View Full Version : Nintendo in a position to launch an xbox360/ps3 outperformer?
booomups
11-May-2007, 23:47
With the Wii beeing the succes that it is, 1080p and general HD monitors coming down in price and endless criticism of 360/ps3 regarding theire actual power compared to the current PC GPU's and CPU's (among other things)...
wouldn't it be fun/reasonable for nintendo to launch a High resolution oriented sony/microsoft outperformer? Maybe in 1-3 years before any of the competition is considering an successor.
with AMD/IBM (same as with the Wii) as hardware partner and avoiding some of the shortcomings or mistakes that the competition has done, Nintendo could actually win over a big percentage of the enthusiast market and maybe even get some of the newly joined Wii buyers (who yet would not consider buying ps3/60) to take a serious look at the new Nintendo offering.
I am sure that developer support would be good to great, since Nintendo won a lot of hearts and marketingnumbergames with the Wii.
if there is already a discussion going on regarding this "Idea", please direct me to it.
Rangers
12-May-2007, 00:05
No. :lol:
Seriously though, no.
Why would they? Wii is already selling more than they can manufactore.
Besides, Nintendo doesn't like expensive hardware.
I mean, both Sony and MS have already lost billions this go round. Even the PS2 only net profited Sony 2 billion in it's lifetime. High end hardware is a real cost killer.
Cheezdoodles
12-May-2007, 02:09
Besides, Nintendo doesn't like expensive hardware.
Wait a year or two and it wouldn't really be that expensive to make something significantly powerful than the PS3\X360.
I mean, both Sony and MS have already lost billions this go round. Even the PS2 only net profited Sony 2 billion in it's lifetime. High end hardware is a real cost killer.
You got a source for that? Gamelisences alone (which should be accredited the PS2) should be more than that.
Nintendo will keep its successful route of evolutionizing their h/w. They've been doing it to the Gameboy and finally saw that doing so is very sucessful instead of playing the power game such as Sony and MS. The early success of the Wii only cements that train of thought.
booomups
12-May-2007, 03:05
Nintendo will keep its successful route of evolutionizing their h/w. They've been doing it to the Gameboy and finally saw that doing so is very sucessful instead of playing the power game such as Sony and MS. The early success of the Wii only cements that train of thought.
the success of the Wii can certainly be mainly accredited to the controller and the "fun" games that it allowes, together with good marketing. Secondary the lower price then the competition and the compact/silent form of the device.
I just dont see the reason for Nintendo not even trying to reach and claim the HD (Higher res then 640*480) crowd, since it is a group poised to grow immensly with the ever sinking prices of small and big TV's.
Maybe we will see a new console as soon as Nintendo wants to establish a completly new or improved input device.
Sounds like someone still hasn't accepted Nintendo's vision. :wink:
I personally think Nintendo will gather the appropriate funds thanks to Wii's success to launch a very powerful console to compete strongly the next PS and XBOX
Nintendo has always had tons of cash...
Rangers
12-May-2007, 05:00
Wait a year or two and it wouldn't really be that expensive to make something significantly powerful than the PS3\X360.
You got a source for that? Gamelisences alone (which should be accredited the PS2) should be more than that.
I believe it was something that some posters at vghartz stated. I cant verify it, but I believe they derived it by simply adding up Sony's quarterly game division profits/losses over the PS2's life.
booomups
12-May-2007, 05:39
Sounds like someone still hasn't accepted Nintendo's vision. :wink:
guess so... care to enlighten the poor bast***?
In a position? Yes. Will they do it? No. They go for profit, not for power. And by that measure, their consoles could never outperform the offerings from Sony or MS.
WHY?
The N is make money ,they make less product than the customer demand, even they are not able to introduce new colors, sot it mean there is no chance for a new end user configuration.
The x2 elite is on the market because they sell less console than the target,and with the segmantation they want to get more sales/mpre income.
But for the N?That abosultly not make sense from financial standpoint.Thay can possibly sell a few million unit,but right now they can sell any unit that they can produce.
infinity4
12-May-2007, 12:55
tell me one good reason why nintendo would shot themselves in their foot ;)
Cheezdoodles
12-May-2007, 12:57
In a position? Yes. Will they do it? No. They go for profit, not for power. And by that measure, their consoles could never outperform the offerings from Sony or MS.
If you launch it later, you can outperform and still sell it at a profit for a reasonable price. Topic creator is asking about launching something within a year or two, not something to compete with the Xbox 720 or the PS4.
Hardware doubles in power every 18 months compared to price..
AlStrong
12-May-2007, 13:24
And segregate the development cycle so soon? Hardly any titles have come out for the Wii. Developers would have to choose between targeting different hardware specs, exactly what console developers are trying to avoid in PC land. If it's only for a resolution bump, ah... no. What does Nintendo have to gain by doing it so soon?
It also depends on how they design the chips too. Transistor shrinks are not trivial, as AMD has so recently demonstrated with their 65nm Brisbane.
booomups
12-May-2007, 23:22
And segregate the development cycle so soon? Hardly any titles have come out for the Wii. Developers would have to choose between targeting different hardware specs, exactly what console developers are trying to avoid in PC land. If it's only for a resolution bump, ah... no. What does Nintendo have to gain by doing it so soon?
It also depends on how they design the chips too. Transistor shrinks are not trivial, as AMD has so recently demonstrated with their 65nm Brisbane.
I dont understand why you mention transistor shrinks, but regarding what Nintendo would have to gain: a very big part of those who bought and will buy 360 or ps3, if they get the right kind of games for the system.
If the nintendo machine would allow high antialaising on 720p or high framerates on 1080p, together with processor power double or tripple then the competition (what does not seem hard to realise), this would become the system of choice for hd tv owners, just as the Wii currently and in the future will be the favorite for standard TV's.
I think these two consoles could exist at the same time with each a bigger software support then the competition.
And I would love for AMD to be the main hardware design supplyer. They certainly could use the money and publicity.
LogisticX
13-May-2007, 00:13
It's not gonna happen.
Do you see Nintendo releasing a new handheld anytime soon in order to "trump" the PSP? Not unless sales figures reverse.
Why can't you accept this?
booomups
13-May-2007, 00:17
It's not gonna happen.
Do you see Nintendo releasing a new handheld anytime soon in order to "trump" the PSP? Not unless sales figures reverse.
Why can't you accept this?
offcourse i can accept it, but since I am looking for good arguments, like the one you have just given, I have to ponder beyond a simple "they won't".
edit: not that the other members haven't given reasonings, I just still don't see enough reason for Nintendo not to try getting into an infight with Sony and MS, or maybe they intentionally avoid doing anything alike the competition and be the king in a field they create on their own, giving them lot s of points for style.
PatrickL
13-May-2007, 06:18
But they are fighting with MS and Sony, and they are wining. What yur problem is that you don't understand they have the choice to fight with their own weapons instead of trying to compete with a copy.
You seriously expect Nintendo to launch an other console to compete with their own console while they are the ones successful ?
I agee with Patrick. Why launch something newer especially so soon when they dont have too since they already have a succesful new product in the market that brings lots of money?
Why invest on something else when there is no need to? And especially invest to make a product that mimicks others, doesnt guarantee to increase profits even further than what Wii does, and also probably risks Wii's or their current business model's course that seems to be so efficient?
edit: I dont think we have to be so harsh to booomups though. He just made a thought and asked, He doesnt seem that close minded on the issue.
tongue_of_colicab
13-May-2007, 09:00
Why would they? the n64 and GC only showed that nintendo wont be the first choice if it comes to powerfull consoles. So why build another one? why do you think they build the wii? because if they just released another power focused console that would end up the same as n64 and gc.
Why would nintendo drop the good selling wii on wich they make alot of money and release a console wich will be at the same price as the competition at best, wont have such a gigantic differance in gfx and maybe most important of all, has no game libary at all. You might have the edge in gfx, but nobody's going to buy a console with only slightly better gfx and no game libary in comparison to the x360 and ps3 that will have big libaries by then.
booomups
13-May-2007, 11:15
Thanks for the answers, to me now it will be fun to see if Nintendo lunches their successor before or after Microsoft, since sony already declared that the ps3 will be staying for a longer time.
Cheezdoodles
13-May-2007, 12:50
I agee with Patrick. Why launch something newer especially so soon when they dont have too since they already have a succesful new product in the market that brings lots of money?
From a business perspective? To potentially make even more money...
PatrickL
13-May-2007, 14:56
From a business perspective? To potentially make even more money...
About zero chance to make money that way. Just for the fun let guess: when do you think that Nintendo could sell a console as powerful as the 360/PS3 at 250 € and still makes money on each console ? 2010 2011 ?
Just for the fun let guess: when do you think that Nintendo could sell a console as powerful as the 360/PS3 at 250 € and still makes money on each console ? 2010 2011 ?
I would say for Xbox360 around 2009 and for PS3 around 2010 depending on the infrastructure for Blu-ray drives improving.
I would say for Xbox360 around 2009 and for PS3 around 2010 depending on the infrastructure for Blu-ray drives improving.
Oh,c'mon.The price reduction need sales volume.Probably the sony and the m$ will sell at 2009 the consoles that they produce right now .
This is the issue probably at the m$.How they can decrease the cost of the console that was produced at 2006?(at least the major components)
So,the price redution will mean BIG losses.
Remember : From the last generation only the sony was able to made major design change in the ps2(and the N with the nds), the N and the M$ was sticked strictly the original design (original design = the major and most costly components).For the xb2 an other barrier is the bad quality rate.Bad customer quality mean bad production quality, so possibly they need 10-20 % more cpu or memory chip or motherboard to be able to run the production.And this quality rate is usualy flucutate,so they have to keep a big inventory from many PO, and that will scraped if they do a major design change.
Shifty Geezer
13-May-2007, 15:45
Remember : From the last generation only the sony was able to made major design change in the ps2(and the N with the nds), the N and the M$ was sticked strictly the original design (original design = the major and most costly components).MS were stuck with the design due to licensing issues. Nintendo obviously felt no need for a redesign. As long as they're making money on the hardware, it doesn't matter. Neither MS or Nintendo were forced into the same design for 5 years because they were stuck with parts pressed 3 years earlier! You'd be a crazy mad company to produce that much stock without knwoing you'll be able to sell it on. No-one's going to make 50 million CPUs and GPU in the first year and then spend 5 years putting them into consoles!
What can Nintendo do for an encore for the Wii?
A refined wand?
Will the casual gamers drawn in by the novelty be drawn in again?
Upgraded graphics isn't going to matter to a lot of Wii users who are mostly playing Wii Sports, is it?
Plus is Mario going to look a lot better in 1080p?
From a business perspective? To potentially make even more money...
thats only the surface though. There are so many things involved (briefly described in my post) that from a business perspective it's not a very good decision since it doesnt quarantee it wll bring more money and at the same time it may potentially affect negatively an already succesful business model used with Wii
Shifty Geezer
13-May-2007, 17:37
A refined wand?Interesting point. How good is the wand? At the beginning there were definitely issues about accuracy, but it was early days with early software. Looking at later titles, I don't hear that things have improved any amount, such as Tiger Woods registering false swings, swinging forwards on the up-stroke.
Is the Wiimote starting to mature as an input device, or is there definite potential in a more accurate input method? Could Nintendo even produce such a device within their price-range (if the current Wiimote isn't)? :???:
I have a feeling that when the next generation consoles are released in 5 or more years time Nintendo's Wii successor will be considered as being on par or less powerful than the PS3 or Xbox360.
It is unlikely that Nintendo will change its philosophy of NOT trying to out-spec the competition - Nintendo learned that lesson ever since the N64 was released and could be considered as a reason why Sony finally went off on its own and created its own console.
Trying to out spec the competition probably cost Sega the hardware race for good. Nintendo make games for its own hardware and that is their primary source of income.
OK so we are not entirely talking about out spec'ing the competition but trying to out flank the competition by having a Wii HD in a few years is only going to reduce profits by segmenting the Wii user base and developer support.
So... even if Nintendo could do it or wanted to do it, Nintendo would be absolutely crazy to do it.
PatrickL
13-May-2007, 18:10
More people should have a good read: http://www.blueoceanstrategy.com/
The book is easy to understand. The hard part is to apply it as usual :)
Considering the PS2 is back in the lead, having overtaken Wii in the March 2007 console sales, I think Nintendo would be wiser to use technological advances to reduce cost and keep the spec the same to increase the user base.
http://www.joystiq.com/2007/04/19/npd-march-belongs-to-ds-ps2/
Consoles
* Nintendo DS: 508K
* Sony PlayStation 2: 280K
* Nintendo Wii: 259K (2.1 million total)
* Microsoft Xbox 360: 199K (5.3 million total)
* Sony PSP: 180k
* Nintendo Game Boy Advance: 148K
* Sony PlayStation 3: 130K (1.2 million total)
* Nintendo Gamecube: 22K
* Microsoft Xbox: N/A
Games
* God of War II (PS2): 833K
* Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon: Advanced Warfighter 2 (Xbox 360): 394K
* Guitar Hero II w/guitar (Xbox 360):291K
* Wii Play w/remote (Wii): 273K
* Motorstorm (PS3): 199K
* Diddy Kong Racing (DS): 189K
* Spectrobes (DS): 165K
* Major League Baseball 2K7 (Xbox 360): 165K
* MLB '07: The Show (PS2): 164K
* Def Jam Icon (Xbox 360): 148K
Magnum PI
13-May-2007, 19:32
nintendo already launched an xbox360/ps3 outperformer, it's called the wii.
they will certainly launch another console, other than that we don't know much about that, do we ?
i'm sure nintendo themselves don't know precisely.
PatrickL
13-May-2007, 19:33
You know, USA is not the only market :)
Magnum PI
13-May-2007, 19:51
i'm european and i think nintendo is dominating sales at a worldwide scale.
Dr Evil
13-May-2007, 19:56
i'm european and i think nintendo is dominating sales at a worldwide scale.
PatrickL's post was probably directed to SPM.
Magnum PI
13-May-2007, 20:05
now you know i'm european AND stupid
Magnum PI
13-May-2007, 20:07
Considering the PS2 is back in the lead, having overtaken Wii in the March 2007 console sales,
back in the lead ???
unless there is a gods of war 2 launch every month don't expect this to become a trend.
PatrickL
13-May-2007, 20:10
PatrickL's post was probably directed to SPM.
Yes sorry for the confusion. :oops:
You know, USA is not the only market :)
back in the lead ???
unless there is a gods of war 2 launch every month don't expect this to become a trend.
Maybe, but my point still stands. PS2 is much less sophisticated that the NG consoles but is still capable of leading the US market because it is cheap and has a big user base. The same is true of DS versus PSP, and Wii in relation to price.
Nintendo would be silly to launch a new console or change it's spec now. Much smarter to use technological advance to cut cost, and use the time to build up a huge user base.
I have a feeling that when the next generation consoles are released in 5 or more years time Nintendo's Wii successor will be considered as being on par or less powerful than the PS3 or Xbox360.
It is unlikely that Nintendo will change its philosophy of NOT trying to out-spec the competition - Nintendo learned that lesson ever since the N64 was released and could be considered as a reason why Sony finally went off on its own and created its own console.
Not trying to out spec the competition and constantly being a generation or more behind are two very different things though. GC certainly wasn't behind its competition graphically.
I suppose wether Nintendo will stay a generation (or a little less) behind depends on how things turn out with Wii. As well as what the market is like closer to the time of release.
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