My MS Wheel experience

[RobertR1]

After playing the Forza 2 demo and seeing how realistic the handling is, I decided to get a wheel to really bring forth the realism.

First of all, unpacking requires some brain power esp. since I did not want to demolish the box in case I need to return it. After that mess, I finally got my hands on the wheel. The thickness of the wheel was good but it's quite small. Much too small for my hands but that's something I could adapt to in time. So I tried to use it on my lap. Horrible idea. I quickly moved the 360 to the PC Monitor (dell 2405 component hookup), latched the assembly onto the desk and locked the wheel into place. Had the pedals braced up towards the back of the desk so they didn't move.

Now it was testing time! Fired up the demo and got right into a race with a Z06 with TCS off. This did not go well. The wheel was not realistic in any sense that I'd hoped. First of all there was a lot of play but it was only to the right. So from 12 - 1 o'clock I had free play and steering only after that. Turning left there was no play. This clearly made corrections a pain as I'd have to try and compensate for the play to the right but no play to the left. I'm sure this can be adjusted but this wasn't the biggest issue. The bigger problem: steering inputs were slow to react and you simply could not flick the wheel fast for a quick correction due to the resistance and the slow movement the wheel allowed. The wheel also didn't not respond to very well to minute corrections in order to control understeer.

Then we move onto the pedals. 40% application on the brake pedal = 100% in game. The gas isn't as bad but still suffers from inconsistant travel vs input. There is no feedback in the pedals. Both controls are simply very difficult to modulate.

After reading that you'll be allowed to adjust the wheel, I figured let's try PGR3 to see if these issues only exist in Forza2 demo due to lack of calibration. So I fired up good ole PGR3. Now the offcenter part was fixed and dead center was expected. The play existed about only about 30mins increments of a clock but more importantly even on both sides which is tolerable and realistic. So far, so good! right!?

Wrong. The lag in input and the wheels inability to respond to quick transitions reared their ugly heads right away. So after about 1:20mins of Forza2 and PGR3 for about 40mins, I put disassembled the wheel from the computer desk. I went looking for realism and ended up with a highly compromised solution which wanted me to adapt considerably. I don't think I'm ready for that.

I'll play with it some more this weekend but it'll likely be going back. To make up the disappointment, I'll use the money to do another trackday before selling the car. Can't beat that level of realism :grin:

[Phil]

I'm really not sure how it compares to the Logitech wheel that's came out alongside Gran Turismo 4 at the time, but perhaps it gets better as you adjust to it? Lag does sound very disturbing, so I'm not sure what getting used to would help - I just remember that when switching from controller to the Logitech wheel in Gran Turismo 4, it was quite difficult and different. After a couple of hours (or was it more like 30 minutes), it just felt right and I wouldn't want to play that game without it ever again.

[Arwin]

I'm really not sure how it compares to the Logitech wheel that's came out alongside Gran Turismo 4 at the time, but perhaps it gets better as you adjust to it? Lag does sound very disturbing, so I'm not sure what getting used to would help - I just remember that when switching from controller to the Logitech wheel in Gran Turismo 4, it was quite difficult and different. After a couple of hours (or was it more like 30 minutes), it just felt right and I wouldn't want to play that game without it ever again.

Yes, that's definitely one aspect I thought of too. However, since Robert also goes to the track, I excluded that possibility for now. I do know that games often have a different response to wheels and to pads - the latter often have a little bit more assist built in the code to compensate for the lack of precision. But since Robert is comparing to real-life, I don't think that difference is the main issue here. I think that the Forza team is just suffering from this being a first for them.

The GT4 / Logitech Driving Force Pro wheel that came with GT4 does seem of a different level, imho, since it supports 900 degree lock-to-lock. For nearly all cars that aren't pure racing or rally cars, that really improves the realism and makes the game a lot more accessible to non-gamers who are used to real driving.

The pedals of that wheel are still sub-par though (though more than good enough for me! Just take your shoes off, or you won't feel them ;) ).

If you really want decent pedals, then the Logitech G25 is the wheel to have. Though I think the pedals are a bit close together (because it also supports a clutch pedal), they feel great, much like the real thing.

Here's hoping that Microsoft will eventually support a plethora of wheels. GT:HD supports 4 wheel models directly, and many more are compatible (e.g. the G25 is compatible 100% with the DFPro, many of Logitech's older wheels are compatible with PS2 equivalents, and some other brands are compatible and work as well).

[iceberg187]

IIRC, they estimated the wheel having a 50 hour curve to getting in tune with the game. I think that is way too much but I got PGR3 down pat long before that. I got the wheel the day it came out. I've given Forza 2 the rundown with the wheel and it feels much better to me. There is a learning curve involved though.

[sevanig]

I have the MS wheel, playing forza 2 demo is just awesome!
I'm defiantly buying the game.
Have it setup in my car simulator i made from, wood + carseat + painted/felted.
setup on my 90" inch projector, it really is an awesome experience.
I drive with all assists off except ABS + braking line only , start with c class and get use to the track and how each car handles, RWD AWD FWD all behave how they should.

But my Fav car is defiantly the corvette z06, all that torque it just wants to go sideways and requires lots of opposite lock to control, its so much fun.

Thumbs up for the wheel for me. I cant wait for forza2 to come out...

[crazygambit]

I have the MS wheel, playing forza 2 demo is just awesome!
I'm defiantly buying the game.
Have it setup in my car simulator i made from, wood + carseat + painted/felted.
setup on my 90" inch projector, it really is an awesome experience.


:shock: Pictures please.

[sevanig]

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x216/sevani/IMGP2229.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x216/sevani/IMGP2228.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x216/sevani/IMGP2227.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x216/sevani/IMGP2226.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x216/sevani/IMGP2225.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x216/sevani/IMGP2224.jpg

just took the photos and uploaded hope this works

[TheChefO]

Have it setup in my car simulator i made from, wood + carseat + painted/felted...


I built a similar setup back in the day with my ps1 for NFS 1 .... :grin:

No feedback though... and only a 20" toshiba tv... :sad:


Come to think of it ... Diehard trilogy was awesome too in the city section with this setup.

[Phil]

just took the photos and uploaded hope this works

Nice!
Kind of reminds me of what a friend and me built for Gran Turismo 4...

That old Caterham se7en seat sure came in handy!

http://www.conceptics.ch/img.php?id=37

[RobertR1]

IIRC, they estimated the wheel having a 50 hour curve to getting in tune with the game. I think that is way too much but I got PGR3 down pat long before that. I got the wheel the day it came out. I've given Forza 2 the rundown with the wheel and it feels much better to me. There is a learning curve involved though.

Yeah, 50 hours is a bit much! I'll play around more this weekend and see how it goes. Controller isn't too bad :razz:

[Cheezdoodles]

50 hour learning curve would be for a person that has never driven a car in real life.

If you are an experienced driver (or better yet, semi experienced amateur racer) you should be able to adjust fine in a matter of a couple laps, as long as the physics engine is consistant. The rest of the time would just be to explore the exact limits of the cars, and how to "beat" the physics engine in turns.

[scooby_dooby]

Ya I had a similar experience last night when my wheel came in.

At first it was extremely dissapointing, the force feedback felt weak and sketchy, the control was damn near impossible, and the turning radius felt far too wide.

I began to get used to it though, the main thing was to fight the wheel less, and of course super super gentle on the throttle.

By the end of the night I managed a 53.9 best lap in an R2 car, and even managed to stay first with the C-6 Corvette for a WHOLE lap without using traction control! Certainly nothing great, but a big improvement on th 1:30+ times I began with.

I was really dissapointed at first, but by the end of the night I had a nice big smile on my face. :grin: I'm fairly sure that, if they give a good selection of adjustment sliders in the full game, I'll be a happy camper.

[SteveC]

Robert,

If you can do so easily I would return the wheel for a different one. This has been posted on the Forza website and seems to NOT be an issolated thing. The huge deadzone or off centered deadzone. I believe the retail version of Forza will provide some tunability to the wheel as far as increasing/decreasing the deadzone. I'm not sure if the game will allow you to re center the wheel though.

I want to get a wheel, but can't decide between the two available wheels for the 360.

[sevanig]

The MS wheel is the best wheel atm for the 360...

Yer the simulator was originally built for GT3 and the driving force steering wheel.
My dad bought the wheel cause he cant play games with the control pad (he has builders hands, + he had to get some tendons reattached after an accident, so he really sucked at games)

But I was extremely disappointed at the driving force steering wheel due to a design fault that denied u to change gear while the wheel was turned slightly (i know, i know, down shift before the corners) but now is fixed in the driving force pro model, but seriously there should of been a recall on that wheel!!

I'm on my second MS wheel the 1st one just stopped turning on :(
my new one actually centers properly :) but is a bit weaker on the feedback :(

[RobertR1]

Robert,

If you can do so easily I would return the wheel for a different one. This has been posted on the Forza website and seems to NOT be an issolated thing. The huge deadzone or off centered deadzone. I believe the retail version of Forza will provide some tunability to the wheel as far as increasing/decreasing the deadzone. I'm not sure if the game will allow you to re center the wheel though.

I want to get a wheel, but can't decide between the two available wheels for the 360.

Thanks steve just saw that. Gonna return this for a new one and hopefully that one will be good. I have no plans to take apart the wheel and manually calibrate as one of the DIY threads on there suggests. Too much work for me :)

[RobertR1]

Got down to the 52's now. Getting the hang of it. Just need to realize that fast inputs don't translate well.

Still the offcenter thing is quite annoying so I'll be getting a replacement this weekend.

[scooby_dooby]

Got down to the 52's now. Getting the hang of it. Just need to realize that fast inputs don't translate well.

Still the offcenter thing is quite annoying so I'll be getting a replacement this weekend.

Nice, I'm still stuck in the 53's, but I love driving with the wheel, the fun factor is just +10.

Here's my little setup, paid $113 CAD for the wheel, and $29 for the table from ikea, already had the chair. It works ok, the table definately moves a little, but it doesn't really bother me.
http://www.shawnblais.com/ForzaSetup.jpg

[zRifle1z]

Got down to the 52's now. Getting the hang of it. Just need to realize that fast inputs don't translate well.

Still the offcenter thing is quite annoying so I'll be getting a replacement this weekend.

I can only repeat what was said above about returning your wheel. I have no problems with dead space, and it responds very well to each turn of the wheel. Good luck on the replacement as the wheel makes this game very addicting.

[scooby_dooby]

51.96 w/ the wheel! New personal best, better than my best gamepad time. Still a little more prone to spinouts, but I pretty much have it down now. About a 2-3 day adjustment period, not too bad at all.

[RobertR1]

51.96 w/ the wheel! New personal best, better than my best gamepad time. Still a little more prone to spinouts, but I pretty much have it down now. About a 2-3 day adjustment period, not too bad at all.

You're coming into my thread and rubbing in laptimes!? OH HELL NO! wait till i get home.....

Btw, nice setup :) Need to figure that part out also. 50inch > 24inch! already sick of playing on the monitor.

[Iron Tiger]

Nice, I'm still stuck in the 53's, but I love driving with the wheel, the fun factor is just +10.

Here's my little setup, paid $113 CAD for the wheel, and $29 for the table from ikea, already had the chair. It works ok, the table definately moves a little, but it doesn't really bother me.I've been looking for something like that table for years! I just found it on Ikea's site and ordered one for myself. Costs more to ship the thing than to buy it, but it's still not a bad price, and it should ser my needs well. My DFP's gonna get a lot more use now!

[RobertR1]

I've been looking for something like that table for years! I just found it on Ikea's site and ordered one for myself. Costs more to ship the thing than to buy it, but it's still not a bad price, and it should ser my needs well. My DFP's gonna get a lot more use now!

Would you or scooby please give me the link. I need one also :)

[Cheezdoodles]

i want the table aswell

[scooby_dooby]

I've been looking for something like that table for years! I just found it on Ikea's site and ordered one for myself. Costs more to ship the thing than to buy it, but it's still not a bad price, and it should ser my needs well. My DFP's gonna get a lot more use now!

Ok, but be prewarned it's not the most stable thing in the world, does have a little give to it. But, if you drive with 2 hands on the wheel it's great, since I drive manual it's perfect.

To everyone else, it's RIAN at IKEA, should be able to find it on their website easily enough. :cool:

[scooby_dooby]

While I'm here, everyone with the wheel needs to do this.

Coolest mod ever.
http://forums.forzamotorsport.net/forums/post/110726.aspx

Makes the brakes so much more realistic. 3/4" is the perfect thickness for the brake pedal, resistance at 30% and full brake with a hard press.

I also put a 1/2" piece under the gas pedal, perfect, a little resistance just at 100% throttle. I used a 1/2mousepad rather than a handrest(cheaper), cut one 1/2" piece and then a few 1/4" strips, taped it together to make a 3/4" piece.

Drove some laps without ABS, works like a dream, never locked up once.

[Iron Tiger]

I received and assembled my RIAN table today, and what's not properly conveyed by the photos posted here (unless you've got an MS wheel to guage it by) or on the Ikea site is just how tiny the thing is. It's barely high enough to get over my knees while seated, and I was hoping to be able to use it as a tray for my keyboard and mouse (when not racing), but the top's not big enough to put my keyboard on alone. Scaled up 20%, this would have been a perfect multi-function table, but now I'm not even sure if it'll work for my racing/gaming. Just a note to others looking to buy one.

[Asher]

I got a "DAVE" laptop table from ikea...adjustable height, works great.

Only real problem is the pedals need to be pushed closer than I'd like due to the pillar of the table being in the middle.

[scooby_dooby]

I received and assembled my RIAN table today, and what's not properly conveyed by the photos posted here (unless you've got an MS wheel to guage it by) or on the Ikea site is just how tiny the thing is. It's barely high enough to get over my knees while seated, and I was hoping to be able to use it as a tray for my keyboard and mouse (when not racing), but the top's not big enough to put my keyboard on alone. Scaled up 20%, this would have been a perfect multi-function table, but now I'm not even sure if it'll work for my racing/gaming. Just a note to others looking to buy one.

Well the dimensions were posted on the website!

It is a little small though, just tall enough for me, I'm around 6ft. I like it though, it fits nicely tucked away in teh corner.

[Iron Tiger]

Well the dimensions were posted on the website!

It is a little small though, just tall enough for me, I'm around 6ft. I like it though, it fits nicely tucked away in teh corner.I know. But when I saw the dimensions on the site, I couldn't believe it was for the assembled table. I thought it might be some weird Swedish custom to post the dimensions of the box that the unassembled product ships in.

[RobertR1]

Just like to go on record and state that I was able to re-assemble the wheel and all accessories back into the box by trail and error. Yes, I'm quite proud of this!!! :)

[infinity4]

just wondering, is 5 degree tilting (at default orientation) to either side common???

[scooby_dooby]

just wondering, is 5 degree tilting (at default orientation) to either side common???

Mine has a little left-tilt at default, doesn't seem to affect the driving in-game though.

[Cheezdoodles]

just wondering, is 5 degree tilting (at default orientation) to either side common???

I'm not sure if this is remotely relevant to what your asking, but in Real life cars, aspecially on the cheaper (or older) ones its not uncommon for up to 5cm tilt in either direction before the wheels start to turn