Resistance 2 [Archive] - Page 4

Cornsnake

08-Sep-2008, 19:41

Just freeaim, not that hard to see where to middle of the screen is without the dot anyway, do it all the time in CoD4.

Rfom is different from CoD4 in that you'll need more bullets to kill someone, and you can move much faster. In a Carbine battle you'll be circle strafing each other, and trying to make the 11 headshot to kill someone. Hit anywhere else on the body, and it will take more than 25 bullets to kill someone. Accuracy was the Carbine's biggest strength, if you dont use it to make headshots, your better of with another weapon. So having a crosshair is very important. I haven't played R2, but from what heard players weren't happy to lose the crosshair when moving. So Insomniac changed it.

tha_con

08-Sep-2008, 19:46

Rfom is different from CoD4 in that you'll need more bullets to kill someone, and you can move much faster. In a Carbine battle you'll be circle strafing each other, and trying to make the 11 headshot to kill someone. Hit anywhere else on the body, and it will take more than 25 bullets to kill someone. Accuracy was the Carbine's biggest strength, if you dont use it to make headshots, your better of with another weapon. So having a crosshair is very important. I haven't played R2, but from what heard players weren't happy to lose the crosshair when moving. So Insomniac changed it.

I found it to be a bit depressing that those folks cried their bitter eyes out because they had to actually aim now instead of letting the game do all the work for them. The majority of the people in the private beta are absolutely terrible at the game, and it pretty much shows that their stats in R1 were nothing more than a result of the auto aim system and lack of a penalty for moving.

R2 as it is now > R1. Period. Crying shame they are changing it, hopefully it's not too drastic.

Cornsnake

08-Sep-2008, 21:34

I found it to be a bit depressing that those folks cried their bitter eyes out because they had to actually aim now instead of letting the game do all the work for them. The majority of the people in the private beta are absolutely terrible at the game, and it pretty much shows that their stats in R1 were nothing more than a result of the auto aim system and lack of a penalty for moving.

R2 as it is now > R1. Period. Crying shame they are changing it, hopefully it's not too drastic.

I've actually been posting on myres, because of some of the changes they made. Highlighting everything I liked and what worked so well for Rfom, but keeping an open mind as far as letting them experiment with the gameplay, until I play it myself. No penalty while moving was a big part of Rfom, depending on how big the penalty is, it could change the gameplay significantly. Making it closer to something like CoD4. Which way is better will probably come down to a matter of taste. But I do know one thing, Insomniac has always made their games according to what the majority of their fans want. And if most of the beta testers want it like Rfom, that's probably what we'll get.

tha_con

08-Sep-2008, 22:13

I've actually been posting on myres, because of some of the changes they made. Highlighting everything I liked and what worked so well for Rfom, but keeping an open mind as far as letting them experiment with the gameplay, until I play it myself. No penalty while moving was a big part of Rfom, depending on how big the penalty is, it could change the gameplay significantly. Making it closer to something like CoD4. Which way is better will probably come down to a matter of taste. But I do know one thing, Insomniac has always made their games according to what the majority of their fans want. And if most of the beta testers want it like Rfom, that's probably what we'll get.

Well, it's unfortunate that's what we'll get, because I don't want to play Rfom again, I want to play Resistance 2.

No penalty while moving was probably the worst thing about Rfom, right along side the lack of fall damage. Both are in R2, and I really hope it stays that way.

patsu

08-Sep-2008, 22:19

Cornsnake, what's your PSN ID ? Just so I know you're in the beta when I play. I ran into tha_con 2-3 times I think.

Kittonwy

08-Sep-2008, 22:30

Well, it's unfortunate that's what we'll get, because I don't want to play Rfom again, I want to play Resistance 2.

No penalty while moving was probably the worst thing about Rfom, right along side the lack of fall damage. Both are in R2, and I really hope it stays that way.

No movement penalty and the ability to jump down from above to take down a bunch of enemies were two of the BEST things about RFOM, it's all about freedom, everything was accurate and precise, I never had to fight the controls with RFOM, everything was brisk. I don't want to play COD4, I want to play RESISTANCE 2. There was never a real issue with RFOM gameplay, the problem was the graphics, it wasn't competitive with the likes of Gears, and we go from RFOM to TOD to Q4B with NO HDR and NO self-shadowing, both big features lacking from their engine, R2 needs to impress graphically, online gameplay-wise they've already got it nailed with RFOM.

Cornsnake

08-Sep-2008, 22:30

Cornsnake, what's your PSN ID ? Just so I know you're in the beta when I play. I ran into tha_con 2-3 times I think.

My PSN ID is cornsnake, but like I said, I'm not in the beta. At least not until the open beta.

betan

08-Sep-2008, 22:34

Well, it's unfortunate that's what we'll get, because I don't want to play Rfom again, I want to play Resistance 2.

I don't want to play CoD4 with Aliens, I want to play Resistance 2.

No penalty while moving was probably the worst thing about Rfom,

Funny how one's idea of worst is another's best.
I like how Rfom plays like an FPS shoot'em up. Forced stop-and-shoot and faster bullets (especially bullseye) are the two things that will kill this. Simply, unacceptable.

right along side the lack of fall damage.

Seriously?

Kittonwy

08-Sep-2008, 22:37

Just freeaim, not that hard to see where to middle of the screen is without the dot anyway, do it all the time in CoD4.

With RFOM it wasn't just about keeping someone in the center of your screen, when you duel with someone whoever gets the reticle on the other person's head wins, even while both people are trying to move and dodge, there's a lot of skill involved, every weapon can be countered by another weapon, you can block a laark with an auger shield, you can take out someone with a laark if your grenade is right on, 40mm can trump a laark, grenades can go through shields, if someone has a shield on you can park the laark and use the mini-missiles to go around the shield, everything was rock-paper-scissors aided by skill. Every kill is earned with smarts and skill in RFOM, there was no freebee, no perks, no bs, teamwork is always rewarded.

Cornsnake

08-Sep-2008, 22:41

No movement penalty and the ability to jump down from above to take down a bunch of enemies were two of the BEST things about RFOM, it's all about freedom, everything was accurate and precise, I never had to fight the controls with RFOM, everything was brisk. I don't want to play COD4, I want to play RESISTANCE 2. There was never a real issue with RFOM gameplay, the problem was the graphics, it wasn't competitive with the likes of Gears, and we go from RFOM to TOD to Q4B with NO HDR and NO self-shadowing, both big features lacking from their engine, R2 needs to impress graphically, online gameplay-wise they've already got it nailed with RFOM.

I pretty much agree with this. Rfom was the best online shooter I've ever played. The combination of fast gameplay and the high number of hits it took to kill someone, made it unlike any FPS. Changing it more towards conventional shooters is the last thing I want. Even if it means very little changes between Rfom and R2.

patsu

08-Sep-2008, 23:37

With RFOM it wasn't just about keeping someone in the center of your screen, when you duel with someone whoever gets the reticle on the other person's head wins, even while both people are trying to move and dodge, there's a lot of skill involved, every weapon can be countered by another weapon, you can block a laark with an auger shield, you can take out someone with a laark if your grenade is right on, 40mm can trump a laark, grenades can go through shields, if someone has a shield on you can park the laark and use the mini-missiles to go around the shield, everything was rock-paper-scissors aided by skill. Every kill is earned with smarts and skill in RFOM, there was no freebee, no perks, no bs, teamwork is always rewarded.

Yap ! switching weapon on-the-fly is fun too. Toggling between Carbine, Arc Charger and shotgun in the middle of a fight is not uncommon among high level players.

There's incredible depth in RFOM's simplicity once you get used to the speed. Initially I had trouble keeping up. If I left the game for a week or two, I had to catch up with the other players.

RenegadeRocks

09-Sep-2008, 11:21

So, from this discussion, what I gather is that Insomniac has changed the playstyle quite a bit and some are liking it and some not.
Personally, I think the game should be altered a bit with every sequel. That way you get the sense of discovering, understanding and then mastering the playstyle with every installment.
If a game stays the same in the sequel, then it can get boring pretty fast as you have already mastered the playstyle and all that remains to be done is shoot some more while doing the same. If the the playstyle required to master it is changed a bit, it will bring back the excitement of trying and testing different ways to find out what works the best this time around. To me, that is what involves the player in a game and separates it from what people call "generic shooter" which is what one will feel if one already knows how to master it.

So, logically, the game should be changed, and that is why I am still optimistic about it and want them to change stuff around. I believe they must know their limits themselves and we don't have to teach them.

I hope they don't roll back too much, but I do have to say moving fast while shooting was an integral part of RFOM and should stay.

Kittonwy

09-Sep-2008, 14:40

I don't think it's as much "change" that is needed as opposed to IMPROVEMENTS. There were certainly things that could have been improved from RFOM, such as graphics, the level of cinematic immersion, the level of tactile and visual feedback when it comes to weapons and enemy reactions, the environments needing to convey that atmosphere, but things like movement speed, aiming, turning, just general controls was really balanced and smooth, easy and accessible when it comes to MP in RFOM, that's not something I would mess with, it's like controls going from HALO1 to HALO2 to HALO3, I might tweak it a bit but I wouldn't try to revamp something that works really well.

Cornsnake

09-Sep-2008, 17:20

From what I've heard, when the private beta started, the movement was slower, you needed less hits to kill someone, aiming without ironsight was less accurate, there are no weapon pick ups in the Skirmish gamemode, you can't throw grenades as far, you can select the weapon you want to start with, and the 2 weapons limit. And from what I've heard, most weren't to happy with some of these changes, comparing the game to CoD4. Now Insomniac has made the game more like Rfom, but not completely like it.

I think they should have kept the movement, aiming, number of hits needed, grenade throwing, and carrying all weapons the same. And just focus on new weapons, gamemodes, community support. But I won't know for sure until I play it in the open beta, and so waiting continues.

patsu

09-Sep-2008, 18:25

^_^ Not supposed to talk about the beta but I am happier now than when first started. The internal beta is still in progress. Things are shaping up pretty quickly but not everything is in yet (I think). I had 4 rounds of R2 yesterday and then the whole night of R1 (plus troubleshooting stuff at work). :oops:

tha_con

09-Sep-2008, 19:05

RenegadeRocks

09-Sep-2008, 20:38

I can honestly say, when I play R2, I feel like I'm being competitive, even if I die 10 times in a row.

When I play R1, I feel like I'm in a crap shoot as to who has the most powerful weapon, and who get's the 1up on me and starts shooting first. Nothing else matters.

Wow ! Now that's a comment :wink: !

Hmmmm...I see patsu and you have quite different views on the beta. Guess we'll have to wait till the open beta to hear out you guys' views openly !

tha_con

09-Sep-2008, 20:56

Cornsnake

09-Sep-2008, 21:27

I can honestly say, when I play R2, I feel like I'm being competitive, even if I die 10 times in a row.

When I play R1, I feel like I'm in a crap shoot as to who has the most powerful weapon, and who get's the 1up on me and starts shooting first. Nothing else matters.

In Rfom, there was no most powerful weapon (not counting the Laark and 40mm grenade here), it came down to which was the right weapon in the right situation against another weapon. Which is also why I feel we should be able to carry more then 2. And the long life bar allowed you to make quick decisions, to try and turn thing back in your favour when someone get the drop on you. In a game like CoD4, you'll be dead before your back is turned.

I guess no matter how R2 turns out, It won't be to everyone's liking.

RenegadeRocks

10-Sep-2008, 12:22

OPen beta applications are being accepted now! I have applied :)

Go do it right now!

RenegadeRocks

10-Sep-2008, 12:27

Yea, but I'll tell you right now, I'm in the minority. Big time. I've run into maybe 2 or 3 people who share my same thoughts on some things in the beta, while everyone else pretty much wants R1 back with R2 maps, graphics, and game modes.

Well, you can count me in. I want R2, not R1 with revamped graphics. Don't misunderstand me, I love R1, but I need a fresh game but it needs to stay unique and not ape COD4. People generally are not patient enough to accept change and adjust accordingly. A lot of people just want to rule the MP as soon as they get the game, so, obviously they'll shout for the same game mechanics again as they are well versed with it. I want a livened up Resistance when I buy my disc.Something that challenges me again and makes work through it like the first one did.

but then I can't give my views unless I play it myself.:roll:

Nesh

10-Sep-2008, 12:55

OPen beta applications are being accepted now! I have applied :)

Go do it right now!
WHERE???

RenegadeRocks

10-Sep-2008, 13:09

https://beta.myresistance.net/en-us/Apply/BetaForm

here

Nesh

10-Sep-2008, 13:26

Thanks you my friend :)

RenegadeRocks

10-Sep-2008, 13:44

Lets hope we make it in ;) ! i wonder what criteria they'll use to select who goes in :roll: !

Nesh

10-Sep-2008, 14:02

I suspect hours of online play per week which I didnt put very many (chose the second option).

I wonder if I did the right thing :razz:

RenegadeRocks

10-Sep-2008, 15:53

The funny thing is I chose the second option too :lol: !

tha_con

10-Sep-2008, 16:09

In Rfom, there was no most powerful weapon (not counting the Laark and 40mm grenade here), it came down to which was the right weapon in the right situation against another weapon. Which is also why I feel we should be able to carry more then 2. And the long life bar allowed you to make quick decisions, to try and turn thing back in your favour when someone get the drop on you. In a game like CoD4, you'll be dead before your back is turned.

I guess no matter how R2 turns out, It won't be to everyone's liking.

Uhhh...you can't say there was not a weapon more powerful than the other and then exclude the two biggest prosecuters. Most high level players form groups and immediately camp weapon spawns for LAARKs and 40mm grenades. Loading up on LAARKs, 40mm's, and grenades pretty much made you a tank from long range. use a LAARK and you can take out a small squad. 40mm's are good for 1 or 2 people. Grenades? You have TONS to stock up on, and can use AirFuel grenades to corner folks and kill them with whatever long range weapon you chose.

Fact is, Resistance 1 had great weapon balance, but the ability to make yourself a walking tank was NOT balance, and it destroyed the game. That, and the lack of any penalty for moving while shooting and jumping off of high platforms.

patsu

10-Sep-2008, 16:36

tha_con

10-Sep-2008, 17:15

Depends on what you are looking for in the game. R1 is more than adequate for a quick and intense experience. The only thing hard about R1 is the speed.

The additional constraints you suggest adds more "technical" balance but they also complicate matters (Makes it less enjoyable for "arcady" fun). LAARK and 40mm are powerful, but a seasoned player have ways to counter or avoid them. The long ranged grenades you mentioned are good counters for LAARK too (if you see them before they see you). Grenades are generally not a problem because it requires skills to throw them well.

Grenades didn't require as much "skill" as most seem to think, as the grenade generally traveled to wherever you point your crosshairs to.

To top it off, a LAARK / Grenade battle usually ends with both players dying, or the LAARK winning out.

Those layers do add more technical balance, as it makes everything easily accessible and balanced. Skirmish simply wouldn't be as fun or intense with weapon spawns or an all weapon system, nor is it going ot be very fun with faster characters, since you'll be running back and forth between control points / VIP's.

The speed now is wonderful, and more accessible to folks. Most people who didn't like R1 online didn't like the speed, and where it is now makes it more accesible to folks, which gives it a better change to succeed financially, which will eventually result in a 3rd installment into the series (on an HD console).

Honestly, I think the game should stay the way it is, and everyone should just adjust, it's not that bad, it's being blown WAY out of proportion because folks want it ot be R1 with new maps and modes. These are the SAME FOLKS who likely complain about buying Madden every year with little to no improvement.

(BTW, nothing against you man! We played a few games online in Co-op, great fun, I just tend to disagree with the opinion that it needs to be closer to R1).

Cornsnake

10-Sep-2008, 19:39

Uhhh...you can't say there was not a weapon more powerful than the other and then exclude the two biggest prosecuters. Most high level players form groups and immediately camp weapon spawns for LAARKs and 40mm grenades. Loading up on LAARKs, 40mm's, and grenades pretty much made you a tank from long range. use a LAARK and you can take out a small squad. 40mm's are good for 1 or 2 people. Grenades? You have TONS to stock up on, and can use AirFuel grenades to corner folks and kill them with whatever long range weapon you chose.

Fact is, Resistance 1 had great weapon balance, but the ability to make yourself a walking tank was NOT balance, and it destroyed the game. That, and the lack of any penalty for moving while shooting and jumping off of high platforms.

In the last update on Rfom they lowered the respawn counter on the Laark and 40mm grenade. That's when the weapon whoring became too much. I only use them against people who used them on me. Most people in our clan felt that way. We would pick them up so they couldn't use them against us, and end up having to find someone in the clan who didn't already have one ir we found another one. And in clanwars the Laark was banned 90% of the time.

patsu

10-Sep-2008, 19:50

(BTW, nothing against you man! We played a few games online in Co-op, great fun, I just tend to disagree with the opinion that it needs to be closer to R1).

No hard feelings here ^_^

Grenades didn't require as much "skill" as most seem to think, as the grenade generally traveled to wherever you point your crosshairs to.

Argh, not so. In practise, it allows for much creativity during gun fight.

I am referring to situations where you need to deal with 2 or more opponents at the same time: Depending on the grenade type, timing and lobing a grenade at incoming enemies, and then engage with another one in front of you. A lot of it is by gut feel because things happen so fast.

There are also times when the enemies sniped from obscure corners and sheltered towers. Very often, it's either you or him within split seconds. Finding the right (unblocked) angle to throw is critical. If he's far enough, I cannot aim the throw at the cross hair.

To top it off, a LAARK / Grenade battle usually ends with both players dying, or the LAARK winning out.

Yes, mostly; but it's possible to counter as long as you can pull the right weapon in time. It is gratifying to see the LAARK blow back when you use Auger, or sniped a LAARker at the same time he killed you, or grenaded him and his buddies at the last minute, etc. ^_^

It is not often, but people cherish these moments and hope to repeat them.

The speed now is wonderful, and more accessible to folks. Most people who didn't like R1 online didn't like the speed, and where it is now makes it more accesible to folks, which gives it a better change to succeed financially, which will eventually result in a 3rd installment into the series (on an HD console).

Speed is the one I think requires further tweaking. I agree with you somewhat, but at the same time, I just find the speed addictive. :)

Tough decisions.

Kittonwy

11-Sep-2008, 00:04

Speed and accuracy good, slow and inaccurate bad.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v500/EvilTaru/angry.gif

tha_con

11-Sep-2008, 16:35

Speed and accuracy good, slow and inaccurate bad.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v500/EvilTaru/angry.gif

I'm beginning to think my being in the Army (you know, brainwashed and all) has something to do with my appreciation for R2.

Slow is fast, slow is effecient.

I understand why people might like the ease of R1, where you just have to point at someones head and shoot, but it felt so...uninvolved, in a way, to me. This feels much more engaging and visceral.

Cheezdoodles

11-Sep-2008, 16:46

Cant you just up the sensitivity to max and aim fast and effective?

patsu

11-Sep-2008, 17:44

Short answer is yes. Long answer is (I think) a game is designed around some optimal speed. So the feel is different even if you fine tune your own control.

EDIT: I don't know about inaccurate aiming though. Don't seem to get that in R2. I think the beta has been really helpful so far to set expectations and also get a little more understanding behind the scene. Some of our feedback seems to have made it. I hope more do.

tha_con

11-Sep-2008, 22:33

I really don't think R2's aiming system is inaccurate, I just think people are so accustomed to letting the auto aim take over while they use only the right stick to strafe has caused them to get comfortable. Playing a lot of UT3, CoD4, Halo 3, and R6V, I fell right into R2 and had a blast. It seems like a lot of the folks who hate it are the ones who played R1 almost exclusively.

patsu

12-Sep-2008, 01:24

Ha ha, damn you ! I used to play Halo 1 and 2 every night. UT3 was ok, but I didn't enjoy CoD4 as much.

I think Kittonwy is talking about something else in R2 (Not inaccuracy but specific weapon traits). Anyway, I don't want to talk too much about R2. Will check back with the beta forum to see if I get flamed for my feedback ^_^

RenegadeRocks

12-Sep-2008, 07:33

http://www.gamespot.com/ps3/action/resistance2/news.html?sid=6197590

Gamespot Qn A with Ted Price :wink: !

The game is just about finished as I write this. Yet the three to four weeks before we deliver a final disc to the factory are always the most difficult. This is when we're fixing bugs, adding tons of polish, making tuning tweaks, and trying to keep our builds stable for the testing team. What's great is that all of our features are in, and the game is looking, sounding, and playing fantastic. Resistance 2 has become everything we hoped it would be.

Co-op has a branching structure where players can choose to move through the game in different ways. This ensures that there is tremendous replay value for the co-op mode.

RenegadeRocks

12-Sep-2008, 07:57

During the last three or four years, we've been continuously improving our engine, our in-game systems, and our tools. The returns we've seen from these efforts include many behind-the-scenes improvements that enable us to support a better game experience. For example our "hidden" tech improvements result in more enemies running better AI routines, larger and more detailed environments, seamless loading between levels, more believable atmospheric effects--the list goes on and on.

And, then, there are the really cool tech improvements that everyone should notice right away. Two of my favorites are a) the vastly improved shaders on both characters and environment objects and b) our revamped lighting system, which uses a combination of dynamic and baked lighting to create more vibrant environments. As a result, the game looks very different from Resistance: Fall of Man.

But one improvement I think everyone will notice is our new water. It's refractive, reflective, and can be tuned to create anything from muddy swamp water to a crystal clear Caribbean shoreline. It's fully interactive--meaning characters create very believable ripples and waves as they move around in it.

Does this mean no more loading? Will it be seamless like Uncharted and God of War? Has he confirmed it before?

the ignoramus

12-Sep-2008, 15:52

I want to see R2's water in action, because it will probably be the most visually impressive element of the game. The water shaders at the very end of the E3 R2 trailer looked damn incredible.

DrJay24

12-Sep-2008, 17:58

Does this mean no more loading?

I think they use FMV to hide loading like Heavenly Sword.

deepbrown

13-Sep-2008, 18:47

I want to see R2's water in action, because it will probably be the most visually impressive element of the game. The water shaders at the very end of the E3 R2 trailer looked damn incredible.

This is the amazing tech they were talking about. *Predicts realtime flooding of city* :)

patsu

13-Sep-2008, 18:51

WTH... that's just irresponsible prediction :-P

If they can do real-time flooding, they should do a game on Moses instead of WWII aliens.

RenegadeRocks

13-Sep-2008, 19:42

WTH... that's just irresponsible prediction :-P

If they can do real-time flooding, they should do a game on Moses instead of WWII aliens.

LOL ! :lol: Anyways it would be great to see flooding water while you kill hordes of Grims ! that would make it a timed objective ! Also, if it gets too flooded you can swim but the Water chimeras( reapers or something) will bite your ass off :razz:!

Any news on when the public beta starts ?

EDIT: The Gamestop Managers' Convention presentation for Gears2 is out at gamrvideos, lets hope R2 video will come out soon too. They said they'll be showing new SP section !

Cornsnake

13-Sep-2008, 21:28

Any news on when the public beta starts ?

The public beta starts early October. And we should get info on, how to get in the public beta if you live in europe, very soon.

RenegadeRocks

14-Sep-2008, 10:16

The public beta starts early October. And we should get info on, how to get in the public beta if you live in europe, very soon.

The info is out my friend, look at page 31 of this thread !:smile:

deepbrown

14-Sep-2008, 10:27

WTH... that's just irresponsible prediction :-P

If they can do real-time flooding, they should do a game on Moses instead of WWII aliens.

I don't think it's irresponsible. I'm presuming here...but the level shown to everyone with the big beastie - it was swashling around in water. If that is Chicago (could be San Fran) then we've already seen gameplay where the streets aren't flooded...thus my presumption is we'll see it get flooded (this may be a bit close to home due to horrible hurricaine Iche.) Maybe it won't be realtime though.

And the water already looks good in the online San Fran level :) Good to hear they're adding the reaction. Plus we know there are swimming chimera this time... :D

Cornsnake

14-Sep-2008, 13:03

The info is out my friend, look at page 31 of this thread !:smile:

If your talking about the www.beta.myresistance.net site, that won't guarantee you access to the beta. Pre ordering it will and so will subscribing to Qore. Both aren't really available in Europe. But they will announce a sure fire way for europeans to get in soon.

RenegadeRocks

14-Sep-2008, 15:22

If your talking about the www.beta.myresistance.net site, that won't guarantee you access to the beta. Pre ordering it will and so will subscribing to Qore. Both aren't really available in Europe. But they will announce a sure fire way for europeans to get in soon.

Oh ! that.

patsu

14-Sep-2008, 16:30

And the water already looks good in the online San Fran level :) Good to hear they're adding the reaction. Plus we know there are swimming chimera this time... :D

I heard some rumbling about this, but can Nathan swim this time ? Is there a new weapon ? Or does he just fire at the water Chimera from land (e.g., using Auger) ?

Shifty Geezer

14-Sep-2008, 17:33

Is it jsut a coincidence Nathan Hale and Nathan Drake share the same first name?

deepbrown

14-Sep-2008, 17:35

I heard some rumbling about this, but can Nathan swim this time ? Is there a new weapon ? Or does he justfire at the water Chimera from land (e.g., using Auger) ?

Yup he can. There are lots of new weapons...dont think he can go under water though.

patsu

14-Sep-2008, 19:21

Is it jsut a coincidence Nathan Hale and Nathan Drake share the same first name?

Heh, I wonder about that before. Did the NaughtyDog and Insomniac guys agree on a bet to create the best "Nathan" character ? Or do they have a common friend named "Nathan" ? :lol:

They can't be more different. One is bald, battle hardened and hardly human anymore. The other is a regular whimpy guy with a knack for treasure hunting.

RenegadeRocks

14-Sep-2008, 19:44

Heh, I wonder about that before. Did the NaughtyDog and Insomniac guys agree on a bet to create the best "Nathan" character ? Or do they have a common friend named "Nathan" ? :lol:

They can't be more different. One is bald, battle hardened and hardly human anymore. The other is a regular whimpy guy with a knack for treasure hunting.

Yeah, but they both rock ! they are two wonderful games of my catalogue :wink: !
I wonder if Snake's real name was nathan too :lol: , maybe Ratchet was called Nathan in his home planet :lol: !

Edit: I guess the lack of ps3 on my table is driving me sad and making me say such stupidities :( !

Shifty Geezer

14-Sep-2008, 20:36

The other is a regular whimpy guy with a knack for treasure hunting.Wimpy?! The guy can jump up his own height using his arms!

Cheezdoodles

14-Sep-2008, 22:00

One is bald, battle hardened and hardly human anymore. The other is a regular whimpy guy with a knack for treasure hunting.

Doesn't Resistance 1 use auto-aim? If so, he is hardly impressive

djskribbles

14-Sep-2008, 22:04

single player RFOM doesn't have AA on by default.

patsu

15-Sep-2008, 01:48

Wimpy?! The guy can jump up his own height using his arms!

Heh... yes. It always amuses me when I see Nathan scale the fortress with his bare hands but he looks so vulnerable in front of that show host.

Doesn't Resistance 1 use auto-aim? If so, he is hardly impressive

Well, auto-aim or not, if someone ventured voluntarily and alone into monster infested tunnels and their base, he would be impressive by any measure.

RenegadeRocks

15-Sep-2008, 07:38

Doesn't Resistance 1 use auto-aim? If so, he is hardly impressive

How does the auto-aim work in R:FOM? I didn't motice it in my three playthroughs.Whereas, in The Darkness demo I could see the crosshair snapping to enemies. I couldn't see any snapping of the crosshair or tendency to stay on the enemy in R:FOM, in fact, my crosshair used to be swaying side to side when I started playing R:FOM :lol: as I was mainly a PC gamer before that and had lost touch with my ps2 after God of War II.

No, seriously, how does it work?

Arwin

15-Sep-2008, 07:44

It's subtle - all it does is while you move your aim to an enemy, it stops just that little sooner while over an enemy than while not. At least, if I remember correctly. There may be other subtle assists. No snapping to though as far as I know.

patsu

15-Sep-2008, 23:29

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12810850&postcount=441

New Resistance screenies. Not sure where they are from (small though).

Don't know how much freedom you have in these locations. If the MP beta is any indication, you should have quite a bit of ground to cover.

RenegadeRocks

16-Sep-2008, 07:34

Just something that came to my mind- Is there only one 60 player map in R2?
I think I heard that in the podcast, but can't confirm though. Is the 60 player map there in the beta you guys are playing?

patsu

16-Sep-2008, 10:07

There were more than one large maps. Don't know if they are for 60 players. Can't wait for the public beta so that I can talk about the maps more. ;-)

Cornsnake

16-Sep-2008, 17:02

On the last podcast they said, all the maps could scale between 60, 40, 30, 20 and 10 players. And some maps having more then one version for 20 or 10 players. Making a total of 70 versions across the different sizes. That should be more than enough.:smile:

patsu

16-Sep-2008, 17:09

Ok. that makes sense... essentially like R1. Although one of the maps I saw (only once !) @_@ <insert your favorite expletives here>

morlock

16-Sep-2008, 19:13

single player RFOM doesn't have AA on by default.

What?

tha_con

16-Sep-2008, 19:43

What?

He means auto aim :wink:

RenegadeRocks

16-Sep-2008, 20:03

He means auto aim :wink:

Yeah! :smile: I was confused about that for quite some time too! I was wondering Turning on Anti Aliasing???? in a console game??? Took me sometime to understand. Heh ! heh!
I don't remember turning it on though, seems like I played without it then :wink: !

@Cornsnake: I don't think all maps can scale, as all maps are not that huge to support 60 player battles. I'll have to listen to the podcast again, but all can't be 60 player, but yes, the 60 player map can have some areas shut out for smaller skirmishes.
I think it was episode 31 or 32 of the podcast where they mentioned the no. of 60 player maps. I'll check.

EDIT: I checked the podcast, they are mentioning that one whole 60 player map is divided into 40 MP map, and 2 20 player and 4 10 player maps and so on, multiple variations!

tha_con

16-Sep-2008, 21:48

I'm pretty sure Insomniac will have every map scale down in size.

The question is if all the maps will support 60 players, or if only a select few will support 60 players.

Nightware

16-Sep-2008, 22:09

I remember there was a talk about randomized geometry in this game, what is it exactly?Enyone seen it?

patsu

16-Sep-2008, 22:26

Never saw it. Never heard of the rumor. :no:

Cornsnake

16-Sep-2008, 22:42

Ok. that makes sense... essentially like R1. Although one of the maps I saw (only once !) @_@ <insert your favorite expletives here>

Some of the maps in Rfom were very rare indeed. Most of the huge 40 player TDM maps I've only seen a few times. Like the 40 player Manchester and Grimsby maps. And of coarse the larger versions the map packs maps were never seen. I've had 16 player maps at best on those. Such a waste, and only because Sony refuses to make them free of charge.

RenegadeRocks

17-Sep-2008, 12:34

I remember there was a talk about randomized geometry in this game, what is it exactly?Enyone seen it?

Yeah ! Long back Ted Price had said that the co-op campaign will have some geometry that will be randomnised for each playhtrough to make it a little different every time. Main objects that define gameplay will remain static , of course.
Its been a long time since this was mentioned. I wonder if its still there or has been dropped :roll: ! Can somebody on Neogaf ask this question to jstevenson ? I , for some damn reason, am not able to post there even months after registration :evil:.

Nightware

17-Sep-2008, 12:41

It sounds like this game will blast gamers with feature after feature.

Arwin

17-Sep-2008, 13:42

RenegadeRocks

17-Sep-2008, 14:08

I have tried to register twice, both times I didn't receive posting priviledges even after 6 months. Starting to become quite the elistist board. Wonder if they exclude non-U.S. residents now by default or something.

They don't seem so elite from the mindless discussions they have :roll: !
Anyways, can patsu or Kittowny ask it there ?

Arwin

17-Sep-2008, 14:15

Yes, I've already vowed not to take part in discussions there should I ever get posting priviledges, but restrict myself to sharing information and thanking the occasional programmer or podcast creator there. ;) (I listen to almost all gaming podcasts these days))

FirewalkR

17-Sep-2008, 14:56

At GAF they tend to accept new member registrations by the bucketload, but seemingly accept everyone. Iirc the only requirement was that you had to use a "valid" e-mail address, meaning that a gmail or similarly free account won't work.
These last few days I've been lurking more over here (and haven't posted much in either board), seems like there have been less interesting game related announcements and more cool gaming tech stuff showing up. :)

Arwin

17-Sep-2008, 15:00

The first time I actually got an email that I was refused, and that I did not ' meet requirements' or something or other.

FirewalkR

17-Sep-2008, 15:05

The first time I actually got an email that I was refused, and that I did not ' meet requirements' or something or other.

Could have been the e-mail address. Or else their relentless background check procedure uncovered some dirt about you no one else knows about! Confess! :lol:

Arwin

17-Sep-2008, 15:12

I've tried my own domain, and I've tried my work address. Both no-go.

patsu

17-Sep-2008, 15:23

It took me many moons to get in too. In fact, I forgot about the whole thing and then decided to sign in after a year. Voila ! and I was in with posting privileges. I think the mods probably approve new folks in batches (thousands at a time).

tha_con

17-Sep-2008, 15:25

I used to post on GAF....*cries*

Kind of sad to see Girl With a Stick rendered useless on my HDD...I'm going to seriously miss the game as it was, if the changes are as drastic as they sound from more recent podcasts...

Either way, the game will be day one for me, and I will own many people with my trusty Marksman and / or Bullseye.

Arwin

17-Sep-2008, 15:25

Sure but I started late 2006. That's ridiculous. Besides, my first attempt was explicitly denied after about 4-5 months.

EDIT: my first registration attempt was denied on 1 december 2007, after god knows how long waiting, with this message:

Dear Arwin,

Unfortunately your registration at NeoGAF did not meet our membership requirements. Therefore your registration was deleted.

Sorry,
NeoGAF

10 days later I tried again, on 10 december 2007, and I still can't post today. Such drama! :D

RenegadeRocks

17-Sep-2008, 15:26

Hmmm... I have been waiting for 4 or 5 months now, but lets not take this thread off-topic, its a very nice thread and we want it to keep going :wink:.
So, patsu all eyes on you then ! Ask it for us and we'll wait......:cool:

Cornsnake

17-Sep-2008, 17:32

If you want ask questions about Resistance 2, why not try posting them on www.myresistance.net? You can find jstevenson on there, and you can start posting immediately after you register.

RenegadeRocks

17-Sep-2008, 19:41

Frankly speaking the site is all messed up in its layout. Finding stuff in it already feels like a frustrating game :wink: ! Well, now that you reminded me of it I'll go there immediately :cool: !

EDIT: I asked there and the damned buggers locked my thread :evil: ! They thought I was inciting people to talk about the beta, DAMN THEM ! I had very clearly mentioned that I am talking about the announcement by Ted Price and that my question is pointed towards jstevenson !! They seem to be tenterhooks about R2 questions:evil: ! The mod didn't even read mypost properly before bloody locking it!
Damn the mod, i sent a PM to jstevenson :D !

Cornsnake

17-Sep-2008, 21:07

Yeah it took my a while to find my way around there. The community is huge considering it's all for one game.

I think your thread got locked because that other guy was talking about the beta, when he wasn't supposed to. There have many threads about the beta, and the mods seem to get a little frustrated about that. Locking many threads, and wanting people to wait until the public beta.

patsu

17-Sep-2008, 21:56

I think the devs are all in crunch mode now. Be patient. Sending PM to jstevenson should do the trick. I have exchanged one or two messages with him before.

ultragpu

18-Sep-2008, 04:59

I think the devs are all in crunch mode now. Be patient. Sending PM to jstevenson should do the trick. I have exchanged one or two messages with him before.
the man just confirmed on neogaf that a brand new footage will be shown by today, depends on the timezone. apparently it's already in the hands of a media outlet and it's not the Splicer trailer we've seen. yeah, about time we see all those water refelction, light scattering and the highly classified tech and what not.

slider

18-Sep-2008, 11:44

the man just confirmed on neogaf that a brand new footage will be shown by today, depends on the timezone. apparently it's already in the hands of a media outlet and it's not the Splicer trailer we've seen. yeah, about time we see all those water refelction, light scattering and the highly classified tech and what not.

I'm hoping it'll be on the PSN - having not paid much attention to previous R2 media.

RenegadeRocks

18-Sep-2008, 14:37

Jeez guys... just cause I upload it to a site doesn't mean it's going up today.

Sometime tomorrow...

JS

Thats from jstevenson in myresistance.net !

tha_con

18-Sep-2008, 14:46

Cannot WAIT to see the new footage :D

RenegadeRocks

18-Sep-2008, 15:10

The blog says this trailer will be longer than the earlier one and focus more on Hale. Also, it will have some "eyebrow raising" footage :wink:!
http://www.insomniacgames.com/news/

Now, all we can do is wait :roll: !

FirewalkR

18-Sep-2008, 15:21

Come to me, sweet sweet water tech! :twisted:

slider

18-Sep-2008, 15:23

RenegadeRocks

18-Sep-2008, 15:30

Well, thats bad for me if it is on the store, as my ps3 has gone for replacemnt :( !
(my 4850 came back from replacement today, btw :) !)

slider

18-Sep-2008, 15:38

Ahh, no gameplay in it though Renegade. IMO it is quite compelling though.

Cornsnake

18-Sep-2008, 15:59

There's a R2 vid on the UK Store - DL'ing, not sure if it's new or not though. It's a biggie though: 319MB.

And i may not be able to recognise it as new or not - seeing as I don't gobble up game media.

That's an older trailer that has finally made it to the EU PSN store. BryanI on myres. said the new trailer isn't going to be in the PSN store this week. It seems Sony likes to take things a little slower then the rest of the world.

RenegadeRocks

18-Sep-2008, 16:00

@slider:Is it new or the one in which the radio jockey is talking in the background? If its that then its old.

FirewalkR

18-Sep-2008, 16:04

From what I read @ GAF, it's the Twisted History trailer. No gameplay, just some background history. It's cool though if you haven't seen it.

slider

18-Sep-2008, 16:07

That's an older trailer that has finally made it to the EU PSN store. BryanI on myres. said the new trailer isn't going to be in the PSN store this week. It seems Sony likes to take things a little slower then the rest of the world.

For some reason I was under the impression JStevenson said there would be new media hitting today. Closer to launch I start paying attention!

@slider:Is it new or the one in which the radio jockey is talking in the background? If its that then its old.

You will will have seen Cornsnake cleared it up. I tried to find it on Gametrailers but no luck. It's labelled "Leipzig" and features a voice that begins in 1908 an unexplained explosion flattens more than 2000 square kilometres of Siberian forest.... I'm not sure it's a radio jockey but I'm guessing it's the one you're thinking of?

EDIT: God, why didn't I just say it was the Twisted History trailer like FirewalkR said? Duh. It is pretty compelling if you haven't seen it before.

RenegadeRocks

18-Sep-2008, 16:16

Yeah ! Seen that one! Its pretty sweet the way they have made transitions in it ! It'll be cool to have a 720p version of it :wink: !
Also points out that the history and the story of Resistance is being pulled tighter together ! now its not just some fantasy story, but a good fantasy story, i guess :) !

tha_con

18-Sep-2008, 16:36

The lore and story of Resistance is, IMO, one of the best out there for First Person Shooters. So good.

Cornsnake

18-Sep-2008, 18:39

For some reason I was under the impression JStevenson said there would be new media hitting today. Closer to launch I start paying attention!

There should be a new trailer hitting today. Just not in the PSN store. Where it will hit, I don't know, I don't think that's been confirmed. I do know that the new trailer will be longer than the Twisted History trailer.

Edit. There is a new Insomniac podcast going up tonight. Maybe they'll confirm it there.

slider

18-Sep-2008, 18:47

It was a forlorn hope that it'd be on the PSN.

And like you I haven't seen any hints on where it'll hit either.

I'm sure it'll come across my radar sooner rather than later.

Cheers.

patsu

18-Sep-2008, 22:41

It's up ! http://ps3.ign.com/dor/objects/14211237/resistance-2/videos/resis2_ign_convoy_091708.html

We finally have in-game cutscenes to carry the Resistance story.

BTW, Orick CA is one of the levels in the internal beta.

D3B

19-Sep-2008, 00:57

Amazing camera work, and graphics are definitely some of the best yet.:cool:

RenegadeRocks

19-Sep-2008, 06:16

Whooohooooo !!!!!!!! :D

It doesn't even look like its Resistance anymore ! ha Ha! Well executed cutscenes with DOF and all cinematic flair? Whoa ! is it even Insomniac!:twisted:
I like what I sees ! Insomniac has grown up and Resistance has matured with it ! The only thing lacking in Resistance has been fullfilled (except for the lighting tech)! I love you Insomniac :razz: !

Edit: Hale's lipsync shapes seem a little wierd though.

Shifty Geezer

19-Sep-2008, 08:10

Edit: Hale's lipsync shapes seem a little wierd though.Looks like he's pouting. And those marines deserved to die. Any who'll stand in hail of gunfire firing blindly back without finding cover deserves everything they get!

RenegadeRocks

19-Sep-2008, 09:50

Looks like he's pouting. And those marines deserved to die. Any who'll stand in hail of gunfire firing blindly back without finding cover deserves everything they get!

Well, Hale was doing the same ! in fact I was thinking while watching that what kind of Hero would just stand like that in the middle of such heavy fire :???:!
No bullet can touch Nathan Hale :evil: , he can get toppled by blasts though:roll: :lol: !

ultragpu

19-Sep-2008, 13:07

wow, were those cloaking chimeras? and the lighting and DOF are so good i find it hard to belive it's Resistance 2 i was watching! Patsu, what can you comment on the graphical similarities between this and the Beta?

patsu

19-Sep-2008, 13:35

The internal beta was a work-in-progress, and I didn't get to see any cutscenes. The public beta is next month. I was impressed by something else, but were struggling somewhat to keep up with the new gameplay. You can see for yourself when the time comes :-)

Nesh

19-Sep-2008, 13:36

RenegadeRocks

19-Sep-2008, 14:07

ultragpu

19-Sep-2008, 15:02

Cheezdoodles

19-Sep-2008, 15:27

Ted Price said that all cutscenes are rendered in the same engine, but rendered earlier and saved as a movie file on the disc. So, its the same engine, but lighting n all is upped and rendered and saved out as a movie file.

In other words: Cutscenes are pre-rendered in engine.

Kindof shows what the engine is capable of for the future, but in game will have lesser quality than this.

Nope, as we have no idea how effective the rendering methods used are, since they are pre-renders.

It doesn't mean anything at all, certainly no indication of where the engine is heading for the future as we dont know how much these lighting techniques etc that are applied costs. For all we know it could be rendered @ 1 fps.

RenegadeRocks

19-Sep-2008, 15:30

Cheezdoodles

19-Sep-2008, 15:53

Exactly What I said. It could be rendered at 1 fps, but the effects you see are the effects that have been implemented in the engine. Even if they are not optimised enough to be used, they exist in the engine.

So what?

Implementing effects when you dont have to care about performance isn't particularly hard.

Plenty of games that have "in-engine" prerendered cutscenes that uses techniques that are simply impossible to on current hardware in a game at a decent framerate.

It doesn't mean that the engine will utilize this tech in realtime in the future. (mostly because with new hardware we usually build new engine, and because we develop "smarter" rendering techniques all the time.

Again, it means nothing at all.

ultragpu

19-Sep-2008, 17:58

why cant insomniac just release a gameplay trailer of their latest build, releasing a cutscene albeit a very pretty one would just confuse more people and create more questions than answers.

Shifty Geezer

19-Sep-2008, 18:07

Ted Price said that all cutscenes are rendered in the same engine, but rendered earlier and saved as a movie file on the disc. So, its the same engine, but lighting n all is upped and rendered and saved out as a movie file.
Kindof shows what the engine is capable of for the future, but in game will have lesser quality than this.Do we know that they upped the quality and features for the FMV? Devs can choose to prerender stuff as from the game to cover up a loading delay. I haven't seen the clip in HD, and if there's zero aliasing then that would point to beyond-gameplay quality.

patsu

19-Sep-2008, 18:40

why cant insomniac just release a gameplay trailer of their latest build, releasing a cutscene albeit a very pretty one would just confuse more people and create more questions than answers.

Probably because they need to build the buzz all the way until release. May be because everyone is busy with
the project now. They worked on gameplay first. The visuals were still being integrated before and throughout the internal beta.

It's hard for me to gauge the visuals because I have only seen bits and pieces of the game (Haven't seen the water even). But I can tell you it has certainly improved "very noticeably" since I first saw it. And yes, it is a solid improvement over R1 technically. Color-choice and what not are subjective though, so I'll leave those out of the equation.

Jstevenson also mentioned that they have improved the audio and music. I didn't get to hear them during the private beta.

EDIT: Ok, Jstevenson has something to say about the MP graphics I saw: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12859973&postcount=769

And to be fair, MP isn't going to look as good as SP does. It can't really when you have to deal with the much larger levels, number of models, and number of effects going off. That said, it still looks good... but not as mind-blowing as SP looks.

tha_con

19-Sep-2008, 22:53

FirewalkR

20-Sep-2008, 00:21

I have a VERY strong doubt that the lighting was enhanced at all for cutscenes, or that the models / textures are any different from their real time counter parts. Throw in some extra AA and you're good.

Really, my mind is blown by some of those comments.

I've liked the in-game lighting a lot since they last showed the SP campaign at E3, but in this intro it's looking all kinds of awesome, and probably quite a bit beyond in-game. But who knows... :)

We should see SP gameplay with the final, or practically final, version of the engine next week in several media outlets, according to JStevenson at GAF.

el_rika

20-Sep-2008, 01:01

Please tell me I didn't just read a complain about these vids being "pre-rendered".

I hardly think something rendered using in game assets (models and textures) could be included as "pre-rendered" in the sense that we are used to. Honestly, the biggest different between the cutscenes and gameplay you'll see are things like Shadow clarity (the shadow maps are much higher res in those cut scenes) and effects like motion blur and DOF.

I have a VERY strong doubt that the lighting was enhanced at all for cutscenes, or that the models / textures are any different from their real time counter parts. Throw in some extra AA and you're good.

Really, my mind is blown by some of those comments.

It actually is a big deal from various reasons. First, like a fellow forumer said (-bobobologna- ):

So what if they use in-game assets? I'm talking about real-time rendering. They can have as many characters/effects/sounds/physics simulations going on if they don't have to worry about how long it takes to render a frame. But for actual gameplay, there obviously is a limitation as to how much you can do in a single frame. I'm just skeptical that the cutscene was rendered real-time, not that the art assets used aren't the in-game art assets.

Second, a pre-rendered cutscene (because as long as it is a video file it is pre-rendered in the full sense of the word) will eliminate any kind of interaction (like zooms or camera/depth of field control ) and will make extra costumes or weapons or characters or any kind of character customisations completely usseless as they will not appear in the pre-rendered cutscenes.

Third, HD video files take huge amount of space, space that could be used for other things, space that is literally wasted.

The "excuse" they keep bringing up that they pre-render them only for loading purposes is pure BS and it is just a poor excuse for their lack of time/talent, or even worse - lack of interest, to optimise the cutscenes to run in realtime.
I don't think any sane person would give up all the benefits of the realtime rendered cutscenes for a few extra seconds worth of loading time. It is unconcievable.

deepbrown

20-Sep-2008, 01:24

It actually is a big deal from various reasons. First, like a fellow forumer said (-bobobologna- ):

So what if they use in-game assets? I'm talking about real-time rendering. They can have as many characters/effects/sounds/physics simulations going on if they don't have to worry about how long it takes to render a frame. But for actual gameplay, there obviously is a limitation as to how much you can do in a single frame. I'm just skeptical that the cutscene was rendered real-time, not that the art assets used aren't the in-game art assets.

Second, a pre-rendered cutscene (because as long as it is a video file it is pre-rendered in the full sense of the word) will eliminate any kind of interaction (like zooms or camera/depth of field control ) and will make extra costumes or weapons or characters or any kind of character customisations completely usseless as they will not appear in the pre-rendered cutscenes.

Third, HD video files take huge amount of space, space that could be used for other things, space that is literally wasted.

The "excuse" they keep bringing up that they pre-render them only for loading purposes is pure BS and it is just a poor excuse for their lack of time/talent, or even worse - lack of interest, to optimise the cutscenes to run in realtime.
I don't think any sane person would give up all the benefits of the realtime rendered cutscenes for a few extra seconds worth of loading time. It is unconcievable.

That first guy is saying he wouldn't be suprised if the game looked liked that...but might not have as much going on. Uh...I wonder if he's seen gameplay of R2...there's more stuff going on than most games out there. Even R1 had more enemies on screen than competitors.

HD movies take up space? Uh...and that's a problem how for PS3 games? They have a blu-ray - the reason they are using HD movies is because they have the LUXURY to do so.

And it's not bullshit to cover up loading times. Games that have no visible loading because of HD movie cutscenes - Uncharted and Heavenly Sword. Other games are so far behind these with regards to loading (including MGS4 which has PAINFUL LOADING) that they should look towards similar solutions.

el_rika

20-Sep-2008, 01:33

That first guy is saying he wouldn't be suprised if the game looked liked that...but might not have as much going on. Uh...I wonder if he's seen gameplay of R2...there's more stuff going on than most games out there. Even R1 had more enemies on screen than competitors.

HD movies take up space? Uh...and that's a problem how for PS3 games? They have a blu-ray - the reason they are using HD movies is because they have the LUXURY to do so.

And it's not bullshit to cover up loading times. Games that have no visible loading because of HD movie cutscenes - Uncharted and Heavenly Sword. Other games are so far behind these with regards to loading (including MGS4 which has PAINFUL LOADING) that they should look towards similar solutions.

You must be joking right ? Please tell me you do...
First, you misread the guys's post completely and second you are praising prerendered videos and bashing realtime ones ? Hello PS1 era...
So what if the loading times are longer in MGS4 ? The pay offs are immense, they are bigger than big, you can completely customise every single cutscene, it is great, it is high production value, it is high replay value. Not to mention the fact that you will never have more than 2 or 3 hours of high quality HD movie on a Blu Ray disc (and this without any space left for the other game's assets) while MGS4 has over 9 hours of uncompressed quality cutscenes at basically zero space cost (excluding the audio).

Long story short, i want to have extra costumes, extra weapons, completely customisable characters and i want all these to appear in the cutscenes. I don't want to play the game as a fat Drake and in the cutscenes to be a default Drake. It is lame and it is stupid and it smells like ps1 era. I want to zoom in in the cutscenes and i want to know that the devs put the bone into it and squeezed the last bit out of the hardware optimising the cutscenes to run in realtime.

D3B

20-Sep-2008, 06:15

I don't care what they are. When my friends see it they will go WOW.

MazingerDUDE

20-Sep-2008, 07:13

http://www3.telus.net/public/dhwag/R2VSGEOW1.jpg

Is it just me? Or anyone else finds RE2 to be a bit.. underwhelming :sad:

Lucid_Dreamer

20-Sep-2008, 08:07

Is it just me? Or anyone else finds RE2 to be a bit.. underwhelming :sad:
It might just be you. :wink:

RenegadeRocks

20-Sep-2008, 08:25

So what?

Implementing effects when you dont have to care about performance isn't particularly hard.
Plenty of games that have "in-engine" prerendered cutscenes that uses techniques that are simply impossible to on current hardware in a game at a decent framerate.

It doesn't mean that the engine will utilize this tech in realtime in the future. (mostly because with new hardware we usually build new engine, and because we develop "smarter" rendering techniques all the time.

Again, it means nothing at all.

I didn't say anything about whether its easy or hard, I just said its there.Why do I care if it was easy for the dev or hard? Where does this come from? All I am saying that,eg., They have put DOF in the cutscene, but the DOF is not optimised enough to be used in-game right now, but maybe, maybe, in the future they'll optimise it enought to be used in-game.
Also, it shows what the devs like and would like to implement further down the line, even if the hardware changes. It also shows the line of thought and their priorities about what they beleieve will make the game look more cinematic. There is no competition going about what will bw hard to and what won't be. Its pure speculation about what is on the way to become achievable and whats on their mind.

Neb

20-Sep-2008, 13:35

http://www3.telus.net/public/dhwag/R2VSGEOW1.jpg

Is it just me? Or anyone else finds RE2 to be a bit.. underwhelming :sad:

Well it looks better than the first game but that one didnt stand out (that much in contrary to this one].. but had a decent amount of fighting characters.

Neb

20-Sep-2008, 13:41

The "excuse" they keep bringing up that they pre-render them only for loading purposes is pure BS and it is just a poor excuse for their lack of time/talent, or even worse - lack of interest, to optimise the cutscenes to run in realtime.

But factor in the HW, what if they just cant optimize it more to do that in real-time hence pre-rendered with the engine?

Its seen in other games to where effects and more is enhanced over the ingame play graphics. Would the ingame play have had that graphics it would probably be a slide show.

Slideshow cutscenes and increased loading time or pre-rendered cutscenes and shorter loading times?

Cheezdoodles

20-Sep-2008, 13:44

morlock

20-Sep-2008, 13:59

morlock

20-Sep-2008, 14:08

nvm

tha_con

20-Sep-2008, 15:29

Pre-rendered simply means its not being rendered in real time....

Yes, except traditionally, individuals use the term "pre-rendered' to describe something that is absolutely impossible to render with the hardware.

Your assumption that this couldn't be done on PS3 in real time is REDICULOUS.

It's done ONLY to mask the load times, just like it was done in Uncharted, Ratchet and Clank Future, etc. All of that is EASILY attainable when you script everything (as it is) and remove the necessity for heavy physics, AI, and you can literally control what is on screen at any given moment.

Edit: Spelling isn't my strong point, lol.

patsu

20-Sep-2008, 15:44

It actually is a big deal from various reasons. First, like a fellow forumer said (-bobobologna- ):

So what if they use in-game assets? I'm talking about real-time rendering. They can have as many characters/effects/sounds/physics simulations going on if they don't have to worry about how long it takes to render a frame. But for actual gameplay, there obviously is a limitation as to how much you can do in a single frame. I'm just skeptical that the cutscene was rendered real-time, not that the art assets used aren't the in-game art assets.

Second, a pre-rendered cutscene (because as long as it is a video file it is pre-rendered in the full sense of the word) will eliminate any kind of interaction (like zooms or camera/depth of field control ) and will make extra costumes or weapons or characters or any kind of character customisations completely usseless as they will not appear in the pre-rendered cutscenes.

Third, HD video files take huge amount of space, space that could be used for other things, space that is literally wasted.

The "excuse" they keep bringing up that they pre-render them only for loading purposes is pure BS and it is just a poor excuse for their lack of time/talent, or even worse - lack of interest, to optimise the cutscenes to run in realtime.
I don't think any sane person would give up all the benefits of the realtime rendered cutscenes for a few extra seconds worth of loading time. It is unconcievable.

Actually, no.

I think it depends on the situation. If doing interactive cutscenes takes up too much gameplay development time, I'd rather the developers focus on gameplay development. The custom cutscene benefit you mentioned is interesting but I don't play the game to play "dress" (There is a separate game for it).

If a dev has other interesting gameplay ideas that take time and resources to implement, it is well worth it to do pre-rendered cutscenes. Afterall, R1 has slideshow cutscenes and it's still my favorite PS3 game. I consider MGS4 cutscenes the best yet, even so, I like the gameplay even more.

In short, it has nothing to do with talent or lack of interest; it has something to do with scope, purpose and focus. To put things in perspective, Insomniac releases 1-2 games every year. All of them look great. R2 is the most impressive so far. No other developers I know are this productive.

patsu

20-Sep-2008, 15:58

As long as the pre-rendered cutscenes does'nt have as big of a difference as e.g gameplay vs CG in Final Fantasy games it's fine.

Besides, going by the pre-rendered scenes in Ratchet & Clank versus it's gameplay and the same in R1, it won't be a big difference.

However, I always prefer the realtime scenes where you can control the camera somewhat or that your unlocked skin and gadgets is included in the scenes the second playthrough.

Yeah, I think people are jumping the gun. We only saw one cutscene and some went berserk. :)

It's not like R2 is made entirely up of cutscenes. Even in R1, part of the story is illustrated using gameplay.

The R2 cutscene gives us a fresh look at Nathan Hale (He talks now !). It also gives us some background about one of the leafy levels. We can also catch a glimpse of improved technologies such as mo-capped animation and improved lighting. We are almost misled by the soldiers' inability to move while firing (:lol:).

RenegadeRocks

20-Sep-2008, 20:25

The pics in the scans are really good and some of the enemies make me wonder whether it is Resistance at all :wink: ! But innovation is appreciated, especially after having had too much fun with R1 , I am sure Ted Price will decide on the right things again!

BTW, when is the game going to look like this :wink: !
http://i37.tinypic.com/2ltkbig.jpg

DrJay24

20-Sep-2008, 20:33

BTW, when is the game going to look like this :wink: !

It looks like that, that's in game. There was some Iceland footage in an official montage a while back.

patsu

21-Sep-2008, 04:31

Roughly.

So far, I have not taken a detailed look at the visuals while in-game.

Sometimes, the enemies hid in the shadow during sunset (and then I just die). I hated it when that happened in a particular area rather frequently. Sometimes, we got mixed up with the enemies in the forest. I can't tell what's what because everyone was running around so quickly. Most of the time, the enemies and us put up shields that block our view partially.

It was clear that the game's still under development but it was also obvious that lighting has changed for the better. We have not seen the final visuals though.

deepbrown

21-Sep-2008, 12:53

inefficient

21-Sep-2008, 14:47

patsu

21-Sep-2008, 16:13

Uh...breaking NDA? I think there will be a significant difference between online graphics and singleplayer.

Ha ha, what I described have already been seen in public gameplay trailers.

The MP games implied lot's of head room in SP scale, interactivity and dynamism. So yes, I think SP levels will be stunning in comparison.

Nesh

21-Sep-2008, 16:57

http://www3.telus.net/public/dhwag/R2VSGEOW1.jpg

Is it just me? Or anyone else finds RE2 to be a bit.. underwhelming :sad:

Is it me or is the character on the left a subject of LOD?

The right one I think was from the UT3 character selection. A MOD I presume? Or is it from GoW2?

Shifty Geezer

21-Sep-2008, 17:43

Kittonwy

21-Sep-2008, 19:19

I think it's Gears 2. Wherever it's from though, I think the big difference is just the extremity of texturing - art style and not engine. Model detail doesn't seem much different at a casual glance, while the lighting in the R2 pic looks better. The only downside I notice seems to be texture resolution, a little bit fuzzier on the R2 monster. If that R2 critter had more pronounced normal mapping and messier textures, it could probably be swapped into that other game just fine!

It's just that the titan doesn't have a lot of sharp angles and the texturing doesn't have as much contrast to it, makes things look smoother and less hostile, which is a bit of a problem. Whereas the beserker looks look like something the player shouldn't go near, the titan looks like something that I would try to run towards and try melee in the ass. I think it's a good looking monster though, just not as menacing.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v500/EvilTaru/Indifferent2.gif

patsu

21-Sep-2008, 19:36

Whereas the beserker looks look like something the player shouldn't go near, the titan looks like something that I would try to run towards and try melee in the ass.

True enough ! That's exactly what I did on several occassions in the beta. Damn comrades didn't do their jobs. :(

D3B

21-Sep-2008, 21:53

Is it me or is the character on the left a subject of LOD?

The right one I think was from the UT3 character selection. A MOD I presume? Or is it from GoW2?

The R2 is a not so good magazine scan and the gears shot is a UT3 mod probably on PC.

Arwin

21-Sep-2008, 21:59

Whereas the beserker looks look like something the player shouldn't go near, the titan looks like something that I would try to run towards and try melee in the ass.

Well duh. The berserker here doesn't have a ranged weapon so you'd be stupid to go near it, whereas the titan is huge and has a big-ass heavy gun, so obviously you'll want to attack it from behind, at short range so you can stay behind it. ;)

On a more serious note, yes, the Berserker looks bad-ass. He reminds me of skeletor on steroids. Would like to see the context of the full screen on both though.

patsu

21-Sep-2008, 22:23

Well duh. The berserker here doesn't have a ranged weapon so you'd be stupid to go near it, whereas the titan is huge and has a big-ass heavy gun, so obviously you'll want to attack it from behind, at short range so you can stay behind it. ;)

Run Arwin Run !

That would be the last words you hear from me when you go toe-to-ass with a Titan. The odd's pretty steep. I had to do it because I ran out of ammo and no one came to my rescue. :no: It's usually safer to tackle it from a distance.

On a more serious note, yes, the Berserker looks bad-ass. He reminds me of skeletor on steroids. Would like to see the context of the full screen on both though.

I think the actual experience will depend on the behaviour and stats of the critters in-game. Beyond cutscenes and static shots, it's hard to see in-game character details sometimes. However if a Titan is awfully clever, I am bound to remember it (for repeated play !).

tha_con

22-Sep-2008, 14:48

The "excuse" they keep bringing up that they pre-render them only for loading purposes is pure BS and it is just a poor excuse for their lack of time/talent, or even worse - lack of interest, to optimise the cutscenes to run in realtime.
I don't think any sane person would give up all the benefits of the realtime rendered cutscenes for a few extra seconds worth of loading time. It is unconcievable.

wat.

You're saying that Naughty Dog and Insomniac are LAZY and lack TALENT?

wow.

Arwin

22-Sep-2008, 17:05

I missed that comment.

el_rika, it's not an excuse. Insomniac and Naughty Dog have some pretty advanced streaming engines going on, but when a completely new environment needs to be loaded and it's the first time you go there, some loading is necessary.

In Uncharted, they've done it in a quite interesting way, and you can test this by the various ways you can go into a level. For instance, if you boot up the game and start in a new chapter, then if you skip the intro to that chapter (which you can), you'll see a loading screen.

If you finish the previous chapter and enter that same chapter, that loading screen will sometimes be shorter, because it already streamed some parts of the level and keeps some bits of the game in memory (or in the HD cache it uses).

You can see the exact way in which this works in the document that Naughty Dog released on their own website during GDC, detailing almost the whole engine, including the BluRay-HDD-RAM streaming mechanism they used.

I wonder, by the way, if there are really benefits to realtime rendered non-interactive cutscenes other than saving some space on the disc, which often isn't that big an issue on the PS3 as it is on other consoles for obvious reasons. I think getting the framerate of those cutscenes with decent framerates, etc., is typically more work for the developer and more work for the artist. If you make them interactive however, that's a wholly different story of course.

RobertR1

22-Sep-2008, 17:14

http://www3.telus.net/public/dhwag/R2VSGEOW1.jpg

Is it just me? Or anyone else finds RE2 to be a bit.. underwhelming :sad:

The big diff is see is bitch tits vs formed pecs.

Neb

22-Sep-2008, 17:35

The R2 is a not so good magazine scan and the gears shot is a UT3 mod probably on PC.

If anything its default, though it looks less detailed than default UT3 characters. The mapping and artwork makes it stand out.

el_rika

23-Sep-2008, 01:28

nevermind

RenegadeRocks

23-Sep-2008, 07:45

Any idea when the new SP footage will show up ? :roll:

patsu

23-Sep-2008, 07:48

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12902892&postcount=1234

hi everybody,

I'm exhausted, but we showed co-op, SP and MP... some folks played co-op for close to two hours, others played SP for that time, and others played MP. We went for over four hours and still had to kick people off.

Feedback was universally and exceptionally positive.

I'll be on a plane tomorrow when everything breaks. Rest assured i'll be around to answer questions when I get in.

And yes, all the screenshots you'll see tomorrow are real...

ultragpu

23-Sep-2008, 08:25

i feel like it's time to judge R2's visual for real when tomorrow shines upon me.

the ignoramus

23-Sep-2008, 11:12

I assume the realtime lighting will finally be like it was in the (Iceland) bullshots that they released at the beginning of the year?
Either way, I look forward to seeing whatever R2 media presents itself. I was very outspoken about the game's rough looking state back at E3. We'll see if that's changed.

patsu

23-Sep-2008, 16:04

http://www.psu.com/Resistance-2-details-and-media-coming-later-today-News--a0004884-p0.php

Insomniac fans take note; PSU will be unleashing a host of all-new Resistance 2 media later on today, as the hotly anticipated sequel’s November release draws ever closer.

For starters, we’ll be releasing over 15 new screenshots for your viewing pleasure, accompanied by four new videos depicting everything from the single player campaign to the game’s extensive multiplayer component.

Topping off our Resistance 2 media outburst will be a huge preview of the game, covering every major aspect available from our recent hands-on with the near-finished build of the title last week.

Tickle your fancy? We thought it might. Stay tuned to PSU for our Resistance 2 media showcase later toda

RenegadeRocks

23-Sep-2008, 19:13

Damn ! its night here and I am dying to sleep ! Looks like I'll miss the initial reactions and will have to watch it tomorrow evening after job or something :roll: :(!

tha_con

23-Sep-2008, 19:51

They should hit in about 25 minutes or less.

Neb

23-Sep-2008, 20:13

They are out.

http://www.gametrailers.com/

tha_con

23-Sep-2008, 20:39

Man, it sucks being at work, I can't see any of them, lol.

Guess I'll have to wait until later! *sad face*

Malibu

23-Sep-2008, 20:57

IGN Hands-On (http://ps3.ign.com/articles/912/912569p1.html)

Speaking of multiplayer, the battlefield was extremely pitched, with the 60 player battles raging across the various maps that we played on. Even with watching about two or three rounds and playing a few myself, I was struck by the fact that it didn't seem as though I was watching the same location twice. I was informed that combined across the traditional multiplayer modes (like Deathmatch) and the squad-based Skirmish mode, there will be more than 70 maps for players to fight across, which could be one of the largest multiplayer experiences ever made.

tha_con

23-Sep-2008, 21:08

Just to be clear, it's not 70 UNIQUE maps, rather, multiple maps with dozens of different layout types, which come to a total of about 70 or more.

patsu

23-Sep-2008, 21:16

They are out.

http://www.gametrailers.com/

...

*Speechless* <3 <3

Very very nice environment, lighting and effects. That's California Redwoods right ? Come visit our national parks someday, Arwin, Shifty and deepbrown. It is exactly like that (Giant trees, log cabins, etc.), but not so swampy. ^_^

IGN Hands-On (http://ps3.ign.com/articles/912/912569p1.html)

Speaking of multiplayer, the battlefield was extremely pitched, with the 60 player battles raging across the various maps that we played on. Even with watching about two or three rounds and playing a few myself, I was struck by the fact that it didn't seem as though I was watching the same location twice. I was informed that combined across the traditional multiplayer modes (like Deathmatch) and the squad-based Skirmish mode, there will be more than 70 maps for players to fight across, which could be one of the largest multiplayer experiences ever made.

The first game already does not have repeating levels.

R2 has HUGE and beautiful environments. One of the maps in particular... I have never seen such a big and complex map in my life before. You can really get lost and can't get out.

Nightware

23-Sep-2008, 21:43

This is what I call looking good:

http://gamevideos.1up.com/video/id/21582

There is not only one of those giant things but two, look at the distance.

the ignoramus

23-Sep-2008, 21:45

Very nice looking. I'm mostly impressed with how uniformly clean the image quality is. The water shaders/physics are also hugely impressive. I wasnt taking R2 all that seriously post E3 (particularly in light of KZ2 or even Far Cry 2), but what I see here is impressive. R2 will stand tall amongst the games that come out this fall; cool set pieces, fast paced gameplay, nice (and more importantly CLEAN) looking environments, scale, big boss fights.....how the hell are Insomniac able to deliver four solid current gen games in 2 years when over half a dozen of Sony's first/second party studios cant even ship a feature complete retail game before 2009?

Nightware

23-Sep-2008, 21:53

More videos here:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12911399&postcount=1499

patsu

23-Sep-2008, 22:05

Tap In

23-Sep-2008, 22:35

yowza... looks really good... much better lighting and a more refined next gen feel than the first

Cornsnake

23-Sep-2008, 23:08

This game is going to be huge. I don't know where to start when I get it. The single player for the story and best graphics, or play the co-op with a friend, or the 60 player online mode with our clan. I'll have to play for hours just to see everything once. And I still need to find the time to play LBP.

patsu

23-Sep-2008, 23:41

Yes, the co-op has quite a bit of depth. It doesn't feel tagged on at all. The SP looks polished from the 4 gameplay trailers. I have not seen the latest competitive MP gameplay yet. It's the part I worry most because of existing R1 experiences.

the ignoramus

24-Sep-2008, 00:51

I'm going to try to get some direct feed screengrabs of this latest footage, because I'm seeing some damn good textures here, particularly in 1up's "bunker" footage.
That's something I wasnt expecting, especially not with a game that has this kind of scale.

edit: here are two examples.

http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/9172/snapshot20080923175319zo7.jpg

http://img213.imageshack.us/my.php?image=snapshot20080923175450xj7.jpg

D3B

24-Sep-2008, 01:34

:shock: Best overall graphics in 2008 for sure!

And all the things for multiplayer are way above anything else out:cool:

djskribbles

24-Sep-2008, 03:43

gamevideos network must be getting hammered... i can't download a single video.

patsu

24-Sep-2008, 04:35

And all the things for multiplayer are way above anything else out:cool:

You have not seen the massive level I saw yet. ;-)
Don't know how it looks now. I'm eager to have a second look just to see if I was imagining things. :-P

RenegadeRocks

24-Sep-2008, 06:51

The visuals have sure put a smile on my face :) ! i had never thought Insomniac would get their lighting right :wink: ! and the sound is top notch too !

But one major gripe: Any body else thinks the chimera are dying too quickly :evil: ! I mean, where;s the challenge? The regenerating health shit makes it too easy I guess, and the chimera were very tough in R1 , but they seem to be dying too quickly here :( !

I hope R2 does not fall prey to " open up the game to casual players" syndrome ! MGS4 fell for it and R&C:TOD has practically no challenge (to the point where I am) ! We can understand R&C, as it is a kids game primarily, but not Resistance ! !!!

patsu

24-Sep-2008, 06:54

I doubt it. Play on Hard and above if you are really good. Insomniac started with gameplay first, so I am pretty sure they have sorted out fundamental issues like this. I was told demo is usually done on easy mode anyway. Jstevenson also hinted that they have group fighting AI in R2.

RenegadeRocks

24-Sep-2008, 07:22

Oh! if its easy mode then its fine ! I am not really good or anything, just that R1 provided a lot of challenge and sometimes I would get stuck in an area, trying again and again. The challenge was kindof associated with Resistance.
If the demo is on easy, then its understandable !

TheBlackLodge

24-Sep-2008, 07:48

Nice upgrade from R1, still not bowled over by it though sadly. GFX are nice but bestof 2008 ? I think not. Granted thats just my opinion, each to their own etc.

Lucid_Dreamer

24-Sep-2008, 08:33

What would bowl you over, then?

Arwin

24-Sep-2008, 09:04

I think the graphics are awesome, but more so from a technical pov than an artistic point of view. The art isn't the game's strong point. Of course that doesn't mean it looks ugly! Some of the stuff in these videos looks absolutely great. In Resistance 1, I was very much impressed with how well the technical side supported gameplay, and that game only looked good in very rare instances. Resistance 2 looks very good in most instances, great in some. So it's a big improvement for sure and this looks like it's going to be an awesome game. It makes my 'must buy' list for this year, along with among others LBP, WipeOut HD, Burnout PSN, and Guitar Hero WT (unless they mess it up somehow, will await the final review).

Cheezdoodles

24-Sep-2008, 09:25

Arwin

24-Sep-2008, 09:55

The textures at any rate should be vastly better as last time they didn't have time to get texture streaming in, which they definitely have now.

TheBlackLodge

24-Sep-2008, 10:06

What would bowl you over, then?

Well Gears 2 did upon it's initial reveal. Resi 5 certainly impressed me. KZ2 looks nice from a filter point of view. I just feel that R2 is looking a little sub Halo 3 in many aspects (Note, I'm not trying to turn this into a versus thread, you merely asked my opinion). I'm not saying it doesn't look good. It certainly does. I just wanted more.

/Is greedy.

Lucid_Dreamer

24-Sep-2008, 11:14

Actually, I predicted your response before I posted my question. I must be psychic. :lol:

inefficient

24-Sep-2008, 11:32

TheBlackLodge

24-Sep-2008, 13:06

Actually, I predicted your response before I posted my question. I must be psychic. :lol:

Yep, pretty sure I've said the same thing a couple of times now. :wink:

Lucid_Dreamer

24-Sep-2008, 13:17

If you did, I didn't read it. :smile:

TheBlackLodge

24-Sep-2008, 13:38

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1181929&postcount=460 ;)

Only the once though, so you got me there ;)

tha_con

24-Sep-2008, 14:09

Well Gears 2 did upon it's initial reveal. Resi 5 certainly impressed me. KZ2 looks nice from a filter point of view. I just feel that R2 is looking a little sub Halo 3 in many aspects (Note, I'm not trying to turn this into a versus thread, you merely asked my opinion). I'm not saying it doesn't look good. It certainly does. I just wanted more.

/Is greedy.

You're doing it wrong.

/discussion.

Anyway, footage looks fantastic, scale is enormous, effects are top tier, water is great, and the amount of on screen action is staggering (note: Far bigger than Gears, Halo, KZ2, etc).

There's room for "this game is pretty" and there's room for "this game is mind blowing". I prefer mind blowing over pretty. Fighting 2 dozen enemies w/explosions and bullets flying everywhere (with dust and fog floating around, fire, smoke, etc) is much more engaging than fighting 4 enemies with dozens of character models running in the BG that I can have zero interaction with. Action set pieces > all.

Gradthrawn

24-Sep-2008, 14:52

These videos make me sad. he blood effect looks so liquid in this game compared to anything else I have seen. I know so much of this game is going to be censored for Japan. And if it's anything like R1, even if I buy the US version it will still be censored.
:(

Otherwise it looks amazing!

Perhaps the US game save trick will work with R2 as well? I'm sure most here would be happy to help you out with an empty save game.

RenegadeRocks

24-Sep-2008, 15:02

Is it only me worrying about the chimeras dyieng too easily in SP?!!!?!?! :???:
I hope the demo was on easy :roll: !

Neb

24-Sep-2008, 15:06

I just feel that R2 is looking a little sub Halo 3 in many aspects (Note, I'm not trying to turn this into a versus thread, you merely asked my opinion). I'm not saying it doesn't look good. It certainly does. I just wanted more.

/Is greedy.

Well it gots lots of pre-baked stuff like lighting, shadows and SSAO. But it gives it a nice look despite being "cheap" effects. you dont have this special detailed effcts/explosions or such but its the quantity and artwork/design that stands out when fighting lots of enemies IMO. Reminds me of how good those Star Wars games for GC looked in forest areas, pre-baked but very realistic looking.

IMO nice tradeoff for larger levels/areas.

tha_con

24-Sep-2008, 15:07

I promise you the build they were playing was no where near the same as what we will receive on November 4th. The health of the Chimera was toned WAY down from what it is normally (I know from beta experience).

The reason they tone it down is to ensure that the demo continues on without multiple stalls and deaths. It wouldn't be a very good demo if someone was dying every couple of minutes, would it ;)

Neb

24-Sep-2008, 15:08

There is no point in talking about texture resolution and how great they are if the pictures you show are 640x340...

Strange, even for such small pictures it looks kinda standard. Texture resolution is definitely not RE2 strength but perhaps quantity/artowrk or the design of the level and how textrues are applied to make little contrast.

Lucid_Dreamer

24-Sep-2008, 15:20

Strange, even for such small pictures it looks kinda standard. Texture resolution is definitely not RE2 strength but perhaps quantity/artowrk or the design of the level and how textrues are applied to make little contrast.

Did you try the videos?

_phil_

24-Sep-2008, 15:25

Well it gots lots of pre-baked stuff like lighting, shadows and SSAO

lighting and shadowing are dynamic, and it's impossible to bake SSAO.

Neb

24-Sep-2008, 15:26

Did you try the videos?

All of the HD videos at Gamersyde, infact I put the link in the previous page.

Neb

24-Sep-2008, 15:28

lighting and shadowing are dynamic, and it's impossible to bake SSAO.

Not all of course (baked, duh) and if not SSAO then some static SSAO or darkening? Like that in Oblivion that creates shades of dark without shadows or dynamic lightsources.

patsu

24-Sep-2008, 15:50

People need to try the games themselves for this new wave of PS3 titles. It's different when you play them yourself. Watching someone else play removes the emotion experiences.

I was awed when I first played a few R2 levels ("Where IS the edge of the level, damn it !"). The sceneries don't repeat even within a level. The amount of on-screen action is indeed staggering. The shadows are nice and affect gameplay too. It's really difficult to see someone against the Sun, or when they linger in shadows. The shadows don't flicker too., and yes there are dynamic shadow (of course). The lighting looks natural too. ^_^

The trailers showed 2-3 more new enemies but I am sure there are more out there (The water one(s)). Same for weapons. They did not show Splicer here, and I am sure there are yet more.

<3 the fog in Orick. Love the signature clean lines/edges (also in R1). Even though we talked about the steriity of the ground textures, when in-game, we just had no time to complain :)

They also have not shown the R2 community feature. It's supposed to feature some sort of website integration. I hope it's as slick as LittleBigPlanet in usability.

ultragpu

25-Sep-2008, 05:30

put it simply, the game wowed me in a way that i feel like im playing an epic alien invasion movie in realtime. the scale and giant bosses here totally transcend the game to a new level.

RenegadeRocks

25-Sep-2008, 07:09

I have been watching the Videos last night and I think Insomniac has outperformed itself in a big way. It might not seem coherent artistically, but technically they have nailed it.

_phil_

25-Sep-2008, 07:55

Not all of course (baked, duh) and if not SSAO then some static SSAO or darkening? Like that in Oblivion that creates shades of dark without shadows or dynamic lightsources.

SSAO means screen space AO. You (obviously) can't bake something that work screen space.
I don't see any AO in R2.It could use some imo ,sometimes.

RenegadeRocks

25-Sep-2008, 08:01

Of course, SSAO would look good. Right now it has baked Occln in the BGs( under the plants,etc), but not SSAO I guess.

However, progress within the co-op mode won't be a linear affair; the development team went out of their way to make sure that the playing paths were constantly randomized so stages didn't look the same from play to play. What's more, the story of the Co-op mode will branch in many different directions, allowing players to determine their own squad's tale against the Chimeran threat.

Looks like the geometry randomnisation has been dropped for path randomnisation in co-op!

patsu

25-Sep-2008, 08:10

I thought the "geometry randomization" comment simply refers to the mix-and-match of sub-levels ? If so, it's there in the beta. I guess you could call it path randomization too since the sub-levels have different paths.

EDIT: Actually, what I hope to see soon is Mike Acton (or his coworkers) release more slides on their R&D website.

RenegadeRocks

25-Sep-2008, 08:24

Geometry randomization was meant to randomnise objects in a level to give a fresh feel every time. The main objects would be stationary but objects like Cover and objectives would get moved around everytime you play.eg, a truck near a shed would be somewhere else when you play next time.

Path randomnisation should amount to changing the position of the objective, so, atleast half of the stuff is still there.

What exactly is mix n match of sub levels?

patsu

25-Sep-2008, 08:46

Arwin

25-Sep-2008, 08:57

Technically, Ratchet & Clank did require a 400MB install if I remember correctly. ;)

patsu

25-Sep-2008, 09:13

Now that you mentioned it, R&C did have an installation issue (It mis-calculated HDD space, so the users had to free up 500Mb for R&C:ToD to install).

RenegadeRocks

25-Sep-2008, 09:45

The level is composed on-the-fly using building blocks (of smaller maps).

These guys have an advanced Blu-ray + HDD streaming framework. I am interested to see if they require any pre-install (probably not, by their tradition).

Wow! Thats cool, but how do they manage to get it correct gameplay wise?
Are they pre-decided combinations or are they combined on the fly? If made on the fly, then how do they control the gameplay?

New artwork:
http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3/image/article/912/912564/resistance-2-20080923112805810_640w.jpg
http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3/image/article/912/912564/resistance-2-20080923112811466.jpg

The first one looks kinda out of R&C !

deepbrown

25-Sep-2008, 10:28

That Orick forest video looks amazing. The walkthrough on Gametrailers... Wowza. And I KNEW Water was their crazy tech...the ripple on that water is WOW.

patsu

25-Sep-2008, 10:42

Wow! Thats cool, but how do they manage to get it correct gameplay wise?
Are they pre-decided combinations or are they combined on the fly? If made on the fly, then how do they control the gameplay?

The beta was quite limited, I can't really tell how they will work in the final game. It's under NDA anyway. The stuff I revealed have been communicated via someone from Insomniac (in GAF I think).

ultragpu

25-Sep-2008, 12:53

ARR i hate GT's clips, why would they filter every trailers with 10 layers of grey, and desaturate the shit out of an otherwise viberant looking R2?

RenegadeRocks

25-Sep-2008, 13:25

ARR i hate GT's clips, why would they filter every trailers with 10 layers of grey, and desaturate the shit out of an otherwise viberant looking R2?

Ya! Even if you watch the same clip at gamevideos it looks all crisp and colourful, and GT is always washed out :evil: !
Is the Dev Walkthrough up on any other site?, coz the GT one is crappy for the same reason.

BTW, here's a new interview from GT, shows lots of new areas and Chamaleon gameplay :) !
40420

The jungle looks so damn beautiful :shock: !

tha_con

25-Sep-2008, 13:44

inefficient

25-Sep-2008, 15:14

I really like the way the Bullseye bullets look like during the gun fights in the cut scenes. But I don't know yet if I am going to like they that amazingly bright and blown out during actual game play. Because it's not like a super gun or anything it's one of your main staples all through the game.

And I wish Insomniac didn't render the cut scenes to video. At least make it optional for us to watch them in real time! If they really are possible in engine, let us see them in their full original glory!

el_rika

25-Sep-2008, 15:34

And I wish Insomniac didn't render the cut scenes to video. At least make it optional for us to watch them in real time! If they really are possible in engine, let us see them in their full original glory!

How can they not be done in realtime ? Have you played MGS4 ? The realtime cutscene are even better looking and the animations are much much better.

Let's go with the tale where Insomniac prerendered them for loading purposes :wink:

Arwin

25-Sep-2008, 15:45

I heard in I think the 1up FM podcast that when asked why the cutscenes in Mirror's Edge weren't in-game, the producers replied that that would have been too expensive. Not saying that it's impossible that they were lying, but just repeating what I heard ... ;)

inefficient

25-Sep-2008, 15:47

How can they not be done in realtime ? Have you played MGS4 ? The realtime cutscene are even better looking and the animations are much much better.

Let's go with the tale where Insomniac prerendered them for loading purposes :wink:

I' m not saying they cannot be done in real time. I am saying Insomniac WILL NOT. Insomniac already said they will not be real time but rendered to video to hide loading processes. It sounded like a done deal to me. Especially considering that's what they did for R1 and R&C.

patsu

25-Sep-2008, 15:51

patsu - The levels actually don' t have completely random geometry and what not, I played through co-op extensively, and it appears that the case is more of a random layouts and objective sequence than anything else. Still, even after about 30 hours invested, there were situations where I ran into layouts and objectives that I hadn't ran into before.

I am not saying they have completely random geometry (That's insane !). The starting point, objectives and paths are indeed jumbled around.

It's the "random layout" part I am referring to. It seems that they pieced different layouts to generate the map. It's a little hard to tell because the map is so large (and interconnected) that there are more than one (convoluted) ways to get from point A to point B.

Shifty Geezer

25-Sep-2008, 16:12

Sounds like the method employed in Champions of Norrath and a myriad of other similar games (Diablo II I think). You have a tile-set of components that are pieced together procedurally, which is the true nature of 'random geometry' - they aren't truly random! In the case of an R2 map, a few simple rules would define when you ahve a building, when you have a car, where a tree or fence might be placed, and that mixes the maps up.

Regards this game, I hve to say seeing the latest multiplayer footage, I've actually lost interest. It looks too manic and messy, with shields up constantly, and people dying all over the shop in free-for-all mish-mashes. It looks like Warhawk when everyone's trying to take/defend the same base, and the moment you spawn there you get killed, maybe taking one baddie down with you. In such cases I spawn elsewhere if possible.

KZ2 has looked more tactical with a more diverse set of classes and better roles to play.

patsu

25-Sep-2008, 16:21

It's not as bad as you think (for co-op) :)

This is because when you respawned, the enemies attention were still on your comrades. So you can usually get out from a tight spot. The trick is to sweep the area systemically (and don't trigger any events before you're ready). If a team messed up, it usually means they have left over enemies somewhere. Or they have trigger all the enemies and were mixed up with them :lol:

It also depends on your team size. I have completed 8P co-op with just 2 players total. In which case, our advances will be more deliberate and intense. We got pushed back a lot, but we inched forward and made sure one of us always stayed "behind" in case the frontman died in a Chimeran charge. I enjoyed these games the most.

If the team size is big, we usually win. I have only encountered one case where the entire 8P team was wiped out. It was because most were new. Everyone was scattered on a hill where the enemy spawn points were. They were everywhere.

You can also change role in the middle of a game (You'll need to die first though). There are also some nice perks along the way (for high level players to help low level guys out).

Haven't tried large scale competitive gameplay yet. I suspect after a few rounds, people will learn from their mistakes. The maps are also big enough to accommodate several skirmishes at once. I wouldn't be surprised if squads fight in an area for minutes without interference from other squads.

EDIT: Oops, forgot about the shields. There are ways to counter the shields. The cheapest one is to use the terrain to your advantage -- Flank them ! (Your comrades will distract them. It's all pretty impromptu). The technical way is to use the right weapons (e.g. lobe a grenade, arm special ammo and weapons).

djskribbles

25-Sep-2008, 16:25

also, multiplayer is fully customizable... you can make or search for smaller servers.

ultragpu

25-Sep-2008, 16:28

http://ps3.psu.com/10-minute-Resistance-2-video-blowout--a0004895-p0.php
10-minute Resistance 2 video blowout. really dig the first part of the SP clip with all those explosions and decapitations.

rounin

25-Sep-2008, 16:34

patsu, do you know if there is 2 player splitscreen co-op in Resistance 2? Also, is it possible to play with 2 players splitscreen co-op but have people join from online (ie 8 player co-op mode but with 2 local players)?

patsu

25-Sep-2008, 16:46

rounin

25-Sep-2008, 16:49

So there is a difference between SP co-op and online co-op? They're not the same story/path? Sorry I'm a little confused.

patsu

25-Sep-2008, 16:53

As far as I know, there is no SP campaign co-op.

There is 2-8P online co-op. And yes the story arc is different.

Shifty Geezer

25-Sep-2008, 17:33

also, multiplayer is fully customizable... you can make or search for smaller servers.I appreciate that, but...I dunno. I can't place my finger on it. Looking at R2's multiplayer combat shown so far (competitive) it gives me the same 'I'm not interested' vibe as, say, UT3. It's not resonating with me. The multiplayer coop is bound to be good fun, I'm sure, but I don't know if I'd make the purchase for that if the extended multiplayer isn't fabulous. I really don't know. Though TBH I doubt I'll play anything again after LBP, except perhaps Sacred 2 and any other coop fantasy whack-'em-ups :D

patsu

25-Sep-2008, 17:56

In general, I'd recommend the co-op over competitive because there are less negative feelings when everyone work together.

But I'd also recommend playing competitive early (if you want to try !) since everyone would start with a level playing field. The maps take some serious memorization and scouting. You would be able to pick off first timers easier. It's harder to get on when everyone has learned the maps.

tha_con

25-Sep-2008, 18:45

At this point, we know there is no SP co-op. The SP campaign is strictly for one player only.

As for online co-op, Jstevenson refused to deny "No local co-op" (i.e., your buddy and you participating in an online 8P co-op game on the same PS3). So it's still an open possibility for now. I don't know what the real story is.

I'm pretty sure JS confirmed that local co-op can be played split screen, he just didn't confirm/deny if you could then go online. But the co-op missions can be played locally in split screen.
]We're still doing final optimizations and trying to ensure things are running well:

But what I can confirm is NO split-screen campaign - it's a one-player campaign. And Offline split-screen co-op campaign is in the game.

DrJay24

25-Sep-2008, 20:03

I got my beta code from Gamestop at lunch, I'm not sure when the open beta starts though.

Cornsnake

25-Sep-2008, 20:17

Early october is all we know, no specific date has been announced yet.

patsu

25-Sep-2008, 20:51

I'm pretty sure JS confirmed that local co-op can be played split screen, he just didn't confirm/deny if you could then go online. But the co-op missions can be played locally in split screen.

Ah I see. I only got the part where he said no co-op for SP campaign. So it seems that we'll have offline co-op campaign (for how many players ?), and also up to 8P online co-op.

Cornsnake

25-Sep-2008, 21:05

Offline co-op is 2 players only.

tha_con

25-Sep-2008, 21:53

Also, JS tossed out a tasty little bit about Split Screen online being a possibility.

They may be working on that now, and in the next two weeks or so, may or may not get it done. It's a possibility for us to have split screen multiplayer online, so lets keep our hopes up!

patsu

26-Sep-2008, 18:53

D3B

27-Sep-2008, 01:01

Wish they had sound.

The water looks real good. And in the 2nd video he gets blown up in a tree.:cool:

RenegadeRocks

27-Sep-2008, 07:20

http://www.gamersyde.com/stream_8811_en.html

New video on Orick. Shows Nathan Hale walking and submerged in water towards the end. No sound though.

EDIT: Part II of the same walkthrough added: http://www.gamersyde.com/stream_8821_en.html

Looks like they didn't expect the people to go below water , coz the upper level just dissappears when underwater

el_rika

27-Sep-2008, 07:29

Looks like they didn't expect the people to go below water , coz the upper level just dissappears when underwater

...and the water looks more like jelly rather than water...hope they fix that too.

RenegadeRocks

27-Sep-2008, 08:24

Need 2 Know

27-Sep-2008, 11:34

Hmmm...the bullseye's bullets go in a straight line now, earlier they used to get spread a lot. This will lessen the difference between the bullseye and the carbine. Carbine's bullets are still faster though.

From the RFOM 2 Beta I was playing not all the Bullseye rounds went in a straight line there was a few that went all over the place. i think the main diff from the bullseye in rfom 1 to 2 is that its a new model but it still does the exact same thing. Also rr, in the rfom 2 beta the bullseye was quicker than the carbine, i got a lot more kills with the bullseye compared to the carbine