Resistance 2 [Archive] - Page 6

tha_con

22-Oct-2008, 19:52

They meant it well. R1 is lean and mean. Pound for pound, it provides a more intense playing experience than R2 for people who "clicked" with the style. The folks who complained are trying to get Insomniac to achieve that level of rush.

I suspect had Insomniac tuned the co-op AI, most R1 fans would be too busy playing co-op to complain. Right now from their perspective, competitive is not as rewarding and co-op is pending tune-up. So I think they are laying low, waiting to see what happens next.

I fought against betan before. He's pretty good in R1. With some practice, I am pretty sure he can excel in R2 too.

... and the new weapons. Since I couldn't aim properly now, I had to use Belllock -- the napalm launcher (?) to get my only 3 kills. Otherwise, I think my game would be 0 - 23. :oops:

See, I don't even think it's that. For every thing they changed, they added a new element of depth. Grenades don't go as far, wich forces you to get better at ranged combat (as opposed to the previous skill of 'aim cross hair, throw grenade). You move slower, and aiming is reduced while shooting, but this forces you to actually make shots that count and move tactically.

Another thing that I love with R2 is the addition of radar for EVERYONE. Chimera may be at a slight advantage with the Hybrid vision, but that's negated (IMO) with Advanced Radar.

All in all, I think Resistance 2 requires more accuracy and dedication than R1 to become a great player. There were certain things in R1 that simply allowed you to point and shoot, R2...not so much.

tha_con

22-Oct-2008, 20:04

What standards are these?

I don't really like this type of game but enjoyed R1 online. Are these standards you say are missing better than say a 60 player online death match? As far as my limited experience with FPS games go, more players is more fun to me than different types of game/matches for example.

It's like this, Resistance 2 is a big name shooter, if Insomniac Games had simply left the multiplayer as it was with Resistance 1, it would absolutely be drowned this holiday season.

Instead, they took what was popular with Call of Duty (levels, perks) and mixed that with their gameplay. They balanced out each species and gave them unique abilities that could be earned.

Then they borrowed a little from Gears of War with the blood and gore, kick it up some more.

Basically, they took things from a few games (as they did with R1) and implemented them into R2, and the end result is a great game that I think will do great and make some good money for Insomniac Games.

If it would have been R1 with more players, that would not be the case, I think.

patsu

22-Oct-2008, 20:13

As for Competitive, I hope more people play Skirmish ! it is apalling to see people playing TDM with 60 player maps :( !

Insomniac should tweak the game UI to make Skirmish the preferred game for competitive play.

See, I don't even think it's that. For every thing they changed, they added a new element of depth. Grenades don't go as far, wich forces you to get better at ranged combat (as opposed to the previous skill of 'aim cross hair, throw grenade). You move slower, and aiming is reduced while shooting, but this forces you to actually make shots that count and move tactically.

Another thing that I love with R2 is the addition of radar for EVERYONE. Chimera may be at a slight advantage with the Hybrid vision, but that's negated (IMO) with Advanced Radar.

All in all, I think Resistance 2 requires more accuracy and dedication than R1 to become a great player. There were certain things in R1 that simply allowed you to point and shoot, R2...not so much.

I kinda like co-op because it has a nice step-by-step use case. The upgrades are delivered to me piecemeal. That's why I have settled on co-op. Competitive will get more attention when I become good and expert enough.

Well... I think R2 is too big and complex though. All these options confused me (they still do). I am playing using the defaults right now. Learning the maps and weapons is the first thing I need to do.

That's why I kinda like co-op. The upgrades and options are delivered to me piecemeal. I get to learn the weapons and special capabilities one by one. Competitive game is like a buffet but I don't know what's good/bad for me yet.

tha_con

22-Oct-2008, 20:31

Insomniac should tweak the game UI to make Skirmish the preferred game for competitive play.

Well... I think R2 is too big and complex though. All these options confused me (they still do). I am playing using the defaults right now. Learning the maps and weapons is the first thing I need to do.

That's why I kinda like co-op. The upgrades and options are delivered to me piecemeal. I get to learn the weapons and special capabilities one by one. Competitive game is like a buffet but I don't know what's good/bad for me yet.

See, at first I only used the Carbine, but then moved on to the Bullseye, and later fell in love with the marksman. I absolutely LOVE the Marksman. Using the Marksman along side the Electro Static orb is absolutely glorious, a sight to see. I've raided a room solo in a Core Control match and wiped out an entire squad in a matter of seconds. Once you learn to effectively use weapons with berserks in combinations that suit you, the reward you gain from it is unmatched.

That said, my favorite map / gameplay type is still 10p deathmatch in San Fran. I think if you give Co-Op more time (unranked) and just get familiar with the weapons and mechanics for more than 10 minutes (i.e. play for an hour) you'll find it's very rewarding and balanced, and the weapons are great fun. Sending a few splicer shots into a room filled with enemies is just so...satisfying.

DJ12

22-Oct-2008, 20:32

R1 had XP and levelling up (gaining rank earning more kit to put on your solider) too to some extent so maybe COD 4 copied from R1 in the first place.

tha_con

22-Oct-2008, 20:36

R1 had XP and levelling up (gaining rank earning more kit to put on your solider) too to some extent so maybe COD 4 copied from R1 in the first place.

Yes, R1 had a rank system, but the "feel" from R1 to R2 is way different, as R2 has more in common with CoD4's system (xp popping up for shots, progression bar, etc).

Basically, in R2, when you see that progression bar is half full, you're more tempted to get in and play it, rather than trying to find the numerical value of points needed from a data screen in R1 to get the next rank and unlock a backpack. In R2, you're unlocking new items, but also new abilities in the form of berserks.

Cornsnake

22-Oct-2008, 20:44

obonicus

22-Oct-2008, 20:46

R1 had XP and levelling up (gaining rank earning more kit to put on your solider) too to some extent so maybe COD 4 copied from R1 in the first place.

Neither was the first to have xp and ranks in an FPS. BF2 had persistence, ranks, xp and unlocks too. RTCW:ET had xp and ranks, though it worked differently, and I'm sure there were others.

tha_con

22-Oct-2008, 20:58

Here is my opinion on the multiplayer. Its good but it's not great like Rfom was. I would like the walking speed increased and more hits to get a kill. And most of all I want the Carbine back to the way it was, not this pea shooter we have now. I still want to throw grenades to the other side of the map. IMO they took a wrong turn with the series, but things can still change for the better with the launch patch.

Rfom was excellent and different from most shooters. The beta for now is not. Which is a shame because there is nothing like it out there. And probably why so many are upset about the changes. We don't want another clone.

The co-op is excellent though. A few bugs here and there, but those things are all listed on myres as things that will be fixed at the release.

Well, I'll kindly disagree. What Insomniac has done, in the end, is better for the franchise, and for the company.

The minority of fans who are upset with the changes hopefully never get pleased, because I would hate to see Resistance 2 become less than a stellar game on the wishes of people who want Resistance 1 recreated with new maps.

All of the changes have improved the gameplay and depth of the game, while also making it easily accessable to more people.

Edit: Just to be clear, I don't have anything against you :) I just think it's in the best interest of Insomniac Games, the franchise, and the fans, to take this game in the direction it's headed. Having a larger community is always a good thing, and the changes made from R1 to R2 will certainly ensure that the community grows.

Shifty Geezer

22-Oct-2008, 21:55

From what you're saying, tha_con, it sound to me like you feel the fans of a more niche style should be abandoned in favour of a more mainstream game. So, if R2 becomes COD4, why would anyone play it rather than playing COD4? Pursuing the majority interest isn't the best course of action for everyone. If a Resistance type game can exist, fiscally sound, alongside a COD4 type game, why not have both? Why abandon one flavour of shooter altogether?

Note that I haven't played any of these games online, so am only arguing theories here.

patsu

22-Oct-2008, 22:31

The R2 beta still needs one last round of refinement. e.g., To some people like myself, the Carbine feels underpowered and disconnect because (I think):
(i) The sound effects seem muted/far away
(ii) I can't aim very well now [aim sensitivity tweaks]
The final game is newer than the beta, and then we have the day one patch. So hopefully they can button down these issues on time.

As for questions on uniqueness, it depends on which part you're playing. Co-op stands out extremely well and is ahead of everyone. That's why most players look past the AI issues. SP received pretty good impressions from the show floors so far. The biggest uncertainty is the competitive play.

R2 will be compared to the KZ2 beta soon when the latter goes public. I don't think Insomniac will have an easy time (with competitive maps) as I have heard very good feedback from KZ2 players.

tha_con

22-Oct-2008, 23:25

patsu

23-Oct-2008, 00:42

Well... within the same platform, consumers will need to make game purchase decision with limited budget. Competition is good for us. If we look at the monstrous scope of R2, I don't think Insomniac will lose out overall. It's just that focus can be a good thing too.

Also, slider... I got you a beta code from jstevenson on GAF. Check your PM.

RenegadeRocks

23-Oct-2008, 06:39

I think it will be better they maintain the identity of Resistance, but with a few changes. The beta can be sped up a little as it stands now, without breaking the game.

Is there an official thread at myresistance,net where one can post bugs and know they will be seen. I don't see a lot of people writing about the sliding and wall walking of bosses in the co-op.

Phil

23-Oct-2008, 07:59

The minority of fans who are upset with the changes hopefully never get pleased, because I would hate to see Resistance 2 become less than a stellar game on the wishes of people who want Resistance 1 recreated with new maps.

Sadly though, it doesn't seem (to me) to be a minority that's upset towards R2... I haven't been able to get into the beta, so I'll reserve my own judgement on the game for now, but what I've heard until now and from many, I'm very critical towards many changes Insomniac made with R2.

It might be the "2" in the title that justifyes some change, but it's still Resistance and should be. Why change something that isn't broke?

patsu

23-Oct-2008, 08:02

Is there an official thread at myresistance,net where one can post bugs and know they will be seen. I don't see a lot of people writing about the sliding and wall walking of bosses in the co-op.

I saw your post in myresistance.net. I guess you found it. :)

Cornsnake

23-Oct-2008, 11:50

Well, I'll kindly disagree. What Insomniac has done, in the end, is better for the franchise, and for the company.

The minority of fans who are upset with the changes hopefully never get pleased, because I would hate to see Resistance 2 become less than a stellar game on the wishes of people who want Resistance 1 recreated with new maps.

All of the changes have improved the gameplay and depth of the game, while also making it easily accessable to more people.

Edit: Just to be clear, I don't have anything against you :) I just think it's in the best interest of Insomniac Games, the franchise, and the fans, to take this game in the direction it's headed. Having a larger community is always a good thing, and the changes made from R1 to R2 will certainly ensure that the community grows.

I'm glad we can simply agree to disagree on matters that are more about personal taste. :)

But I'm not sure what the minority is. Myres seems to be pretty divided about it, and everyone in the clan I'm wants it to be more like Rfom. Most of them have been playing CoD4 the past year and were looking forward to R2 to provide a break from the more realistic gameplay in CoD4. I guess even a good thing can get old after a long time playing. I think R2 could still do very well if it's more like Rfom.

It's going to be interesting to see what Insomniac is going to do. With Rfom the community was always mostly agree-ing about what changes needed to be made, and Insomniac usually made changes accordingly. Now there are two very different directions the fans want the series to be headed.

tha_con

23-Oct-2008, 15:22

I'm glad we can simply agree to disagree on matters that are more about personal taste. :)

But I'm not sure what the minority is. Myres seems to be pretty divided about it, and everyone in the clan I'm wants it to be more like Rfom. Most of them have been playing CoD4 the past year and were looking forward to R2 to provide a break from the more realistic gameplay in CoD4. I guess even a good thing can get old after a long time playing. I think R2 could still do very well if it's more like Rfom.

It's going to be interesting to see what Insomniac is going to do. With Rfom the community was always mostly agree-ing about what changes needed to be made, and Insomniac usually made changes accordingly. Now there are two very different directions the fans want the series to be headed.

That's where the problem lies. You see, the community at MyRes was rather small, at least in comparison to other communities. Insomniac obviously wants to expand the community, and keeping the game nearly identicle to RFoM will not do that for them. While I loved RFoM dearly, there are more reasons than just visuals that it was not a mass market success (remember, a large amount of the sales came from bundles that were offered around Europe).

One of the key problems with RFoM's design was that it was very 'old school'.

What I *honestly* Think Insomniac should do is offer up an "Old School" mode for the small group who still want R1. Throw in weapon spawns, make those tweaks, and let them stay there instead of running around games complaining because their grenade didn't fly 500 feet.

Also, while I think this game has things in common with Call of Duty 4 (levels, ranks, custom items, "perks") I think it also has a lot of differences.

You can't see through walls, shoot electrostatic orbs, create a ring of life, turn invisible, etc. These are all things exclusive to the sci-fi universe that Insomniac has crafted, and the gameplay still remains extremely different from CoD4. You cannot really say because they adapted a few ideas here and there that the game is somewhat of a carbon copy. It's not. No where near it.

They changes they made improved the depth. R1 was basically a point and click game, except instead of point and click, it was aim and shoot. Get your cross hair over their head, and fire. No recoil, etc.

Basically, they made the game significantly more visceral, gave it more depth, and gave it a boost in scale. Those who want R1, in my opinion, should play R1. There is no doubt in my mind that R2 will be more successful than R1, and it will have nothing to do with install base, and everything to do with the appeal of the game.

patsu

23-Oct-2008, 16:37

Cornsnake, have you played co-op lately ? I think the enemies are noticeably smarter when players level up (although the bosses still have too much hit points). Have you experienced the same thing or am I imagining stuff ?

Now the regular Chimeras behave differently. They will evade more, crouch, and charge when it is opportune to do so. I have not been able to complete any 8P co-op for the past few days until yesterday (only once !). We all usually died on the hilltop. Sometimes in just one wave of attack.

The only way I could survive was to hide in the shack at the foothill when we were overrun. Had to stay there while the rest revived several times. I could get to the shack in time only because I played as medic (draining health as I ran frantically). The other possible way is to play as SpecOps but you need to setup and save your "Invisibility" capability.

I don't believe a Soldier can survive alone unless he is very familiar with the terrain and can move backwards to safety (while keeping his shield on). I tried a few times (as SpecOps) to turn my back and ran. Couldn't last for 3 seconds.

tha_con

23-Oct-2008, 17:37

My experience with Co-Op has almost generally had Hybrids and Steelheads moving around rocks, flanking, etc. If I had a capture card I would gladly make dozens of videos illustrating that. "Brain dead" enemies seem to be a glitch, because you have to remember most processing on Cell (if I remember right) is done in order, so I believe that means if one thing goes wrong, multiple things can go wrong at the same time, which seems to be the case with the AI at times (please, someone correct me if I'm wrong!!!).

patsu

23-Oct-2008, 17:55

The bosses start to move around better at higher level. So I think it's more a tuning issue. Sometimes they locked on to something else (don't know what) and tried to wander into walls. That looks more like a bug.

In-order processing does not mean the logic has to be serialized. They are different concepts. The AI issues are "regular" software problems (may be related to data availability and synchronization).

Cornsnake

23-Oct-2008, 18:03

@ tha_con. Being bundled may have helped Rfom, but 2 to 3 million sales I would still call it a success, considering there were very few PS3 out there, and Rfom was the game to get for it. I haven't seen many people not like it, but I have seen those that did like it that normally aren't interested in FPS's.

The changes might broaden it's appeal, but it could also alienate some of the previous fans. I'm sure part of the outcry right now is due to the initial shock of expecting a familiar game, but finding some different. Maybe they should give it a better chance, but I doubt that's going to happen in many cases. It's the holiday season, and there is plenty to choose from outside of R2.

An Old school mode might be something, but I doubt something like that will happen. I could end up diving the userbase to much, making games harder to find.

I would say the depth lies in a different place now. Before it was about using the right weapon in the right situation, and being able to keep your aim at a moving target while dodging bullets. Now it's much more about use the environment to your advantage, and working as a team.

I'll still need to spend some more time with the multiplayer to try everything out. I tried to find some skirmish games, but the game can't seem to find one if I try.

@ patsu. I've been playing the co-op mostly. There does seem to be a difference in chimeran intelligence between games. Sometimes they seem mindless, other times they act pretty smart. Yesterday when I died, I was immediately surrounded by three chimera, keeping the others from reviving me. Also in the beta we can unlock only a small part of what is supposed to be RPG like development. There is only 1 out of 4 extra weapons available for every class, and there should be more berserks. So I won't be surprised if they increase the intelligence against 8 maxed out players.

They should lower the hit points on some of the bosses, and maybe add a few to compensate. The fights get old always shooting the same target. Ang I think they should allow the stalker to move. Now if you move close to it and hide behind the walls on the left and right, you can hit without ever taking damage yourself.

I've been playing as the medic mostly. I seems to be the easiest class to stay alive in. You can't do much damage, but you'll wear them down eventually. And your not as dependant on the other classes, while you can support them easily. I played a little as the soldier, but it's a little frustrating if your not being constantly supplied with ammo.

Cornsnake

23-Oct-2008, 18:14

Update 1.03 is available now. Hopefully it fixed some of the issues we've been having.

patsu

23-Oct-2008, 19:10

Hmm... its probably to fix general issues like connectivity, hangs or the sliding animation. I would think they need more data to tune the AI (probably the day one patch or shortly after).

Cornsnake

23-Oct-2008, 19:49

Yeah. The only difference I could see was, before it would only show getting 1 ribbon even when you should get more. Now I can see 2 at the same time.

Spec ops is pretty fun too. Now I can finally improve my sniping.

That screen blurring when you get hit is very annoying. It keeps you from making a decent counterattack. I played some more multiplayer. I like the marksman, but I feel they should allow us to carry and pick up more weapons. There are some situations were a particular weapon could be really useful, but because your limited to 2 you'll often wish you had a different weapon, and you won't want to carry some because they're only useful in particular situations.

Cornsnake

23-Oct-2008, 21:45

Another 1500 beta keys are being given away at IGN UK.

Edit: All gone again.

patsu

23-Oct-2008, 22:14

That screen blurring when you get hit is very annoying. It keeps you from making a decent counterattack. I played some more multiplayer. I like the marksman, but I feel they should allow us to carry and pick up more weapons. There are some situations were a particular weapon could be really useful, but because your limited to 2 you'll often wish you had a different weapon, and you won't want to carry some because they're only useful in particular situations.

Agreed on both points !

The Titans got a little fix too, but not enough to make a big difference yet.

patsu

23-Oct-2008, 23:23

If anyone catches one I'm up for an EU code. I'll give it up again on the 1st because I won't be able to play for 10 days from then on (and afterwards LBP should be out). Same if I do happen to catch one, in which case I'll pass it on at that date.

Check your PM.

I found another one in my PM on GAF ^_^

tha_con, you should check out the latest podcast: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13341613&postcount=1
The Insomniac guys talked about "changes".

(I still like >2 weapons no matter what they say :-P)

specwarGP2

24-Oct-2008, 01:13

Anyone want a beta key? I already got one through Qore and just got another through PSU.

I'm not really feeling R2 multi. Maybe its because I'm too acclimated to COD4.

griffineng

24-Oct-2008, 02:37

Anyone want a beta key? I already got one through Qore and just got another through PSU.

I'm not really feeling R2 multi. Maybe its because I'm too acclimated to COD4.

If you still have the beta key available, I'd be happy to take the beta for a spin!

patsu

24-Oct-2008, 03:43

Argh, they are working on the server update now. Can't join any game.

RenegadeRocks

24-Oct-2008, 06:24

patsu

24-Oct-2008, 06:28

AAAaahhhh ! I have been trying to get in for the past 2 hours.

specwarGP2

24-Oct-2008, 07:11

If you still have the beta key available, I'd be happy to take the beta for a spin!

I cant seem to figure out how to send a private msg. send me your email and I'll forward you the email with the key.

patsu

24-Oct-2008, 08:03

The update sure made a difference in the co-op game we played last night.
1)The Titan seems a little more "intelligent" now, doesn't walk into the walll anymore, but needs to be more vicious.
2)The enemies were more in number, more aggressive, but I don't know if that was due to the patch, as the cgames are randomn everytime.
3)The gameplay felt much more frantic and fun due to the increased aggressiveness, and we had 4 titans where there used to be three earlier.

I had much more fun last night, it felt more like R1 single player due to the chaos! If it gets the speed and frantic feel of R1 SP by launch, then this Co-op will be the best thing to happen to a shooter :) !

The Titan does walk around more, the Alpha Grim is also slightly faster and more aggressive, while the regular Grims are more spread out now. It's more fun because sometimes they are everywhere (instead of all bunched up together). The Titan should try to ram us. All the grims should have better path finding.

They are heading in the right direction. Hope to see even more improvement at launch.

Phil

24-Oct-2008, 08:31

Damn you guys with beta keys! I'm so jealous! :oops:

Would love to give it a go as well. Anyone know if there are some more european beta keys being handed out or where to get one?

Patsu (and anyone else that still plays RFOM):
Do you still play a lot of RFOM? It's a bit dull - not many people online so ranked can be difficult at times and 99.9% of all custom games are one-hit-kills which sucks, so I've been playing mostly private games lately... Perhaps you'd be up one evening for a few games as well (ranked or TDM if something)?

Cheers Phil

patsu

24-Oct-2008, 09:01

Damn you guys with beta keys! I'm so jealous! :oops:

Ugh ! You should have said so earlier. I found 3 more beta code giveaway in GAF this afternoon and could have grabbed one for you. Quite a few people subscribed to Qore, pre-ordered, or received new code from PSU today.

Would love to give it a go as well. Anyone know if there are some more european beta keys being handed out or where to get one?

You can create a US account to play. That's what Arwin did. I will look out for you too.

Patsu (and anyone else that still plays RFOM):
Do you still play a lot of RFOM? It's a bit dull - not many people online so ranked can be difficult at times and 99.9% of all custom games are one-hit-kills which sucks, so I've been playing mostly private games lately... Perhaps you'd be up one evening for a few games as well (ranked or TDM if something)?

Yes, I still play R1 when R2 is down. I play only co-op on R2 now though.

The Titan down in the valley is smarter than the one in the lumber factory. It pushed us back to the top of the valley (We were squeezed into this narrow trail with 2 soldiers' shields in front to protect all of us :lol:). We were too careless because we thought it's not going to move.

Love_In_Rio

24-Oct-2008, 09:09

The next free beta code for me please...

Phil

24-Oct-2008, 09:19

Ugh ! You should have said so earlier. I found 3 more beta code giveaway in GAF this afternoon and could have grabbed one for you. Quite a few people subscribed to Qore, pre-ordered, or received new code from PSU today.

You can create a US account to play. That's what Arwin did. I will look out for you too.

Thanks Patsu! Very much appreciated! <3

I'm usually online with my US account anyway, but was under the impression that keys were locked to IP-ranges from that country? Damn, I should have tryed harder to get hold of a US beta key in that case....

My registration at GAF btw is still pending. Second attempt within 2 years for me... maybe I'm more lucky this time, I'm hearing it's quite difficult to be accepted as they get so many registrations...

Yes, I still play R1 when R2 is down. I play only co-op on R2 now though.

I'll make a note to add you then! Thanks! :grin:
PS: If you're not too busy playing R2, I'm sure I'll be online sometime this weekend for some RFOM.

Cheers Phil
/ => PSN: conceptics-US

RenegadeRocks

24-Oct-2008, 09:45

Ugh ! You should have said so earlier. I found 3 more beta code giveaway in GAF this afternoon and could have grabbed one for you. Quite a few people subscribed to Qore, pre-ordered, or received new code from PSU today.

You can create a US account to play. That's what Arwin did. I will look out for you too.

Yes, I still play R1 when R2 is down. I play only co-op on R2 now though.

The Titan down in the valley is smarter than the one in the lumber factory. It pushed us back to the top of the valley (We were squeezed into this narrow trail with 2 soldiers' shields in front to protect all of us :lol:). We were too careless because we thought it's not going to move.

That is what I meant when I said the Titan is more "intelligent" now :wink: !

The whole co-op has a fresher and chaotic feel now, based on the session I had last night! I really hope they can fine tune it into R1 SP like quality by launch :grin: !

Arwin

24-Oct-2008, 10:05

Looks like in Europe right now I can only play off-line with my (US) beta key. I guess the activation/download of the beta is locked to your PSN account, but then which server you connect to depends on your IP?

RenegadeRocks

24-Oct-2008, 10:58

I got the code from patsu, so its American, but I play on my UK account and my ps3 is Indian !

i don't think there's any restriction on the beta, I am playing since the day American beta started though I am not in America at all.

patsu

24-Oct-2008, 10:59

RenegadeRocks

24-Oct-2008, 11:12

Ya ! that happens sometimes. I wasn't able to download the patch for 3 hours as the servers were congested with all the traffic.

BTW, wish to play with you guys but the timings never match!
I have been playing with our local crowd every night, helluva fun !

betan

24-Oct-2008, 12:01

PSU -for some unknown reason- sent me a beta key. Couldn't resist of course. So I'm one of those to blame for server issues, although I didn't suffer many (only once to be exact).

Been playing only medic, lots of experience and great fun so far. Sometimes I find myself running around the map like crazy, trying to help out people who insist on going solo. Who would have known helping out others is so much fun? Especially when spec ops ignores medics, you have to alternate between attacking enemies and healing others, or when you are cornered and trying to bail out, keep attacking to survive even though you don't get the kill.

Titans have been smart enough to kill people frequently, so it's good. Stalker is dumb as it comes it seems, but 8 people trying to attack a stalker (or titan) from all directions still has an epic feeling, King Kong like epic feeling.
Best moments though, are when lots of enemies coming from everywhere, or when bosses are supported by many underlings, or the turret defense actions.

Been afraid to try out competitive mode or other classes, partially because carbine given to medic sucks so hard. I was never a fan of the carbine in R1, but at least it was useful. If medic's carbine is any representitive at all, I agree with all the complaints regarding the crosshair changes.

I also wish it was push-to-talk in coop, and free-talk with squad channels similar to R1, even though it's just 8 players. Sometimes noise and echo is just unbearable.

I will probably have many more problems with R2 but when all said and done, I expect R2 to be a big hit in the long run, if for nothing else for coop, despite mediocre reviews. It just has so much potential, not that it isn't fun now.

So tha_con (or anyone else), I better to be working for a deadline during (most of) the weekend, but I'll be free better part of today and tonight if you are up for some coop action.

upnorthsox

24-Oct-2008, 14:11

Arwin, you should be able to play (I think). The servers are getting hammered. I have to use "Find Games" instead of "Play" to get into games. In fact, I tried more than half an hour to get into just 2-3 games. :(

Today is bad because they gave out another new batch of code via PSU.

I've been having the same problems and I'm beginning to wonder if those of us in the "first wave" have been down prioritized as far as game ranked games go. If that's the case I don't mind so much since between myself, my bro-in-law, and the 10 yr olds we've certainly got our moneys worth out of this free beta, but it would be nice if they gave us a heads up. I guess though in the current bitching environment that saying anything would just cause more bitching so why bother.

tha_con

24-Oct-2008, 14:18

Played another 10 rounds last night, and really, I just can't stop praising it enough.

I guess it helps that I'm now good enough to go about 1.5:1 in every match for KDR, sometimes better. My buddy was expecting RFOM, hopped in his first game with me, got murdered, hated it. Played a few more games with me, got used to it, now he loves it. Fantastic!

betan

24-Oct-2008, 14:26

I've been having the same problems and I'm beginning to wonder if those of us in the "first wave" have been down prioritized as far as game ranked games go.
Match making didn't work me either. I didn't even know it was functional before the patch.

patsu

24-Oct-2008, 16:02

The "Play" option didn't work at first. Then it was working. Now it doesn't work anymore :(

patsu

24-Oct-2008, 17:26

R2 open beta co-op

HIK0H9Acrq4

e2qKXg0T3Lw

The player joined a game half-way.

the ignoramus

24-Oct-2008, 17:58

I dont understand why some people are getting two and three codes and I have yet to receive a thing. I bought a Qore subscription about a day before the beta began, then I spent three bucks or whatever on the August episode and I havnt received a thing. What bullshit is this?

patsu

24-Oct-2008, 18:13

Qore subscription email went out several days ago. Qore episode owners will be getting one end of the week I think. You should definitely call the Sony support number in RobertR1's post.

Some people get multiple codes because they have several accounts on gaming sites (One guy in GAF has 10 on one site alone).

EDIT: I am still trying to get more, but have failed twice already.

Cornsnake

24-Oct-2008, 22:29

Has anyone noticed if you die in the co-op and some chimera are standing next to you, one of them will be staring straight into the camera. Even following it when you move it.

patsu

24-Oct-2008, 23:11

http://blog.us.playstation.com/2008/10/24/important-resistance-2-beta-dates/

With the Resistance 2 public beta now in full swing, we wanted to make you aware of a few important dates for those in North America.

The open application process will close today at 4 p.m. PDT. If you haven’t applied yet, head to http://beta.myresistance.net/apply.

Today is not your last chance! Much like with the LittleBigPlanet beta, USA Today will be distributing (hundreds of) codes on their site beginning next Tuesday.

The download servers will shut down on Wednesday, October 29 at 5 p.m. PDT. What’s that mean exactly? You won’t be able to download the beta after this date.

We’ll be shutting down the beta servers on Thursday, October 30 at 11:59 p.m PDT. After that, you’ll need a retail copy of R2 to continue playing this first-person shooter.

EDIT:

Has anyone noticed if you die in the co-op and some chimera are standing next to you, one of them will be staring straight into the camera. Even following it when you move it.

Well, if I could get into the game more often, I might have noticed :twisted:

I really like how the Chimeras will charge into our positions now. A successful attempt would disrupt our attack, and freak everyone out. While we were distracted, some loose Chimeras would appear right behind me for the kill. It might be a coincidence (happened 2 times now) but if Insomniac can orchestrate more of these formation attack, co-op would be heaven.

Arwin

25-Oct-2008, 01:34

I haven't managed to get into any ranked games or cooperative matches yet, but plenty of large-scale competitive now though, and I'm starting to get used to the game. I still panick occasionally when I'm cornered or let myself be surprised from behind, but I'm definitely getting my fair share of kills in, and also adding some rare voice-comms to the crowd thanks to the PS Eye ;) (I look forward on meeting someone from the forum here sometime so I can get some feedback on the quality - so far playing with headphones and PS Eye works great).

It's a pretty impressive game, what with so many people running around and everything being so responsive and precise. The sniper rifle is a very important weapon though - but if you're smart, you can do a lot of things with a lot of weapons. I've specialised in the Sniper and the exploding bulltings thing that can put some fire down whereever you like, which is really useful in some maps. Carrabine doesn't really feel broken. It's still powerful. If it was more powerful before, then I'm thinking it was probably overpowered!

Takes a fair while to specialise in a weapon though. The Berserks are also fun. The experience points really are good feedback for how many hits you've done.

Initially I did a small bit of coop by myself offline, which is impossible, but I did get to witness a Titan's weakness, as I managed to kill him eventually all by myself, netting a cool 3000 experience points in the process. ;) His weakness right now is that he seems to turn around at semi-fixed points in times to cover different ground. When you're alone or all on one side of him, that looks a bit silly. You can then hide at a proper spot where you can shoot but are still protected from his blasts and as a spec-op give yourself constant new ammo. It seems that he has weakspots on his back, particularly to round metal plates that seem to net bigger hits (14xp per shot?).

patsu

25-Oct-2008, 02:39

I haven't managed to get into any ranked games or cooperative matches yet

You need to try co-op. That's the best and also longest part of the game.

Initially I did a small bit of coop by myself offline, which is impossible, but I did get to witness a Titan's weakness, as I managed to kill him eventually all by myself, netting a cool 3000 experience points in the process. ;) His weakness right now is that he seems to turn around at semi-fixed points in times to cover different ground. When you're alone or all on one side of him, that looks a bit silly. You can then hide at a proper spot where you can shoot but are still protected from his blasts and as a spec-op give yourself constant new ammo. It seems that he has weakspots on his back, particularly to round metal plates that seem to net bigger hits (14xp per shot?).

Titans are still too boring to fight against. I have faith in Insomniac though. Look forward to being chased by one.

Hybrids and the regular Chimeras are a delight to fight. They have evolved so far that I can no longer rely on my shack trick in the hills. Now they will storm into my little hut, and the Steelheads will shoot profusely to flush me out too. Just got slaughtered by 5 Chimeras this way. Need a better strategy. Help!

EDIT: They fixed match making. I can get into a game very quickly now.

patsu

25-Oct-2008, 06:22

Thanks Patsu! Very much appreciated! <3

I'm usually online with my US account anyway, but was under the impression that keys were locked to IP-ranges from that country? Damn, I should have tryed harder to get hold of a US beta key in that case....

My registration at GAF btw is still pending. Second attempt within 2 years for me... maybe I'm more lucky this time, I'm hearing it's quite difficult to be accepted as they get so many registrations...

Check your PM Phil.

I'll make a note to add you then! Thanks! :grin:
PS: If you're not too busy playing R2, I'm sure I'll be online sometime this weekend for some RFOM.

Cheers Phil
/ => PSN: conceptics-US

Will add friend request when I get into the office on Monday. My PS3 is in the office.

RenegadeRocks

25-Oct-2008, 07:50

I must have received a code too, then. Can't check my inbox in office, I will chk it out once I am home.
@patsu: The Chimera flanking us from the side and behind happened twice to our group too. I thought they spawned there, am not sure if they moved there to flank. Though, I was too busy to notice if they moved or originated behind me, but it did make my team panic and fall back :wink: !

Cornsnake

25-Oct-2008, 10:21

More R2 beta codes are being given away at www.myresistance.net in the R2 beta forum.

upnorthsox

25-Oct-2008, 10:38

You need to try co-op. That's the best and also longest part of the game.

Titans are still too boring to fight against. I have faith in Insomniac though. Look forward to being chased by one.

Hybrids and the regular Chimeras are a delight to fight. They have evolved so far that I can no longer rely on my shack trick in the hills. Now they will storm into my little hut, and the Steelheads will shoot profusely to flush me out too. Just got slaughtered by 5 Chimeras this way. Need a better strategy. Help!

EDIT: They fixed match making. I can get into a game very quickly now.

I would agree about the Titans, it'd be cool if they had a big hammer/mace in one hand and a gun in the other. They could then do rampages where they charge smashing soldiers with the hammer/mace and then after a certain distance do 360 spray.

ninzel

25-Oct-2008, 12:18

Well I finally received my beta code this morning from my Qore subscription. :grin:

patsu

25-Oct-2008, 15:28

@patsu: The Chimera flanking us from the side and behind happened twice to our group too. I thought they spawned there, am not sure if they moved there to flank. Though, I was too busy to notice if they moved or originated behind me, but it did make my team panic and fall back :wink: !

Not sure. I caught 2-3 sneaky ones in the middle of flanking us. If you play as medic, you should be able to see them because you'd be behind your own troop as well.

In the first valley, what they did was to send 1-2 soldiers to the edge of the valley and wait there (?). If you did not clear the area, the remaining Chimera(s) will shoot you from behind while you tackle the Titan's company down in the second valley. This only happened to me once (very recently).

Sometimes, they charged straight into our positions to eradicate us. The soldiers above would walk past (behind) us quietly. At least when I saw them, they didn't shoot at my comrades in front. Instead, two of them separately were heading past the choke point, towards the edge/houses.

Either way, it mixes up the gameplay quiet a bit (scripted ?). That's where all the fun starts.

The other area is the incubation/breeding center (?). The grims were everywhere; might be spawned or just scattered throughout the level.

I would agree about the Titans, it'd be cool if they had a big hammer/mace in one hand and a gun in the other. They could then do rampages where they charge smashing soldiers with the hammer/mace and then after a certain distance do 360 spray.

At that size, even if it doesn't carry a weapon, it should be able to dominate the fight. Its punch is a one-hit kill. They only need to increase its movement to a frightening speed (so it moves like a gorilla), and we'd all be dead. There are a few small hallways by the side it cannot get to though.

DrJay24

25-Oct-2008, 15:31

OPM (UK?) gave it a 9/10, if they are trust worthy.

patsu

25-Oct-2008, 15:40

I think they may take a hit because of the MP betas. There are rough edges we don't see in a polished game. Besides the scope/scale and co-op, the saving grace is Insomniac's willingness to listen to its fans, and their update speed. They have evolved a lot since the private beta.

Lucid_Dreamer

25-Oct-2008, 15:44

The "Play" option didn't work at first. Then it was working. Now it doesn't work anymore :(
It never worked for me.

patsu

25-Oct-2008, 15:46

It's been a coin throw so far.

The "Play" match making worked every time last night for me. Did you check to see if it work for you consistently too ?

Lucid_Dreamer

25-Oct-2008, 16:07

It's been a coin throw so far.

The "Play" match making worked every time last night for me. Did you check to see if it work for you consistently too ?
I usually try it about every other day. I can use the "find game" option and be in a room in just a few seconds (unless full).

DJ12

25-Oct-2008, 16:42

OPM (UK?) gave it a 9/10, if they are trust worthy.
Depends if Sony has told them to give it a good mark or not, isn't that the problem with all "official" magazines.

I'm sure it's a good game mind you, Insomniac don't make stinkers.

Cornsnake

25-Oct-2008, 17:21

More EU R2 beta codes are available on www.myresistance.net in the R2 beta forum.

Gitaroo

26-Oct-2008, 02:16

well OPM UK gave R1 like 7/10 I believe, if the extra 2 represent the improvement over the first game then its good.

patsu

26-Oct-2008, 04:11

Phhfpt, R1 is under-rated.

At this moment, R2 has an impressive foundation and framework, but there are still some outstanding issues to fix.

Smak

26-Oct-2008, 08:56

More EU R2 beta codes are available on www.myresistance.net in the R2 beta forum.

I could not find them, too late?

RenegadeRocks

26-Oct-2008, 09:55

Well, checked my inbox after quite a few days, and guess what....My R2 beta code has been lying there for the past two days :) !

So, there, I have an extra code, anybody wants it?
EDIT: I have 2 extra codes, actually. Looks like SOny sent me a code for my US as well as My EU account :)!

Cornsnake

26-Oct-2008, 10:07

I could not find them, too late?

Yes, they are gone now. You could still try USA Today on tuesday.

Edit: Looks like there are still some available later. Look for the Official beta code giveaways thread in the R2 beta forum. PM the guy your PSN name and wether you want an US or EU code. Good luck.

Lucid_Dreamer

26-Oct-2008, 10:22

The "Play" option didn't work at first. Then it was working. Now it doesn't work anymore :(
Now, it works for me. :smile:

RenegadeRocks

26-Oct-2008, 10:31

patsu

26-Oct-2008, 15:00

Now, it works for me. :smile:

That's right. They fixed it in patch 1.03.

Now the only remaining issues are co-op boss AI and competitive gunplay. Both are almost there but not quite (finetuning, tiny issues that may have big gameplay implications, etc.).

Antan

26-Oct-2008, 15:01

Any code spare would be much appreciated.

Arwin

26-Oct-2008, 15:54

I have to say, this game is effing addictive. It feels right to me now in terms of controls. I'm not the best player by far, but good enough to have fun even in competitive. ;) Some guns are a lot harder to master than others though, but that does give the game a long life I think. 58 player matches run perfect, even across continents, which is amazing.

betan

26-Oct-2008, 15:55

That's right. They fixed it in patch 1.03.

Now the only remaining issues are co-op boss AI and competitive gunplay. Both are almost there but not quite (finetuning, tiny issues that may have big gameplay implications, etc.).

I don't know what is wrong with AI, it seems to be doing what it's supposed to do.

I have mixed feelings about competitive mode right now. Played a couple of TDMs, one Skirmish, one deathmatch. Need to play more of course, but lack of weapon spawnpoints in TDM probably means less strategy. I cannot help but feel like Insomniac ignored TDM. Berserks seems OK, but I'm gonna miss real rage mode. I hope they fine tuned weapon balancing because starting with almost any weapon is dangerous. My the single biggest issue would be highly gimped tagging. :(

Skirmish was a lot fun though, especially VIP missions. Will try to play more ranked matches if the game lets me.

So, do all the berserks require same amount of exp to fill up?

patsu

26-Oct-2008, 16:02

I don't know what is wrong with AI, it seems to be doing what it's supposed to do.

The boss AI. The only one I take issue with is the stationery Stalker and (some) Titans.

In general, the Titans have improved significantly but is still lacking in sense of urgency and danger. They move around, knock people out, and fire rockets. However they seldom cause a threat to anyone, except for the champ down in the valley (He's pretty good).

To be fair, these may be level design issues. e.g., Insomniac pinned the Stalker and a few Titans down so they behaved more like turrets. There is very little the bosses can do to you. You'll see these examples if you play more. The maps have quite a few variety.

That's why I classify them as tuning now. It applies to some cases but not all. However they can be annoying in a high quality game.
My expectation for Insomniac is very high

Skirmish was a lot fun though, especially VIP missions. Will try to play more ranked matches if the game lets me.

I need to play Skirmish. Insomniac spent a lot of time figuring that one out. It is recommended over TDM.

betan

26-Oct-2008, 16:32

The boss AI. The only one I take issue with is the stationery Stalker and (some) Titans.

In general, the Titans have improved significantly but is still lacking in sense of urgency and danger. They move around, knock people out, and fire rockets. However they seldom cause a threat to anyone, except for the champ down in the valley (He's pretty good).

To be fair, these may be level design issues. e.g., Insomniac pinned the Stalker and a few Titans down so they behaved more like turrets. There is very little the bosses can do to you. You'll see these examples if you play more. The maps have quite a few variety.

I played a lot I'm afraid, to level 10 medic, level 8 spec op (to get the second upgrade, was great fun though).

I think some of them are simply level design issues, and AI cannot solve much. There is little a titan can do to give you a sense of danger. It kills quickly and walks around when possible. Plus it needs to be able to kill all 8 people at the same time, to create a real sense of danger IMO.
When the bosses are accompanied by others and/or players need to pass narrowish areas to advanced however, it can become real pain in the back.

I guess if I were designing those, I would drop at least a hybrid time to time and laugh at people complaining how difficult boss battles were.

patsu

26-Oct-2008, 16:41

I played a lot I'm afraid, to level 10 medic, level 8 spec op (to get the second upgrade, was great fun though).

That's wonderful ! Will hook up with you for some co-op games.

I think some of them are simply level design issues, and AI cannot solve much. There is little a titan can do to give you a sense of danger. It kills quickly and walks around when possible. Plus it needs to be able to kill all 8 people at the same time, to create a real sense of danger IMO.
When the bosses are accompanied by others and/or players need to pass narrowish areas to advanced however, it can become real pain in the back.

This I can agree. I don't know why Insomniac locked some of the bosses to a fixed location, or make one "standard" boss fight 8 human players. They become the glaring low points in the game -- especially when other Chimeran AI has improved drastically.

I guess if I were designing those, I would drop at least a hybrid time to time and laugh at people complaining how difficult boss battles were.

:shock: Did people really complain about "difficult" boss battles ?

betan

26-Oct-2008, 17:13

That's wonderful ! Will hook up with you for some co-op games.

Sure, which classes do you play?

:shock: Did people really complain about "difficult" boss battles ?

Nope but they would if smaller Chimera were respawning randomly during boss battles.

patsu

26-Oct-2008, 17:27

Sure, which classes do you play?

Don't really have a strong preference. It depends on the mix of the team. I generally fill in the gap.

I like SpecOps and Medic. Soldier is strong but too dependent on the SpecOp. Soldier + ample supply of grenade = Too awesome. Soldier + no ammo = Deadmeat.

RenegadeRocks

26-Oct-2008, 19:14

This is happening for the first time to me , buT I am not able to get into a co-op game for the last half an hour :( ! With so many new guys joining the beta now, shouldn't there be more games available?

BTW, both of my extra keys have been distributed now, may the recievers bask in the beta's glory :wink:!

Sovere

26-Oct-2008, 22:39

I've been experiencing the same issues as of today. It's rather strange, it always seems to happen when more people join the beta.

tha_con

26-Oct-2008, 22:44

I think some of the servers have crashed, which is why matchmaking and what not isn't functional.

Cornsnake

26-Oct-2008, 23:03

They are still making changes to the matchmaking system, which they say is causing this, and are asking people to report back on when they can't find games on myres.

patsu

27-Oct-2008, 03:16

Amazing R2 player in action:

NfF-EopAFJY

EDIT: I don't feel so bad getting slaughtered in R2 if people are that skillful.

Cheezdoodles

27-Oct-2008, 11:15

The quality of that video is beyond terrible-

patsu

27-Oct-2008, 15:11

:lol: The focus is on the player skills, not visuals. We'll probably get better ones when the game launches on 4th November.

Kittonwy

27-Oct-2008, 17:25

I played a lot I'm afraid, to level 10 medic, level 8 spec op (to get the second upgrade, was great fun though).

I think some of them are simply level design issues, and AI cannot solve much. There is little a titan can do to give you a sense of danger. It kills quickly and walks around when possible. Plus it needs to be able to kill all 8 people at the same time, to create a real sense of danger IMO.
When the bosses are accompanied by others and/or players need to pass narrowish areas to advanced however, it can become real pain in the back.

I guess if I were designing those, I would drop at least a hybrid time to time and laugh at people complaining how difficult boss battles were.

The problem is that the levels the titans are in do not allow them to move around enough to chase after players, players have to keep poking at the titans to get a response. Still I wish the enemies in general would be much more aggressive, even though they are slightly more aggressive at higher level co-op.

patsu

27-Oct-2008, 18:40

There you are. Kittonwy, I need all the good players together again to make faster progress in the co-op game. Are you guys still mad at Insomniac :-P ?

Seriously, I think Insomniac need to lobe off the first 3-4 AI levels (and then tune down their damage) to make the co-op exciting for beginners too.

tha_con

27-Oct-2008, 18:54

Insomniac Games > Kittonwy. Seriously :P

None of the GAF guy's are online, at least from what I see. I mix it up and play about 50/50 comp and co-op, and I'm surprisingly good at both (but I think that's because there are a lot of noobs in the beta). I almost always finish top 10 in competitive, and I'm usualy first or second in co-op.

Really you just have to learn to play every class they way they should be played to stay on top. Once you do that, gaining experience is extremely easy.

patsu

27-Oct-2008, 18:58

Insomniac Games > Kittonwy. Seriously :P

Hey, don't pick on us. That's not true. I know at least Tanod and BobtheFork (He competed in the R1 tournament) are on. M3freak is still complaining loudly but he seems passionate about the game.

tha_con

27-Oct-2008, 19:25

Hey, don't pick on us. That's not true. I know at least Tanod and BobtheFork (He competed in the R1 tournament) are on. M3freak is still complaining loudly but he seems passionate about the game.

haha, I'm just kidding around :P I've played games w/them, they're all great guys. I may disagree, but we're all passionate in our own ways. Just as much as M3 is complaining loudly, I'm "valiantly" defending the game and the choices Insomniac made. Sure, it seems as though I'm in the minority at this point, but I truly believe that it will all change when the game is released. People will see the light!

Just like during the private beta when everyone said that they were afraid of 60 player games with 50 snipers, and I said "it'll never happen, the game simply won't allow for it" and I was right. Sure, you may have a handful of snipers, but the pace of the game just won't allow everyone to snipe, and that much is certainly evident right now. The marksman and carbine are far more deadly and popular, IMO. It's only a matter of time until people figure out the Auger.

patsu

27-Oct-2008, 19:42

What can I say ? Great team members think alike: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13386019&postcount=7807

Played co-op last night with some of the GAF clan guys, and we saw the Chimera do things they've never done before. Most of us have levelled up to about 3, and I think I'm almost at 4. Anyway, the Chimera were rushing more, venturing out of houses, the Titans were walking around a lot more...basically, the Chimera were much more aggressive. It was cool - co-op is a lot of fun. I've loved it since the private beta.

My only gripe is that it takes a while to level up, so we didn't get to fight the more advanced AI Chimera for a while. i suppose in the grand scheme of things, it's not bad - co-op is going to take a long time to complete, after all. (I'd still appreciate it if they were tougher sooner).

tha_con, you better join in too. :twisted: Insomniac has a target for 12 co-op wins in the beta (and final game ?). I don't know what happens when we hit it. Based on the Chimera evolution so far, the last few battles will be herculean.

EDIT: I think we will need Soldiers. They are the only class that can wipe out a group of enemies fast enough. SpecOps and Medics are effective one-to-one killers but they will be overrun by the aliens.

Nesh

27-Oct-2008, 20:18

I am in the beta too now. And my question is....how do some people play so well??

I get my ass kicked. I mean, I may be shooting at someone and take ages to kill. The other guy? Just points the gun at me shoots a few times and kills me...with the same weapon I use. How do they do it?

patsu

27-Oct-2008, 20:28

Welcome to patsu's world.

This is why I am going to focus on SP and co-op in the mean time until I get better. Don't want my K/D ratio to tank further than what it is now >_<

From my own experiences, some of the players take advantage of the terrain, some have gotten used to the new weapons and can dish out headshot quickly (especially with Fareye or Marksman + the iron sight). Some beta players play in pair (1 vs 2 is impossible for new players)

Shifty Geezer

27-Oct-2008, 20:35

patsu

27-Oct-2008, 20:41

Hard to explain. Try it yourself. :)

It's not as easy as you think. The co-op trailer is probably taken by a low level player. We should be getting better videos as more beta players level up.

In its full glory, I had loose Chimera soldiers flanking us (or on the run), plus a Chimera squad hunting me down collectively, plus supporting fire from the drones, Steelheads and Titans, all within the same game. Stay in one spot I could not (except for N-vs-1 boss fights).

In fact, even if I stayed hidden (and stopped shooting), they will track me down thanks to the Steelhead's X-ray vision.

Cornsnake

27-Oct-2008, 21:29

Just like during the private beta when everyone said that they were afraid of 60 player games with 50 snipers, and I said "it'll never happen, the game simply won't allow for it" and I was right. Sure, you may have a handful of snipers, but the pace of the game just won't allow everyone to snipe, and that much is certainly evident right now. The marksman and carbine are far more deadly and popular, IMO. It's only a matter of time until people figure out the Auger.

I've seen matches where the majority of players had fareye's or marksmen's. It happens on the larger open maps. And seen people complain about it on myres.

If anyone is up for some co-op, add me to your friendslist PSN cornsnake. I've been playing co-op most of the time. I've got a level 3 soldier, a level 8 spec ops, and a level 10 medic. Those medics get really powerful at level 10. The choreform berseks keeps damaging everything you hit for it duration, taking care of large groups of chimera quickly. And I've been able take on a steelhead boss singlehandedly by dodging bullets and easily restoring any health lost.

betan

27-Oct-2008, 21:53

Patsu, yes soldier is really dependent on specops. First time I played soldier there were 4 specops and I wasn't getting any ammo. Had to kill myself often. That's why I haven't played soldier more than twice or so. I can even imagine a good medic at that situation can be really annoying. :)

I watched the GameTrailers coop gameplay just now, and the more I see, the less I'm interested. Gameplay consisted of standing there shooting of a trillion rounds, as the medic healed the player so he didn't have to dodge. I couldn't sense any...gameplay! R1 had a lot of running, shooting, hiding, etc. Just standing there firing doesn't strike me as fun. Plus everyone getting in each other's way was annoying. The should have friendly fire to deter that. Not that that'd bother anyone, as the medic would just beam some heal on them.

Depends on what class you are playing, who you are playing with and how you want to play.
A soldier is not only tank but also shield for others, so he better not be moving a lot. The specop is very weak in terms of HP, thus he has two options, support the soldier holding the shield or stay back and let the marksman speak. If he stays back, since he has little HP needs to be evasive.

A medic can almost withstand a single hybrid attack if he is also attacking someone, but beyond that he too needs to be evasive. Things get really interesting for medic when he tries to revive someone, survive, recharge the ammo and keep an eye on people that needs healing all at the same time.

Arwin

27-Oct-2008, 21:53

I watched the GameTrailers coop gameplay just now, and the more I see, the less I'm interested. Gameplay consisted of standing there shooting of a trillion rounds, as the medic healed the player so he didn't have to dodge. I couldn't sense any...gameplay! R1 had a lot of running, shooting, hiding, etc. Just standing there firing doesn't strike me as fun. Plus everyone getting in each other's way was annoying. The should have friendly fire to deter that. Not that that'd bother anyone, as the medic would just beam some heal on them.

Oh believe you me, it's some of the best fun ever! There's just so much depth in it I feel that you're not seeing right now. I once got into a group that was pretty good already, setting up different kinds of berzerk traps, and another time when I was going at it on my own, I was exploring the environment and found at least different routes to go at the enemy, one through houses, one through tunnels, one through a tube, one all the way round, and the default way over the bridge. So you can have someone sneak in, throw a few grenades, or god knows what.

Also, the depth in this game is partly in how the game scales for 2 players to 8 players. I got in a few different ones at the start (starting with 1, 3 and 5 and 7 players) and it's a wildly different affair. Right now, stupid AI or no, it's hard work staying alive and get very far, but it's a lot of fun and it does require at least half-decent cooperation, which is what it is all about. Basically, it feels like a pretty advanced version of what Gears has as the Horde mode, and it's a lot of fun to play, and there's a lot of depth in the environments.

I think that there aren't that many ways to do it differently - there are a huge amount of monsters when you're playing with higher numbers especially, and you can't have all of them come at you at once, so the difficulty is in making sure they come at you in the right kind of waves. The monsters that do come at you, do try to surround you, and you're being tricked into being surround very early on by the game level's design, which is pretty crazy and hectic.

You really have to try it to see what it's like.

I may be the only one who likes all the modes, but I loved Resistance's single player campaign, but could never get into the online stuff. But with the R2 Beta, I love all the modes, skirmish (60 player skirmish is awesome - sure there's room for more objectives, but there's a lot of room for strategy, and I love weapons like the Belkin that really offer some unique gameplay mechanics that aren't obvious or carry over that easily from other games like sniper rifles, which are much more accessible - I'm fairly adept with those). But even team deathmatch or the other modes I enjoy, the coop, and I'm sure I'll love the single-player campaign a fair bit too.

And I can't believe how good the netcode is, I've been playing with a large part U.S. people and it runs great even with 60 players from both Europe and the U.S.

I've offered patsu the beta code back, because it's too addictive and I can't spare the energy nor time! Too darn addictive.

rounin

27-Oct-2008, 22:28

I could use a code if anyone can spare one!

Cornsnake

27-Oct-2008, 22:40

I just played a game as a soldier, and I fortunately had some good teammates. It's really fun being the soldier if you got someone to back you up. And you can do much more then just killing, like helping the medic revive people closer to the frontline by clearing the way with your gun and protecting him with the shield. It's also really cool to stand right in front of a titan, and seeing him tower over you while he's slowly chasing you. Or bending back those beams from the hellfire turrets.

Cornsnake

27-Oct-2008, 22:42

I could use a code if anyone can spare one!

USA Today will be giving them away tomorrow.

patsu

27-Oct-2008, 23:19

I could use a code if anyone can spare one!

Check your PM. I am not sure if it will work since Arwin redeemed it on his PS3, but it's worth a try.

patsu

28-Oct-2008, 08:24

IGN R2 score: 9.5/10.0 (incredible)
http://ps3.ign.com/articles/924/924372p1.html

9.0 Presentation
A continuation of the launch title franchise, Resistance 2 continues the battle against the Chimera. Lack of a narrator does hamper some of the cohesiveness of the game, however.
9.0 Graphics
Resistance 2 does have some weird technical and visual glitches, but the sheer number of enemies onscreen at once adds to the feeling of a massive battle for humanity.
9.0 Sound
Otherworldly sounds coupled with great voice acting and ambient effects heighten the action of the game.
9.5 Gameplay
Single player is a great experience with an epic scale to the campaign, but adding co-op and competitive play within the game only serves to augment the overall gameplay.
9.5 Lasting Appeal
A fast paced 10 hour single player campaign with multiple unlockables and difficulty levels are matched with extra multiplayer modes, gameplay options and community features.

EDIT: Link fixed.

RenegadeRocks

28-Oct-2008, 09:24

Whoa ! Scores already ! I'll have to check it out!
EDIT: I am getting a page not found error :( !

Nesh

28-Oct-2008, 09:27

Shifty Geezer

28-Oct-2008, 10:06

I think that there aren't that many ways to do it differently - there are a huge amount of monsters when you're playing with higher numbers especially, and you can't have all of them come at you at once, so the difficulty is in making sure they come at you in the right kind of waves.That's good. I think in this case, the vid was of a trooper and didn't show the background goings-on. Although it really does take a stupid amount of shooting to kill these monsters!

Nesh

28-Oct-2008, 10:44

yeah it does. I got a little bored of the co-op becuase of that. I had to shoot them for minutes, then move to the next objective and start shooting for minutes at one or two targets again.

Shifty Geezer

28-Oct-2008, 11:45

Phil

28-Oct-2008, 12:01

Im in the Beta since the weekend and I just can't get over how damn slow and unresponsive the game has become. This is not fun.

Winning isn't a problem - but it just isn't fun anymore. What a let down. :S

It seems to me, they took all the good things from RFOM and got rid of it.

- only two weapons at a time (one handgun / heavier weapon)
- bullseye tagging very awkward / unprecise
- slow and unresponsive controls
- color / art-direction (at least of the dark / night levels) makes it even harder - IMO even unappealing.
- L1 aiming is effectively worthless, since all it does is reposition the gun and tightens up the aiming speed a little

...

obonicus

28-Oct-2008, 12:50

It sounds as though being a grunt is the least rewarding, as you have less to fear, less to do. A medic has to run around keeping everyone alive, and the spec ops has to be careful. The grunt stands there for ages shooting over and over until the monster drops. Though I guess in other situations, the grunt has to quickly take out the smaller monsters so the other two aren't overwhelmed. If so, that's a reasonable balance of duties across classes.

The soldier's a tank; it's actually a lot of fun if your team supports you. You lead the push, you try and manage aggro so that people are shooting at you, make sure your shield's in the right place. You're tough, but without berserk not nearly tough enough to survive a lot of heavy fire. The medic's actually more survivable against sustained damage. That's essentially where the MMO comparisons come from: soldiers are tanks, medics are priests, spec ops are DPS (and buffers with berserk).

patsu

28-Oct-2008, 14:33

Is there a SP in the beta?

Nope. I was talking about my plan when R2 is released.

That's good. I think in this case, the vid was of a trooper and didn't show the background goings-on. Although it really does take a stupid amount of shooting to kill these monsters!

Yes, that's why I complained about it earlier on. Insomniac should remove the first 3 player levels. Bosses die faster and fight more in higher level games.

Im in the Beta since the weekend and I just can't get over how damn slow and unresponsive the game has become. This is not fun.

Winning isn't a problem - but it just isn't fun anymore. What a let down. :S

It seems to me, they took all the good things from RFOM and got rid of it.

- only two weapons at a time (one handgun / heavier weapon)
- bullseye tagging very awkward / unprecise
- slow and unresponsive controls
- color / art-direction (at least of the dark / night levels) makes it even harder - IMO even unappealing.
- L1 aiming is effectively worthless, since all it does is reposition the gun and tightens up the aiming speed a little

...

Other than the speed and colors, I agree with your complains.

Game is still smooth and fast, just not as fast as R1. It makes it accessible to more players.

Colors in the SF Dock level is butt ugly. Colors in Chicago and Orick seems more reasonable. The Dock level is the worst (because of sunset setting).

The negative feedback on gunplay and controls have been brought up numerous times by R1 fans. It looks like they are going to stay in R2 competitive mode.

tha_con

28-Oct-2008, 14:45

I'll be glad when the beta is over and all the haters stop playing, so I can stop hearing all the whining online. Really puts a damper on my experience when I have to listen to a handful of joes tell me how x game is much better than R2.

I'll go through 10 great games with great people, and then I land in a room full of hardcore "RFOM FANS". Basically, people who are absolutely incapable oc coping with change, and feel that making a game more accessible ruins it. If it's so much "easier" and "noob friendly" why do they suck so bad? Top tier is always top tier.

DrJay24

28-Oct-2008, 15:08

IGN review: 9.5

9.0 Presentation
A continuation of the launch title franchise, Resistance 2 continues the battle against the Chimera. Lack of a narrator does hamper some of the cohesiveness of the game, however.
9.0 Graphics
Resistance 2 does have some weird technical and visual glitches, but the sheer number of enemies onscreen at once adds to the feeling of a massive battle for humanity.
9.0 Sound
Otherworldly sounds coupled with great voice acting and ambient effects heighten the action of the game.
9.5 Gameplay
Single player is a great experience with an epic scale to the campaign, but adding co-op and competitive play within the game only serves to augment the overall gameplay.
9.5 Lasting Appeal
A fast paced 10 hour single player campaign with multiple unlockables and difficulty levels are matched with extra multiplayer modes, gameplay options and community features.

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/924/924372p1.html

Lucid_Dreamer

28-Oct-2008, 18:37

patsu

28-Oct-2008, 18:55

Ha ha... I know those guys. I believe, in essence, they are after the missing 0.5 in the 9.5 score (from their perspectives). They meant well.

Arwin

28-Oct-2008, 19:18

IGN review: 9.5

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/924/924372p1.html

I think this guy has similar tastes to mine - his review of the multi-player is exactly as I experienced the beta, and the single player from the video review looks absolutely awesome and huge. I'm definitely getting this!

betan

28-Oct-2008, 21:37

It seems to me, they took all the good things from RFOM and got rid of it.

- only two weapons at a time (one handgun / heavier weapon)

It seems to me that makes sense for objective based game types. TDM is a hit and miss, but for SP it's unacceptable, I'd agree.

- bullseye tagging very awkward / unprecise

Not to forget retarded number of tags. :(

- slow and unresponsive controls

Slightly slower than R1 (a lot slower than real rage mode), but unresponsive? Really?

- color / art-direction (at least of the dark / night levels) makes it even harder - IMO even unappealing.

I think IG games generally suffer a lot from art direction, but come on now, MP maps look way better than R1 maps. I really like the look of new ones.

- L1 aiming is effectively worthless, since all it does is reposition the gun and tightens up the aiming speed a little

To be fair, R3 aiming wasn't any better. Plus it now improves accuracy for weapons besides Fareye.
That said, I prefer Carbine aiming and Bulseye tagging the way it was.

zed

28-Oct-2008, 23:40

IGN review: 9.5
premature reviews are especially worthless, whilst u can argue that reviews from most large sites are practically worthless eg ign,gamespot,eurogamer,1up etc.
Premature reviews like the IGN one should be thrown straight in the bin,
reasoning - how come IGN were allowed to review this game early?
This practice should be stampped out, the easiest way is by ignoring them (though of course its not gonna happen).

though personally based on videos Ive seen this does look like a fun game, in fact the best shooter ive seen for years

Archgamer

28-Oct-2008, 23:59

how come IGN were allowed to review this game early?

They probably review an evaluation copy that Insomniac allow them to. A 9.5 is pretty high of what I predicted. But this is IGN. They are naturally generous giving games high scores.

Dominik D

29-Oct-2008, 02:45

premature reviews are especially worthless, whilst u can argue that reviews from most large sites are practically worthless eg ign,gamespot,eurogamer,1up etc.
Premature reviews like the IGN one should be thrown straight in the bin,
reasoning - how come IGN were allowed to review this game early?
This practice should be stampped out, the easiest way is by ignoring them (though of course its not gonna happen).

though personally based on videos Ive seen this does look like a fun game, in fact the best shooter ive seen for years
It's the same for multiplatforms, PS3 exclusives, Xbox 360 exclusives,... By the time game gets to 20 professional reviews any potential noise caused by alleged paid reviews, rushed reviews or whatever is negligible. It's unprofessional and cannot be compared to say book or music reviews (review copy of those can't differ from final as much as a game can) but since this is universal across the board I say: whatever.

obonicus

29-Oct-2008, 02:57

They probably review an evaluation copy that Insomniac allow them to. A 9.5 is pretty high of what I predicted. But this is IGN. They are naturally generous giving games high scores.

Actually, they're better known for giving big-name games high scores, but again, that's most everyone, unless the publication has an axe to grind.

Nesh

29-Oct-2008, 03:42

http://ps3.ign.com/dor/objects/14211237/resistance-2/videos/ResistanceComparison_102808.html

Lucid_Dreamer

29-Oct-2008, 04:49

Better yet there is the video review of R2 from IGN (http://ps3.ign.com/dor/objects/14211237/resistance-2/videos/Resistance2Review_102708.html). I guess we know what Insomniac will patch.

RenegadeRocks

29-Oct-2008, 09:04

http://ps3.ign.com/dor/objects/14211237/resistance-2/videos/ResistanceComparison_102808.html

Even from the video you can tell that the weapons sounded so much more powerful in R1 :( ! I want my Carbine back ....sniff.....!
I think one can only tell when the game is in our hands. I don't understand why they would muffle the sound of weapons in the sequel :???: !

Phil

29-Oct-2008, 09:35

Game is still smooth and fast, just not as fast as R1. It makes it accessible to more players.

Well, I'm really in a tie with R2. This has been easily one of the most anticipated game for me this year - and Fall of Man largely attributed to this. It's a game that is still as fun (if not more) than when I started playing it last October. It's a flawless, it's responsive (despite 30fps *ugh*), it's quick and most importantly - it's fun.

RFOM is a game, that I loved because it was not only a challenge, but it was a different challenge. With this game, learning how to dodge bullets, circle your opponent while getting headshots to get him down is something that required a lot of practise, frustration but it really payed off. In this game, you can really tell the difference between a noob running around like a headless chicken and someone who's mastered the game. The learning curve is/was very high which admittedly is very fustrating to new players (when I started RFOM I usually died 3 times more than I had kills).

Coming to R2 was naturally quite a shock.

I get, that the changes in R2 make it a more accessible game, but so far, those changes have resulted IMO, in a worse game. It's more realistic no doubt, but I'm still missing the "fun" factor that made RFOM such a gem. The 2 weapon set-up kills a lot of the games appeal.

As an example: If you're stuck with the FarEye, you're practically defensless if someone attacks you short-medium range. The handgun won't net you a kill quick enough and thanks to the slower gameplay and less bullets required to take someone down, the skill of evading and engaging in an epic "dog fight" battle is lost. You die, with little to no chance, regardless how experienced you are and how inexperienced your opponent is.

Because of the lesser hits required to take someone down, the differenciation between similar weapons has also taken a hit - which in turn limits the appeal of having creative and fun weapons in the first place. The BullsEye's new tagging system is more difficult and when engaging in a firefight, you're better of just pulling the trigger anyway. If you don't and try to tag him, you're either dead before you start shooting or so weak that the next opponent that sights you kills you off with a miserable lucky "one-hit" shot. Insomniac games have always been about the weapons and the fun gameplay. It made Ratchet & Clank such a fun game and of course RFOM too. Some of the decisions they've taken with R2 really surprise me.

Despite all this bitterness though, I have to say, after attempting another game last night, things are starting to shape up a little, but I'm still very skeptical towards the online part of the game. It's a masterpeace on so many levels, but I still remain very bitter on the front that they changed so many things that made RFOM such a rewarding and fun experience.

- slow and unresponsive controls
Slightly slower than R1 (a lot slower than real rage mode), but unresponsive? Really?

The slow and unresponsive controls were the first thing that striked me when I fired up R2. The experience has gotten better so far, which leads me to the conclusion that either the beta suffered from some added framerate issues due to connection, lag or load on the server (it is a beta overall). As I've only been able to play online games and not offline, that's all I could base my judgement on so far, but the first few cooporation games I fired up were unbearably slow, compared to the breeze RFOM is. My initial guess was that the game wasn't even hitting 30fps.

After having played some Deathmatch games, the experience has become better admittedly. The framerate seems to be constant at least which already made the game much more rewarding. It's no, RFOM, but after getting some used to, I guess it's tollerable.

- color / art-direction (at least of the dark / night levels) makes it even harder - IMO even unappealing.
I think IG games generally suffer a lot from art direction, but come on now, MP maps look way better than R1 maps. I really like the look of new ones.

To be honest, I might not have seen most levels yet, but I was indeed refering to the San Fransisco level for the most part. It's the only smaller level that I've got to play more than a few times to far and I don't like it. Graphics aside, I still much prefer the layout of RFOM levels.

- L1 aiming is effectively worthless, since all it does is reposition the gun and tightens up the aiming speed a little
To be fair, R3 aiming wasn't any better. Plus it now improves accuracy for weapons besides Fareye.
That said, I prefer Carbine aiming and Bulseye tagging the way it was.

Oh, but I feel R1 worked well (better) because is was a On/Off toggle, where as in R2, L1 needs to be pressed the entire time while aiming. Added to that, L1 is only really beneficial for long-range weapons such as the FarEye. Close to mid-range weapons, you're better of just firing anyway, which IMO excludes the reasons for even having an "aiming button" in the first place. I take it, they got this idea from the CallofDuty games where this set up makes sense, because L1 actually offers an advantage over normal aiming. In R2, it seems they wanted a CoD style gameplay with no "run and gun" and then after heavy criticism from RFOM fans, they made run and gun possible again. It's a broken system now and doesn't work.

Even if you wanted to use FROMs button setup, you can't, because you can't turn the "aiming button" to toggle-mode and you can't get rid of it entirely or but it back to the R3/L3 button, because you need it for the long range weapons (FarEye).

I appologise if this is more of the bitter same from oh so many RFOM players. After sticking with RFOM for over a year, spending the time to fully master it and buying every game Insomniac offered since the PS2 era, I feel I just had to post it and get some air. It's not a bad game - in so many ways, it's by no doubt a masterpiece. While the "2" is justified in the title and entitles to change, I'm not sure the "Resistance" is.

With CoD5 on shells sooner, R2 might lose some of its appeal for being too similar on many fronts, but not going the full way. It's a game stuck between RFOM and CoD5, not knowing, what it rather wants to be. A game lost in confusion IMO. :cry: :oops:

Epic battles and a definite rocking single player game will make it a must-buy for me. As for online gaming, I might just stick to RFOM.

patsu

29-Oct-2008, 10:05

R2 official thread in GAF: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=340358

These people follow the ARG and know much more about the story and game than I do.

tha_con

29-Oct-2008, 14:46

I like the changes because it added a lot of balance and need for team work. If you want to snipe in your squad in Team Death Match, do so with a buddy who will use a marksman for close / medium range, while you pick off enemies from afar. If you both have headsets, it's an amazing feeling when your spotter (the guy with the marksman) see's someone out of his range.

I don't know, I'm of a different breed than everyone else apparently. Loved R1. Love R2. I welcome change, keeps the game fresh and rewarding, while staying in the same universe. I really don't want to play R1 again with new maps, I played that game long enough.

Nesh

29-Oct-2008, 18:43

slider

29-Oct-2008, 19:52

Had my first real stab at co-op tonight. Whilst I'm not blown away by the GFX, they'll do. In fact I'd put them above just doing. It is a little bit slower than R1 but not so much that I mind.

I love the feeling you get when placed in a squad, in a 60 player game. Moving around. There seem to be some very intelligent players. Can't wait for full release.

Might have to fire up R1 again. Just for old times sake.

Cornsnake

29-Oct-2008, 20:59

The Beta is starting to piss me off. I play deathmatch and I get killed all the time. I shoot and shoot and shoot, and the opponent doesnt die. But he kills me instantly!!!

Its so annoying!! What am I doing wrong???

AAAAAAAARFGGGHH!!!!

There is an immorality glitch, and people who use the ironheart berserk can take far to much damage.

patsu

29-Oct-2008, 21:10

Is that what it is (Immortality glitch) ? Has Insomniac confirmed it ? Coz I was frustrated like Nesh too.

Cornsnake

29-Oct-2008, 22:44

There is a thread about on myres. It has people reporting they've seem immoral players or have been immoral themselves and have the screens with over 50 kills no deaths to prove it. An Insomniac has already replied to the topic that player don't have to worry about getting banned if this happens to them. So they are aware of the issue and are mostly likely trying to find solution.

I'm actually surprised they still haven't solved the issues with matchmaking so close to release.

emacs

29-Oct-2008, 23:29

yet another must-have game next month. nice :D

betan

30-Oct-2008, 01:20

As an example: If you're stuck with the FarEye, you're practically defensless if someone attacks you short-medium range. The handgun won't net you a kill quick enough

Magnum has alt fire, you need to use it after shooting someone.

and thanks to the slower gameplay and less bullets required to take someone down,

Less bullets required to take someone down?
I suck I guess, because without ironheart I'm having difficulty getting multikills.
It certainly seem to take more with bullseye, and I rarely loose against anybody even when they use any other weapon at close range.

The BullsEye's new tagging system is more difficult and when engaging in a firefight, you're better of just pulling the trigger anyway.

That seems to be the case.

It's a masterpeace on so many levels, but I still remain very bitter on the front that they changed so many things that made RFOM such a rewarding and fun experience.

Give me my tagging back, I'm good to go.

To be honest, I might not have seen most levels yet, but I was indeed refering to the San Fransisco level for the most part. It's the only smaller level that I've got to play more than a few times to far and I don't like it. Graphics aside, I still much prefer the layout of RFOM levels.

I think it's a little early to talk about the map design, but I currently like what I'm seeing considering there is no spawn points or dictated obvious strategy yet.

Since the game does not remember your matchmaking preferences, nor retry automatically I ended up having to play 3 ranked deathmatches in SF level. What I like there is the new horizontal jumpers. They all point to the same area in the map, gathering everyone around.

Oh, but I feel R1 worked well (better) because is was a On/Off toggle, where as in R2, L1 needs to be pressed the entire time while aiming. Added to that, L1 is only really beneficial for long-range weapons such as the FarEye. Close to mid-range weapons, you're better of just firing anyway, which IMO excludes the reasons for even having an "aiming button" in the first place. I take it, they got this idea from the CallofDuty games where this set up makes sense, because L1 actually offers an advantage over normal aiming. In R2, it seems they wanted a CoD style gameplay with no "run and gun" and then after heavy criticism from RFOM fans, they made run and gun possible again. It's a broken system now and doesn't work.

I totally disagree here. Since I'm a tagger, I played R1 with high sensitivity. As a result my carbine skills suffered at medium range, since aiming for head was difficult. Hence I had to rely on R3 to temporary decrease sensitivity, but it would have been much easier and more consistent with otherwise fast gameplay of R1 if it was on L1(hold).

With CoD5 on shells sooner, R2 might lose some of its appeal for being too similar on many fronts, but not going the full way. It's a game stuck between RFOM and CoD5, not knowing, what it rather wants to be. A game lost in confusion IMO. :cry: :oops:

I played a lot of CoD4 after R1 matchmaking started to suffer to the degree it was unbearable, and with all the praise CoD4 was getting during Full Moon show I was afraid R2 would be more like CoD4.
You know what, while I'm totally unhappy about Bullseye, and slightly off about reduced speed, the game still feels and plays way more like R1 than CoD4.

ultragpu

30-Oct-2008, 01:36

apparently that nice chap by username TTP from neogaf has unlocked the option for Motion blur in the game after snatched some trophies he says. he can also adjust the strength of it too. sweeet!

Nesh

30-Oct-2008, 02:30

There is an immorality glitch, and people who use the ironheart berserk can take far to much damage.

I think you might be right! Because I remember a very specific moment I was shooting at someone who was simply standing for 10 seconds and wouldnt freaking die. After that I got my ass kicked again.

Other things I ve noticed in the deathatch were people that could shoot at me and move extremely fast at the same time as if they were pressing the "running" button. I couldnt get a shot at them!

And how on earth can they kill me instantly with a normal gun? Someone can assume a headshot. But:

1) I cant kill someone with a headshot even if he is standing right in front of me and shoot him directly on the head

2) How on earth can someone manage a headshot with a normal gun while he is way too far away from me and I am "running"????

tha_con

30-Oct-2008, 02:58

http://www.myresistance.net/smf/index.php?topic=81906.msg2372479#msg2372479

My fan whoring has FINALLY paid off. Victory!

Can't wait to post tons of pictures!

Nesh

30-Oct-2008, 03:19

Congrats buddy :)

Phil

30-Oct-2008, 09:41

I think it's a little early to talk about the map design, but I currently like what I'm seeing considering there is no spawn points or dictated obvious strategy yet.

Actually thanks for reminding me - the spawn points are terrible. After playing quite a few deathmatches, everytime you get killed and re-spawn, you either should get the hell out of there quick or next guy who respawns at that point will be sure to put some bullets in your back. Thanks to less ammo required to kill someone, your chances for survival, no matter how skilled, are small at best. However, if you go behind the spawn point, you can pick up the next ones respawning there. They really have to sort this out (and yes, I've tested this quite a few times). The frustration level is rising.

Since the game does not remember your matchmaking preferences, nor retry automatically I ended up having to play 3 ranked deathmatches in SF level. What I like there is the new horizontal jumpers. They all point to the same area in the map, gathering everyone around.

To be honest, I don't like the horizontal jumpers much. It's lifts you to places you don't see. If there happen to be a few players there fighting each other, you're either lucky to get some kills while coming down, or you're killed before you get an aim on someone because you just land in their line of fire.

In the San Fransicso level, the one jumper (on the right side, in front of the building where you can snipe from) gets you in a little area surrounded by a fence (close to the docks). I've been killed numerous times because some sh*t decided to wait in the corner for anyone coming down. I know it's not the players fault, but I also don't think these things go well with the "more realistic approach" R2 seems to be taking on. If you have full blown RFOM gameplay, yes, it works. But with R2 style realism being the new trend, you die far too many times and I don't see a way of avoiding that, unless you simply don't use those jumpers.

I totally disagree here. Since I'm a tagger, I played R1 with high sensitivity. As a result my carbine skills suffered at medium range, since aiming for head was difficult. Hence I had to rely on R3 to temporary decrease sensitivity, but it would have been much easier and more consistent with otherwise fast gameplay of R1 if it was on L1(hold).

What?! You used Zoom with the Carbine at short to medium range to get headshots? Using zoom to battle anyone medium range with the carbine will get you a dead sentance unless you're playing against n00bs that have no idea how to take evasive action...

But seriously, in R2 - I can't believe you find the aiming button all that much use? If you're using the Bullseye for example - even on high sensitivity - pressing L1 barely tightens up the control. The only thing that changes, is the weapons position and the turning speed which is reduced slightly at best...

Oh well, will play more R2 while the beta still lasts. It's growing on me, but for different reasons and not because of the Resistance in the title... Coop is quite a lot of fun when you battle your way through with some friends...

tha_con

30-Oct-2008, 11:59

Phil, this is my gentlemans disagreement :)

While I understand where you are coming from, I think you're complaints are a case by case basis. Yes, I've died a few times from spawn points, but I'm generally fast enough to get heads up and stay competitive. In a 10 player DM in SF I usually go 1.8 for a KDR, 2.0+ on good days. That's without spawn camping or hiding. It's really just knowing your weapons and how to play with them. If you're using the marksman, being cautious and saving your alternate fire for a heated battle keeps you alive. If you're using the Carbine, you absolutely need to stay within mid range and avoid staying in one place, you'll die. Move fast and often, and always try to stay close range, avoid long distance shoot outs. Same can be said for the Bullseye and Shotgun. People playing with the Fareye need to keep moving to different sniping points, remaining stationary will get you killed. The Bellock is the type of weapon in 10p SF DM that needs corridors. Use the alternate fire to trap your opponent with fire, make them rush, then launch the primary fire around htem. Though you almost absolutely have to have the 1up on them.

If anything, I think you're still playing the game too much like RFOM, and not like "R2". At least that's what it sounds like.

But I will agree that the spawn points need to be more varied, and there certainly need to be more of them...but in a small map like SF, that's kind of hard.

Phil

30-Oct-2008, 12:39

:oops:Phil, this is my gentlemans disagreement :)

While I understand where you are coming from, I think you're complaints are a case by case basis. Yes, I've died a few times from spawn points, but I'm generally fast enough to get heads up and stay competitive. In a 10 player DM in SF I usually go 1.8 for a KDR, 2.0+ on good days. That's without spawn camping or hiding. It's really just knowing your weapons and how to play with them. If you're using the marksman, being cautious and saving your alternate fire for a heated battle keeps you alive. If you're using the Carbine, you absolutely need to stay within mid range and avoid staying in one place, you'll die. Move fast and often, and always try to stay close range, avoid long distance shoot outs. Same can be said for the Bullseye and Shotgun. People playing with the Fareye need to keep moving to different sniping points, remaining stationary will get you killed. The Bellock is the type of weapon in 10p SF DM that needs corridors. Use the alternate fire to trap your opponent with fire, make them rush, then launch the primary fire around htem. Though you almost absolutely have to have the 1up on them.

If anything, I think you're still playing the game too much like RFOM, and not like "R2". At least that's what it sounds like.

But I will agree that the spawn points need to be more varied, and there certainly need to be more of them...but in a small map like SF, that's kind of hard.

Oh, no hard feelings... I don't mind others having a different opinion on the game. Just trying to find some form of justification for my bitterness towards the game that's all.

Ironically though, all the advices you gave me above, are ones that apply very much so to RFOM: Knowing when, where and how to use your weapons. Only problem is: You only have two and changing/finding weapons during a heated deathmatch game is rather difficult. The easiest way to do that, is to die and start with your ideal weapon - something I prefered in RFOM where the player was forced to find it first (gave the whole game more variety). That's like starting the game everytime with BullsEye in RFOM (as human). Or with the ArcCharger.

Oh and btw (this more applies to Betan):
Playing with the FarEye as a team with someone to protect you may work very well in team deathmatch (and is a blast), but in deathmatch, highly unlikely. :razz: Of course, moving around helps - but in a crowded 10 player (or more) deathmatch, this may be quite difficult to achieve. I haven't seen all levels yet, but those that I have seen aren't really optimal, which I think is a shame. I loved sniping in RFOM.

Oh and btw: for the record - I'm not bad at R2. My kDR so far has been around 1.5 up to 2 or higher in the few deathmatch games I've played. Not something I messure myself though - it's always dependant on how skilled players you're facing. On the other hand though - that's exactly my point: It required more skill in RFOM to play good (and in itself is/was more rewarding in the end). Perhaps this is it, what made the game more accessible to many?

Perhaps I can add you to my PSN friends list and we can play a few matches together. Those on my list haven't been playing much R2 - either they aren't in the beta or not really happy with it.

Nesh

30-Oct-2008, 12:54

I play Resistance 2 often too. But I never saw you either. :razz:

I get my ass kicked literally btw

Phil

30-Oct-2008, 13:17

I play Resistance 2 often too. But I never saw you either. :razz:

I get my ass kicked literally btw

:oops: You're right. I think we often miss each other. We should play together. I'll try to check more often - perhaps I'll be online tonight (I think you're more or less in the same time zone). Then we can get our asses kicked together. :grin:

Nesh

30-Oct-2008, 13:22

By the time I am posting this its 3:22 pm over here. I ll be online tonight if I am free. :)

tha_con

30-Oct-2008, 13:29

:oops:

Oh, no hard feelings... I don't mind others having a different opinion on the game. Just trying to find some form of justification for my bitterness towards the game that's all.

Ironically though, all the advices you gave me above, are ones that apply very much so to RFOM: Knowing when, where and how to use your weapons. Only problem is: You only have two and changing/finding weapons during a heated deathmatch game is rather difficult. The easiest way to do that, is to die and start with your ideal weapon - something I prefered in RFOM where the player was forced to find it first (gave the whole game more variety). That's like starting the game everytime with BullsEye in RFOM (as human). Or with the ArcCharger.

Oh and btw (this more applies to Betan):
Playing with the FarEye as a team with someone to protect you may work very well in team deathmatch (and is a blast), but in deathmatch, highly unlikely. :razz: Of course, moving around helps - but in a crowded 10 player (or more) deathmatch, this may be quite difficult to achieve. I haven't seen all levels yet, but those that I have seen aren't really optimal, which I think is a shame. I loved sniping in RFOM.

Oh and btw: for the record - I'm not bad at R2. My kDR so far has been around 1.5 up to 2 or higher in the few deathmatch games I've played. Not something I messure myself though - it's always dependant on how skilled players you're facing. On the other hand though - that's exactly my point: It required more skill in RFOM to play good (and in itself is/was more rewarding in the end). Perhaps this is it, what made the game more accessible to many?

Perhaps I can add you to my PSN friends list and we can play a few matches together. Those on my list haven't been playing much R2 - either they aren't in the beta or not really happy with it.

Absolutely man, I'd love to get some games in.

PSN: tha_con

The Beta is over tonight, but the release is only a few days away, so if you're picking it up, we can certainly get some games in together. I try to play DM and Skirmish almost exclusively though, along side co-op. I'm going to try to avoid Co-Op all together until I finish the Single Player campaign, don't want any intel spoilers to ruin something in the main story!

Phil

30-Oct-2008, 14:13

Damn, you're right - it's only until tonight. :( I thought it still running until Saturday evening. Is it finished tonight, American time? that would still give us Europeans a bit of time, even though I have work tomorrow... :) I'll add you tonight! :D

DJ12

30-Oct-2008, 14:34

According to play the European beta runs until the 13th November.

Makes sense seeing as it's released at the end of the month over here not the beginning of the month like the US

tha_con

30-Oct-2008, 15:26

Sorry! Forgot the Euro beta lasts longer! Well, I suppose we won't be able to play until later, but add me anyway!

RenegadeRocks

30-Oct-2008, 17:26

http://www.myresistance.net/smf/index.php?topic=81906.msg2372479#msg2372479

My fan whoring has FINALLY paid off. Victory!

Can't wait to post tons of pictures!

Congrats Dude ! You have won one cool prize !:cool:
Man, things I would do to work at Insomniac :razz: !

Cornsnake

30-Oct-2008, 17:54

I think you might be right! Because I remember a very specific moment I was shooting at someone who was simply standing for 10 seconds and wouldnt freaking die. After that I got my ass kicked again.

Other things I ve noticed in the deathatch were people that could shoot at me and move extremely fast at the same time as if they were pressing the "running" button. I couldnt get a shot at them!

And how on earth can they kill me instantly with a normal gun? Someone can assume a headshot. But:

1) I cant kill someone with a headshot even if he is standing right in front of me and shoot him directly on the head

2) How on earth can someone manage a headshot with a normal gun while he is way too far away from me and I am "running"????

The faster movement can be achieved by using the Adrenaline boost berserk. I haven't tried it myself, but I assume it lets you run as fast as normal running while still be able to shoot.

The faster killing can be achieved by using the Prototype ammo berserk. It gives the user stronger ammo for all guns, and drop a few ammo packs with the same stronger ammo for his teammates. The ammo isn't much stronger though, it shouldn't make for 1 shot kill weapons. Only the fareye can kill you with a single headshot.

A bigger health bar can be achieved by using the Iron heart berserk. This give about twice the amount of health, making it a very powerful berserk. A lot of people on myres agree that this berserk should made less powerful.

If you want to use the berserks, then you'll have to fill up the XP bar in the top right corner. Press down on the D-pad to use. You can change berserks in the menu while you wait to respawn.

patsu

30-Oct-2008, 19:54

Argh, all these perks are giving me headaches. They are too complex and seem arbitrarily named. No wonder Insomniac has to spend so much time tuning match making (and fix that immortality glitch related to the Berserk or Iron Heart perk).
>_<

Co-op for the win ! :-P

RenegadeRocks

31-Oct-2008, 05:32

1up review (http://www.1up.com/do/reviewPage?cId=3171026) !!

They have some rants, but still, a game which is better than the original, is better , Right !!!
When am I gonna get the game :evil: ? :)

RenegadeRocks

31-Oct-2008, 09:23

Another Review

http://www.nzgamer.com/ps3/reviews/784/resistance-2.html

RenegadeRocks

31-Oct-2008, 13:04

Holy SHit ! I couldn't Resist (pun ! :wink: ) and watched one of the videos at Gamersyde and damn ! I saw one of the bosses :shock: ! The water's awesome ! I shut the video immediately but I am double pumped now !:razz:
Don't watch the video, get the game , its a whole new take on Resistance !!!!!

patsu

31-Oct-2008, 18:20

Heh, SCEE's R2 ad: http://www.ps3bloggen.se/spel/tv-reklamen-for-resistance-2

It adopts the same approach as the US commercial (live-action + gameplay video) but goes one step further to integrate them.

R2 single player gameplay video: http://www.gamersyde.com/news_7282_en.html
(It has spoilers !)

Kittonwy

02-Nov-2008, 22:25

Shifty Geezer

02-Nov-2008, 22:36

Presumably they are away that people will notice, but think it won't adversely affect their sales.

Cornsnake

02-Nov-2008, 22:39

Arwin

02-Nov-2008, 23:24

R2 single player gameplay video: http://www.gamersyde.com/news_7282_en.html
(It has spoilers !)

Man, some of that looks amazing. That scene with those space-ships that we've seen previewed, to see it like this in action ... :shock:

Also, maybe the reflection of the water isn't perfect? But then the deformation of it when moved by certain creatures and reaction to bullets, waves, etc., I like a lot and it looks great! I've watched part 5 and 6 particularly.

I think I can see some of the criticisms in terms of gameplay, but personally, I've seen enough and I think there's a very good chance that I'll play this at some point in time. ;) I have to see that crazy shit on my own TV! Sure what Killzone does is awesome too, and maybe is the future tech and looks more impressive in terms of immersion, but when you accept that this looks more like a game, maybe a cartoon even, wow. Look forward to seeing more of this.

patsu

03-Nov-2008, 00:19

I can't get anyone in the gaf clan to play anymore (by gaf clan I mean people from the RFOM gaf clan whom I've played with the most for the past two years). Anyway, the gamersyde video confirmed one of my fears about the game, that it won't be one of the best-looking PS3 games when all is said and done because they didn't have HDR (or whatever approximation) and more objects casting shadows like most PS3 games do now and that the bosses aren't really that epic, four games into this generation and still their water can't consistently reflect, if they're going to put crates in the game, at least baked some shadows in the level, or have proper shadows, it's just strange how Insomniac thinks people won't be able to notice the complete lack of proper shadows in the environments.

I have the same problem with the KillerZ clan. Unless the day one patch brings back all that was good in Rfom, we won't be playing clanwars on it. I would have never believed it if they told me this half a year ago. R2 was always the game we looked forward to playing clanwars on. But there is no longer is any point in them, it's all about mindless shooting now.

Hear hear ! It's not that people don't want to play. I think it's because we are bad in the competitive mode given the changes. There's no point bunching up and die together.

tha_con is probably eager to get some games.

Patch (part of) the game for RFOM players, Insomniac

tha_con

03-Nov-2008, 02:17

Kittonwy

03-Nov-2008, 05:37

I will play with anyone. Apparently I'm the only person on the face of the planet who is absolutely in love with the game (or I'm the only person with acceptable standards :P).

THATS WHY I AM GOING TO INSOMNIAC FOOLS! FANBOY VICTORY STRIKES AGAIN!!!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v500/EvilTaru/angry.gif

RAWR.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v500/EvilTaru/Indifferent2.gif

RenegadeRocks

03-Nov-2008, 05:43

I will play with anyone. Apparently I'm the only person on the face of the planet who is absolutely in love with the game (or I'm the only person with acceptable standards :P).

THATS WHY I AM GOING TO INSOMNIAC FOOLS! FANBOY VICTORY STRIKES AGAIN!!!

You selfish person :evil: ! learn to share your love ! There are many more smitten with it :grin: !

But, for the others, insomniac can speed up the MP a bit, but do it only in the competitive. See, thats how you share love :wink: !

RenegadeRocks

03-Nov-2008, 07:18

Resistance 2 = 2008's Orange Box

Found this very interestng quote by someone named Mazzingerz at n4g !
QFT :D !

tha_con

03-Nov-2008, 11:41

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v500/EvilTaru/angry.gif

RAWR.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v500/EvilTaru/Indifferent2.gif

If the rest of GAF won't play, maybe us Bannificated folks can play together!

Honestly, I think what Insomniac SHOULD do is offer a bite sized update with a new "old core" gameplay mode that's faster and has weapon spawns, with more than a 2 weapon system.

Forget about balance and all that other crap, patch that later. Just give a few maps some old core stuff, let the RFOM guy's have it, and PLEASE let me keep what is already available. PLEASE.

patsu

03-Nov-2008, 15:12

tha_con

03-Nov-2008, 16:30

That's what I hope for when I said "patch (part of) the game" above.

Skirmish is their new favorite mode. Insomniac spent a lot of time tuning it for R2 competitive.

When they are done, they can change TDM to be like R1. That would be heaven. Seriously, I don't need the perks ^_^

I would much rather they add a new gametype all together, as I want team death match to stay exactly like it is now. Every level requires different skill sets.

Honestly, the only level I feel needs more tuning is Chicago subway. Unfortunately, the level is an absolute DISASTER with the Splicer. It's terrible. Friendly fire on that map would certainly solve that problem.

That said, if they offer an "old school" mode, specifically, then I would be happy for you guy's. I could care less for R1 gameplay mechanics, as they were aged and passed on from last generation, in my opinion, but I understand people want that kind of stuff, and it should have it's own game type.

patsu

03-Nov-2008, 16:36

That would work for me.

Why is the Chicago map a disaester with Splicers ?

Cornsnake

03-Nov-2008, 16:57

Hear hear ! It's not that people don't want to play. I think it's because we are bad in the competitive mode given the changes. There's no point bunching up and die together.

tha_con is probably eager to get some games.

Patch (part of) the game for RFOM players, Insomniac

It's not that were bad at it. There are some excellent player in our clan that are good at it, but still don't like it.

R2 is a mix between Rfom and CoD4. It has some of the run and gun gameplay of Rfom, but it's missing the depth of Rfom. And at the same time has some of the more tactical gameplay of CoD4, but again is missing some of the depth of CoD4. That makes R2 easily accessible, but also rather shallow. Both Rfom's and CoD4's gameplay has been done before, so a simplified combination of the two isn't all that difficult if you played them before. R2 is missing some of the depth to it's gameplay that had Rfom and CoD4 players coming back for more.

I'm also disappointed by the number of gameplay modes in Competitive. Reviews have only mentioned the 4 present in the beta, Deathmatch, Teamdeathmatch, Core Control ( their version of Capture the Flag ), and Skirmish. For a clanwar Deathmatch obviously won't work, Skirmish won't work because we would have different objectives potentially making the difficulty uneven. That leaves Teamdeathmatch and Core Control, that's far less the Rfom had to offer. Which had Teamdeathmatch, Capture the Flag, Meltdown, Breach, and Assault. R2 is a step back from Rfom in a number of areas. It's going to need a good patch to make it better.

Isomnaic has said on myres. that they are thinking of something along the lines of an old school mode. But adding versions of the maps that work with Rfom's gameplay play, balancing the weapons for accuracy, adding weapon spawns, carrying all weapons, takes a lot of work. And they are not making any promises on if they are going to do it, and how it will turn out if they do. And we shouldn't expect anything soon.

patsu

03-Nov-2008, 17:23

That's good feedback. I can't comment on the depth since I gave up and delayed playing competitive soon after public beta. At this moment, I know I dislike the complexity (specifically perks), the new weapon balance and the 2 weapon limits. The speed is slower but is still good enough and smooth.

Insomniac will probably watch their active userbase before deciding their next move. There are some new things in R2 (8P co-op and Skirmish) that I expect will attract and retent some people. For the other modes, my gut feel is they will have to tweak them further.

Have they said what the day 1 patch will fix ?

Cornsnake

03-Nov-2008, 18:22

They haven't said anything about the day 1 patch yet. The US beta ends tonight, the EU beta lasts until Nov. 13, so I hope whatever the patch brings that the beta gets it too.

Isomnaic will probably wait until they see how the general public responds to the changes. It's going to be interesting to see if its along the same lines as the responds to the beta's. Lot of predictions are being made that gamers won't keep playing R2 for as long as they played Rfom. But we won't know for sure until a while after the release. The easy accessibility can be good for attracting more casual gamers.

I don't like using the berserks, I usually walk around with them for a while before even using them. I think take some berserk that helps the team, and leave it at that. I think the weapons are well balanced for what the gameplay is offering right now, but I want them to be more accurate, which would mean they need to be rebalanced. And I want more focus on headshots, now there is very little difference, which makes sense with the inaccurate weapons. The speed needs to go up, you should need more hits to kill, and be able to carry more then two weapons.

I doubt we'll get all that though.

Kittonwy

03-Nov-2008, 20:15

I think if they're going to do ironsight, they should just patch it so that the player can do real ironsight online, I just don't really understand the point of having a reticle when the whole point of "IRONSIGHT" is to look down the scope, or at least make the reticle tighter even if there is still a bit of spray. I do think berserk makes a huge difference when you have ironheart on, in a one-on-one encounter you can pretty much dominate. I think even with less accurate weapons they can make the difference between headshots and bodyshots greater to differentiate between levels of skill.

I'm still picking this up on day one, just a bit disappointed because I was really expecting a visual feast and MP-wise some of the objective modes that were so overwhelmingly more enjoyable than crap like CTF didn't make it into R2. Obviously I wasn't the only person having an issue with the visuals as several review sites have pointed out some of the textures (1UP) and lighting problems (gamepro), I so wanted this to be THE shooter for the PS3 but there's really only so much they can fix via patches.

tha_con

03-Nov-2008, 20:47

Gameplay > Visuals.

If it was the other way around, I would have still been playing Gears of War. Significantly better looking, far less entertaining.

Resistance 2 has numbers, scale, challenge, variety, everything I want in a shooter. HDR can blow my hairy balls, give me more people on screen, more action, more explosions, bigger enemies. To hell with textures and lighting, I'm playing a game, not pretending that shit really makes a difference in my experience.

SOTC was full of ugly textures and frame drops, clipping and what not. Fucking fabulous game.

Okami wasn't full of high res textures or HDR. Fucking fabulous game.

SMG doesn't have super high res visuals or HDR. GTFO.

Basically, don't hold ONE GAME to a standard you wouldn't hold ALL games to, regardless of platform, it's ridiculous. If the game looks good, runs well, plays well, and is fun, then x texture doesn't matter, nor does the 'dynamic range' of the lighting (or shadows being case on object y from light source j).

Kittonwy

03-Nov-2008, 21:07

I would think great games should be able to match gameplay with visuals, the notion that one would need to choose one over the other is bs. Average visuals does not imply superior gameplay or vice-versa. Uncharted is a testament to that, Wipeout HD is a testament to that, Little Big Planet is a testament to that, even Motorstorm 2 is a testament to that, all have gorgeous lighting/shadowing, a great visual package and great gameplay. It's really not like you have scenarios where you're facing a hundred enemies at once anyway, maybe a dozen at most outside of encounters with grims, but then one can look at Uncharted in the custom house there are at least 10 enemies in the level, all with EXCELLENT AI, in a large area with great lighting/shadowing and consistently high quality textures.

SOTC was doing a TON of stuff on the PS2 from reflective, bouyant water to self-shadowed characters, lens flare, motion blur, dynamic lights that cast shadows, bosses that you can fight ON, grab onto and collision maps were up the wazoo for a PS2 game that literally puts a game like Heavenly Sword TO SHAME, things that the critically acclaimed but highly scripted God of War series couldn't even touch when God of War 2 was released in 2007.

Okami was a fully realized world where you're not restricted by invisible walls, where the wolf can literally jump and double jump over most things, you can go as far as your eyes can see, it's not just being rendered to be seen, but to interact with, everything in the game has a consistent feel, it's actually one of the most beautiful game on the PS2 and has better and more consistent textures than any open-world game on the system, Okami as a visual package was EXCEPTIONAL.

Don't really care about SMG to be honest, but this might have to do with the fact that the wii is a graphically much less capable console.

If visuals don't matter then there's really no point in developing for a more capable platform. It's not even like I'm expecting something that only one or two games are capable of doing, even Sony's own Edge tools allow for self-shadowing as well as HDR, even SOCOM Confrontation has some form of HDR (for those arguing it's not really HDR for argument's sake, I'm talking about just a form of hack or approximation), this isn't Insomniac's first game on the system, it's their FOURTH, it shouldn't even be a question of time because they've had plenty of time to get those features in, if this is a direction they're taking then they should expect to get knocked on their games' visuals because it's already happening. I happen to like their games and want them to review well, but then it's up to them to bring it in terms of visuals, reviewers aren't going to be pulling punches just because Ted is a nice guy or that it's a great place to work, etc, etc. It's a competitive market where games are constantly trying to outdo each other in scope, visuals, gameplay twists, there's no sitting on one's laurels in ANY of those areas.

I have no problem with scope as long as scope means anywhere within the player's view the player can go, do I care about having a hundred ships in the air that I can't do anything with? Nope, as long as stuff that I CAN interact with looks great and there is a ton of great physics in the level as well as great enemy AI, why is the massive titan not able to knock cars out of its way to get to the player? Why is it that when one is in orick that you can have so little destructability that a titan carrying a ROCKETLAUNCHER can't touch you behind a crate? If the player is allowed to board one of those chimera crafts and fly to one of the big ships ALL IN REAL TIME, then maybe it might justify spending so much rendering power just to draw all those ships, scope alone shouldn't be as important as scope that one can in fact interact with.

The problem is a matter of consistency, when you have the SF map having characters casting long shadows, it makes zero sense to see a wall of sandbags or crates sticking out and not fitting within the lighting scheme, somehow they need to make everything blend in, even if it meant baking a few shadows or have a mid-day map to minimize the number of shadows needed or make it easier to fake the shadows, great looking wood and stone should be expected, places where you have had an invasion should show more destruction, there should be a little more destructability. R2 should be setting a new standard for visuals in the shooter genre because it's THE blockbuster shooter on the PS3 this holiday season and the FOURTH game Insomniac developed on the same platform, there should be no excuses unless they're seriously constrained by budget which I doubt is the case.

For me and most of the guys in the clan, we just expected a better game because we actually played the first game ALOT and actually care about the direction of the franchise, I'm critical because I don't give a crap about free stuff or getting on a developer's good side, some of us are always pushing for a better game, maybe our feedback will go unnoticed but it doesn't mean we can't express what we think or what we express doesn't make sense in terms of Insomniac making this IP into a blockbuster series instead of just one of a dozen good games this holiday season. I've seen people try to make fun of reviews that have raised issues with graphics and other things when those are in fact constructive criticisms that Insomniac should really take to heart because visuals was one of the main complaints with RFOM.

Cornsnake

03-Nov-2008, 21:22

tha_con

03-Nov-2008, 22:20

patsu

03-Nov-2008, 22:22

You can probably find shortfalls in various places. However, for the insane amount of activities in 8P co-op, I don't see how we can fault the graphics.

I remembered turning on the shield and stepped into the second gully. I have never dreamt of that amount of firepower when the Chimeras unloaded all their arsenal on me at once. I could barely see the enemies and my comrades because bullets were flying everywhere (plus Ring of Life). Couldn't move because I knew everyone behind me would be dead instantly. The world was literally shaking (visually and acoustically) as we get pounded. Then the Grims and Hybrids charged, then the Titan stomped all the way up the gully, right by the door.

We have never seen it wandered so far before. One guy yelled "WTF !", and the remaining 2-3 of us pulled back (more like ran away).

I think 8P co-op is nice especially if the AI keeps improving.

The main personal disappointment is the competitive play.

Arwin

03-Nov-2008, 22:24

Tha_con, if it helps, I'm currently still on your side. But I'll have to play the final game to give a definite stance on the matter. I can say though that I vastly preferred R2's multiplayer, even competitive, so far as I've played the beta. Sure it could use even more modes, but I like Skirmish a lot as well as the berserk modes, which add a lot of depth to team-play. The speed of it is perfect for someone like me.

tha_con

03-Nov-2008, 22:30

For the few things R2 is missing in its graphics, its still putting on an impressive display. Scale and number of enemies are more likely the reason why its missing a few things, rather then anything on Insomniac's part. They are simply trying to stand out in a different way then most games are.

I like great graphics to enhance the experience in a singleplayer game, but in a multiplayer game with so much going on, I'll settle for good enough graphics and more importantly a stable framerate.

See, this is also how I feel. Rather than just push the envelope with pretty visuals, they want to move in another direction and offer something no other developer is offering. Scope and scale are two things that have been sorely lacking this generation.

How many games have we played this generation with hacked in Co-op? Even RE5 looks like it's force feeding people some hack job co-op with a new character. Insomniac decided to do something entirely new and innovative for online co-operative multiplayer in a First Person Shooter. Instead of just offering campaign, they offered massive battles that have great replay value.

Sure, we've all played 16 player shooters with smaller maps and vehicles, but how many of us have played 60 player maps?

Even more importantly, why does the 16 player title only look marginally better than Resistance 2? Even the much smaller Gears of War doesn't look like it's a generation ahead of Resistance 2, with 1/6th of the player count (and smaller levels to boot).

These things are all infinitely more important to me than "that texture looks nice" or "that brick is casting a shadow on my characters foot!".

I don't mean to belittle anyone, however, you can easily see that the better looking titles are often the ones that have the least replay value.

Bioshock
Uncharted
Army of Two
Assassins Creed
GTA IV
Unreal Tourney 3

I'm sure there are plenty more to add, but Single Player or Multiplayer, these games all expired long before many thought they would. Who is still talking about Assassins Creed? Once you get over the visuals, the game itself was rather shallow and repetative, with a story that I personally thought was poor.

I would argue that Uncharted was great, but came no where near the scope or scale of R2. Insomniac needed to use 1 engine to create 3 different components of the game, which all support massive amounts of polygons and particle effects. To knock them for not giving you a nice texture on some walls, or shadowing on crates...is just over the top, IMO.

They've certainly made their achievements, and worked hard to get where they are. To sell them short, or pretend that what they've done is some sort of betrayal to fans is ridiculous. They are a company, and they are certainly looking to the market to see where the money is. I don't hold that against them, it's what they do with that direction that counts. With Resistance 2, I think they've offered up a meaty shooter with plenty of depth to keep players coming back for more, while making it accessible enough for new players to get into it quickly and have fun.

Kittonwy

03-Nov-2008, 22:48

Kittonwy, I'm going to stop before things get ugly. I don't know if you're trying to suggest that I'm defending the game just to get on Insomniacs "good side" and catch a free ride or something, but that is certainly not the case.

We'll just end it here and agree to disagree.

Not referring to you wrt free stuff, just saying personally I'm not in it for the loot or trying to get on a dev's good side, although I do see some people pulling punches just because devs post on boards and stuff. As a fan of RFOM I'm simply giving an honest opinion because I want R2 to be a great game and there's no reason why anyone should dismiss the visual aspect as important in some sort of "gameplay>graphics" argument, the best games often have both aspects nailed, I think just because most people aren't involved in the process of making games (some of us don't ever want to be making games, I just like playing them for entertainment), it doesn't mean the devs know better what a good game plays like.

Lucid_Dreamer

03-Nov-2008, 22:58

You can probably find shortfalls in various places. However, for the insane amount of activities in 8P co-op, I don't see how we can fault the graphics.

I remembered turning on the shield and stepped into the second gully. I have never dreamt of that amount of firepower when the Chimeras unloaded all their arsenal on me at once. I could barely see the enemies and my comrades because bullets were flying everywhere (plus Ring of Life). Couldn't move because I knew everyone behind me would be dead instantly. The world was literally shaking (visually and acoustically) as we get pounded. Then the Grims and Hybrids charged, then the Titans stomped all the way up the gully, right by the door.

We have never seen it wandered so far before. One guy yelled "WTF !", and the remaining 2-3 of us pulled back (more like ran away).

I think 8P co-op is nice especially if the AI keeps improving.

The main personal disappointment is the competitive play.
I just don't see how one could argue with the bold part above.

patsu

03-Nov-2008, 23:01

Not referring to you wrt free stuff, just saying personally I'm not in it for the loot or trying to get on a dev's good side, although I do see some people pulling punches just because devs post on boards and stuff. As a fan of RFOM I'm simply giving an honest opinion because I want R2 to be a great game and there's no reason why anyone should dismiss the visual aspect as important in some sort of "gameplay>graphics" argument, the best games often have both aspects nailed, I think just because most people aren't involved in the process of making games (some of us don't ever want to be making games, I just like playing them for entertainment), it doesn't mean the devs know better what a good game plays like.

Hmm... I believe it's also an issue of packaging. The amazing elements I experienced came much later. For someone who has not ventured far enough, they will not get to see those. In addition, these experiences only occurred at specific points in the game compared to basic visuals that are "everywhere".

I understand your concerns with visuals; but given the same amount of time, I'd rather they fix and enhance the gameplay first. We have given our feedback in the closed beta, but apparently there are enough opposite opinions. And so here we are.

It remains to be seen who's sticks around longer. Them or us (old timers with R1).

Kittonwy

03-Nov-2008, 23:12

See, this is also how I feel. Rather than just push the envelope with pretty visuals, they want to move in another direction and offer something no other developer is offering. Scope and scale are two things that have been sorely lacking this generation.

How many games have we played this generation with hacked in Co-op? Even RE5 looks like it's force feeding people some hack job co-op with a new character. Insomniac decided to do something entirely new and innovative for online co-operative multiplayer in a First Person Shooter. Instead of just offering campaign, they offered massive battles that have great replay value.

Sure, we've all played 16 player shooters with smaller maps and vehicles, but how many of us have played 60 player maps?

Even more importantly, why does the 16 player title only look marginally better than Resistance 2? Even the much smaller Gears of War doesn't look like it's a generation ahead of Resistance 2, with 1/6th of the player count (and smaller levels to boot).

These things are all infinitely more important to me than "that texture looks nice" or "that brick is casting a shadow on my characters foot!".

I don't mean to belittle anyone, however, you can easily see that the better looking titles are often the ones that have the least replay value.

Bioshock
Uncharted
Army of Two
Assassins Creed
GTA IV
Unreal Tourney 3

I'm sure there are plenty more to add, but Single Player or Multiplayer, these games all expired long before many thought they would. Who is still talking about Assassins Creed? Once you get over the visuals, the game itself was rather shallow and repetative, with a story that I personally thought was poor.

I would argue that Uncharted was great, but came no where near the scope or scale of R2. Insomniac needed to use 1 engine to create 3 different components of the game, which all support massive amounts of polygons and particle effects. To knock them for not giving you a nice texture on some walls, or shadowing on crates...is just over the top, IMO.

They've certainly made their achievements, and worked hard to get where they are. To sell them short, or pretend that what they've done is some sort of betrayal to fans is ridiculous. They are a company, and they are certainly looking to the market to see where the money is. I don't hold that against them, it's what they do with that direction that counts. With Resistance 2, I think they've offered up a meaty shooter with plenty of depth to keep players coming back for more, while making it accessible enough for new players to get into it quickly and have fun.

You're listing a bunch of games, some of which didn't even have online MP to knock them for their lack of "replay value"? Obviously MP wasn't the developers' focus. Are you arguing that when people look at the R2 SP campaign, they're required to take into account that the game has MP so the SP campaign won't look as good?

Uncharted as a single player campaign had excellent AI and plenty of replay value, multiple difficulties, and enemies that at least give the appearance of behaving dynamically and intelligently, most of the levels allow for different approaches by both players and enemies, and players can employ different play styles, it's accessible to the point where it CAN be and often IS, replayed many times, Uncharted is by far much more replayable than the SP campaign in RFOM IMHO.

I doubt either of us have played through the single player campaign in R2 yet so I'm not sure if R2 SP is so much more replayable than Uncharted, obviously Uncharted doesn't have online MP but Naughty Dog wanted to focus on SP and it really shows because they did an amazing job in terms of gameplay, visuals AND audio. For a game that toutes its scope, from various footages the R2 SP campaign seems rather linear, for that kind of linearity I'm not sure why the game couldn't look better. If you can't have crates or sandbags that cast shadows, bake them, or light your levels in a way that they won't stick out as much.

In HALO3 the fights against scarabs was the definition of "scope" with multiple approaches to taking down the enemies whether you want to use a tank or fly around or even fight on the scarabs but what in the R2 SP campaign shown so far has indicated that R2 has THAT kind of scope? The goliath fight and the leviathan fight both are rather linear from what they've shown. Like I said, I'm all for the argument for "scope" but when we're talking about scope it shouldn't simply be what the player is seeing but never gets to interact with. Fighting one of the bosses in SOTC, THAT'S scope, having a bunch of scripted events and following a series of linear paths, is not really scope or at least what I prefer as "playable" scope.

R2 co-op resembles more an objective game against a bunch of bots, well, a TON of bots. Personally I prefer co-op over the MP competitive because the player is playing with friends, it also makes the relatively unsophisticated AI more palatable, a lot of times things are made more difficult because of enemie spawning right next to you rather than the enemies being really intelligent and aggressive, even with the enemies getting more aggressive as you level up I've still yet to see enemies that really try to outflank the players.

I do think R2 has turned out to be a good game, one that I look forward to picking up tomorrow, but it just seems to me that for each of the modes it offers, there are problems that could have been addressed, whether it's the aiming (ironsight not really being ironsight), MP competitive lacking in objective mode types, MP co-op not having exactly strong AI, SP campaign inconsistency in graphics, that the game could have spent another 6 months in the cooker.

zawarudo

03-Nov-2008, 23:20

patsu

03-Nov-2008, 23:22

Might want to wait for the game sales result before commenting on sales effect. :)

Kittonwy

03-Nov-2008, 23:26

Hmm... I believe it's also an issue of packaging. The amazing elements I experienced came much later. For someone who has not ventured far enough, they will not get to see those. In addition, these experiences only occurred at specific points in the game compared to basic visuals that are "everywhere".

I understand your concerns with visuals; but given the same amount of time, I'd rather they fix and enhance the gameplay first. We have given our feedback in the closed beta, but apparently there are enough opposite opinions. And so here we are.

It remains to be seen who's sticks around longer. Them or us (old timers with R1).

Hopefully the AI in SP is good.

I think even with the public beta there has been so much backlash that they would have noticed. I don't think those who are defending the MP right now saying how the people who complained on myres are supposedly a minority (even though that "minority" clearly outnumbers the people who called them a minority) will stick around, my fear is that in a few months when Killzone 2 comes out even the hardcore who kept fighting for them to tune the game to be better would just take off and go with Killzone 2, it's like RFOM right now it would be hard to get a decent objective game going, hopefully skirmish will be playable in a few months, I hope to stick around for awhile, we'll see what the rest of the clan plans to do, last week I've had a hell of a time trying to get ANYONE from the old clan to play R2, most wanted to play either LBP, or wipeout HD MP (which frankly I don't really care about), or GTAIV MP (which frankly I also don't really give a crap about) or Burnout Paradise (which I also don't give a crap about), we used to play RFOM every single night for like two whole years.

Lucid_Dreamer

03-Nov-2008, 23:41

One thing is for sure, this game hasn't taken off or moved the needle for the PS3 at all. I must say that the gameplay of R1 and R2 alike feels very generic even for a shooter. That's the main problem. It's boring to actually play.

Might want to wait for the game sales result before commenting on sales effect. :)
It does sound like zawarudo is trying to speak it into existence, doesn't it? :smile:

patsu

03-Nov-2008, 23:48

I think even with the public beta there has been so much backlash that they would have noticed. I don't think those who are defending the MP right now saying how the people who complained on myres are supposedly a minority (even though that "minority" clearly outnumbers the people who called them a minority) will stick around, my fear is that in a few months when Killzone 2 comes out even the hardcore who kept fighting for them to tune the game to be better would just take off and go with Killzone 2, it's like RFOM right now it would be hard to get a decent objective game going, hopefully skirmish will be playable in a few months, I hope to stick around for awhile, we'll see what the rest of the clan plans to do, last week I've had a hell of a time trying to get ANYONE from the old clan to play R2, most wanted to play either LBP, or wipeout HD MP (which frankly I don't really care about), or GTAIV MP (which frankly I also don't really give a crap about) or Burnout Paradise (which I also don't give a crap about), we used to play RFOM every single night for like two whole years.

I very much doubt that Insomniac will sit on its laurels. Something inside me says that they will likely respond after they get the R2 launch in order.

According to Reverend Harrison...
"I believe that a true 21st century business model is to do all of that [production] in the glare of the game-playing public, so you can expose that innovation to your consumers," he said. "You may not charge them for it at this point - but why not deliver your innovations and experimentations directly to your players, and let them be part of the process of deciding which games to make?"

R2 might be a good start. It has so many elements that it's like a FPS construction kit to me (or at least all the advanced building blocks are there).

ultragpu

04-Nov-2008, 03:36

personally im very happy with the direction insomniac has headed. it is perhaps the most epic war game out on the market with insane amount of actions, scale and more than good enough sfx. this is their focus, they're not trying to go the absolute CG-ish prestine look of KZ2 nor the eye bleeding sharpess of uncharted, they are simply offering their own unique approach to wow us. there's no reason to doubt insomniac's ability to programe HDR or better shadows, it's just their design choice to balance everything out and in which the result is indeed impressive. so i would be happy for wat the game is. my 2c on the graphics for the day.

Cornsnake

04-Nov-2008, 17:09

my fear is that in a few months when Killzone 2 comes out even the hardcore who kept fighting for them to tune the game to be better would just take off and go with Killzone 2

This is very true. I've seen it happen before, and it's happening right now with Battlefield Bad Company. If the game isn't to a players liking for what ever reason, if the problem isn't fixed within a few months, they'll move on to the next big game. And even if the problem is fixed after they move on, they won't be coming back. Killzone 2 seems like a good candidate for players to move to, but CoD5 could even be the game to do it. If the day 1 patch isn't what players want, then Insomniac has only a limited amount of time to respond to keep their fans. I would hate to see that happen.

tha_con

04-Nov-2008, 20:43

GarretASUS

04-Nov-2008, 20:51

You're listing a bunch of games, some of which didn't even have online MP to knock them for their lack of "replay value"? Obviously MP wasn't the developers' focus. Are you arguing that when people look at the R2 SP campaign, they're required to take into account that the game has MP so the SP campaign won't look as good?

Uncharted as a single player campaign had excellent AI and plenty of replay value, multiple difficulties, and enemies that at least give the appearance of behaving dynamically and intelligently, most of the levels allow for different approaches by both players and enemies, and players can employ different play styles, it's accessible to the point where it CAN be and often IS, replayed many times, Uncharted is by far much more replayable than the SP campaign in RFOM IMHO.

I doubt either of us have played through the single player campaign in R2 yet so I'm not sure if R2 SP is so much more replayable than Uncharted, obviously Uncharted doesn't have online MP but Naughty Dog wanted to focus on SP and it really shows because they did an amazing job in terms of gameplay, visuals AND audio. For a game that toutes its scope, from various footages the R2 SP campaign seems rather linear, for that kind of linearity I'm not sure why the game couldn't look better. If you can't have crates or sandbags that cast shadows, bake them, or light your levels in a way that they won't stick out as much.

In HALO3 the fights against scarabs was the definition of "scope" with multiple approaches to taking down the enemies whether you want to use a tank or fly around or even fight on the scarabs but what in the R2 SP campaign shown so far has indicated that R2 has THAT kind of scope? The goliath fight and the leviathan fight both are rather linear from what they've shown. Like I said, I'm all for the argument for "scope" but when we're talking about scope it shouldn't simply be what the player is seeing but never gets to interact with. Fighting one of the bosses in SOTC, THAT'S scope, having a bunch of scripted events and following a series of linear paths, is not really scope or at least what I prefer as "playable" scope.

R2 co-op resembles more an objective game against a bunch of bots, well, a TON of bots. Personally I prefer co-op over the MP competitive because the player is playing with friends, it also makes the relatively unsophisticated AI more palatable, a lot of times things are made more difficult because of enemie spawning right next to you rather than the enemies being really intelligent and aggressive, even with the enemies getting more aggressive as you level up I've still yet to see enemies that really try to outflank the players.

I do think R2 has turned out to be a good game, one that I look forward to picking up tomorrow, but it just seems to me that for each of the modes it offers, there are problems that could have been addressed, whether it's the aiming (ironsight not really being ironsight), MP competitive lacking in objective mode types, MP co-op not having exactly strong AI, SP campaign inconsistency in graphics, that the game could have spent another 6 months in the cooker.

I would agree that scope isn't merely what you see, but what you can interact with. The Halo games are great examples of this (more so Halo 3) and I would say Gears of War 2 looks to have that kind of "interactive" scope.

Although not a Halo killer, Resistance 1 was a good game (about a 7.5/10 game), but you could tell it was quickly done in a bunch of areas. Mostly static cinematics, harsh transitions between levels, boring lead character, and a story that took a backseat for the most part, even though it was interesting but wasn't the priority. Resistance 2 looks to improve on these things, but we'll see if really surpasses them.

Cornsnake

04-Nov-2008, 21:53

I think those worries are premature and over the top.

All games have "hardcore' people. I think folks even play Deadlocked, IIRC, on PS2.

That said, just got done with a quick play session during lunch, loved it. Looked great, controlled great, weapons felt great. A few unexpected deaths, but nothing frustrating.

The CE has tons of stuff, and the Chimeran Action Figure is extremely well packaged and put together, very very high quality stuff (much better than the Big Daddy, Assassins Creed, hell, I'd even say it rivals the Halo Action Figures for quality).

Well I'm not talking of all players of coarse, mostly the one's that have their doubts about competitive now. I play clanwars on www.consolegaming.eu, and if we can't play a decent clanwar soon after release, our clan and most other clans will move on, and the few that are left behind won't have enough clans to play against on the clanladder. And like I said before, R2 is missing a few gamemodes to keep clanwars interesting.

I wish they had that CE here in europe, its offering a lot for just a little extra. It's a shame SCEE can't be bothered to bring it over.

tha_con

04-Nov-2008, 22:37

I'm 100% positive that R2 will see at LEAST 3 more game modes that will be patched in within the next 6 months or so.

Hopefully I get some good time to talk to some folks and leak some ideas I've got to them.

patsu

04-Nov-2008, 22:53

Jstevenson hinted that more game modes are coming.

woundingchaney

05-Nov-2008, 01:27

Not a lot of time to post but been playing for a few hours and Im greatly enjoying both the sp and mp.

Hit me up with friend invites (WoundingCHANEY) if anyone would like to play co-op or competitive sometime.

RenegadeRocks

05-Nov-2008, 06:14

Gamesradar Review Link (http://www.gamesradar.com/ps3/resistance-2/review/resistance-2/a-2008110416827370024/g-200801289119828067/p-2)

R2 isn’t the perfect game: the Campaign is too short, the story too confused and the action too derivative. Also, for such a polished game, the sight of fallen foes hovering in mid-air or getting caught on scenery and sent spinning really stands out. But there’s so much done right, so many ideas that have clarity and have been followed through, and so much to stand in awe of, that Resistance 2 is surely a must-buy for anyone with a PS3.

The most important aspect, and what lets all the individual elements shine, is the game’s pacing – it’s immaculate. It constantly mixes up boss battles, races against the clock, switch pulling, vent crawling, ambushes, sieges, corridor blasting and open battlefields in such a way that you never feel overwhelmed or idle.

My only worry, coz they don't have vehicle sections this time, seems to have vaporized :D!

While being a technical and innovative success, the way the online options cater to both the newbie and the hardcore in the same space is the real victory for Insomniac.
Something that has debated a lot here.

patsu

05-Nov-2008, 08:05

There are quite a few show-off moments in this game. Lot's of enemies in all shapes and sizes.

Don't know what to say about SP yet. I'm still playing and digesting. I think the game misses the R1 weapon wheel. Without the wheel, Insomniac has to drop weapons all over the place for us to pick up, which is rather weird.

Did I say the game has lot's of enemy types ? It's like a Zoo or something :twisted:

[Cock shotgun and walk out]

See you later :-P

RenegadeRocks

05-Nov-2008, 09:12

Why do I have to suffer the delay ! This time its a darn 24 days delay ! patsu, you will have finished the whole Sp and gone halfway thru co-op by the time I get the game :( !

BTW, without the weapo wheel, doesn't it become obvious as to what are you going to face next, coz you'll see a specific weapon lying there before that. I hate that, feels like spoonfeeding and takes away the surprise completely. Like if I see a LAARK lying in front I know, there will be a giant monster behind the door :evil: !
Does it bother you, patsu, while playing R2? or is it fine?

djskribbles

05-Nov-2008, 09:45

How long is the campaign?

Phil

05-Nov-2008, 10:20

Why do I have to suffer the delay ! This time its a darn 24 days delay ! patsu, you will have finished the whole Sp and gone halfway thru co-op by the time I get the game :( !

I find this to be the biggest flaw in the multiplayer part of the game... Sadly.

patsu

05-Nov-2008, 14:29

BTW, without the weapo wheel, doesn't it become obvious as to what are you going to face next, coz you'll see a specific weapon lying there before that. I hate that, feels like spoonfeeding and takes away the surprise completely. Like if I see a LAARK lying in front I know, there will be a giant monster behind the door :evil: !
Does it bother you, patsu, while playing R2? or is it fine?

In general, it does bother me a bit.

But even if they have the wheel, Insomniac will still drop the right ammo before the encounters like the first game. :lol:

Sometimes, the weapon is tucked away by the way side, so you'll have to hunt around while under attack. I prefer the wheel because if I don't use the ammo supplied by Insomniac, I can try something else.

pipo

05-Nov-2008, 14:30

Eurogamer review (9/10): http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=283054

djskribbles

05-Nov-2008, 14:36

^ Good review. Says the SP campaign is ~10 hours which isn't too bad imo.

liolio

05-Nov-2008, 14:37

Eurogamer review (9/10): http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=283054
I was about to post it, sounds really really like a great game :)

DrJay24

05-Nov-2008, 14:49

I got to spend a whole 1/2 hour playing SP last night. The in game cuts scenes and voice acting are very good now. The intro is epic too. It's nice to play a shooter that isn't campy and is written for my age (>30). Reminds me of Half-Life 2 in that respect.

patsu

05-Nov-2008, 14:54

I was about to post it, sounds really really like a great game :)

To be clear, R2 is massive. I've mentioned that it's "too complex" for me because I like simple things in general. There are many gameplay options in MP (e.g., perks when leveling up, buyable equipments that enhance ability using a currency called GreyTech, soldier classes + alien, R&C-like weapons, competitive game modes with dynamic objectives, 8P co-op with more and more nasty AI, split-screen, huge MP maps that reconfigure themselves to stay fresh, ...). Too many for me to try during the betas. And perhaps too many for Insomniac to button down all at once.

They have stuffed an incredible amount of goodies in a Blu-ray disc. You NEED to see what a heavy battle looks like in R2.

Nonetheless, among this forest of features, I couldn't find my ex-love, R1. That's a little too much for me. That, and I can't get into the basic competitive game. I need to double check whether they have tweaked the competitive game after patch 1.20 (the day one patch) though.

If they keep improving on this huge FPS platform, I can see R2 become an "FPS theme park". I am serious.

betan

05-Nov-2008, 14:56

patsu or woundingchaney, how is loading? Are there any loading screens ala R1, or are they nonexistent/invisible ala RCF?

As for me, there are four things I expect from a sequel to R1. Strafe shooting, good level design, awesome weapon selection and well balanced pacing.
Regarding the first one, unfortunately I heard game forces you to take cover often, and I'm quite puzzled by the faster bullseye bullets. Why Insomniac, why??? :|

patsu

05-Nov-2008, 15:09

Hmm... I am less than half into SP. There are very nice cutscenes to hide the loading like in R&C. When you die, it takes a tad longer to reload (but it's fine, just a few seconds more).

On normal...

You need to take cover because of high enemy damage. That's why I try to keep Auger close to me as much as possible. It is faster and more powerful now. With the shield on, I can do slightly more Rambo-ing.

In general, your damage is greater too. Marksman is surprisingly more lethal than in MP. But the Chimeras are aggressive and easily agitated this time. It's like they have a burning itch to scratch or something, and will charge when their numbers are great.

Unlike some of the reviewers, I enjoyed the invisible Chimera. It's the first computer enemy I feel like teabagging. :yes:

The reviews are mostly correct. There are flaws but there are plenty of goodies in R2.

betan

05-Nov-2008, 15:23

Hmm... I am less than half into SP. There are very nice cutscenes to hide the loading like in R&C. When you die, it takes a tad longer to reload (but it's fine, just a few seconds more).

A tad longer than almost-instant checkpoint restarts? I can live with that I guess. :)
To be fair RCF and especially Uncharted's streaming/checkpointing combos are unmatched this gen.

You need to take cover because of high enemy damage.
This is so disappointing I feel like crying. :cry:
Not the damage part though. In R1 even on Superhuman you could do strafe shooting since you knew where Chimera would be shooting, and slower speed of bullseye allowed that. :|

In general, your damage is greater too. Marksman is surprisingly more lethal than in MP. But the Chimeras are aggressive and easily agitated this time. It's like they have a burning itch to scratch or something, and will charge when their numbers are great.
At least that is good to hear.

Unlike some of the reviewers, I enjoyed the invisible Chimera. It's the first computer enemy I feel like teabagging. :yes:
That definitely sounds like something I'd enjoy as well.

patsu

05-Nov-2008, 15:31

A tad longer than almost-instant checkpoint restarts?

Yes.

To be fair RCF and especially Uncharted's streaming/checkpointing combos are unmatched this gen.

:cry: YES ! Sony exclusive and cross-platform devs, would you use this more ? Btw, there are one or two places where the game slowed down due to loading (e.g., once after respawn, and once when I walked up a flight of stairs with no enemy around me).

This is so disappointing I feel like crying. :cry:
Not the damage part though. In R1 even on Superhuman you could do strafe shooting since you knew where Chimera would be shooting, and slower speed of bullseye allowed that. :|
At least that is good to hear.

The level designs hmm... how should i say this... can be "fragmented" sometimes (Too short !), especially early in the game. But it gets better and better towards the middle. You will enjoy the game more without expecting huge encounters all the time.

tha_con

05-Nov-2008, 15:41

I have a lot to say, but I'll wait until tonight to type up my essay.

True to my form, I will probably upset some people, and go largely against the grain. Don't take it personal though, I still love each and every one of you :P

patsu

05-Nov-2008, 15:45

Actually, I think I know what you're going to say (A list of bad decisions, big and small, is at the back of my mind). I am waiting to complete more of the game before I summarize them. Don't be surprise if you find a supporter. :-P

ultragpu

05-Nov-2008, 16:04

http://i38.tinypic.com/21m7xpf.jpg
havent got the game yet, but wow at this pic! is this how it looks Patsu? i've been hearing the visual inconsistency of this game, so just wondering how do the lesser shots compared to this?

patsu

05-Nov-2008, 16:21

Don't ask me about visuals. :-P
Many of you here are better than me for picking out flaws in a screenshot.
OTOH, what you hold highly in technical terms may look "normal" in my noobish eyes.

I can only say I love Valkyria Chronicles, KZ 2 and MGS 4 art style. R 2 visuals are generally good for me. However some parts are indeed worse looking than others. I like Iceland and Orick, but not the mothership internals near the beginning of the game

obonicus

05-Nov-2008, 16:24

From what I've heard in podcasts the main problem is inconsistency. You'll have a few objects that don't cast shadows, you'll have a bunch of log cabins that look pre-fabbed, etc.

ultragpu

05-Nov-2008, 16:31

Don't ask me about visuals. :-P
Many of you here are better than me for picking out flaws in a screenshot.
OTOH, what you hold highly in technical terms may look "normal" in my noobish eyes.

I can only say I love Valkyria Chronicles, KZ 2 and MGS4 art style. R2 visuals are generally good for me. However some parts are indeed worse looking than others. I like Iceland and Orick, but not the mothership internals near the beginning of the game
yeah, heard alot of neat things about the Orick level. i guess i'll find out everything myself in due time:)

ultragpu

05-Nov-2008, 16:36

From what I've heard in podcasts the main problem is inconsistency. You'll have a few objects that don't cast shadows, you'll have a bunch of log cabins that look pre-fabbed, etc.
a better shadow system is always welcoming in R3, but can those shortcomings be overlooked by the rest of the package? or do they stand out too much or too often?

tha_con

05-Nov-2008, 16:46

I think people are really asking too much in most situations, and holding this game to a standard they don't hold other games to. It's ridiculous.

The game looks fantastic for what it offers, and is extremely fun. Asking for a brick to cast a shadow is OTT and obnoxious, IMO. Listening to David Ellis on the last 1Up Yours was a mental disaster for me, I seriously felt like the guy was being ridiculous. I'd love to go back and listen to other podcasts where he beefed up some games, and rip him a new one, make him look like a fool, but I just don't have the time.

Duke

05-Nov-2008, 16:50

I'd love to go back and listen to other podcasts where he beefed up some games, and rip him a new one, make him look like a fool, but I just don't have the time.

Yep. Actually, from what I've read, Gears 2 has the exact same "animated skybox" feel to the "scale" that he said Resistance 2 had. However, Gears is super awesome and epic to him while Resistance just fakes it. So you dont have to dig far to find some funny examples of his double standards. ;)

BoardBonobo

05-Nov-2008, 18:59

Some people will go to any lengths to down talk the opposition. For all it's worth R2 looks and plays exactly how it should. Why do these people expect such great things of the PS3, and set such high standards as to be almost unobtainable, and yet you slap some extra make up on a 360 game and suddenly the second coming has occurred (and probably the third and fourth until their arm drops off...). It transcends pathetic into the sublime world of head up own ass...

obonicus

05-Nov-2008, 19:04

Yep. Actually, from what I've read, Gears 2 has the exact same "animated skybox" feel to the "scale" that he said Resistance 2 had. However, Gears is super awesome and epic to him while Resistance just fakes it. So you dont have to dig far to find some funny examples of his double standards. ;)

MS and Epic sold GeoW 2 really really well, while Sony and Insomniac didn't do that hot. And the 'press' is just a bunch of gamers.

On the other hand, let's not round up the wagons in defense of a game that just posts back big-time Sony fans like Kittonwy were pointing out fairly major flaws in. It's okay to like a flawed game, really, not every game you like has to be flawless.

Arwin

05-Nov-2008, 19:09

Cornsnake

05-Nov-2008, 20:02

In the campaign can you keep the hybrids from returning fire if you keep making headshots until they die, just like in Rfom. It would probably need better accuracy for the Carbine to be able to do that.

tha_con

05-Nov-2008, 20:06

MS and Epic sold GeoW 2 really really well, while Sony and Insomniac didn't do that hot. And the 'press' is just a bunch of gamers.

On the other hand, let's not round up the wagons in defense of a game that just posts back big-time Sony fans like Kittonwy were pointing out fairly major flaws in. It's okay to like a flawed game, really, not every game you like has to be flawless.

Every single thing Kittonwy mentioned is not a flaw.

I can pick apart dozens of top notch games with visual hiccups (Bioshock, Assassins Creed, GTA IV, Halo 2, Gears of War 1 and 2, etc).

Fact of the matter is, most of these people know jack shit (excuse my language) and they want to view themselves as some sort of conisiuer of gaming.

If the game runs well, has polish (i.e. no frame drops, doesn't freeze, no crazy bugs, etc) then it's deserving of praise these days. Hell, so many games are freaking sub-par, running at near SD resolutions with screen tearing and pop in, it's amazing that people can say negative things about this game with a straight face.

Blows my mind.

Arwin

05-Nov-2008, 20:26

Go easy on Kittonwy, he loved the original, and he has every right not to like changes. He probably wanted the same game but with Killzone 2 type graphics.

Eurogamer's review comments this time are already unusually friendly so far (few exceptions), but this little classic interchange between the reviewer and a site member shouldn't be missed:

MONSTER HEIGHT, DAN?

DEAR IHATEMARK@EUROGAMER

THANK YOU FOR YOUR QUESTION. THE SIZE OF THE MONSTERS VARIES CONSIDERABLY. MOST ARE MERELY HUMAN SIZED, OR PERHAPS A LITTLE TALLER. IMAGINE JEFF GOLDBLUM IN PLATFORM HEELS. THERE ARE ALSO SOME MONSTERS WHICH ARE BIGGER THAN THIS. IMAGINE IF BRUCE FORSYTH WERE TO SIT ON JEFF GOLDBLUMS SHOULDERS AND RAISE HIS HANDS IN THE AIR. ABOUT THAT HIGH.

OTHERS ARE VERY SMALL, BEETLES AND SPIDERY THINGS AND SUCHLIKE. THESE MONSTERS ARE USUALLY BETWEEN THE SIZE OF AN OLD LADIES HAND AND A MEDIUM SIZED WOK.

MOSTLY I THINK YOU'LL BE LOOKING FOR THE EXTRA-SPECIAL LARGE MONSTERS WHICH CAN BE AS BIG AS A BUILDING. A PROPER BIG BUILDING, LIKE IN AMERICA, NOT A SCOUT HUT OR BUNGALOW.

THE GAME ALLOWS YOU TO SHOOT BULLETS AT ALL OF THESE MONSTERS. IT'S RATHER GOOD FUN.

LOTS OF LOVE,

DAN

obonicus

05-Nov-2008, 20:43

Every single thing Kittonwy mentioned is not a flaw.

Not every thing, but enough of them (to be clear, I'm not referring to Kittonwy's gameplay complaints but to their complaints about graphics and lighting). Again, games don't have to be flawless for you to enjoy them.

If the game runs well, has polish (i.e. no frame drops, doesn't freeze, no crazy bugs, etc) then it's deserving of praise these days. Hell, so many games are freaking sub-par, running at near SD resolutions with screen tearing and pop in, it's amazing that people can say negative things about this game with a straight face.

I'd claim the opposite, though: that all these problems must be brought to light, and because they haven't in the past is no reason not to do so in the future. If R2 has problems of any sort I'd like to know about them.

tha_con

05-Nov-2008, 20:53

The thing is, is it best to spend system resources enhancing gameplay, on screen action, frame rate, v-sync, audio support (7.1 surround FTW) or to spend those resources lighting a god damned brick that 90% of the people playing the game will never even notice?

It's absolutely ridiculous with current generation hardware to spend those resources doing silly things like that, when you can dedicate them to so much more.

patsu

05-Nov-2008, 20:55

I don't think there is a flawless game. :)

Despite all the criticisms we hauled at Resistance 2, it is still a pretty good game. I voiced my opinion because I think Insomniac is well capable of addressing them but didn't (or haven't). In my view, the project scope is too big and they ran out of time.

I am glad Insomniac explored these limits though. They form very good studies for future games to come (e.g., MAG, R&C, R3, inFamous, even Uncharted).

Although I have not completed the game, I already look forward to more DLCs.

It's absolutely ridiculous with current generation hardware to spend those resources doing silly things like that, when you can dedicate them to so much more.

I think Kittonwy's comments should be taken in spirit rather than literally. He's after the last 0.5 - 1.5 point to make R2 10.0.

EDIT:
Arwin, yeah... there are new critters in R2. That's why I said R2 felt like a Zoo. Gameplay-wise, you'll have to experience fighting these creatures yourself. I'll refrain from spoiling the game for you guys. There are both highlights and low points in these encounters.

Cornsnake

05-Nov-2008, 21:06

They only have finite amount of resources to spend. If they are going to spend them over more things, then obviously your going to lose a little detail. These aren't flaws, they are simply trade-offs.

I look forward to some more detailed impressions of R2, even if I end up disagreeing with them. I prefer user impressions over review sites.

tha_con

05-Nov-2008, 21:10

I think Kittonwy's comments should be taken in spirit rather than literally. He's after the last 0.5 - 1.5 point to make R2 10.0.

I don't want people to think I'm *just* putting him on the spot. I'm talking about reviewers, David Ellis, Garnet Lee, lots of folks all around.

I just feel there are certain times where you have to hold your standards to ALL games.

Uncharted had janky animation when platforming, I find this much more jarring than a brick without a shadow.

Bioshock has an absolutely terrible closing 1/3rd of a game, the design is nothing more than fetch quests with a bad boss battle.

Oblivion and Fallout all have problems with enemy AI, people walking through walls, enemies falling out of the sky, and other random bugs.

Halo 3 had absolutely terrible human character models, looking like they were ripped straight from Halo 2, while everyone else looked like they belonged in the 360 version.

Ninja Gaiden II had HUGE issues with framerate and camera work, both of which I find really game breaking.

Point is, the brick without a shadow is not gamebreaking. It's a brick without a shadow. If it did in fact have a shadow, not a single person would really give a rats ass. You never hear anyone talk about the small rock in the corner in Uncharted that cast's a shadow. But bet your pretty little buttons, if that rock DIDN'T cast a shadow, it would be the biggest deal in the world.

It doesn't make sense. It's nothing more than picky gamers being picky gamers (journo's included) who want to hold games to ridiculous standards, while letting their "favorite" games get a free pass.

obonicus

05-Nov-2008, 21:13

They only have finite amount of resources to spend. If they are going to spend them over more things, then obviously your going to lose a little detail. These aren't flaws, they are simply trade-offs.

Should they be mentioned, though, should people pick at them?

DrJay24

05-Nov-2008, 21:18

Wow this thread is so far of topic.

So far I'm really enjoying the SP, the game takes a great turn in SF with the city in ruins in the background. It is top quality FPS action, ranks up there with HL2 so far.

tha_con

05-Nov-2008, 21:35

Should they be mentioned, though, should people pick at them?

No, they shouldn't.

If they are involved enough to be on a forum like this (or NeoGAF) then they are certainly knowledgeable enough to know what tradeoffs are, why they are made, and how to allocate system resources in game development. It doesn't require any technical knowledge, just a little thought.

patsu

05-Nov-2008, 21:45

I don't want people to think I'm *just* putting him on the spot. I'm talking about reviewers, David Ellis, Garnet Lee, lots of folks all around.

I just feel there are certain times where you have to hold your standards to ALL games.

Uncharted had janky animation when platforming, I find this much more jarring than a brick without a shadow.

Bioshock has an absolutely terrible closing 1/3rd of a game, the design is nothing more than fetch quests with a bad boss battle.

Oblivion and Fallout all have problems with enemy AI, people walking through walls, enemies falling out of the sky, and other random bugs.

Halo 3 had absolutely terrible human character models, looking like they were ripped straight from Halo 2, while everyone else looked like they belonged in the 360 version.

Ninja Gaiden II had HUGE issues with framerate and camera work, both of which I find really game breaking.

Point is, the brick without a shadow is not gamebreaking. It's a brick without a shadow. If it did in fact have a shadow, not a single person would really give a rats ass. You never hear anyone talk about the small rock in the corner in Uncharted that cast's a shadow. But bet your pretty little buttons, if that rock DIDN'T cast a shadow, it would be the biggest deal in the world.

It doesn't make sense. It's nothing more than picky gamers being picky gamers (journo's included) who want to hold games to ridiculous standards, while letting their "favorite" games get a free pass.

In my view...

The games you cited above had special sauces that kept the players' imagination going. As their imagination were drawn in by the game world, it was easy/natural to overlook the shortcomings you mentioned. I think Bioshock's character model is apalling but they didn't really matter to me while playing.

In R2, I think the above people never really bought into the game world for whatever reasons. As a result, they become more aware of the technical achievement/shortfalls of the game. This is why you also see the same people making comments about "generic shooter".

To be fair, we don't need "every brick to cast shadow" to achieve the immersiveness. Perhaps Insomniac should look into their criticisms to identify where the gap is (for these people).

Personally, I am enjoying R2 SP but I *know* Insomniac can deliver even more if they spend more time on it. The draw of Insomniac games for me has always been one and only one thing: replayability. The R1 disc hardly left my Blu-ray drive (I played close to 8000 games). I also forgot how many times I have replayed R&C.

*If* Insomniac continues to deliver in this area, then they will be rewarded by high DLC sales. But it would be nice if they could create a game world where more people are drawn to emotionally without relying on pure technologies (yet) -- see LBP, MGS. I think they get more mileage that way.

That's just my hunch. May be totally off.

Cornsnake

05-Nov-2008, 22:23

Should they be mentioned, though, should people pick at them?

I'd say, mentioning the tradeoffs is ok, because that might lead to a better understanding about them. But I wouldn't pick at them as long as the resources are being well spend. Time is also a resource, finding a shadow missing here and there is also a tradeoff. The time it would take to place all these pre baked shadows on the countless small objects in a massive game world, might be better spend elsewhere.

obonicus

05-Nov-2008, 23:04

I'd say, mentioning the tradeoffs is ok, because that might lead to a better understanding about them. But I wouldn't pick at them as long as the resources are being well spend. Time is also a resource, finding a shadow missing here and there is also a tradeoff. The time it would take to place all these pre baked shadows on the countless small objects in a massive game world, might be better spend elsewhere.

Sorry, I think picking was the wrong term. I meant call attention to.

From all the reports, the missing lighting, the poorly-placed objects were immersion-breaking. That's a pretty big complaint coming for first-person-shooter. It's not quite 'a brick didn't have a shadow' that tha_con points out. If you read the Eurogamer review, many of the points were there as well (for instance, Scooter's B+ review in 1up complained about the insta-death camouflaged enemies, while Eurogamer just gave them a passing mention). I mean, 1up's review was actually pretty positive (David Ellis didn't review the game, Thierry Nguyen did), and it brings up most of the problems EG's review does, it's just funny what difference on a review's perception a score makes.

patsu

05-Nov-2008, 23:15

I actually think the Chameleons were fun. You get barely enough warning about their approaches. The reviewers may be being "technical" about it. They should pick another example if they want to illustrate trial-n-error gameplay (It's not like you don't know they were coming).

But to be frank, other shooters have the same problem because well... sometimes you just don't know how many enemy waves there are going to be.

Someone in GAF also complained about "cheap" tactics like too many enemies. Again, it really depends on who you are. If you try to brute force your way through, you'll be frustrated. But if you think quickly on the spot, you may be able to get past the stage. So far, I died at most 3 times in tense situations. Respawns are close to your last death too, you don't have to worry about too much backtracking.

My main criticism about R2 is something else. ^_^
I can feel Insomniac's pulling back in the SP campaign (probably due to project scope management).

tha_con

06-Nov-2008, 01:42

I haven't had many problems with Chameleons at all, really enjoyed them, so much intensity.

So far, going through the houses, I really don't see the problem.

Considering the size and scope of the levels, it's certainly understandable why it is the way it is. Though I really don't expect any reviewers to rationalize or think on their feet...

thambos

06-Nov-2008, 05:45

i really wish they would make the server browser better. there's no connection quality meter and no way i've found to filter results so you don't have to scroll through them all.

i was also hoping they'd change the gun perspective this time, it's still bobbing around in the center like DOOM from 1993. Sort of takes me out of immersion after playing CoD4 & the like.

the story seems better this time, the graphics aren't as improved as i would have liked (& pop in seems prevalent in some levels). the controls are well executed i think though. could use a better cover system then just ducking, that's my only complaint in that dept.

worth the $60 imo, but not as epic as i had hoped.

Malibu

06-Nov-2008, 08:27

I've been really enjoying this. I've only played the campaign so far. I just made it through Chicago and what an awesome mission that is.

SonComet

06-Nov-2008, 08:55

Just completed the 5th of what I assume are going to be 7 chapters. So far I'm really really enjoying this game. My biggest complaint has to be the chameleons though. They just feel flat out cheap to me, and are highly annoying. Titans and other larger chimera seem much harder to me than they were in the first game. Maybe because you fight more at the same time in this one.

Also, in some areas I feel like you can't recover from any mistake. You have to do and go exactly where the game wants you to in that situation or you die very very quickly. That makes the battles feel more scripted to me than in the first game.

Don't hate the boss battles, but don't really enjoy them either. I had way more fun taking down the stalkers and titans in the first game than the bosses I have played so far. Stalkers especially. The more intimate battles with them were more fun for sure.

The level design is far far better to me. The game just feels way more exciting. I love the new guns, especially the changes they made to the auger and newly introduced magnum.

In terms of graphics, I think that the game for the most part looks flat out amazing. Yes it can be refined further, but I think that given how much is happening on the screen with the extremely solid framerate that it looks fantastic. Except for 1 level (the one before chicago I think). It looks comparatively awful. OK at times, but mostly just awful. So does the boss, lol. But besides that, this is one of the best looking games available on the console.

I think the most major strides that insomniac can make are probably in the areas of how they present and tell the story. Maybe they need more time to get together a better script and make both the characters and the story far more compelling. The game is so exciting and fun in itself that this isn't a real problem, but the game could just be pushed that extra mile if they took the time to create a meaningful narrative.

Oh, and when someone is standing right next to me in the game don't make the voice sound like it's coming through a radio. That is so jarring and unnecessary, and I find myself wondering how something so obvious could be overlooked. Especially when it changes speakers and volume based on which way you are facing from the character and your distance from them. If it was a radio that wouldn't happen, and people don't have radiofied voices (yes not even in the 50s). Just another flaw to remind you of the sloppy presentation that thankfully is paired with fantastic gameplay.

Yes I am anal. Yes I love this game. It just hurts to see so many little flaws similar to those in RCF that I feel could be fixed with more time. A lot of little touches (presentation wise) in games like bioshock, uncharted, mgs4, portal, etc are just missing. Wouldn't you rather say, "oh wow, I'm amazed they spent the time to do that" rather than "no one will even notice so why bother?".