images from around the world.

[epicstruggle]

Ok please read this post before you post. I would like to start a thread where we post pics from the war in iraq, protests/reactions from around the world, and anything relating to the current conflict.

Please do not post graphic images. that includes the dead, mutalated bodies, and anything else that is just plain not acceptable to be viewed by minors.

I would like to see the types of images that are being shown around the world. Whats the newspapers showing in sweden, compared to what you might see here in the states. Id like to see what the differences in images are. Please include where you got the images from and any relavent info about the pic.

Please stay on topic and remember to not post extremely graphic images.

thanks

[epicstruggle]

http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/images/2003032904800101.jpg
A British doctor attending on a six-year-old Iraqi boy, who sustained shrapnel wounds near Basra, on Friday.

source:http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/stories/2003032904800100.htm

[CosmoKramer]

You can see how grateful that kid is over his newfound freedom. It is blessed by god.

[MrsSkywalker]

You can see how grateful that kid is over his newfound freedom. It is blessed by god.

His own government, the ones most likely responsible for said shrapnel, would have let him die. Ask his mother how blessed she thinks she is to have the UK dr. saving her son's life.

[CosmoKramer]

His own government, the ones most likely responsible for said shrapnel, would have let him die. Ask his mother how blessed she thinks she is to have the UK dr. saving her son's life.

Following that logic: A man comes into your house and shoots your kid in the belly region. That's ok though since he brought a doctor with him. You feel blessed by God.

Detachment from reality.

[MrsSkywalker]

Following that logic: A man comes into your house and shoots your kid in the belly region. That's ok though since he brought a doctor with him. You feel blessed by God.

Detachment from reality.

No. That does not follow the same logic at all. My home is not run by a dictator who kills his own people on a whim. The man breaking into my house is not breaking in to liberate me from said dictatorship. And the "ruler" of my home did not cause injury to my kid then leave him to die.

Delusions of intellect.

[pascal]

The largest brazilian site (many millions pages per day): http://home.img.uol.com.br/030329girl.jpgIraq people suferring

[CosmoKramer]

And the "ruler" of my home did not cause injury to my kid then leave him to die.

That's nothing but speculation. I want you to produce solid evidence that:
i) That kid was hurt by shrapnel from an Iraqi grenade
ii) That the above was deliberate
iii) That the Iraqi civil services were able to bring the kid to hospital but refused

Regardless of whom shot the grenade would you agree that the reason grenades are fired in the first place is because of the state of war? Who are the invaders?

[Sabastian]

http://i.timeinc.net/time/cartoons/20030328/3.jpg

[/url]

[Sabastian]

http://mirror.canada.com/national/features/iraq/photo/injured.jpg

Mar. 26 - U.S. Marine Lance Cpl. Marcco Ware carries an injured Iraqi soldier who was shot three times during an attempted ambush. AP Photo/John Makely

[Sabastian]

http://mirror.canada.com/national/features/iraq/photo/food.jpg

Mar. 27 - Soldiers of the British Army's Light Infantry and 2nd Royal Tank Regiment distribute aid and food packages to local people in Az Zubayr near Basra, southern Iraq. AP Photo/Brian Roberts

[Vince]

Regardless of whom shot the grenade would you agree that the reason grenades are fired in the first place is because of the state of war? Who are the invaders?

Perhaps if Saddam would have followed UNSC 671 and the other 16 resolutions - we wouldn't have been forced into this.


Cosmo;

So, let me get this strait. If your running a Meth-lab in your basement and are selling it to kids and your neighbor found out; he told you to get rid of the Lab immediatly or he'll call the police. So, you refuse and he calls... 12 years later. Next thing you know, SWAT blows off your door and comes charging into your house. You retreat to the bathroom, unbeknownst to them, with your 6 month old kid and slam the door shut. As SWAT approaches you start randomly shooting out the door. SWAT breaches the door and in the CQB an unidentified shot (from either party, as it's irrelevent) hit the child. As soon as the dealer is dead, SWATE rushes in and saves the kids life.

So, your telling me it's SWATs (or society at large's) fault that the kid was injured? If anything SWAT should be commended for removing the treat to the community, and freeing that child to live a life outside the realm of the methhead - a life that the child had no control over, a life that was unable to defend itself, a life that society had to protect.

I* happen to think the fault is as follow:

(a) Meth-dealer's fault for having a Meth-Lab
(b) Meth-dealer's fault for using the kid as a shield
(c) Meth-dealer's fault for even raising a kid in that enviroment

* These statements and ideologies are are all IMHO and contain no subliminal or otherwise manipulative implications that are intended to force others into complience with said ideologies.

[Vince]

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/interactive/world/0303/gallery.iraq.war.0329/warfare.07.ap.jpg

An Iraqi Kurdish militia fighter raises a Kurdistan Democratic Party flag near the Kurdish-controlled town of Erbil during a move toward the oil center of Kirkuk in northern Iraq on Saturday. Striking at Islamic militant camps, U.S. forces and Kurdish fighters were shaping their new northern front against Saddam Hussein's army Saturday, which apparently pulled back along the main road to Kirkuk.

[Vince]

http://i.cnn.net/cnn/interactive/world/0303/gallery.iraq.war.0328/warfare.05.ap.jpg

A British soldier from 17 Port Maritime sits on a huge pile of water containers as the first Humanitarian aid ship, the Sir Galahad, docks in the Iraqi Port of Umm Qasr on Friday

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/interactive/world/0303/gallery.iraq.war.0329/refugees.01.ap.jpg

An Iraqi woman gestures as she flees a smoke-shrouded Basra in southern Iraq on Saturday.

[Sxotty]

http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2003/03/29/international/29cnd-baby.jpg

A marine medic held a 4-year-old girl after her mother was killed by Iraqi crossfire near Rifa, American officers said.

NYTIMES
http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/promos/homepage/28cnd-funeral-moth.jpg
Woman crying at funeral

[epicstruggle]

http://www.msnbc.com/c/0/146/178/10x7/030328_war_05.jpgsource:msnbc.

Col, Dunken Robertson of British 4 General Support Regiment Medics gives medical attention to an Iraqi child as British troops of 187 Squadron, 23 Pioneer Regiment, hand out food and fresh water to residents of a village south of Basra in southern Iraq on Thursday

[CosmoKramer]

Howcome they need medical attention? Howcome they suddenly need water shipped in?

[DemoCoder]

How come Saddam turned off the water to Basra 5 days before the war started? How come Saddam showered food and goodies from the Oil for Food program on the Sunni minority/Tikrit tribe in Bagdad and the Baath party, but started the Shittes in the South?

People in Basra and Umm Qasr were impoverished before the war started, mainy due to Saddam's rule.

[epicstruggle]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/39018000/jpg/_39018073_us_afp_300.jpg
source bbc.co.uk

In the US, police arrested about 150 people who staged a "die-in" protest on New York's 5th Avenue

[Sxotty]

What is the fuzzy thing on her back? Some fairy wings or what?

[Sabastian]

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/interactive/world/0303/gallery.iraq.war.0330/04.warfare.ap.jpg

Kurdish militiamen flash victory signs as they drive into an area abandoned by retreating Iraqi troops in northern Iraq.

[Sabastian]

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/interactive/world/0303/gallery.iraq.war.0330/01.reaction.ap.jpg


A South Korean man wears an antiwar mask and a headband which reads "struggle" at a protest rally held by labor unions in a park in Seoul, South Korea.

[Sabastian]

http://www.msnbc.com/c/0/146/640/10x7/030330_war_new07.jpg

Low five
A U.S. Army military intelligence officer gets "five" from a child after questioning Iraqi bedouins Sunday in the desert of central Iraq. The bedouins welcomed the American soldiers with white flags.

[Sabastian]

http://www.msnbc.com/c/0/146/178/10x7/030328_war_09.jpg

[Sxotty]

Dude their packs are so freakin big, I saw some chick who was a marine and it looked like the pack weighed as much as she did.

[epicstruggle]

http://www.msnbc.com/c/0/146/640/inline/030330_war_02.jpgsource msnbc.

Knock knock. . .

U.S. Marines from the 2nd Battalion 8th Regiment search a home for weapons as they attempt to secure a supply route to Baghdad on Sunday in An Nasiriyah.

[epicstruggle]

http://www.etaiwannews.com/news_images/20030331/P01-MDF34980-0331.jpg
source:etaiwannews.com

A wounded Iraqi girl is treated by U.S. marines in central Iraq March 29, 2003. Confused front line crossfire ripped apart an Iraqi family on Saturday after local soldiers appeared to force civilians towards U.S. marines positions. The four-year old girl, blood streaming from an eye wound, was screaming for her dead mother, while her father, shot in a leg, begged to be freed from the plastic wrist cuffs slapped on him by U.S. marines, so he could hug his other terrified daughter. (AP)

[pascal]

http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2003/03/31/3chung.jpgIraqis flee Basra across one of the city's bridges manned by British soldiers.
Photo: Dan Chung

[pascal]

Stop the war demonstration in London, march 22: http://www.stopwar.lunarpages.com/photos/iraq22marpano.jpg

[epicstruggle]

what flag is that being flown in the last 3rd of the pic. it has green and white stripes and a white crescent and star. Anyone know?

later

[Humus]

http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/0303/31/soldatradd140.jpg

http://www.aftonbladet.se

[Sxotty]

Yo humus you have to give us some info bro, like what is the deal with that picture, since I can't read the newspapaer associated with it (ignorant americans I know :) don't speak enough languages) Well I speak a little french spanish and a teeny bit of vietnamese but nothing else.

[Crusher]

what flag is that being flown in the last 3rd of the pic. it has green and white stripes and a white crescent and star. Anyone know?

Pakistani/Kashmiri

http://www.fotw.ca/flags/pk-azkas.html

[Heathen]

http://static.sky.com/images/pictures/1135648.jpg

The price of freedom as the first British dead are returned home.

http://static.sky.com/images/pictures/1135920.jpg

Dangerous sheep?

http://static.sky.com/images/pictures/1135911.jpg

Not all war is hell. RAF Crews on R&R.

[epicstruggle]

what flag is that being flown in the last 3rd of the pic. it has green and white stripes and a white crescent and star. Anyone know?

Pakistani/Kashmiri

http://www.fotw.ca/flags/pk-azkas.html

Thank you Crusher, you dont know how much time I spent looking for that info. It was driving me crazy, looking at the info on that page, my search terms would have never worked.

thanks again!
later,

[epicstruggle]

http://www.msnbc.com/c/0/146/819/10x7/030331_iraqss11a_05.jpg
source:msnbc

Caught in the cross-fire
U.S. Army soldiers from A Company, 3rd Battalion, 7th Infantry Regiment approach an injured woman who was caught in the cross-fire with Iraqi forces over the Euphrates River when the U.S. Army seized a bridge in Hindiyah, Iraq, on Monday. The Army's Task Force 4-64, part of the 3rd Infantry Division, took the strategic bridge in its move north toward Baghdad. The woman, who was near a dead civilian man, was bleeding and had apparently been shot in the buttock.

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/interactive/world/0303/gallery.iraq.war.0331/warfare.8.ap.jpg
source:cnn

U.S. Army medics evacuate an injured woman who was caught in the crossfire between American and Iraqi forces over the Euphrates River when the Army seized a bridge in Hindiyah, Iraq

the 2 pictures are of the same woman. the man in the above picture was killed before help could be brought.

later,

[pascal]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/39036000/jpg/_39036181_gal_pow_ap_300.jpgOn Monday, the International Red Cross for the first time visited Iraqi prisoners, but did not comment on their condition.

[Humus]

Yo humus you have to give us some info bro, like what is the deal with that picture, since I can't read the newspapaer associated with it (ignorant americans I know :) don't speak enough languages) Well I speak a little french spanish and a teeny bit of vietnamese but nothing else.

Frankly, I didn't quite get the deal with the picture myself when I quickly read some war story yesterday. Today I can't find the story :/

[Sabastian]

http://www.msnbc.com/c/0/147/104/10x7/030401_war_new05.jpg

Heavily armed
Iraqi fighters display their guns in al-Kefel, between the farming town of Hilla and the city of Najaf on Tuesday. The two at right are wearing what appear to be gas masks.

[Sabastian]

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/SPECIALS/2003/iraq/interactive/turnley.gallery/DSC_0138.jpg

The people in Kifre are close to the front lines of the war -- 120 miles north of Baghdad -- but Turnley said many feel the war has going better for the Kurds than expected. (Photo by David Turnley/CNN)

[antlers]

The war is clearly the United States' responsibility. There were other ways to respond to the threat posed by Saddam's supposed WMD (funny they haven't found of those yet, by the way). We were in no way obligated to respond to Iraq's violation of UN resolutions with an invasion (we were already responding with sanctions, no-fly zones, intrusive inspections, and other means). The United States picked the time, the location, and the scale of the armed conflict. Even if you are in favor of the war, at least be honest about that.

We can only hope that in time the benefits to the U.S. and the Iraqi people will outweigh the costs.

[pascal]

Man with all his family killed :( http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/39038000/jpg/_39038159_man203bodyafp.jpgAt least 11 members of the same family - mostly children - have been killed in a coalition air strike on a residential district in central Iraq, western news reports say.

[Sabastian]

Poor sole..... only if Saddam had been more caring for his own people swallowed his pride and left the country. But we can't get any pictures of the estimated millions of families that were destroyed by Saddams regime can we?

[pascal]

Poor sole..... only if Saddam had been more caring for his own people swallowed his pride and left the country. But we can't get any pictures of the estimated millions of families that were destroyed by Saddams regime can we?No but we can get the picture of the killed by US. Very liberating.

[Sxotty]

It sure is liberating, you can get pictures of those killed by the US on US news stations, it is certainly nice to be from a country that is not a hell hole with propaganda being the only medium of communication.

[pascal]

It sure is liberating, you can get pictures of those killed by the US on US news stations, it is certainly nice to be from a country that is not a hell hole with propaganda being the only medium of communication.This is true!!! From CNN:
http://i.cnn.net/cnn/2003/WORLD/meast/04/01/sprj.irq.war.main/vert.bodies.ap.jpgKarem Mohammed weeps Tuesday over the bodies of his family, including his six children, his wife, two brothers, mother and father in Al Hillah, Iraq, 74 miles south of Baghdad.
Do you have a popcorn?

[Sabastian]

Poor sole..... only if Saddam had been more caring for his own people swallowed his pride and left the country. But we can't get any pictures of the estimated millions of families that were destroyed by Saddams regime can we?No but we can get the picture of the killed by US. Very liberating.

Funny how you must attack the US at every turn on this. You f*cking hypocrite. When the US is responsible for something you crucify them when it is someone else you are mostly ... indifferent. Its all attached to your political bias Pascal, isn't it?

We also can't have the pictures of all the people that would have died at the hands of Saddam in the future can we? To point out this one poor sole as if the US did it on purpose. Lets talk about the millions of people of Iraq whom died under Saddams regime intensionally. You seem to make some sort of pathetic moral equivalence between the millions of people whom have died under his rule and the hundreds of civilians that will die in the Liberation of Iraq. Further the deaths of civilians is being avoided as much as possible by the US and UK the same cannot be said about Saddams efforts.

You ignore the atrocities committed by Saddam and focus on the liberators of Iraq to the point where you are suggesting they are worse and that the Iraqi people would be better off under Saddam.

Now lets see you tear a rip out of Saddams oppressive regime and point out all the wrongs committed by him. You won't though because you think the Iraqi were better off with him or what? lol ... hypocrisy. :roll:

[Joe DeFuria]

http://i.cnn.net/cnn/2003/WORLD/meast/04/01/sprj.irq.war.main/vert.lynch.ap.jpg

"The Pentagon confirmed the rescue of Army Pfc. Jessica Lynch, who was listed as missing during combat near Nasiriya on March 23. "

[Sabastian]

That is .... amaising, good news indeed. Going to have to check out the news now.

L8r

[Vince]

Do you have a popcorn?

Hey Pascal, since Cosmo won't; will you answer my question from page 1?

I'll repost it here for ya:

So, let me get this strait. If your running a Meth-lab in your basement and are selling it to kids and your neighbor found out; he told you to get rid of the Lab immediatly or he'll call the police. So, you refuse and he calls... For the next 12 years, a negotiator is talking to the Meth dealer on the phone - to no avail. Next thing you know, SWAT blows off your door and comes charging into your house. You retreat to the bathroom, unbeknownst to them, with your 6 month old kid and slam the door shut. As SWAT approaches you start randomly shooting out the door. SWAT breaches the door and in the CQB an unidentified shot (from either party, as it's irrelevent) hit the child. As soon as the dealer is dead, SWAT rushes in and saves the kids life.

So, your telling me it's SWATs (or society at large's) fault that the kid was injured? If anything SWAT should be commended for removing the treat to the community, and freeing that child to live a life outside the realm of the methhead - a life that the child had no control over, a life that was unable to defend itself, a life that society had to protect.

I* happen to think the fault is as follow:

(a) Meth-dealer's fault for having a Meth-Lab
(b) Meth-dealer's fault for using the kid as a shield
(c) Meth-dealer's fault for even raising a kid in that enviroment

So, explain to me again how it's SWATs (or the entity whose situation parallels SWATs) fault. Oh, right, your just being a jerk... how dumb of me.

[pascal]

Funny how you must attack the US at every turn on this. You f*cking hypocrite. When the US is responsible for something you crucify them when it is someone else you are mostly ... indifferent. Its all attached to your political bias Pascal, isn't it?
What do you know about me? Is this about me or the war?
This is what I call a VERY DIRECT PERSONALL INSULT.

I am not indifferent. Nobody said that Sadam is a saint here. I was showing a picture and YOU come with comments then I had to react.


We also can't have the pictures of all the people that would have died at the hands of Saddam in the future can we? To point out this one poor sole as if the US did it on purpose. Lets talk about the millions of people of Iraq whom died under Saddams regime intensionally. You seem to make some sort of pathetic moral equivalence between the millions of people whom have died under his rule and the hundreds of civilians that will die in the Liberation of Iraq. Further the deaths of civilians is being avoided as much as possible by the US and UK the same cannot be said about Saddams efforts.
No I dont do any moral equivalence. You are completelly wrong.


You ignore the atrocities committed by Saddam and focus on the liberators of Iraq to the point where you are suggesting they are worse and that the Iraqi people would be better off under Saddam.

Now lets see you tear a rip out of Saddams oppressive regime and point out all the wrongs committed by him. You won't though because you think the Iraqi were better off with him or what? lol ... hypocrisy. :roll:

I am not sugesting anything. Are you disturbed by the picture of the man above? Maybe you still have hope.

Hypocrisy is saying you are going there to liberate Iraq.
Hypocrisy is say that all possible peacefull means were used to disarm him.
Hypocrisy is say "Poor sole..... " for the human tragedy.
Hypocrisy is other things...

[Ilfirin]

propaganda being the only medium of communication.

Are you from the same US I am? All I see on every channel I turn to is propaganda..

[pascal]

So, explain to me again how it's SWATs (or the entity whose situation parallels SWATs) fault. Oh, right, your just being a jerk... how dumb of me.Great Vince

You are over simplifying the things.
Please, again, keep your education to your friends.

[Vince]

Hypocrisy is saying you are going there to liberate Iraq.
Hypocrisy is say that all possible peacefull means were used to disarm him.
Hypocrisy is say "Poor sole..... " for the human tragedy.
Hypocrisy is other things...

(1) We are going there to liberate Iraqi; thats the nasty, not PC, answer to our strategy of combating the virtual states of the 21st century. Most people ask this, Why Iraq? question and are sincere in their confusion. For the most part, I can respond to it with the WMD issue and win (which spares me the inevitable morality/ethical debate), but the truth is a bit diffrent. The reason they ask, Why Iraq? is because their really not smart people, sad fact, and: (a) Can't understand this themselves (b) Won't grasp why this is necessary and will not allow themselves to support it due to their lack of common-sence and contact with reality.

But, I'll give it a shot with you. The Problem facing the US and UK is the virtual state (eg. Al-Qaeda, Islamic Jihad, et al). We've eliminated the short-term problem of Al-Qaeda by ousting the Taliban and basically killing every scum-sucking thing in Afghanistan that lendsa help to terrorists that we can find. But, the long-term problem of global terrorism is still there. And looking at the nature and demography of the terorists, they're all based around the Middle East - which is the haven of the Islamisist cause and their fanatical beliefs that being 'fed' by the oppressive regimes that discurage forward social progress and education.

So, Iraq has fucked-up bad enough; they're a threat with their WMD. They're connection to virtual states is clear, they're an oppressive regime - Saddam's time has come. Beyond that, Iraq is a perfect place to plant the seeds of democracy in the region; they're resource wealthy, have a very educated and literate middle class, they're motivated.

So, we'll institute a representative democracy in Iraq, and step back. It will serve as a catalyst and within 50 years the geopolitical plane in the M. East will look nothing like it does today. Seeing your fellow muslims enjoy the freedoms, liberties and education that are present in the Neo-Iraq will be intoxicating to the rest of the M. East. The populace will rebell against the oppressive regimes and education will save the day and ultimatly protect the US in the 21st century. The US may have have the most powerful military bar-none; but it can't do what 25 years of MTV can...

So, liberation of the Iraqi people is the paramount goal... people are just too dumb to see it. Perhaps in the future, looking back, historians will see this; but then again historians aren't of the same breed (namely they are capable of intelligent thought) as the morons who use the 'Blood-for-Oil' stance.

(2) All peaceful options have been used over the course of the last 12 years. What more could we have done?

(3) & (4) are irrelevent as their not directed at me per say.

[Vince]

Great Vince

You are over simplifying the things.
Please, again, keep your education to your friends.

What, can't answer it? if you can't, just say so... As Demolion will tell ya, the reductionist method is very usefull in seeing the underlying argument thats often obscured under layer upon layer of strategic political motives, baises, alterior motives, et al.

Again, can you answer it or not? And if not, why?

[pascal]

Again, can you answer it or not? And if not, why?
Vince, you need an answer that is large enough to fill a full thread page.
I cannot do that because I am tired, I am too slow in english then it will not be good.
I dont see Iraq as an isolated situation, and I firmlly believe terrorism is a colateral damage. Smart damage control is the answer.

Unfortunatelly IMHO oil is a strong point of pressure which is different of the only reason. I think you are seing thinks very fast and direct. Very black and white, things are more gray scalle.

What we really disagree is the way to do things. Maybe this is in part my arrogance to think that "Probably I kown it much better than you".

Lets keep the original idea of this thread: pictures.

[Crusher]

http://i.cnn.net/cnn/interactive/world/0304/gallery.iraq.war.0401/warfare.5.ap.jpg

British soldiers from the light infantry and 2nd Royal Tank Regiment stand by ammunitions inside the Zubayr Primary School in Az Zubayr, south of Basra, after they discovered an arms cache in the school on Tuesday.

http://i.cnn.net/cnn/interactive/world/0304/gallery.iraq.war.0401/reaction.05.jpg

With her face painted with a peace symbol, a protester shouts slogans during a demonstration near the U.S. Embassy in Manila, Philippines, on Tuesday against the war in Iraq. Protests are held almost every day.

[epicstruggle]

Ok please read this post before you post. I would like to start a thread where we post pics from the war in iraq, protests/reactions from around the world, and anything relating to the current conflict.

Please do not post graphic images. that includes the dead, mutalated bodies, and anything else that is just plain not acceptable to be viewed by minors.

I would like to see the types of images that are being shown around the world. Whats the newspapers showing in sweden, compared to what you might see here in the states. Id like to see what the differences in images are. Please include where you got the images from and any relavent info about the pic.

Please stay on topic and remember to not post extremely graphic images.

thanks

thanks crusher for getting back on topic which is to post pics from around the world about the war.

later,

[epicstruggle]

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/SPECIALS/2003/iraq/interactive/turnley.gallery/DSC_0026.jpg
This girl in a black shawl is a member of a family of 74 people who left their homes in Kifre in northern Iraq over fears of a chemical attack. (Photo by David Turnley/CNN)


http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/SPECIALS/2003/iraq/interactive/turnley.gallery/DSC_0102.jpg
A young boy sells cigarettes in the marketplace in Kifre. School is not in session so many children make the most of their free time in the marketplace. (Photo by David Turnley/CNN)
ill bet this gets the anti-smoking peoples panties in a bunch after seeing someone clearly under 18 selling cigarettes. :)

later,

[Crusher]

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/iraq/art/cronp1.jpg
General Norman Schwarzkopf (l) and Paul Wolfowitz (r)
Saddam's brutality and America's failure to support the Shia and Kurdish uprisings deeply affects a group of neo-conservative thinkers in Washington, including Richard Perle, William Kristol, and Under Secretary of Defense for Policy Paul Wolfowitz, who complains that the U.S. inaction is comparable to "idly watching a mugging."

In 1992 Paul Wolfowitz takes the lead in drafting an internal set of military guidelines -- "Defense Planning Guidelines" -- which is prepared every few years by the Defense Department.

Wolfowitz's draft argues for a new military and political strategy in a post-Cold War world. Containment, it says, is an old idea, a relic of the Cold War. America should talk loudly and carry a big stick -- and use it -- to preempt the use of weapons of mass destruction. And if America had to act alone, so be it. (Read excerpts from the Wolfowitz draft (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/iraq/etc/wolf.html).)

Controversy erupts after the draft is leaked to the press. The Bush White House orders Defense Secretary Cheney to rewrite it. In the new draft there is no mention of preemption and U.S. willingness to act alone.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/longroad/art/cronp4.jpg
The bombing of Bagdhad
In December, Saddam ends Iraqi cooperation with UNSCOM and accuses the U.N. of espionage. On Dec. 15, UNSCOM Chairman Richard Butler reports that the Iraqis are refusing to cooperate with inspectors and the next day, President Clinton -- on the eve of the House impeachment vote -- orders Operation Desert Fox, a four-day bombardment of key Iraqi military installations. It is conducted without U.N. Security Council approval.

On Dec. 16, the day the bombing begins, the U.N. withdraws all weapons inspectors. Inspectors will not return to Iraq until November 2002, following the passage of U.N. Security Council Resolution 1441.

[Sxotty]

[quote=Sxotty]It sure is liberating, you can get pictures of those killed by the US on US news stations, it is certainly nice to be from a country that is not a hell hole with propaganda being the only medium of communication.This is true!!! From CNN:


Pascal since you are from Brasil, I take it you missed my point (because perhaps your english is not quite as good as mine), I was acknowledging the picture was real, I was saying in the U.S. we get both sides of the picture on the news (unless you watch FOX :P lol don't get angry guys). So my point is that yes that picture and many others are on the US news all the time

see what I mean?

[Gollum]

I was saying in the U.S. we get both sides of the picture on the news (unless you watch FOX :P lol don't get angry guys).
Hehe, your stab would be funnier if it wasn't for the fact that Foxnews is the most watched news network in the US at the moment AFAIK. Call me a pessimist, but if I saw a reporter saying "soon the bad guys will all be dead - D, E, A, D - dead!" on my nation's most popular newschannel, I'd be pretty irritated. Now there's a guy who should get fired for bad "reporting" just as Arnett did for his stupid interview on Iraqi TV... ;)

[RussSchultz]

Fox news does have the best embedded reporters(excepting Geraldo), but their idiot anchors (excepting Brit Hume) are flat out warmongers, particularly Shephard Smith. Their morning show is so smarmy its sickening. And I'm (generally) a republican!

[MrsSkywalker]

About the images on page 3 of this thread...

Is anyone else taken aback by how old the children look? Look at the wrinkles and "worry lines" around their eyes. I look at them and it breaks my heart. Those kids have had to live such hard lives. Those boys in the marketplace...I'd say they are probably about ten years old or so....yet look at the boy with the cigarettes...his eyes look like those of an old man! They have seen so much saddness, so much horror. As a mom, I just want to weep for them.

pascal (and all of the protesters) look at their faces. THAT'S what we are over there fighting for. You say we should not be over there fighting for them. Fine. You go over there and look into the 50 year old eyes of a child and tell them. Go ahead. Tell them your great vision of the rest of the world continuing to ignore their plight in the name of "peace". Tell them that you don't care about how many of their lives have been lost, because you feel it's more important that none of our soldiers die doing their jobs. You say you want peace? Do they look like they have ever known peace?? Do they look like your blessed "diplomatic means" have worked??

My humble apologies, epicstruggle, for veering slightly off topic :wink: .

[Sxotty]

Even Fox news really isn't so bad because their facts are usually true.

The times I have seen them incorrect recently was because they rushed top get stuff up before others and info was not complete, I don't mind that so much.

Opinions can be whatever they want but I wish reporters would tell you more facts and less opinions on all the networks.

[Sabastian]

http://www.msnbc.com/c/0/147/356/10x7/030402_war_03.jpg

Attack on Karbala
Units from the U.S. Army's 3rd Infantry Division fire missiles at the Iraqi Republican Guard near Karbala, central Iraq, early Wednesday.

[Sabastian]

http://www.msnbc.com/c/0/147/356/10x7/030402_war_07.jpg

Before the bombs
A recent but undated handout image released Tuesday by the U.S. Department of Defense shows an alleged terrorist training camp run by the radical Muslim group Ansar al-Islam in northern Iraq before coalition air strikes.


http://www.msnbc.com/c/0/147/356/10x7/030402_war_08.jpg

After
Airstrikes mauled the alleged terrorist camp.

[Sabastian]

http://www.msnbc.com/c/0/147/356/10x7/030402_war_10.jpg

Spreading the word
A cellular phone in the West Bank town of Hebron on Wednesday displays a mobile message with the image of Iraqi President Saddam Hussein saying, in Arabic: "God saves my soul for you, God destroys America."

[epicstruggle]

http://www.foxnews.com/projects/photo_essay2/iraq_war_day14/photos/11.jpg
source:foxnews.com
A U.S. Marine holds a baby as the child's mother attempts to pass through a checkpoint at Saddam Hospital in Nasiriyah, Iraq on Wednesday, April. 2, 2003

[epicstruggle]

http://i.cnn.net/cnn/2003/WORLD/meast/04/02/sprj.irq.iraq.torture/story.tires.jpg
source:cnn.com
The old tires protected the torturer while the victim stood on a wet floor and was electrocuted, a BBC reporter was told.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/04/02/sprj.irq.iraq.torture/index.html

[pascal]

http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/gallery/2003/03/31/tea_.jpgA soldier takes tea with an Iraqi
The British soldier is from 2CS.
Photo: Dan Chung

[epicstruggle]

http://www.msnbc.com/c/0/147/356/10x7/030402iraqsld_01.jpg
source:msnbc
Allied portrait
An Iraqi Kurdish peshmerga fighter stands guard with a picture of U.S. President Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney plastered on his quiver in the Kurd-controlled town of Kifri, some 130 kilometers southeast of Kirkuk, on Wednesday. Airstrikes in and around Kirkuk have intensified, forcing Iraqi troops back and allowing Kurdish fighters to advance.


http://www.msnbc.com/c/0/147/356/inline/030402iraqsld_03.jpg
A wife grieves

Amanda Jordan is comforted by her stepfather, Jay Paretzky, during the funeral for her husband, U.S. Marine Gunnery Sgt. Philip A. Jordan, at St. Patrick Cemetery Wednesday in Enfield, Conn. Jordan was killed in action in an ambush near Nasariya, Iraq.

http://www.msnbc.com/c/0/147/356/inline/030402_war_new13.jpg
Losing a son

In her kitchen near Sherwood, Ore., an anguished Rosary Contreras talks to a friend Tuesday night about the death of her son, Marine Capt. Aaron J. Contreras. Contreras and two other U.S. servicemen died when their UH-1 Huey helicopter crashed Sunday at a forward supply and refueling point in southern Iraq, the Defense Department said.

[horvendile]

From some Swedish newspapers' websites, with my translations of comments:

http://www.dn.se/content/1/c6/12/68/94/krignarabagd425.jpg
American marine in Numaniyah, southeast of Bagdad.
(www.dn.se)

http://www.svd.se/images/ettan/030403/irakbildertorsdag/3.jpg
An American ammunition load was hit and caught fire during combat at Kerbala on Wednesday.
(www.svd.se)

http://w1.sydsvenskan.se//uploaded/image/2003/4/3/horneth.jpg
An FA-18 Hornet with one man was shot down in Iraq (...)
(www.sydsvenskan.se)

http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/0304/03/pansartag370.jpg
Rapid advance. During Thursday, American forces advanced closer to Bagdad.
(www.aftonbladet.se)

http://dev.vlt.se/uploaded/image/2003/3/24/IRAQ_US_WAR103336.jpg
On the hunt for the enemy. Iraqi villagers have gathered at the river Tigris to search for the missing pilot.
(www.vlt.se)

Well, that's a small sample.

[Sxotty]

Any one else notice that last pic looks like a painting?

I am not in any way saying it is false, just the lighting and stuff, makes it look alot like a painting kind of cool actually.

[Simon F]

Dude their packs are so freakin big, I saw some chick who was a marine and it looked like the pack weighed as much as she did.
One BBC report said that the British packs weighed (IIRC) 13 stone == 82 kgs.

[Simon F]

I was saying in the U.S. we get both sides of the picture on the news (unless you watch FOX :P lol don't get angry guys).
Hehe, your stab would be funnier if it wasn't for the fact that Foxnews is the most watched news network in the US at the moment AFAIK.

All I can say is that it is a relief to get BBC News 24 here.

[Humus]

Any one else notice that last pic looks like a painting?

I am not in any way saying it is false, just the lighting and stuff, makes it look alot like a painting kind of cool actually.

Which picture are you referring to? I can't see any picture that looks painted :?

[epicstruggle]

http://i.cnn.net/cnn/interactive/world/0304/gallery.iraq.war.0404/gallery.1.warfare.ap.jpg
source:cnn
Friday, April 4, 2003
A Bradley fighting vehicle keeps watch over a burning fuel tank in a hangar at Saddam International Airport near Baghdad on Friday morning.

Hurray to our troops for taking the newly renamed "Bhagdad International Airport". :)
later,

[Sxotty]

From some Swedish newspapers' websites, with my translations of comments:


http://dev.vlt.se/uploaded/image/2003/3/24/IRAQ_US_WAR103336.jpg
On the hunt for the enemy. Iraqi villagers have gathered at the river Tigris to search for the missing pilot.
(www.vlt.se)

Well, that's a small sample.

That picture looks painted, the way the light is very flat.

[Sabastian]

http://www.msnbc.com/c/0/147/953/10x7/030404_war_05.jpg

Welcome wagon
Staff Sgt Jack Coughlin from Boston, Mass., of the 3rd Battalion, 4th Marines Regiment, jokes with Iraqi villagers Friday as his convoy moves north of Kut towards Baghdad.

[Sabastian]

From some Swedish newspapers' websites, with my translations of comments:


http://dev.vlt.se/uploaded/image/2003/3/24/IRAQ_US_WAR103336.jpg
On the hunt for the enemy. Iraqi villagers have gathered at the river Tigris to search for the missing pilot.
(www.vlt.se)

Well, that's a small sample.

That picture looks painted, the way the light is very flat.

I saw the video footage of that incident. It looks as though Iraqi TV had broadcast the event for some time and civilians were curious to see what was going on. I don't recall ever actually seeing the person they were shooting at ..

[Sxotty]

Yeah I saw the live report too, I was not saying it was a fake, just that the picture looked like a painting to me.

From what I understand there was nothing to shoot at there, and they were just running around like morons.

Gen. Brooks (or some other guy) said "It looks like their search and rescue methods need a little refining", in regards to the incident, seemed pretty funny to me.

[Sabastian]

http://www.msnbc.com/c/0/148/221/10x7/030405_war_09.jpg

Deadly discovery


A British soldier holds a catalogue of photographs of dead people, as coffin-sized boxes with bags containing human remains are lined up in a warehouse at an abandoned Iraqi military base in Zubayr, southern Iraq, on Saturday. British forces said Saturday they had found an estimated 200 coffin-sized boxes containing hundreds of human remains along with a catalogue of photographs of the dead. Capt. Jack Kemp of the Royal Horse Artillery said he believed the people had been dead for several years.

[Sabastian]

http://www.msnbc.com/c/0/148/221/10x7/030405_war_03.jpg

Heavy fire
British AS 90 155mm self propelled guns of C Battery, 3 Regiment of the Royal Horse Artillery, fire on Iraqi targets from a position near the city of Basra in southern Iraq, on Saturday.

[Tahir2]

RE: Deadly Discovery

That is so sick it is almost hard to believe. I had hoped Saddam Hussein was dead as was being speculated a few days ago. At the moment though I doubt it as he appeared on TV again today (5th April 2003).

[Simon F]

RE: Deadly Discovery

That is so sick it is almost hard to believe. I had hoped Saddam Hussein was dead as was being speculated a few days ago. At the moment though I doubt it as he appeared on TV again today (5th April 2003).
He might even be out of the country.

On a similar note, did anyone see the (UK ITV) interview with the Iraqi exile who was forced to become a double for one of Saddam's sons? It was frightening. Curiously, though he had no love whatsoever for the regime, he was still against the war.

[epicstruggle]

saw it, very interesting interview. I thought he was against it because the casualties might be high, and the US might not finish the job.

later,

[pascal]

Lets remenber the journalists:http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/gallery/2003/04/04/journalists_.jpgJournalists caught in cross fire
Journalists get caught in the cross fire in the outskirts of Baghdad
Photo: Patrick Barth, Getty Images

[Sabastian]

http://www.msnbc.com/c/0/148/593/10x7/030407_war11amupdate05.jpg

At the palace gates
A U.S. Army M-1 Abrams tank crew take a break in front of a presidential palace near Baghdad's international airport, Monday. American forces raided three of Iraqi President Saddam Hussein's palaces in and near the capital, including his main compound in the center of the city.

[Sabastian]

http://www.msnbc.com/c/0/148/593/10x7/030407_war11amupdate04.jpg

Royal repose
Forces from the 42 Commando Royal Marines, rest in Saddam Hussein's Palace, after taking the complex on Monday. The men are sleeping in one of the state rooms on the front of the Shattal Arab waterways.

[Snyder]

So, let me get this strait. If your running a Meth-lab in your basement and are selling it to kids and your neighbor found out; he told you to get rid of the Lab immediatly or he'll call the police. So, you refuse and he calls... For the next 12 years, a negotiator is talking to the Meth dealer on the phone - to no avail. Next thing you know, SWAT blows off your door and comes charging into your house. You retreat to the bathroom, unbeknownst to them, with your 6 month old kid and slam the door shut. As SWAT approaches you start randomly shooting out the door. SWAT breaches the door and in the CQB an unidentified shot (from either party, as it's irrelevent) hit the child. As soon as the dealer is dead, SWAT rushes in and saves the kids life.

So, your telling me it's SWATs (or society at large's) fault that the kid was injured? If anything SWAT should be commended for removing the treat to the community, and freeing that child to live a life outside the realm of the methhead - a life that the child had no control over, a life that was unable to defend itself, a life that society had to protect.

I* happen to think the fault is as follow:

(a) Meth-dealer's fault for having a Meth-Lab
(b) Meth-dealer's fault for using the kid as a shield
(c) Meth-dealer's fault for even raising a kid in that enviroment



What a convenient example...make that e.g. 10 family members and SWAT kill 2 when storming the place.
And SWAT knew people would likely die when they storm the place.
Were the lives of the killed really worth it?

[epicstruggle]

http://www.msnbc.com/c/0/148/593/inline/030407_war_08.jpg
Source:MSNBC
Packed with care
Amelia Johnson, right, of Westerville, Ohio, helps Ohio National Guard soldiers and other volunteers pack donated items into care packages for armed service members in Iraq on Sunday at the Ohio Adjutant General's Department in Dublin, Ohio.


later,

[Sxotty]

http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2003/04/06/international/SLIDE03.jpg
he should teach them how to hold them too

http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2003/04/06/international/SLIDE05.jpg
karbala

http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2003/04/06/international/SLIDE07.jpg

The kurdish friendly fire remains

http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2003/04/06/international/SLIDE08.jpg
Woman in baghdad

[RussSchultz]

http://www2.arkansas.net/~arkieboy/superstomper.jpg

(swiped from fark.com (http://forums.fark.com/cgi/fark/comments.pl?IDLink=488856))

Edit: egad. I didn't notice the vulgar language in the pict. Sorry bout that.

[RussSchultz]

Here's a photo montage set to music put together by a patriotic geek.


http://wave.prohosting.com/ayiabtu/ayiabtu.html

[Crusher]

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2003/images/04/09/top2.statue.down.ap.jpg

Statue of Saddam torn down just up the street from the Palestine Hotel where the Baghdad reporters have been stationed since the beginning of the war.

[Sxotty]

http://donaldsensing.com/Pix/liberation/Gohomeshields.jpg

You have to admit it is funny, wjos knows if someone put them up to it lol.

[pascal]

Some pics (12): http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/photo_gallery/2931475.stm

[Sabastian]

http://donaldsensing.com/Pix/liberation/Gohomeshields.jpg


lol that has got to be my fav stll pic yet. :wink:

[Sabastian]

http://www.msnbc.com/c/0/149/48/10x7/030409_war_9am_01.jpg

Jubilation
A Kurd chants "George Bush we love you" during celebrations in the streets of Sulamaniyah, in northern Iraq on Wednesday.

[Sabastian]

http://www.msnbc.com/c/0/149/48/10x7/030409_war_07.jpg

Chamber of horrors
An alleged torture chamber is seen in the basement of a jail in Basra, Iraq, on Tuesday. Locals told journalists that for decades Saddam Hussein's secret police tortured inmates at the jail with beatings, mutilations, electric shocks and chemical baths.