are hugely positive, and online is really intriguing to say the least, but the inherit trial and error aspect is a big concern for me.

In fact, I fail to see how making a hard game that requires one to "levelup" real-life skills instead of a couple of numbers on screen is any innovation.

Anyway, can you join a friend's game as opposed to random strangers'?

Rolf N

28-Sep-2009, 15:32

I'm very conflicted about this one. All the impressions and reviews are hugely positive, and online is really intriguing to say the least, but the inherit trial and error aspect is a big concern for me.I don't know what you mean by trial and error. The hub structure, where you (have to) choose which area to tackle next? It's a normal risk/reward thing. You venture into an area "too far", encounter an enemy you can't handle and die. Okay, that happens. But:
a)you keep any loot you found (among them most likely a few consumable souls, which can be converted into "XP" on the spot)
b)if you can make it back to the place of your death (or actually a few steps less, so you can realistically avoid whatever killed you before), you can recover your bloodstain, and in effect all the "XP" you "lost" before

You don't think you can go far enough into the level again to recover your bloodstain? Fine, save it for later. You only lost "XP" on hand. Your levels and stats and loot are still intact.

In fact, I fail to see how making a hard game that requires one to "levelup" real-life skills instead of a couple of numbers on screen is any innovation.It's an action RPG. You have to learn the combat system to be effective, but stats and equipment still affect your damage output, how well you absorb, block and evade damage, and how long you can make your combos. Both sides matter, like they would in any action RPG.
Anyway, can you join a friend's game as opposed to random strangers'?I've heard something about placing your co-op "marker" in a really out-of-place spot and make arrangements that way. But no, there's no straightforward way to invite a specific person into your game.

Sigfried1977

28-Sep-2009, 20:19

In fact, I fail to see how making a hard game that requires one to "levelup" real-life skills instead of a couple of numbers on screen is any innovation.

I don't think anyone is really labeling it as innovation. On the contrary, it's a deliberately old-school game design approach that makes you work for your rewards instead of just handing them out without any resistance worth mentioning. Nothing new, but kinda refreshing regardless.

patsu

28-Sep-2009, 20:38

The co-op is innovative though.

Sigfried1977

28-Sep-2009, 20:50

The overall on-line integration maybe. The co-op is mostly just very restricted.

patsu

28-Sep-2009, 21:09

*nod* *nod*

I meant to say:
* The Black and Blue Phantom interaction
* The player-controlled level 3 boss
* The messages, message ratings, blood stains and death scenes left by other players
... change game play

After reading the reviews, I think they are trying to tell me despite these online interactions, the game will still make me feel lonely and helpless at the beginning. ^_^

Sigfried1977

28-Sep-2009, 21:18

You even feel kinda lonely when you have a blue Phantom with you. That's just how DS rolls.

patsu

30-Sep-2009, 23:08

Just because I saw Mr. Jabbari's earnest attempt to promote Demon's Souls using alternate (but dubious) approach... ;)

Here's something to acknowledge and nudge him back to more mainstream marketing:
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/gaming/2009/09/30/Multiplayer-Chat

It's a podcast where he talks about the game. I have not listened yet. Got it from GAF (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=17829647&postcount=7028). His segment is supposed to start at 32 minute.

Yemeth

03-Oct-2009, 07:28

Here's something to acknowledge and nudge him back to more mainstream marketing:
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/gaming/2009/09/30/Multiplayer-Chat

Hello, patsu, thanks for posting it. The interview was horrible, IMO. I understand that most of these podcasts are done by amateurs, but when you have an interview at least learn how to pronounce the third word (or even get the right word?) you utter about the game "Kingdom of Bolaria" ;) .

Love the humor of Mr. Jabbari, first PR person where I thought "hey, maybe he really thinks what he is saying", and that means something.

Anyway, what really bugs me is that after the release it takes about two weeks to get the game to me from Canada :cry: . Hopefully it will not get stuck in the customs or even get lost, so it could get worse (see, already preparing my mindset for Demon's Souls). :D

Cheers...

Rolf N

03-Oct-2009, 13:40

I was thinking about the "trial and error" criticism a bit more and still don't quite understand where it comes from, but I may have found a better explanation of the structure.

It's a checkpoint system. If you die all (or most) of the enemies reset and you start at the last checkpoint. There's relatively big spacing between checkpoints (only after boss fights, 3 to 5 per world), true. Usually you'd criticize that, but it's not that simple really.

Major differences to a traditional checkpoint system:
1)Within each level there are shortcuts. You first go the long way around the door, pull a lever, the door opens. Now it stays open forever. Shortcuts don't reset on death.
2)Not all enemies reset on death. Some of the toughest black phantoms are one-offs. You beat them once, they won't block your path again.
3)Inventory doesn't reset. Loot you picked up is gone from the world but stays in your inventory. Thus if you explored a side area once and grabbed everything there is to find, you won't have to do it again.
4)Already said, but you recover what you've lost if you can reach your previous point of failure. You can go back to the Nexus and restock/offload loot first if you need to.

You don't have to "redo everything" to anywhere near the same degree as a traditional checkpoint system.

1 and 4 IMO mitigate the big checkpoint spacing as a criticism. As you unravel the level's shortcuts, find keys, activate elevators, lower bridges etc, your trips get faster. Recovering your bloodstain takes the punishment out of previous deaths and instead rewards you for careful play.

betan

03-Oct-2009, 15:06

Thanks for the info Rolf. I was using the term "trial and error" loosely as in "you try and fail a lot until you find the right way of doing things".

patsu

03-Oct-2009, 17:14

Hello, patsu, thanks for posting it. The interview was horrible, IMO. I understand that most of these podcasts are done by amateurs, but when you have an interview at least learn how to pronounce the third word (or even get the right word?) you utter about the game "Kingdom of Bolaria" ;) .

Love the humor of Mr. Jabbari, first PR person where I thought "hey, maybe he really thinks what he is saying", and that means something.

Anyway, what really bugs me is that after the release it takes about two weeks to get the game to me from Canada :cry: . Hopefully it will not get stuck in the customs or even get lost, so it could get worse (see, already preparing my mindset for Demon's Souls). :D

Cheers...

Listened to the podcast over Sunday breakfast. ^_^

The podcast host is ok (He did say "Bolaria" instead of "Boletaria"). He played the game enough to know what to ask. That's very important for me as a listener.

Am very glad to hear that the control scheme is good. Would be a nightmare to manage stamina and fight controls at the same time.

Aram also went through the changes Atlus made to port the game over: Gameplay untouched, just bug fixes and localization. Yes. we want the same exact experience the others have gone through (Hoo-ah !)

He also said the Armor Core team worked on Demon's Souls. I am not sure if he was referring to the entire company, From Software, or the developer team themselves. I played the first Armor Core on PS2, they have certainly matured over the years.

A large part of the podcast talks about the difficulty. He made an effort to help people understand the game mechanics. I think he should also talk about the experience: The feeling of dread and solitude in this game. It's what attracted me in the first place (The reward will be immensely gratifying). Some of the reviews conveyed this point rather well.

Also, may be I missed it, Aram forgot to mention a URL for listeners to go to.

patsu

07-Oct-2009, 02:02

I have the game. Took a whiff of it as I walked out of Gamestop. ^_^

I will take a quick swipe at something (anything !) in Boletaria tomorrow. Have to wait until Thursday evening to play for real.

patsu

08-Oct-2009, 02:51

First impression took me way back to my first dungeon crawl (Lord British, amber monitor and monotonic audio :)). This is like the RPG I made up in my mind as I played those blocky first gen games. It's uncanny to see someone unveiled it slowly in front of my eyes. ^_^

I played with headphone so I don't hear any outside noise at all. It feels authentic, and has just the right atmosphere. I <3 the desolate environment, the British accents, and the no-frills quests.

Combat control is smooth and easy. R3 targeting needs some pre-planning and practices. Need to play a few more rounds to see if I can switch target easily. Every small enemy is worthy and fun because the combat feels natural and impactful.

Yeah... I died. The regular combats are not difficult (so far), but some of the bosses may be tough or impossible. e.g., The tutorial boss killed me in one hit. It's not even a direct blow. I couldn't land any hit close to him at all. Am keen to tackle him again with more advanced weapons and character attributes.

Hopefully the rest of the game doesn't disappoint. I'm still somewhere in 1-1.

EDIT: I am extremely glad someone could do an intense game without infinite respawn or awkward controls.

Yemeth, thanks for all those messages. I think you will like the game.

patsu

08-Oct-2009, 17:05

http://demonssouls.wikidot.com/pvp

Occasionally you may encounter a Good Black Phantom. They know that some players may have problems with the game so they go an extra mile to help. Enemies don't react to Black Phantom, so as a Black Phantom you basically can just kill all the enemies without worries that you will get killed.
All souls dropped by enemies will be given to the host. Also, near the end, the Good Black Phantom will let the host kill them to get a Whiter World Tendency.

and in GAF: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=17943026&postcount=9213

:lol: :lol: :lol: HOLY CRAP I CANT BELIEVE WHAT JUST HAPPENED!

I was on the Old Monk boss and apparently the boss is another player. Well I had my unlucky share and met someone who looked RIDICULOUS, probably beat the game 20 times or something... this is, I knew I'd die so I just ran around in circles. He just stood there though, he did a /sigh or something then /point /comeon or whatever, he pretty much told me that I could kill him AND SO I DID :lol Thanks whoever!

;-)

DrJay24

08-Oct-2009, 17:50

I wish this game came out a month ago, it's too close to UC2 and R&C, there is no time for an epic RPG. I think I will try to pick it up in Dec, it's sounds great.

patsu

08-Oct-2009, 18:34

If you like RPG, yes... I think it's great. I don't have a lot of time to play, and I dislike grinding. Something draws me to the game though. Will see how far I can go.

If you're going to buy it late, might want to track the stock level once in a while. Not sure if Atlus bring in enough copies to last until December given the shopping season.

Rolf N

09-Oct-2009, 16:35

Nice to hear you like it patsu. I think if you play it the game is actually quite easy to get, but I still find it difficult to describe to someone else how it works and what makes it special.

Your Ultima (?) reference is interesting. I'm more thinking Dungeon Master personally. Demon's Souls has this same feeling of dread and being lost in a hostile environment. As in you're not exploring some ruin to optionally trick out your attire, but you push onward to stay alive.
I've been way deep into a few games over the years, but nothing before Demon's Souls has replicated that same atmosphere nearly as well.

patsu

09-Oct-2009, 20:15

Have question. Is there a way to get Stockpile Thomas to stash my souls ? I could get him to store Unnamed Soldiers' and Unnamed Heroes' Souls. I could not find a way to deposit regular souls.

I got the Cling Ring. The guy on the top floor guarding the fog entrance is interesting coz he replenished his health automatically. I could beat him sometimes with Rapier and Soul Arrows. Further down, there is another knight equipped with a lance. I got pwned by him. Was able to trick him so that he fell down the cliff. Should I go into the fog or proceed to the area behind the lancer ?

Yemeth

09-Oct-2009, 20:29

Thanks for your impressions, patsu (and all the others so far, of course)!

Eases my waiting time a bit :) .

I read on the Atlus forum that with a new patch (1.04?) the start is much easier as the world tendency is pure white?! Can anyone here confirm this?

Thanks to all and enjoy...

patsu

09-Oct-2009, 20:39

Actually I like it the way it is. I heard having a Full White Tendency will make the dragons go away (or not show up). But I want to see some big monsters even if all I could do is run away. This is much much better than fighting a giant rodent in Diablo or other RPG games when you're starting out. ^_^

DrJay24

09-Oct-2009, 20:41

Does anyone know if the import version differs from the NA version for things like online and trophies?

szymku

09-Oct-2009, 20:42

Should I go into the fog or proceed to the area behind the lancer ?

Enter the fog.... It's new area and you should explore it to find new items and shortcut to the begining of the stage... Knight with lance can wait until you gain some experience and better equipment

Does anyone know if the import version differs from the NA version for things like online and trophies?
I've read somewhere that NA version have new trophies and separate servers for online experience

patsu

09-Oct-2009, 21:05

Thanks ! What about the Stockpile question ^_^ ?

I am too early to find the Black Maiden to upgrade myself yet (I think).

EDIT: Drjay24, why would you want to import when the game is here ?

DrJay24

09-Oct-2009, 21:32

I see people trying to dump there import versions, I thought they just wanted the SE version and music disc, maybe they just want the new game version.

Sigfried1977

09-Oct-2009, 21:41

Thanks ! What about the Stockpile question ^_^ ?

I am too early to find the Black Maiden to upgrade myself yet (I think).

EDIT: Drjay24, why would you want to import when the game is here ?

You can't deposit your regular souls. That's the whole point. If you lose them they are gone for good. No safety net I'm afraid. (I lost 1.5 million souls once)

You also have to beat the 1-1 boss before you can start leveling.

patsu

09-Oct-2009, 22:16

*Grumble* *grumble* alright alright, so the game wants me to risk all the collected souls, and to bang hard on my own skills/judgement. I'll go slaughter the fog guarding dude and whatever lies behind him tonight. I should be fine I think. I know the 1-1 boss is weak against fire

Antan

10-Oct-2009, 00:47

Still waiting for this to land, but can you lucky peeps tell me which character class will be best to go with?

patsu

10-Oct-2009, 01:31

As they mentioned above, Royal is the easiest class to start with because:
* Has MP regen ring
* Has ranged attack
* Starts with soul level 1 (Others may start as high as Soul level 6/7 according to the guide). So it's easier to level up at the beginning. I think the stats points are the same as everyone else (just distributed differently)

EDIT: Okay, wish me luck. I'm going back into the Nexus now. My character name is Howl in case you got summoned into my world accidentally (as level 3 boss :-P). I named it so because I expect to cry while playing the game.

Antan

10-Oct-2009, 02:10

patsu

10-Oct-2009, 04:09

Don't thank me. Sigfried, Yemeth, RolfN and others shared valuable info.

If you summoned me, I may die earlier than you. :lol: But I guess that's useful too.

I completed 1-1. It's easy. I died mostly because I tried to rush through. GAF says to retrieve the Falcion in early 4.1. So that's what I'm going to try next.

Also remember to repair your weapon. I fought half-way through 1-1 and my Rapier broke. Had to run a fair way back to a merchant to buy a make-shift club.

Finally, beware of *$%&$*(1! messages left by jerks. I died once because my hands were too quick to believe one of the messages. Triggered a booby trap. Lost my 3000 souls there since I died again on the way to retrieve it. The sight of 2 dragons sun bathing outside the castle is magnificent ! I could see plenty of smoking bodies and shiny treasures around them. I didn't dare to walk near the twin dragons though.

I wish Lair was like that.

EDIT:
Finally finally, check the video Yemeth posted. Get the Thief Ring.

About Ostrava:

You have to save Ostrava *everytime* you replay 1-1. If you ignored him like I did, he'd die by the enemies' hands eventually. Then he'd leave behind an important key. You need to pick it up. If he was still alive, he would appear in subsequent levels to help you fight. :( You'd still get the key later in the game even if you kept him alive in 1-1.

oramay

10-Oct-2009, 04:17

... I know the 1-1 boss is weak against fire

Does this kind of thing need a spoiler tag? Hints like this are lying everywhere in the game if connected online. :wink:

For the game itself, I recently borrowed the Asian version to play. Given the way death works, I usually try to spend the souls whenever I have the chance to reduce risk. I also have guides and maps downloaded from the web ready by my side when I play to read about potential dangers. Still, seeing white ghost image of other players come into view can give me a scare, especially when I have put down my controller to read. :smile:

patsu

10-Oct-2009, 04:22

Does this kind of thing need a spoiler tag? Hints like this are lying everywhere in the game if connected online. :wink:

None of my in-game messages told me that. They suggested divide and conqueur, attack from behind, etc.
I found out by watching Yemeth's video. I was afraid deepbrown may jump on me since he doesn't seem to have played the game yet. :twisted:

For the game itself, I recently borrowed the Asian version to play. Given the way death works, I usually try to spend the souls whenever I have the chance to reduce risk. I also have guides and maps downloaded from the web ready by my side when I play to read about potential dangers. Still, seeing white ghost image of other players come into view can give me a scare, especially when I have put down my controller to read. :smile:

Yes, damn it. The white ghosts from other players made me jump a few times. After that I smiled at myself for being so emm... sensitive.

oramay

10-Oct-2009, 04:50

None of my in-game messages told me that. They suggested divide and conqueur, attack from behind, etc.
I found out by watching Yemeth's video. ...

In my case, a message told me the enemy inside is weak against fire and another suggest having firebombs ready. Pretty helpful. :smile:

Rolf N

10-Oct-2009, 11:58

About Ostrava:

You have to save Ostrava *everytime* you replay 1-1. If you ignored him like I did, he'd die by the enemies' hands eventually. Then he'd leave behind an important key. You need to pick it up. If he was still alive, he would appear in subsequent levels to help you fight. :( You'd still get the key later in the game even if you kept him alive in 1-1.
That shouldn't be an issue on your first playthrough. He can pretty much mow down any enemy in his (set, limited) path, including the blue-eyed knight.

It only becomes in issue in New Game+(+++...) because enemies get stronger, and Ostrava may not. Take that with a grain of salt as well though. To me it seems that the NPCs strength in NG+ has been bumped up by one of the patches.

Now an actual spoiler about Ostrava:He reappears in 1-2 and 1-3, again asking for your assistance. And just like 1-1, he'll be in the level again when you reenter, facing freshly spawned opposition. The enemies in 1-3 can indeed kill him if left unchecked.

patsu

10-Oct-2009, 17:07

That shouldn't be an issue on your first playthrough. He can pretty much mow down any enemy in his (set, limited) path, including the blue-eyed knight.

It only becomes in issue in New Game+(+++...) because enemies get stronger, and Ostrava may not. Take that with a grain of salt as well though. To me it seems that the NPCs strength in NG+ has been bumped up by one of the patches.

Bu... bu.. but, I found his ring among a group of Dreglings in a courtyard. Most of them were hurt and Ostrava was nowhere to be seen. I am guessing he must have died there. :(

Now an actual spoiler about Ostrava:He reappears in 1-2 and 1-3, again asking for your assistance. And just like 1-1, he'll be in the level again when you reenter, facing freshly spawned opposition. The enemies in 1-3 can indeed kill him if left unchecked.

In my case, he will no longer show up right ? Will I see him again ? That would be great.

2real4tv

10-Oct-2009, 17:10

I was trying to wait for the toys-r-us deal but I am hearing they don't carry it. I will probably get this today. Won't have too much time to play thou between school and work.

oramay

10-Oct-2009, 17:55

Bu... bu.. but, I found his ring among a group of Dreglings in a courtyard. Most of them were hurt and Ostrava was nowhere to be seen. I am guessing he must have died there. :(

The same thing happened in my game as well. I haven't seen him since. I'm playing through this game for the first time. :???:

patsu

10-Oct-2009, 23:19

I thought you played it before ?

It seems that the game may have sold out in US:
http://www.justpusahstart.com/2009/10/10/demons-souls-sold-out/

If you still have not had a chance to purchase Atlus’ PS3 exclusive RPG Demon’s Souls, you will probably have a hard time getting it now since most GameStop and Best Buy stores around most area are sold out! Calling numerous GameStop stores across the nation, they’ve stated that Demon’s Souls is sold out and has been since its release last Tuesday.

The article clarified that they didn't check online stores. Hope Atlus can confirm/deny the news, and print more !

EDIT: I sneaked to 4-1, got the Crescent Falcion. Now back at 1-2 to cross the dragon bridge. Had to leave half way to pick up my family. Told them daddy needed some time at work. ^_^
I only got 1 hour of playtime though. That sucks !

patsu

11-Oct-2009, 19:03

Yemeth, when is your game coming ? We should arrange for a co-op via the chat room.

I want to show you this:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=17988755&postcount=11386

This guy has been playing for about 30 hours straight now and he just couldn't stop. he's finally fallen asleep and even in his sleep, he is still playing the game.

http://www.justin.tv/ambiient

I shit you not. You can hear him snoring in the background. :lol: :lol:

It's true ! I went there and he was still snoring. So funny. :lol:

EDIT: Ah, he woke up and started to play another game.

If you like RPG, Demon's Souls can be addicitive. Might want to plan your schedule ahead of time.

Schaden

11-Oct-2009, 23:36

If you like RPG, Demon's Souls can be addicitive. Might want to plan your schedule ahead of time.

After you die, it's so hard to walk away. You want to keep pushing a little farther.

patsu

12-Oct-2009, 06:19

Yes... the Souls are hard earned currency. Makes me want to go back to reclaim them all the time. I couldn't resist picking up loot too even if it's the most inappropriate time... like having a dragon breathing down fire behind me. I broke my run to check a treasure. Almost got myself killed.

The guy above has started to play again. Too bad I missed how he killed the False King. When I hopped back on, he delivered the final blow.

Antan

12-Oct-2009, 11:17

Still waiting for it to land 8(

warcrow

13-Oct-2009, 21:25

This game is incredible--in more ways than one--and I have a lot to say about that. I plan on writing something much meatier on my blog because I have several thoughts I'd like to flesh out, but for now I'll spill some thoughts here.

I'm now convinced that to really enjoy this game, and to appreciate it's design, you have to be fully aware of what you're getting into. At it's core, DS is an unmerciful, cleverly crafted challenge that forces you to consider your every move. If that move is mis-stepped, it will be unrelenting in it's punishment to you, and the outcome will always be fair. Why is that? Because when you die in Demon's Souls it's almost a guarantee it's because you either used a poor strategy, did not paying well enough attention to the hints given to you by the game or fellow players or just slipped up.

See, I'm the type of guy who does not tollerate cheap, unapologetic BS in games. I embarrassingly recall a horrid incident playing Burnout 3 last year where I was so boiled over with frustration that I physically twisted my DualShock controller, cracking it near the middle and braking the circuit board inside rendering it useless (clearly a stupid, expensive reaction on my part)! It wasnt specifically because I lost a race (I've lost a lot of races in the game), but it was the WAY I lost the race that drove me completely over the edge. The details here are not important--what is important is the fact that I felt totally cheated by the game. Though I'm not proud of the way I handled the situation (read: very poorly) it's an example of what my absolute worst side looks like when I'm at the end of my rope, feeling totally cheated by poor design. (BTW, the example I'm giving has only happened two or three times in my entire life, this is not a common occurance!)

I'm siteing the above reaction because I never once came close to feeling that way with DS. The way DS treats you is expected and always fair. It might take hindsight to discover your follies (at least in my experience it did), but it's there. It's a smartly designed game with a TON of "tough love" for you so you have to be ready. If you even mess up even once with your hand in the cookie jar in the later levels you will get your hand slapped! It's completely unappologetically and sometimes proving that in one hit. That's right, and you will lose hours and hours of your concerted efforts at the flick of the AI's wrist. Everything you've accomplished in a specific stage (except for the deaths of min-bosses and bosses) will be gone. But to be more specific, you will lose the sinlge most important item in the game--Souls--which are not only the currency in the game, but also used to level your character. You will dip your head down in despair, loosen your grip on the controller as squeezing your eyes shut regreting that extra swing. Yea you probably should have blocked instread.

Some of you are undoubtedly asking yourself why would one do this, and I think I can answer that--it's because DS is a gaming experience that invokes emotions I've not felt in a very very long time. Too general of an answer? Ok fair enough.

Demon's Souls forces you to think very intently about every move you make. Simple thinks like rounding a corner in God of War become an adventure in DS. Something like that could have severe consequences so dire you lose a substantial amount of progression--it's no joke. Even more interesting is as you get deeper into the game the stakes are raised and the intensity of progression increases. At the end of the first I had the game I found my jaw aching because I was gritting my teeth while I was playing--kind of funny. Fighting the common demons can be intense but it's the boss fights--that also are radiating with creativity and amazing design--that will have you on the edge of your seat. If you havent fully grasped the situation yet let me help--if you die in a boss battle you must restart the level from the beginning with all creatues respawned and your Souls missing. HOWEVER, the game does give you one chance to gather those lost Souls. As you make your way back through the same stage, there will be a pool of blood at the spot where you died giving you a chance to get all your lost Souls back--but that's the only chance you get. If you die on the way you're screwed.

Cheap? Perhaps to some, and it's fair enough for them to feel that way, but for me it has never been. After dying I always figured out a way I could have handled it better, and so I did and I pressed forward. There is so much more I would like to talk about, but I'm out of time for now...more later! Hope this makes sense.

patsu

13-Oct-2009, 22:49

warcrow... like Rolf N, I'm having trouble writing a satisfactory impression of Demon's Souls here. I wrote up 3 impressions but had to can them midway. The game is a little counter intuitive. ^_^

All I can say right now is that the combat is unreal. The regular enemies are fun to fight. e.g., I have seen skeleton fighters since age 8 or so. None of them tensed me up like the ones in the Shrine of Storm.

The Skeleton soldier in Demon's Souls scares me because it is extremely lethal. Besides waiting in the open, they also hide around corners and dark places. When they attack, they lunge forward with full force, roll around with blades extended, break my guard with two handed long sword, and knock me out of stamina completely. All these can happen in quick succession from an almost stationary stance (like a dummy). They are fast; if they land a blow on me, it is very likely they can score a second hit again.

When combined with more monsters, the fight becomes incredibly exciting.

Every encounter has to be thought through. Every new battlefield should be studied carefully first with your own bare eyes (as much as you can see). The booby traps are there in plain sight if you evaluate the surrounding carefully. The blood stains and the messages are there to warn you. Once you trigger the fight (other than an ambush), there is very little time to think. The outcome may be over in a matter of seconds. It is between you and the monsters + traps. Nothing else stands in-between. You will die if you lose concentration or patience.

That is why my hands are cold with anxiety and anticipation *before* launching into Demon's Souls. I love this game ! :yes:

Repeating every fight can get tedious, but the visceral combat alleviates it somewhat. In some areas, there are also shortcuts you can unlock. Since I'm starting out, I usually take the long path to get more practices.

My next mission is to kill the red dragon with 200 arrows. It's optional but since every combat reward is hard earned, it makes the special equipments all that much precious to me. As we speak, I'm organizing my real-life logistics to clear 2 hours of playtime for my adventure tonight :cool:

EDIT:
And about losing Souls when you die... it's a gamble. The player can always choose to go home, or take alternate route if he's not confident. But when he decides to step forward, he is committed. There is zero way to back paddle. All those posts you see on GAF "FUUUUUUUUU [Monster name], I lost 80K !!!" are left by people who bet their farm on it, and lost. [points at them, "Ha Hah !"]

Yemeth

14-Oct-2009, 01:44

Nice write ups you two! *jumping around in anxiety for the arrival of DS*

warcrow, I can understand where you come from I have the exact same feelings about design.

I am extremely glad that this "I want to make a great game, don't care what is currently 'in'" approach was succesfull for From Software and their publishers; so there is still hope that we can have a bit variety in game design/better approach...

E.g. GTA 4 had so many poorly designed things (from the below average controls to laughable mission design) that I was furious at the designers, not because the game is hard but because it is poor (it even hurts me more that overhyped games like that are on the PS3 top of Metacritic (not to mention Assassin's Creed, the Shadow of the Beast game of this century - nice graphic/forget the rest).

If Heavy Rain manages to convey half of the emotions that Demon's Soul managed (without ever being mentioned by the designers or publishers) then it has done what David Cage wanted already :) .

I am forcing myself not to read any spoilers, not watching any more videos nor reading the postings on Atlus/GAF because some stupid posters post spoilers without tags (so the ending is half ruined for me already), but reading the thoughts here makes me want to play the game even more.

I am looking forward to read more of your opinions on Demon's Souls...

Anyway, as an end to this posting without any coherent thought, this game (altough I have yet to play it :) ) reminds me of the fantastic Severance - Blade of Darkness (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blade_of_Darkness); anyone played it here? There was also every fight a possible end, no pushover enemies found in it :) .

Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M--_gxoyo-4

Cheers

P.s.: Patsu, I'm already planning my weekends in my head to play co-op with you; so talk about life priorities :D .

patsu

14-Oct-2009, 05:10

Now that I wrote the above post in a spur of the moment... I realized that Demon's Souls is like a casino. The whole thing works on gambling principles.

As warcrow highlighted, the rules of engagement, risks and odds of survival are all laid out up front. Everyone knows that the odds favors the house. The game is set up such that the system is "fair".

The player basically drag his hard earned $$$ along, and bet it in every encounter/deal. The stake increases as the player forges ahead, so much so that he becomes more and more vested/nervous. :) The tension also builds on the knowledge that the odds is against the player. Even if you replay the encounter after a death, your health is halved to compensate for the fore-knowledge of the setup. Not to mention the enemies are tough to begin with.

Then when you lose a pot, the game gives you "one chance" to recover your last bet. This is preying on gamblers' psychology.

Some players pool together to try to beat the house (There's where co-op comes in).

Others prey on weaker players to rob them of their currency (Black Phantoms)

The key difference is: Demon's Souls is based mostly on skills instead of chances (So may be it's more like dog fighting between different weight class). Hence the RPG skills and equipments ladders fit very well with the game. Because it's based on skills in a lobesided fight, you have to concentrate on the battle (and be patient -- keep your cool !). This is totally different from dice-rolling in paper D&D games.

The other thing is Demon's Souls has fantastic art direction and style. I love their character design, art work and voice over (e.g., I perked up when the Maiden in Black went, "Touch the demon inside me" in British accent :lol:). Her voice is the only source of hope/entertainment in the dreadful Boletaria.

specwarGP2

19-Oct-2009, 00:14

so what are the graphics and framerate like? I've read some conflicting things which is holding me back from pulling the trigger on a purchase.

Schaden

19-Oct-2009, 00:42

oramay

19-Oct-2009, 03:59

Frame rate drops occasionally, especially as a mage. Not enough to bother me really, but I have seen it happen occasionally.

Graphics are well done IMO. It's not Cryis, but for an rpg, it looks impressive to me. Especially the boss battles. Each dungeon world is large and atmospheric.

If you end up liking the gameplay, I can't imagine these issues holding you back. Rent it at least and see what you think.

I second that. Whether you like this game or not will not be hanging on the occasional framerate drops. It'll be mostly about the gameplay.

It has been said a lot already that this game is brutal, but it's not just about the risk of losing souls and being thrown back to the beginning of a level on death. The game saves after every little thing you do and does not allow the possibility of backing up a save. If you accidentally push an attack button next to an important NPC, you may lose his help (learning magic, storing items etc.) for the rest of the game and there is no going back. It also means it's costly to experiment with upgrades.

I once accidentally knocked the only supplier of hard arrows (which I use a lot) off a ledge. I was just cleaning my controller and didn't know which button I triggered. The NPC was asking what I was doing but haven't started attacking me yet. Still, I was really scared and turn off the power immediately and hope nothing bad has been saved. It turned out ok but at the time, I felt totally deflated about the possibility of having messed up the rest of my game. It's much much worse than losing souls which I've also lost a lot throughout the game.

Right now, I know a shield in my possession can replenish HP but have yet to see any details about exactly how much faster it can do that if I upgrade it with a rare item. I don't want to work it out myself because this game saves every costly experiment you attempt. I guess I'll never know whether it's worth upgrading or not.

Overall, I enjoy my time with this game (only area 1-4 left now), apart from the moments when I feel the full force of its unforgiving nature. :wink:

SonComet

19-Oct-2009, 06:26

OK, all the impressions here have finally pushed me over the edge. I ordered this. I'm going to give it a try after The Ballad of Gay Tony and A Crack in Time. Those 2 games were going to be my last 2 of the year, but not anymore :).

Carl B

19-Oct-2009, 15:19

Awesome game - that's my one line contribution to this thread for the moment! ;)

Scott_Arm

19-Oct-2009, 15:49

I thought this was some crappy jrpg with turn based combat. Turns out I'm wrong.

One question I have about the online: Can you turn off the feature that allows others to enter your game and kill you, and still play online with friends?

Basically, I want to be able to play the game with some friends and not have to worry about some mega powerful asshole jumping in and slaughtering us.

Carl B

19-Oct-2009, 17:50

One question I have about the online: Can you turn off the feature that allows others to enter your game and kill you, and still play online with friends?

No. :razz:

Scott_Arm

19-Oct-2009, 17:59

No. :razz:

That's actually a huge turnoff for me. Kind of disappointing because the game looks great. Unfortunately it'll turn into a huge griefing fest for new players, from the way it sounds.

Carl B

19-Oct-2009, 18:04

That's actually a huge turnoff for me. Kind of disappointing because the game looks great. Unfortunately it'll turn into a huge griefing fest for new players, from the way it sounds.

Also no. But it's hard to explain why. For myself for instance the vast majority of my playtime thus far has been in 'dead' form, which renders you immune from any sort of external invasion. Of which the worst that happens is you 'die' anyway.

If it were an issue you'd hear more talk about it; for myself it hasn't happened even once.

Beyond that though, you should know that there's really no way to coordinate ending up playing with a friend unless you do some very tight coordinating; it's not traditional co-op or anything like that.

I don't think you'll be disappointed with the game.

More general question for the players out there: I increase my magic strength, but it's hard to see the effect on my spells - is the damage increasing? :)

Scott_Arm

19-Oct-2009, 18:10

I guess I thought it worked like Fable 2, because it seems to be a greatly advanced version of what Fable 2 was doing. Not being able to play with your friends in a game with co-op is kind of strange. I think I need to find a better writeup on how the multi player component works.

Carl B

19-Oct-2009, 18:16

The best way to think of it, is that there essentially is no multi-player component; but there *is* a network component. Other players around the world and such are able to subtly influence your game - very rarely directly - and probably most importantly at the beginning, they're able to leave you hints on how to progress, and likewise you them.

I mean it's hard to explain like I said, but best not to look at it as multi-player at all.

Scott_Arm

19-Oct-2009, 18:29

obonicus

19-Oct-2009, 18:34

It's a Japanese version of co-op and the different take on online is one of the things that make the game so fascinating.

patsu

19-Oct-2009, 18:35

The answer is "in-between". To avoid Black Phantom invasion:

(1) Stay as a soul. Most of the time I am dead anyway thanks to hospitable enemies. :-D So... no need to worry about invasion. Only players with a live body can be invaded. However you cannot host a co-op game as a soul. You have to join someone with a body.

(2) You can buy a Miracle to minimize your chance of encountering Black Phantoms. It costs 5000 souls.

EDIT:
Awesome game - that's my one line contribution to this thread for the moment! ;)

Yeah I saw you playing. Left you alone because I didn't want to break the immersion with a XMB message notification. ^_^

Demon's Souls and U2, plus my day job, have finally brought me down. I've fallen sick after a marathon of U2 and Demon's Souls. >_<
It's been fun though. I managed to kill one more (easy) boss last night. Now looting the Shrine of Storm to level up.

Regarding its online gameplay, I can't praise Demon's Souls enough. From Software totally broke free from the traditional MP molds and introduced something so natural and yet sinister to its game. I got a few more scares last night thanks to "ghosts" in parallel game sessions.

obonicus

19-Oct-2009, 18:46

In fact, I think I've heard about 'nice' black phantoms, that let you kill them, or kill monsters for you.

patsu

19-Oct-2009, 18:48

Yap ! http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1345224&postcount=81

Occasionally you may encounter a Good Black Phantom. They know that some players may have problems with the game so they go an extra mile to help. Enemies don't react to Black Phantom, so as a Black Phantom you basically can just kill all the enemies without worries that you will get killed.
All souls dropped by enemies will be given to the host. Also, near the end, the Good Black Phantom will let the host kill them to get a Whiter World Tendency.

:lol: :lol: :lol: HOLY CRAP I CANT BELIEVE WHAT JUST HAPPENED!

I was on the Old Monk boss and apparently the boss is another player. Well I had my unlucky share and met someone who looked RIDICULOUS, probably beat the game 20 times or something... this is, I knew I'd die so I just ran around in circles. He just stood there though, he did a /sigh or something then /point /comeon or whatever, he pretty much told me that I could kill him AND SO I DID :lol Thanks whoever!

deathindustrial

20-Oct-2009, 01:15

Fresh supplies on the way:

http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97902

IRVINE, CALIFORNIA - OCTOBER 19, 2009 -- Atlus U.S.A., Inc. today announced that additional stock of Demon's Souls™, the newly released award-winning action RPG for PlayStation®3 computer entertainment system, will be making its way to stores across North America this week in response to overwhelming demand.

Not sure if that applies to Canada or not but at least you yanks will be able to find a copy.

=)

Cheers

patsu

20-Oct-2009, 01:21

Wahahaha.... they discontinued the deluxe edition. Makes me feel smart about buying it early. *snort* *snort*

Scott_Arm

20-Oct-2009, 02:51

I may be stupid and buy both this and Borderlands. Not that I'll have time for all these games, but I think I can make it work with trade-ins.

vazel

20-Oct-2009, 04:29

Wahahaha.... they discontinued the deluxe edition. Makes me feel smart about buying it early. *snort* *snort*The deluxe edition is more limited run than discontinued. And yea since this is an Atlus game its value should be good for a long time if you're going to resell. I hope Afrika becomes valuable I don't mind reselling things if they get me good money. I should've sold Street Fighter IV CE for PS3 when it was going for over $100 I knew the hype for the CE wasn't going to last.

Yemeth

20-Oct-2009, 10:52

Wahahaha.... they discontinued the deluxe edition. Makes me feel smart about buying it early. *snort* *snort*

I have yet to get my copy :cry: .

If it does not arrive in the next two days I, sadly, must assume it got "lost". Hope that VG+ will send me a new copy (if it is not sold out+if the package is insured that way).

Anyway, I see that more and more people are playing it due to word to mouth, which shows that even in these overhype days a quality product can make it without gigantic marketing.

Cheers...

woundingchaney

20-Oct-2009, 16:55

Currently working on finishing the title and it has been by far the best action rpg I have played this generation. This title has been the most rewarding experience I have played for years and well worth all the positiive word of mouth it receives. Im sure GOTY will go to some high profile title like Ass Cr 2, MW 2, ODST, Unch 2 etc but IMO this title deserves it as of now.

patsu

20-Oct-2009, 17:08

I have yet to get my copy :cry: .

If it does not arrive in the next two days I, sadly, must assume it got "lost". Hope that VG+ will send me a new copy (if it is not sold out+if the package is insured that way).

That's a major bummer. :mad: It is very likely they can't do anything about it. I read that Atlus promised a retailer new deluxe editions that turn out to be just regular edition + art book and sound track. Still hope to see you in Demon's Souls. I am progressing very slowly, but happily.

Scott_Arm

20-Oct-2009, 18:00

I took a look today and didn't see any in the stores. Probably a good thing for my wallet. Was this game really limited upon release in North America?

obonicus

20-Oct-2009, 18:03

It's an Atlus game, they don't print a ton of their games.

patsu

20-Oct-2009, 18:04

Well... more will come given deathindustrial's post.

DrJay24

20-Oct-2009, 20:42

Put my order in at amazon. On principle I waited for my trade in credit for Batman, it took them 8 days from shipping. Don't use their service if you are in a hurry.

betan

20-Oct-2009, 22:23

I didn't know Amazon had a tradein service.

Daozang

20-Oct-2009, 23:43

Is DS out in the EU? I can't find it anywhere here in Greece... Damn you guys have hyped me up quite a bit!!!

patsu

21-Oct-2009, 02:00

I have not seen any announcement to bring the game to EU. You'll need to import it.

The characters already speak British English. So I'm a little surprised it's not available in EU.

vazel

21-Oct-2009, 08:01

Well... more will come given deathindustrial's post.Even after a reprint of Persona 2 that game has still become rare. Although the reprint of Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne has made that game widely available. I think Demon's Souls is always going to be widely available. It doesn't have enough animu crap to make it highly sought after in Atlus' gamer demographic.

Daozang

21-Oct-2009, 09:31

I have not seen any announcement to bring the game to EU. You'll need to import it.

The characters already speak British English. So I'm a little surprised it's not available in EU.

Should I import from the US and is it going to work on my launch unit? I'm really hyped about that game...

Yemeth

21-Oct-2009, 09:36

Should I import from the US and is it going to work on my launch unit? I'm really hyped about that game...

PS3 games are region free, so nothing stops you there.

Daozang

21-Oct-2009, 10:14

PS3 games are region free, so nothing stops you there.

Thanks! I only hope that there won't be a problem with PSN.

JPT

21-Oct-2009, 11:37

Thanks! I only hope that there won't be a problem with PSN.

Probably future DLC from any other store than the US one, will NOT work with your copy. Ie DLC is region protected.

Antan

21-Oct-2009, 12:17

Yay! 1st Demon in the bag!! Died the 1st time, but got back to recover my Souls, then unleashed hell on him....................ok, so it took me 20 mins of fanny tapping and running away!!!!!

Man i`d love to see a sequel with a true next ge engine! Don`t get me wrong, its perfectly functionable, and the atmosphere created is great, but can you imagine something up there with the likes of Unchartered? .........

patsu

21-Oct-2009, 16:48

What were you fighting ? ^_^

I think the Home team should do a meta-game on Demon's Souls. Will explain more in the Home thread later.

EDIT:
I just saw the GoW III screens. Your next-gen RPG visual wish will be granted there. Over here, the art, atmosphere and combat will be your primary sensory experience.

Antan

21-Oct-2009, 17:12

What were you fighting ? ^_^

I think the Home team should do a meta-game on Demon's Souls. Will explain more in the Home thread later.

EDIT:
I just saw the GoW III screens. Your next-gen visual wish will be granted there.

The Phlanax...........and his little minnions! ......

patsu

21-Oct-2009, 17:14

Ah, the real Demon's Souls starts after the death of the Phalanx since you can level up now.

deathindustrial

21-Oct-2009, 17:27

Played this game last night for a couple of hours. I understand the attraction folks have to it (this post is not a diss of the game in its entirety) but I am surprised that there hasn't been much mention of the really awkward lock-on system and controls.

The most common thread I have seen is that the game is hard but fair, tough but not cheap. Well, I find that the controls and camera lead to a lot of cheap deaths due to not being able to actually target your enemy properly or accidentally walking off a ledge because the camera gets swung around at the wrong moment. I chose the "royal" as my character based on recommendations and the magic blast power (forget the name) is basically useless unless you can target an enemy as there is no reticule and the direction of fire seems based on a point somewhere near the end of the animation sequence that gets trivially moved off target. Targeting using a standard sword is also twitchy and even when totally surrounded with a monster closet of baddies in a section of 1-1 after falling off a ledge the sword did not seem to actually find any of them much of the time - the targeting seemed to become somewhat confused. I survived via multiple taps of "o" but the whole sequence did not strike me as fair.

The menu interface is a minor annoyance with its forced use of the D pad. Also, having to lock on with R3 seems like a bad choice since your movement also relies on that stick (which means that your position gets changed). The targeting system also has a finite distance which seems too short considering that you can see the enemy clearly. The character animations also seem to be non-interruptible which leads to death while taking health packs which is the definition of cheap. Another camera issue is that when moving in tight spaces it is pulled too far back. There is a spot early on in 1-1 where you have to walk through a doorway which has monsters waiting out of sight. Even after you know it's coming, the camera makes it difficult to react properly because it is hard to swing it around to get a decent enough view to target and then attack.

On a separate note, the manual is absolutely useless on how saves work in this game. I played the game for 2 or 3 hours so far, read the manual and still have no idea what I need to do (if anything) to save my game progress. That's a core enough thing that I should not have to Wiki it to find out.

On the plus side, anyone else reminded of Ico by this game?

Cheers

Gradthrawn

21-Oct-2009, 17:37

On a separate note, the manual is absolutely useless on how saves work in this game. I played the game for 2 or 3 hours so far, read the manual and still have no idea what I need to do (if anything) to save my game progress. That's a core enough thing that I should not have to Wiki it to find out.

On the plus side, anyone else reminded of Ico by this game?

Cheers

That confused me at first too. Then again, I had the import version so I didn't even bother trying to read the manual. Anyway, you don't do anything to save (just quit from the menu when you're done). Keep that in mind before doing something stupid, like hitting an NPC you might need later. Better yet, keep that in mind when doing anything around NPCs.

Also keep in mind that the game is still live when you're in the menu (in case you didn't notice already). It's best to just quit if you need to walk away. You'll start back right where you left off (including killed enemies). When you're outside of the Nexus, that is.

patsu

21-Oct-2009, 17:59

The most common thread I have seen is that the game is hard but fair, tough but not cheap. Well, I find that the controls and camera lead to a lot of cheap deaths due to not being able to actually target your enemy properly or accidentally walking off a ledge because the camera gets swung around at the wrong moment. I chose the "royal" as my character based on recommendations and the magic blast power (forget the name) is basically useless unless you can target an enemy as there is no reticule and the direction of fire seems based on a point somewhere near the end of the animation sequence that gets trivially moved off target. Targeting using a standard sword is also twitchy and even when totally surrounded with a monster closet of baddies in a section of 1-1 after falling off a ledge the sword did not seem to actually find any of them much of the time - the targeting seemed to become somewhat confused. I survived via multiple taps of "o" but the whole sequence did not strike me as fair.

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1345043&postcount=80

Combat control is smooth and easy. R3 targeting needs some pre-planning and practices. Need to play a few more rounds to see if I can switch target easily. Every small enemy is worthy and fun because the combat feels natural and impactful.

Targeting takes some getting used to but it's not a big problem for me. Usually I plan my route of attack. In subsequent levels, you'll have enemies distracting you off the cliff. It's better to kill them first before crossing the ledge.

The Soul Arrow's range is limited. You need to get closer to the enemy to target it. The game won't let you off so easily with a long range weapon until later in the game. It's rather scary to try to close in on a fierce enemy to fire Soul Arrows. This prevents you from cheesing the monster too easily. I love the tension. :) Later, you can use a bow which allows you to target enemies further away, and using FPS view (with a reticule) too; but not now. Note that the crossbow does not have a reticule also. You need a normal bow for that.

If you start as a hunter, you'd get a normal bow at the beginning though. However you'll need to spend Souls to buy arrows. Royal is great not only because of Soul Arrow and MP regen ring. It has a low Soul Level, so you can level up quicker and adjust your character stats early to suit your play style.

The targeting works very well for enemies in general, especially when you face a fast rolling skeleton later. Your character will swing around automatically to hit the nimble enemies. If enemies are bunched together, they will all take damage when you swing at one of them.

The menu interface is a minor annoyance with its forced use of the D pad. Also, having to lock on with R3 seems like a bad choice since your movement also relies on that stick (which means that your position gets changed). The targeting system also has a finite distance which seems too short considering that you can see the enemy clearly. The character animations also seem to be non-interruptible which leads to death while taking health packs which is the definition of cheap.

It's how the game is designed. Once you know the rules, you'll have to plan your attack around the rules. The tension are all built around known rules. Whether you accept them or can manage them or not depends on you. There are enemies who can heal themselves too (and yes, they'd be stationary for you to hit). So in that sense, it's fair. There is no advantage given to them or you in the actual action.

Also, note that a character who is out of stamina may not respond to your action. Along the way, you may have to adjust your melee style and pattern based on enemies and your equipment. The game has a sense of weight built around the equipments you use (and your character stats). If you wear a light armor, you will be quicker. The starting Royal is not bad, but not the fastest either.

Targeting range depends on weapon type. You're only a level 1 character facing low level monsters. You may not want to expect super-human ability. :) The Soul Arrow is already a one-hit kill weapon for most enemies in 1-1.

Another camera issue is that when moving in tight spaces it is pulled too far back. There is a spot early on in 1-1 where you have to walk through a doorway which has monsters waiting out of sight. Even after you know its coming, the camera makes it difficult to react properly because it is hard to swing it around to get a decent enough view to target and then attack.

Sometimes, the game will intentionally design enemies in places you can't see to get you into trouble. The only safe way is to lure them out. In a new area, I always proceed extremely cautiously around corners or through a door. Usually, there'd be blood stains and player messages to warn you anyway.

On a separate note, the manual is absolutely useless on how saves work in this game. I played the game for 2 or 3 hours so far, read the manual and still have no idea what I need to do (if anything) to save my game progress. That's a core enough thing that I should not have to Wiki it to find out.

Yes, the game is in need of a thick manual. The deluxe edition has a guide that is extremely helpful. Demon's Souls is a very deep game. Concepts like World Tendency online/offline is specific to the game and requires explanation and experimentations.

As for saving, I found it without problem. It's the last icon when you press > (Start). You return to the exact same spot you saved the game. So you don't have to worry about restarting from the last check point. The game also autosaves whenever you die or make a change.

EDIT: Regarding enemies hiding around corners, there will be a spell for you to rid them later. Now they are only low level monsters, might want to use the opportunities to tackle them. You'll need to face the bosses some day.

deathindustrial

21-Oct-2009, 18:09

As for saving, I found it without problem. It's the last icon when you press > (Start). You return to the exact same spot you saved the game. So you don't have to worry about restarting from the last check point. The game also autosaves whenever you die or make a change.

Hey Patsu. There is no "save" option under that menu. The choices are just: "options", "load profile" and "quit game".

As an aside, what are the "fog" doorways for? I might have missed it but didn't see anything in the manual abut them and it was not clear from the gameplay what was different either.

Cheers

patsu

21-Oct-2009, 18:10

Hey Patsu. There is no "save" option under that menu. The choices are just: "options", "load profile" and "quit game".

Ah... quit game saves the game and exit. ^_^

As an aside, what are the "fog" doorways for? I might have missed it but didn't see anything in the manual abut them and it was not clear from the gameplay what was different either.

It is the next area. Enter it. Once you enter a fogged door, it will remain open for the rest of the game.

Some of them leads to boss battles.

EDIT: deathindustrial, you might want to watch the video Yemeth posted. It contains helpful walkthrough to get some useful equipments in 1-1 and subsequent levels.

patsu

21-Oct-2009, 18:46

deathindustrial, I want to take back one thing I said before.

"You are a level 1 character facing low level enemies"

The above statement is not true in Demon's Souls. It is important to realize this. The game mixes high level monsters even in introductory stages regardless of your character level. Usually you'd be warned by player messages and sometimes, blood stains. The (red eyed ?) knight wielding the lance on the bridge and the dragons in 1-2 are good examples. There are ways to kill/trick them even when you're only an entry level character. But it is not wise to challenge them head on. In Demon's Souls, don't be ashamed to run away. Running away is a valid tactic, and sometimes the only answer.

You don't have to kill them to progress. You can come back later to tackle them. The knight guards the entrance to an optional sidequest. The dragon is an environmental hazard that you can get rid of to simplify the game later. I killed the red dragon with a mix of bow and Soul Arrows before I attempted to cross the 1-2 bridge. I heard it's a b*tch to cross the last segment of the bridge with the dragon alive. So I nailed it in the second segment.

Also, events in the game is affected by World Tendency (White, Black or in-betweens). Some monsters appear as a phantom or don't appear at all in certain World Tendency. Some special items can only be retrieved in Pure White/Black Tendency. When you play online, your World Tendency will be affected by all the collective players' worlds. :)

patsu

21-Oct-2009, 22:44

Yemeth, I found 16 copies of Demon's Souls in Fry's this afternoon while hunting for Afrika. My GameStop has a few copies too. So the new stock seems to be in now.

oramay

22-Oct-2009, 15:33

I'm about to start the assassination quest. Does anyone know if I'm requested to kill person B, and then I watch him killed by other enemies, do I still get reward for his death? Do I still get to proceed to the next assassination target?

Regarding the lock on camera swing etc., I think choosing when to toggle lock on and lock off is seen as an important skill to master in this game. Well, at least the wiki (http://demonssouls.wikidot.com/tips) and a guide says so and I agree. :wink:

patsu

22-Oct-2009, 16:00

I'm about to start the assassination quest. Does anyone know if I'm requested to kill person B, and then I watch him killed by other enemies, do I still get reward for his death? Do I still get to proceed to the next assassination target?

I read in GAF that some guy lured a group of monsters to kill Ostrava. That way his Character Tendency didn't change (He wanted to stay White). He didn't mention the assassination quest though. If you want, you can tell me all the details and I can ask there. There are a lot more DS experts on GAF compared to B3D.

Regarding the lock on camera swing etc., I think choosing when to toggle lock on and lock off is seen as an important skill to master in this game. Well, at least the wiki (http://demonssouls.wikidot.com/tips) and a guide says so and I agree. :wink:

Yeah... targeting can be frustrating in 2-* because of wandering NPCs. 4-* is dangerous because of flying enemies. The player has to be very careful in managing the targeting wherever he goes. But it's helpful when fighting fast enemies.

patsu

22-Oct-2009, 21:48

deathindustrial, I saw a screen shot of the bow reticule on GAF today:

http://xs1144.xs.to/xs1144/09434/coward432.jpg

Press L1 to enter this view (After pressing L1 to equip it).
You'll need a strength of 12 to wield one. The better bows will require higher strength.

Your arrow count is at bottom left.

It's very similar to the new controller's archery demo.

EDIT: The compound long bow is pretty powerful when upgraded. You can kill some bosses with it if you don't want to get your hands dirty (like me !). The game won't let you shoot at leisure, so you'll have to dodge incoming danger. Nonetheless, it's much safer than tackling them toe-to-toe.

Akumajou

22-Oct-2009, 22:34

~snip

If you were to lock on to something in real life with a sword and shield, chances are that you will never be able to keep up with yourself and get killed if the enemy moved to evade your death blow.

Basically lock on should not mean forever lock on, thats cheating, aka cheap.

deathindustrial

22-Oct-2009, 23:16

The problem though is that the controls are too clunky (especially combined with the camera) to be able to reliably target the enemies. Presumably this is why they decided to toss in the autolock function - combat was too frustrating and random without it.

I played a few more hours last night and I died more than once due to forgetting to trigger the target lock and this causing my attack to miss. Combine that with the camera having major issues in confined spaces and you get some cheap deaths for happening sure. When a monster is directly in front of you and you shoot magic at it or swing your sword but the animation and camera causes you to land far to the left, I call that cheap.

=)

My point is not that I necessarily want target lock, it is that the game is designed around it and I feel the implementation is not the best. I would personally prefer it if the game was first person so the camera issues would be less pronounced and so that the character animations would not cause the unpredictable targeting they do now (if you haven't managed to get the target lock enabled).

Maybe once I figure out how to reliably change the targeted enemy it will be less death inducing when I am being mobbed.

On an unrelated note, where are your experience points shown in the HUD? The Wiki and manual (I think) mentions them but I have been unable to find them in game.

Cheers

patsu

22-Oct-2009, 23:35

The problem though is that the controls are too clunky (especially combined with the camera) to be able to reliably target the enemies. Presumably this is why they decided to toss in the autolock function - combat was too frustrating and random without it.

Like most posters in the GAF DS thread, I actually like the controls. ^_^
It's smooth and intuitive. Also didn't use autolock for slower enemies.

Autolock is helpful for fast enemies, but necessary for ranged attack (except in FPS view).
It works very well for boss fights so far. The system can get into trouble if you have many small enemies running around though. In which case, you need to manage your fight carefully, or solve the problem in other ways.

I played a few more hours last night and I died more than once due to forgetting to trigger the target lock and this causing my attack to miss. Combine that with the camera having major issues in confined spaces and you get some cheap deaths for happening sure. When a monster is directly in front of you and you shoot magic at it or swing your sword but the animation and camera causes you to land far to the left, I call that cheap.

=)

You can call it whatever you want.

Which level are you in now ? The camera does block my view sometimes, but it's not a big problem so far, even in a confined space. In fact, I don't die from camera issues at all. My deaths are mostly caused by rolling off a cliff while dodging attack; or got chopped into pieces because I lost stamina or someone broke my guard. ^_^

My point is not that I necessarily want target lock, it is that the game is designed around it and I feel the implementation is not the best. I would personally prefer it if the game was first person so the camera issues would be less pronounced and so that the character animations would not cause the unpredictable targeting they do now (if you haven't managed to get the target lock enabled).

Hmm... but I want to see my armor and character design in third person view. First person view may also be more frustrating since I can't see the enemies behind or around me.

The current view allows me to manage fighting better.

Maybe once I figure out how to reliably change the targeted enemy it will be less death inducing when I am being mobbed.

Why are you getting mobbed in the first place ? When you saved Ostrava, I remembered you jumped into the group of Dreglings to fight them ? I saw a video where some guy did that, he was able to lay down the entire group very quickly. For me, I simply Soul Arrowed most of them to death and then took down the remaining 1-2 guy.

On an unrelated note, where are your experience points shown in the HUD? The Wiki and manual (I think) mentions them but I have been unable to find them in game.

You mean your Soul Level ? Or the amount of Souls you gained to upgrade ? If it's the latter, it's at the bottom right.

patsu

22-Oct-2009, 23:49

You might want to check out this video Yemeth posted:

qG018Yg4kOM

It shows you the important items to get when starting out.

He seems pretty good at managing the camera. The camera is controlled by your right thumbstick anyway. You can adjust it if you don't like the view. If you press it down, you lock on. Press it again if you don't want locking. When autolock is on, you lose camera control. Give it up to get the camera back.

At 3:00, He jumped into the horde of Dreglings to save Ostrava. Look at how he take them down without autolock.

EDIT:
I remember you're using a Royal. Your primary weapon would be the Rapier. It has piercing action instead of swinging. So your damage area will be smaller. This may be the problem. If you prefer to swing your weapon like the gentleman above, then you might want to change your weapon. I'm using a Falchion now. I am also a Royal.

oramay

23-Oct-2009, 01:22

If you want, you can tell me all the details and I can ask there. There are a lot more DS experts on GAF compared to B3D.

Thanks a lot.:smile: My problem is this:
I know one of the assassination targets is Biorr, but I also know he will help distract the blue dragon in 1-4 and make my life easier there. As I understand it, he either dies in the process or disappear from the current game after that regardless. So, I'm thinking if I can get the best of both worlds. Can I first take the assassination order, then go to kill the blue dragon and see Biorr dies in the process of helping me, and then go back to Nexus to collect reward? If I can't get the reward without killing him myself, can I still get the next assassination job after he's gone, or will I be stuck?

patsu

23-Oct-2009, 01:30

Posted here (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=18160621&postcount=17365)

It's a tricky question. I wonder if anyone else thought of that.

oramay

23-Oct-2009, 03:57

Posted here (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=18160621&postcount=17365)

It's a tricky question. I wonder if anyone else thought of that.

Thanks, I know what to do now.:smile: I'd just do the assassinations first.

patsu

23-Oct-2009, 05:16

Damn it, I got invaded by 2 Black Phantoms tonight.

Just finished off the 2-1 boss, got my body back and continued exploring.

I didn't see the first invasion message. So I thought he was an in-game BP. He appeared with 2 other in-game enemies I had not seen before. Was able to dispatch all of them relatively quickly.

The second BP invasion message appeared almost immediately after I killed the first one. I was worried about the possibility of a third BP, and decided to call it quits.

I fired up the Evacuate spell, but it didn't $^&#^$# work ! May be that spell doesn't work when invaded ? I paid 20K to learn it. Tried 2 more times; still nothing. I was losing precious time.

I hurried back to the Archstone on-foot and not surprisingly, met the new BP in a narrow tunnel head-on. My weapon setup was all wrong because I was trying to cast the Evacuate spell. I also suffered from bleeding from the first encounter. Took a few hits immediately, but fortunately missed a Soul Arrow. I had over 20K on me and had to wave goodbye to them now. [Ph*ck !]

I rolled forward clumsily to pass him and avoided more attacks. Was determined to make a dash to the Archstone. It's about 30 seconds away. Also trying to heal and change my weapon config like all at the same time while fumbling around. My hands were cold, and I felt feverish (!). Didn't even have time to scream or breathe.

He was running behind me, swinging his sword. I bumped into him after barely equipping my Falchion. For the first time, I was able to see his outfit (Fluted armor with long sword ?). No wonder I had a chance to re-equip; fluted armor must be heavy and slow.

While that thought lingered in the air, the fight was over.

He got careless and I got lucky. I rolled into him while his shield was down.
Had enough stamina left to dish out a few rapid slashes. I just upgraded my Crescent Falchion too.

The screen read, "The Black Phantom was Destroyed !"

Screw you, I don't want to stay any longer... going home now.

[patsu made it back to the Nexus to change his pants]

szymku

23-Oct-2009, 08:03

I always use poison daggers on black phantom, throw one and then avoiding their attacks until they die from poisoning... I wonder why they didn't carry antidotes....

patsu

23-Oct-2009, 08:29

Ha ha... now I have to worry about incoming poison daggers too. :twisted:

It was fun anyway. Was planning for future BP invasions as I drove home. The Evacuate spell (actually, a miracle) was my original plan for handling unwelcomed BP encounters. I wanted to go home early tonight. I think it worked out okay in the end. Earned extra souls to spend. Am a little more confident with BP encounters.

I got another scare in 4-2 yesterday. Was sandwiched between 2 Shadowmen as they revived. Couldn't roll pass the Shadowman behind me. He's too big (or the tunnel was too small). Panicked and suddenly forgot which button was "Attack". :lol: My fingers kept mashing the [] button as a reflex. Wasted 20 half-moon leaves :D but I survived long enough to remember R1. Killed the Shadowman in time, and escaped with a sliver of health.

I tell ya... this game reminds me of an old friend. He always told me, "Don't pray too hard, you might get it". I wanted to try a horror game. This one nearly gave me heart attack. :)

Prophecy2k

23-Oct-2009, 12:46

Does anyone know of any possibility of this game coming to Europe?

oramay

23-Oct-2009, 13:17

I fired up the Evacuate spell, but it didn't $^&#^$# work ! May be that spell doesn't work when invaded ? I paid 20K to learn it. Tried 2 more times; still nothing.

I think you can't go back to Nexus when an invasion is still going on. You can't go back even if you touch the archstone of your current area. However, Evacuate is well worth the price because it makes souls farming more efficient.

The first time I saw an invasion notice, I tried to run away as well. I was in 4-1 at the time. I knew an invader is ejected when the host runs across different areas separated by archstone. Then, I realized I haven't faced the 4-1 boss yet, and hence have nowhere to run. :grin: The guy was upon me when I was still thinking what to equip. Fortunately, I managed to kill the guy but I was anxious and nervous for the whole process and quit game afterward to take a breather. :razz:

Carl B

23-Oct-2009, 13:54

I haven't found an amulet yet - if you learn miracles do they dish one out to you, or do you need to track one down in the world? If it's the later, don't spoil it for me as to where! ;)

Gradthrawn

23-Oct-2009, 14:09

Damn it, I got invaded by 2 Black Phantoms tonight.

....The second BP invasion message appeared almost immediately after I killed the first one. I was worried about the possibility of a third BP, and decided to call it quits.

I fired up the Evacuate spell, but it didn't $^&#^$# work ! May be that spell doesn't work when invaded ? I paid 20K to learn it. Tried 2 more times; still nothing. I was losing precious time.

I hurried back to the Archstone on-foot and not surprisingly, met the new BP in a narrow tunnel head-on....

I think you can't go back to Nexus when an invasion is still going on. You can't go back even if you touch the archstone of your current area.

oramay is correct, there's no running once you're invaded. You're only escape is death. :razz: The archstone will be inactive or behind a fog gate.

I haven't found an amulet yet - if you learn miracles do they dish one out to you, or do you need to track one down in the world? If it's the later, don't spoil it for me as to where! ;)

Once you find the component necessary to cast miracles, and have sufficient stats (one stat in particular), you can learn Miracles from certain NPCs. Some are in the Nexus at the start of the game. Others, you'll have to find (or should I say free?) in the worlds.

patsu

23-Oct-2009, 17:38

The first time I saw an invasion notice, I tried to run away as well. I was in 4-1 at the time. I knew an invader is ejected when the host runs across different areas separated by archstone. Then, I realized I haven't faced the 4-1 boss yet, and hence have nowhere to run. :grin: The guy was upon me when I was still thinking what to equip. Fortunately, I managed to kill the guy but I was anxious and nervous for the whole process and quit game afterward to take a breather. :razz:

Ok, I don't feel so bad trying to run away now. :-P

It was certainly a nerve wrecking experience. I suspect I was higher level than the intruders if they sent more than one after me. They were not difficult to kill. The multi-arm skeleton warriors have trained me well. In fact, I'm rather grateful to them now. :lol:

I haven't found an amulet yet - if you learn miracles do they dish one out to you, or do you need to track one down in the world? If it's the later, don't spoil it for me as to where! ;)

They call it Talisman instead of Amulet.

Yeah like Gradthrawn mentioned, it's all self-service man. ^_^

EDIT: Oh and I know why the game doesn't pause when you open the menu. It's because it can't pause a human Black Phantom. ^_^

Good thing too, since I could fiddle around with my set up clumsily/awkwardly while running.

Carl B

23-Oct-2009, 18:13

They call it Talisman instead of Amulet.

Yeah like Gradthrawn mentioned, it's all self-service man. ^_^

Obviously it was my fault for not having played any of a certain level yet - unfortunately the 'godly' fellows have been killed off in my game so no one to teach me anything at this point. Weren't killed by me either I should add - these wacky NPC's! ;)

Gradthrawn

23-Oct-2009, 18:16

Obviously it was my fault for not having played any of a certain level yet - unfortunately the 'godly' fellows have been killed off in my game so no one to teach me anything at this point. Weren't killed by me either I should add - these wacky NPC's! ;)

Already? Wow. What happened?

Carl B

23-Oct-2009, 18:25

Well Gradthrawn don't let my noob-like question throw you off - I'm soul level 48 right now and deep'ish into the game. I'm just playing completely with a minimum of outside references (how I do RPGs), so for the path my character was taking there was just no need to go "there" at the outset. No wikis or item locations or anything for me; ups the satisfaction of discovery! (I discovered it shortly after posting btw, uh that would have been simple) I actually like the fact that there are so many free floating variables occurring in the world which you don't control though. My guy's spell heavy anyway, so miracles were just a sideshow. :razz:

But I think I want to start another character up as well to give a different feel, which was partly what the question was about.

patsu

23-Oct-2009, 18:32

Wow xbd, :shock: you must be a hard core RPG guy to play Demon's Souls without any external references.

You can look up the wiki to see if there is another higher level priest NPC to teach you the miracle. Or is the top guy dead, and all his followers hate your guts now ?

A magic user is extremely powerful in-game but may be weak against higher level player BPs who use anti-magic equipments. Be careful and remember to use the blue stones where appropriate. Another way is to ambush the intruders and blast them off the cliff.

Yemeth

23-Oct-2009, 18:33

Carl B

23-Oct-2009, 18:38

Wow xbd, :shock: you must be a hard core RPG guy to play Demon's Souls without any external references.

Oh I'm hard core alright - ever since Dragon Warrior landed on the NES waaaay back when; I refuse external assistance. I mean I pick things up by osmosis of course, which is how I know that everyone is always hanging out at 'x' locale, where said item would easily have been grabbed. Actually knowing everyone loves that place sort of had a negative feedback effect on me and probably kept me away longer than it should have! But for my character - and I do create personas for them - the stuff going on in 'y' level was a philosophical priority.

Man what a black phantom hangout 'x' is though. I win some fights, I lose some fights - I do like the aspect.

Anyway no the 'top' church guy isn't dead, because I haven't found him yet. I don't know what his fate will be when I do, but I'm looking forward to finding out. The NPC dynamics in the game are pretty awesome, and I expect/hope I'm just at the tip of the iceberg.

patsu

23-Oct-2009, 18:39

Hello,

my copy finally arrived and I have played a bit of the Boletarian Palace. Even found the Cling ring without any hints :) .

I must say so far it is great, I had not enough time to sunk completely into the game as I had to watch the spent time...

Choosed Temple Knight as my origin and I have problems knowing how far my halberd can reach and often hit obstacles instead of the enemies :) . Will probably start 1-2 new chars to see how they play. Especially looking forward to play a magic user :) .

Now, I do not want to read any hints etc. until I really run into unsolvable problems, because the atmosphere and story so far is great.

Looking forward to play with all of you I run into... BTW, Patsu what soul level do you have, so I know how much I need to improve to play with you :) .

Cheers...

Last night I was Level 56. ^_^ Went to farm @ 4-* and forgot about the game's mission. Had too much fun digging up skeleton warriors and sniping ghouls. I went back to 2-* to continue my game only yesterday.

I'll be more careful with spoilers. xbd and you sound like "free and easy" adventurers. Would love to hear your lore some day -- when you survived them :-P. Good luck !

Anyway no the 'top' church guy isn't dead, because I haven't found him yet. I don't know what his fate will be when I do, but I'm looking forward to finding out. The NPC dynamics in the game are pretty awesome, and I expect/hope I'm just at the tip of the iceberg.

Oh lord, I hope this one lives. I'm guessing the assassin you saved murdered your people ?

Antan

23-Oct-2009, 19:55

That bloody Tower Knight is doing my box in!!!!! 3 deaths...........so long Souls, i held so many of you 8(. I don`t know whether to lock on to his ankles or keep the camera free moving? Any thoughts chaps on your best method?

Yemeth

23-Oct-2009, 19:58

Last night I was Level 56. ^_^ Went to farm @ 4-* and forgot about the game's mission. H

I'll be more careful with spoilers. xbd and you sound like "free and easy" adventurers. Would love to hear your lore some day -- when you survived them :-P. Good luck !

Darn, I see the spoilers when quoting you :) . Anyway, on B3D spoilers are really no problem, you all are great... Doubt that I will be able to finish the game without help...

56? You are good! I hoped you're level 20 or so, don't know that I will be able to catch up -10 lvl to you, even with my legendary "no life" value.

What tactics do you use? Up close and personal? Magic? Mixture of both?

Thanks again for your help and everything!

P.s.: As I thought my order was lost 100%, I'm now bidding on an Ebay item, so I could end up with two Deluxe editions, talk about being persistent.

patsu

23-Oct-2009, 20:41

Darn, I see the spoilers when quoting you :) . Anyway, on B3D spoilers are really no problem, you all are great... Doubt that I will be able to finish the game without help...

56? You are good! I hoped you're level 20 or so, don't know that I will be able to catch up -10 lvl to you, even with my legendary "no life" value.

Ha ha, level 56 only means I'm hardworking, not necessarily talented. The initial levels are easy to raise, so you should be able to level up faster than me. I don't get a lot of play time too.

What tactics do you use? Up close and personal? Magic? Mixture of both?

:(

Usually I stay far far away from the action. That's why I have a strong Compound Long bow, and also level up my Magic stats. I melee only against 2 enemies at any one time, at most. Most of the time, it's 1-to-1. I have been preparing for PvP just in case. Apparently, I don't have the mental toughness yet. :-P

Thanks again for your help and everything!

No prob man. Glad to see another DS player.

Carl B

23-Oct-2009, 21:22

I'm guessing the assassin you saved murdered your people ?

Yeah - but I didn't know he was an assassin of course. Hyena boy changes his talk to warning about him after you defeat the Dragon God it seems, but by that point I had already rescued Yurt, and finished the rest of Latria... so he was just back home killing folk. Then after I finally killed the Dragon God I came back, Hyena warned me about him - it seemed I lost Freke's apprentice this time as well - and then when I went to talk to him (which I had done before), he attacked me. So, I killed Yurt, and I hope that's the end of any future threat.

If the killing had progressed to include Freke, I would've flipped out! (But it would've been awesome as well) Not sure if the game would let the killings go that far though - but who knows!

By the way, that Dragon God seemed like he should've been able to handle having some lances stuck in his arms!

patsu

23-Oct-2009, 21:53

Yeah - but I didn't know he was an assassin of course. Hyena boy changes his talk to warning about him after you defeat the Dragon God it seems, but by that point I had already rescued Yurt, and finished the rest of Latria... so he was just back home killing folk. Then after I finally killed the Dragon God I came back, Hyena warned me about him - it seemed I lost Freke's apprentice this time as well - and then when I went to talk to him (which I had done before), he attacked me. So, I killed Yurt, and I hope that's the end of any future threat.

I believe you have triggered a new sidequest. New NPC should already entered the scene openly.

If the killing had progressed to include Freke, I would've flipped out! (But it would've been awesome as well) Not sure if the game would let the killings go that far though - but who knows!

By the way, that Dragon God seemed like he should've been able to handle having some lances stuck in his arms!

Lucky you, I think he's capable of more. Rolf N and others who have completed the game would know more.

Yeah... I saw the video, and indeed the lances must be enchanted/cursed somehow.

I like the game because in some sense, it's very true to life even though the setting is fantasy. You need to fight and run like a backstreet fighter (There is no engagement or player protection rules), you cannot always trust the people you meet. you need to respect others or you won't get what you want, you cannot rely overly on an advantage, you need to face and manage your fears, etc. etc.

PARANOiA

24-Oct-2009, 03:04

My Deluxe Edition finally arrived today! I love the PS3 being region free. :)

OK, so any tips before I start, bearing in mind I have kept a total media blackout on this title? Just things you wish you knew before you started would be great.

Cheers

patsu

24-Oct-2009, 03:13

Be Brave. T_T

... and be patient. I think total media blackout may not be advisable for this game. Even if you have seen what to do, doesn't mean you can do it or have to do it the same way.

BTW, I finally got killed by a Black Phantom after 2 more encounters. I was defeated when experimenting with magic (Too slow and clumsy for me). Got backstabbed. This guy at least knew what he's doing so the fight was interesting. Now running free as a Soul... Hurrah !

Yemeth

24-Oct-2009, 10:45

One dumb newbie question:

I died my second time (first time I died after the tutorial, now I died behind the dragon fire killed by some mobs because I rushed in panic fearing the dragon breath pattern will change). Now, do I need to save Ostrava again, as I asume everything is reset? I saw that he had quite some problems fighting certain NPCs so I helped him, can he die?

Again, I am really impressed with the game so far...

BTW, patsu, I am also a from afar player, usually, so I´ll try the hunter and royal today...

patsu

24-Oct-2009, 15:54

Yes, you have to save him every single time :(

If he gets killed, he'd drop a key to a sidequest. If he lives, you'll see him later. Everytime you save him (in different level), he will give you a valuable gift.

My Ostrava got killed in 1-1 because I thought he could handle the crowd. When he dies, you need to get the key. Otherwise it's lost forever.

EDIT:
PARANOiA, another word of advise. Be careful with NPCs. You must not take them for granted. Sometimes, you may see them in the wild (after you met them in the Nexus). I accidentally shot one from far, thinking that he's a Black Phantom. He never forgive me. Tried to kill me every time I ran past him. Eventually he just left. That guy sells some exclusive and very useful item. Now I have to carry on with the game without him, making the game more difficult. Fortunately, I think I over-levelled. :)

Carl B

24-Oct-2009, 19:48

I've obviously completely messed up the story and NPC experience in my game, this much is for certain. I adventure around without meeting anyone anymore, except for two certain guys. Too much emphasis on certain areas and not enough on others earlier in the game? Well, time to see if I can bring some demons to justice.

Antan

24-Oct-2009, 20:19

specwarGP2

24-Oct-2009, 22:59

I really like this game but the lock on is starting to get frustrating. sometimes I'll be right in front of an enemy and it wont lock on so I have to back up and go forward to try to lock on. Other times I'm looking right at an enemy and it locks on to someone behind me... wtf makes playing a magic user that much more difficult because the sketchy lock on. Also using R3 to lock on was a terrible idea. If the game let the butttons be user configurable it would make things so less frustrating.

patsu

24-Oct-2009, 23:02

Haha, finally beat that Tower Knight turkey!! I tried a different tactic other than the going for feet 1st etc etc. All i did was take all the arrow guys out, then just stayed above (in any of the 2 corners) and hit him repeatedly with my Soul power (the blue one, that you start with ..royalty class). As he was leaning back to strike me with his rather hefty looking lightsaber, he leaves his head open! Thats it, did it 1st time....................never once lost any health, and can any mod please spoiler all this as im unawares how to do it....................8(.

That's how I did it too. ^_^

I really like this game but the lock on is starting to get frustrating. sometimes I'll be right in front of an enemy and it wont lock on so I have to back up and go forward to try to lock on. Other times I'm looking right at an enemy and it locks on to someone behind me... wtf makes playing a magic user that much more difficult because the sketchy lock on. Also using R3 to lock on was a terrible idea. If the game let the butttons be user configurable it would make things so less frustrating.

That's why I don't fight several guys at once. In 2-*, I usually don't kill the miners. It made the game more difficult because the lock-on would swing me around and target them instead.

I had to press O to leap back a few times, until they are out of range. Or shoot enemies from far to lure them to me. It's a limitation of the game for sure. But I have learned to live with it. Sometimes I swing without lock-on (when enemies are in front).

Right now, I am getting pulverized by the Dragon God. Couldn't destroy the obstacles in time. I think I will try to two-hand my falchion to increase the damage. The shield is useless at this point anyway.

I got as far as the last stage, but didn't know his breath was lethal. A Blue Phantom sacrificed himself to distract the dragon, so that I could make it that far. I felt stupid and apologetic after getting killed so trivially at the last minute. :(

EDIT: Oh yes, 2-* was Pure White. So... I got the Dragonbone Crusher (Yay !)

specwarGP2

25-Oct-2009, 00:04

EDIT: Oh yes, 2-* was Pure White. So... I got the Dragonbone Crusher (Yay !)

I've been reading about world tendency on the demon's souls wiki, but I'm a little unclear on something. Getting pure black seems easy enough, but how do you get pure white? I want the platinum trophy!

patsu

25-Oct-2009, 00:11

I am unclear too. The world is supposed to turn 60% (?) whiter when you kill a boss (or the dragons I think). Someone mentioned that killing a boss as a Blue Phantom will shift your world whiter too but I am not sure if it's true.

However when I'm online, my WT is affected by all the players collectively. I checked my WT before every game. If it's Pure White, I'd rush there to see if I can complete any sidequest.

For Pure Black, I think it's easier to do it offline.

Rolf N

25-Oct-2009, 16:17

Killing a boss shifts world tendency towards white.
http://demonssouls.wikidot.com/world-tendency

Spoilers start halfway down the page, might want to stop reading at the "Getting Pure White World Tendency in offline mode" heading.

Weird unpredictable changes will happen while playing in online mode.

Carl B

25-Oct-2009, 21:07

What I am not clear on is what pure white looks like; some of my areas are fairly white - but are they pure white? I don't know. Don't know how bright that light can get!

On the side, I did manage to salvage some more NPC's into my game - the early massacre didn't claim them all it seems.

patsu

26-Oct-2009, 05:54

What I am not clear on is what pure white looks like; some of my areas are fairly white - but are they pure white? I don't know. Don't know how bright that light can get!

Yeah... you'll need a Pure White example before you can recognize it. A Pure White level is sparkling white (very bright). A regular White level is white and shiny too :(, just not as bright.

On the side, I did manage to salvage some more NPC's into my game - the early massacre didn't claim them all it seems.

I'm still trying to find that heavy arrow chap I hurt. :|

EDIT: Picture of a Pure White archstone here:
http://demonssouls.wikidot.com/world-tendency

Don't read the text if you're afraid of spoilers.

specwarGP2

26-Oct-2009, 11:36

pure black is easy to get. I tried to get the NPC black phantom scirivr (sp) to appear in 2-2 by making the world pure black but he never showed up and since I was playing online the world eventually reverted back to neutral.

Carl B

26-Oct-2009, 15:21

Specwar you're killing me here - spoiler tags for anything and everything related to the game! :razz:

patsu

26-Oct-2009, 16:25

Ha ha, specwarGP2, I think the general recommendation is to do Pure Black WT offline. Online sways the WT to White too often since bosses and black phantoms get killed all the time.

specwarGP2

26-Oct-2009, 18:50

Specwar you're killing me here - spoiler tags for anything and everything related to the game! :razz:

Whoops sorry about that. Didnt think that was a spoiler since tendencies and events tied to them really arent explained by the game at all.

Antan

26-Oct-2009, 22:14

Armor Spider in the bag! 1st time also.................No, i did not Youtube it beforehand.............honestly!

patsu

26-Oct-2009, 23:45

Heh heh, I Youtubed it beforehand alright. But I beat it using my own cheesy way. :twisted:
[hugs Compound Long Bow + 3]

specwarGP2

27-Oct-2009, 03:08

I used soul arrow and water veil to beat the spider boss. It was surprised how easy it was.

patsu

27-Oct-2009, 07:01

YESS !! Finally beat the 2-4 archdemon, Dragon God, alone. Hold my weapon with 2 hands, watch the dragon's head and eyes, then sprint when it's not looking !!.

specwarGP2

27-Oct-2009, 11:44

where do you guys farm souls? I know of the places in the DS wiki, but my character isnt strong enough to make farming those areas efficient (too weak, takes forever).

patsu

27-Oct-2009, 17:13

What soul level are you at now ?

4-* are the best areas for farming. Period.

The skeleton warriors may be a pain in the butt initially, but you should be able to manage after some practice.

EDIT: Note that I haven't tried 5-* yet.

specwarGP2

27-Oct-2009, 19:53

I'm level 41 and I have beaten bosses up to 1-2, 2-2, 3-1.

patsu

27-Oct-2009, 20:05

Yeah, then you can go to 4-1. I went there right after beating the 1-2 boss.

Carl B

28-Oct-2009, 12:24

Beat the game yesterday - good times. Replayed 1-1 with two phantoms with me; fended off three invasions and rocked the entire level from beginning to end. Enemies are definitely much harder on the next play through! Also decided to read as to why I felt I never had the locked doors situation under control in 1-* during my first play through... left me fairly frustrated! :razz:

Especially since I had thought of going through certain levels again all the way through on a detective mission but never got around to it. Ah well. I'll be taking stabs at the second play-through now and then and starting up a new game as well with a different character focus. But for no wiki and no anything else, I give myself high marks on the things I did find.

Awesome game.

patsu

28-Oct-2009, 16:46

I'm amazed you could complete the whole game without external references.

How did you figure out boss soul weapon forging ? The process is hit and miss since you need to talk to Blacksmith Ed multiple times.

Also, did you do the Mephistopheles side quest ?

Which locked door in 1-1 ? The one behind the Red-eyed Knight ? or the one with Biorr ?

Carl B

28-Oct-2009, 17:15

How did you figure out boss soul weapon forging ?

Every major Soul says in the description can be used for spells, weapons, miracles... so it was just a matter of my constantly checking all three avenues after getting each one. Though Miracles as you know wasn't an option for me until much much much later. Wasn't Boldwin, so had to be Ed.

Also, did you do the Mephistopheles side quest ?

Nope. Even now I don't know what it is (Don't tell me!) - all I got was a reference to him when Yurt decided to step to me. Of course that was when I started posting that I felt my NPC situation was seriously deficient.

Which locked door in 1-1 ? The one behind the Red-eyed Knight ? or the one with Biorr ?

Any and all as far as I'm concerned. I ran around 1-3 forever trying to use the iron key, then I ran around 1-1 trying to use it. I was going to run through 1-2 but just finished the game. Now on playing through 1-2 again I think I see the pertinent door. Hugely aggravating because I was trying to find people wherever I could. I kept seeing their pictures show up on loading screens afterall!

I definitely did not accomplish a single side quest so far as I can tell this play through. But, I give myself high marks on finding items. I was combing through that Valley of Defilement and Latria especially like no other. Of course, I love the in game hint aspect as well.

I did look up 'iron key' after I finished the game because I was so baffled - alas I learned more than I had wanted to! But I'll keep exploring and such and just see how many/much more I wish to play in that mindset. Then I'll just read through everything one day in the wiki and grade myself as well as go grab anything I want to experience.

patsu

28-Oct-2009, 18:33

Nope. Even now I don't know what it is (Don't tell me!) - all I got was a reference to him when Yurt decided to step to me. Of course that was when I started posting that I felt my NPC situation was seriously deficient.

Jeebus... I thought I am patient (I am !). But you definitely far far surpass me in this attribute.

Good luck to your sidequests. I think Demon's Souls is tailor made for people like you. :twisted:

Even now at level 61, I am scouring for all sorts of DS quest and build info from everywhere online. ^_^

Yemeth

29-Oct-2009, 17:04

patsu

29-Oct-2009, 18:50

Carl B, You finished the game without any help?! I am impressed. The only real thing I read about is the weapon upgrading (and about the Tower Knight, it did not help; killed him with the wimpy "soul arrow" from afar, as I lost my nerves after x mistries, even made new chars to learn how to kill him in melee. :)

Yes, I was going to file his case under "Nut Job" but he's too nice for that treatment. ;-)

Currently I am scratching my head how to kill the Dragon God, wimped out two times with Evacuate after I did not found any tactic.), but I am still totally lost. Yesterday evening I upgraded my Brushwood shield instead of the HP regen one, think I made a big mistake (spent my only colorless soul :( ).

The guide has tips on killing the Dragon God. It's true ! You have to watch its head and eye colors, then sprint. Also hit obstacles with both hands. One hand was too slow for me, often resulting in BBQ patsu

I am thinking of upgrading the Purple Flame Shield or the Dark Silver Shield (when I get it).

I think you can get more colorless souls if you play the Primeval demons sidequest.

patsu, I hoped I was nearer to your soul level, but I am 42 or something, so it is still to far away.

They say as we level up, our compatible level range becomes larger. e.g., At level 60 or so, the acceptable gap is like 17. So we are rather close now. I am level 62. So 3 more levels !

Anyway, fantastic game my hand trembled more than once in certain areas :) ...

BTW, this game is also an example how fantastic art direction can beat technical superiority. I like the distinctive look of the different stages much more then game x with mega engine Y, that looks almost the same from the beginning to the end. The only big flaw is that they did not make an HD install so that the loading time to at least the Nexus is much faster (for farming materials/souls).

In some cases, you can just reload the game from the menu without going back to Nexus to count as "re-entry".

Ah and a second flaw, why can´t we watch the fantastic cutscenes once we looked at the in game (unlock or similar)? My jaw fell to the flor when I saw some intros to end bosses (one in the Stonefang mines killed me because I admired it´s looks) :) .

You mean the Armor Spider or the Flamelurker ?

EDIT: I killed 2 more Black Phantoms in 3-1. Was poking around the opening area when they arrived one after another again. Funny thing is they didn't expect to see me so soon. Interrupted and killed the first one while "she" was trying to enchant her weapon in the middle of our duel.

Fought literally toe-to-toe, nose-to-nose with the second male phantom. There was no space to maneuver. Since I have a live body, I naturally have a longer health bar. Almost died because his damage was great and I was bleeding again. I am thinking of upgrading my Falchion one more time. Although I prefer to build a new weapon, like the Dragon sword + 1 I found in 2-2

patsu

29-Oct-2009, 19:19

http://www.atlus.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4901

IRVINE, CALIFORNIA -- OCTOBER 29, 2009 -- Atlus U.S.A., Inc. today passed along an ominous warning to online players of the sleeper hit Demon's Souls™ for PlayStation®3 computer entertainment system.

"Early reports from the Kingdom of Boletaria indicate that the Old One's power grows," announced Aram Jabbari, Manager of PR and Sales for Atlus, shuffling awkwardly under the weight of his full set of fluted armor. "We've discovered that the nefarious Demon will seek to descend the land in pure blackness on All Hallow's Eve. His minions will be more powerful, but the rewards for those who seek to challenge them will be greater as well. We don't know how long this dark tendency will last, but we do advise those prone to controller-into-LCD syndrome to proceed carefully." Jabbari then cackled as he quickly put a Thief's ring on his finger and disappeared.

Time to figure out which sidequest(s) you want to do !
And what stones you're missing. The monsters are more generous in Black Tendency.

Yemeth

29-Oct-2009, 19:22

patsu, yes, I believe you about the tips for the boss where I am stuck now, but I want to find it out by myself, altough I fail to see how can I manage to do anything than being an meat tootpick for him. :) Altough, as my main char was/is a Knight the metal armor can be useful for cleaning his teeth of those pesky adventurers. If I do not kill him in the next few tries, I will read your spoiler.

I think I have the Purple Flame Shield already, very useful against those proximity lights in 2 - * and against the Flamelurker. BTW, the Flamelurker intro was the one what got me, I killed the spider on the first try, he did not liked my enchanted +5 Scimitar. The Flamelurker wiped the floor in the first try, killed me with two-three hits, I thought he is the thing/danger that Ed etc. mention (until I saw the Dragon God!). With the shield from the Dragon´s on 1-1 he was manageable. BTW, the Dragon´s never dissapeared even though Miralda´s dungeon appeared?! Died 1-2 times while trying to get all loot from the dragons, there is still something left... Will never get the tendency system..

Thanks about the info of your soul level and how it works. If we come near, we need to play something we both already know together (maybe help each other farm something?). Then later when we learn some teamwork even try something new :) .

Where can you re-load while farming? Do you have an example?

BTW, I upgraded the Dragonsword to +3 or +4 and those "normal" skeletons in 4 - 1 are killed in one strong hit or two normal ones :D , altough I invested mostly into strenght and endurance (both at about 26)..

Yemeth

29-Oct-2009, 19:26

http://www.atlus.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4901

Time to figure out which sidequest(s) you want to do !
And what stones you're missing. The monsters are more generous in Black Tendency.

Wow! Now I just need to write down Halloween in my calender or I will forget about it :) . I am completely lost now, so if I try to get WT everywhere (I imagine that is what a "good" character would try), they will revert these settings?

Sidequests? I can only remember two, Graverobber wants that idiot patches dead and I need to save Freke. Think I will play as I think it fits and leave the perfectionism for the 2nd playthrough...

I think they should make an T-Shirt with the slogan "I play Demon´s Souls, but don´t know anything about World tendency!", I would buy it right away :) .

Thanks for all those very useful infos!

patsu

29-Oct-2009, 22:00

patsu, yes, I believe you about the tips for the boss where I am stuck now, but I want to find it out by myself, altough I fail to see how can I manage to do anything than being an meat tootpick for him. :) Altough, as my main char was/is a Knight the metal armor can be useful for cleaning his teeth of those pesky adventurers. If I do not kill him in the next few tries, I will read your spoiler.

I spent all 27 full moon leaves fighting against the Dragon God. Came back all broke (Zero souls to spend). Had to re-farm in 2-*. In the process, I collected enough special stones to upgrade my bow further. :-)

I think I have the Purple Flame Shield already, very useful against those proximity lights in 2 - * and against the Flamelurker. BTW, the Flamelurker intro was the one what got me, I killed the spider on the first try, he did not liked my enchanted +5 Scimitar. The Flamelurker wiped the floor in the first try, killed me with two-three hits, I thought he is the thing/danger that Ed etc. mention (until I saw the Dragon God!). With the shield from the Dragon´s on 1-1 he was manageable. BTW, the Dragon´s never dissapeared even though Miralda´s dungeon appeared?! Died 1-2 times while trying to get all loot from the dragons, there is still something left... Will never get the tendency system..

The dragons should disappear and Miralda's dungeon should open if the world is pure white. Did you fight her ?

Thanks about the info of your soul level and how it works. If we come near, we need to play something we both already know together (maybe help each other farm something?). Then later when we learn some teamwork even try something new :) .

Yap ! Would be ideal to go after the in-game Black Phantoms to get their equipments.

Where can you re-load while farming? Do you have an example?

I haven't tried it yet. Only read it elsewhere. But I know someone who used it to fight the 3-4 boss.

BTW, I upgraded the Dragonsword to +3 or +4 and those "normal" skeletons in 4 - 1 are killed in one strong hit or two normal ones :D , altough I invested mostly into strenght and endurance (both at about 26)..

Yeah... I am trying to level up my strength and endurance to carry better weapons. However I also spend some on dexterity for the bow.

patsu

29-Oct-2009, 22:05

Wow! Now I just need to write down Halloween in my calender or I will forget about it :) . I am completely lost now, so if I try to get WT everywhere (I imagine that is what a "good" character would try), they will revert these settings?

Yeah, I think they will force all worlds to black. So it will screw up your white world tendency.

Sidequests? I can only remember two, Graverobber wants that idiot patches dead and I need to save Freke. Think I will play as I think it fits and leave the perfectionism for the 2nd playthrough...

There are a lot. I think 3-1 may be worthwhile for beginner-intermediate players. World 5 may be too scary to go in pure black.

I think they should make an T-Shirt with the slogan "I play Demon´s Souls, but don´t know anything about World tendency!", I would buy it right away :) .

Thanks for all those very useful infos!

I'm still trying to figure things out too.

specwarGP2

30-Oct-2009, 02:53

Patsu, why did you need to eat grass 27 times to beat that boss? I thought he was actually pretty easy to beat, and I dont think I even used grass once.

patsu

30-Oct-2009, 03:28

Because at first I couldn't clear the obstacles in time, and would get punched to death. Sometimes I narrowly escaped its fists, and had to take a full moon glass to recover.

I also memorized his moves, which was not that reliable when I changed my "attack" pattern. Once I figured out how it detected my position, the fight became easier.

Just cleared 3-1 this evening. Another 3 Black Phantoms killed. One of them was wielding the Dark Silver Shield. Too bad I couldn't grab it from him. This time, I managed to use regular arrows and magic to hurt them. Two of them throw magic back at me though.

I suspect my Thief ring made it hard for them to see me. I am not that great in melee. One of them literally ran straight into me along a long, narrow corridor. Under normal circumstances, he should be able to see me and avoid my arrow.

2real4tv

30-Oct-2009, 03:45

My copy is still waiting on backorder in Best Buy land :(

patsu

30-Oct-2009, 03:54

Where do you stay ? Can't you cancel the order and get it elsewhere ? I saw 20 copies total in Fry's Electronics and GameStop.

specwarGP2

30-Oct-2009, 04:03

2real4tv

30-Oct-2009, 05:38

Where do you stay ? Can't you cancel the order and get it elsewhere ? I saw 20 copies total in Fry's Electronics and GameStop.

No I took advantage of the buy 2 get one free at BB. They don't have any copies within a 60mi radius. By the way I live in upstate NY.

patsu

30-Oct-2009, 15:41

You must have a lot of health to be able to survive a punch!! Once I got hit I was dead. took me about 7 tries to figure out his pattern, and after that I thought jeebus he's really easy. 1-4 boss on the other hand... he's really tough!

Ah... it's just that occasionally, I got caught in between his knuckles or his fists. So they were not direct hits. I think no one can survive his punches.

Yes, 1-4 seems like the hardest boss from what I hear. I will most likely tackle him with 2 Blue Phantoms.

oramay

31-Oct-2009, 01:38

I reached New Game+ a few days ago but I think I'll give it a rest for now. Doing all the world and character tendency stuff in first game cycle is very viable if you're willing to read guides. Apart from world 5, especially 5-2, I mostly enjoyed my time with this game. Probably will go again next year. Hopefully, the Asian servers will still be alive when I come back.

... 1-4 boss on the other hand... he's really tough!

1-4 was the final boss fight I did. Before I went into the fight myself, I helped others fight him as a blue phantom to see what it's like. I actually thought it's not difficult and quite a fun way to earn souls if you have 2 to 3 people hitting him, distracting him when you eat grass etc. Earned quite a lot of souls from beating him a few times this way. However, the fun was shattered when I was apparently summoned twice in a row by people in New Game+. He was much harder on those occasions. Only succeeded once in helping New Game+ players, and had 5 levels or so sucked out of me in the process. I was around level 100 at the time and each level cost something like 65k. :sad:

After that, I just went on to finish my own game not by fighting like a warrior but using Poison Cloud instead. Just wait behind a wall until he comes near and turns his back. I was using both thief ring and Hide. Sneak up stairs slowly and poison him. Repeat when the poison wears off. He doesn't react to Poison Cloud at all. :wink: I was eating when I fought 1-4 boss in my own game. :lol:

patsu

31-Oct-2009, 06:52

1-4 was the final boss fight I did. Before I went into the fight myself, I helped others fight him as a blue phantom to see what it's like. I actually thought it's not difficult and quite a fun way to earn souls if you have 2 to 3 people hitting him, distracting him when you eat grass etc. Earned quite a lot of souls from beating him a few times this way. However, the fun was shattered when I was apparently summoned twice in a row by people in New Game+. He was much harder on those occasions. Only succeeded once in helping New Game+ players, and had 5 levels or so sucked out of me in the process. I was around level 100 at the time and each level cost something like 65k. :sad:

How much does the 1-4 boss drop when you kill him ?

After that, I just went on to finish my own game not by fighting like a warrior but using Poison Cloud instead. Just wait behind a wall until he comes near and turns his back. I was using both thief ring and Hide. Sneak up stairs slowly and poison him. Repeat when the poison wears off. He doesn't react to Poison Cloud at all. :wink: I was eating when I fought 1-4 boss in my own game. :lol:

Yes, I heard about that technique. I was in 1-3 saving Yuria and Biorr. Learned the Firestorm spell but the world is getting really dark. In 15 minutes time, it should be pure black.

I quit in the middle of 3-2 to go home. Trying to see if I can make it back to the office tomorrow to play the game with Yemeth (It should be Sunday his time in my evening, I think).

Also got killed finally during one of my Black Phantom encounters. I fell into the 1-3 river accidentally when flanking the third Phantom. >_< I was winning the fight too. Ah well, I don't have to worry about invading Black Phantoms in the Halloween event then.

Yemeth

31-Oct-2009, 13:11

Also got killed finally during one of my Black Phantom encounters. I fell into the 1-3 river accidentally when flanking the third Phantom. >_< I was winning the fight too. Ah well, I don't have to worry about invading Black Phantoms in the Halloween event then.

:)

I killed my first invading black phantom yesterday! I almost run into him, but it seems that certain a cloaking spell + certain anti bp ring + certain miracle do help :D (he did not see me, even when I was hitting him he was obviously very confused). Do not even know if they stack up, I had them active anyway ;) .

oramay

31-Oct-2009, 17:39

How much does the 1-4 boss drop when you kill him ?

I can't remember very well, but probably around 30k for 1st game run. It can't compete with 4-2 soul farming in efficiency though. It's more like a fun way to earn some souls when you have 2 to 3 people around level 100 going at him together. Well, at least it was fun until I was introduced to New Game+. :wink: New Game+ yield quite a lot more souls, but still at least 100k short of compensating for my loss. If I remembered my stats before and after correctly, I was sucked by his spell a total of 3 times and lost 6 levels or so in helping New Game+ players.

Apart from losing levels, in my case, I also lost a miracle slot and hence a miracle spell because my faith was decreased. Since I'd already killed the miracle teachers, I could no longer change what miracle to equip even if I push my faith back up before New Game+.

:)

I killed my first invading black phantom yesterday! I almost run into him, but it seems that certain a cloaking spell + certain anti bp ring + certain miracle do help :D (he did not see me, even when I was hitting him he was obviously very confused). Do not even know if they stack up, I had them active anyway ;) .

The wiki says those rings and miracle do stack up. People with invasion experience may be able to tell what it's like for a black phantom.

Carl B

31-Oct-2009, 20:43

Looks like the worlds are 'fairly gloomy' in my estimation, but unless I'm reading these archstones wrong, it doesn't look like the Halloween event on its own will bring your game into 'pure' black.

specwarGP2

31-Oct-2009, 22:27

Looks like the worlds are 'fairly gloomy' in my estimation, but unless I'm reading these archstones wrong, it doesn't look like the Halloween event on its own will bring your game into 'pure' black.

I'm at pure black. It does change back towards neutral if you keep playing for a while so you may need to sign out and sign back in to reset it back to pbwt.

Carl B

31-Oct-2009, 23:30

Pure black looks like pure black right? Not like dark grey archstones with visible features, yeah? If I go by images in the link Patsu provided earlier in the thread, I think my worlds are at sub-neutral... I may have missed the true 'pure black' phase of things since I only started playing later in the day.

specwarGP2

01-Nov-2009, 00:55

Pure black is almost a solid black, but you don't need pure black to get the pbwt events to occur. Last night I had pure black tendency and the archstones were much lighter than they are today.

You may want to visit 4-1 again... :twisted:

patsu

01-Nov-2009, 07:22

I only got to play for an hour or so. Family wouldn't let me go. Had to play LBP with them for the entire evening while neighbours' kids visited our place for trick-or-treat.

Got myself killed by the BP Octopus man in 3-2. He basically one-shot me.

Thanks to the black tendency, I completed my Sticky Compound Long Bow + 5, also made a Dragon Long Sword + 4, and upgraded my other gears.

Carl B

01-Nov-2009, 15:43

Unfortunately for me since I was in New Game+, I just didn't have the latitude to explore most areas - spent my time completing 2-1 (Spider is *much* harder the second go-around), which did go to pure... or at least near pure black.

I've got another game started as well with a different character emphasis, but he's tracking similarly and there wasn't much latitude for exploration. I really think it's awesome that they did this though - I feel it really reflects well on the fact that Atlus/From/Sony are cognizant that this game is a hit with the PS3 owner base. I've got my fingers crossed for eventual DLC and/or a great sequel.

patsu

01-Nov-2009, 16:19

Yap, everyone is hoping to play the level with the destroyed archstone as a DLC.

I was in the office ready to play all night, and waiting for Yemeth to wake up. Got a last minute call from home to buy dinner back despite prior agreement :-(

Damn neighbourhood kids in costumes. :twisted:
In my rush to complete the level, I got myself killed a second time. Lost all the souls collected from black phantoms, Primeval demon, etc. Not sure if those BPs will appear again if I play tomorrow.

Sigfried1977

01-Nov-2009, 16:39

I reached New Game+ a few days ago but I think I'll give it a rest for now. Doing all the world and character tendency stuff in first game cycle is very viable if you're willing to read guides. Apart from world 5, especially 5-2, I mostly enjoyed my time with this game. Probably will go again next year. Hopefully, the Asian servers will still be alive when I come back.

1-4 was the final boss fight I did. Before I went into the fight myself, I helped others fight him as a blue phantom to see what it's like. I actually thought it's not difficult and quite a fun way to earn souls if you have 2 to 3 people hitting him, distracting him when you eat grass etc. Earned quite a lot of souls from beating him a few times this way. However, the fun was shattered when I was apparently summoned twice in a row by people in New Game+. He was much harder on those occasions. Only succeeded once in helping New Game+ players, and had 5 levels or so sucked out of me in the process. I was around level 100 at the time and each level cost something like 65k. :sad:

After that, I just went on to finish my own game not by fighting like a warrior but using Poison Cloud instead. Just wait behind a wall until he comes near and turns his back. I was using both thief ring and Hide. Sneak up stairs slowly and poison him. Repeat when the poison wears off. He doesn't react to Poison Cloud at all. :wink: I was eating when I fought 1-4 boss in my own game. :lol:

I used Death Cloud. (never fought him face to face) I can deal with losing my collected souls when I kick the bucket. That's punishment enough. Losing levels ont he other hand? - Nah, f that.

PARANOiA

01-Nov-2009, 22:10

OK - I just completed 1-1. Should I be trying to work this game in order (1-2, 1-3, etc) or is the difficultly too sporadic? Is there a suggested order in order to not make me ragequit? :)

Yemeth

02-Nov-2009, 08:43

OK - I just completed 1-1. Should I be trying to work this game in order (1-2, 1-3, etc) or is the difficultly too sporadic? Is there a suggested order in order to not make me ragequit? :)

IMO, the best way to begin DS is to chant "I will die, I will die, I will die!", throw in a few "I knew it, I knew it!" when you do die. :D

Seriously, after finishing several stages I have read that the suggested order is something like world 1 and 2 first, but as I lost quite some souls buying mana regen grass and then seeing that in world 3 you can easily farm them I highly doubt these explanations anyway. You cannot enter 1-3 before killing an archdemon so your order is not doable in any case. Depending what you play you can take a peak everywhere, except 4-1 and 5-1, leave them for later.

My beginner suggestions:

-fight one enemy at the time, if there are more than one in a group, pull the nearest (check with the lock on, slowly approach and click on the lock on button) with a dagger, bow or spell
-learn to dodge or block, if you are comfortable - learn to parry (my parry ratio is so low that I have stopped it)
-upgrade your character the way you want to play (+check the weapon stats/what attributes boost them)
-watch your load (equipped and "normal"), if your equipped item load is below 50% of the max you can carry your movement/roll speed is much faster (this is the reason why my knight has currently only a leather armor with the rest fluted)
-Don't forget you can always retreat with your accumulated souls as you learned something about the level so far and can use them to upgrade
-NEVER (and I mean NEVER!) think you are though, in charge, that you'll hear the lamentation of their women; you will be chewed out and spit out (whenever I think "I think I got the hang of it!", I get my behind handed to me - last time in 1-3 when the soldier from 1-1 started to use attack which broke my guard etc.)

It really depends what you play and how you play it. Anyway, most important thing is if you see that the enemies are to hard and they laugh at all your weaponry and spells, you have not found their weakness yet. When I encountered a certain stage they laughed at everything I had, fought an normal enemy so long as a main char black phantom; until I found out that magical and flame weapons are their weakness.

IMO, most important thing is that you learn melee (even if you are a primary magic user) and that you use a weapon you are comfortable with. Do not be afraid to change tactics if your major one does nothing against the new enemy (e.g. change to ranged attack from far away, magic, different weapon with diff. damage type, different weapon type (spear/rapier et al)...).

Good luck and enjoy!