WoW PCIe upgrade...help!!

[overclocked_enthusiasm]

I currently have an antiquated P4 533 FSB AGP system at 1600x1200 that is hot, noisy and performes sub-par. It is finally time to upgrade and I have budgeted $2000 for this upgrade. Here is what I have tentatively decided upon but I wanted to get all the experts opinions here before I made any mistakes:

ALL ITEMS NEWEGG
Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 ST3500320AS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM
Item #: N82E16822148288 $119.99 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148288

EVGA 768-P2-N835-AR GeForce 8800GTX Superclocked 768MB 384-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail
Item #: N82E16814130079 $449.99 (after $50 rebate) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130079

CORSAIR XMS2 4GB (4 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model TWIN2X2048-6400C4 - Retail
Item #: N82E16820145034 $164 (after $40 rebate) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145034

Intel BOXD975XBX2KR LGA 775 Intel 975X ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
Item #: N82E16813121059 $229.99 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121059

Intel Core 2 Duo E6850 Conroe 3.0GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor Model BX80557E6850 - Retail
Item #: N82E16819115028 $279.99 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115028

SAMSUNG 245BW Black 24" 5ms DVI Widescreen LCD Monitor
Item #: N82E16824001234 $476.98 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824001234

My goals with this system are very simple...stability, biggest bang for the buck, to maximize my WoW experience at 1900x1200 with all the eye candy I can get and some basic air-cooled overclocking. I am not looking to do this on the cheap...my budget is $2000 and I will pay for performance increases up to that level.

Here are my questions:

1. Are my assumptions that WoW doesn't benefit from quad-core correct?
2. Are my assumptions that XP is still better (or as good) for gaming right now so I don't have to buy a new OS?
3. Is 4 gigs of RAM overkill for XP? If so, doesn't it make sense to pay the $82 for the exact same 2 Gigs of RAM for when I do upgrade to Vista in the future?
4. Will my current 560 W Thermaltake PSU be OK? Any advantages in upgrading?
5. Will my current Plextor PX-712A DVD/CD-ROM be OK? Any advantages in upgrading?
6. Should I get a 3rd party CPU heatsink/fan if I intend to overclock? Any suggestions from Newegg? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835118003

I am currently $190 under budget ($1810) so I have a little wiggle room based upon any suggestions I may receive here.

Thanks in advance for anyone who takes the time to read my post and help me is answering my questions.

*EDIT* Added Newegg links

[Jawed]

You haven't listed a case. What are the chances that your case will take an 8800GTX?

An 8800GTX is overkill for WoW by the way. An 8800GT would do. Might be different if you were to buy a 2560x1600 monitor :grin:

Presuming that your PSU is "old" like the rest of your system I'd say it's worth changing. It seems PSUs lose their headroom as they age (capacitor aging).

You've specified a machine that will handle rather more than WoW, so the question is, do you actually plan to do anything that'd actually justify the high spec you've gathered.

Jawed

[BRiT]

You should look at a more recent motherboard chipset such as the X38/X48 or P35. The P975 is antiquated and likely will not support the newer CPUs. You should also look at running 2 2Gig dimms instead of 4 1Gig. It's usually easier running less dimms.

[overclocked_enthusiasm]

I've got a fairly big case right now. It looks like I have about 4-5" more room in front of my x1950 Pro until I run into issues. It is a Thermaltake Xazer V WinGo V7000 http://www.shopping.com/xPF-Thermaltake-Thermaltake-WinGo-V7000-Gaming-Tower-Case

While I only play WoW these days, I wouldn't mind having extra headroom on my GPU for future games I may become hopelessly addicted to. If that means spending a little extra now, I think I am ok with that. I will look into performance differences between the two cards though.

My concern about the x38/48 is stability. My research on DDR2-1200 and DDR3 is less than encouraging. I really want to idiot proof my mobo/DRAM choices as I don't wanna monkey with voltages or timings. Can you recommend a x38/DRAM combo that is rock solid stable?

As far as power supplies go...any recomendations?

Thanks again for the feedback.

[Skrying]

WoW can dip below 40 FPS on my 8800GTS 512 at 1680x1050, no such thing yet as to much GPU in that game, and this is only at 4xAA with no other fancy settings. I would personally pick up a GT or the new GTS though simply because their value is so much better than that of the GTX's.

Second, go with 2x 2GB over 4x 1GB.

Third, go with a newer chipset. Changing voltages really won't be bad dude and you can always post back and we can walk you through if you have trouble, no issues there. Go with DDR2 over DDR3. The motherboard and chipset you picked won't go with your processor, especially so if you plan to OC. Which again, if you do why are you worried about memory voltages?

Get a new PSU. I'd grab a Corsair 750TX (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139006).

[overclocked_enthusiasm]

OK. I think I am sold on the 8800 GT after doing a bit more research. As far as the mobo goes, I agree with the DDR2 over DDR3. What about these choices:

ZOTAC ZT-88TES3P-FCP GeForce 8800GT 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail
Item #: N82E16814500006 $279.00 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814500006

ASUS P5E LGA 775 Intel X38 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
Item #: N82E16813131219 $229.00 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131219

WHICH DRAM? 1000 or 1066?

G.SKILL 4GB(2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1000 (PC2 8000) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F2-8000CL5D-4GBPQ - Retail
Item #: N82E16820231145 $114.99 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231145

GeIL Evo One 4GB(2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model GE24GB1066C5DC - Retail
Item #: N82E16820144213 $220.99 http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16820144213

I guess my only question now is which DRAM is best and stable? The more I think about this, I may as well buy another case and just sell my rig as is. Do you guys use a full tower or a mid tower case for applications like this? I have plenty room for either type of case.

Somebody let me know on the DRAM please.

[Skrying]

I'd go with the G.Skill, spending double on the RAM won't net you anything noticeable.

As for a case, the size is up to you. I think it's more important you focus on quality. I'd stick to quality brands like Antec, Lian Li, Cooler Master, Silverstone, and NZXT. Focus on cooling and silence first and foremost, plus having enough room so that you're comfortable to work in.

[overclocked_enthusiasm]

Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 ST3500320AS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM
Item #: N82E16822148288 $119.99 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822148288

CORSAIR CMPSU-620HX ATX12V v2.2 and EPS12V 2.91 620W Power Supply - Retail
Item #: N82E16817139002 $169.99 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139002

Intel Core 2 Duo E6850 Conroe 3.0GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor Model BX80557E6850 - Retail
Item #: N82E16819115028 $279.99 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819115028

SAMSUNG 245BW Black 24" 5ms DVI Widescreen LCD Monitor
Item #: N82E16824001234 $476.98 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16824001234

ZOTAC ZT-88TES3P-FCP GeForce 8800GT 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail
Item #: N82E16814500006 $279.00 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814500006

ASUS P5E LGA 775 Intel X38 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
Item #: N82E16813131219 $229.00 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131219

G.SKILL 4GB(2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1000 (PC2 8000) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F2-8000CL5D-4GBPQ - Retail
Item #: N82E16820231145 $114.99 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231145

ZALMAN CNPS9500 AT 2 Ball CPU Cooling Fan/Heatsink - Retail
Item #: N82E16835118003 $44.99 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835118003

PLEXTOR 18X DVD±R Super Multi DVD Burner Black SATA Model PX-810SA/SW-BL - Retail
Item #: N82E16827249020 $74.99 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827249020

LIAN LI PC-61 USB Black Aluminum ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail
Item #: N82E16811112025 $89.99 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112025

Under Budget!! Total $1886.89 and now I can sell my current computer/monitor as is without breaking it up. I bet I can get $400-500 for it so I am feeling pretty good about things. Any final comments about the above choices before I pull the trigger?

The only SLIGHTLY nagging issue I have is the monitor. My current is 1600 x 1200 with a 500:1 contrast ratio. The one I specced above is 1920x1200 with a 1000:1 contrast ratio. Is that difference worth it in your opinion?

[Skrying]

The size of the monitor should be fairly significant increase? You might look at the Dell 24" monitors but the Samsung and Dell are the best you're going to do in that price and it doesn't get any better till nearly triple the price.

[overclocked_enthusiasm]

Going from 21.3" to 24"...kinda forgot to mention that.

[BRiT]

If you want to spend a little bit more, consider picking up 50% more drive space with faster performance for about $35 more with the WD 750Gb SE16 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Description=750+gb+se16&x=0&y=0) in the $150-$160 range. I have one and it's faster than my 74Gig WD 10K RPM Raptors. It's significantly quieter than the Raptors too.

Also, here's a G92-based 512Meg 8800GTS for $275 after rebate: MSI GTS OC (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127325).

[I.S.T.]

You do NOT need a 620 watt PSU. That is a waste of money unless you're running a quad core system with two or three video cards.

Here are a few far better solutions for your power needs: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371006

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139003

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151033

[overclocked_enthusiasm]

Thanks for the advice guys. I did upgrade my hard drive and went with the 8800 GTS as suggested. Just placed the order and agreed to sell my old comp to a buddy for $475. I would call that a successful upgrade for a total of $1300 out of pocket.

Thanks again for your help!!!

[Skrying]

You do NOT need a 620 watt PSU. That is a waste of money unless you're running a quad core system with two or three video cards.

Here are a few far better solutions for your power needs: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371006

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139003

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151033

I once thought the same as you, but you're looking at this the wrong way. Though a smaller power supply will certainly handle the load, it'll be under much greater stress and the fan will be cranked up half the time. So for anyone even moderately concerned about noise going with a greater power supply than needed is very wise. The above PSU you listed also don't offer the greatest price to performance ratio. Also, a power supply under stress that's near it's load is almost never running as efficiently as it could be.

[I.S.T.]

He won't be anywhere near stressing those PSUs, though.

Here's an article to show what I mean: http://www.silentpcreview.com/article28-page4.html

True, it's using older hardware, but the P4s draw more power than a Core 2 Duo will. The X1950XTX will draw more power than an 8800 GTS as well.

[Bludd]

That Corsair PSU is top notch. Well worth the money.

[Skrying]

He won't be anywhere near stressing those PSUs, though.

Here's an article to show what I mean: http://www.silentpcreview.com/article28-page4.html

True, it's using older hardware, but the P4s draw more power than a Core 2 Duo will. The X1950XTX will draw more power than an 8800 GTS as well.

The system he has above will be drawing near 300W~ at load and idle at 200W. Anyone who recommends a 300W unit for a 250W maximum is simply out of their mind, that PSU will be screaming load nearly entire time. Want personal proof? I have a 450W unit powering my system, I recently purchased a 8800GTS 512MB. After putting it in I was wondering "Surely it's not that much louder than my X1950 Pro." and come to find out it's not. After running a stress test on the entire system the video card was still relatively quiet, the real cause? The power supply. It was being stressed and causing a massive (literally at least 3x times the volume by my ears) increase in noise levels. I can't live with that. I've done this test in a game, even moderate ones like WoW for example, and the same evidence and conclusion comes up each and every time. So I will be purchasing a overspeced PSU from now on.

The reason why I picked the 750 unit from Corsair was because it's currently priced the exact same as the 620. Hell, I think it's even $10 cheaper because it's on sale.

As much as I like SPCR I will trust my own personal experiences over theirs every time. I can prove mine and have experienced it and know first hand.

[digitalwanderer]

That Corsair PSU is top notch. Well worth the money.
QFT. I picked up the same exact one the end of last year and I got no regrets. It totally took the PSU out of the equation for trouble-shooting/OCing, it just works bloody fantastic.

I will never, ever again go with a cheap PSU. :yep2:

[I.S.T.]

The system he has above will be drawing near 300W~ at load and idle at 200W. Anyone who recommends a 300W unit for a 250W maximum is simply out of their mind, that PSU will be screaming load nearly entire time. Want personal proof? I have a 450W unit powering my system, I recently purchased a 8800GTS 512MB. After putting it in I was wondering "Surely it's not that much louder than my X1950 Pro." and come to find out it's not. After running a stress test on the entire system the video card was still relatively quiet, the real cause? The power supply. It was being stressed and causing a massive (literally at least 3x times the volume by my ears) increase in noise levels. I can't live with that. I've done this test in a game, even moderate ones like WoW for example, and the same evidence and conclusion comes up each and every time. So I will be purchasing a overspeced PSU from now on.

The reason why I picked the 750 unit from Corsair was because it's currently priced the exact same as the 620. Hell, I think it's even $10 cheaper because it's on sale.

As much as I like SPCR I will trust my own personal experiences over theirs every time. I can prove mine and have experienced it and know first hand.

Seems I was wrong. >.>

FWIW, though, the second part of that page still applies. Choosing a 750 watt PSU will wind up costing you money in the long run due to PSU efficiency problems... >.>

[BRiT]

Most quality PSUs have the same efficiency across the entire range.

http://www.corsairmemory.com/_images/charts/tx750w_efficiency.jpg

http://www.corsairmemory.com/_images/charts/tx650w_efficiency.jpg

[overclocked_enthusiasm]

Quick question for you gents:

There is a setting in the BIOS "DRAM Frequency" on the Asus P5E x38 mobo that needs to be changed if I install DDR2-1066. Since the memory that I purchased is DDR2-1000 should I overclock it to 1066 and use this BIOS setting? If yes, do I just change the frequency from 500 to 533 at the same voltage?

*edit* Reading thru the Newegg reviews it seems that this is stable at 1066 5-5-5-15 at 2.0-2.1 v. Once I get the BIOS fired up next week I'll have a better idea how to get this setting.

[Blazkowicz]

you'd better use XP 64bit with 4GB ram.

[overclocked_enthusiasm]

Why? I understand the motherboard will only recognize 3.0-3.5 gigs or DRAM. Does this cause compatability or stability issues? If it does, I can just use (1) 2GB stick of DRAM on the board according to what I know about the mobo.

If you had to buy an OS for gaming...specifically WoW...what would you choose and why?

Thanks for the help.

[Skrying]

I can't tell a difference between WoW on XP 32 vs Vista 64, so there you go. System is almost identical performance wise to the one you've just purchased.

[overclocked_enthusiasm]

I decided to go cheap...XP Home 32 OEM. Once some compelling 64 bit titles come out or Vista SP1 is OMG...then I will switch.

Does this make sense to anyone concerning the max readable RAM limits of 32 bit OS?


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How To: Set the /3GB Switch

Even if you don't have 3 GB or more of memory, the /3GB switch can still help XSI get more memory to use and allow XSI to allocate larger contiguous blocks of memory. This can help, for example, if you are trying to render large images.


To add the /3GB switch as a separate boot option:



Click Start, right-click My Computer, and then click Properties.
Click the Advanced tab.
Under Startup and Recovery, click the Settings button.
Under System Startup, click Edit to edit the BOOT.INI file.
Find the current boot entry, which typically looks like this:

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /fastdetect

Copy this line and paste it at the end of the BOOT.INI file, and change it along these lines:

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional 3GB Switch" /fastdetect /3GB

This lets you choose between a conventional boot entry and the /3GB boot entry. If something goes wrong when you use /3GB, you can always boot back into the original configuration.

Save and close BOOT.INI.
Click OK to close the Startup and Recovery dialog box.
Click Settings again, and in the Default operating systems list, click the new boot entry that has the /3GB switch. Then click OK.
Restart your computer to use the new profile.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Has anyone here had success with this? Any simple instructions on how to do it?

[BRiT]

There's another extensive thread on this forum discussing the 3 or 4 Gig barrier with 32bit Maximum Addressable Memory. Read it (http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?p=1017041#post1017041).

[overclocked_enthusiasm]

Final stable system settings:

E6850 3.0 GHz OCd to 3.7 GHz 1.55 Vcore with .07 vdrop under load
Asus P5E Beta BIOS 0610 with 1.41 V Northbridge
EVGA 8800 GTS 512 Forceware 169.21 670/972 OCd to 749/1049
G-skill DRAM PC 1000 set to 5-5-5-15 1T at 987MHz 2.1 V
XP Home SP3

3dmark06 score of 14444

That is like 10000 better than my old rig!!!