View Full Version : French to lead the way in anti-piracy fight?
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/5f7ada2c-9966-11dc-bb45-0000779fd2ac.html?nclick_check=1
The proposed enforcement body would use information collected by internet service providers on their high -volume users to detect illegal file-sharing. Persistent offenders would be cautioned but could see their internet accounts suspended or terminated if they ignored as few as two warnings.
Whee.
If you have a month, we'll probably know which US companies pushed and bribed them. BSA is a safe bet, as they did in the majority of cases in the past.
The EU is a lot less democratic than you think: most of the actual ruling is done by committees appointed by corporate lobbying. The shining exception is probably the committee ruled by Neelie Smit-Kroes: Microsoft lawsuits and such.
Yes, because Europe never does anything evil and/or stupid without being lead/forced into it by the US. This is an article of faith, with some.
I'm curious about the technical aspects and how reliable they will be. Obviously the ISPs know how much volume is going down the pipe to a given user, but is it going to be smarter than just "if you dl > 25GB/month you must be an evil warez dood"? And how reliable will that be?
I predict they'll manage to shoot the innocent as well. . . .
Here's a bit longer discussion: http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/technology/reuters-piracy.html?ex=1353560400&en=4143202594d95cda&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss Appears that the largest French retailer of music and movies was the leading force here. Makes sense that they would be.
3dilettante
26-Nov-2007, 20:46
They're going to have the ISPs monitor high-bandwidth users with deep packet inspection software.
From the sound of it, heavy net users will have the content of the their data packets analyzed for the presence of copyrighted content.
There are likely various ways of encrypting or camoflaging traffic, and it seems trivial to eventually integrate some kind of control for P2P clients to monitor their bandwidth usage. If a client knows to go quiet before it hits the ISP's monitoring threshold, the only way to catch it is to have the ISP lower the threshold.
This could get messy, even if it proves technically infeasible or ineffective.
From the sound of it, heavy net users will have the content of the their data packets analyzed for the presence of copyrighted content.
What if the "copyrighted material" has been legitimately provided? Are they going to try to keep a registry of "legitimate" download sources? I suppose that's easy enuf if you happen to be Amazon or Apple. . . .but smaller players could easily find themselves being discriminated against, I'd think.
3dilettante
26-Nov-2007, 21:15
That would play well into the hands of the big record companies.
They would rather the only legitimate sources be their own exclusive stores anyway.
Just like how DRM is more about restricting interoperability than it is piracy, the more the labels can restrict how people can use or move their data, the more they are forced to buy the same product over and over at rates the now legally sanctioned dominant players demand.
nutball
27-Nov-2007, 09:39
There are likely various ways of encrypting or camoflaging traffic, and it seems trivial to eventually integrate some kind of control for P2P clients to monitor their bandwidth usage.
You might like to check up on the legal status of encryption in France. At some point in the past using encryption on a computer there was illegal. Maybe that's changed, I dunno.
If France does it, the rest of EU is sure to follow soon. They can kiss my hairy arse as far as I'm concerned.
3dilettante
27-Nov-2007, 14:39
You might like to check up on the legal status of encryption in France. At some point in the past using encryption on a computer there was illegal. Maybe that's changed, I dunno.
That doesn't seem feasible.
I'm assuming shared networks and wireless exist in France, and that they have been known to use computers to contain or pass on financial data.
If not, I think I know where my (and my wireless card) next vacation will be.
Failing that, there are ways beside encryption to disguise data, and the bar need not be very high to defeat centralized systems that can't get bogged down with too much analysis.
nutball
27-Nov-2007, 15:11
That doesn't seem feasible.
Sure. I may be misinterpreting the situation, however a project I was involved in some years ago involved shunting large volumes of data around Europe automatically. We proposed using SSH/SFTP, and were told by our French collaborators that this wasn't possible that was illegal in France. So we ended up using normal FTP and broadcasting passwords across the network in plain text -- this was deemed to be acceptable. Go figure.
Anyway I did a bit of Googling and found a few articles which seem to suggest that the restrictions were lifted some years ago. So I was both right and wrong. Huzzah!
digitalwanderer
27-Nov-2007, 15:49
They can kiss my hairy arse as far as I'm concerned.
My sentiments exactly. :)
My sentiments exactly. :)
If France does it, the rest of EU is sure to follow soon. They can kiss my hairy arse as far as I'm concerned.
Yeah, we won't get to hear your squeal after you wake-up one morning with no internet.
Not me, I'm all original, registered, securom-ed and such. Hell even my Windows is legal (which is next to non-existant around here nowadays). But still they're idiots and it won't change soon.
Yes, because Europe never does anything evil and/or stupid without being lead/forced into it by the US. This is an article of faith, with some.
I'm sorry if it came over like that. I'm well aware that the EU/European countries do their number of evil and stupid things. I even post the ones I think are interesting on this board.
But in the case of laws about copy protection, in the vast majority of cases it has been US companies/corporations/institutions that were the driving force behind it.
Btw, I agree that it simply unenforceable unless you forbid any encryption. And how do you do that?
The crackers always win in the end, simply because it's a lot simpler for them to come up with something new than it is for the ISPs and lawmakers to prevent it. They will always be running after the facts.
Regarding legality of encryption in France: years ago the legal maximum length of encryption keys was 40 bits (yes, this is laughably low). It was then raised to 128 bits, mainly to facilitate growth of electronic commerce. Supposedly, if you are running a business with highly sensitive data that you must protect with stronger encryption, you are supposed to give the key to authorities.
Regarding the agreement that was signed on copyright enforcement (which is not enforceable right now, since it is neither a law, nor a 'decret'), presumably the process would be :
1/ a copyright owner files a procedure for copyright infrigement *supplying enough evidence for its claim* (how evidence is collected is another story, and not addressed by the agreement)
2/ a civil authority validates the procedure
3/ the ISP is contacted and warns the supposed copyright infringer
4/ after a number of warnings, the internet service may be cut, and fines may be pronounced.
If 4/ happens, the infringer may be black listed, making it impossible to get a new Internet connection from another ISP.
Supposed infringer has the possibility to get the case in court and defend himself before a judge.
As a matter of fact, the man who presented the report with this proposal is CEO of the largest music distributor in France. He went on defend himself on this point by saying that his stores also sell a whole lot of consumer electronics, including iPods and such, and that he makes much more money selling iPods that records.
So, it wasn't any US company. My bad.
WhiteCrane
11-Dec-2007, 17:08
Interesting seeing as France came close to passing legislation one year ago that would have nullified the DMCA in their country.
RussSchultz
17-Dec-2007, 22:51
Interesting seeing as France came close to passing legislation one year ago that would have nullified the DMCA in their country.
The DMCA is an American law, and as such it holds no sway in France, since there is no jurisdiction.
If a french citizen, in the jurisdiction of the US, violates the DMCA, he is subject to American law, not French law, so they can't get around that, either.
So I'm not really sure what you're referring to...France can't impact the DMCA in any fashion, as far as I can tell.
Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.
17-Dec-2007, 22:57
But surely US law is trumps everyone else's law (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article2982640.ece)?
3dilettante
17-Dec-2007, 23:23
On a more technical note, it is possible for DMCA-like requirements to filter into other countries from the US through trade agreements.
The reverse is also true, as there is some furor over the WIPO Broadcasting Treaty, which expands broadcaster and webcaster control over content, irrespective of content creator or public domain concerns.
Becoming a signatory to international treaties can prompt such laws to be legislated as part of compliance.
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