Resistance 2

[RenegadeRocks]

James Stevenson replied to one of the comments in Playstation blog, and He says that"The Jaw Dropping tech" they were talking about is not in the teaser yet. But they just incorporated it in one of the levels and it looked Wicked !:razz:
I hope it pertains to lighting as lighting is one of the weakest points in their engine.....
I can't wait to see it !!!! :cool:

Also, he says they are putting together some screenshots from the competitive multiplayer to release them on net ! WooooHoooo! :runaway:

(Hee! hee ! got a little carried away!:wink4:)

[deepbrown]

James Stevenson replied to one of the comments in Playstation blog, and He says that"The Jaw Dropping tech" they were talking about is not in the teaser yet. But they just incorporated it in one of the levels and it looked Wicked !:razz:
I hope it pertains to lighting as lighting is one of the weakest points in their engine.....
I can't wait to see it !!!! :cool:

Also, he says they are putting together some screenshots from the competitive multiplayer to release them on net ! WooooHoooo! :runaway:

(Hee! hee ! got a little carried away!:wink4:)
Hm don't think it's lighting - it's something they've put in one level. I do wonder what it is though. How about really cool water - 3d . I dunno. Sounds cool though

[Shifty Geezer]

They could do with an AO lighting solution of sorts, even if just a fake. R:FoM does look weak in that respect.

[betan]

James Stevenson replied to one of the comments in Playstation blog, and He says

also 19 hours won't be real-time, and framerate is not yet finalized.

[ShadowRunner]

James Stevenson replied to one of the comments in Playstation blog, and He says that"The Jaw Dropping tech" they were talking about is not in the teaser yet. But they just incorporated it in one of the levels and it looked Wicked !:razz:
I hope it pertains to lighting as lighting is one of the weakest points in their engine.....
I can't wait to see it !!!! :cool:

Also, he says they are putting together some screenshots from the competitive multiplayer to release them on net ! WooooHoooo! :runaway:

(Hee! hee ! got a little carried away!:wink4:)

Soft body physics on a huge scale maybe? similar to the cube out of the new unreal tech demo, but whole chimeran buildings/tunnels made from the stuff! :shock:
I have no idea if that would even be possible though :smile:

[Npl]

James Stevenson replied to one of the comments in Playstation blog, and He says that"The Jaw Dropping tech" they were talking about is not in the teaser yet...I hope they dint mean you now have a mini game were you have to collect parts of gibbed Chimera for a dentist :wink:

[Rangers]

That shot reminds me of Lair: A bridge, burning city, ocean, flag(s), and many flying units. Although Lair looks kinda rough, it is also a launch game with more freedom in movement (as opposed to only walking/running), physics-based water, tons of troops on the ground and ships. Hence, I also think the teaser should be in-engine.

Frankly, the only thing I care about in Resistance is the gameplay and AI. The graphics is already clean and nice in R1... although it can use more colors.

The only nitpick I have is that the ships should move in crowd/swarm (e.g., smaller ships providing an air umbrella for their mothership, or flying in squadron formation to some destination). The random linear flight pattern looks ok in R&C's cityscape, but may look aimless in R2.

Insomniac has already all but said it's not in-game already

insomniac dev (my bolding)

James Stevenson replied on April 14, 2008 at 9:27 pm
James Stevenson's Avatar

There will be lots of new stuff and the first footage of the game in the show, so it’s a big one!

Along with conspicuously avoiding all questions on in-game status here:

http://blog.us.playstation.com/2008/04/14/resistance-2-it-begins/comment-page-1/#comments

Cant wait for some real media on this though..Sounds like June 13 is a blowout..a whole episode of GTTV dedicated to R2 and footage. Too bad it wasn't May 13 or something a bit earlier though :grin:

[Shifty Geezer]

Insomniac has already all but said it's not in-game already
Along with conspicuously avoiding all questions on in-game status here:...Not conclusive. 'In game' can mean 'with game engine' or 'appearing in the game' and the lack of distinction by people asking and answering questions can confuse the matter. The trailer could well be a setup using the game engine and assets but not being a scene that appears in the game we buy, resulting in a movie that is not in-game, and is in-game, depending on which definition a person cares to use.

As pointed out, if the trailer was CG, it was poor CG! It's more likely IMO that the trailer was in engine, perhaps a test-case rendering, maybe with some touch-ups for features not yet implemented, for which Insomniac won't claim it's in-game, but likewise it's not really a fabrication either, but indicative of the final product. Not that that means much IMO. The game's a shooter, not a boating sim, so I don't see how that trailer is gonna sell me the product ;)

I expect what we see on June 13th is in-game footage of a person playing the title.

[ultragpu]

Not conclusive. 'In game' can mean 'with game engine' or 'appearing in the game' and the lack of distinction by people asking and answering questions can confuse the matter. The trailer could well be a setup using the game engine and assets but not being a scene that appears in the game we buy, resulting in a movie that is not in-game, and is in-game, depending on which definition a person cares to use.

As pointed out, if the trailer was CG, it was poor CG! It's more likely IMO that the trailer was in engine, perhaps a test-case rendering, maybe with some touch-ups for features not yet implemented, for which Insomniac won't claim it's in-game, but likewise it's not really a fabrication either, but indicative of the final product. Not that that means much IMO. The game's a shooter, not a boating sim, so I don't see how that trailer is gonna sell me the product ;)

I expect what we see on June 13th is in-game footage of a person playing the title.

there's one part i can pretty much gaurantee you that it's not ingame or in-engine, which is where Hale kicked the hatch open. kist look at the perfect ray traced lighting and ultra smooth shadows, the uber high res textures on the metal, it resembles some of the Lair's CGI. but the rest of the teaser could be entirely in engine with touched up AA. there're definetly some flickering artifacts on the bridge model and some shadows poping on the mothership on top left. i really hope they'll deliver that kind of rendering quality in the real game though if not more.

[betan]

there's one part i can pretty much gaurantee you that it's not ingame or in-engine, which is where Hale kicked the hatch open. kist look at the perfect ray traced lighting and ultra smooth shadows,

I find it unlikely that it's not in-engine, lighting can be prebaked (but doesn't necessarily look ray traced to me anyway). Shadow resolution and filtering can be upped in-engine.

[Nesh]

there's one part i can pretty much gaurantee you that it's not ingame or in-engine, which is where Hale kicked the hatch open. kist look at the perfect ray traced lighting and ultra smooth shadows, the uber high res textures on the metal, it resembles some of the Lair's CGI. but the rest of the teaser could be entirely in engine with touched up AA. there're definetly some flickering artifacts on the bridge model and some shadows poping on the mothership on top left. i really hope they'll deliver that kind of rendering quality in the real game though if not more.

It didnt look THAT great to me to be implied it wasnt in engine although it looked awesome.

[Inquisitive_Idiot]

Well if it was in-engine or in-game then why not say? Furthermore, why are they having a separate date specifically for "in-game" footage. Avoiding the question seems to suggest something is up with the teaser trailer, and that it might not exactly be indicative of the final product. I might be mistaken, but I am pretty sure the screenshots that have already been released did not show anywhere near that level of detail or scale.

[patsu]

I think they want/need to manage everyone's expectation and prevent miscommunication. The words "in-game" or "in-engine" are not well defined. It is best to demonstrate with real footage.

James Stevenson mentioned informally that they may release more tidbits before June 13, so this is just the start of their buzz building.

If you have played R&C, you'll find the teaser very familiar. For R2, I think the story, enemies, weapons, game play modes and alien technologies are much more interesting than the visual. There is little need for them to hype the in-engine graphics (however good it is) because R1 succeeded without much hype in this area.

[betan]

Well if it was in-engine or in-game then why not say? Furthermore, why are they having a separate date specifically for "in-game" footage. Avoiding the question seems to suggest something is up with the teaser trailer, and that it might not exactly be indicative of the final product. I might be mistaken, but I am pretty sure the screenshots that have already been released did not show anywhere near that level of detail or scale.

You'd be mistaken if you think that scale won't be visible in the game.
They did it for R&C and it doesn't necessarily say much about technical proficiency either, since they may be utilizing clever sprite tricks for those unreachable fleet of space ships that have relatively slow perspective shift.

As for why not reveal if it's realtime? I certainly wouldn't, since once revealed the fanboy discussion turns into whether it's good or not, as opposed to the current "CGI or not", which is a praise in any case. ;)

[DJ12]

Well if it was in-engine or in-game then why not say? Furthermore, why are they having a separate date specifically for "in-game" footage. Avoiding the question seems to suggest something is up with the teaser trailer, and that it might not exactly be indicative of the final product. I might be mistaken, but I am pretty sure the screenshots that have already been released did not show anywhere near that level of detail or scale.
I think some people really do misunderstand the term teaser.

[RenegadeRocks]

I think some people really do misunderstand the term teaser.

A teaser is supposed to do just what it has done here...GOT PEOPLE TALKING !:grin:

For me it is too unpolished to be CG. C'mon guys, I am a lighting Artist , and the lighting is pathetic in it to be CG.Everybody can afford GI for a small teaser. It in In-game, but Hale's polygon count seems beyond game tech for now.But he maybe in a seperate layer, you see.First take a video of the whole battlescene, and then take a video of just Hale with as many polys as possible.......put it over the battlescene and present it to the world ! That way, everything stays ingame, along with lots of detail on the character!:cool:

[mister slim]

Well if it was in-engine or in-game then why not say? Furthermore, why are they having a separate date specifically for "in-game" footage. Avoiding the question seems to suggest something is up with the teaser trailer, and that it might not exactly be indicative of the final product. I might be mistaken, but I am pretty sure the screenshots that have already been released did not show anywhere near that level of detail or scale.

That date is for gameplay footage.

[FirewalkR]

Insomniac will much probably show multiplayer screenshots (not sure about footage) at the Sony Gamers Day event (press only) in London around May 6th.

As someone said above James Stevenson stated over at neogaf he was taking screenshots for the event. Also, at the end of the latest Full Moon Show podcast James and the gang teased about a "secret plane trip" James was about to take in early May. Then, a few days ago rumours hit the net about a supposed May 6th Sony event (at first in sites of "doubtful reliability") but again over at gaf James and some press members (from Gamersyde, who were first invited to the event this year) were talking openly about how they should meet up.

From what I gathered, since I remembered the event but not the details, last year's event was a 3 day affair, monday to wednesday, with press and media releases on thursday. I've only read "May 6th" about this year's event, but it should be similar.

So, it's pretty much confirmed we will see new stuff, at least from the multiplayer.

[tha_con]

Insomniac has already all but said it's not in-game already

insomniac dev (my bolding)



Along with conspicuously avoiding all questions on in-game status here:

http://blog.us.playstation.com/2008/04/14/resistance-2-it-begins/comment-page-1/#comments

Cant wait for some real media on this though..Sounds like June 13 is a blowout..a whole episode of GTTV dedicated to R2 and footage. Too bad it wasn't May 13 or something a bit earlier though :grin:


Still, if it's anything like R1, then pretty much everything we saw as made from in-game assets, rendered at a higher resolution with some post processing effects. R1 cutscenes also had the same in-engine models and textures, just rendered with tons of additional AA and motion blur, etc.

I think it's fair to say what we've seen here can at least give us an idea of what the models / textures will look like, which is to say, greatly superior to R1.

[Lucid_Dreamer]

For the people that have a PS3, the Resistance 2 trailer looks MUCH better than the HD download from Gametrailers.com! The Gametrailers version is 25MB VC-1. The PS Store version is 98MB AVC. I could tell the difference between the two right away.

Damn. I already thought the trailer looked amazing, but...woah.:shock:

[Gradthrawn]

For the people that have a PS3, the Resistance 2 trailer looks MUCH better than the HD download from Gametrailers.com! The Gametrailers version is 25MB VC-1. The PS Store version is 98MB AVC. I could tell the difference between the two right away.

Damn. I already thought the trailer looked amazing, but...woah.:shock:

EU version is 62MB and AVC. US version is as you said it is. Strange. Althought its not the first time I've seen 2 different encodes of the same video on the different regions.

[Nesh]

For the people that have a PS3, the Resistance 2 trailer looks MUCH better than the HD download from Gametrailers.com! The Gametrailers version is 25MB VC-1. The PS Store version is 98MB AVC. I could tell the difference between the two right away.

Damn. I already thought the trailer looked amazing, but...woah.:shock:

God damn you are right! if the game is anything like it then I ll be :shock:

[patsu]

By Golly ! The motherships look like some Las Vegas nightclubs in this version. I really would like to have a trip there.

[JPT]

And the version I got from the EU/Norwegian store had a Norwegian voice over for Hale *shudder*

[almighty]

I think the jaw-dropping tech is like a super geo-mod ala red faction in R2 :)

[mister slim]

By Golly ! The motherships look like some Las Vegas nightclubs in this version. I really would like to have a trip there.

I bet you'll get the opportunity. Do a little sightseeing, maybe some gambling, and then take down the Chimera Danny-Ocean-style.

[Rainbow Man]

Do a little sightseeing, maybe some gambling, and then take down the Chimera Danny-Ocean-style.
Sure you're not talking about Duke Nukem here? ;)
Peace.

[patsu]

Heh heh... been waiting for this to show up. Sequel to the game I play the most (Just ask the people on my friends list).

R2 Hands-on from Gamers Day: http://au.ps3.ign.com/articles/871/871976p1.html

That said, what was shown holds a lot of potential – specifically, a full 60 players (well, 56 when I was playing) on one map playing over PSN; one group in London, and the other in Los Angeles. There was no lag, given it was playing over a dedicated server, but it was impressive more in how the game demonstrated how it intends to handle this number of players at once without dissolving into a chaotic fray.

This is done through creating smaller, objective-based battles within the larger context of the battle. Groups of up to eight are given micro-objectives (kill target X, get to point A and so on). Meeting these nets experience points

Overall, even in its unfinished state, the engine was clearly a large step forward from the first game; textures were noticeably sharper, colours brighter and enemy models also looked slightly improved.


In practice, there were plenty of opportunities for testing out the selected weapons – the shotgun and machine gun from the first game, plus the new minigun – a chaingun with a slight wind-up and wind-down. It's secondary function acts as a standalone turret pod with a built-in V-shaped shield on the front. This is activated by holding down R2 for a few moments.

The other, more mysterious weapon had no official name at this stage, but was essentially a powerful distance rifle with an as-yet unannounced secondary attack that was turned off for the preview session. As we all know, Insomniac love their weapons, and Ted Price believed firmly that this was his favourite weapon in the game. We'll have to take his word for it on that one.


All of this is tied to a more social and involved Resistance website that plans to go far beyond the current multiplayer social site, myresistance.net. Price believes the key to great multiplayer rests on playing with people you enjoy socialising with, so it's natural that Insomniac is looking at ways of matchmaking based on personal interests and hobbies, in addition age, location and sex.

YES !

EDIT: R2 will feature FaceBook like community building tools on their website. This is very close to what I think social gaming will be like. Can't wait to see how it pans out.

[deepbrown]

Heh heh... been waiting for this to show up. Sequel to the game I play the most (Just ask the people on my friends list).

R2 Hands-on from Gamers Day: http://au.ps3.ign.com/articles/871/871976p1.html









YES !

EDIT: R2 will feature FaceBook like community building tools on their website. This is very close to what I think social gaming will be like. Can't wait to see how it pans out.

You play R1 too much!!! :twisted:

[Cornsnake]

And again Insomnaic is delivering on what Sony should be doing. These small squads with dynamic objectives sounds excellent. Its much easier to change tactics in a smaller squad. And having dynamic objectives will hopefully stop people from camping and whoring certain weapons.

[patsu]

You play R1 too much!!! :twisted:

Don't pick on me. Mr. Bender plays Eye of Judgement too much too.

And again Insomnaic is delivering on what Sony should be doing. These small squads with dynamic objectives sounds excellent. Its much easier to change tactics in a smaller squad. And having dynamic objectives will hopefully stop people from camping and whoring certain weapons.

Oh so true. I hope they get to license their components to Sony to extend the Home experience.

[Scott_Arm]

Sounds like they have some cool ideas for online. I was never hot on the look of resistance, but 8 player co-op, community features and other things sound interesting.

[RenegadeRocks]

It is the gameplay that shines in Resistance! :)

[Cornsnake]

Oh so true. I hope they get to license their components to Sony to extend the Home experience.

Its very ironic that Insomnaic has what an online community needs while Sony is focusing on their Second life clone. Even first party's haven't noticed what Insomnaic has been doing. Warhawk was released they where bragging about how they based their community support of PC games because they have done before. The end result was something very different from Resistance and was missing a lot of features Resistance players where used to. And it wasn't as easy to use. Why are they all making their own version when their supposed to be sharing things within SCEWWS?

[Shifty Geezer]

Its very ironic that Insomnaic has what an online community needs while Sony is focusing on their Second life clone.You misunderstand Home ;)

[patsu]

I believe Warhawk network has ad-hoc join and is PS3-hosted. Resistance is based solely on player matching, and is hosted on dedicated "big-iron" servers. They have different needs (e.g., Warhawk can do LAN games). One can argue that Sony should do both for the developers, but at the same time since Sony does not force everyone to use their (likely limited) version, the PSN remains open and flexible (e.g., MMO games).

Home is another animal altogether. However it will need to work with all these online gaming models at the same time. Would be cool to see how Home works with the SOE games for example.

[Cornsnake]

Warhawk has dedicated server made from PS3's and allows game hosting.

Its probably good for developers that they can do their own thing. But now Sony has to adapt Home to all those different types of online games. Wouldn't a few ground rules make Home a lot easier to make? Perhaps they could have even released it on time.:shock: And when we finally do get Home, I wouldn't be surprised to see new games released that don't work with Home on the first day with all the problems online games have had. And how does MGO work with Home? Its not even using the same nickname's.

I think I'm getting to far off-topic.:sad:

[patsu]

Warhawk has dedicated server made from PS3's and allows game hosting.

Yes. I was refering to the user-hosted games.


Its probably good for developers that they can do their own thing.


Yes, at this early stage, I think it's beneficial if more people can innovate and think about online gaming for consoles.


But now Sony has to adapt Home to all those different types of online games. Wouldn't a few ground rules make Home a lot easier to make?

Yes, *if not already done so*, I believe the ground rules are being formulated and set as they integrate with Uncharted, Warhawk and other online games.

Perhaps they could have even released it on time.:shock: And when we finally do get Home, I wouldn't be surprised to see new games released that don't work with Home on the first day with all the problems online games have had. And how does MGO work with Home? Its not even using the same nickname's.


MGO has a similar structure. You get matched to a temporary party. The party will go through a series of games (in assorted game modes). While in the party, people can decide whether to get out or accelerate to the next round.

It was pretty fun and things just went BAM ! BAM ! BAM ! (Someone else encountered some lags during beta, so YMMV). I was busy that day and wanted to get out early. However the party was quick and friendly enough that I felt bad bailing. I ended up staying more than I should.

In any case, it should not be a problem integrating Home into MGO. Even if you use a Konami gamer id to sign into MGO, the system still have your PS3 id and PSN name. It should know how to automap the names to maintain a seamless experience. This is part of the reason PSN is called an "open network".

[The mods will probably move this subthread to the Home discussion]

[Kittonwy]

Warhawk has dedicated server made from PS3's and allows game hosting.

Its probably good for developers that they can do their own thing. But now Sony has to adapt Home to all those different types of online games. Wouldn't a few ground rules make Home a lot easier to make? Perhaps they could have even released it on time.:shock: And when we finally do get Home, I wouldn't be surprised to see new games released that don't work with Home on the first day with all the problems online games have had. And how does MGO work with Home? Its not even using the same nickname's.

I think I'm getting to far off-topic.:sad:

Resistance is more about one party going through RANKED games instead of people starting their own rooms and just mess around, I play with the gaf clan and playing on the same team beating other clans is what makes it fun, not messing around, unlike Warhawk.

[patsu]

Resistance is more about one party going through RANKED games instead of people starting their own rooms and just mess around, I play with the gaf clan and playing on the same team beating other clans is what makes it fun, not messing around, unlike Warhawk.

Yes, and for the longest time, seeing and learning how other clans strategize and execute their plans were fascinating too. People never fail to amaze me with their creative thinking. RFOM is very accessible (after learning the controls). Then the game gets out of the way and let you maximize your kills free-style.

[Cornsnake]

The best way to learn new strategies is by spectating a clanwar. You can walk around freely on the map or track players. You can see each players individual score and location on the map. It makes it very easy to see where a strategie is going right and when its going wrong.

The new podcast is up tonight. They should be allowed to talk about the game other then how much fun it is.

[patsu]

That's true, but if you're not in the game, you may not feel the psychological impact of the strategies. I believe spectating is only available in unranked games, so you may miss out the arguably better teams who play ranked games only.

[Cornsnake]

We have a small Resistance tournament within our own clan, so I can watch some pretty good players play. Watching unranked games is boring. Most of them are 1 shot kill games so skill is not required. Playing clanwars is really the best way to enjoy Resistance IMO. You can ban all the unbalanced weapons and the chimera. Playing 10 vs 10 wars against great clans you really have to work on your strategies and teamwork. On PS3 Resistance is the only game that offers everything you need to play games this way. And Resistance 2 looks all set to improve on that.

[patsu]

Yes, it's more balanced when clan play against clan because everyone kinda knows how to work within the team.

3 more R2 screenshots: http://blog.us.playstation.com/2008/05/16/resistance-2-at-e3-judges-day/

Same art-style as the first. The interesting thing is the Cloven soldier. He seems to have four eyes (Look at the visor in the third picture). I believe they are supposed to be infected human in the game.

EDIT: Whoops ! I think that's the Black Ops, not the Cloven.

[RenegadeRocks]

New species of Chimera ! I like the new look :) of the images.

[RenegadeRocks]

The interesting thing is the Cloven soldier. He seems to have four eyes (Look at the visor in the third picture). I believe they are supposed to be infected human in the game.
They had four eyes in the first one too. Though they never revealed anything about them in R:FOM .

[Cornsnake]

Chimera's without a cooling system, i'm guessing these are infected humans that where never to taken a processing facility. This could be what Hale is turning into.

This black ops soldier looks different from the one's you find in Resistance. The previous uniforms where all black.

[Kittonwy]

Does the game have HDR Lighting/dynamic shadowing/self-shadowing? I kept looking at the 1UP interview and I can't be positively sure. I loved the first game but I hated the LDR+bloom/no self-shadowing on characters/environments not casting shadows.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v500/EvilTaru/angry.gif

[ninzel]

Seriously is there a better console developer out there than Insomniac right now?
Not only do they consistently deliver high quality games,but they do it with such frequency to put other devs to shame.
This game is a day one purchase for me.
I hope the co-op scales well so I can play it by myself if I have to. I'm not into online multiplayer,but from what I did try of the first,it was top notch with no lag.
I think Insomniac is one of those devs that you an trust to deliver on their promises.

[Kittonwy]

Seriously is there a better console developer out there right than Insomniac right now?
Not only do they consistently deliver high quality games,but they do it with such frequency to put other devs to shame.
This game is a day one purchase for me.
I hope the co-op scales well so I can play it by myself if I have to. I'm not into online multiplayer,but from what I did try of the first,it was top notch with no lag.
I think Insomniac is one of those devs that you an trust to deliver on their promises.

Visually I'm still not convinced they've stolen the crown from Naughty Dog yet. Uncharted is still the gold standard when it comes to visuals on the PS3, it's up to Insomniac to exceed that standard.

[patsu]

I just don't think Insomniac is interested to be the number one visual king on PS3. To be frank, I don't want them to focus on that. There are other areas where Insomniac can contribute (more) and push the envelope. As long as the final result is pleasing to the eyes and the gameplay remains top notch, I will remain a satisfied customer.

[Inquisitive_Idiot]

I just don't think Insomniac is interested to be the number one visual king on PS3. To be frank, I don't want them to focus on that. There are other areas where Insomniac can contribute (more) and push the envelope. As long as the final result is pleasing to the eyes and the gameplay remains top notch, I will remain a satisfied customer.

To expand upon that, I was under the impression that Resistance 2 was going to have 60 player online, and 8 player co-op. Making all of that run with Killzone / Gears 2 level visuals would probably be impossible on the Playstation 3. It does not really matter anyway, I think Insomniac are a lot like Bungie in that gameplay, and community features are more important than outright graphical showcasing.

[ninzel]

Visually I'm still not convinced they've stolen the crown from Naughty Dog yet. Uncharted is still the gold standard when it comes to visuals on the PS3, it's up to Insomniac to exceed that standard.

Well....I think the types of games and their contrasting designs would greatly influence what is technically possible.
Resistance had bigger fuller and busier levels viewed from a first person perspective,which has to influence how "good looking" a game is perceived to be compared to Uncharted level and overall game design.
From what I've seen I would rate them equally capable ,just using their skill differently.

[Kittonwy]

I just don't think Insomniac is interested to be the number one visual king on PS3. To be frank, I don't want them to focus on that. There are other areas where Insomniac can contribute (more) and push the envelope. As long as the final result is pleasing to the eyes and the gameplay remains top notch, I will remain a satisfied customer.

I for one hope Insomniac is interested in being the visual AND gameplay king on the PS3, and sell more copies of R2 than the number RFOM did by expanding the player base instead of just satisfying their core fans.

[Kittonwy]

To expand upon that, I was under the impression that Resistance 2 was going to have 60 player online, and 8 player co-op. Making all of that run with Killzone / Gears 2 level visuals would probably be impossible on the Playstation 3. It does not really matter anyway, I think Insomniac are a lot like Bungie in that gameplay, and community features are more important than outright graphical showcasing.

But HALO 3 did have very good lighting (at least in the outdoor levels), and graphics (aside from the NPC character models), something that RFOM lacked which prevented it from being as big a hit as it could have been. Average consumers don't care why the game doesn't look as good as a game set in smaller environments. If they want R2 to sell better than RFOM it needs be a graphical showcase in addition to breaking new grounds in terms of MP gameplay.

[ultragpu]

Does the game have HDR Lighting/dynamic shadowing/self-shadowing? I kept looking at the 1UP interview and I can't be positively sure. I loved the first game but I hated the LDR+bloom/no self-shadowing on characters/environments not casting shadows.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v500/EvilTaru/angry.gif
have you even seen all the previous screenshots? the soft/self shadows and volumetric lighting are rendered beautifully in the game, on both characters environments. the redwood level definetly has the most convincing lighting in the game so far and thats only MP.
http://i27.tinypic.com/30jnytk.jpg
http://i29.tinypic.com/35d0w93.jpg
http://i26.tinypic.com/vo4l4y.jpg
now this level of detail is definetly worth of visual crown contender imo.
now i really dont like the design of that black ops, it's downright horrible and generic in design style. really hope they'll rework it out. whereas the new chinmera design is pretty slick, i like.

[Cornsnake]

Resistance may not be the best looking game today, but when it was released there was no beter looking game on PS3. I wouldn't worry about how Resistance 2 is going to look. Insomniac has always delivered good looking games compared to those on the system within the same time frame. And more importantly have always had a stable framerate and a lot of polish.

[BoardBonobo]

That car in the second picture looks exactly like the one in the nVidia tech demo. Either time machine or last chance gas ultra...

[patsu]

Gamevideos has an R2 interview showing in-game footage: http://www.gamevideos.com/video/id/18918

[ultragpu]

now 720p shots of my previous post
http://www.gamersyde.com/news_6513_en.html

[D3B]

Wow, new shots look great almost as good as the Gears 2 single player shots:shock:

[Gitaroo]

if you listen to the new Insonmaic pod cast, they mentioned that they didnt want to put the MP video on gamer's day up is because they dont want ppl to complain about the graphics. Lots of the assets like the character models and animation were taken straight from resistance 1 because the new mo cap ones arent ready yet. Those shots are from the gamers' day video, I got to say it looks pretty impressive already even at current stage for 60 players.

[patsu]

60 player map hands-on impression: http://www.tomsgames.com/us/2008/05/19/resistance2_multiplayer/


While playing the demo at Sony's event, I was surprised by how intimate the combat seemed with so many other players in the match. I never once felt crowded with dozens of other players in the match, and I never got disoriented on the map, which was impressive given the size of the environment. The new multiplayer mode was clearly designed to keep players from feeling overwhelmed by the size and scope of the battle, and Insomniac seems to have pulled off this feat with ease. The demo featured humans only and no Chimera, but there were plenty of familiar weapons from the first Resistance to use.

[Cornsnake]

Resistance 40 player games where always very chaotic, with player running of to attack and defend random nodes. And then suddenly the match is over because someone slipped through one of the many holes in your defence and takes down the reactor with the Arc-charger.

These dynamic objectives should fix that problem. I hope they also allow large clans to make their own objectives and order their own squads around. That would make for some more strategic gameplay. Previously ordering 10 people divided over 3 squads around was very difficult. If they would allow a leader to give orders using the visual cues as this dynamic objective AI has, that should make it a lot easier.

[Kittonwy]

Resistance 40 player games where always very chaotic, with player running of to attack and defend random nodes. And then suddenly the match is over because someone slipped through one of the many holes in your defence and takes down the reactor with the Arc-charger.

These dynamic objectives should fix that problem. I hope they also allow large clans to make their own objectives and order their own squads around. That would make for some more strategic gameplay. Previously ordering 10 people divided over 3 squads around was very difficult. If they would allow a leader to give orders using the visual cues as this dynamic objective AI has, that should make it a lot easier.

Are you talking about breach/assault? It's all very planned out, when the gaf clan used to play a ton of obj we always had a group of attackers, you take down one node then you go right to the base with augers/dragons/arc chargers, nothing happens all of a sudden, we knew which wall to shoot through with the auger to hit the base rods, by the time you spot one of us near the base, it's probably too late since one of us would have released a charged dragon shot or arc charged the crap out of the rods, obj isn't really for lone wolves who have no idea who's doing what.

[Cornsnake]

Yes, those gamemodes are best suited to clans. But even then you need a very big party. And in our clan its pretty much every man for him self outside of clanwars. Which usually means everyone attacks. Only with CTF we divided the team in attackers and defenders. Hopefully they'll make some changes to CTF too. Now your often forced to play the whole hour against an equal opponent, or they decide to all defend and you end up having towalk all the way to their base only to get killed and walk all way back again. So if we had a small party we just played TDM. Which also involved very little strategy, not even the wedge tactic. God forbid you stole someone's kill.:roll:

[Kittonwy]

Yes, those gamemodes are best suited to clans. But even then you need a very big party. And in our clan its pretty much every man for him self outside of clanwars. Which usually means everyone attacks. Only with CTF we divided the team in attackers and defenders. Hopefully they'll make some changes to CTF too. Now your often forced to play the whole hour against an equal opponent, or they decide to all defend and you end up having towalk all the way to their base only to get killed and walk all way back again. So if we had a small party we just played TDM. Which also involved very little strategy, not even the wedge tactic. God forbid you stole someone's kill.:roll:

That's not a clan.

Teh gaf clan likes the wedge very much.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v500/EvilTaru/angry.gif

[Cornsnake]

Well during clanwars its the complete opposite. We make a good strategy before the war. Everyone is divided in squads with each their own node's to defend or attack. And we train 2 times a week to practice for upcoming wars. So when we play ranked games everyone just does whatever they feel like instead of being told what to do. Its a shame were not playing clanwars wars on Resistance anymore. CoD4 popularity killed almost all activity on the clan ladders. But its massive shortcomings did revive it a few months later.

[AlStrong]

Eurogamer has a transcript of an interview with Ted Price:

http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=145245

[JPT]

Eurogamer has a transcript of an interview with Ted Price:

http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=145245

So 720p (or maybe we will see the 704 thing again), 30fps, trophy and home support. :)

And a bit more insight


16:26:16 -

robo_1 asks: This November, Insomniac will have delivered three major PS3 games, in the time it's taken other studios to get their first out of the door. How do you keep such a high workflow, whilst ensuring quality?


Ted Price: First, we're currently just developing for PS3. With one engine and one toolset it allows us to maintain a high level of efficiency with production. Second, we have overlapping teams. Meaning we always have at least one team in pre-production on a product while another team is in production. This means that we can roll from production to production easily. Third, our team is highly motivated to produce big AAA games. It's our passion.

[Cornsnake]

Its good to hear that they are going for 30fps. Who needs 60fps when we have 30fps as stable as the first Resistance.

[Lucid_Dreamer]

I wonder if their deferred rendering (http://www.insomniacgames.com/tech/articles/0208/insomniac_spu_programming_gdc08.php) (slide 28) has something to do with them making R2 30fps instead of 60fps.

[Phil]

Its good to hear that they are going for 30fps. Who needs 60fps when we have 30fps as stable as the first Resistance.

After having played COD4 and Ratchet & Clank, I do! Seriously, the difference is night and day.

[Arwin]

Eurogamer has a transcript of an interview with Ted Price:

http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=145245

That was a live event where Eurogamer readers could submit questions live and they would be answered by Ted Price.

Some interesting stuff in here. For instance, that in the Manchester open area where there's the big battle with lots of AI and such, the AI was becoming a bottleneck and couldn't keep up, so they had to do some serious optimisation.

I like R&C, but honestly, the 30fps in Resistance 1 was perfect for that game, 60fps would be overkill. Will be interesting to see though what this means in terms of graphics!

[Neb]

Its good to hear that they are going for 30fps. Who needs 60fps when we have 30fps as stable as the first Resistance.

Sure it is good, the new one is supposed to look better than the old one, probably impossible to achieve if they had aimed for solid locked 60fps.

[RenegadeRocks]

The 30fps is Resistance was extremely smooth ! I was surprised to hear it was 30, coz its smoothness felt more like 60fps! :)
@patsu: You rock in Resistance man !:cool:

[DJ12]

Having already stated that they would only release 60fps games from Ratchet onwards, I am slightly disappointed with the admission that R2 will only be 30fps.

I'm sure it will be as smooth as the first, but hell, colour me disappointed all the same.

[Scott_Arm]

Having already stated that they would only release 60fps games from Ratchet onwards, I am slightly disappointed with the admission that R2 will only be 30fps.

I'm sure it will be as smooth as the first, but hell, colour me disappointed all the same.


60fps is always nice, but devs will never stick to it. 30fps will remain the standard. Any game that runs at 60fps could be made at 30fps with slightly better graphics. Screenshots and vids sell games, so devs will always push the envelope graphically to stay competitive.

[DrJay24]

Most people cannot see the difference between a constant 30fps and 60fps for a FPS. IMO COD4 looks no smoother than R1, so I'll take the extra eye candy @30fps.

[djskribbles]

i can definitely tell a difference between 60fps and 30fps. that said, i'm perfectly fine with 30fps, as long as its as consistent as the first Resistance, especially for this type of game.

[Cheezdoodles]

With faced paced shooters imo 60fps is a must.

[DrJay24]

With faced paced shooters imo 60fps is a must.

Why?

Which current FPS are 60fps beside COD4 on the PS360?

[PARANOiA]

Bioshock (after unchecking the FPS fixer option) bumps to 60 for most the of game, though in combat it tends to dip to >30 but <60, resulting in some tearing. Having said that, it's certainly the best option for enjoying the game since it's so beautifully smooth.

It's difficult to measure, but if you've got the game, put it in and play for a bit on each option... the increase over the 30FPS mark is very noticeable.

[Neb]

Most people cannot see the difference between a constant 30fps and 60fps for a FPS. IMO COD4 looks no smoother than R1, so I'll take the extra eye candy @30fps.

I think most gamers will notice the difference, it is quite obvious. 30fps is slower "sluggish" wilst 60fps is fast more real-life like. Though 30fps with better eye-candy is IMO the best and games with 30fps+ and motion-blur (object mb preferably) = godness. I would say it is like riding a rollercoaster wagon at slow speed vs fast speed, both are good but one really grabs you! :lol:

[DrJay24]

I tried it, but why ask for tearing when you can have a smooth 30fps? I like the consistant frame rate without the loss of IQ, but I like the option.

[Nesh]

Bioshock (after unchecking the FPS fixer option) bumps to 60 for most the of game, though in combat it tends to dip to >30 but <60, resulting in some tearing. Having said that, it's certainly the best option for enjoying the game since it's so beautifully smooth.

It's difficult to measure, but if you've got the game, put it in and play for a bit on each option... the increase over the 30FPS mark is very noticeable.

FPS fixer option? What is that?

[nAo]

I wonder if their deferred rendering (http://www.insomniacgames.com/tech/articles/0208/insomniac_spu_programming_gdc08.php) (slide 28) has something to do with them making R2 30fps instead of 60fps.
You are misinterpreting the term, in that slide they are not talking about deferred rendering ala KZ2 or STALKER.

[Lucid_Dreamer]

My mistake, then. I was thinking it wasn't as involved as KZ2 in the level depth of the deferred rendering, but I was thinking it existed in some simplified form.

Would you give a simple generalization of what they mean (or point me in the right direction)? I would really appreciate it. Thanks

[Phil]

I tried it, but why ask for tearing when you can have a smooth 30fps? I like the consistant frame rate without the loss of IQ, but I like the option.

You tried what? Any framerate is bound to tearing when slowdowns occur. That's like saying we want 15fps games because we don't want any slowdowns at all. :roll:

60 fps games without tearing are possible. It was possible last generation, it was even possible on some games the generation before. No amount of (motion-) bluring can hide the sluggish controls compared to a true 60 fps title.

[Arwin]

The framerate of a game no longer by default equates to the rate at which the controls are being read. So that argument, I have to say, is a little outdated.

[Shifty Geezer]

60 fps games without tearing are possible.DrJay25 said he preferred the eye-candy. eg. If the choice is 30 fps with 4xAA or 60 fps 0AA, a lot would prefer the AA'd rendering.

[patsu]

As long as R2 stays as a dedicated server online game, the general response of the MP game should outweigh other factors. As Arwin pointed out, R1 also has capacity to handle input and internal calculations faster than 30fps (It was mentioned briefly in one of the interviews).

[Cornsnake]

They actually have new and improved dedicated servers for R2. Its a shame only Sony devs have these. All the time spend on trying to balance out the gameplay is wasted if there is lag.

[DrJay24]

You tried what? Any framerate is bound to tearing when slowdowns occur. That's like saying we want 15fps games because we don't want any slowdowns at all. :roll:



I was responding to the post about Bioshock. I preferred the v-sync on (which is default). If a game runs at 30-45fps, I want v-sync not a higher frame rate at the expense of tearing.

[kyleb]

I've only played the demo for the 360 version of Bioshock, and only when it just came out. However, I recall it often going over 60fps with vsync dissabled, which results in mulitple tears in a single refresh. And with vsync I'm pretty sure it is only double buffered with nothing but vsync capping the framerate, limited it to 30fps at some at some points and running 60fps at others.

[Phil]

The framerate of a game no longer by default equates to the rate at which the controls are being read. So that argument, I have to say, is a little outdated.

Of course it does - without the visual feedback to see what your input is doing on screen, having your inputs read at 3 times the framerate that the screen is being refreshed at doesn't make the game more responsive.

Sluggish controls is tied to framerate. Just play MGS3 and compare it to MGS2 (in first-person-mode) for a great comparison.

[JPT]

Wasnt there supposed to be a gameplay video released yesterday?

[Rangers]

Wasnt there supposed to be a gameplay video released yesterday?

I think it's today. The insomniac guy at GAF said it wont be a trailer but rather "lots of gameplay".

I cant remember if it's in conjunction with Friday night's gametrailerstv, as a lot of recent reveals have been, or not.

[Shifty Geezer]

Yes. The GTTV trailer says as much.
35017

[morlock]

I think it's today. The insomniac guy at GAF said it wont be a trailer but rather "lots of gameplay".
James Stevensson mentioned something like 7 minutes worth of gameplay!

EDIT: Yup, there is SP and MP footage, about 7 1/2 minutes or so.

[slider]

It's a November launch right? Five-ish months. I'm not expecting too much polish but seeing as they've sort of been pimping it I'm prepared to be surprised.

[Cornsnake]

Insomniac has made a few changes on how they develop games for R2. This time they focus on all the gameplay aspects first, and then start improving the grafix later. I wouldn't be surprised if it starts to look a lot better near the release.

[slider]

Oh absolutely. After all it is Insomniac and, as far as I'm concerned, they have five out of five this gen.

Plus, as we all know - it's the gameplay that really counts. ;)

[RenegadeRocks]

Its OUT !!!!!

http://www.gametrailers.com/gametrailerstv_player.php?ep=19&sd=1&ch=1

The textures have improved for sure.

[TheBlackLodge]

Hmmmm, not as impressed as I thought I would be.........

[DJ12]

Well, that video isn't as big as the frame it opens suggests. Is there a HD version?

Nevermind...

http://www.gametrailers.com/gametrailerstv_player.php?ep=19&ch=1&sd=0

[DrJay24]

Looks good, they obviously limited the footage and so showed the same clips over and over. They also showed a bunch of R1 clips, which may confuse people. I'm going to miss the weapon select wheel too.

[Neb]

Hmmmm, not as impressed as I thought I would be.........

Have to agree, really looked... old but with better art than the first game. Dunno about the massive slowdowns (low 10's) when he fought those 15-20 monsters running at him.

[Shifty Geezer]

It didn't have the same polish as, say, RnC, but as DrJay says, there did look to be some R1 footage in there. There was certainly something 'off' in some of the shots. To early to tell exactly what the final game will be like, and as such this footage wasn't much use, 'coz they didn't say anything about weapons, locations, gameplay...!

[JPT]

Well it says Work In Progress, so lets hope it can be improved before release :D

[DrJay24]

I saw no slowdowns, at least nothing noticeable. Make sure the video is buffered, it will stutter if not. Jump to about 40% (just before "Community Watch") mark to see tons of guys.

[patsu]

They started with gameplay first, so graphics development may lag. There is also no hit animation for the monsters yet. It looks like they have added more enemy variety. As long as they have more interesting moves and missions for Nathan to execute, I will be happy to try R2 out.

I was hoping they show us their social gaming community aspects soon, so people focus less on visual improvements (which will be there I believe but not KZ level)

[Neb]

I saw no slowdowns, at least nothing noticeable. Make sure the video is buffered, it will stutter if not. Jump to about 40% (just before "Community Watch") mark to see tons of guys.

I rewatched the same sequenze several times and I dont see how anyone can miss the low 10's framerate at that point uness one dont know really what framerate is. The video was downloaded both SD and HD by the way. :smile:

[Arwin]

The shots that actually seemed to be new and from Resistance 2 looked quite promising and polished already, and very smooth. I think this game is going to be pretty decent. Some bits reminded me of a not-too-great Will Smith movie ;).

[DrJay24]

I rewatched the same sequenze several times and I dont see how anyone can miss the low 10's framerate at that point uness one dont know really what framerate is. The video was downloaded both SD and HD by the way. :smile:

Where, at what point in the video? Apparently others missed it, you are the only one pointing it out. I don't know how 10-15 creatures in a alley could stress their engine, have you played the Manchester Cathedral level in R1?

[Neb]

Where, at what point in the video? Apparently others missed it, you are the only one pointing it out. I don't know how 10-15 creatures in a alley could stress their engine, have you played the Manchester Cathedral level in R1?

Got no time to pinpoint it for you in the video but if you cant see it then there is no need either since I would waste my time. Dont see what R1 has to do with R2 unless your are telling me they have the same graphic detail level? :smile:

[DJ12]

It's the first section where they show you the alley, later there is similar clips with loads of enemies in the same alley that do not slowdown, but the first one it does.

Maybe it's something wrong with the video as the part before it where he throws a grenade at the car also crawls along and there's hardly anything going on what so ever there.

[djskribbles]

still lots of time for Insomniac. i have no doubt that it will run at, or near a solid 30fps like the first. even R&C's framerate barely dipped.

as for the visuals, it looked really good. but i was also expecting a little better. definite improvement over the first.

i have no doubt the final product will look great though.

["Nerve-Damage"]

Well, that video isn't as big as the frame it opens suggests. Is there a HD version?

Nevermind...

http://www.gametrailers.com/gametrailerstv_player.php?ep=19&ch=1&sd=0


95% of that footage seems to be from R1. :???:

[Cheezdoodles]

still lots of time for Insomniac.

They got 5-6 months, i guess "lots of time" is very relative

[DJ12]

95% of that footage seems to be from R1. :???:
You must have played a different copy to me then ;)

The cutscenes are all from resistance 1, the models and textures look far better in the new footage.

[DrJay24]

Got no time to pinpoint it for you in the video but if you cant see it then there is no need either since I would waste my time

I took the time to review the footage after you made your claim, you should do the same (I actually think you did and came up empty). :oops:

BTW 5-6 months is kind of a long time when they are on a one game per year schedule.

[deepbrown]

They got 5-6 months, i guess "lots of time" is very relative

Well...it's Insomniac. They put a game a year...so 5-6months could be called half their dev time :wink:

As always framerate will be solid from Insomniac. I have no doubts.

*edit-*beat

[Dominik D]

They started with gameplay first, so graphics development may lag. There is also no hit animation for the monsters yet. It looks like they have added more enemy variety.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I got the imprssion that developers working on games are fairly specialized beasts. I find it hard to believe that with fixed pool of developers with various strengths, shifting resources between gameplay and gfx is possible.

That said I like what they do with gameplay design and how they "sell it". 60 player multi is a nice marketing bullet point on the box. But what is really unique from the gameplay perspective is not "how many", but "what". Dynamic objectives are great addition and I hope they make it tight. :)

Also obvious stress on the variety of gameplay with such details as different types of enemies and weapons in changing environments is a very good decision IMO.

On the other hand: it's still looking like Resistance. I found the first one extremely uninspired in terms of art style and so far I haven't seen anything fresh in this limited footage of R2. Forest environments are cool but they make R2 look even more like WW2 shooter.

[patsu]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I got the imprssion that developers working on games are fairly specialized beasts. I find it hard to believe that with fixed pool of developers with various strengths, shifting resources between gameplay and gfx is possible.


You don't have to mix graphics and gameplay resources (although they have to work together even more tightly).

It may mean they put together a few working levels end-to-end based on the prelim graphics engine and assets first. It gives them the advantage of tuning the game concept. The rest of the pieces can be added over time as and when they are ready.

I believe Nintendo takes this approach (It was mentioned in one of the Metroid Prime interviews). I remember Halo 3's 4-player co-op was confirmed pretty late in the game. Insomniac may be able to pre-announce their game features perhaps because they have an early idea of the entire 8 co-op player framework (plus also dedicated server set up). They may be able to do this because they overlap game development (R1 -> R&C -> R2). During the R&C period, someone may be using R1++ engine to implement R2 game concepts.

On the other hand: it's still looking like Resistance. I found the first one extremely uninspired in terms of art style and so far I haven't seen anything fresh in this limited footage of R2. Forest environments are cool but they make R2 look even more like WW2 shooter.

See above.

In any case, RFOM was never about #1 in graphics. It has an addictive gameplay and a well put together, dedicated server gaming framework.

[Shifty Geezer]

Well...it's Insomniac. They put a game a year...so 5-6months could be called half their dev time :wink:Staggered development though. You can be working on two projects at a time with a two year development cycle, but offset releases by a year.

I don't doubt Insomniac will attain high targets regardless. And whether they do or don't, there's absolutely no point now trying to comment on the quality of the release title and second guess what they can/will achieve. Analysis of WIP builds has to remain firmly in the objective consideration of what's being achieved - 'I like the shadowing/lighting, good texture engine, etc.' 'I think the texturing needs work, what is that thing they do with the shadowing that makes it blocky? Why's it dithered? etc.'
(these comments are indivcative of the sort of discussion to be had with any WIP game, and aren't observations of RFoM2.)

[deepbrown]

Staggered development though. You can be working on two projects at a time with a two year development cycle, but offset releases by a year.

I don't doubt Insomniac will attain high targets regardless. And whether they do or don't, there's absolutely no point now trying to comment on the quality of the release title and second guess what they can/will achieve. Analysis of WIP builds has to remain firmly in the objective consideration of what's being achieved - 'I like the shadowing/lighting, good texture engine, etc.' 'I think the texturing needs work, what is that thing they do with the shadowing that makes it blocky? Why's it dithered? etc.'
(these comments are indivcative of the sort of discussion to be had with any WIP game, and aren't observations of RFoM2.)

That's why I said "could be called half their dev time" - I realise they most likely develop titles over 2 years. And I agree, comment on everything - but not the framerate, or tearing. That's the kind of stuff that is fixed towards the end of development.

[Cornsnake]

They changed health system. They had the perfect balance between rechargeable health and health packs to restore segments for Rfom. And now you can only carry 2 weapons. Unless there are plenty different weapons lying around we won't be able to experiment as much as in Rfom. They maybe changing things to be more like CoD4, but they should not loose sight of what made Rfom so great in the first place. James Stevenson on gaf said we should have faith in them, but I like to try it before I believe it.

[patsu]

I think it depends on whether they allow us to drop weapons. If we can swap weapons with new ones, the mechanism is not that restricting but will force us to travel to various weapon spawn points.

For MP game, I noticed that most players don't use a large arsenal at the same time anyway (They may collect weapons but die before using > 1). In some ways, the 2 weapon limit might affect the top players more. They will run out of ammo and have to abandon their holed up positions to look for supplies. It is very difficult to dislodge an excellent player when (i) it's faster to switch weapons than to reload; and (ii) He can pull out a rocket launcher at the last minute (The good ones usually save it for rainy days).

The limit will probably encourage more collaboration, but somehow I doubt it. Insomniac will also need to adjust the spawn points and spawn frequencies since people's consumption pattern will change because of this limit.

That said, I am not sure how it will play out amongst the general public. The Insomniacs are probably all pros, so their regular testing will be skewed.

For SP games, I hope they keep it the same as R1. Then again, Halo 1 has 2 weapon limit but I enjoyed it regardless.

[betan]

They started with gameplay first, so graphics development may lag.
The thing is, it may never catch up as a result of gameplay first rule.
I suspect those levels will look similar in the end considering the amount of stuff and complexity of the city (and especially if those are mostly from coop campaign), but also there will be more than enough levels suitable for "best graphics" flame wars.

They changed health system. They had the perfect balance between rechargeable health and health packs to restore segments for Rfom. And now you can only carry 2 weapons. Unless there are plenty different weapons lying around we won't be able to experiment as much as in Rfom. They maybe changing things to be more like CoD4, but they should not loose sight of what made Rfom so great in the first place. James Stevenson on gaf said we should have faith in them, but I like to try it before I believe it.

The limited weapon shit is so not Resistance, it really made me angry seeing the "triangle for carbine" notice on screen. :/
A game famous for its weapons shouldn't bother. I hope it's for co-op only which would be understandable. At least give me the weapon circle for the second playthrough.

I will also get mad if new Bullseye bullets are significantly faster than the original. Same goes for Auger.

Those said, the flood scene of the new Chimera does really show off one of the main reasons I like R1 single player. Awesome footage.

[patsu]

The thing is, it may never catch up as a result of gameplay first rule.
I suspect those levels will look similar in the end considering the amount of stuff and complexity of the city (and especially if those are mostly from coop campaign), but also there will be more than enough levels suitable for "best graphics" flame wars.


Yeah well, from my perspective, as long as they nail the gameplay... the rest will fall in place. People will always complain about graphics, one flaw or another. As long as some of the levels look top tier, I think most people should be happy. I won't expect Uncharted level of textures, KZ2 level of lighting, MGS4 level of craftmanship or GTA4 level of openness and scale. Resistance is gameplay and gameplay is Resistance. ;-)


The limited weapon shit is so not Resistance, it really made me angry seeing the "triangle for carbine" notice on screen. :/
A game famous for its weapons shouldn't bother. I hope it's for co-op only which would be understandable. At least give me the weapon circle for the second playthrough.


I need to play a few MP rounds to be convinced either way. But in SP, I am almost certain no weapon limit is the better way to go.


I will also get mad if new Bullseye bullets are significantly faster than the original. Same goes for Auger.


Yap. Chimera rage + Bullseye kill ridiculously quick. I love Auger. I am one of the few who has 1000+ Auger kills (Muahahaha). Did I say I love Auger ? I sucked at other weapons


Those said, the flood scene of the new Chimera does really show off one of the main reasons I like R1 single player. Awesome footage.

They say R2 has a new enemy race. Dunno whether it's true or not. The new Chimera (Ghoul ?) looks like a smaller version of Gray Jacks. I hate those things in a closed room. They are too fast (A little too hairy to handle with slow shotgun loading). Freaked me out the last time.

[Kittonwy]

Frankly I don't care about the gameplay changes because I don't think they're going to make a huge difference given most people probably use two weapons most of the time, and the health system should be familiar to anyone playing as human in MP. Yeah the grims, they rush you, I get it, not a huge deal.

The main problem right now is the graphics, it's not like the system can't do HDR, we've seen it done in many games (Uncharted, MGS4, GTAIV), it's not like the system can't do self-shadowing, anybody playing MGS4 or GTAIV or Uncharted can see it clearly implemented, so where are these two features in Resistance 2? High polygon count and huge draw distance aren't things that are a huge draw anymore, lighting and shadowing are needed to set the mood for the level and in the Gamestrailer videos, character self-shadowing is lacking, even things that should have at least baked shadows do not, and they still have that light bloom which doesn't really look all that great but HDR lighting is missing.

Resistance 1 didn't have a lot of deficiencies in terms of gameplay, the graphics was what they needed to work on, lighting and shadowing was the main issue. Ratchet was also missing HDR and self-shadowing and doesn't look as good as Uncharted which came out around the same time. I just wonder what the problem is, we're talking about a third-generation game, Insomniac should be familiar with the hardware, at least enough to implement graphical features missing from their first two games on the system. As a fan of the first game I'm not going to overlook graphical flaws just because the gameplay is great, it's a big franchise and it should be impressive both graphically and gameplay-wise, fans should want the game to be as great as possible in terms of both aspects.

[JPT]

Are you saying that you will not buy and play R2, even if its great fun to play, because of missing HDR and self shadowing?

I do not know much about graphics and the reason I am on this board is because its more civilized than other boards, or better policed ;) But still for this place, your view seems a bit extreme, imho.

Personally I would have a new fun gameplay feature before anymore graphic fluff :)
Also in their podcasts they keep saying that it will be much better, this is a work in progress and should be considered as one.

As for the gameplay first then polish later, I totally agree, look at Assassins Creed, it looks nice, but to me its an uther bore to play, maybe it could have been more fun if they spent more time on the gameplay?

[Kittonwy]

In any case, RFOM was never about #1 in graphics. It has an addictive gameplay and a well put together, dedicated server gaming framework.

No offense but RFOM is the single biggest first-party PS3 franchise since the system's launch, it's supposed to be this holiday season's blockbuster title for the PS3, why it can't have the best graphics for a shooter on the PS3 is simply puzzling to me, especially given the fact that this is the THIRD game Insomniac is developing on the system and other developers have managed to implement things like HDR lighting and at least character self-shadowing in their FIRST games on the system. Obviously the gameplay has taken a major step forward but it seems like the art side has simply dropped the ball. It makes me wonder what the heck is going on.

It's not like I don't care about the gameplay either because I just played R1 for an hour last night with the clan and I would choose to play it over GTAIV MP any night of the week.

[Kittonwy]

Are you saying that you will not buy and play R2, even if its great fun to play, because of missing HDR and self shadowing?

So just because I enjoyed the first game and supported it with my money, and would like nothing else but to buy the sequel to experience the gameplay enhancements, that I shouldn't expect a similar level of enhancement in graphics?



I do not know much about graphics and the reason I am on this board is because its more civilized than other boards, or better policed ;) But still for this place, your view seems a bit extreme, imho.

There's nothing extreme about my view, I like the gameplay enhancements, I'm not complaining about the health system or the two weapons limit. I happen to think the franchise I like should be visually impressive both visually and in terms of gameplay.


Personally I would have a new fun gameplay feature before anymore graphic fluff :)
Also in their podcasts they keep saying that it will be much better, this is a work in progress and should be considered as one.

As for the gameplay first then polish later, I totally agree, look at Assassins Creed, it looks nice, but to me its an uther bore to play, maybe it could have been more fun if they spent more time on the gameplay?

Graphics and gameplay aren't mutually exclusive, and it isn't like their gameplay designers double as their graphics programmers so they have to give up one for the other.

The biggest problem with the first game was graphics, the first game was lacking HDR lighting and self-shadowing, if those things aren't important I wonder why all the big games have them, the first game was never really lacking in MP gameplay, the first thing they needed to address was to impress people visually or at least bring it to a level that is on par with the games already out there, the first screenshots they released in Game Informer were VERY nice, the media they released subsquently has been unimpressive. Why show the Chicago level if it isn't ready and isn't going to impress?

[MazingerDUDE]

The only issue I had with the RE2 vid I saw at GT was it's horrible tearing.

I know Insomniac's previous PS3 games had virtually zero tearings, so I expect RE2 be the same.

I'd personally take locked up V-Sync over any fancy lighting/shadowing.

What good of a pretty picture if it tears?

[patsu]

No offense but RFOM is the single biggest first-party PS3 franchise since the system's launch, it's supposed to be this holiday season's blockbuster title for the PS3, why it can't have the best graphics for a shooter on the PS3 is simply puzzling to me, especially given the fact that this is the THIRD game Insomniac is developing on the system and other developers have managed to implement things like HDR lighting and at least character self-shadowing in their FIRST games on the system. Obviously the gameplay has taken a major step forward but it seems like the art side has simply dropped the ball. It makes me wonder what the heck is going on.


I think their main competitor will be CoD4. From that perspective, R2 will need to revv its graphics enough to comparable or exceeding standards. However, I just don't think they intend to beat Uncharted, LittleBigPlanet, MGS4, KZ2 (demo) in the visual department. Some love highly detailed textures, others place more emphasis on art direction, many prefer dynamic lighting and "perfect" shadows, etc. It seems like a futile exercise since there is no universal standard.

If we limit ourselves to shooters only...
I'd expect Insomniac to put in a worthy effort, but only shine in areas that are important to FPSes: responsiveness, stable framerate, amount of enemy activities, draw distance, enemy IQ (intelligence quotient), weapon effects, etc.

Most importantly, *if* Insomniac is experimenting heavily in gameplay, they may not have enough time to optimize for graphics all the way (say... if they locked down the gameplay late).


It's not like I don't care about the gameplay either because I just played R1 for an hour last night with the clan and I would choose to play it over GTAIV MP any night of the week.

Yeah I know, Kittonwy. But besides richer gameplay, Insomniac is also trying to roll out a new social FPS framework. I think scope-wise, the team has already surpassed their last game by 2-3 times.

[nAo]

Insomniac always released games with amazing graphics and gameplay (since their PS1 days!). It shouldn't really come as a surprise if ppl expect from them outstanding graphics technology/art.

[DJ12]

Personally, I cannot believe "that is it" on the graphics front.

Ratchet was a huge leap graphically over R1 and running at twice the framerate, it doesn't really compute that R2 is barely going to look any better than R1 with Insomniac going back to 30fps.

I think the problem is they wanted to show something, but nothing that's going to kill the E3 buzz that they want. You don't show all your cards at once.

[patsu]

I am scared of Kittonwy's ambition and expectation. Is it good enough to have amazing graphics but without self shadowing and HDR in everything, or being #3 in graphics ?

[_phil_]

Ratchet was a huge leap graphically over R1 and running at twice the framerate.

I strongly disagree.Nothing in Ratchet touches the best levels of R1.The style of Ratchet might be cheating the perceptions.


R2 is barely going to look any better than R1 with Insomniac going back to 30fps.


If think on the coutrary that R2 is allready (as it's been shown in the last videos) more impressive than both the older games on every front ,(except some textures here and here).

R2 world seems like evereything is big and with a wide scope.Probably an unmatched scope for the genre.The game is pretty long and is 3 games in one.
They obviously won't put the same density of detail like in games like Uncharted or Geow.

[Cornsnake]

I don't expect Insomniac to run out of time to polish it. Their planning is very accurate.

You should use the Arc-charger on those grey jacks. It fires faster and wont run out of ammo on that first encounter.

The more I think about having only two weapons the less I like it. You always want something with good enough range and fire rate like the carabyne and bullseye. So you can only carry one extra and if you need another you have to go look for it. Nobody is going to look around for a gun when they are being shot at.

Insomniac is going to give some extra explanation on their next podcast and on the playstation blog. I'm starting to see a pattern here, everytime they release new info they have to explain them selfs afterwards. They should release things that are almost finished.

[Kittonwy]

I am scared of Kittonwy's ambition and expectation. Is it good enough to have amazing graphics but without self shadowing and HDR in everything, or being #3 in graphics ?

I would be kind of disappointed if they don't implement those two things, they seem like standard graphical features for any big budget current-gen game, I really don't get their aversion to self-shadowing.

Like I've said, I love the first game, got all the expansions, and still play it to this day, so I want the sequel to be the best it can be.

[nAo]

HDR is not something that you drop at the last minute. It can dramatically change your rendering time, your renderer architecture and the way the content is authored.

[_phil_]

GeOW didn't have hdr ,and concerning self shadowing ,i'd had prefered they unflag it...

[Kittonwy]

HDR is not something that you drop at the last minute. It can dramatically change your rendering time, your renderer architecture and the way the content is authored.

That's why I'm surprised that it's not included from the get-go. You guys had it from day-one in Heavenly Sword, Motorstorm had it from day one, Uncharted had it from day one, even SOCOM Confrontation, basically a second-tier franchise now, seems to have it. I just don't understand how they figure that their solution of LDR + bloom and no self-shadowing is somehow competitive graphically with what's out there, heck doesn't GTAIV use logluv and self-shadowing? They must have known lighting and shadowing was a weakspot in the first game, heck it was a weakspot in Ratchet.

[nAo]

What can I say, I guess rendering engineers at insomniac are bot big fans of HDR rendering.
On the other hand they are very good, so I guess they took certain decisions/made certain tradeoffs to give us some amazingly good looking games (see R&C :) )

[Kittonwy]

What can I say, I guess rendering engineers at insomniac are bot big fans of HDR rendering.
On the other hand they are very good, so I guess they took certain decisions/made certain tradeoffs to give us some amazingly good looking games (see R&C :) )

But why would anyone have anything against logluv? Logluv is our friend.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v500/EvilTaru/angry.gif

They need to kill that bloom in SP, I thought it was a bit too much, MP surprisingly looks better than SP, maybe because it doesn't have bloom, I don't get the obsession with bloom, few games actually used it well.

[Lucid_Dreamer]

No offense but RFOM is the single biggest first-party PS3 franchise since the system's launch, it's supposed to be this holiday season's blockbuster title for the PS3, why it can't have the best graphics for a shooter on the PS3 is simply puzzling to me, especially given the fact that this is the THIRD game Insomniac is developing on the system and other developers have managed to implement things like HDR lighting and at least character self-shadowing in their FIRST games on the system.
I thought Insomniac was a 2nd party developer...not 1st party.

[Kittonwy]

I thought Insomniac was a 2nd party developer...not 1st party.

I meant that Sony owns the IP and is publishing the game, the game is a first-party game.

[Shifty Geezer]

I'm not overly fussed over lack of HDR. Much of the time the implementation seems weak to me anyway, without suitable adjustment between light and dark areas. The attained results I've seen in games can be simulated in standard range, IMO. Self-shadowing does detract a lot from realism though, and i hope the final rendition incorporates it. Games have been managing great strides in that department, probably the biggest improvement over last-gen visuals in terms of creating realistic, "solid" graphics.

[Kittonwy]

Uncharted, MGS4, Heavenly Sword and GT5p handled HDR very well. I agree on the point about self-shadowing though, without it the characters just stand out in the environment, it just hurts that immersion factor.

[ultragpu]

Insomniac is hiding the grand epic battles for E3 im sure of it. a trailer that incorporates all thats been shown in the early screenshots, just imagine to see them move and then, Kittonwy, you'll forget all about the lack of HDR and selfshadowing. Jstevens did confirm that those screens accurately represent the game. it's jus that they're not showing them yet.

[Neb]

Uncharted, MGS4, Heavenly Sword and GT5p handled HDR very well. I agree on the point about self-shadowing though, without it the characters just stand out in the environment, it just hurts that immersion factor.

They cant have it all unless you want the framerate to crawl. As it is already it has lots of tearing and slowdowns as evident in the latest video.

[Shifty Geezer]

Uncharted, MGS4, Heavenly Sword and GT5p handled HDR very well.I've only seen one of those, but Uncharted had such a limited transition between underexposed and properly exposed dark areas that it was barely worth bothering with IMO. Given the cost of HDR, unless you're seriously exploring contrastingly lit areas in the game, most times using a birghtness/contrast hack when changing from dark to bright areas (and back again) is enough to give the right impression. GT3 managed this exceptionally well giving a very convincing feel of aperture adjustment when driving towards the sun.

[Cornsnake]

The new bullseye allows you to see your target through walls after you tagged him. Just when I thought it couldn't be more of a noob weapon.

[obonicus]

Do any FPS' have self-shadowing? Crysis?

[the ignoramus]

I will be honest here, I am fairly upset with the people suggesting that the recent footage looks like crap. Am I watching the same footage here? I was goddamn impressed.While the lighting and texture work may not have been impressive, I was stunned by some of the draw distances ,the dense level of geometry,and the general business of the environments. In addition to that,the apparent detail in the creature design, weapons, and enemy ships was als impressive. One particular gameplay segment that staggered me was the Grim footage. Two dozen or more detailed, well animated creatures rushing towards the player in a ridiculous onslaught......it was awesome and significantly more impressive than anything I'd seen in Resistance 1. (It also happened to look more fun and exciting than anything that other first party shooter has shown.) I'm not sure what others seeing, but I myself have seen some substantial graphics evolution from R1, and in some instances ,R&C 5.

[Rockster]

It doesn't look all that bad. Has a sort of Half-Life feel to it. You can't judge a book by its cover anyway. That said, at this point I'm back leaning towards getting Left 4 Dead instead. Just have to wait and see how they turn out.

[ultragpu]

I will be honest here, I am fairly upset with the people suggesting that the recent footage looks like crap. Am I watching the same footage here? I was goddamn impressed.While the lighting and texture work may not have been impressive, I was stunned by some of the draw distances ,the dense level of geometry,and the general business of the environments. In addition to that,the apparent detail in the creature design, weapons, and enemy ships was als impressive. One particular gameplay segment that staggered me was the Grim footage. Two dozen or more detailed, well animated creatures rushing towards the player in a ridiculous onslaught......it was awesome and significantly more impressive than anything I'd seen in Resistance 1. (It also happened to look more fun and exciting than anything that other first party shooter has shown.) I'm not sure what others seeing, but I myself have seen some substantial graphics evolution from R1, and in some instances ,R&C 5.

yeah, i thoght the grim horde level was pretty damn awsome too, the amount of onscreen action simply blew me away. to me i just dont think Chicago level was the best showcase level for the game. it's not that we havent seen wat the engine can do, everything is still there according to Jstevens and why cant people just wait for abit more footage to judge.

[RenegadeRocks]

Has a sort of Half-Life feel to it. You can't judge a book by its cover anyway.

The exact thing I thought when I saw the footage for the first time!
The flying drone thing pointed totally to HL2.
I hope the Resistance feel stays as I like the art style of the R1, was very different than any else. If it starts feeling like HL2, then it will lose its appeal!

EDIT: Just saw the Chicago video, I like the Gameplay ! :) Its Resistance style, but seems to be on God mode, he was getting hit a lot, and wouldn't die! Graphics need polish as the buildings seemed like boxes with textures, but I trust insomniac after R and Ratchet!
Colour scheme doesn't seem to fit Resistance style....

[Neb]

Do any FPS' have self-shadowing? Crysis?

Lots of games has self-shadowing, been common on PC atleast since last-gen for the records. DOOM 3 is one example (PC/xbox), this gen it is standard even for RTS games. Of course its up to the devs if they want or not acording to the perfomance impact.

[deepbrown]

I've only seen one of those, but Uncharted had such a limited transition between underexposed and properly exposed dark areas that it was barely worth bothering with IMO. Given the cost of HDR, unless you're seriously exploring contrastingly lit areas in the game, most times using a birghtness/contrast hack when changing from dark to bright areas (and back again) is enough to give the right impression. GT3 managed this exceptionally well giving a very convincing feel of aperture adjustment when driving towards the sun.

That can't be the only reason for HDR Shifty...is it? Because when looking at Heavenly Sword, Uncharted, GT5p etc...they all have some of the best lighting in games ever - so HDR does a lot more than change from light to dark.

[zed]

That can't be the only reason for HDR Shifty...is it? Because when looking at Heavenly Sword, Uncharted, GT5p etc...they all have some of the best lighting in games ever - so HDR does a lot more than change from light to dark.
HDR is nice and all but it is overrated, in taking a ~20% performance drop in doing it personally i think its not worth it, esp when i've measured scenes where the final result onscreen between HDR + LDR is minimal + is often practically nonexistance!!! ie ~20% drop for something u cant even see unless u analise the screen with a miagnifier!!!
but as others have pointed out selfshadowing is far far more important, most games even the big names eg (half life2, resistence, halo3, gears of war, god of war etc) now the reason most games choose HDR over selfshadowiing is cause
A its harder to do right (+ nearly impossible to perfect)
B its more expensive than HDR
ie devs take the path of least resistance (to return the subject to its roots)

[deepbrown]

HDR is nice and all but it is overrated, in taking a ~20% performance drop in doing it personally i think its not worth it, esp when i've measured scenes where the final result onscreen between HDR + LDR is minimal + is often practically nonexistance!!! ie ~20% drop for something u cant even see unless u analise the screen with a miagnifier!!!
but as others have pointed out selfshadowing is far far more important, most games even the big names eg (half life2, resistence, halo3, gears of war, god of war etc) now the reason most games choose HDR over selfshadowiing is cause
A its harder to do right (+ nearly impossible to perfect)
B its more expensive than HDR
ie devs take the path of least resistance (to return the subject to its roots)

I know what you're saying, but as a non-developer I'm not convinced. All the games with the best lighting have HDR...can't just be a coincidence.

[Cheezdoodles]

Do any FPS' have self-shadowing? Crysis?

Just about any good FPS game on the X360\PS3 has self-shadowing.

[RenegadeRocks]

Just watched it again on my HDTV ! I might have been underwhelmed earlier, but now I like it ! :)

Did you guys notice that there were chimera in the water too. Looks like Chimera brought thier pets to America too ;)

[2real4tv]

I know what you're saying, but as a non-developer I'm not convinced. All the games with the best lighting have HDR...can't just be a coincidence.

I agree HDR with dynamic shadows FTW.

[JPT]

I agree HDR with dynamic shadows FTW.

But should that be implemented at the expense of gameplay and fun? Its nice to have the best graphics, but what is the point if there is no other reason to play the game?

[Shifty Geezer]

A quality developer like Insomniac should be expected to achieve both - they always have done before! It's mostly Insomniac's reputation that's creating any negative impressions of the media shown so far. If other 'lesser' developers are managing better visual results in similar titles, what's one of the best developer's in the world's excuse? That's the argument anyhow. And it is a bit premature as we don't yet know how the engine will pan out by the end, as to how they've prioritized development and which areas will see the most improvement between now and release.

[zed]

Just about any good FPS game on the X360\PS3 has self-shadowing.
both flagship FPS titles for those consoles dont have selfshadowing
ps3 - resistence
xbox360 - halo3

not to mention that 90+% of FPSs still employ lightmapping (from quake2 but at higher depths) as the main lighting method, comeon that games over 10 years old

A quality developer like Insomniac should be expected to achieve bothi agree, true with resistence2 theyve good a lot more going on than any console FPS so are pushing the boundries that way but it shouldnt come at the expense of the single most important thing visually the lighting

[Neb]

i agree, true with resistence2 theyve good a lot more going on than any console FPS so are pushing the boundries that way but it shouldnt come at the expense of the single most important thing visually the lighting

If it was doing that then that would explain why they ditched the self-shadowing and HDr.

[zed]

i wrote good (i meant got)
i have no idea about the game, was resitence2 first doing selfshadowing+HDR + is now not?

by pushing boundries i mean more the shear number of things going on 60ppl is unheard of in a FPS i think (definitly in a console FPS) its a question of compromises,
ditching HDR is ok (as its very very overrated) a unified lighting model (selfshadowing) though is not + counts as a big red cross next to the title

[Cornsnake]

It never had HDR or self-shadowing.

The new podcast is up. It will probably explain a few things.

Edit. Shadows will be improved, new effects are going in from now on, but nothing on HDR. 2 weapons limit for all gamemodes.

[DrJay24]

Good pod cast. They mention that having re-written everything from R1 makes it hard to show stuff early, which won't be true for R3... They also talk about the screen tearing and say the transfer made it worse than it is in game. They will be locked for release. They talk about the new tools and tech going in now and that the demo had to use an older stable build.

[FirewalkR]

They also pretty much imply that the amazing tech that wowed a visiting crowd including some japanese devs is the water. (not the version shown)

[Kittonwy]

It never had HDR or self-shadowing.

The new podcast is up. It will probably explain a few things.

Edit. Shadows will be improved, new effects are going in from now on, but nothing on HDR. 2 weapons limit for all gamemodes.

Ima happy to hear about teh shadows.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v500/EvilTaru/Indifferent2.gif

[Gitaroo]

the need to lower the yellowish bloom, I think the might hide alot of the detail, kind of like MGS4 in 2006 compare to the final version.

[TurnDragoZeroV2G]

both flagship FPS titles for those consoles dont have selfshadowing
ps3 - resistence
xbox360 - halo3


Halo 3 has self shadowing.



Since I just bought a PS3 (40 gig, 100 dollar gift card deal from walmart), I've been playing through Resistance. Quite a lot of fun (once I went to hard). I'm really looking forward to resistance two because of it, though there are many things I don't care for in the title.

[DrJay24]

Links to three HD (and SD) videos which were the source for the show material. They are longer and not so chopped up.

http://www.gametrailers.com/game/6112.html

[zed]

Halo 3 has self shadowing.
http://www.gamespot.com/pages/image_viewer/frame_lead.php?pid=926632&img=13#view_full_size
it looks like it just projects a blurred shadow texture from some important objects, eg ppl, vehicles. ( apparently dead guys dont make the grade :grin: )

had a look at the 3rd gameplay video from R2
http://www.gametrailers.com/player/35172.html
+ no theres no selfshadowing, gameplay actually looks good (miles better than killzone2 IMO)
a bit like a latter day zombie film, all the zombies jumping down from the buildings + rushing you, sweet.
now if there was mouse support ild love to give this a whirl

[deepbrown]

http://www.gamespot.com/pages/image_viewer/frame_lead.php?pid=926632&img=13#view_full_size
it looks like it just projects a blurred shadow texture from some important objects, eg ppl, vehicles. ( apparently dead guys dont make the grade :grin: )

had a look at the 3rd gameplay video from R2
http://www.gametrailers.com/player/35172.html
+ no theres no selfshadowing, gameplay actually looks good (miles better than killzone2 IMO)
a bit like a latter day zombie film, all the zombies jumping down from the buildings + rushing you, sweet.
now if there was mouse support ild love to give this a whirl

Aye the animation of those zombies running (presumed motion capture) is amazing - definately reminds me of the running zombies in 28 Days Later (great film!). Really disturbing. In fact, that Chimera that scared the bejesus out of me in R1 were the tall lanky ones that ran at you :O OMG I wet myself. lol

[TurnDragoZeroV2G]

http://www.gamespot.com/pages/image_viewer/frame_lead.php?pid=926632&img=13#view_full_size
it looks like it just projects a blurred shadow texture from some important objects, eg ppl, vehicles. ( apparently dead guys dont make the grade :grin: )

Indeed, only a few objects will cast a shadow at the same time, and dead bodies' shadows are dropped immediately, regardless of distance. Nevertheless, the game still has self-shadowing on all objects casting shadows...

[obonicus]

http://www.gamespot.com/pages/image_viewer/frame_lead.php?pid=926632&img=13#view_full_size
it looks like it just projects a blurred shadow texture from some important objects, eg ppl, vehicles. ( apparently dead guys dont make the grade :grin: )

had a look at the 3rd gameplay video from R2
http://www.gametrailers.com/player/35172.html
+ no theres no selfshadowing, gameplay actually looks good (miles better than killzone2 IMO)
a bit like a latter day zombie film, all the zombies jumping down from the buildings + rushing you, sweet.
now if there was mouse support ild love to give this a whirl

Hope the sound isn't indicative of the final product. I like my shotguns with more bass.

[ultragpu]

i think R2 uses some parallax mapping on the ground, very noticeable in the Chicago water level. now cant wait for e3 for the improved version. anyone know when is e3 this year?

[Cheezdoodles]

+ no theres no selfshadowing, gameplay actually looks good (miles better than killzone2 IMO)

I dont think you understand, selfshadowing means that objects\characters\etc can cast shadows on eachother and on themselves.

Selfshadowing is a good thing..

[zed]

I dont think you understand, selfshadowing means that objects\characters\etc can cast shadows on eachother and on themselves.
Selfshadowing is a good thing..
yes i agree selfshadowing is a good thing, perhaps youre right + resistence2 does have selfshadowing but from my looking at the video (admittedly which was pretty low quality) it didnt look like it did.

[Cheezdoodles]

yes i agree selfshadowing is a good thing,

Then why on earth did you make the argument that R2 looks better than KZ2 because it does not have selfshadowing?

[AlStrong]

Then why on earth did you make the argument that R2 looks better than KZ2 because it does not have selfshadowing?


+ no theres no selfshadowing, gameplay actually looks good (miles better than killzone2 IMO)

Just a misunderstanding of punctuation I presume (and perhaps a missing 'but')

[zed]

yes sorry youve misunderstood me, I meant the gameplay of resistence2 compared to kz2 looks much more fun, R2 is quite possibly the first FPS ive wanted to play since quake3arena!! (lack of mouse support though would be a no go). though of course visually kz2 is far superior to resistence2

[RenegadeRocks]

I think Insomniac should upgrade their Lighting tech now, coz gameplay wise Resistance was the best, shaders are cool in Ratchet, I was hoping that they would naturally focus on lighting next !

One big gripe will be the missing weapon selection Ratchet style ring of R1,
I used to tell people that R1 is so replayable coz u have so many different weapons and u can always try a different strategy the next time, try and find the best weapon for a particular enemy and still find out that ur friend thinks some other weapon is best for that enemy.

With the weapons gone and R2 returning to "just another" two weapon wielding method, it will lose its charm and also its identity as the crazy weapons as well as the carry them all differentiated it from other FPSs !

EDIT: I mean the weapons are still there,but not having them with me all the time nullifies the presence of the wide range, especially in Resistance.

[JPT]

In their last podcast they say that alot of their new tech will be added into the game from now. It was just not ready yet and they have focused on enhancing the gameplay.

As for the 2 weapons thing, well in their podcast a couple of the guys say they where against it when they heard about it to, but after playing the game it works well.

So shouldn't we trust them, atleast until we are able to try it our for ourself? I mean its Insomniac that actually made R:FoM and its their decisions that made it fun to play.

Is this not like second guessing Michael Schumacker about his car setup without even knowing anything about his car?

[Cornsnake]

The reason for the two weapon limit, was because the fans said the first game started too slow. This allows them to make the weapons you start with more powerfull. To me its sound like we are going to have more generic weapons because they need to serve more purpesses and more liniear gameplay.

[betan]

The reason for the two weapon limit, was because the fans said the first game started too slow. This allows them to make the weapons you start with more powerfull.
I don't buy that project manager's explanation. They can always limit the ammo early on, or better yet hide the ammo in randomly generated sewers.

Game looks really good, but Insomniac guys don't fill me with the confidence I expect from my favorite developers. :(

[Cornsnake]

I dont think the weapons were the reason why Resistance started slow. That had more to do with the generic WW2 looks the first levels had and only 2 different types of enemies to kill. It wasn't until Manchester where the battles got a much larger scale that the game showed things that where beyond last gen shooters.

[Cornsnake]

There's another thing thats been bothering me. When they first announced Resistance 2, they told us about 60 player online, 8 player co-op, and they had screenshots showing more colour while maintaining the dark under tone and concept art showing huge bosses. They created an enormous amount of buzz around the game. But everything after that doesn't even close. And while they have certainly put more effort in selling the game than ever before, all the hype they had is slowly fading away. Constantly having to tell us to trust them basically confirms that its all gone and isn't making the situation any better. Supposedly the game is already as far as being playable all the way through. If they have something great to show us. And they probably have. Now would be the time to show it. They need to release a demo already.

[Cheezdoodles]

I dont think the weapons were the reason why Resistance started slow. That had more to do with the generic WW2 looks the first levels had and only 2 different types of enemies to kill. It wasn't until Manchester where the battles got a much larger scale that the game showed things that where beyond last gen shooters.

I got resistance, but i havent really played it. Me and a friend tried the coop split screen, we got terribly bored about 20 minutes in, it felt like a bad WW2 clone with monsters. And the graphics where terrible in split screen, and i didn't get any feel for the monster and the weapons.. Haven't really tried playing it since.

[RenegadeRocks]

I got resistance, but i havent really played it. Me and a friend tried the coop split screen, we got terribly bored about 20 minutes in, it felt like a bad WW2 clone with monsters. And the graphics where terrible in split screen, and i didn't get any feel for the monster and the weapons.. Haven't really tried playing it since.

Play more of it....trust me it gets better and better as you move on. And the graphics also keep getting better with every level , climaxing at the alien Tower ! Beautiful. Looks like their tech was advancing as they were making new levels, and really shined in the end and in the Snow levels.

From ur reaction, I can understand what the developers mean when they say it had a slow start. As for me, I think good games always let you in bit by bit slowly till you don't even realise and you are completely imeersed in the game. RE4 was like that and to me, personally, R1 was also like that.


I will advise you to keep playing, from a few levels later onwards u will start enjoying the hell out of it.I still keep replaying it after so any months of completing it.

[patsu]

Also play at a higher difficulty...

[deepbrown]

Also play at a higher difficulty...

And be in awe at how many enemies are onscreen...and how good the enemies look.

[RenegadeRocks]

I had finished it twice on my SDTV, but now that I have a new32"Bravia, I can say it looks much better. I am replaying some levels just to see how it looks! and i am not getting bored! That means the gameplay is fun, I am playing on hard now, and new enemies show up at places that they weren't there on normal, that keeps the surprise element alive and keeps the level from getting boring.

[Cheezdoodles]

Also play at a higher difficulty...

I play all shooters on maximum difficulity, because its not really any challenge whatsover at lower ones..

[patsu]

In that case, play until you get to The Mall and subsequent levels. The latter stages are more interesting. Not sure how the MP play these days since MGS4 came out :-P

[_phil_]

You really should dig that game.

[Cornsnake]

I got resistance, but i havent really played it. Me and a friend tried the coop split screen, we got terribly bored about 20 minutes in, it felt like a bad WW2 clone with monsters. And the graphics where terrible in split screen, and i didn't get any feel for the monster and the weapons.. Haven't really tried playing it since.

I play the co-op often with a friend of mine. Out of all my PS3 games he likes Resistance the most. We must have played it all way through 5 or 6 times already. After the slow start the game offers just about every type of gameplay you find in a modern FPS. All the diversity in enemies and weapons makes the gameplay very varied.

For the difficulty I liked it on Superhuman the most. Hard was a little to easy after playing in on Normal. Superhuman needs to be unlocked by beating on Hard though. But you could also try and find someone else's savegame on the internet.

[TheBlackLodge]

http://www.gamersyde.com/news_6692_en.html

Better quality video footage.

[patsu]

They are the same video. The numbering is messed up. "B-Roll part 2" is the complete clip. Watch this one.

"B-Roll part 1" contains the first part and "B-Roll ending" contains the second part. :lol:

[deepbrown]

http://www.gamersyde.com/news_6692_en.html

Better quality video footage.

OK it looks pretty good. But somethings breaking it for me. This is the 1950's right? Did American's really talk like that in the 1950's? This sounds like modern battle speak, not battle speak from the 1950's. I'm talking about the words they say, the delivery, the accent...sounds very modern.

[RenegadeRocks]

downloading it right now. Pretty big.
@deepbrown: I understand what u r saying, even in the previous vdo I noticed that Hale talks a lot now. I think its good, will make the objectives pretty clear! As for modern speak : will have to check it out. My only worry is that they use natural colours and stay away from Ratchet's pastel shades !

[TheBlackLodge]

Obviously nice to see it in fairly decent quality but sadly for me it's still not wowing me. Oddly, for me anyway, the MP stuff looks way more interesting than the SP stuff.

[RenegadeRocks]

Well, for me the SP stuff is looking more interesting, especially the Grim gameplay, feels like R1 on steroids, but I can't help compare any MP I see with Battlefield:BC, coz I have been enjoying the demo too much.
On the other hand, the Ratchet colour scheme is making it look toony :( , but the iceland Level looks fine, hope they sort it out. Also, the new bulleye also looks very cartoony ! C'mon, guns were nice inR1 and they said they would reverse engineer the Chimeran tech found in the destroyed tower, so a human made Bullseye is expected, but why is it so toony !?!:???: Make it llook deadly insomniac ! Anyway , I don't like the bulleye, give me a sexy Carbine and I amm off to the war !

[deepbrown]

The swimming enemies look cool!

[patsu]

Was swimming in the MGS4 world with the beauties. :roll:
I just found out about the new Leviathan monster in Resistance:
http://www.psu.com/First-look-at-the-Leviathan-in-Resistance-2-News--a0004084-p0.php

According to GamePro, the Leviathan is massive, yet surprisingly fast, and the only way to take him down is to lure him into a booby trapped bridge. Outside of the boss creature, the magazine also revealed that the Titan, Leaper, and Stalker are back.

...complete with screenshots.

[ultragpu]

Was swimming in the MGS4 world with the beauties. :roll:
I just found out about the new Leviathan monster in Resistance:
http://www.psu.com/First-look-at-the-Leviathan-in-Resistance-2-News--a0004084-p0.php



...complete with screenshots.
saw the game pro scans, and BANG! R2 is back! the Leviathan is now my most favourite enemy character, not only it's so detailed but i really loved cloverfield. the game appeared to have better lighting already from the magazine at least.

[RenegadeRocks]

Was swimming in the MGS4 world with the beauties. :roll:
I just found out about the new Leviathan monster in Resistance:
http://www.psu.com/First-look-at-the-Leviathan-in-Resistance-2-News--a0004084-p0.php



...complete with screenshots.

WTF is that ?!?!? Chimera had monstrous machines alright, but they themselves are Godzilla now??:shock: I thought we would be fighting giant machine bosses, but this is Super mutated Chimera !

[patsu]

Chimeras are half machines, half monsters. I think we will see giant monsters (aka Leviathan, as shown above) and giant mecha (Goliath, as shown in R1) in Resistance 2. I think the former is bigger, standing at 300 feet.

[Cornsnake]

I dont think all chimera's were half machines. Like the leapers, howlers, widowmakers and the new grimms. Resistance was already hinting at bigger monsters, I just didn't expect them this big.:grin:

[patsu]

You're right. I was only thinking about the Chimeran hybrids.

Originally, I hoped we get to climb it like facing a Colossus. It looks like we only have to tweak the environment to kill it now. Bummer.

[Cornsnake]

Strange that they already tell us how to kill it. They probably couldn't have made it so that you needed a gun to kill it, because that would make killing other enemies to easy. Maybe they'll do something similar to SotC for one of the other bigger bosses. They did say they were going to prove that you can do bosses in FPS's very well.

[RenegadeRocks]

You're right. I was only thinking about the Chimeran hybrids.

Originally, I hoped we get to climb it like facing a Colossus. It looks like we only have to tweak the environment to kill it now. Bummer.

C'mon, climbing it in First person view would be cumbersom ! I was hoping weakpoints and rocket launchers or calling a mortar strike again and again by radioing its position or something!Make him follow u inside a torn aprt building and shoot rockets on the pillars of the buildings or getting into a goliath and shooting the hell out of it while running around the whole city:twisted:! Lots of methods !

[Archgamer]

Was swimming in the MGS4 world with the beauties. :roll:
I just found out about the new Leviathan monster in Resistance:
http://www.psu.com/First-look-at-the-Leviathan-in-Resistance-2-News--a0004084-p0.php



...complete with screenshots.

Looks like a naked Brumak without the armory on. :lol:

[patsu]

Some people say the creature reminded them of the Cloverfield monsters. If you search YouTube, you'll see people claiming that the Cloverfield monsters are borrowed from RFOM >_<

I think they are just an oversized version of the Chimeran hybrids (6 eyes, biped, slender instead of stout). The Brumak also has 6 eyes but they are more heavily built.

Something tells me we need new monster/enemy concepts. :)
(This is partly why I like the MGS4 enemies by the way)

[RenegadeRocks]

I concur, after Resistance and the R2 concept art that was shown I was hoping new kind of bosses,they had shown huge m/cs in the concepts .I wasn't expecting a creature at all. That was the reason for my reaction in my earlier post.

[patsu]

Internal R2 trailers:
http://www.eurogamer.pt/tv_video.php?playlist_id=11763

5ScU9TaXsP4

...gives more background to the R2 story.
(spoilerific)

[Cornsnake]

Why is something as excellent as that in a poor quality video on youtube, and not in 720p in the PSN store?

Seems like the story is going to be much more important this time around. Rfom always felt like the first chapter's of a book, only introducing the different characters and factions and only hinting at whats to come.

[Shifty Geezer]

Why is something as excellent as that in a poor quality video on youtube, and not in 720p in the PSN store? Because PSN Store is only updated every Thursday?

[ultragpu]

Why is something as excellent as that in a poor quality video on youtube, and not in 720p in the PSN store?

Seems like the story is going to be much more important this time around. Rfom always felt like the first chapter's of a book, only introducing the different characters and factions and only hinting at whats to come.
really dig that trailer! the mood is alot darker and freaky, dont know if everything was all realtime though.
apparently wats been shown in that trailer was indeed the internal trailer back in Dec07, alot has been changed since then and a new trailer with the latest build will be shown on e3 so says Jstevens.

[DrJay24]

The trailer is leaked and Insomniac has asked Eurogamer to remove it.

[FirewalkR]

Why is something as excellent as that in a poor quality video on youtube, and not in 720p in the PSN store?

Because it is a very early version, from 2007 (it's the same R2 trailer Darren Waters from the BBC saw at the same time he saw that "super secret" Sony game that left him speechless). Effects are probably in a rough state compared to what they'll show at E3. I wouldn't be surprised to see a graphically revised version of the trailer, with similar voiceover and some added scenes.

[Cornsnake]

Because it is a very early version, from 2007 (it's the same R2 trailer Darren Waters from the BBC saw at the same time he saw that "super secret" Sony game that left him speechless). Effects are probably in a rough state compared to what they'll show at E3. I wouldn't be surprised to see a graphically revised version of the trailer, with similar voiceover and some added scenes.

Looks like Sony is saving up to make better E3 performance than last year. And LOL at Resistance 2 ever being a "super secret". Strange how things that only a few people have seen are always the best thing ever.

[_phil_]

Looks like Sony is saving up to make better E3 performance than last year. And LOL at Resistance 2 ever being a "super secret". Strange how things that only a few people have seen are always the best thing ever.

That's not what it says :
it's the same R2 trailer Darren Waters from the BBC saw at the same time he saw that "super secret" Sony game that left him speechless

[ultragpu]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=226865&page=126
HOly SH it at the new screenshots! dont know if these are from the latest build but they're definetly looking better than the highly compressed screens and vids we seen last week. i know, aside from the uber AA and higher res, this is what i expect from the finshed game.

[RenegadeRocks]

I like the bleak tone of the trailer. Also, it is pointing more towards Chimera being alien and not a new Bio weapon developed in Russia, it say " You think u created me, but I have been waiting for an eternity" but then it points to them being made too ! :shock:
And yes, I signed up for Special Forces ! ;)

[Cornsnake]

We haven't seen the Chimera talk in Resistance. Which leads me to believe that this might be a Cloven talking.

[RenegadeRocks]

Can somebody elaborate on Cloven?
I used to beleive they were the Black ops soldiers we found lying dead around the place, then there was this Radio transmission during Rooftops which said something like "Grayhead is in the area"(I might be totally wrong, but I remember Grayhead).I thought that it is a third party trying to hunt Nathan.
But I don't really know what Cloven are!:???:

[TheBlackLodge]

From Wiki

The Cloven have not appeared in the story campaign mode for Resistance: Fall of Man but are mentioned in found intelligence reports. However, they are revealed as an unlockable skin in the multiplayer mode. They are bald, pale-skinned humanoids in foreign military uniforms. In intelligence reports and on the official site, they are said to be maniacs who speak Russian, ritualistically mutilate themselves and their victims, and feed on the bodies of their own dead soldiers. They appear to be enemies of both the Chimera and the Euro-American forces, due to their hostility towards both. Despite this, they seem to be somehow connected to the Chimera, but in what way is unknown. In two of the intelligence reports found later on in the game it appears that the British started hunting for groups of Cloven. Also in one of these two it makes reference to a possible leader that may control the Cloven.

Information from Resistance's Map Pack 1 on the Official Website reports on a possible alliance between the Chimera and the Cloven. The Cloven were spotted ransacking Chimeran bases and encountering no resistance. It also reads in an intelligence report that the Cloven purposely lead the Chimera to York where the American soldiers would be landing, indicating York was a trap from the beginning. The equipment being taken by the Cloven is different from what has been seen in their possession so far. US forces speculate that the Cloven are stock piling Chimeran technology to be used against Allied forces. An encounter with the Cloven has shown that they now have weapons far stronger than anything witnessed from either side in combat. Whether the Cloven are in possession of advanced Chimeran technology or simply modifying existing Chimeran technology is unknown.

[RenegadeRocks]

So, the radio transmissions were britons trying to nail Cloven?

On the other hand, listening to the full moon podcast, and they are saying the full game is playable now and they have adisk in which the full game is playable.Also, he says that better shadows and self-shadows are coming in too, its gonna be there and some stuf they are cooking up, which , he says, if it comes through, will be something gamers have never seen before !
Encouraging news, coz if the full game is playable now, that means they have quite some time for the polish to come in !;)

[Cornsnake]

When they said Greyskin during that radio transmission, I tkink they were refering to Hale. They where suppossed to help him without getting noticed.

[RenegadeRocks]

Guys, I signed up on www.getawarjob.com thinking its a beta signup, but as u guys must have seen on the neogaf thread (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=324011) , its an ARG starting up , I guess.

Just wanted to add that I had not seen the Resistance site for UK (http://www.resistancefallofman.com/) before , there seems to be a story for some girl called Anne Greenwood on it, quite a lengthy one too.
Was it there earlier? or is it new info? Is she the same as the girl in ProjectAbraham video (http://projectabraham.com/) ?

EDIT: Watched the full story, Its Old !

[AlStrong]

Mod Note: Shadowing discussion moved to the Tech Forums. Behave!
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=47833

[patsu]

Resistance 2 E3 trailer :D
http://www.gametrailers.com/player/36207.html

36207

My Carbine is ready.

EDIT: I am guessing Kittonwy should be happy.

[RenegadeRocks]

I see self shadowing ! :cool: I love the new look and feel of R2! I will be ready when the Chimera Strike ! :-x

(patsu , you beat me to it!:wink: )

[Neb]

I see self shadowing ! :cool: I love the new look and feel of R2! I will be ready when the Chimera Strike ! :-x

(patsu , you beat me to it!:wink: )

Must have missed it but it has quite a bit of pre-baked shadows. Great artwork there and locations.

[RenegadeRocks]

Must have missed it but it has quite a bit of pre-baked shadows. Great artwork there and locations.

Self shadows can be seen on the new Chimera specie shown for just a second at 01:00 I guess.Pause it and u'll see.Leviathan doesn't seem to have self shadowing.

[DieH@rd]

Trailer looks good. Cant wait to see some gameplay tonight.

[ultragpu]

the ending part of the trailer wowed me the most, and it indeed looked better than the teaser back then.

[Shifty Geezer]

Self shadows can be seen on the new Chimera specie shown for just a second at 01:00 I guess.Pause it and u'll see.Leviathan doesn't seem to have self shadowing.The big critter, the Leviathan?, seems to have baked lighting on his arm. The light moves from the top to the left as the arm is turned! I'm guessing this trailer is a hodge-podge of different build footages.

[Cornsnake]

I like the leaked trailer better for story reasons alone. The fighting a losing war theme is basically Resistance all over again.

[nAo]

The big monster is definitely self shadowed :)

[Arwin]

Resistance 2 looks incredible ... just awesome.