New Keyboard?

[Skrying]

Open to any suggestions as this point. I would like to stay with a wired keyboard though, unless anyone has personal experience and can back up a wireless and confirm that it has the usual quick response, etc. My current keyboard is a Microsoft Multimedia, around 5 years old now. I have no perference between brands, I would say though that I love this keyboard but its developing some response problems with certain keys.

Soooooooo, hit me with those suggestions!

[digitalwanderer]

Logitech Ultra X (http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/products/details/GB/EN,CRID=1969,parentcrid=925,scrid=925,CONTENTID=10 966). Once you use one, you'll never go back.

I got my wife one since she liked mine so much, and she's as bonkers about hers as I am about mine.

Nothing major special with it 'cept the keys are laptop style, low-profile, scissor-action types which makes it a lot easier and more comfortable to type on. (At least for me, my typing actually got a tad faster when I got this and I was already pretty quick)

They're out of stock at Newegg for $20 shipped (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16823126135). Not the cheapest, not the most expensive; but definitely the best I've ever used. :)

[digitalwanderer]

Found it!

Here's the thread at EB from last year (http://80.243.187.162/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9820) that turned me on to the Ultra X, and it even had a link in it to where they're in stock shipped for $15.95 (http://justdeals.stores.yahoo.net/9673530403n.html). :)

Sorry, happy memories. I really do love me Ultra X, just about as much as I do my MX1000.

I'm totally spoiled with nice input devices now, it makes things soooo much more convenient/easier.

[Skrying]

Does it come with a wrist rest? I do not use the one on my current keyboard, but my current does have a more extended bottom edge that serves this pupose.

It was actually a laptop that got me thinking about picking one up. I thought it was much easier on my fingers as well, so I'm pretty darn interested in it!

$15~$20? That's super cheap, I was ready to lay down up to $50 on a new one. I keep keyboards for a rather long time so I'm okay with spending that extra amount, same with mice for me also.

[digitalwanderer]

No wrist rest on the Ultra X. I use a little cheap foam one a drug rep gave my wife.

(My Dilbert one was too thick for the Ultra X, I needed a slimmer pad)

Actually this wrist rest I'm using is pretty well shot. The nylon top is coming loose from the foam rubber bottom all around the edges to varying degrees so it curls up a bit, too many years of sweaty palms and cats chewing on it.

Any recommendations on a nice wrist rest?

[Rolf N]

Logitech Ultra X (http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/products/details/GB/EN,CRID=1969,parentcrid=925,scrid=925,CONTENTID=10 966). Once you use one, you'll never go back.*hugs digi*
I can recommend this too. Low clickity noise, relatively high resistance but short way to press. Overall a great feel.

[Malo]

Microsoft Natural 4000 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16823109148)

Easily the most comfortable keyboard i've ever used. Soft keys, perfect wrist guard support, extra function keys and not as extreme split positioning as other ergonomic styles so it's very easy to change to after using standard styles for years. Have converted most of my friends whom are willing to pay the higher cost after they use it just for a few minutes.

Only cons are it won't fit on most keyboard drawers because of its size, and the track skip keys don't work with winamp. Not that i've tried later versions of the software to see if they've fixed that.

[Zengar]

I also have a Logitech UltraX keyboard, it is amasing! You won't regret it. Hovewer, if you don't like flat keys, this is nothing for you...

[nutball]

I have a Logitech Ultra-X lying around... it's OK... I also have a couple of these:

Logitech Ultra-Flat Keyboard (http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/products/details/GB/EN,CRID=2166,CONTENTID=11522)

The latter is in my experience somewhat preferable to the Ultra-X. Though my main keyboard is a diNovo (the notebook one) which is better than both of the above... but it's wireless so not what the OP is after.

[stevem]

Logitech has some usefull VAR/OEM gear. I can't speak for the Ultra X, but the cordless S 510 (http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/products/details/US/EN,CRID=2162,CONTENTID=10710)s at work are fine, no lag. For the money, they're a bargain. I use a BT diNovo Edge (http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/products/details/US/EN,CRID=2166,CONTENTID=12339). It's OK too.

[Dresden]

I remember a friend of mine showing me a custom made keyboard a few months ago done by an artist. Without a doubt the prettiest keyboard I ever saw. The keys were composed of a series of LCD images which could be changed via dekstop options, for example to work better with applications like photoshop. It went for something like 2 grand though. Now within the realm of realism, are there any backlit keyboards yet?

[nutball]

I remember a friend of mine showing me a custom made keyboard a few months ago done by an artist. Without a doubt the prettiest keyboard I ever saw. The keys were composed of a series of LCD images which could be changed via dekstop options, for example to work better with applications like photoshop. It went for something like 2 grand though. Now within the realm of realism, are there any backlit keyboards yet?

This one perhaps?

http://www.artlebedev.com/everything/optimus/

[Dresden]

This one perhaps?

http://www.artlebedev.com/everything/optimus/


Yup that's the one!

[Skrying]

Now within the realm of realism, are there any backlit keyboards yet?

What do you mean by backlit? There are many keyboards that have light up keys.

[Dresden]

What do you mean by backlit? There are many keyboards that have light up keys.

.......Please share would be my initial response.

[Skrying]

This cheap Sunbeam: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16823178104

And this Saitek are some examples: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16823175101

Generally they are cheaply made though, but the Saitek is actually pretty good from what I've had experience with. Xoxide even has a whole section of site dedicated to illuniated and backlighting keyboards: http://xoxide.com/blpsilke.html

[Dresden]

This cheap Sunbeam: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16823178104

And this Saitek are some examples: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16823175101

Generally they are cheaply made though, but the Saitek is actually pretty good from what I've had experience with. Xoxide even has a whole section of site dedicated to illuniated and backlighting keyboards: http://xoxide.com/blpsilke.html

Thank you for the links Skrying. It doesn't look like there's much to offer though, I tend to be finnicky regarding my keyboard. I don't see why Microsoft or Logitech don't hop on this bandwagon and produce a high quality one.

[Skrying]

Thank you for the links Skrying. It doesn't look like there's much to offer though, I tend to be finnicky regarding my keyboard. I don't see why Microsoft or Logitech don't hop on this bandwagon and produce a high quality one.

I believe Logitech does, they're G15 comes to mind when it comes to this, but dont quote me on that. Of course it is a $100 gamers keyboard with an LCD screen so I see no reason why it shouldnt have this. Lol.

[Skrying]

Ahh the G15 and G11 both have backlighted keys. On these I believe there is a glow behind the keys though the keys are not clear, I would think that's better though as you can see the keys but not be blinded by the glow when not looking down at them.

G15: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16823126179

G11: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16823126009

[Jaybird376]

I'm in love with my G15, well worth the money if you're willing to use the macro functionality....

The only disappointing thing is the LCD screen support never took off from a developer standpoint.

If it were more functional, I think that feature would have been a tremendous selling point.

Unfortunately, to my knowledge, the homebrew creations haven't been tremendous for gaming. When I've looked, I haven't found a ton, but that was about a year ago. I just use the screen for MP3 display.

[Jawed]

http://www.clickykeyboards.com/index.cfm

My 1991 vintage Model M is still wonderful.

Another programmer at the office was only too eager to trade her "noisy" IBM keyboard for the mushy device I was using. That was my introduction to the glorious Model M. It was like sitting down to a Steinway concert grand after years of playing a cheap toy. Some months ago I purchased from you a white label IBM Model M to use with the home computer; and I’ve just ordered another to be paired with a laptop. Thanks for offering these fine products. No complaints about the service either.
Mine was rescued from a skip for me by a mate. He's got one, too, which he's about to connect to his Mac Mini...

Jawed

[Skrying]

I've used Model M's and always found them to kill my fingers. Never got the draw of them besides being vintage.

[hughJ]

I own a G15, but it sits on a shelf while I've gone back to my tried and true Keytronic LT Designer.

I don't think KT make the membranes for these the way I like it anymore - I've bought 2 since the first, and have reused the membrane from the first over and over. Now they seem to have different keys weighted differently, where as with my older model, all the keystrokes seem to have the same weight (harder press.) It's a quiet, but solid key press which I've really gotten used to :)

One thing to make note of with the G15, is that the keys are actually clear plastic with a black painted covering 'cept for where the letters shine through. Problem with this, is that if your keyboard tends to get heavy use in certain areas, that black will eventually wear through until you see the blue backlights shining through. Looks a lot more ugly than when keys just have their letters wear off.

[Skrying]

Interesting, I didnt know the entire key was painted. I think I'd be the type of person to remove all the paint off the keys. Heck, I get bored sometimes and might do a mod of them. To bad I don't plan on spending the money for a G15. :razz:

I'm going to be placing the order for what amounts to a new PC (everything but the CPU, Core 2 Duo based system) and I'll be picking up the Ultra X and the Microsoft Natural keyboard and then return whichever one I do not like. It'll be interesting, my current keyboard is a MS and I really like it, it just has the problems from aging. I think once you've used a keyboard for so long you grow into it and switching can be a challenge.

[Blazkowicz]

I find model M awesome for typing. precision is almost perfect, you can type really fast on it, without mistakes. but it's clicky hell for gaming, especially FPS (CLIK-CLIK-CLIK-CLAK-CLIK) though I like playing a flipper game with the SHIFT keys)


I use a 10 year old membrane IBM keyboard and love it. it doesn't feel perfect but might be the best I ever used.

if you're a cheap guy you can get some great keyboards in "boxing day" type sales or litterally in a trash bin. (some cheaper IBM keyboards from the "Aptiva" era suck in comparison, though)

never tried a keytronic but I guess this is what I'd want.


regarding wrist rest : I always hated them and don't understand the need for them, I think the wrist rests well enough on the desk, and you shouldn't make it rest too much while typing.

[Blazkowicz]

. I think once you've used a keyboard for so long you grow into it and switching can be a challenge.

I've been using microsft trekker wheel mouse for something like 5 years (cheap, light and good.. and has a ball) (I changed it once or twice)

Almost all my FPS gaming (except the good old classics, keyboard only :cool: ) was done on it, especially CS, quake3 and others. I'd say using that mouse is hardwired in my brain; I can't much stand optic mouses's shortcoming (and how they need a mouse pad, preferably an expensive one )

I have less trouble switching keyboard though.
though my current one will last quite a number of years. good keyboards not only are good but last long. the really crappy ones are extremely crappy/half broken after only one year..


-----

hey, while I don't know much about good current keyboards..
I've just remembered the current Dell are quite good (I've used it a bit), stylish, compact and have (almost) standard layout.

http://www.tecomtrade.hr/uploads/Dell_keyboard_8115.jpg

it can be ordered alone (and isn't expensive)

[Blazkowicz]

I'm in love with my G15, well worth the money if you're willing to use the macro functionality....

The only disappointing thing is the LCD screen support never took off from a developer standpoint.

If it were more functional, I think that feature would have been a tremendous selling point.

Unfortunately, to my knowledge, the homebrew creations haven't been tremendous for gaming. When I've looked, I haven't found a ton, but that was about a year ago. I just use the screen for MP3 display.

Vista has an API for such LCD screens (well, if they didn't cut that feature :roll: )
(though I doubt games will really use it)

[Frank]

The black IBM M from the last topic without any print on the keys.

[digitalwanderer]

I always thought a keyboard without letters would be cool, and how often do you really look at it anyways?

Then again, about half of the keys on my keyboard are blank now...the letters wore off from use. :lol:

[nutball]

I always thought a keyboard without letters would be cool, and how often do you really look at it anyways?

http://daskeyboard.com/

[Tim Murray]

I swore by the Model M for 2.5 years, but then it died (more specifically, the girlfriend knocked over a glass of water--cute slow motion "Nooooooo!"). I found a laptop-style keyboard, but I feel that it will die within a few months. I will replace my Model M at that point (people complained about the noise--they can suck it up).

[digitalwanderer]

I won't complain about the noise, but I will mention that I personally don't care for a noisy keyboard.

Different strokes for different folks and all that, I prefer the silent action type.

[Skrying]

I've been using microsft trekker wheel mouse for something like 5 years (cheap, light and good.. and has a ball) (I changed it once or twice)

Almost all my FPS gaming (except the good old classics, keyboard only :cool: ) was done on it, especially CS, quake3 and others. I'd say using that mouse is hardwired in my brain; I can't much stand optic mouses's shortcoming (and how they need a mouse pad, preferably an expensive one )

I have less trouble switching keyboard though.
though my current one will last quite a number of years. good keyboards not only are good but last long. the really crappy ones are extremely crappy/half broken after only one year..


-----

hey, while I don't know much about good current keyboards..
I've just remembered the current Dell are quite good (I've used it a bit), stylish, compact and have (almost) standard layout.

http://www.tecomtrade.hr/uploads/Dell_keyboard_8115.jpg

it can be ordered alone (and isn't expensive)

I feel bad for you. :(

You ever use a new optical mouse? They blow away ball mice. By far.

Also, I've used MANY of the new style Dells, I really dislike them..........

[poopypoo]

Yeah, firstly, Blazkowicz, ball mice are poison to the soul. Try a decent optical mouse (i actually prefer wireless ones for the added battery weight) and you'll never go back. Secondly, for work, nothing replaces mechanical key switches. I bought my stepfather a Model M and he loves it. The clicking isn't bad at all, IMO. I guess I just grew up with it, so it's like, when I hear any typing noise, it's the same as the old clicking in my brain. However, for gaming, hard to beat scissor action.The nicest keyboard I've ever used is probably the Matias Pro. It's a USB keyboard desinged for use with Macs, but works fine with PCs. Like the old MS Elite, it features 2 USB ports on it, too. However, it can be a bit pricy ($60 US). Honestly, last time I went keyboard shopping I searched high and low for the MS Elite, but it was out of stock everywhere. if you do a lot of gaming, USB ports on the keyboard are great (though they don't have the juice for rumble pads). I guess I could buy a USB hub but... I'm cheap! ;p

[Rys]

I'll throw in a vote for Apple's USB Pro (current white one and older 'black' keyed one) keyboards. Been using them for 2+ years now on my PCs and I love the way they feel. HIDs are very much personal parts of the computing experience though.

[Mize]

Also, optical mice haven't needed a special mouse pad for like 10 years. I remember the first one I used on a Sun workstation did, but today's optical mice work on anything but really shiny surfaces.

[Zengar]

hey, while I don't know much about good current keyboards..
I've just remembered the current Dell are quite good (I've used it a bit), stylish, compact and have (almost) standard layout.

http://www.tecomtrade.hr/uploads/Dell_keyboard_8115.jpg

it can be ordered alone (and isn't expensive)

I worked with this keyboard and I found it awful. The buttons are too big and too high. It was a really displeasing experience...

p.s. But, as already mentioned, I like flat keyboards :-)

[Blazkowicz]

I don't understand what's special about flat keyboard, why would one use a laptop keyboard and not a full one.
as for that dell I didn't use it much but I found it more than decent, so at least it's better than the 90% crappy keyboards people strangely manage to live with.

[Tim Murray]

I don't understand what's special about flat keyboard, why would one use a laptop keyboard and not a full one.
as for that dell I didn't use it much but I found it more than decent, so at least it's better than the 90% crappy keyboards people strangely manage to live with.
Laptop keyboards are closer to the clicky keyboards of yore than membrane keyboards, which makes them more comfortable to type on if you type at really high speeds.

[Skrying]

I don't understand what's special about flat keyboard, why would one use a laptop keyboard and not a full one.
as for that dell I didn't use it much but I found it more than decent, so at least it's better than the 90% crappy keyboards people strangely manage to live with.

The flat keyboards such as the Ultra-X ARE full size keyboards. They only have a laptop style membrane. Very different....

Also, its odd you make such a comment when you live a crappy mouse. Your experience must be pretty limited with your idea that you still need to use a special mouse pad. When was that? 95? I've never used any of my optical mice on a mousepad.

[digitalwanderer]

I have trouble with someone preferring a ball over an optical too, it's unnatural to me. :???:

I don't need a mousepad, but I still use my Func1030 just 'cause I like it and am used to it.

That's what I like best about the Ultra X btw, it's full-sized and has the standard key layout with an over-sized backspace like a keyboard should...it just has the low-profile keys like a laptop so the key action is MUCH faster for me.

Did you ever pick up a keyboard Skrying?

[Skrying]

Did you ever pick up a keyboard Skrying?

I'll be picking it up when I order the rest of my holiday computer stuff. About to do my biggest upgrade to my rig in a long time and I feel a keyboard is just a must. BTW, my biggest upgrade is coming in at a price of only $550. :lol:

[digitalwanderer]

What all you getting for that $550? To me that IS a fortune to spend on an upgrade, mine average $100-200 and they're getting much fewer and further between lately. :oops:

[Skrying]

What all you getting for that $550? To me that IS a fortune to spend on an upgrade, mine average $100-200 and they're getting much fewer and further between lately. :oops:

Gigabyte X1950 Pro (comes with a Zalman cooler as stock)
Gigabyte GA-965P-DS3 motherboard
And then whatever 2GB set of DDR2 I can find at the time.

About the biggest upgrade I've made in about 4 years.

[digitalwanderer]

Sweeeeet, I'm envious. :cool:

[Blazkowicz]

my mouse falls in the better-than-most-crap department (low end opticals are crappy, low end ball mice aren't the only bad ones), is very lightweight (I hate weight in a mouse) and costs nothing as I already have it.

for the needed pad, well it's only that I don't like letting an optical mouse sliding on my desk, or most desks :), and what I like about ball is, there's never any erratic behavior.
who gives a shit what tech I'm using if I like my mouse. and too bad I'm playing the stone-age man on a forum, but who gives a shit, too

[digitalwanderer]

Nothing wrong with liking what you like, and if you're happy with it screw what anyone else thinks. :)

My house is way too dusty for ball mice, mine always got gunked up and with the kid's mice it was RIDICULOUS! Optical mice for me are not just more accurate, they're f-ing more convenient by a buttload!

I was living as an MS optical man for many years and went thru at least four before picking up an MX518 and feeling like an idiot for paying $35us for a mouse....until I got it, used it, and fell in love with it.

Upgraded not that long ago to an insanely expensive (to me at least) MX1000 for $50us and haven't been happier with a purchase in a long time. The sucker is a dream to me and the absolute PERFECT mouse, at least until I find a better one. ;)

I'd like to try a few more flat, full-sized, laptop style key keyboards now. I love my UltraX, but I need to get another one so I don't have to use a clunker when I stick mine in the dishwasher and let it dry for a few days.

[Frank]

MS mice feel happy when you hold them, if you've got just the right (right-) hand, but the wheel is pretty bad. I bought two Trust Predator mice. Almost perfect for me.

[poopypoo]

Although I do prefer mice with good size and weight, the true measure of comfort, for me, too, is a quality scroll wheel. I have had a couple where the mouse registers a scroll if the wheel is brushed a little, or wheels that won't stay stiff, or the clicking motion isn't distinct, all of which are problems since I use the middle mouse button a lot. Nice to see lots of games taking advantage of it, nowadays, too. :)

[Skrying]

The MX510 to me is the best mouse ever. Logitech really made it perfect. Since then they've screwed it up (though the Revolution is really really nice, but expensive) with their other mid-range gaming mice. The thumb certainly needs two buttons. Plus the weight is perfect (once you remove the internal one) and the scroll wheel on Logitech mice has always been top notch.

[MuFu]

I use a black Ultra X. The range is a bit poo but it's a good keyboard for the money - especially if you work on a laptop all day.

[Tim Murray]

I believe the Rosewill RK500 is a rebranded UltraX. Somebody want to confirm this?

[Skrying]

I believe the Rosewill RK500 is a rebranded UltraX. Somebody want to confirm this?

On close inspection the Rosewill's keys are raised like a traditional keyboard and the media keys are located differently.

[Bigus Dickus]

Keyboards, bah, I'm pretty happy on most anything since I use a dozen different computers every week and seem to have developed a "generic" non-preference.

At home I use a ball mouse though... razor boomslang, and will keep reparing it myself until it is utterly unrepairable.

[Tim Murray]

On close inspection the Rosewill's keys are raised like a traditional keyboard and the media keys are located differently.
Ah, yeah, you're right about the media keys. Oh well, I still like it enough :D