View Full Version : UT2K4 Epic overdoing it?
To me, the recent anouncement of ut2k4 seems like Epic burying its greatest (and onliest) franchise. I mean with all the hype about HL2 and DIII Unreal really seems to have lost its appeal as one of the pc's prime fps franchises with the release of a rather medicore u2 and now an anual update of ut, whose main criticism was that i didn't add anything new(mods should still be compatible, so one can propably not expect a radically new game engine). Epic might surprise everyone, but if they just ship some new maps with improved graphics, Unreal will propably become what resident evil/biohazard is to the console world. Up until now, the big pc engine licensors always had at least on heavy game franchise behind their products (renderware being the exception, but they are AFAIK hardly seen in AAA titles (production value wise)), so do you think that to be a good business desicion.
I think we could kinda call this Id syndrome. Remember back in the day, Id revolutionized the industry, both graphics and gameplay, if not games period. Well Epic kinda did that with Unreal, with it's gorgeous environments and Unreal Tournament for it's wicked multiplayer -- lots of game modes et al. I think now they like Id have kinda run out of steam. Though Doom III might rekindle that Id fire, I wonder what it will take for Epic to pick up the pace once more. I don't think Epic is as significant as Id, but it's definately made some good contributions.
UT2k4 will likely expose a bunch of stuff, add more gameplay modes and who knows what, but in terms of the engine, I doubt it's much, except for optimizations. Kinda like Quake 2 and 3.
Unreal 2 was just crap.
Crusher
02-May-2003, 09:46
Did you somehow miss the news about a year ago when it was revealed that they were turning UT into a sports franchise ala Madden Football, and were going to release yearly updated versions?
Did you somehow miss the news about a year ago when it was revealed that they were turning UT into a sports franchise ala Madden Football, and were going to release yearly updated versions?
No I did not. But after the criticism they got from most gaming publications (i do not remember a single review of ut2003 where ,despite high grades, the lack of orginality was not explicitly mentioned) I thought they would kind of re-adjust their strategy. I actually bought both ut2003 und u2 but am quite disappointed with both, and i think most people feel the same. While ut2003 was arguably a decent game things really started to go down with the xbox version. Also sports games have the advantage of resembling anual real world leagues of some kind, something ut does not. Also most of the ut content comes from mods and custom maps anyway...
bystander
02-May-2003, 13:24
Up until now, the big pc engine licensors always had at least on heavy game franchise behind their products (renderware being the exception, but they are AFAIK hardly seen in AAA titles (production value wise)), so do you think that to be a good business desicion.
Don't Grand Theft Auto 3 and Grand Theft Auto Vice City use Renderware?
Yes they do, but mainly because they were primarily developed for psII. If you want to go cross-plattform, renderware is definitifly attractive (Burnout2, GTAIII, etc.), but for PC only fps games most high profile projects tend to go with either quake or unreal (or monolith) technology.
Reverend
02-May-2003, 18:53
To me, the recent anouncement of ut2k4 seems like Epic burying its greatest (and onliest) franchise. I mean with all the hype about HL2 and DIII Unreal really seems to have lost its appeal as one of the pc's prime fps franchises with the release of a rather medicore u2 and now an anual update of ut, whose main criticism was that i didn't add anything new(mods should still be compatible, so one can propably not expect a radically new game engine). Epic might surprise everyone, but if they just ship some new maps with improved graphics, Unreal will propably become what resident evil/biohazard is to the console world. Up until now, the big pc engine licensors always had at least on heavy game franchise behind their products (renderware being the exception, but they are AFAIK hardly seen in AAA titles (production value wise)), so do you think that to be a good business desicion.
First of all, I don't know where and when UT2K4 was announced (link, anyone?).
That said, and as far as I know, The Unreal Engine has had far more licensees that I know than any of the Quake-engine-series (please don't ask me for the numbers!) -- I don't know why this is the case... perhaps it's cheaper, perhaps it simply meets the licensees' needs, etc.
Epic really has no control over how their licensees make a game, except to provide support for the use of their engine -- if their licensees come out with crappy game, I don't think we can blame Epic.
ATM, all I know is that Epic is probably working on something that is kick-ass graphically insofar as their engine goes, being as modular as it is (I think Epic has never had any other name for their engine other than "The Unreal Engine" regardless of the types of "Unreal-engine" games that we see).
I can take a hint -- Tim Sweeney declined an interview with him wrt the latest hardware because he'd find it difficult to talk about the latest hardware without dropping hints about what he's working on, something he prefers not to do, not until 6 months later.
surfhurleydude
03-May-2003, 19:26
What's wrong with having a yearly update of Unreal Tournament with 50 or so new maps to play with? Seems good to me.
Clashman
03-May-2003, 20:19
What's wrong with having a yearly update of Unreal Tournament with 50 or so new maps to play with? Seems good to me.
See Tombraider for an explanation.
Yea but if it is good it is good... what's the point of waiting 3 years at a time for a great PC game? It's all about the moolah anyway. If they bork UT up like they borked U2 then I will not forgive them but if they sort it all out and make great games then I win (as a consumer) and so does Epic (with my money). ;)
i think i remember a interview with an Epig Guy, who said (before UT 2003 launched) that you would be able to download a patch/bonus pack UT2k3 to add the UT 2k4 maps.
(Dont know if its still true)
Rev,
I think part of that is that Epic has been constantly updating their engine more so then ID's Q3(A) version. They have builds every now and then on their sight were licenses can download them. Plus the way their Uscript works cuts some time out of the developement process. The top prize for their upcomming mod constest is an Unreal engine license quoted about $350,000 value. I have no idea if that is cheap or not as far as engine licensing goes...and that was just a quoted figure for this contest so it could be higher/lower in RL.
I really don't think UT2k3 was that much of a letdown. It did not have UT's style but on all it wasn't that bad. I have playd much worse :) Also remember that Digitial Extreme's did more than 75% of the content. Epic only took it back in the last month or so of its developement.
Now remember that Epic started up another company Silicon Studio's. They have some good talent so I can see then doing something in the Unreal universe while Epic's folks work on new engines and support for their growing licenses base.
Now most other games have these add ons for 19.99 MOHAA, BF1942, HL so I am wondering if that could be it too? A slighltly tweaked engine with more new stuff for $19.99?
Of course Steve/Mark have been very vauge on this subject on the Ut mod's mailing list..but they have assured us that codewise us mod developers won't have to worry about it as our code will work if there is something new coming out....
At the NV30 launch...
http://www.guru3d.com/tech/geforcefx/img/Games/Unreal_GFFX_01-450.jpg
Wasn't this demo presented by Tim Sweeney and supposedly based on a "next-gen" Unreal engine?
MuFu.
That's a *really* bad screenshot of the demo we showed at the GeForceFX launch event. Actually, it's not part of the demo though that's being nitpicky. I believe you can find a video of the demo online though it's not really worth looking at compared to the current code & content ;-)
At the NV30 launch...
Wasn't this demo presented by Tim Sweeney and supposedly based on a "next-gen" Unreal engine?
MuFu.
That's a *really* bad screenshot of the demo we showed at the GeForceFX launch event. Actually, it's not part of the demo though that's being nitpicky. I believe you can find a video of the demo online though it's not really worth looking at compared to the current code & content ;-)
Tease :)
Nick[FM]
06-May-2003, 14:25
I believe you can find a video of the demo online though it's not really worth looking at compared to the current code & content ;-)
Well, why not show us your "current code & content" ? :wink: Even a small screenie would be so nice!
Reverend
06-May-2003, 16:40
Well... from the screenshot, what can you guys deduce we can expect from Epic?
Unreal and UT are great games. I've played them many nights into the wee hours. UT2003 was just as fun. I enjoyed it and some of the maps are stunning. Overall a very good upgrade. A little different, but once you get passed the initial couple of hours, it is back to normal and rocks.
Unreal 2 - while I loved it - I really miss the multiplayer aspect. I find that I hate single player games. Regardless how good they look - yet I struggled through Unreal 2. Mainly due to the eye candy.
If they release addons - I'm probably game and will check them out. I dig the engine.
I wish I had the talent to draw some of those maps and animations. Is all that done with Unreal Script - even the animations and flybys?
Now - if only Epic could get Mythic to use the Unreal Engine within DaOC - woot woot - that would rock :)
That's a *really* bad screenshot of the demo we showed at the GeForceFX launch event. Actually, it's not part of the demo though that's being nitpicky. I believe you can find a video of the demo online though it's not really worth looking at compared to the current code & content ;-)
Oh man, I'm so glad I posted that now. Hook, line and sinker... :lol:
MuFu.
Did Epic show anything at E3?
Guess I need to apologize. After seeing some footage and reading some of the E3 articles, I am really looking forward to ut2k4 again. After U2 I was really fearing that one of my favourite PC franchises was going down the hill. Lots of kudos to Epic for seemingly making it happen again...
Some short footage
http://www.e3insider.com/floored/floored02PM.htm
Just click on Unrealism!, it comes right after that RE stuff
I'm just thinking how are they going to get enough players to play the new maps and playmodes? UT2003 multiplayer community isn't the biggest really and what % of players are willing to throw 50 €/$ for an update that could've been released as a bonuspack (it's pretty much for bonuspack, but it could be a cheaper add-on, not a full priced game). I know I'm not willing to pay full-price...
EntombeD
14-Oct-2003, 13:04
As far as I know you can't update ut2k3 to ut2k4 with a patch it's simply to big.....
UT2K3 was a bit of a dissapointment most clan's I know (including my own) never really got into it.......... (partily to blame on the high end hardware u need to play a good game online)
Graphics are very nice but the gameplay isn't as much fun...... and really funny that they made a patch to make it more like UT ....de cummunity isn't as large as it was for ut and I believe it never will.............
That said, and as far as I know, The Unreal Engine has had far more licensees that I know than any of the Quake-engine-series (please don't ask me for the numbers!) -- I don't know why this is the case... perhaps it's cheaper, perhaps it simply meets the licensees' needs, etc.
It is cheaper, but Id engines are (at least the newest ones) quite expensive in relation to other options dev's have. Unreal is getting more expensive all the time though, in relation to id. I think they will cost the same soon.
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