The old and unwieldy GTA4 thread* [Archive]

SugarCoat

02-Aug-2007, 22:21

thats one hell of a delay.

especially given the commitment for a simultaneous release on two very different platforms.

Slap on your tinfoil hats for a moment but i personally think wanted a huge check from Microsoft for an exclusivity window which would give them the excuse that the PS3 version would come later, which is what i'd bet is holding up the launch now. Microsoft didnt bite so now this is the result. I just dont buy any other explanation when we're this close to what was the estimated launch date, and after they released what was included in the collectors edition and all that PR. Not to mention the 1 gameplay video a month thing until release! Obviously they were planning to release something, then magically they tack on another 6+ months of dev time. Sorry i just dont see it.

Todd33

02-Aug-2007, 22:23

So when are we talking now, March-May 08?

Can't say I really care, there are too many holiday releases which doesn't make sense to me. I'd rather have good game coming out all year long.

ErnstH

02-Aug-2007, 22:24

I guess Microsoft's 2008 line-up just became a lot better. ;)

22psi

02-Aug-2007, 22:29

Pretty sure this would mean a delay for the exclusive content for the 360 as well to summer and fall of 08, possibly 09 :wink:

Rangers

02-Aug-2007, 22:34

So when are we talking now, March-May 08?

Can't say I really care, there are too many holiday releases which doesn't make sense to me. I'd rather have good game coming out all year long.

I said this on another forum but I dont expect it until Nov 08.

Why release such a monster game in spring, I think it may hurt sales, and besides I'm sure they can use the extra development time as usual.

Rangers

02-Aug-2007, 22:36

thats one hell of a delay.

Slap on your tinfoil hats for a moment but i personally think wanted a huge check from Microsoft for an exclusivity window which would give them the excuse that the PS3 version would come later, which is what i'd bet is holding up the launch now. Microsoft didnt bite so now this is the result. I just dont buy any other explanation when we're this close to what was the estimated launch date, and after they released what was included in the collectors edition and all that PR. Not to mention the 1 gameplay video a month thing until release! Obviously they were planning to release something.

Personally I think the game is just unfinished, though I'm sure the PS3 is behind the 360 version, I dont think either is ready.

Arwin

02-Aug-2007, 22:36

Surprising! Not strange though if you think of it. They could have made a lot of money even with a rough product, but they also realise that it could damage them beyond repair. And it's not their style. Like for the PSP, where they went far above and beyond what other devs were doing for the platform at the time, both in scope and budget.

However, you know what I find most exciting about the official press release?! This little comment right here:

The top engineers from Sony and Microsoft are working closely with the team in Edinburgh right now, helping us to fully leverage the power of both platforms.

Now THAT is exciting! :P

SugarCoat

02-Aug-2007, 22:46

Personally I think the game is just unfinished, though I'm sure the PS3 is behind the 360 version, I dont think either is ready.

they were prepping for a launch, i seriously doubt they didnt know where they were at until now. Adding on 6 months or more of time to development isnt exactly a small amount.

with the amount of problems Take 2 has been having for the last year i seriously think that if they thought they could weasel a hefty exclusivity contract they'd absolutly attempt it.

bobthebub

02-Aug-2007, 22:51

However, you know what I find most exciting about the official press release?! This little comment right here:

The top engineers from Sony and Microsoft are working closely with the team in Edinburgh right now, helping us to fully leverage the power of both platforms.

Now THAT is exciting! :P

Oh dear, Edinburgh festival is about to start - add 3 weeks to the projected finish date!

scooby_dooby

02-Aug-2007, 22:57

For fawk sakes. :evil:

I'm getting REALLY sick of next gen delays. Every game seems to get delayed, it's become a trend on 95% of titles and it's just annoying as hell.

infinity4

02-Aug-2007, 23:01

good for me as i am looking to buy a system when i become undergraduate :twisted:

and if it is for boost in gameplay quality of the game, then it is very justifiable. but it seems it is due to technical reasons.

does this mean downloadable content is delayed?

DJ12

02-Aug-2007, 23:36

Hands up who didn't see this one coming.

I knew it was going to be delayed when they announced to the day when they were going to release it:lol:

Tap In

03-Aug-2007, 01:00

good... release the game when it's done... of course there's no way they would have delayed one version and released another so they may be playing catch up. also it was mentioned elsewhere that they today also said that they would prefer that 2008 will have a higher number of installed consoles as well for launch.

Not to mention, by then, 360 should be in full on price drop mode ... maybe even $229/$299/$399?

expletive

03-Aug-2007, 02:45

sevanig

03-Aug-2007, 03:19

That sucks, I dunno if it has anything to do with getting the game to run on the hdd'less 360 Core version, but it still sucks...

Also now it will go against MGS4 for sales, poor MGS4...
Last time when MGS3 went against GTA they didn't sell so well
sevanig is online now Report Post

Fu3lFr3nzy

03-Aug-2007, 03:22

I just woke up to this news, and I was like "wtf?!?! :shock: :mad: "

Yeah, quite a bummer, though luckily ALOT of great titles are coming out this year to fill the void till GTAIV arrives :grin:

Good thing Peter Moore aint a MS employee anymore eh? :lol: *points to his E3 comment*

RobertR1

03-Aug-2007, 04:18

No worries to me. More time for Mass Effect, CoD4 and maybe Assassin's Creed (if it's any good).

Rangers

03-Aug-2007, 05:04

Xenus

03-Aug-2007, 05:22

Yeah but do to the delay Microsoft might lose that advantage. Letting the PS3 version catch up and be launched at roughly the same time.

rabidrabbit

03-Aug-2007, 05:40

I think the delay is only good for both Sony and Microsoft.

Microsoft needs to get rid of the "red ring of death" issue and clean up xbox360's image. This will take more than the months leading into GTA4 release and Xmas sales. Had the GTA4 been released this fall, when the unreliability issues might be hurting sales considerably, releasing a game that's expected to be a system seller might not have had the desired impact.

Sony has the image of an expensive console to get rid of.

Bot have a very strong line-up of games for this fall and Christmas season.
They both already have almost too many great games and big names, especially new franchises they hope to become "the next GTA", to be released. GTA4 would only hurt their sales and vice versa.

I believe it was a marketing reason as much as technical reasons the game was delayed. Maybe even more so.

So, the delay was not good only for Sony and MS, but for the whole industry.

xmu

03-Aug-2007, 05:52

Hands up who didn't see this one coming.

I knew it was going to be delayed when they announced to the day when they were going to release it:lol:

All GTA3-derivatives were delayed by two weeks.. every single one of them I think. This time they just upped the ante :)

-tkf-

03-Aug-2007, 07:20

Very good news, i think the trailers exposed a game that had to many framerate issues.

And i guess Sony must be jumping up and down with joy, i know a few people that have GTA4 as their first Console purchase in this generation. The PS3 price would have turned many of them towards the XBOX 360. If Sony can manage to reduce the price on the PS3 before GTA4 it will really help them.

But as someone mentioned, Spring release really takes the hot air out of this as a system seller.

SugarCoat

03-Aug-2007, 07:23

Very good news, i think the trailers exposed a game that had to many framerate issues.

I never saw a framerate issue and a few people keep bringing it up. People do realize that bit rate/codec used effects how smooth a video looks right? What i saw so far was smooth as silk.

-tkf-

03-Aug-2007, 07:44

I never saw a framerate issue and a few people keep bringing it up. People do realize that bit rate/codec used effects how smooth a video looks right? What i saw so far was smooth as silk.

Ehmm i saw both trailers on the PS3, i find it hard to believe that they should be special in anyway compared to other games that obviously doesnÂ´t have framerate issues. And i guess iÂ´m not the only one that thinks so.

http://www.shacknews.com/featuredarticle.x?id=428

The second point was the slightly choppy framerate. It never got to the point where it dipped into the single digits or became a slideshow--certainly it never seemed like it would interfere with gameplay--but the on-screen action was a little sluggish. This can actually be briefly glimpsed in the trailers, such as when the camera pans around Niko at the end of the second teaser.

That is a very diplomatic way of putting it.

slider

03-Aug-2007, 16:22

22psi

03-Aug-2007, 16:28

I just think the game is too huge, intricate, and vast and R* maybe overshot the timeline. This is the main reason for the delay, I am sure making the game run great on both the PS3 and 360 added to this delay somewhat as well.

AzBat

03-Aug-2007, 16:33

blakjedi

03-Aug-2007, 16:33

RancidLunchmeat

03-Aug-2007, 16:37

digitalwanderer

03-Aug-2007, 16:48

Out of curiousity, is anyone really surprised by this? Delays seem much more the norm compared to games shipping on time anyways, double-so with AAA titles.

Rangers

03-Aug-2007, 17:21

I don't see how this can be spun to be anything other than horrible news for MS.

GTAIV was a huge part of their holiday lineup, and it was that lineup that they expected to propel 360 sales along with the $50 price drop.

Remove the strength of the lineup and the size of the price drop becomes a factor.

In short, without GTAIV MS may no longer move the number of 360s they had projected without sacrificing another price cut.

How is it any more horrible news for MS than Sony? That's bizzare reasoning..

One could also state that 360 has Halo 3 (Plus Mass Effect and Bioshock) to make up for this, while PS3 does not have a title that will be such a big seller.

The only reasoning I've heard on this that makes good sense is if Sony can get PS3 to 399 by the time GTA releases, and that MS is somehow wanting to convert 360 to a mass market machine with GTAIV and lost their chance..

But, if PS3 cant get down to 399 or 499 by the time GTA releases, isn't that totally moot? And how is even 399 a mass market price point for PS3 if it's not for 360? The logic has a lot of holes in it..

Also, it's rumored MS will be doing another price cut in November regardless in conjunction with 65nm. Has nothing to do with no GTAIV.

Rangers

03-Aug-2007, 17:24

Out of curiousity, is anyone really surprised by this? Delays seem much more the norm compared to games shipping on time anyways, double-so with AAA titles.

Mass Effect, Assasins Creed, Halo 3, Heavenly Sword..are examples of triple AAA titles shipping on time.

It's not really a matter of "on time" it's a matter of feel..any of the above titles could get delayed, but some are almost unfathomably unlikely to. Halo 3, for example, is rock solid set in stone. Why? Just because, a hundred reasons. Feel. We've heard the game has been done for many months. We have a solid highly hyped release date. We've seen a lot of the game plus a Beta. There's no way Halo 3 is getting delayed.

So basically it just comes down to whether you thought the game would make it's date, and there was no indication GTA wouldn't, so yeah it is a surprise.

DJ12

03-Aug-2007, 17:33

Heavenly Sword was supposed to be released last year originally, Assassins Creed in January :lol:

morlock

03-Aug-2007, 17:35

Mass Effect, Assasins Creed, Halo 3, Heavenly Sword..are examples of triple AAA titles shipping on time.

Was'nt Mass Effect supposed to be released last christmas, and HS with the Euro-launch, or about?

After the negative E3 impressions with bad framerate, painfully pop-ups of textures and objects and other general unpolished gameplay I was totally expecting a delay. But not 6 months! :sad:

The good things is that Sony has deployed SPU-coders to help save the day and MS some help too so it should be working out nicely on both platforms.

rbushner

03-Aug-2007, 17:35

Mass Effect, Assasins Creed, Halo 3, Heavenly Sword..are examples of triple AAA titles shipping on time.

From what has been seen, I wouldn't be surprised to see Assassin's Creed slip again. It looked really rough at E3.

I'd prefer delays to rushed games. I can't help but wonder how much better some games would be if they 'baked' a bit longer.

iceberg187

03-Aug-2007, 17:37

Sheesh. Has anyone else seen this?

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=27326

Michael Pachter theorising on the reason for the delay. (In a nutshell: PS3 development causing headaches, contractual obligations to Sony mean the 360 version cannot be released before the PS3...)

It didn't strike me as very likely but I'm happy to hear other views.

Look at open world games this generation

Oblivion, a year later on PS3, still can't fit all DLC in ram / Fine on 360
Crackdown / Fine on 360
Mercenaries 2: PS3 lead sku, only video of it being played was at GDC on the 360 /
Saint's Row, quietly swept under the rug by THQ with nary a PS3 shot. / Fine on 360
Burnout Paradise, PS3 lead sku, delayed twice already into 2008.
Two Worlds, Only version shown playable is 360, no PS3 version footage available

I believe this.

Cheezdoodles

03-Aug-2007, 17:44

Tough to say who this benefits.

On one hand, MS now has an extremely solid holiday lineup, littered with exclusive titles, most AAA but can't play the "Halo 3 and GTA4: only on 360" card this holiday season. However they can play it next year. Also, apparently the first excuslive episodes will still be ready by the time of release (or thereabouts) so the 360 version will be superior almost immediately, rather than 6 months later (all else being equal of course). Those who are going to buy a PS3 anyway, now have one less reason to buy one this year, and may now wait for further price relief or switch to 360.

Ont he other, Sony now has a perfect storm of their own next year with the release of MGS and GTA4 and can play their own version of "MGS and GTA: only on PS3" 2Q of next year. They may be able to have another relevant price drop before then so the disparity of between the cost for entry for GTA on both platforms might not be as large as it would have this year.

Personally i do think its a bit worse for PS3 since they just need to start stockpiling some reasons for the Sony faithful to jump on board. Going into this holiday without GTA, even multiplatform, hurts them because it keeps existing PS2 owners on the sidelines. Without this, there isnt a lot of familiar content to bring those existing owners over.

I would look at it differently. This year, the most appealing title for potential PS3 buyers where GTA4. GTA4 was\is pretty much the only game coming this year that would steal Halo 3 thunder.

(Yes, before 10 fanboys jump in and tell me about uncharted and HS and whatever, im aware of those titles, but those are brand new IP's, they just don't have enough hype compared to a game like GTA4. )

What will Sony show on commercials this holiday? What? HS? Uncharted? Home?
Sony has nothing that big in terms of hype, imo.
(Disclaimer: Im not saying PS3's offerings suck, im talking about hype).

The marketing budget for Halo3 is probably around $50 million, because GTA is now gone, this year will be all about Halo.

Todd33

03-Aug-2007, 17:46

One could also state that 360 has Halo 3 (Plus Mass Effect and Bioshock) to make up for this, while PS3 does not have a title that will be such a big seller.

Well it may not have a Halo 3 franchise, but how many Halo fans don't already have a 360? Not to mention many console gamers hate FPS/PC type games. Now look at the 100 million PS2 owners who played Naughty Dog or Insomniac games, how many have a Ps3?

But, if PS3 cant get down to 399 or 499 by the time GTA releases, isn't that totally moot? And how is even 399 a mass market price point for PS3 if it's not for 360? The logic has a lot of holes in it..

You are thinking of gamers as one large pool to sell to, but there are many Playstation loyalist who have yet to go next gen, so a $400 Ps3 is more appealing to them than a $300 360.

Also, it's rumored MS will be doing another price cut in November regardless in conjunction with 65nm. Has nothing to do with no GTAIV.

You think the PS3 is going to get cut to $499 (it's current price) yet the 360 is going to get a rumored second cut and it hasn't had the rumored first one yet? As you said "The logic has a lot of holes in it"...

I think the GTA4 delay hurts both almost equally, but your spin is palpable.

digitalwanderer

03-Aug-2007, 18:03

Mass Effect, Assasins Creed, Halo 3, Heavenly Sword..are examples of triple AAA titles shipping on time.
I think a few of those have already been "rescheduled", and tell me about them after they hit their shipping dates. (No offense Deano. ;) )

Cheezdoodles

03-Aug-2007, 18:13

Well it may not have a Halo 3 franchise, but how many Halo fans don't already have a 360? Not to mention many console gamers hate FPS/PC type games.
Now look at the 100 million PS2 owners who played Naughty Dog or Insomniac games, how many have a Ps3?

Dont try to play this card.

Really? That many hate FPS games?

If FPS games where so hated, why does 4 generic shooters from EA, MoH Frontline and MoH Rising sun, James Bond Nightfire and James Bond: Agent Under Fire outsell ALL NAUGHTY DOG AND INSOMNIAC PS2 games?

Man, PS2 owners must REALLY hate FPS games.

Do you really think the hype from Uncharted, a new IP, from a company which last 3 titles didn't manage to outsell a generic EA james bond port on the PS2, is going to make a massive surge of people running to buy PS3's??

Besides, does the X360 only offer a FPS game this fall? They offer a vast variety of different games, from big developers like Bizarre Creations (PGR4), Bioware (Mass Effect) and Irrational games (bioshock), all developers which are atleast as proven as the ones you mention, in terms of sales(relative to platform) and recognition.

You see todd, your forgetting one thing. The ORIGINIAL PS2 buyers, may have been against FPS and just about J-RPGS and stuff like that. However, once that PS2 started going down in price, and casuals started buying it, those views on FPS games got abolished. The PS2 userbase behavior towards what games they buy would pretty much be in perfect correlation with the average casual.

Now look at the 100 million PS2 owners who played Naughty Dog or Insomniac games, how many have a Ps3?

Actually, not one title from either developer sold more than 4-5 million. Since all of the titles are sequels which have all shown declines in terms of sales, the actual amount of people who bought Naughty dog or Insomniac games last gen is at best 15million.

Tap In

03-Aug-2007, 18:16

That's messed up. Either they both ship at the same or they don't ship at all?

Here come the conspiracy theories. :roll:

Tommy McClain

well I assumed the same thing in my post above... I really thought this was common knowledge.

the way this whole thing went down and as big a franchise that this is, I assumed that neither would be allowed to ship before the other i.e. my post stating that one system was holding it up.

scooby_dooby

03-Aug-2007, 18:17

digitalwanderer

03-Aug-2007, 18:21

Does it matter? I mean the Wii is gonna just blow them both so out of the water this holiday season. :|

*me runs away!!!

slider

03-Aug-2007, 18:22

Look at open world games this generation

Oblivion, a year later on PS3, still can't fit all DLC in ram / Fine on 360
Crackdown / Fine on 360
Mercenaries 2: PS3 lead sku, only video of it being played was at GDC on the 360 /
Saint's Row, quietly swept under the rug by THQ with nary a PS3 shot. / Fine on 360
Burnout Paradise, PS3 lead sku, delayed twice already into 2008.
Two Worlds, Only version shown playable is 360, no PS3 version footage available

I believe this.

I was referring, in the main, to the contract issue.

Most people seem to know about the relative coding headaches the PS3 presents. But as for analysis? It doesn't strike me as analysis... more like theorising based on very little.

Zassk

03-Aug-2007, 18:23

It's definately a bad thing for MS, as PS3 will now be at a lower price when GTA hits, allowing more GTA fans to buy the PS3 like they would probably prefer.

GTA was particularly important for the 360 in Europe this holiday IMO.

You've got to think that both consoles will be cheaper when GTA finally hits.

As someone said earlier in this thread... what is Sony going to advertise this holiday now? What remaining PS3 title has mainstream brand recognition? This may be disastrous for PS3 holiday sales.

Todd33

03-Aug-2007, 18:26

Sorry to upset you Ostepop, but your logic could be applied equally well to most 360 games. Yes crappy EA games sell, but I doubt they push early adopters to spend $400.

Did System Shock 2 sell better than James Bond? Why should Bioshock help sell 360s then? It's a dumb argument.

There are millions of Playstation fans waiting to buy a PS3, the 17% reduction in price had a huge impact on sales, why is that? Were there any big games released? Yet somehow the release of the next gen Ratchet and Clank (a franchise that has sold 13 million on the PS2) won't help sales? The PS3 doesn't need a single game to push sales, it just need to be more affordable and have content. This holiday has plenty of content without GTA4. You and Rangers can spin all you like by ignoring potential PS3 hits while playing up 360 ones, but it's just silly. Both systems will have plenty of good games this year - enough to sell to their target audiences.

Tap In

03-Aug-2007, 18:27

tough to say who this is "good or bad" for... it is what it is.

I think it can be good for MS in that there are plenty of titles that will carry it through the holidays (and this theory that all of the Halo3 buyers already own 360s must end now as it is incredibly ridiculous :lol:)

I think it's better for the other publishers/devs who had games scheduled for this holiday/fall and I think that with both systems more than likely doing some price adjustments early next year (staying within the same range of each other as right now, no doubt) i think if anything, GTA will help drive systems in an otherwise quiet spring 08.

For Sony, they may or may not have anything AS BIG as GTAIV would have been for them this fall/winter but they are better served by this title IMO waiting until spring and a price drop (for GTA IV to move systems).

Todd33

03-Aug-2007, 18:30

You've got to think that both consoles will be cheaper when GTA finally hits.

As someone said earlier in this thread... what is Sony going to advertise this holiday now? What remaining PS3 title has mainstream brand recognition? This may be disastrous for PS3 holiday sales.

What did the 360 have in 2006? Gears of War, that was new IP, as is Heavenly Sword, Drake's, Haze and Lair. Of course there is UT3 if you want a known name. Adding "Part N" to a movie or game does not make it good, it just spurs first week sales, word of mouth takes over from there.

Cheezdoodles

03-Aug-2007, 18:38

What did the 360 have in 2006? Gears of War, that was new IP, as is Heavenly Sword, Drake's, Haze and Lair. Of course there is UT3 if you want a known name. Adding "Part N" to a movie or game does not make it good, it just spurs first week sales, word of mouth takes over from there.

The X360 didn't need anything last holiday, it just needed to have a ton of good games vs the 1 and a half good game on the PS3.

And i know your not possibly comparing the amount of hype and advertising Gears got vs any of those titles.

Oh and btw, your in no position to talk about my posting history, im not the guy had a red square below my name when rep was still in.

assen

03-Aug-2007, 19:29

Sheesh. Has anyone else seen this?

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=27326
... Pachter Pachter Pachter ...
It didn't strike me as very likely but I'm happy to hear other views.

Not very likely? You haven't heard about a game that looks worse on the PS3 (Spider-Man 3) or that is half the framerate on the PS3 (all the football games this year) or is six months late on the PS3 (Rainbow Six: Vegas)? Why does it seem so unlikely that Rockstar are having the same problems with the PS3 that dozens of other developers are having?

And the "non-exclusivity" deal with Sony seems reasonable: Sony may have shied away from paying X mln. to keep GTA4 exclusive, but maybe they paid Y mln. to keep GTA4 from becoming Xbox 360 exclusive (where Y << X).

Now look at the 100 million PS2 owners who played Naughty Dog or Insomniac games

The vast majority of the 100 million PS2 owners
a) bought their PS2 at $200 or below
b) are not "loyalists", but casual gamers with very little brand attraction
c) haven't touched a Naughty Dog or an Insomniac game, as evidenced by the sales numbers of these games.

...the next gen Ratchet and Clank (a franchise that has sold 13 million on the PS2)

It's silly to speak of the "franchise that has sold 13 million" - it's much more meaningful to speak about the highest-grossing game of the franchise. By that measure, the "GTA franchise" has sold maybe 100 million, and the "Mario franchise" maybe 200 or 300.

Personally, I can't decide who benefits most from the GTA4 delay. (Well, outside of Nintendo, who will snatch up an additional couple of million PS2-owning casual-gaming cheapskates this Christmas.)

Pluses for Sony:
- probably the PS3 version will get in a better shape and be more comparable to the 360 version after six more months of tweaking
- after proportional pricecuts, the absolute difference in the systems' prices will be less in the spring

Minuses for Sony:
- it will steal away from MGS4's thunder, which is much more of a "their" franchise, after the repeated oaths of fealty by Kojima
- another slap in the face IF the Pachter story turns out to be true (I'm inclined to believe it for now)
- less PS3s sold this Xmas period

Pluses for Microsoft:
- more breathing room for the first- and second-party titles this fall, which are more profitable
- a good chance to mount a "we have the better GTA4" campaign against the MGS4 hype

Minuses for Microsoft:
- less 360s sold this Xmas period
- the marketing strategy for the DLC will have to be re-thought - if they were scheduled to hit e.g. 3 and 9 months after the release, and they are delayed proportionately, the second one will fall in the Xmas 2008 period... wait, that would be a plus?

Pluses for third-party publishers:
- everyone with a shooter/violence game scheduled for Xmas 2007 gets to sell more

Minuses for third-party publishers:
- everyone with a shooter/violence game scheduled for H1 2008 gets to sell less
- the uptake of next-gen consoles is slowed down a bit, since less PS3 and 360s get sold this Xmas period.

RancidLunchmeat

03-Aug-2007, 19:31

The difference is that people like Todd seem to believe that casual gamers are actually 'Playstation fans'.

Which I find humorous. Because I don't know any casual gamer that cares about who makes their console.

Sure, the PS3 will get some bonus points from some people because they are familiar with it and the controls from having a PS2. But most people just care about the price, and that it has the games that they want to play.

Todd, do you believe all those 'Playstation fans' would still buy a playstation if GTAIV wasn't on the system at all?

I personally know a number of people (including myself) that bought a PS2 for the sole purpose of playing GTAIII. I didn't want to wait to play it on the Xbox. I bought a PS2 just to play it.

Had that game been released on the Xbox at the same time, I wouldn't have purchased a PS2.

Had I not had an Xbox already and the game was released for both the Xbox and PS2 at the same time, but the Xbox was significantly cheaper, I would have purchased an Xbox to play GTAIII.

This isn't complicated, and I really can't believe how many people let their emotions cloud an issue.

The majority of people are fans of GAMES. Not fans of GAMING SYSTEMS.

There were going to be X number of people who wanted to play GTAIV this holiday season who can't afford a PS3, but can afford a 360.

With GTAIV being delayed, those people won't buy a 360 this holiday. And by the time GTAIV does get released, the PS3 might be affordable to them. Or it might have its library strengthened by the release of other games that are attractive.

I guess I don't see the downside for Sony in this delay. I don't think GTAIV would sell a significant amount of PS3s this holiday season anyway, the system itself is still too expensive and people (like Todd) who want a PS3 because they want a PS3 (rather than wanting to play a specific game), are still going to buy one anyway.

slider

03-Aug-2007, 19:49

Not very likely? You haven't heard about a game that looks worse on the PS3 (Spider-Man 3) or that is half the framerate on the PS3 (all the football games this year) or is six months late on the PS3 (Rainbow Six: Vegas)? Why does it seem so unlikely that Rockstar are having the same problems with the PS3 that dozens of other developers are having?

And the "non-exclusivity" deal with Sony seems reasonable: Sony may have shied away from paying X mln. to keep GTA4 exclusive, but maybe they paid Y mln. to keep GTA4 from becoming Xbox 360 exclusive (where Y << X).

As I said in a previous post I was talking about the release exclusivity deal. I wasn't making a case for the PS3 being easy to code for. Or as easy as the 360. Or that anyone or any report that suggests it is a blinkered ******. God forbid - I try to avoid posts that'll provoke a strong response.

I don't see why Rockstar would agree to not release on the 360 if they're having problems with coding for Sony's machine. Of course the first official announcements were about a simultaneous release. Who knows the complications of contract negotiations. But a deal where Rockstar is talking with MS & Sony to strike a simultaneous release is a bit... I dunno, odd? For a start what would MS or Sony have to really gain from it? MS lobby for exclusivity and Sony counter offer with...
Sony: "No, don't do it!"
R*: "Why, what are you offering?"
Sony: "Er, nothing as strong but can we at least have a simultaneous release?"
I dunno - I'm not explaining it very well. Like I said it strikes me as odd, and that's the best way I can explain it, and you've probably got a better idea on these sort of contracts than I have.

Finally, I would've thought for such a powerful franchise Rockstar would have some room for maneuver with anyone that wants to play hardball.

22psi

03-Aug-2007, 20:46

Just imagine if one version came out this year and the other next year. :shock:

Arwin

03-Aug-2007, 21:02

So, I'm going to repeat myself, because I think it's necessary. From the official press-release:

The top engineers from Sony and Microsoft are working closely with the team in Edinburgh right now, helping us to fully leverage the power of both platforms.

Mrakor

03-Aug-2007, 21:05

So, I'm going to repeat myself, because I think it's necessary. From the official press-release:This is doesn't mean, that MS and sony working with each other, this is about and sony and MS working with the team in Edinburgh. :)

If it's what you're implying.

Arwin

03-Aug-2007, 21:07

This is doesn't mean, that MS and sony working with each other, this is about and sony and MS working with the team in Edinburgh. :)

If it's what you're implying.

Obviously not. I'm implying that Rockstar needs help with both platforms, and that it isn't the one or the other that is delaying the game's release, as a lot of people are suggesting (including analysts who should know better).

scooby_dooby

03-Aug-2007, 21:09

There was little doubt in my mind that the PS3 version was going to slip.

I didn't expect them both to be delayed though, as Rockstar has been showing quite a few video's and demo's on the 360.

We'll never really know why it was delayed, but this theory about a contract with Sony doesn't seem too far fetched.

Obviously not. I'm implying that Rockstar needs help with both platforms, and that it isn't the one or the other that is delaying the game's release, as a lot of people are suggesting (including analysts who should know better).

And you're basing this on the official PR? Sorry, but means next to nothing to me. What do you expect them to say? "PS3 is holding us back??"

Todd33

03-Aug-2007, 21:22

We'll never really know why it was delayed, but this theory about a contract with Sony doesn't seem too far fetched.

...

And you're basing this on the official PR? Sorry, but means next to nothing to me. What do you expect them to say? "PS3 is holding us back??"

The irony of these two back to back sentences made me laugh out loud, thanks scoob. :smile:

Tap In

03-Aug-2007, 21:24

And you're basing this on the official PR? Sorry, but means next to nothing to me. What do you expect them to say? "PS3 is holding us back??"

exactly

the fact that the PS3 version has even yet to see the light of day (not even at E3) and only 360 media should be a pretty big clue right there for those playing along at home.

It's no secret that PS3 is harder to leverage than 360 at the moment.

scooby_dooby

03-Aug-2007, 21:33

The irony of these two back to back sentences made me laugh out loud, thanks scoob. :smile:

What irony?

Speculation from an analyst like Pachter means a little more to me than a press release. Pachter's worth a grain of salt, the PR, not even worth that much.

And I never said it was true, simple that it wasn't too far fetched. Based mainly on the fact we have still to this day, never seen the game running on a PS3. And Rockstar and Sony have a longstanding relationship, and numerous contracts together over the last 8 years.

Todd33

03-Aug-2007, 21:50

What irony?

Speculation from an analyst like Pachter means a little more to me than a press release. Pachter's worth a grain of salt, the PR, not even worth that much.

And I never said it was true, simple that it wasn't too far fetched. Based mainly on the fact we have still to this day, never seen the game running on a PS3. And Rockstar and Sony have a longstanding relationship, and numerous contracts together over the last 8 years.

You simply like one rumor, the anti-Sony one, over the others and have the gall to lecture Arwin. Classic.

Tap In

03-Aug-2007, 21:53

You simply like one rumor, the anti-Sony one, over the others and have the gall to lecture Arwin. Classic.

haha

the distinction is that dj's "rumor" that MS held it up due to a "super-secret compression :cool::razz:" method to overcome the DVD is akin to saying that R*'s Lead was was abducted by aliens, hence the delay. :lol: :razz:

edit: that's not to say that compression isn't an issue just that the rumor was written in ridiculous fanboy-speak.

Cheezdoodles

03-Aug-2007, 22:03

. But a deal where Rockstar is talking with MS & Sony to strike a simultaneous release is a bit... I dunno, odd? For a start what would MS or Sony have to really gain from it?

MS would win the console war vs the PS3 if GTA4 released in september no the X360 and on the PS3 in april. Well, maybe not the entire war, but it would win a lot.

Its not like Sony\MS has to pay R* to give them an incentive to hold out for a simultaneous release, they can just give them a discount on game licencing. Shave of 2-3 bucks on the licence, and thats an easy $10 mill saved for R*.

There are also several reason for why R* would want to delay both titles even if one was more ahead of the other (regardless of financial subsidies from [Console Manufacturer]), if one platform is delayed, you have to spend more money on advertising (or if you choose not to spend more, your loosing the effect that marketing during a simulataneous release would have given you)

Todd33

03-Aug-2007, 22:18

haha

the distinction is that dj's "rumor" that MS held it up due to a "super-secret compression :cool::razz:" method to overcome the DVD is akin to saying that R*'s Lead was was abducted by aliens, hence the delay. :lol: :razz:

edit: that's not to say that compression isn't an issue just that the rumor was written in ridiculous fanboy-speak.

Maybe you should read the thread before hitting reply and quoting me, I never mentioned nor alluded to some compression theory.

-tkf-

03-Aug-2007, 22:52

And you're basing this on the official PR? Sorry, but means next to nothing to me. What do you expect them to say? "PS3 is holding us back??"

What PRÂ´s do we believe, those that fit our needs or those that donÂ´t ?

We have seen 2 these past few days, and it looks like those that favor Sony arenÂ´t really worth beliving while those that favor Microsoft seems legit..

IÂ´m so surprised :-)

Cheezdoodles

03-Aug-2007, 22:59

What PRÂ´s do we believe, those that fit our needs or those that donÂ´t ?

We have seen 2 these past few days, and it looks like those that favor Sony arenÂ´t really worth beliving while those that favor Microsoft seems legit..

IÂ´m so surprised :-)

What have you seen the 2 past days that favor Sony?

assen

03-Aug-2007, 23:03

What have you seen the 2 past days that favor Sony?

The rumor that the problem with GTA4 is that it doesn't fit on a DVD9 and some kind of advanced compression tech is expected to be supplied by Microsoft.

What I find implausible in it? This supposed advanced compression tech is either ready and working, in which case it can probably be applied to the game assets for maybe a month (if everything needs to be manually reviewed to set a compression level per-asset), which would not be a reason for a 6-month delay, OR it must be still in the labs - in which case it would be unclear if it would EVER do the job, even after a 6-month delay.

Besides, Rockstar are experienced console developers - people who know how to work on a memory/disc budget. They knew they were targeting the 360 all the time. There's no way a team such as this would suddenly go "oops??? we overshot, the game is 18 Gigs now, call the MS compression ninjas".

SugarCoat

03-Aug-2007, 23:06

The rumor that the problem with GTA4 is that it doesn't fit on a DVD9 and some kind of advanced compression tech is expected to be supplied by Microsoft.

you dont think they'll use the tech captured from the crashed alien ships do you? I thought they'd save that until at least twenty twelve.

xmu

03-Aug-2007, 23:12

The rumor that the problem with GTA4 is that it doesn't fit on a DVD9 and some kind of advanced compression tech is expected to be supplied by Microsoft.

You mean "some kind of MAGICAL compression tech"? ;-)

I seriously doubt that's the case, and even if it isn't, there has to be shitloads you can cut from. Heck, you could even go as far as to strip out some of the side quest missions of which there are surely plenty of, and save on dialogue and whatnot.

Despite what the press release says, I'm sure it's got SOMETHING to do with the PS3 version. But then again I'm just as sure that's only half the truth. From what I've heard and read in various articles, the game was far from finished in July. For such an ambitious game I wouldn't be too surprised if they've just overestimated themselves, and they've reached a point where there's sort of no turning back - there's just SO much in the game that it'll take ages just to polish everything.

Oh well, that's just my n cents.

Cheezdoodles

03-Aug-2007, 23:35

The rumor that the problem with GTA4 is that it doesn't fit on a DVD9 and some kind of advanced compression tech is expected to be supplied by Microsoft.

What I find implausible in it? This supposed advanced compression tech is either ready and working, in which case it can probably be applied to the game assets for maybe a month (if everything needs to be manually reviewed to set a compression level per-asset), which would not be a reason for a 6-month delay, OR it must be still in the labs - in which case it would be unclear if it would EVER do the job, even after a 6-month delay.

Besides, Rockstar are experienced console developers - people who know how to work on a memory/disc budget. They knew they were targeting the 360 all the time. There's no way a team such as this would suddenly go "oops??? we overshot, the game is 18 Gigs now, call the MS compression ninjas".

And according to tkf and todd this is just as plausible as the PS3 being behind development (when all that has been shown is X360 builds).

Apparently only reason why we believe the analyst over the Anti-MS blogger, is because we like the analysts theory better.

It has nothing to do with the whole, "alien technology" compression method that MS supposedly has. Ironically, this alien technology would be a much bigger dent into the whole PS3 vs X360 war rather than the real news (since it would negate bluray)

scooby_dooby

04-Aug-2007, 00:02

You simply like one rumor, the anti-Sony one, over the others and have the gall to lecture Arwin. Classic.

Oh give me a break toddster.

First of all, PR is not a 'rumour', it's PR. And I'm not even aware what others you're referring too.

My comment to Arwin was with regards to PR, and how it is worthless. I never made any comments about which rumour's he chooses to believe, simply that holding up a PR statement as proof of something is ridiculous.

These are two completely different issues, maybe you need to think a little longer before you post.

scooby_dooby

04-Aug-2007, 00:05

What PRÂ´s do we believe, those that fit our needs or those that donÂ´t ?

What need would that be? I'm not stuck in a stupid console war mentality look most of you seem to be. I have no need to defend/attack a piece of plastic.

I simply commented on the fact that I have been wondering for sometime about the state of the PS3 version of GTA, given that we have not seen it. And have stated a few times I think it may be delayed, now it has been.

So, I'm not surprised that it's being rumoured as the cause of delay, that goes along with what my gut feeling has been for a while.

Arwin

04-Aug-2007, 00:07

What irony?

Speculation from an analyst like Pachter means a little more to me than a press release. Pachter's worth a grain of salt, the PR, not even worth that much.

You're kidding me, right? Now all of a sudden Pachter's worth a grain of salt? :roll:

And I never said it was true, simple that it wasn't too far fetched. Based mainly on the fact we have still to this day, never seen the game running on a PS3. And Rockstar and Sony have a longstanding relationship, and numerous contracts together over the last 8 years.

Meaning what exactly? That the 360 was the lead platform? Do you realise how big the delay even is? There are thousands of good reasons for a delay, and seriously, if any of those were related to the PS3 exclusively, it would be the smallish installbase as much as anything else.

Instead, though, they have indicated that they want this to be the best in the series, something that stands out, and it's going to be their last GTA. And from what I've seen so far, and given the size of the game as it is typically, and thinking of the attention that even the PSP version got, then no, I don't think the delay is surprising.

What is surprising is the silliness of people at times. :roll:

PSman

04-Aug-2007, 05:50

http://www.joystiq.com/2007/05/02/xbox-360-cant-handle-all-of-gta-iv/

Apparently the lack of a built-in Blu-ray or HD-DVD drive in the Xbox 360 means that the year and a half old console is already starting to feel growing pains. In an interview with Official PlayStation Magazine, Rockstar creative VP Dan Houser was asked, "On PS3 you've got a guarantee that every machine is going to have a hard-drive and, with Blu-ray, you've got plenty of storage, whereas on Xbox 360 there's no guarantee of a hard-drive and you're working with the DVD format. Does that create limitations?" His answer? "Yep."

Sorry if this have beedn postted before.

My guess, the reason for the delay is because, they have to take the time to try to crammed everything into the smaller DVDs. This can be quiet a pain for them.

SugarCoat

04-Aug-2007, 06:14

And you're wrong. :lol:

In an interview with Xbox Assimilation Magazine a rockstar dev, who chose to remain nameless, working on the PS3 version had this to say "Honestly I can't see how we've gotten anything done on this thing. Without the Sony support people i dont think we'd be able to program our way out of a paper bag with the development tools Sony has supplied."

see!

PSman

04-Aug-2007, 06:15

And you're wrong. :lol:

Ok, correct me then, I'm all ear:smile:

I'm not saying it's 100% fact. I'm just saying that, it is possible that, the lack of standard HDD in the 360 and the limited DVD format could cause the delay, because the developer might have to take their time to work around those limitation. I'm not bashing the 360, I'm just stating the possibilities

SugarCoat

04-Aug-2007, 06:19

I'm afraid i cannot, your illness....is terminal. :cry:

iceberg187

04-Aug-2007, 06:28

Ok, correct me then, I'm all ear:smile:

I'm not saying it's 100% fact. I'm just saying that, it is possible that, the lack of standard HDD in the 360 and the limited DVD format could cause the delay, because the developer might have to take their time to work around those limitation. I'm not bashing the 360, I'm just stating the possibilities

Open world games are one of the ones that are easiest to fit on a disc. The HDD might be an issue, but disc size isn't. GTA:SA last gen game data was 1.5GB, and audio brought the final total to 2.86GB on the Xbox. This generation, Microsoft has even better compression for audio.

-tkf-

04-Aug-2007, 07:34

And according to tkf and todd this is just as plausible as the PS3 being behind development (when all that has been shown is X360 builds).

Ehmm i donÂ´t think i said that did i, i said (in other words) PR releases that favor Sony are "lies" while PR releases that are MS postive are "facts".

The 360 version of GTA4 was in no condition to be shipped, and i guess neither was the PS3. Or lets turnit around. How about Rockstar not wanting to show that the PS3 version ran better and looked better and therefore they kept it secret.

We can free form all day, we are guessing, especially when a PR release isnÂ´t worth the bytes it fills on a harddrive.

-tkf-

04-Aug-2007, 07:37

And you're wrong. :lol:
see!

I guess they are good at making games, not programming them. Are you sure this is a DMA Design guy?

Cheezdoodles

04-Aug-2007, 11:01

Ehmm i don´t think i said that did i, i said (in other words) PR releases that favor Sony are "lies" while PR releases that are MS postive are "facts".

I asked you tkf, what PR? What PR have you been refering to that has come out the last 2 days (counting from yesterday?)

All i have seen is some analysts bs, and some completely insane anti-ms blog BS. Your still unable to produce anything else, and you previously in this very thread stated that we only believe one side of the story because it suits us better.

-tkf-

04-Aug-2007, 12:07

I asked you tkf, what PR? What PR have you been refering to that has come out the last 2 days (counting from yesterday?)

All i have seen is some analysts bs, and some completely insane anti-ms blog BS. Your still unable to produce anything else, and you previously in this very thread stated that we only believe one side of the story because it suits us better.

A Devloper working on PGR4 mentions space constraints on the XBO 360, a PR is released that says "no" and it quoted here as fact.

A PR regarding GTA4 is released stating that Rockstar needs help from Microsoft and Sony in order to get the game done and running proper. Obvisouly itÂ´s a lie and the reason itÂ´s delayed is that the PS3 version doesnÂ´t run.

Cheezdoodles

04-Aug-2007, 12:19

A Devloper working on PGR4 mentions space constraints on the XBO 360, a PR is released that says "no" and it quoted here as fact.

How does this relate at all to GTA? Are PGR4 and GTA4 sharing the same game data?

Are you saying GTA4 is delayed because of space constraints (based on that alien compression technology rumor?) Do you seriously think that an experienced developer like R* actually manages to run out of disc space and this results in a 6month delay?

Come on!! What do you think happend? They made the game and suddenly, WHOOPS!!! Its 18GB big! They aren't retards over at R*, obviously they designed it to fit within the constrains of a DVD9.

A PR regarding GTA4 is released stating that Rockstar needs help from Microsoft and Sony in order to get the game done and running proper. Obvisouly itÂ´s a lie and the reason itÂ´s delayed is that the PS3 version doesnÂ´t run.

Nobody said it was a lie.

iceberg187

04-Aug-2007, 15:30

Blimblim said this about Crackdown today

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7298617&postcount=430

I don't see why it wouldn't be possible. Sandbox game may have a lot of stuff for the actual sandbox, but they also have lots and lots cutscenes/voices that are only used once during the actual story. By having half of these on the first disc and the rest on the second disc, it could definitely work. Like I said before, the world, characters and other 3d models in Crackdown are only 800 MB.

SugarCoat

04-Aug-2007, 18:06

I guess they are good at making games, not programming them. Are you sure this is a DMA Design guy?

i made that up... you have to understand that PR for the most part is used to simply smooth over the situation and can easily contain bias, no matter what type, and him posting some random comment out of the official playstation magazine simply struck me as humerous so i responded in kind.

The simple fact is this, there are countless comments praising the development package microsoft is supplying with the 360, and then theres others saying the PS3 is simply harder to work with, and a few games are even suffering because of it, more and more are coming to light as time goes on. So i tend to swim with the stream of where common sense points, not into it as a few here are doing. I still say they were planning to launch something, i've never seen a publisher release the contents package for elaborate CEs then delay the game its for, for over half a year. Lets not forget the engine used was designed first and foremost for the 360 to begin with. Some people just need to relax and realize that it very well problably is the PS3 version holding up development. Then we can get off that, because it doesnt matter. This sorta sucks for everyone, including the developer/publisher missing the holiday sales boost.

-tkf-

04-Aug-2007, 19:18

How does this relate at all to GTA? Are PGR4 and GTA4 sharing the same game data?

The point was the PR release reagarding the delay was ignored, specifically the part about both versions needing work while a rumour about how it was the PS3 version that was stopping everything got discussed like it was fact.

But you bring up a good point, how does a experienced developer end up delaying a game for 6-9 months, maybe they did really run out of disc space.

Tap In

04-Aug-2007, 22:29

But you bring up a good point, how does a experienced developer end up delaying a game for 6-9 months, maybe they did really run out of disc space.

OR... maybe it was running as expected on 360 (albeit not done) but the PS3 version is too choppy so they had to delay both so as not to break their contract.

I'd believe that far easier over some fanboy wish that BluRay is necessary and DVD is the devil this gen. See, works both ways. ;)

-tkf-

04-Aug-2007, 22:51

OR... maybe it was running as expected on 360 (albeit not done) but the PS3 version is too choppy so they had to delay both so as not to break their contract.

I'd believe that far easier over some fanboy wish that BluRay is necessary and DVD is the devil this gen. See, works both ways. ;)

Blu-Ray isn´t "needed" neither is 512MB ram or more than a 1Ghz CPU, wireless support? who cares, DVD playback?, hell HD isn´t needed either.

But with Blu-Ray disc space shouldn´t be a big issue in the design phase, one less thing to worry about.

EDIT:
If GTA4 ran as expected on the 360 they should lower their targets, even the trailer looked bad.

Tap In

04-Aug-2007, 22:54

But with Blu-Ray disc space shouldnÂ´t be a big issue in the design phase, one less thing to worry about.
....

agreed.

still, more than likely, the odds are that Media size had NOTHING to do with this delay. :smile:

infinity4

04-Aug-2007, 23:33

if space is a problem they can always delete something to fit on dvd.

Neb

04-Aug-2007, 23:37

if space is a problem they can always delete something to fit on dvd.

I would think that sound and music is what takes up quite some space. Different compression method and/or bitrate as solution perhaps?

Ben-Nice

04-Aug-2007, 23:45

OR... maybe it was running as expected on 360 (albeit not done) but the PS3 version is too choppy so they had to delay both so as not to break their contract.

Well considering the only version people have see is the X360 one and it didn't run very well that's not saying much.

djskribbles

05-Aug-2007, 01:05

not saying DVD was a limitation (although you never know) even if the 360 version was ahead in development and was the only version shown doesn't rule out DVD being a limiting factor. in this case, the 360 version could have been the lowest common denominator making it the lead platform and also making the PS3 naturally behind. not saying this is the case, but isn't it plausible?

personally, i think both versions were behind schedule. i mean, not much has been shown and the release date was supposed to be Oct. 2007 wasn't it? we've seen far more of MGS4 and thats coming out Q1 2008.

Tap In

05-Aug-2007, 01:39

Well considering the only version people have see is the X360 one and it didn't run very well that's not saying much.

"running as expected" does not mean it was perfect (hence the "albeit not done")

but if that's the case, imagine how poorly PS3 must be running considering it's never been shown

iceberg187

05-Aug-2007, 04:22

"running as expected" does not mean it was perfect (hence the "albeit not done")

but if that's the case, imagine how poorly PS3 must be running considering it's never been shown

The last time they showed GTA4 to the public, they said that it was a 5 week old build and that the latest build shown substantial gains in frame rate.

http://games.kikizo.com/news/200707/115_p01.asp

And even though this build is five weeks old, we can reveal that frame rate is much improved - certainly more stable since the last build we looked at - so anyone worried about the version shown off at Take 2's conference at E3 two weeks ago can relax. We're almost certain that was precisely the same code that we saw for our first preview, which was already quite old at the time we saw it back in May. When they warn that they are showing unoptimised code, strangely enough, they mean it. Now, the game is graphically a lot more stable, which is why they didn't hesitate to put the game engine through its paces this time with some very fast driving and shooting action around the city, that rarely struggled to keep up, unlike the more, shall we say, 'fragile' old build people have seen.

Xenon

05-Aug-2007, 05:32

Rockstar needs to issue a press release and place Michael Pachter is his place. If this analyst had any credibility he'd invest in his own predictions and assumptions.

PSman

05-Aug-2007, 06:02

Open world games are one of the ones that are easiest to fit on a disc. The HDD might be an issue, but disc size isn't. GTA:SA last gen game data was 1.5GB, and audio brought the final total to 2.86GB on the Xbox. This generation, Microsoft has even better compression for audio.

But I think they might have to sacrify a few things in order to fit it in a DVD:wink: , like repeatitive textures and no different times of day for example.

We'll see how the game turn out

Falkster

05-Aug-2007, 07:25

infinity4

05-Aug-2007, 11:35

original xbox managed to fit 5.1 audio. it shouldn't ever be a problem this gen unless they are going 7.1 ;)

Shifty Geezer

05-Aug-2007, 11:40

And you're wrong. :lol:
see!The cynic in me thinks the P* comments were tailored for their audiences. "Offical PS magazine? We'd better make some disparaging remarks about XB360 so they feel their PS3 is getting the best versions. XB360 mag? Let's complain how awful PS3 is."

Fanboys on both sides hear what they want to hear and believe in their console as the One True Console, and R* get +ve rep among both sides...

Arwin

05-Aug-2007, 12:59

Ugh. Like Arwin said, it's likely both versions are delayed with the blame on both consoles. We already know that each console have disadvantages, no need to point them out every chance you get. Focusing the blame entirely on one console is even worse as neither console is perfect.

Let's just put it this way. As the recent 1up Yours podcast mentioned, the decision to postpone the game was based on the best, latest 360 version of the game, that was shown to the people that had to approve that decision. Based on that build, the decision was made to delay the game.

PARANOiA

05-Aug-2007, 13:19

We already know that each console have disadvantages, no need to point them out every chance you get. Focusing the blame entirely on one console is even worse as neither console is perfect.

It took someone that owns machines to say something so simple and logical. Well done. :grin:

assen

05-Aug-2007, 14:17

original xbox managed to fit 5.1 audio. it shouldn't ever be a problem this gen unless they are going 7.1 ;)

7.1 uncompressed is all the rage these days... apparently HD-DVD is crap because it doesn't have it. Grrrr.

-tkf-

05-Aug-2007, 22:38

7.1 uncompressed is all the rage these days... apparently HD-DVD is crap because it doesn't have it. Grrrr.

You thinking like the Spiderman Blu-Ray box?

SM1 will have 24bit Dolby THD, but the original audio source was 16bit.

SM2 will have 24bit Dolby THD from a 24bit master

SM3 will have 24bit Dolby THD and 16bit LPCM.

I doubt we will see a game with uncompressed soundtracks like in the old days of the CD-ROM. 5.1 doesnÂ´t have to take up more space (not much) since it mostly a question of placing the sound in correct place. Only if you have some advanced stuff where you actually mix some of the sound in 5.1/7.1 in a professional studio could it have itÂ´s use.

morlock

05-Aug-2007, 23:06

I doubt we will see a game with uncompressed soundtracks like in the old days of the CD-ROM
Was'nt LAIR supposed to feature 7.1 uncompressed sound?

Cheezdoodles

05-Aug-2007, 23:53

Was'nt LAIR supposed to feature 7.1 uncompressed sound?

It better, after all those PR statements by julian about how great HDMI is.

ninzel

06-Aug-2007, 02:27

It better, after all those PR statements by julian about how great HDMI is.

Even then don't you need an HDMI A/V receiver for that? I wonder how many people have one that does 1080p pass through as well.

Todd33

06-Aug-2007, 15:37

Even then don't you need an HDMI A/V receiver for that? I wonder how many people have one that does 1080p pass through as well.

Find one that doesn't. If it can do PCM, I'm sure it will pass the 1080P signal. Upconversion is the feature that distinguish most HDMI receivers. BTW even resistance has uncompressed 5.1 audio.

Jesus2006

06-Aug-2007, 15:57

http://www.joystiq.com/2007/05/02/xbox-360-cant-handle-all-of-gta-iv/

Sorry if this have beedn postted before.

My guess, the reason for the delay is because, they have to take the time to try to crammed everything into the smaller DVDs. This can be quiet a pain for them.

Thanks, if that turns out to be true (and i guess it is since there actually is a name behind that claim and its from R*, in contrast to some "unknown" developer) then this is the only official information about possible problems on the Xbox 360 version we have.
Plus it sounds very plausible to me (limitations because of optional HDD on the 360). Additionally, they might even have problems fitting it on a DVD9, not because of size, but because a DVD9 has much lower transfer speeds on the 360 drive and that could very well also be a limiting factor (when they would have to go for a DVD5 because of that) as well.

pipo

06-Aug-2007, 16:16

The fact no living soul outside R* labs has seen a working PS3 version seems to point a different way fandudes.

I'm deeply sorry.

Falkster

06-Aug-2007, 17:11

Thanks, if that turns out to be true (and i guess it is since there actually is a name behind that claim and its from R*, in contrast to some "unknown" developer) then this is the only official information about possible problems on the Xbox 360 version we have.
Plus it sounds very plausible to me (limitations because of optional HDD on the 360). Additionally, they might even have problems fitting it on a DVD9, not because of size, but because a DVD9 has much lower transfer speeds on the 360 drive and that could very well also be a limiting factor (when they would have to go for a DVD5 because of that) as well.

I don't know how many times it has to be said, or how much more clear it has to be for people to understand this, but it's likely that the cause of the delay is a result of both consoles. Reread the thread, look at other multiplatform games that have faced delays, and I think you'll find that there are valid points that suggest both versions are behind.

Here's a thought: this is the first time GTA is being released simultaneously on both consoles, perhaps R*'s resources are spread too thin to accomplish this project on time. Just a thought.

Cheezdoodles

06-Aug-2007, 19:09

Um, want a financial take on why the game got delayed?

Take Two recently fired its entire board of directors, CEO + chairman.

The replacements would want to delay potential big release so they can acredit the success of the title to themselves.

-tkf-

06-Aug-2007, 19:41

Was'nt LAIR supposed to feature 7.1 uncompressed sound?

Well how do you get surround sound from a Console? You encode it to a Surround format for example Dolby Digital (afaik the XBOX had dedicated hardware for this). Or if you have HDMI and a HDMI device that supports HDMI PCM.

Uncompressed PCM would be the choice for anyone that wanted the best sound, most will end up with DTS or Dolby Digital, depending on what the games provides.

Even if the sound is compressed, for example AAC encoded, on the disc it would still be uncompressed PCM coming over HDMI, adjust your PR radar and you get a half truth i guess.

Nevertheless, AC-3 is a bad codec so in any case it will sound better via HDMI uncompressed.

infinity4

06-Aug-2007, 20:19

even 5.1 isn't mainstream, let alone 7.1
sort of arguing between 720p and 1080p imo. ;)

cc123

06-Aug-2007, 23:53

Here is another reason for this delay that is worth considering.

Someone on GAF made a post that said the cause of the delay had nothing to do with technical problems or hardware limitations on either platform. The delay was caused because certain material in the game was deemed unacceptable by some higher ups in light of the recent Manhunt 2 banning.

Now I have no idea if the person should be taken seriously or not but the reason he gave would explain what happened.

Fu3lFr3nzy

29-Nov-2007, 19:59

Arise from the ashes oh ancient thread :runaway:

28353

And a special message that the 3rd trailer is coming out on December 6, 2007.

Prepare for another internet crash folks :razz:

-tkf-

29-Nov-2007, 21:33

Arise from the ashes oh ancient thread :runaway:

And a special message that the 3rd trailer is coming out on December 6, 2007.

Prepare for another internet crash folks :razz:

I watched the 2 first trailers the other day, muted, without sound the real bad frame rate really shows it´s head, i hope they fixed it :-)

Apart from the technical issues one thing that i find extremely interesting is the actual story and gameplay. Considering when it should have been released i would expect the story to really shine after alot of polish and the game to be filled to the brim with lots of little touches and extras.

Strangely enough GTA4 is not up there on my "omg" list like the GTA3 series was. I guess i expect a piss poor PS3 job and a character i can´t get into :-)

Fu3lFr3nzy

05-Dec-2007, 15:29

They dont seem to be mag scans, so I guess its ok to post them:

http://static.videogamer.com/videogamer/images/xbox360/grand_theft_auto_4/screens/grand_theft_auto_4_17.jpg
http://static.videogamer.com/videogamer/images/xbox360/grand_theft_auto_4/screens/grand_theft_auto_4_16.jpg

37 screenshots on this link (http://www.gtagaming.com/gtaiv/screenshots.php?page=1).

Some thing to prep you guys for the new trailer tomorrow :smile:

Fu3lFr3nzy

06-Dec-2007, 20:30

No GTAIV love? :sad:

The trailer just came up a couple mins ago. Surprisingly, there was zero crash (wtf?) and the trailer itself is 2 mins long.

Nothing much to see, just some footage and cutscenes. It definately rekindled my interest in the game though :grin:

TheBlackLodge

06-Dec-2007, 20:30

http://www.rockstargames.com/IV/trailer3/640x360w.html

Arwin

06-Dec-2007, 20:54

AlStrong

06-Dec-2007, 21:42

The main character reminds me of this fellow ->

http://screenshots.teamxbox.com/screen/67817/Call-of-Duty-4-Modern-Warfare/

;)

As for the trailer... I'm not really interested because I'm more into the fantasy/sci-fi setting. I tend to lose interest fairly quickly. That said, the quality seems a lot more consistent throughout the video, so it looks like they're making good use of the extra development time.

D3B

06-Dec-2007, 21:49

The best video yet, got me super hyped for it and the story. The water also looked real nice.

-tkf-

06-Dec-2007, 22:27

The good.. the framerate has gone from "u gotta be kidding" to "ohh i guess that will do".

It looks alot cleaner and has some nice touches like the water, the characters are still primitive if way better than what we saw on the PS2. Maybe i hope for to much?

The thing is, it leaves me stone cold, i am so underwhelmed, i cannot connect. I don´t get the "i wonna be there" feeling. The characters, i just don´t feel anything for them, why should i want to play "them" when they seem so uncool and the enviroments even less interesting.

Unless a miracle happens Vice City will still stand as the peak in this series.

Yes, i expect i will end up buying this game but not as a preorder, i am not convinced.

ninzel

07-Dec-2007, 00:45

Looks fine and about what I expected based on the last trailer. But Ugh the animations :cry:.
Edit: I don't think they should bother to make this game,but I understand the cash in factor.
GTA was revolutionary,this game will be..... good.If I were them I would try and do another game that has the impact the GTA did.
This reminds of how I felt early about Assasins Creed. Sound like a great idea on paper,but may end up feeling generic in 2008.

one

07-Dec-2007, 01:03

Looks to have more actions than older trailers, which is good. But do the characters have facial expressions implemented properly? Sometimes they look like wearing a stiff mask with only eyes and mouth moving, not good for dramatic storytelling.

Shifty Geezer

07-Dec-2007, 08:44

Edit: I don't think they should bother to make this game,but I understand the cash in factor.
GTA was revolutionary,this game will be..... good.If I were them I would try and do another game that has the impact the GTA did.This is supposed to be the last GTA, so I guess they agree with you.

ninzel

07-Dec-2007, 11:16

This is supposed to be the last GTA, so I guess they agree with you.

Oh really? Kudos to them then,I would have thought they would milk it to death just for the cash incentive alone.

DJ12

07-Dec-2007, 11:25

archangelmorph

07-Dec-2007, 12:03

You would assume someone else is going to buy the rights though. Just hope it's someone actually capable of doing it justice (Not that Rockstar North really are to be honest, every game barely hits 20fps on console)

Actually, now that I think about I hope someone else does do it, might be the best/most enjoyable GTA of all time :lol:

Maybe Real-Time Worlds (Crackdown)...?

They're not that far away location-wise either..

EDIT:

Anyways I think you're all putting too much focus on graphics.. We haven't seen anything of the gameplay so far yet & from what Rockstar have announced so far they're really looking for a deep and richly immersive gameplay system (as usual..)

I wouldn't write off the game purely because it's not visually comparable to other kingpins like GeOW & Halo..

DJ12

07-Dec-2007, 12:14

I would settle for a slight improvement over San Andreas if they did it at 60 fps to be honest with you.

wco81

07-Dec-2007, 16:08

Why would they spend all this money to develop a next-gen GTA and then stop?

They should be leveraging the engine for at least a couple more games.

dobwal

07-Dec-2007, 16:37

I just watched it, and my interest just dropped further down. My god, these characters are just not inspiring. It would have been nice if some of those bits had stepped up this gen, but clearly not. Look forward though to small surprises, they always have some cool stuff in there. But overall, this game really doesn't appeal to me.

Given GTA's history, why does your interest lie with GTA4's graphical prowness? If the was an award for "Best Ugliest game that Rocks", :lol: the GTA franchise would win every time.

dobwal

07-Dec-2007, 16:40

This is supposed to be the last GTA, so I guess they agree with you.

I highly doubt that this represent the last of the franchise, given that T2 and Rockstar don't have anything as near as profitable in thier portfolio.

dobwal

07-Dec-2007, 16:41

Why would they spend all this money to develop a next-gen GTA and then stop?

They should be leveraging the engine for at least a couple more games.

They will probably leverage GTA until the wheels falls off and then someone will probably come and buy the rights and try to resurrect the franchise.

archangelmorph

07-Dec-2007, 16:42

I highly doubt that this represent the last of the franchise, given that T2 and Rockstar don't have anything as near as profitable in thier portfolio.

Neither do most publishers.. :wink:

dobwal

07-Dec-2007, 16:49

Neither do most publishers.. :wink:

GTA would have to tank bad for at least a couple of sequels before they retired it and then "see comment above" (post 138).

-tkf-

07-Dec-2007, 19:20

Given GTA's history, why does your interest lie with GTA4's graphical prowness? If the was an award for "Best Ugliest game that Rocks", :lol: the GTA franchise would win every time.

Hmm either my memory is absolutely top notch or it plays game(lol) with me. When i saw GTA3 the first time it was on a demo stand, i thought it looked pretty nice if a bit bland and not something that i would consider state of the art.

The violence and mayheim on the screen got me interested, when i then understood the incredible scope of the game and the (for me) never before seen freedom in a giant 3D world i was impressed. I thought i was looking at the future (i guess i was).

GTA:SA for all it´s shortcommings had the scope and size as an excuse and i don´t recall any game having the same scope and looking anywhere as good.

When played GTA4 may do the same as GTA3 did, look amazing for a game it´s size :-)

I wish they would have selected something else than a Russian Thug to be the main character, i don´t get it :-(

vazel

07-Dec-2007, 19:24

I wish they would have selected something else than a Russian Thug to be the main character, i don´t get it :-(Russian Syndicates are the newest big criminal element after the fall of the Soviet Union. They already did Italians and the common urban thugs, they'll probably do every major type of criminal. Yakuza, Chinese Triad, Mexican cartels.

-tkf-

07-Dec-2007, 19:49

Russian Syndicates are the newest big criminal element after the fall of the Soviet Union. They already did Italians and the common urban thugs, they'll probably do every major type of criminal. Yakuza, Chinese Triad, Mexican cartels.

GTA3 had a silent guy as central character in a semi 90´s enviroment. GTA3: Vice City used the Miami Vice series ad backdrop for a 80s setting that was as serious as the clothes were back then. San Andreas touched some of the current "hotness" with it´s Hip Hop attitude. There was a connection in those games, were is the connection to the Russian Mafia :)

A Chicago settings from the Al Capone days.. that would have worked...

dobwal

07-Dec-2007, 20:13

GTA3 had a silent guy as central character in a semi 90´s enviroment. GTA3: Vice City used the Miami Vice series ad backdrop for a 80s setting that was as serious as the clothes were back then. San Andreas touched some of the current "hotness" with it´s Hip Hop attitude. There was a connection in those games, were is the connection to the Russian Mafia :)

A Chicago settings from the Al Capone days.. that would have worked...

The connection is Liberty City.

The Russian mafia has grown since the fall of the USSR and Little Odessa in Brooklyn is considered the home of the Russian Mafia in the US.

Since we're back in Liberty City, the Russian Mafia makes perfect sense. They're rehashing a past city without rehashing the same crime organization.

Plus, the Russian Mafia has never been strongly represented in GTA3 and its sequels.

-tkf-

07-Dec-2007, 21:29

The connection is Liberty City.

The Russian mafia has grown since the fall of the USSR and Little Odessa in Brooklyn is considered the home of the Russian Mafia in the US.

Since we're back in Liberty City, the Russian Mafia makes perfect sense. They're rehashing a past city without rehashing the same crime organization.

Plus, the Russian Mafia has never been strongly represented in GTA3 and its sequels.

What i meant was something that i could relate to, pop culture, just something. Not the russian mafia :-)

"Nerve-Damage"

22-Jan-2008, 06:48

Eight New Features in Grand Theft Auto IV (PS3) (http://www.gamedaily.com/games/grand-theft-auto-iv/playstation-3/game-features/grand-theft-next/5567/71344/)

Please don't copy the entire article. People should be able to click on links if they want to see everything.
-AlStrong

Arwin

22-Jan-2008, 09:38

Yesterday I saw pre-order boxes for this game in the store (media-markt) which said something like 'get your GTA for Christmas' or something of the sort. So at the very least in Europe it looks like the release date will be late 2008 ...

Enzyme

22-Jan-2008, 12:22

Gerry

22-Jan-2008, 12:30

I've also seen those boxes in Belgium, but they were already there before Christmas last year, so maybe these boxes are some leftovers still from the original release date?
Don't know for sure though.

That's be my guess. Seem ridiculous that they'd be advertising a pre-order for Christmas 08.

Arwin

22-Jan-2008, 13:07

Ok, that could be. I just haven't seen them ever before, but if they existed already somewhere else, then that's probably it.

AntShaw

22-Jan-2008, 17:08

Eight New Features in Grand Theft Auto IV (PS3) (http://www.gamedaily.com/games/grand-theft-auto-iv/playstation-3/game-features/grand-theft-next/5567/71344/)

Oh my too the drunken driving. That sounds FUN! :)

I can only see what this will lead to!

Diamond.G

22-Jan-2008, 17:51

Oh my too the drunken driving. That sounds FUN! :)

I can only see what this will lead to!

The news is gonna have a field day... A game advocating drunk driving. I can see Mr Thompson's press release right now...

Heinrich4

22-Jan-2008, 18:40

Any news about extra content for x360?

(its amazing MS pay US$50 millions for this,unless they created a "liberty city" and "vice city" exclusively for them)

AlStrong

22-Jan-2008, 18:44

Does the $50M include marketing deals?

Heinrich4

22-Jan-2008, 18:59

Does the $50M include marketing deals?

I dont now how much of this 50 mill* they include marketing deals,but for this numbers is to high for only extra content/episode etc,they have include something very ,very important my guess...extra district,subdivision of city(this place needs to very huuge..).

*
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Theft_Auto_IV

(wow 150 guys working for this game!)

rbushner

22-Jan-2008, 20:09

Keep in mind, the 50 million is an advance, meaning it has to be paid back.

PARANOiA

22-Jan-2008, 21:48

The news is gonna have a field day... A game advocating drunk driving. I can see Mr Thompson's press release right now...

Oh boy. They just like asking for trouble :lol:

The last few GTA's have been banned in Australia too. I don't think the drink-driving thing will go over too well here, since the government spends a lot of money trying to convince people it's a bad thing. So it goes.

AlStrong

22-Jan-2008, 21:49

What's the matter with simulating an experience that may deter someone from doing it in real life? :roll:

;)

Antan

23-Jan-2008, 18:01

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=180050

Zassk

23-Jan-2008, 19:47

The IGN preview is also good, and quite detailed. The game seems to be shaping up very well.

It sounds like the PS3 version isn't ready to be shown yet.

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/847/847102p1.html

djskribbles

24-Jan-2008, 00:08

edit: nm

Arwin

24-Jan-2008, 14:00

New official date!

- 29th April 2008

(funny, my wife is due 26th)

iceberg187

24-Jan-2008, 15:16

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1580161/20080123/index.jhtml

Rockstar said that the PS3 was a contributor to the delay, but they feel that the two versions are equal now.

"GTA" games haven't missed their announced release dates before. When the delay was announced in August, Take-Two CEO Strauss Zelnick told investors that "the reason it is being delayed is almost strictly technological problems — not problems, but challenges." Barrera offered a little more detail to MTV News this week: "It's really no surprise to anybody that the PS3 was definitely a contributing factor to that. Now, we're neck and neck. That's not an issue anymore. But back then that was something we were taking into account. That's not to say there's anything wrong with the PS3 version. It's awesome. They're both identical."

DJ12

24-Jan-2008, 20:19

Oh no, he said they're both identical which is PR speak for they aren't :lol:

betan

24-Jan-2008, 21:11

Oh no, he said they're both identical which is PR speak for they aren't :lol:

What is the PR speak for "they are"?

Anyway, I'm very skeptical of this comment as well, the last trailer on PSN was like 15 pfs.

DJ12

24-Jan-2008, 21:46

They haven't need one for when they really are identical yet so I wouldn't know.

Squilliam

24-Jan-2008, 22:01

What is the PR speak for "they are"?

Anyway, I'm very skeptical of this comment as well, the last trailer on PSN was like 15 pfs.

Not mentioning it! :)

I never got into the last game but I hope to get into this one. If it has better firing controlls.

Antan

24-Jan-2008, 22:46

Skrying

24-Jan-2008, 23:03

AntShaw

24-Jan-2008, 23:25

Not sure I like them cutting customization completely. I kind of liked making CJ a bit tougher, or fatter, or at least a new outfit or such. Otherwise I'm really looking forward to GTA IV. I like the approach they're taking and making it a bit more serious. I really hope the game world is truly engrossing and gives us lots of options. I would love a much more active city. Meaning people seem to have a place they're going to, etc instead of model36 on street C.

You know, was discussing this with blokes, and that was the common disappointment. The lack of customization was a sticking point. But, with that said, it was pretty much the only negative consensus point.

It would be nice if the cities were as active as Assassins Creed and the vertical ability as in Crackdown.

scooby_dooby

24-Jan-2008, 23:39

Skrying

25-Jan-2008, 02:35

Personally I thought the customization was a weak attempt at adding replay value, it never did much for me at all.

This new idea of taking friends out, and doing different activities sounds like much more fun.

It certainly wouldn't have made me play again, but stop in the gym or fast food place a few more times than normal in order to get buff/fat? Sure did. Just a neat aspect to the game, not a major negative of course. But I'll miss some of the outfits.

scooby_dooby

25-Jan-2008, 03:11

It certainly wouldn't have made me play again, but stop in the gym or fast food place a few more times than normal in order to get buff/fat? Sure did. Just a neat aspect to the game, not a major negative of course. But I'll miss some of the outfits.

I did too. But in retrospect, all that time I spent working out, and jogging etc was really really boring, and I'm glad they're replacing it with something that looks more enjoyable.

Different outfits would be cool though, it's pretty much the norm for GTA style games right now, and was pretty fun in Saint's Row. Hopefully they do do some of that...

djskribbles

25-Jan-2008, 04:25

If indeed they are "equal" then why did Rockstar only show the 360 version this week?
because thats how it usually works... they usually only show one version as its easier for them.

Arwin

25-Jan-2008, 07:30

In the IGN article they claim to get a hands on within a couple of weeks, and will then get to see the PS3version.

wco81

25-Jan-2008, 18:43

Preview talked about Natural Motion.

Would this be the first Natural Motion game?

Acert93

26-Jan-2008, 09:19

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1580161/20080123/index.jhtml

Rockstar said that the PS3 was a contributor to the delay, but they feel that the two versions are equal now.

Vindicated (http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?p=1087076&highlight=GTAIV+Take-Two#post1087076) :wink:

To look back, Take-Two stated (http://ir.take2games.com/ReleaseDetail.cfm?ReleaseID=258238):

Certain elements of development proved to be more time-intensive than expected, especially given the commitment for a simultaneous release on two very different platforms

Take-Two further commented (http://www.joystiq.com/2007/08/02/take-2-grand-theft-auto-iv-delay-almost-strictly-technological/) that the delay was, "almost strictly technological challenges". As I noted back then all the direct data told us that:

1. Parts of development (not all) were more time-intensive than anticipated.

2. Notably the unexpected time-intensive parts were in the context of a simultaneous release--i.e. one was taking longer than the other.

3. The cause of the delay was primarily related to said technological issues.

Shorthand: One of the platforms is taking a lot more time and effort to get into a shippable shape.

Our trusted B3D-Forum sources proposed a number of suggestions. One was that Rockstar was using the HDD and MS put a kabosh on Rockstar releasing GTAIV in a state that wouldn't work on 10-20% of 360s. Another was that it wasn't specific technical issues as the Take-Two investor data indicated but the 360 version that was shown to the big wigs under delivered. Others put the blame on the small 360 DVD size.

On the other hand Pachter immediately floated (http://www.gamedaily.com/articles/features/pachter-you-can-blame-the-ps3-for-the-gta-iv-delay/70754/?biz=1) that it was the PS3, like many other titles, that was the root of the delay. And the MSNBC.com article on titles delayed until 2008 (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21535382/) stated that the PS3 was the cause of the delay, and a poorly kept secret as the cause.

But Pachter is an idiot and always wrong and MS is using MSNBC for their own political good and all those PS3 delays were because the developers just sucked, and the only thing that sucked more was my sources :razz:

Ok, vindication aside, the trend does appear that developers are getting a lot of parity with the two systems (which I expected (http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=45041&highlight=GTAIV+Take-Two&page=6)). I am very interested to see if NaturalMotion can have some benefits on the PS3 due to Cell as well as the robust CPU memory setup. I would summerize this generation so far as having a lot of titles with robust features but not many design changes (like NM and DMM potentially offer) that couldn't have been done on older consoles. More+Better is often good enough, but it will be cool to see some revolutionary technology that defies traditional game design and past technology limits.

mister slim

27-Jan-2008, 11:18

While the PS3 version was behind the 360 version, there's no way the 360 version was ready to ship last October.

_phil_

27-Jan-2008, 11:30

i hear a lot of trouble integrating endorphyn .it's a middlware solution very hard to work with.Nothing is straightforward ,and solvers would rely much more on data than previously said or think (adjusting for more predictibility).It certainly can drive production scheduling into the unknwon and beyond.

djskribbles

27-Jan-2008, 12:17

While the PS3 version was behind the 360 version, there's no way the 360 version was ready to ship last October.
+1. just over a month before the original release date, no gameplay footage was even shown. there was more footage shown of other games that are to be released Q2 this year! theres no doubt the PS3 was a contributor to the delay (as Rock Star said), but they did not say it was the only reason for the delay. and maybe it was better that they did delay, because as recent previews have said, it looks far better than it did before.

Arwin

27-Jan-2008, 12:23

I agree also. While I don't doubt the PS3 posed them more problems than the 360 (why would Rockstar be different from the majority of developers in that respect), if you listen to the 1up yours podcast, you will be reminded of how 1up/EGM saw earlier builds of the 360 version that had a very bad framerate, and that the version they've seen now runs more or less smooth.

Arwin

29-Jan-2008, 13:50

Some hopeful news on the shooting parts of the game:

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/848/848094p1.html?RSSwhen2008-01-28_142600&RSSid=848094

Indeed, in terms of combat GTA IV almost has more in common with Gears of War than it does with San Andreas. What we've seen happen over the last couple of years is that a new standard for combat mechanics has emerged for third person videogames, regardless of genre. Whether it's an action adventure game like Uncharted: Drake's Fortune, a straight-up shooter like Gears of War or an open-world title like GTA IV, certain things are expected – smooth, accurate control for targeting, intuitive cover mechanics and non-restrictive agility. GTA IV checks off all those boxes, and while going hands-on will be the most important test, it's clear from our latest – extensive – eyes on, that Rockstar North is on the right track.

DJ12

29-Jan-2008, 13:59

Slide GTA over to the column I don't care about then.

-tkf-

29-Jan-2008, 14:08

Some hopeful news on the shooting parts of the game:

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/848/848094p1.html?RSSwhen2008-01-28_142600&RSSid=848094

I want to solve my "problems" in a car or a helicopter when i play GTA :-)

Arwin

29-Jan-2008, 14:33

Slide GTA over to the column I don't care about then.

Because it was already there, or because you liked the gunplay of the previous version so much then?

Because we all know, the gunfighting was the highlight of all previous GTA games, right? :shock: :lol:

archangelmorph

29-Jan-2008, 14:39

Slide GTA over to the column I don't care about then.

Sure!

Because sloppy, broken lock-on mechanics are so much better than tighter, realistic & deep shoot & cover mechanics for any game..!!

:roll:

ShaidarHaran

29-Jan-2008, 15:02

Before everyone declares jihad on DJ12 for daring to go against the grain, stop and think about it for a minute. GTA has always been more of a casual gaming experience than a hardcore shooter. I for one welcome the change, but can see why others would be put off.

DJ12

29-Jan-2008, 15:08

Because it was already there, or because you liked the gunplay of the previous version so much then?

Because we all know, the gunfighting was the highlight of all previous GTA games, right? :shock: :lol:
I don't like gunplay at all.

Being able to lock on, switch targets realtively easily and being able to run away was right in my tolerant zone for "gunplay"

Cover, spending time aiming (other than with a sniper rifle) and other such "realistic" stuff is not my cup of tea at all.

It's a game not a real life crime simulator.

archangelmorph

29-Jan-2008, 16:07

I don't like gunplay at all.

Being able to lock on, switch targets realtively easily and being able to run away was right in my tolerant zone for "gunplay"

Cover, spending time aiming (other than with a sniper rifle) and other such "realistic" stuff is not my cup of tea at all.

It's a game not a real life crime simulator.

According to RockStar,

They seem to be making a concious effort to make the game into a "crime simulator", gunplay or not..

Point is, GTA's move away from the child's play "gaminess" & into the realm of "hollywood-style epic" was inevitable considering thats the kind of stuff that really sells to the mass hardcore (aka COD4/Halo3 crowd) & with other GTA-a-likes really raising the bar iun terms of quality this gen when compared to last (you only have to look at the differences between games like Saint's Row+Crackdown to games like True Crime to see what i'm talking about..) then it's pretty clear Rockstar REALLY needed to come into the current gen with a couple of GTA paradigm shifts to set themselves apart from the crowd again..

or risk getting lost in it by the swathes of AAA open-world titles either on the market or yet to come..

I'm not trying to downplay your expectations/desires for the next/GTA, i'm merely saying that Rockstar probably didn't have much of a choice with respect to getting rid of a mechanic which the vast majority of GTA lovers didn't like so much & preferred the offerings of competing IP (Saints Row..)

wco81

30-Jan-2008, 04:45

Sounds like they're trading pace and flow in favor of realism.

What was that game about anarchy that Rockstar did?

Are you going to be able to do hit and run, run and gun?

Is there going to be any manic gameplay?

JardeL

31-Jan-2008, 01:31

http://kotaku.com/assets/resources/2008/01/gta_iv_wanted_poster.jpg

:] ...

orionthehunter

31-Jan-2008, 22:23

What was that game about anarchy that Rockstar did?

State of Emergency

scooby_dooby

31-Jan-2008, 23:21

I don't like gunplay at all.

Well, if you don't like gunplay...GTA is obviously not the game for you!

I applaud the new skill based approach, lock on and switching targets by flicking the stick is lame and boring imo.

DJ12

01-Feb-2008, 09:29

But it was exactly the game for me.

You will note the title Grand THEFT AUTO not Grand Theft Auto bogged down with crappy "skill" based aiming of guns and cover.

Arwin

01-Feb-2008, 10:08

But it was exactly the game for me.

You will note the title Grand THEFT AUTO not Grand Theft Auto bogged down with crappy "skill" based aiming of guns and cover.

You're not making any sense. They have auto-aim, as well as the option to do things manually. In either case, shooting is going to be easier than in any previous GTA. You would be making sense if we knew that there would be a major shift from stealing cars to shooting compared to the previous games. Right now though, I don't get your complaints.

Personally, no GTA so far has been able to capture my fancy. Niko looks totally unlikeable and makes me feel that this time it won't be different, but the gameplay improvements may change that. It's not looking good yet though, for me. But for fans of the series so far who are afraid that the series will change too much for their liking, I think things are looking very well.

DJ12

01-Feb-2008, 11:28

Did you read the comment I replied to?

I want GTA to be exactly what it has been since it was concieved, only for people to now tell me I don't want GTA at all, being rather obtuse in the process.

Arwin

01-Feb-2008, 11:54

Yes, but I'm saying you're not paying close attention. The skill part is optional. People who enjoy aiming and stuff can use it, but it's OPTIONAL. :D

Riddlewire

01-Feb-2008, 12:45

State of Emergency
Worst game I ever played.
Not the same devs as the GTA guys, though.

scooby_dooby

01-Feb-2008, 16:24

Did you read the comment I replied to?

I want GTA to be exactly what it has been since it was concieved, only for people to now tell me I don't want GTA at all, being rather obtuse in the process.

GTA as it was originally concieved was a top down shooter with no auto-aim whatsoever! And the majority of the game was mowing down massive amounts of people with different weapons, stealing cars has always been just a small portion of the gameplay.

vazel

01-Feb-2008, 16:53

stealing cars has always been just a small portion of the gameplay.Maybe in the first two GTA games but certainly not in the PS2 ones...

rabidrabbit

05-Feb-2008, 11:07

Wonder how much of the delay is because of PS3 version's localisation.
It'll release worldwide at the same day, and many top class PS3 games have had subtitles for different languages.
I would bet GTA4 also has subtitles, possibly even dubbing in different languages because it has a lot of story and dialogue.
That would be a very welcome addition for those who's command in english language isn't good enough to be able to excecute the missions in game.

Arwin

05-Feb-2008, 11:24

betan

05-Feb-2008, 14:28

Many top class PS3 games had both subtitles AND voice in no less than thirteen different languages. But then there's also the manuals that have to be printed in different languages and so on. If the game releases worldwide the same day, then it matters little - actually, the 360 version is a tad more complex because it may then have a lot of different masters, vs the single worldwide master for the PS3. For instance, Halo 3 had only one spoken language on the disc, but it was German in Germany, French in France, etc.

Do counties require separate certification, or is it just a single EU-wide one?
Anyway, I'm not sure about the disk space/Blu-ray part, but I see no reason for localization effort taking more time for PS3 than 360 (regarding rabidrabbit's point).

How extensive was the localization for other big multiplatform titles (CoD4, AC) on PS3 and 360? Was it any different?

Shifty Geezer

05-Feb-2008, 18:07

Do counties require separate certificationYes.

I dunno why localization would take so long. If you recorded/produced the foreign language assets alongside the rest of game development, you'd be done in the same time. Still, it's a good few months before US releases are released in the EU for whatever reasons.

Arwin

05-Feb-2008, 18:12

Stuff like booklets/manuals are tricky, if you make them too soon and change something ... but then they still need to be printed. There's definitely also an issue with the different European ESRB like regulations and such. I know Lair had a lot of trouble with Germany, ironically, with the bits of meat that fell off a dragon or something silly like that.

sevanig

05-Feb-2008, 21:51

Any news on how the Ps3 version is looking??

woundingchaney

05-Feb-2008, 22:16

I dont believe any recent news is available specifically for the PS3 visuals maybe few mentions here and there. Im thinking the media released so far has been done on the 360.

-although Im not entirely sure

ShaidarHaran

06-Feb-2008, 00:28

Yes.

I dunno why localization would take so long. If you recorded/produced the foreign language assets alongside the rest of game development, you'd be done in the same time. Still, it's a good few months before US releases are released in the EU for whatever reasons.

I think localization as a reason for delay is sort of an inside joke of devs. Case-in-point: the developers of Microsoft Flight Simulator X released the latest enhancements via SP2 in the expansion pack "Acceleration" several months before the service pack itself was available. Their reason for the delay "localization". :roll: So they can get it (localization) done for a product shipping for revenue but not for a freely-available patch? It doesn't take months to do that, I'm sure one person that speaks each language could do it in a week or less. Unless they just have one guy doing all the localization, there's no legitimate reason for it to take so long. There's barely any dialog in Flight Sim. You've got the training missions, some text for a few menus, and ATC. All of that's already been done for the original release anyway, so why the hell would they even need to do that for a service pack? It's not like any of the aforementioned items changed...

Arwin

06-Feb-2008, 00:43

Any news on how the Ps3 version is looking??

After the latest 360 preview, IGN promised they'd get a hands on sometime soon after (a few weeks or so), and that the hands on would be either on PS3, or they'd get the hands on on 360 and also get to see the PS3 version, can't remember which.

rabidrabbit

06-Feb-2008, 09:40

I mean if Sony's requirements for localisation were more than those of Microsoft's.
In the end, both versions will likely have the same language options, at least in subtitles.

betan

06-Feb-2008, 18:33

Yes.

If that's the case having a single SKU may be disadvantage.

Shifty Geezer

06-Feb-2008, 19:41

AlStrong

06-Feb-2008, 20:57

Where are the discs pressed/manufactured?

archangelmorph

07-Feb-2008, 12:22

The only alternative to this would be an English release coinciding with the NA release available internationally, followed by the localised SKU(s). That has good and bad points too.
I *really* wish Square-Enix would adopt this mode of delivery because, prior to this generation I was pretty dog sick of having to wait almost 14 months after the initial release of a FF title before being able to play it in the UK..

Or, you only release world-wide, which would be ideal if developers could get localisation sorted in development without delaying the whole world a stupid amount. Rogue Galaxy was 8 months after the US release, with no different content other than localisation. Why would it take 8 months?! I've no idea, and don't know if world-wide releases are plausible/sensible, but I can't see why it wouldn't be.
Well alot of games do it to be fair so it's not that big of an issue provided you plan for it & also provided the scope of content which requires translation isn't rediculously huge.. For example if you have 400,000 lines of text & 5,000 lines of speech in your title then unless you both pin down the (near-)final scripts in pre-production & get your localising up & running alongside production then it should be manageable.. Also you'll need to make sure you leave enough time for (& pre-plan prior to) QA & testing your localized text especially in places like menus etc, where variations in localized text (e.g. 3 letters in one lang & 10 in another) can cause UI issues that need addressing..

However for most game you wouldn't have anywhere near that amount of content anyways, RPGs being the exception..

assen

07-Feb-2008, 12:26

A smaller publisher with limited cashflow would like to receive the first money back from the first territory before paying hard cash for fabrication and marketing in the next territories.

dobwal

08-Feb-2008, 19:11

I think for the sake of stock and production management, it's pretty much needed. Europe might sell 1 million copies of a game, but you don't know how many will be in French, Spanish, English, German,... speaking countries. If you print 250,000 for each of four languages and the demand is 500,000 in one and 0 in another, you've got 250,000 units sitting around doing nothing. If the discs are multinational, you can spread the production run around where its needed.

You have to be a pretty retarded in terms of management to let that happen. You should have a pretty good ideal of initial demand of your product since you can start taking orders from retailers and wholesalers well before the release date of your product giving you enough time to determine where you should concentrate your product. If your product doesn't sell well in a certain region then they just end up sitting on somebody else's store shelves and not in your warehouse.

The only alternative to this would be an English release coinciding with the NA release available internationally, followed by the localised SKU(s). That has good and bad points too. Or, you only release world-wide, which would be ideal if developers could get localisation sorted in development without delaying the whole world a stupid amount. Rogue Galaxy was 8 months after the US release, with no different content other than localisation. Why would it take 8 months?! I've no idea, and don't know if world-wide releases are plausible/sensible, but I can't see why it wouldn't be.

Localization represents a cost and the way to minimize the risk of taking on unnecessary cost is to guage the demand through a limited release. Franchises like GTA and FF can get away with worldwide release. But you don't want to take on localization costs and do a worldwide release only to find out your game sells like crap. Its best to release your game in its target markets to get a better ideal whether or not your franchise will be successful in other markets.

I understand why new franchises do limited releases. I don't understand why FF does so, as having to wait a 12+ months for a NA version or a Euro version makes absolutely no sense. I guess Square doesn't feel the need to take on additional cost of doing numerous localization concurrently and upfront or they want to spread their costs, revenue and profits over time. Maybe they like having their FF franchises releases bolster more than just 1 fiscal year.

sevanig

09-Feb-2008, 08:00

New ps3 gta info http://www.n4g.com/ps3/News-109247.aspx
Plus new trailers at http://www.gametrailers.com/game/2924.html

The Roman one is the funniest :) he is such a crack up...

Ps3 version looks the same as 360 (no surprise) also runs smooth too.
I hope it doesn't have any v-sync problems (Roman running in the video, probably the 360 version)

Ive gone to Pre-order now (my 1st ever pre-order)

aselto

09-Feb-2008, 13:28

- The faster you tap X, the faster Niko runs.
Have Rockstar heard about analogue sticks? :/

DJ12

09-Feb-2008, 17:12

More to the point haven't Playstation 3 magazine heard of GTA 3, Vice City or San Andreas.

-tkf-

11-Feb-2008, 10:01

Site is live:

http://www.rockstargames.com/IV/

Arwin

11-Feb-2008, 13:18

I saw a few clips of talking people on Gametrailers, and I must say that certainly didn't sell me on the game ...

Fu3lFr3nzy

11-Feb-2008, 20:20

Maybe this Kotaku preview will, Arwin? (http://kotaku.com/354714/gta-iv-reinventing-a-world) :wink:

Well, it got my interest anyway :lol:

sevanig

11-Feb-2008, 22:00

I saw a few clips of talking people on Gametrailers, and I must say that certainly didn't sell me on the game ...

What about the roman video, that was hilarious
http://www.gametrailers.com/player/30426.html?type=flv

pipo

13-Feb-2008, 12:05

Microsoft's senior VP of Interactive Entertainment, Don Mattrick, has told the Major Nelson podcast that Rockstar's forthcoming super-title, Grand Theft Auto IV, will have multiplayer elements which will be exclusive to the Xbox 360.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=33062

Arwin

13-Feb-2008, 12:10

That seems to me a completely misleading article. In both quotes, its ambiguous and can be easily read as referring to the downloadable content only. If the multiplayer aspect was exclusive also, there would have been a huge Microsoft press-release about it, a couple more tattoos, etc.

Sorry, but this is lousy and irresponsible reporting. I'm sure they'll get a lot of hits, but unless they miraculously prove to be right (which I'm willing to bet some money on they aren't), they've lost some status points from me.

liolio

13-Feb-2008, 12:20

They state they will contact Rockstar asap so I'm waiting for the MAJ

pipo

13-Feb-2008, 13:17

Vague...

“As we’ve said previously, both versions of the game will have an online multiplayer component,” a Rockstar spokesperson told VG247.

http://www.videogaming247.com/

It surely doesn't rule out the original 'multiplayer elements which will be exclusive' quote.

An 'online component' could be anything to be honest.

As long as there's co-op, I'm game! :)

Edit - GI seems to agree...

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=33065

"It's always something we've been open about, both versions will support online multiplayer capabilities," a Rockstar spokesperson told GamesIndustry.biz, although exact details on those capabilities have not been announced as yet.

Arwin

13-Feb-2008, 13:50

My goodness, they act all surprised ... !

Either they really don't understand their own language, or they are doing just that: acting, and working to get those hits. I'm sure it worked.

rabidrabbit

13-Feb-2008, 14:14

Obviously, some (or all) of the 360 exclusive downloadable content will be multiplayer oriented, like maybe some extra maps, player skins, missions...
That was hardly any news.
The core multiplayer experience still seems to be same in both versions, whatever it will be like.

Speaking of multiplayer maps, as the game is set in Liberty City, for reasons the maps (if there will be any such, or if there'll be just the one big LC map) need to be parts of the city.
Will they take the approach like in Warhawk, where different "maps" will be bordered areas of the complete city map, or will they take the Burnout Paradise approach where the multiplayer element can be "called upon" anytime over the singleplayer experience.

ManuVlad3.0

13-Feb-2008, 14:17

Debunked:

Rockstar has denied suggestions that Grand Theft Auto IV will only feature multiplayer on Xbox 360.

"As we've said previously, both versions of the game will have an online multiplayer component," a Rockstar spokesperson told videogaming247.

It all stemmed from Xbox boss Don Mattrick claiming multiplayer was "unique" to his system in a podcast interview with Larry "Major Nelson" Hryb yesterday.

However, the Xbox 360 version will feature those exclusive downloadable episodes after launch.

Grand Theft Auto IV will be out on Xbox 360 and PS3 on 29th April.

http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=92667

DJ12

13-Feb-2008, 14:42

I must say it's truly a surprise that total BS has come from something involving Major Nelson :lol:

pipo

13-Feb-2008, 15:11

Debunked...

*cough*3 posts up*cough*

Tap In

13-Feb-2008, 17:16

Obviously, some (or all) of the 360 exclusive downloadable content will be multiplayer oriented, like maybe some extra maps, player skins, missions......

yep

I think the quote was just taken out of context from the Major Nelson interview (as usual)

scooby_dooby

13-Feb-2008, 17:33

Obviously, some (or all) of the 360 exclusive downloadable content will be multiplayer oriented

I think it's obvious theres more to it than that, they've constantly referred to the content as 'Episodes'.

rabidrabbit

13-Feb-2008, 18:21

scooby_dooby

13-Feb-2008, 19:59

Well I did say "some", sorry that I missed the "?" from "(all?)"
Episodes could be multiplayer too, though that would probably be somewhat challenging to develop.
Really, there's no point in starting to argue what the downloadable content will be like, as we know very little yet.
Point is, somewhere along the way the message that 360 would have multiplayer exclusively, was twisted. It's far fetched to read "something more" into that.

No need to apologize, I was simply pointing out that it seems pretty likely that there will be alot more to it than simply some multiplayer maps. That much has been clear from day 1.

So I definately don't think that there's much chance of 'all' the DLC being multiplayer oriented.

I mean, episodic content is pretty straightforward, we now what that is. Then there's the $50million pricetag of development. Seems obvious with a budget like that, that the DLC will be a continuation of the SP campaign.

dobwal

14-Feb-2008, 19:16

It would be wonderful if Rockstar's episodic content was GTA3: Revisted, basically replaying GTA3 in GTA4's version of Liberty city.

I mean the storyline and content is already there. All you would have to do is redo the art of the all major and some minor GTA3 characters , relocate some of missions from missing locations and dole out further compensation for music and voice acting.

In all probability it would be cheaper or at least cost the same to bring GTA3 to GTA4 than 10-20 hours of new content.

The GTA3 storyline would basically be the same but the inclusion GTA4's visuals and gameplay mechanics would create a whole new experience.

It would also be nice if latter episodic content reintroduces some of the continuity that GTA series is known for but is supposely missing in GTA4. Reintroducing Claude as the protagonist with Niko now the major antagonist of the story would do alot to mesh the world of GTA3 and GTA4 together where only 7 years seperate the two time lines.

Characters like 8 ball, one arm Phil and Donald Love could be established and some storylines resolved such as Love Media and the Leone family.

-tkf-

22-Feb-2008, 09:35

Another update on the GTA4 website, thanks to that webpage i am finally starting to warm up to this game.

For example:
http://www.rockstargames.com/IV/#?page=dilettante

And i think the graphics are starting to get there as well, though the framerate is still sucky.

slider

22-Feb-2008, 10:47

For example: http://www.rockstargames.com/IV/#?page=dilettante

:lol:

Good to see the old GTA sense of humour is still there; something which hadn't been obvious with the previous trailers.

The Whiz Mobile ad was particularly old school GTA I thought.

EDIT: I did the personality quiz on the Love Meet page (yeah, I know...). Apparently I'm a douchebag*.

*I now realise how much I've missed GTA.

-tkf-

22-Feb-2008, 10:53

Apparently I'm a douchebag*.

You to? :-)

RobertR1

22-Feb-2008, 20:29

So it Looks like Microsoft has finally announced what it's Exclusive DLC deal w/ Rockstar really means, according to Microsoft each episode of DLC content will be equal to the games San Andreas and Vice City for Ps2/Xbox. They have also stated that Digital Downloads will be the new way to deliver the GTA "Expansions."

So it looks like with this new announcement if you were planning on playing the Vice City/San Andreas versions of GTA IV the 360 is the Definitive version to get, with the first expansion arriving as early as Fall this year and the next one to follow-up in 2009.

GTAIV DLC

* When MS says exclusive, they mean that no other system can have DLC content for GTAIV

* It will be bigger than a lot of people think. GTA3 Vice City and San Andreas were basically expansions of GTA3. Think of the DLC that way. We are talking major expansion for GTAIV
* No price has been discussed yet. It's up to Rockstar on whether or not they will charge for it
* If successful, DLC may be the new way to deliver GTA expansions

http://www.n4g.com/xbox360/News-114529.aspx

dobwal

22-Feb-2008, 20:43

RobertR1

22-Feb-2008, 21:07

Perhaps they'll do a price drop with exclusive marketing rights and strong push as it gets closer to release?

AlStrong

22-Feb-2008, 22:26

Geebus... that's still pretty big for an expansion. With new cities, they can't be reusing a significant amount of assets from Liberty City. They have to be promoting larger hard drives. Aren't Vice City and San Andreas a few gigabytes each? And that's with low resolution assets too...

-tkf-

22-Feb-2008, 23:11

You think that MS would really hype these massive expansions even before GTA4 hits as a way to definitely push the 360 GTA4 as the must have sku.

When I say hype I mean more details other than they are "big" and "exclusive".

And sell more xboxes with Harddrives :-)

Ironic that this exclusive deal is on the platform where the hardware is not included.

Still sounds like some major additions but excuse me for being sceptic. The way it´s presented it seems like several "full" games exclusively on one platform and all in downloadable form.

Zassk

22-Feb-2008, 23:22

You think that MS would really hype these massive expansions even before GTA4 hits as a way to definitely push the 360 GTA4 as the must have sku.

They probably want to produce enough consoles to sell before they push this. :)

wco81

22-Feb-2008, 23:59

MS paid $50 million for the exclusive content and Rockstar may charge on top of it?

It will be the same Vice City and San Andreas content with higher resolution and graphics?

Maybe Rockstar will think that if they give the DLC for free, it could compete with future GTA shrink wrap games.

AzBat

23-Feb-2008, 01:53

I didn't read it as GTA IV DLC including Vice City or San Andreas. I read it that the content will be _like_ the size of those games. So more like they'll be adding more suburban cities to the existing Liberty City.

* It will be bigger than a lot of people think. GTA3 Vice City and San Andreas were basically expansions of GTA3. Think of the DLC that way. We are talking major expansion for GTAIV

Tommy McClain

Tap In

23-Feb-2008, 02:01

I didn't read it as GTA IV DLC including Vice City or San Andreas. I read it that the content will be _like_ the size of those games. So more like they'll be adding more suburban cities to the existing Liberty City.

Tommy McClain

of course

It is to be read as each of those cities size are an "example of the scope" of those extended maps which would comprise each of the DLC packs.

AlStrong

23-Feb-2008, 02:03

If they're going to be as big of a release as Vice City or San Andreas, it'd be pretty silly not to have retail packaging... And if they're going to promote the Arcade as the cheapest route to playing GTA, then simultaneously promoting the fact that they have exclusive DLC is rather inane (not to mention evil). (edit: ...people who buy Arcade would have to buy a stupidly priced hard drive)

On such a scale, one would be looking at several gigabytes worth of material per "pack". That's just as enticing to 20GB SKU owners as shoving a finger up a pie hole and adding some lube just to make it easier; the pie hole still gets the finger.

[/rant]