Budget to Mid-Range Upgrade

[Jaybird376]

Hello everyone,

It's been a long time since I've kept track of what the trends and good deals of the 3D gaming world have been. Unfortunately, I've run into a bit of bad luck with my desktop computer during a move. My CPU and or Motherboard have both blown up, and the computer won't even post anymore.

As a result, I'm now in the market to overhaul my computer on a tight budget. My existing computer was no where near cutting edge 1700+ Athlon XP with an Abit NF7 Mobo. Because it's these two parts, I'm assuming any upgrade is now going to need to change at least CPU, MOBO, and RAM. Plus to make full use of the upgrade, a SATA HD and PCI Express Graphics Card.

I don't do a ton of cutting edge 3D gaming anymore, HL2 is likely the most graphicly intensive game I'll play for a good amount of time. Maybe NWN2 at some point.

I'm curious for suggestions of what type of equipment to purchase? To replace all 5 pieces, I'm looking at a budget of maybe $500-$600? Is that even reasonable? I appreciate any suggestions and information everyone can provide.

Thanks,
Jaybird376

[Mize]

Hello everyone,

It's been a long time since I've kept track of what the trends and good deals of the 3D gaming world have been. Unfortunately, I've run into a bit of bad luck with my desktop computer during a move. My CPU and or Motherboard have both blown up, and the computer won't even post anymore.

As a result, I'm now in the market to overhaul my computer on a tight budget. My existing computer was no where near cutting edge 1700+ Athlon XP with an Abit NF7 Mobo. Because it's these two parts, I'm assuming any upgrade is now going to need to change at least CPU, MOBO, and RAM. Plus to make full use of the upgrade, a SATA HD and PCI Express Graphics Card.

I don't do a ton of cutting edge 3D gaming anymore, HL2 is likely the most graphicly intensive game I'll play for a good amount of time. Maybe NWN2 at some point.

I'm curious for suggestions of what type of equipment to purchase? To replace all 5 pieces, I'm looking at a budget of maybe $500-$600? Is that even reasonable? I appreciate any suggestions and information everyone can provide.

Thanks,
Jaybird376

Tough to do all five but it can be done...
Athlon 64 3000+ - $55
Gigabyte GA-K8N51PVM9-RH MB - $75
2x512MB DDR - $100
Seagate Barracuda 7200.9, 250 GB HD - $75

Total is $305 without a GPU...I go for that new ATI 1950 Pro (if you can find it) or the nVidia 7900 GS.

[Jaybird376]

Another few questions for the group, not to try and shamelessly bump my post count :D

I recently purchased all the parts for my new computer Core 2 Duo system, and put it all together. It was working wonderfuly for a week or so, when yesterday my new PSU spectacularly failed. The computer just shutdown completely without warning. It was as if the power went out, but nothing else turned off.

At this point, I know I'm screwed and I possibly lost one or two more components. Anyway, I returned the PSU and got a new one, to try and boot the system. Unfortunately, nothing kicks on and I see some smoke rising around the Processor. At which point I unplug the system and I realize I'm completely screwed.

Well I'm pretty much assuming the processor is blown now and will need an RMA, luckily its a retail version which should be covered in a waranty. I'm wondering how screwed the rest of my system is, and how I should go about diagnosing each part. I could easily see my Mobo being toast as well, but I'd hope the RAM, Graphics card and HD would survive. I'm not sure though.

Anyone have any suggestions on what to do next? Is there any chance the processor could have survived, I know I'm grasping there. The smoke was around the periphery of the processor but it smelled burnt, which was either the the processor or the thermal paste from the stock hsf. If I can avoid having to RMA everything that would be phenomenal, but now I've got multiple potential issues and I have no idea where to start for diagnosis.

I'm guessing I need to test the new PSU for defect, and test the Mobo with a new processor at least. What I'm most worried about is screwing up additional parts by testing potentially broken equipment. Am I just being paranoid now?


EDIT: I wasn't doing any overclocking. The system was running at stock speeds the entire time. I didn't notice an high temperatures, although I was only looking at idle most of the time. At which point it would stay around 28-32 degrees celcius.

[Pete]

Did you RMA or just return the PSU? If RMA, did they explain the failure? If return, what'd you swap it for?

I really have no experience with this sort of troubleshooting, but the first thing that comes to mind is to make sure that you're using a quality PSU. This is one area (like the monitor) where you probably don't want to skimp, no matter the budget, not necessarily in terms of wattage but in terms of quality.

I don't know, if the PSU fails and takes something with it, is that covered by the PSU's warranty? Seems to me the easiest thing to do would be to bring the system to a local shop (be it "mom 'n pop" or chain) to have them test the CPU, MB, RAM, GPU, and HD separately, but I don't know if this'd be cheaper than individual RMAs.

The smoke sounds very strange. Does the CPU or socket look damaged? Is there obvious scorching or blown capacitors on the MB (check the back, too)? Yeah, I wouldn't boot anything up together, but I a visual inspection seems step one.

[AlStrong]

If possible could you please post some photos of the motherboard? Maybe we can help spot something. :)

[Mize]

If there's no scorching on the processor or processor area it's likely you only blew some stuff on the MB. I've had a PSU go out spectacularly (with smoke) and nothing else die. I'd start replacing stuff with a new MB since that's cheaper than the CPU and a dead CPU can't fry a MB. Also, don't skimp on the PSU.

[{Sniping}Waste]

Test the CMOS battery and see if its good. This can cause the system not to power up.
What type of memory do you have from the older system? Is it DDR, what speed is it and what size?

[Jaybird376]

Did you RMA or just return the PSU? If RMA, did they explain the failure? If return, what'd you swap it for?

I really have no experience with this sort of troubleshooting, but the first thing that comes to mind is to make sure that you're using a quality PSU. This is one area (like the monitor) where you probably don't want to skimp, no matter the budget, not necessarily in terms of wattage but in terms of quality.

I don't know, if the PSU fails and takes something with it, is that covered by the PSU's warranty? Seems to me the easiest thing to do would be to bring the system to a local shop (be it "mom 'n pop" or chain) to have them test the CPU, MB, RAM, GPU, and HD separately, but I don't know if this'd be cheaper than individual RMAs.

The smoke sounds very strange. Does the CPU or socket look damaged? Is there obvious scorching or blown capacitors on the MB (check the back, too)? Yeah, I wouldn't boot anything up together, but I a visual inspection seems step one.

I bought the PSU at CompUSA on a good rebate, it was an Antec NeoHE 550. I had good luck with my previous Antec PSU.

When it first crashed, I assumed it was the power supply that failed. The system just turned off like a light switch turned off. I couldn't get it to boot back up.

This lead me to believe the PSU failed, as the 21 day return policy was just about to expire, I decided to exchange the allegedly defective PSU for a new one of the same model. It was my assumption that the PSU was the issue, because the system was running stable. Plus there was no beep warning when the system shut down on its own, which leads me to believe it wasn't the processor overheating.

I bought all the other parts from Newegg, and it's been less than a month, so I think I have some leeway to play with the RMA of parts. Unfortunately, I'm off at a conference right now which means I can't play with the parts anymore. From what I saw, it was tough to see the scortching on the CPU. I'd need to scrape off the thermal paste from the stock HSF. THe socket didn't really look damaged, but I'd have to take a closer look when I get back to my Appartment.


Going from my memory right now the parts I put in were:

2x 512 MB Corsair PC-6400 RAM
Conroe 6300 C2D processor
Gigabyte GA-965P-DS3 Mobo
BFG Nvidia 7600 GT GC
Seagate 7200.10 250 GB HD
Antec NeoHE 550 PSU
and an old DVD burner.

Nothing too elaborate, the biggest worry I have is testing potentially damaged equipment and having it break something else.

I'll see if I can get some pics when I get back.

[Pete]

Scorching on the CPU heatspreader? That's weird. Mize, you seem to have had experience with that. Why does that happen?

I guess the MB's manual said it'd beep if something overheated, and that's why you think heat wasn't the issue?

Antec's a good brand and that's a higher-end model, so even if by some fluke the first broke, your current one should be fine. But, yeah, the MB could damage other things if it's at fault, so I wouldn't go turning it on. If you don't want to have someone else test it, maybe buy another to test with and eat the return cost once you diagnose the problem (assuming it wasn't the MB).

[Jaybird376]

Just got back from the conference and got to take a better look at the parts. I'm not sure the Processor was the cause of the smoke. I don't see any scorching on the processor. I'm not entirely sure what it would look like if it were there. There's no discoloration between the area of the thermal paste. I wish I had a digital camera here that I could use to post pics to get more input.

That's not to say the processor isn't fried. I did notice a piece on the motherboard that's not like the others. I don't know what to call it, a transistor I guess. It seems to have some bubbling on its surface and doesn't resemble the three other similar transistors that are in a row. It may have been the source of the smoke. It's where the source of the smoke started. If that's the case, is there any chance the CPU will survive?

I guess tommorow's the day to go find somewhere to take the parts and test them all. Hopefully I can find some answers.

[Pete]

Capacitor, maybe? Find a pic of your MB at NewEgg, edit it with MSPaint to draw a red circle around the offending part, and upload it to imageshack or something. Then provide us a link to the image so we know what's smoked.

Or borrow a digicam. :) Heck, if you have a regular scanner (not the ultraslim Canon ones), you could (gently) scan a pic of it.

[Jaybird376]

Hopefully this link works to show the image

The circle is small but its right above the Rear IO backplate

THe one circled no longer looks like the other 3 in that row. That could be the cause of the smoke, but I got no clue.

http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/7030/gigabyteboardii0.th.jpg (http://img95.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gigabyteboardii0.jpg)

[BRiT]

Thats part of the voltage regulator circuitry. Bad stuff indeed if it fried.

[Pete]

Yeah, contact Gigabyte about an RMA. Hopefully nothing else bought the farm, too.

[Jaybird376]

If it was the voltage regulator that blew up, how likely do you think it is that any of the other parts survived?

[Mize]

If it was the voltage regulator that blew up, how likely do you think it is that any of the other parts survived?

Likely. Very likely.
Just RMA it and get a new one from Gigabyte (or Newegg if that's where you bought it).

[Jaybird376]

Likely. Very likely.
Just RMA it and get a new one from Gigabyte (or Newegg if that's where you bought it).

Well, I talked to Newegg and they suggested RMAing everything.

Shipping costs won't be too bad. I'm hoping they don't screw me on the Mobo RMA because it's likely "physically damaged". We'll see on that. If it is, I'll likely have to RMA through Gigabyte.

I could try to just RMA the mobo, but IF the CPU is blown, I lose the ability to RMA it through newegg before the new motherboard would get back here for me to test, I think.

There's nothing on the HD or anything that I absolutely need to keep so I'd rather take the completely fresh start.

I just want to say thank you to everyone who's taken the time to provide some advice. I really appreciate it and found it useful. I'll keep the thread updated with any information I get. Hopefully there's no more problems.

Thanks again,

Jaybird376

[Mize]

"physically" damaged means gross mechanical damage (you cracked it or something).

You should be okay.

[{Sniping}Waste]

The bad part is a mofet transistor thats part of the voltage regulator for the CPU. Theres a very small chance it fried the CPU. If its under warranty, RMA it.

[Jaybird376]

Hello everyone,

Just thought I'd try and give you all an update about my current status, I'm still having some bizzare issues.

Fortunately Newegg RMA'd everything, so I got all my new parts yesterday. I put the system back together and it worked fine. First boot was a single beep on POST and XP installed smoothly.

Unfortunately, I've run into a small problem and I'm not sure what the cause is. The system seems to run fine, but I'm getting a strange Beep code on boot.

Reboots from BIOS or through XP are fine. I had no trouble durring the copious updating of software/rebooting that needed to be done.

However, when I turned off the system completely and started with a cold boot, I'd get a long beep that gets interupted by the single beep, that I commonly assume to mean everything posted fine. After the single beep, the system boots like it should and everything seems to work.

I got home today, after giving up on messing with it last night, and first boot was a clean single beep. Surprised by that fact, I shut the system down completely and booted it back up and the same problem as before occured.

The Mobo manual says a long beep followed by a short beep signifies a problem with the Motherboard or the RAM. I tried using the RAM in various places last night to no avail. It'd boot fine, but the beeping still occured.

I'm not sure what to do next. I'm letting the system stay off for a while to see if that makes a difference. The whole proper boot that happened when I got home just threw me for a loop.

I haven't done a ton of testing, I don't know if I should run a Memtest through Windows, or even try a full burn-in procedure, with what I'm not sure. I do know, now, that the motherboard has had some issues with RAM compatibility, but the Corsair RAM ony runs at 1.9V and I've already tried changing the voltage in the BIOS to boost the Mobo's 1.8 standard voltage.

Any suggestions you could make would be greatly appreciated. I could really use the help. This is the first computer build I've done that's ever gone wrong on me, so my diagnostic skills are sorely lacking.

Thanks,

Jaybird376

P.S. The parts are all the same as the ones I listed in my previous post.

[Skrying]

Did you try just one memory stick?

[Jaybird376]

Did you try just one memory stick?

Yea I tried each stick individually, in various slots on the board last night.

Same result each time, it boots and runs, but I get the wierd beep code

Part of me wonders if the issue is the BIOS not kicking in the upped voltage for the memory until it gets to the beep code. So there is the assumption the memory is bad, when in reality it's just underclocked by .1 volts.

I've got no idea though, I'm going to give the system another half-hour to sit and then try another cold boot to see if I get a clean boot just from waiting a while.

I'm confounded by this. I got no idea what to try.

[Jaybird376]

Friggin wierd....

I'd left the computer off from the time I set my first update until now, and it boots clean with a single beep at Post.

I don't have a clue what's going on now. Could there be a problem with the PC speaker itself, or that connection?

[Skrying]

Weird issue, you might seeing if their is a new BIOS update. I just built a system with the DS3 myself and my RAM needs 2.1v to hit the speeds I want it at, but I run into no boot issues and in fact the system handled my 12 hour "stress" test just fine (Orthos, Prime95, and looping of SuperPI :D).