View Full Version : Why is everyone so harsh on SIS ?
slaterat
09-Apr-2003, 06:45
As far as chipsets go SIS has been very successful imo. They have delivered low cost chipsets with top line features and excellent performance and stability. I believe someone on this forum stated the SIS has delivered what VIA promised, I am in total agreement with this.
As far as the Xabre goes, I think SIS delivered the goods. A low cost directX 8 GPU, unlike Nvidia who held back PC game development a whole year with the diectX 7 GF 4MX.
Sure SIS uses what I call "proprietory techno jargon" and is guilty of pipeline bs 2x4 not 4x2 , but are they any worse than the Major players?
SIS has improved their drivers, the blurry textures are gone, and I have had no problems with any game , old or new, I have thrown at my Soltek Xabre 400.
More competition is good for everyone, why do you think Nvidia is offerring a low cost DX 9 GF FX ?
Where are all the other great pretenders? The BITboys, VIA/S3,
the Kyro 3, Creative Labs P 9 consumer board?
I think SIS deserves credit for what they have done . They have produced the Xabre 200, 400 and 600. The first with agp 8x and .13 micron. If they pull off the Xabre II they could become the third major player in GPUs.
Slaterat
chavvdarrr
09-Apr-2003, 07:12
[quote="slaterat"As far as the Xabre goes, I think SIS delivered the goods. A low cost directX 8 GPU, unlike Nvidia who held back PC game development a whole year with the diectX 7 GF 4MX.
Sure SIS uses what I call "proprietory techno jargon" and is guilty of pipeline bs 2x4 not 4x2 , but are they any worse than the Major players?
I think SIS deserves credit for what they have done . They have produced the Xabre 200, 400 and 600. The first with agp 8x and .13 micron. If they pull off the Xabre II they could become the third major player in GPUs.[/quote]
I agree that SIS is doing good job - especially with chipsets. The problem with Xabre is IMO that pixel shaders performance is unsatisfactory. That combined with compatibility problems (which are to be expected - everyone tunes for NV chips these days) , plus bad picture quality...
A note: Xabre's pipeline is 4x2 not 2x4 . Just shows hard-to-explain anomalies in some synthetic tests.
Where are all the other great pretenders? The BITboys, VIA/S3,
the Kyro 3, Creative Labs P 9 consumer board?
Bitboys:
- left the field about a year ago, doing some low power, small, low level cores for Mobile phones.
Kyro 3:
- canned.
Creative Labs P9 consumer board:
- out but not directed for gamers market.
Why is everyone so harsh on SIS ?
Coz they are cheap and nasty and not cheap and good.
;)
SiS, Via and so on are fine for stability on a home machine for nearly everyone. However, unlike what many people love to think, they're quality still isn't up to Intel standards. This isn't a big deal, since Intel's standards are in most cases overkill and cost a bit much.
Ichneumon
10-Apr-2003, 06:33
This isn't a big deal, since Intel's standards are in most cases overkill and cost a bit much.
Unless you're working in a server environment of course...
SiS, Via and so on are fine for stability on a home machine for nearly everyone. However, unlike what many people love to think, they're quality still isn't up to Intel standards. This isn't a big deal, since Intel's standards are in most cases overkill and cost a bit much.
SiS IS much better than VIA in ANY terms of mobo chipsets. I prefer them instead of VIA. Of course, they're far from perfect (goddamn sisagp.*!) but MUCH better (faster, more stable) than VIA.
This isn't a big deal, since Intel's standards are in most cases overkill and cost a bit much.
Unless you're working in a server environment of course...
?
Do you know SiS chipsets intended for server boards? I don't think so... means we don't have too much choice for servers, even though just for 4-way...
parhelia
10-Apr-2003, 19:50
I wholeheartedly agree with slaterat.
I mean, comeon, give SiS a break instead of bashing them because of their past reputation.
SiS indeed delivered what Via had only promised. They are doing a great job with their chipsets.
As for the Xabre, they indeed delivered the goods. Who would have thought they would be able to offer a DX8.1 GPU when nVidia is struggling with their poor DX7 card (GF4 MX)?
Competition is good. The Xabre is indeed making it possible for the mainstream market to have a DX8 GPU instead of that crappy DX7 MX.
My Xabre 400 has performed amazingly for its price IMO. The drivers have since matured and are getting increasingly better at each versions.
As for image quality, I have indeed noticed the quality is now excellent, since driver 3.10.51, the image quality issue you guys are mentionning has been solved. And no, it's not my imagination either, other Xabre users (http://xabregamers.dgwh.com) have noticed the same too.
As for competition,
- The BITboys - they retired from the desktop market
- Matrox - they're focusing only on professional cards
- Creative Labs P9 - same
- Kyro 3 - dead
- VIA/S3 DeltaChrme - not as powerful as Xabre II
All the great contenders lots of people rave about are unable to compete with SiS offering. Yet, SiS, the only one capable of competing with ATi and nV, is being slandered by the very guys who say they want competition and that no monopoly is good. Interesting, isn't it?
Well... :roll:
demalion
10-Apr-2003, 20:08
What slander?!
If they fixed their image quality problems, it is a matter of having that established as the perception instead of the low quality they really did offer before.
Am I missing a bunch of SiS bashing threads cropping up all over the place?
The best thing for them, IMO, is to get the Xabre II out quickly and make sure not to make the poor first impression they did with the Xabre. Competing with products like the NV34 (maybe NV31 too...depending on performance for the Xabre II), the timing seems absolutely perfect right now.
SiS have many many problems with their chipsets as well.
Trust me I worked in tech support having to deal with customer enquiries on why they couldnt get their Alcatel modems to work properly (this also afflicted the VIA boards to some degree). And the same problem was found on one particular ASUS Intel based mobo.. the CUSL2 IIRC.
The SiS 655 chipset, the SiS 648 chipset.. are both pretty rubbish from a tech support perspective too.
This only happens when companies cut corners. So far the only good 3rd party chipset has been the NForce series and NForce 2 (even though there are more problems with NForce2).
Just my tuppence worth.
parhelia
11-Apr-2003, 09:45
and there are also lots of people complaining they have problems with their wonderful nForce2, so what's the point?
Via also faces similar problems, no one is perfect
When these are simply USB problems or caused by not following the spec of AGP or PCI it smacks of CUTTING CORNERS.
SiS and VIA have been known to do this time and time again.
So that is the problem. Anyway you pay for what you get... you want cheap you get cheap.
slaterat
12-Apr-2003, 04:07
Personally I think a lot of troubles with MBs result from low quality board manufacturers. I would never recommend or buy a low quality mb, it is the foundation of your system.Typically my MBs last me through two rounds of upgrades. Initial cpu and videocard and then replacements. My solution was to stick to a top name MB , Asus, with a
non Intel chip, SIS 645DX. The results for me have been excellent. Stability , performance and a bargain price. My P4S533 came with excellent 6 channel on board cmedia sound, and on board lan. This was $70 cheaper than a comparable bare bones asus intel based board. Heck that paid for most of my Soltek xabre 400 $105. All prices in Canadian dollars.
Slaterat
The SiS 645DX is one of the better SiS Chipsets I have to admit that too but .. ;)
As far as graphics chips go, SiS is the trident of today. Yes, the integrated on-board video I have on one system actually works, but it's still crap.
No comment on any of their high (or supposedly high) end offerings.
I needed a gaming system on the cheap. My mobo cost me 39 dollars US at Fry's. It has an SiS735 chipset on it. I think that SiS kicks ass in the budget system segment, and I thank them for meeting my needs. I have had zero problems with this board.
So long as you don't do too much --plug in lots of devices, especially the weird ones-- you can easily get very stable baords from SiS. If you want a really cheap budget rig, I'd have to agree with SiS being your only route.
Then again, this doesn't mean it should end up in work stations and servers. =)
Stefan Payne
28-Apr-2003, 21:15
SiS IS much better than VIA in ANY terms of mobo chipsets. I prefer them instead of VIA. Of course, they're far from perfect (goddamn sisagp.*!) but MUCH better (faster, more stable) than VIA.
But only if you don't want to use registred RAM.
I've got a Crucial registred ECC DIMM but I only got it work in VIA and AMD Consumer Boards.
ok, the VIA Chips doesn't support ECC...
edit:
I forgot:
On my first 'real' PC board there was a SIS chipset.
It was the famous SIS471 with 3 VLB slots IIRC.
Oh yes that was rather old and the base of my 486DX2/66...
blake_mooney
21-May-2003, 10:35
SiS, Via and so on are fine for stability on a home machine for nearly everyone. However, unlike what many people love to think, they're quality still isn't up to Intel standards. This isn't a big deal, since Intel's standards are in most cases overkill and cost a bit much.
i disagree i think via is better then intel at quality and price thats why i always buy from them :D
YeuEmMaiMai
22-May-2003, 15:30
I do not know about intel platforms but I can say without a doubt that SiS offerings for AMD are way better than VIA's for anything (SiS 735 or newer)
1. SiS 735 Single Chip Solution, very fast none of the VIA problems such as incompatability with creative soundcards. capable of running reliably at 166 FSB (MSI 735 Ultra board does this quite well)
2. No once a week driver updates to fix all of the errors that they found in the previous week unlike some others in the field
3. IDE perfomance is very good and it is not riddled with problems like VIA's
4. AGP works as advertised and video card drivers do not have to revert back to a lower settings unlike certain VIA offerings.
5. The only bad thing that I can think of about SiS is asyncronous performance and that we definately resolved in the 746 chipset
6. the onboard modem does work as advertised no problems with it
7. Price check out some of ECS SiS boards and you will see they are quite cheap with good perfomance and stability....
SiS have many many problems with their chipsets as well.
Trust me I worked in tech support having to deal with customer enquiries on why they couldnt get their Alcatel modems to work properly (this also afflicted the VIA boards to some degree). And the same problem was found on one particular ASUS Intel based mobo.. the CUSL2 IIRC.
The SiS 655 chipset, the SiS 648 chipset.. are both pretty rubbish from a tech support perspective too.
This only happens when companies cut corners. So far the only good 3rd party chipset has been the NForce series and NForce 2 (even though there are more problems with NForce2).
Just my tuppence worth.
YeuEmMaiMai
22-May-2003, 15:32
crappy double post
Tagrineth
22-May-2003, 17:32
i disagree i think via is better then intel at quality and price thats why i always buy from them :D
Price? Yes.
But how can you say Intel chipsets are lower quality than VIA ones, while keeping a straight face? Ever done tech support?
Chipsets are one thing, actual motherboard quality is a whole other tomato.
The reason Intel is perceived as a higher quality is that they tightly control the quality of parts used on the motherboards. Remember that nasty capacitor scandal? Intel used the old type despite the extra cost and came out of it looking like liquid gold.
As for other motherboard companies, today I looked at an Amptron (PCChips) motherboard which had blown nearly every capacitor.
Strangely enough, ECS, a relatively no-name company backed by an evil, evil, company (PCChips) produces almost Intel quality boards using SIS chipsets.
In all the systems we have sold, we have never, ever had a bad ECS board. Hell, one time a little urchin of a customer wiped his BIOS while overclocking and we just swapped the BIOS chip out with a fresh board, booted up, swapped back, and flashed the bad BIOS. It worked like a charm too.
The point is, beyond chipset compatability issues, motherboard quality is something I and my coworkers hold sacred. Chipset bugs are one thing, those can be overcome with BIOS/Software updates, but shitty motherboard construction is a much more tragic and cruel game, especially when your store is shipping out many similarily configured computers.
caffeinated
13-Jun-2003, 16:24
I concur that ECS motherboards are quite good. Their desknote PC's aren't bad either.
yeah, the desknotes are neat, especially when you get those rich sort of people that don't want a full size computer, they just want something small and cute to put in the kitchen.
then you dont feel bad selling them a full out laptop, knowing it will be sitting in the same place for most of its life.
caffeinated
13-Jun-2003, 23:41
Bender, Exactly...they are perfect for those that aren't going to move them around much, and want something to collect their email on that doesn't take up space. They are hardly a gaming box, but I've been toting one around for 3 months as my primary PC (moving, etc.), and it's really not bad at all to take with you if you are just going someplace with a plug and are just using it to surf, get email, and play an occasional round of Diablo2 or Warcraft3. Morrowind is just pitiful on it though :( But I've yet to throw something at it that won't run...Just sloooooow LOL
caffeinated
13-Jun-2003, 23:44
Dang, I didn't see that one word in your post...."rich sort"?
The things are dirt cheap! You couldn't get a Dell for the price of one of these! Maybe an e-Machines, but it would probably not be half the machine!
Truthfully, I know most people think they are horrible, but they really are excellent for a not so mobile, broke person that wants something that can go somewhere OR who doesn't play a lot of games, but likes to watch movies.
I live in canada caff, everything is expensive here.
what I meant about rich sort is the frame of mind they have when they come in the store. They usually want something cute and small and dont care how much it costs.
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