View Full Version : Nvidia and EA Form an Alliance
:( not a good news for consumers.
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/030410/sfth034_1.html
Chalnoth
10-Apr-2003, 11:26
No, this looks quite closely-related to something I've been wanting to see for some time:
NVIDIA also announced that it has been awarded the exclusive OEM bundling rights to certain EA PC titles. Under terms of the agreement, NVIDIA will act as sole OEM distributor of certain PC titles published under the EA Games and EA Sports brands, bundling select content with its PC manufacturer and system builder partners.
While it is doubtful that many of these exclusive games will turn out to be all that great, it does seem quite certain that these games will give people quite a bit more to play with in the latest graphics technology than tech demos.
I don't expect the rest of the agreement to have much effect, but exclusive games for the latest GPU's will really help people to see the benefits of higher-end hardware earlier.
ATI should do the same thing.
And, of course, all this is riding on the expectation that such exclusive games will never become very widespread, but will just be sort of a "better tech demo" for early-adopters.
what else is new??
3dfx and EA had something like this in the past...
Which also caused "the troubles" that nVidia cards had NFS PU just after the launch and for the very same reason all NFS series games (excluding NFS 6 aka. HP2) used Table fog that was only HW supported 3dfx boards. Rash driver (d3da.dll / dx7z.dll / voodooa.dll) engine based games were always primarily optimized for Glide and D3D support was more or less because everyone else had it too. performance in D3d was awful compared to Glide. (for example NFS PU run smoothly on Pentium 233 with Voodoo1, while Celeron 300A and 16MB Matrox G400 had serious troubles running it with same settings.) from the NFS'es you can pick any game since NFS 2 SE all way up to Motor City Online and each of those were way or another optimized for 3dfx cards.
and reason why they do it not until now, is that afaik 3dfx deal was made for 5 years. and that happened somewhere in Q1 / 1998. (and if you count backwards five years from now.... well, you get to the point.)
Reverend
10-Apr-2003, 12:23
Thread moved, as can be expected...
Mariner
10-Apr-2003, 12:26
I don't expect the rest of the agreement to have much effect, but exclusive games for the latest GPU's will really help people to see the benefits of higher-end hardware earlier.
ATI should do the same thing.
And, of course, all this is riding on the expectation that such exclusive games will never become very widespread, but will just be sort of a "better tech demo" for early-adopters.
Well, my understanding of it is that they will getting the OEM rights only. In other words, you'll still be able to buy the games in the shops and play them on your ATI/whatever card but you won't get the game bundled with any other card than an NVidia one.
This would seem logical to me - I can't imagine EA would forgo the chance to sell lots of games to owners of cards other than NVidia ones.
Waltz King
10-Apr-2003, 12:40
[Sorry for my English...]
I don't think this will be a problem at all. So some EA games will probably have an "nVidia GPUs recommended"-sticker on their boxes or something like that, and maybe some games will feature some "FX-exclusive" (or better "FXclusive"? ;) ) special effects, but EA will make sure that their games will run on other hardware as well. We won't see another "Glide". nVidia's market share is just not big enough.
Remember the "The way it's meant to be played"-campaign? Or Cg? None of these brought us a second "Glide" as some of us expected, or did they?
And about this "exclusive OEM distributor"-deal - well, when I understand this correctly, these EA games will still be sold on the retail market, but nVidia will be the only hardware vendor with *OEM* distribution rights - so we will see some EA games getting bundled with nVidia-based graphic cards just as today, and this just means that you cannot get these games as a software bundle with an ATI-based card (or any other brand's card).
demalion
10-Apr-2003, 13:02
The issue, as I see it, boils down to how this implication manifests in reality:
NVIDIA and EA will also discuss opportunities to implement NVIDIA-specific features and special effects in several upcoming EA titles such as Madden NFL Football 2004 and others for the PC platform.
The rest doesn't really worry me significantly.
EA is exactly the type of short term (in terms of individual titles) focused company that this seems to fit :( due to their "throw away" franchise focus (not necessarily throw away quality, but throw away treatment): EA establishes or buys rights to franchises where people buy the name...quality is secondary, they have profit based on established franchises (e.g., The Sims), and customer support seems focused not on customer satisfaction with individual titles, but preventing returns for the duration of the time they are selling well.
I'd say the magnitude and frequency of the manifestation of this part of the announcment will depend on the lack of significance of the quality of the title to the bottom line of sales, and the sales figures of the GF FX family. Also, perhaps, on further incentives from nVidia.
This crap is exactly what we dont need....the fact that the EA team is being supplied with Nvidia cards to program with, only in my eyes proves that the firms future games will be programmed to run better on NV boards. This is a bad trend. I would be just as PO'd about it if it was ATI doing it. Games should be designed, to the best of the programmers knowledge, to run good on all pc platforms. But this is no longer going to be the case....What if the entire gaming comunity fell into this type of mindset?....I would be better off buying a Freakin' console to play on. At least then I know I would be getting the most out of the game I shell out money for. .......F.U. EA Games, I hope this all comes back to haunt you. Unfortunately though, people will buy your titles, not knowing that this type of video card racism is going on behind the scenes....
parhelia
10-Apr-2003, 19:57
This is not good.
Will this mean that EA will develop primarily on NV cards and that they will forget all other boards?
In other words, if the game has issues with ATi or other baords, EA will just leave the bugs as they are as they only focus on NV?
Remember the "The way it's meant to be played"-campaign? Or Cg? None of these brought us a second "Glide" as some of us expected, or did they?
Look, CG was designed for NV30, and NV30 barely hit retail, it's TOO EARLY, too PREMATURE to draw conclusions. You have to wait till E3 at least (and wait to check if Half Life 2 is indeed NV30 exclusive or not) before jumping on conclusions.
Good god, people. EA is only agreeing that their titles will only be bundled with NVDA cards. This means that ATI can't sign a deal to bundle their games in with their hardware.
It means nothing with regards to what cards are supported in the game.
It means nothing with regards to the retail sales of the game.
It means nothing about the development of these games. Don't forget that EA is a publisher, not a game studio.
I swear... any time someone can run up the flag and decry DOOM AND GLOOM, they do so and then go on to explain how this is going to RUIN the industry. Please! It's not as if this has been the way the industry has been working for a decade... oh, wait. This is EXACTLY the same way the industry has been working for the past decade.
Any time you see the words "Exclusive agreement" you can conclude that it's primarily advertising. If you don't like advertising, I suggest you kill yourself, because it's not going to get any better.
To sum up:
Wonk! Wonk! Wonk!
No......Todays news across the boards tell a different story. NV is supplying EA with GeForce FX's for their programmers. If you dont think that this is going to give NV boards an edge as far as how the game will look and perform, then well, I dont know what to tell you....Nvidia might enjoy having a better games bundle to go along with their boards but it goes much deeper than that....I think that a move like this is just the beginning. If your cards dont perform as well as the competitions, then buy out the programmers(if at all possible) to make sure that they do.......snakes.
LeStoffer
10-Apr-2003, 20:32
Any time you see the words "Exclusive agreement" you can conclude that it's primarily advertising. If you don't like advertising, I suggest you kill yourself, because it's not going to get any better.
:)
But to be fair, flf, it could well go a bit beyond just advertising:
EA development teams will use PCs powered by NVIDIA GPUs to create eye-popping 3D effects while allowing full compatibility across all PC gaming systems featuring NVIDIA hardware. NVIDIA and EA will also discuss opportunities to implement NVIDIA-specific features and special effects in several upcoming EA titles such as Madden NFL Football 2004 and others for the PC platform.
I remember EA Sports having a tough time getting DX working as good as Glide in the past in the FIFA soccer series, so if that is any lession to go by, I wouldn't rule out a friver-fumble here and there on other IHV's.
But they would never go truely IHV-exclusive on any big titles me figures.
nooneyouknow
10-Apr-2003, 20:49
Here is the reality:
1 - This is a marketing play by a company that does not have the fastest product on the market. Argue all you want on the future, but at the present, they don't.
2 - There will be some titles that are enhanced for Nvidia simply by using PS 2.0+ shaders. The developer may even be prohibited from trying to implement the same shader in PS 2.0 with multipass.
3 - Any REAL PS 2.0+ shader will suffer from performance issues. By 2.0+, I mean longer than 65 (whatever the PS 2.0 limit)instructions. Of course, this is all dependant on how many pixels are being run through the shader, but in general, this will adversely affect performance.
4 - Rest assured developers will not be using Nvidia hardware exclusively. They get ATI products very easily and have ATI products in their QA labs.
5 - The ultimate issue will be how 'enhanced' the effects are that are Nvidia exclusive, how they perform (I assume less since they will be performing more instructions), and if it truly makes the game anymore enjoyable.
The only problem that I see if that the mainstream market people will think that this means they need Nvidia hardware to get the best experience in their EA games. And those are the same people that are going to be buying the slower NV3x-based boards, thus when running those 'enhanced effects', they will be slower and slower. Quite the experience I must say :)
This post is not to start a flame war, etc. It is simply my take on it and that is it.
I think the post above me sum's it up pretty well. I bet EA games isnt the only game house that Nvidia is trying to work over.
Hellbinder
10-Apr-2003, 21:04
Remember the "The way it's meant to be played"-campaign? Or Cg? None of these brought us a second "Glide" as some of us expected, or did they?
Good grief.... :roll:
Things like this do not happen in a couple days now do they....
You have to be completely blind, or in complete denial not to see the overall pattern and direction of events. Exclusive deals, likely means some form of exclusinve support, likely means more exclusive use of CG and other things, means Nvidias name and tech on the box, means people at the store think they need Nvidia cards becuase 50% of the games on the shelf say so.. right on the box.
John Reynolds
10-Apr-2003, 21:29
]You have to be completely blind, or in complete denial not to see the overall pattern and direction of events. Exclusive deals, likely means some form of exclusinve support, likely means more exclusive use of CG and other things, means Nvidias name and tech on the box, means people at the store think they need Nvidia cards becuase 50% of the games on the shelf say so.. right on the box.
It's just marketing and therefore simply not worth getting excited/worried about.
Although it does bother me that Nvidia might be able to convince the general gaming community that their boards are the best, I think that I should find ease in the fact that 'I myself' know whats best for 'myself'....But still, if the majority of games that I enjoy playing, play better on NV graphics, I wont really have a choice but to buy their products. All of the driving games that I love so much, are mostly produced by EA Games(though I love Rallisport Challenge).....This is simply forcing the hand of serious gamers, and I hate it.
I just installed a patch on UT2K3 that makes the game say "ATI"..The Way it's Meant to be Played".....I feel a little better now.........
Tagrineth
10-Apr-2003, 22:26
I just installed a patch on UT2K3 that makes the game say "ATI"..The Way it's Meant to be Played".....I feel a little better now.........
Mine says 3dfx ;)
I just installed a patch on UT2K3 that makes the game say "ATI"..The Way it's Meant to be Played".....I feel a little better now.........
Mine says 3dfx ;)......You Rock!
Crusher
10-Apr-2003, 22:34
Does the game run faster now too?
Does the game run faster now too? It most certainly does!
parhelia
10-Apr-2003, 22:52
Friends, the danger is real, look at this :
"Electronic Arts has a tremendous track record for developing games that can be enjoyed by consumers of all ages and both the hardcore and casual gamer alike. By exclusively adopting NVIDIA hardware for their worldwide studios, EA is escalating the creative palette of its 3D artists and programmers," said Dan Vivoli, executive vice president of marketing at NVIDIA. "Our FX family of GPUs were designed to usher in an era of cinematic computing, and we couldn’t be more thrilled that EA has signed on to help us meet our goal."
]
Remember the "The way it's meant to be played"-campaign? Or Cg? None of these brought us a second "Glide" as some of us expected, or did they?
Good grief.... :roll:
Things like this do not happen in a couple days now do they....
You have to be completely blind, or in complete denial not to see the overall pattern and direction of events. Exclusive deals, likely means some form of exclusinve support, likely means more exclusive use of CG and other things, means Nvidias name and tech on the box, means people at the store think they need Nvidia cards becuase 50% of the games on the shelf say so.. right on the box.
Actually I kinda agree, but I don't see the point, ATI can do the same thing give free cards to dev's and get deals right? Or are they not allowed
Ichneumon
10-Apr-2003, 23:39
It is that *exclusively adopting* part that sounds nasty...
better be non-nvidia cards in the test machines and a lot of testing done on them, because given the GeForceFX's penchant so far to perform like arse with any real pixel shader ops unless they're coded all wacky it sounds like it could be messy...
Edit: It also probably means no PS1.4 fallbacks, only PS1.1-1.3 since I imagine that CG will go along with all those dev cards... Gets more and more icky the more I think about it...
]
Remember the "The way it's meant to be played"-campaign? Or Cg? None of these brought us a second "Glide" as some of us expected, or did they?
Good grief.... :roll:
Things like this do not happen in a couple days now do they....
You have to be completely blind, or in complete denial not to see the overall pattern and direction of events. Exclusive deals, likely means some form of exclusinve support, likely means more exclusive use of CG and other things, means Nvidias name and tech on the box, means people at the store think they need Nvidia cards becuase 50% of the games on the shelf say so.. right on the box.
Actually I kinda agree, but I don't see the point, ATI can do the same thing give free cards to dev's and get deals right? Or are they not allowed Your missing the point, programming specifically for a particular technology is bad for the community, I would be just as disapointed if it was ATI doing this. I know that this all revolves around the almighty dollar, and supporting a game company can be seen as healthy by some, but the actual motives behind Nvidia's move here makes the good gesture completely null and void. I dont want to see a slew of games being developed that I know would run better on a GeForce card...over my ATI board.
IceKnight
11-Apr-2003, 02:22
I dont care, since, I dont like EA games at all.
I dont care, since, I dont like EA games at all. You WOULD care if Nvidia bought off the game company you favor....(unless you own a GeForce board).....that was kinda a not too smart post.
nooneyouknow
11-Apr-2003, 02:36
Does anyone think that this deal cost Nvidia a few graphic boards? lol
This deal cost MULTIPLE MILLIONS of DOLLARS. Of course that is my educated guess but that is the reality. EA would not do this for peanuts. Not a huge deal like this. A one-off, one title deal, maybe, but not EA, not that many titles.
Does anyone think that this deal cost Nvidia a few graphic boards? lol
This deal cost MULTIPLE MILLIONS of DOLLARS. Of course that is my educated guess but that is the reality. EA would not do this for peanuts. Not a huge deal like this. A one-off, one title deal, maybe, but not EA, not that many titles.I agree completely...
WTF is wrong with ATI? :?
If they don't start playing the same game Nvidia is playing, they will have a tough road ahead.
Nvidia is slowly becoming like Intel, and ATI is becoming similar to AMD.
The majority of consumers will feel comfortable buying Intel, simply becuase they don't know AMD.
If the NV logo is plastered accross game boxes all over the world, slowly consumers will start feeling comfortable about buying Nv equiped hardware, simply becuase they don't ATI exists.
Wake up ATI!
K.I.L.E.R
11-Apr-2003, 09:24
Fuz, Ati have 19% of market share (I think I last seen) and nVidia have 32%. :)
Richthofen
11-Apr-2003, 11:23
well not in the market segment which consists of people playing games.
Overall market share doesn't count much here because no one with an intel graphics chipset plays games.
I think that 32% number still is a littlebit to small considering overall market share.
I think its more like 35 to 40%.
martrox
11-Apr-2003, 11:49
well not in the market segment which consists of people playing games.
Overall market share doesn't count much here because no one with an intel graphics chipset plays games.
I think that 32% number still is a littlebit to small considering overall market share.
I think its more like 35 to 40%.
And from where did you pull this number? Maybe you should wash it before displaying it! :wink: You really need to think before you pull this stuff out in the daylight. :P
LeStoffer
11-Apr-2003, 12:37
The only problem that I see if that the mainstream market people will think that this means they need Nvidia hardware to get the best experience in their EA games. ...
This is a first in a series of nVidia shock and awe campaigns and EA just happen to be the first place where a regime change was badly needed according to the Santa Clara based company. But so far no casualties have been reported from the nVidia camp. :wink:
nooneyouknow
11-Apr-2003, 15:08
Agreed, this is the start. Well, actually, UT 2003 was the start.
It is a shame that an IHV has to buy support when the other gets it for free. The other can't tell anyone due to these types of agreements though.
Does anyone recall Nvidia's comment way back in the day when 3DFX was pulling this crud?
I think the publishers like these types of deal but I doubt many developer do. Being shoved down their throats as they rarely see any of this money.
Fuz, Ati have 19% of market share (I think I last seen) and nVidia have 32%. :)
Well, if Nv succeed with this marketing campaign, I think the figures could change quite a bit in a few years... in Nv's favour.
I remember many years back, the "Voodoo" branding worked wonders for 3Dfx. Customers just asked for a Voodoo card with out knowing anything about graphics cards, just because they had seen and heard the name Voodoo in almost every pc magazine.
You don't need the best hardware in the industry to be the most successful.
Brand recognition is a powerful tool.
tazdevl
12-Apr-2003, 00:01
Most game developers/publishers try to expand the size of their potential market, not limit it. There's just going to be some groovy CG enhancements to EA games and ATI cards will still be used from a development and QA as well.
Seems to me it could potentially make it a bit more challenging for ODMs/IHVs to develop creative bundles that will assist in their differentiation efforts. I'd like to see the details on how this could affect pricing on both sides and what kind of model they're using.
EA has a solid brand and isn't lacking in brand awareness.
As JR said, it's just marketing, not a big deal. Enough with the doom and gloom.
duncan36
12-Apr-2003, 01:02
Fuz marketshare numbers are misleading the last two quarters Nvidia has been meeting earnings through volume and pricing.
Now Nvidia is looking down the barrel of a gun, their next generation products by and large underperform the old GF4 seriers and obviously because of lack of volume cost more to produce.
So they've got a faustian decision to make, keep the volume up on the GF4 and sell at a low price to OEMs to entice them which in turn causes the volume on the GF FX line to suck and them to get bad press over a failed product line.
Or switch over to the GF FX line which is inferior to ATi's DX9 parts and fight an uphill battle(more like losing) battle to retain OEM dominace.
Looks to me like they're doing the former and insanely rushing to get to their next generation of parts.
Theres more to numbers than meets the eye.
NVIDIA and EA will also discuss opportunities to implement NVIDIA-specific features and special effects in several upcoming EA titles such as Madden NFL Football 2004 and others for the PC platform
This is ridiculous. It's like having the cable companies saying that their signal is optimized for Sony technology, and that some channels you can only get if you have a Sony TV set.
Give me a break.
Dave Baumann
12-Apr-2003, 10:17
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,1020656,00.asp
"The bundling is an exclusive," the spokeswoman added. "It does not mean that EA's software will only run on Nvidia's hardware. There will be some custom work (although it might not be proprietary) for Madden '04 and maybe another title or two down the road, but this is mostly a marketing/bundling deal."
martrox
12-Apr-2003, 11:17
I just installed a patch on UT2K3 that makes the game say "ATI"..The Way it's Meant to be Played".....I feel a little better now.........
Mine says "Shutup..... and play the damn game!" :wink:
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,1020656,00.asp
"The bundling is an exclusive," the spokeswoman added. "It does not mean that EA's software will only run on Nvidia's hardware. There will be some custom work (although it might not be proprietary) for Madden '04 and maybe another title or two down the road, but this is mostly a marketing/bundling deal."
Well NV sure tried to make it sound like they got the exclusive deal. Then again, EA wouldn't say what "custom work" is, so we'll have to wait and see the game before passing out the final judgement.
Even if its only just one game with some Nv specific effects, the fact that all future EA games will carry the "The way its meant to be played" logo on its boxes is a big bonus for Nvidia.
ATI need to start a similar campaign, imo. Improving brand recognition couldn't hurt.
I just installed a patch on UT2K3 that makes the game say "ATI"..The Way it's Meant to be Played".....I feel a little better now.........
Mine says "Shutup..... and play the damn game!" :wink:Geez, I searched gamecopyworld.com for that patch but couldnt find it!...j/k
From http://spong.com/:
The deal also mentions that beginning with the next generation of Electronic Arts PC games, exclusive content will be included for nVidia cards, with “…nVidia-specific features and special effects in several upcoming EA titles such as Madden NFL Football 2004 and others for the PC platform.” Reading between the lines, this seems to indicate that you will be able to play the games using other cards, but they’ll look rubbish.
It’s also interesting to note that the game specifically mentioned, Madden 2004, is one of EA’s key titles for the coming months in the American market, indicating the level of cosiness between the two companies.
Indeed, nVidia insiders openly admit the fact that pitches are in place for a variety of titles to be nVidia exclusive. “Per-title exclusivity is the ideal situation for nVidia,” we were told.
Personally I do not like this and if this is true I will simply not get an Nvidia board and not purchase products that prioritize NVIDIA hardware over the competition. Graphics companies should be fighting to build the best hardware for the current API's, not creating their own in order to gain market share. I think NVIDIA spent too much time working with MS on the XBOX as marketing schemes of MS seemed to have rubbed off on them.
blake_mooney
19-May-2003, 12:48
This crap is exactly what we dont need....the fact that the EA team is being supplied with Nvidia cards to program with, only in my eyes proves that the firms future games will be programmed to run better on NV boards. This is a bad trend. I would be just as PO'd about it if it was ATI doing it. Games should be designed, to the best of the programmers knowledge, to run good on all pc platforms. But this is no longer going to be the case....What if the entire gaming comunity fell into this type of mindset?....I would be better off buying a Freakin' console to play on. At least then I know I would be getting the most out of the game I shell out money for. .......F.U. EA Games, I hope this all comes back to haunt you. Unfortunately though, people will buy your titles, not knowing that this type of video card racism is going on behind the scenes....
AGREED!
:( not a good news for consumers.
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/030410/sfth034_1.html
The folks who think this is no big deal I agree with. Look at the source of the PR--it's nVidia's, not an EA press release.
This is just a part of nVidia's ongoing PR marketing campaign. I bought my copy of UT2K3 and it came with a nVidia-paid-for advertisement that said "nVidia-the way it's meant to be played." When the game first shipped lots of people didn't understand that this was merely an advertisement--they incorrectly inferred some "special optimization" for nVidia products was coded into the game. I was very pleased to see that the game ran much better on my 9700P than it ever did on my GF4 Ti4600, and long ago replaced the nVidia ad with an ATI logo.....*chuckle*
When EA starts listing on the product boxes the "special nVidia features" their games are coded to support that aren't supported by other hardware, then you might want to take notice. But as long as these PR comments are coming from nVidia and not EA, and as long as the "special nVidia feature support" remains entirely *undocumented* you can safely ignore such PR propaganda. Because that's all it is--it's marketing speak and will have as much real significance as the nVidia logo has in in UT2K3...;)
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