View Full Version : So, is ClearLCD all it's cranked up to be?
london-boy
05-Sep-2006, 13:50
According to reviews...
It is... Philips 42PF9831D review at CNET.co.uk (http://reviews.cnet.co.uk/televisions/0,39030218,49278138,00.htm)
And the DigitalTrends review (http://reviews.digitaltrends.com/review3778_main18898.html)
The new Philips LCD range is apparently "in a league of their own" according to some, and just "very good " according to others.
It will be interesting to see how scanning backlight technology will evolve from now, as it seems to make things much easier on the eye for LCD tech.
On a brief viewing, the panel (S-IPS AFAIK) is impressive with canned HD sources. SD was surprisingly good given PP3 now works on HD sources, too. FW update availability/simplicity is a big plus. I'll wait until I see the new Sony X/V series. The updated Samsung with LED backlight is not too far off either.
P.S. Ambilight is bleh...
Mariner
05-Sep-2006, 17:01
Well, it's certainly eye-wateringly expensive! I'm very happy with my Tosh LCD but I'll be interested to see this Philips in the flesh to see where the differences lie.
AFAICT, the biggest problem with Philips LCD TVs has never been their picture quality.
Good links LB
Will LG use the same tech? IIRC LG and Philips share panel tech. LG is cheaper and usually has good conectivity like DVI.
P.S. Ambilight is bleh...Ambilight has a very high WAF.
london-boy
06-Sep-2006, 00:00
So far i've heard nothing about other companies using ClearLCD or similar technology, although i'm sure most manufacturers will move on from typical LCD backlight technologies in favour of new technology, like Samsung with LED.
We'll see.
Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.
06-Sep-2006, 00:34
I'm surprised that it doesn't do 1080p for that kind of price, especially as other companies are beginning to bring them out.
RobertR1
06-Sep-2006, 05:31
I'm waiting for SED :grin: but I'll be curious to check this out in a store, hopefully soon! Ty for the info.
So how does this ClearLCD work exactly?
I long had the idea of simply placing a second lowres monocrome LCD behind the colour one, to get better contrast/better dynamic range.
But I figured this was so obvious that there had to be a catch. But is this how ClearLCD works?
london-boy
19-Sep-2006, 12:56
So how does this ClearLCD work exactly?
I long had the idea of simply placing a second lowres monocrome LCD behind the colour one, to get better contrast/better dynamic range.
But I figured this was so obvious that there had to be a catch. But is this how ClearLCD works?
This effectively comprises two main components: Overdrive Control and a Dimmable Scanning Backlight. ODC's job is to ramp up the voltage applied to the LCD panel to speed up the liquid crystals' reaction time -- resulting, it's claimed, in a lightning-fast LCD response time of just 6ms.
The new backlight system, meanwhile, attempts to mimic the scanning effect of CRT TVs via new hot cathode fluorescent lamps that enable the TV to vary the amount of light in each pixel and the duration of time each pixel is lit -- two things not possible with standard LCD backlight systems, but which should make moving objects look cleaner and sharper. Also, since the new backlights in the 42PF9831D can have their output reduced by 30 per cent more than standard backlights, we should hopefully see noticeably deeper, more natural black levels (see Performance for more on this).
What it does, the backlight basically switches off after each frame to try and reproduce a movie effect and minimise motion blur... And it kinda works...
I thought about having one or more monochrome LCD screens behind the colour ones to improve blacks, but it's such a simple idea that i'm sure it has been tested and proved unsuccessful for whatever reason...?? :???:
Hey LB
Did you see it personally and close?
Is that true that ClearLCD doesnt work with HD signals? Saw that at AV forums.
london-boy
19-Sep-2006, 23:09
Is that true that ClearLCD doesnt work with HD signals? Saw that at AV forums.
Yep. Yet another Philips Mystery...
pakotlar
19-Sep-2006, 23:27
I've been waiting for scanning backlights for 2 years now. I'm excited to try this out. For all intents & purposes this tech should eliminate "ghosting" for the most part, and bring the tech much closer to CRT for response times. A lot of the motion artifacts we attribute to high lcd crystal response rate is really due to the constant on backlight. Our eyes percieve changes of state as a smear, since there is no "off" state in between. Exciting stuff.
And why the hell doesn't it work with HD sources? Nice job phillips...
london-boy
19-Sep-2006, 23:44
I've been waiting for scanning backlights for 2 years now. I'm excited to try this out. For all intents & purposes this tech should eliminate "ghosting" for the most part, and bring the tech much closer to CRT for response times. A lot of the motion artifacts we attribute to high lcd crystal response rate is really due to the constant on backlight. Our eyes percieve changes of state as a smear, since there is no "off" state in between. Exciting stuff.
And why the hell doesn't it work with HD sources? Nice job phillips...
They probably think that HD eliminates motion blur in LCDs! It's magic!! :lol:
I've been waiting for scanning backlights for 2 years now. I'm excited to try this out. For all intents & purposes this tech should eliminate "ghosting" for the most part, and bring the tech much closer to CRT for response times. A lot of the motion artifacts we attribute to high lcd crystal response rate is really due to the constant on backlight. Our eyes percieve changes of state as a smear, since there is no "off" state in between. Exciting stuff.
And why the hell doesn't it work with HD sources? Nice job phillips...
The overdrive technology is still used for HD sources - it seems it's the DSB stuff that's switched off.
But really the proof of the pudding is in the eating. If it delivers a fantastic HD image (which it seems to) does it really matter whether certain technology is switched on or not?
london-boy
20-Sep-2006, 10:22
The overdrive technology is still used for HD sources - it seems it's the DSB stuff that's switched off.
But really the proof of the pudding is in the eating. If it delivers a fantastic HD image (which it seems to) does it really matter whether certain technology is switched on or not?
Well i'm sure it delivers a great HD image, however it is just very odd that they would have a technology in the set that practically eliminates one of the biggest issues with LCD technology, and they would just turn it OFF while on HD...?
Mariner
20-Sep-2006, 12:39
And why the hell doesn't it work with HD sources? Nice job phillips...
The cynic in me would guess that ClearLCD 2.0 will support HD when Philips' next generation of screens is released in another 6 months or so. Gotta keep the high-end upgraders buying! :???:
london-boy
20-Sep-2006, 13:38
The cynic in me would guess that ClearLCD 2.0 will support HD when Philips' next generation of screens is released in another 6 months or so. Gotta keep the high-end upgraders buying! :???:
Yep that's the case unfortunately and Philips have been very transparent with this. Other manufacturers try to hide it, but Philips come out with these great new technologies which have the most glaring shortcomings, only to fix them in the next batch, at vastly overblown prices, adding a 2 or a 3 after the name.
Beats me...
Yep that's the case unfortunately and Philips have been very transparent with this. Other manufacturers try to hide it, but Philips come out with these great new technologies which have the most glaring shortcomings, only to fix them in the next batch, at vastly overblown prices, adding a 2 or a 3 after the name.
Beats me...
Not that I feel any real need to defend Philips, but where is the "glaring shortcoming" with this TV set? I'm getting confused as to why anyone would care about what's switched on or off unless it measurably affects what you're seeing.
london-boy
20-Sep-2006, 15:35
Not that I feel any real need to defend Philips, but where is the "glaring shortcoming" with this TV set? I'm getting confused as to why anyone would care about what's switched on or off unless it measurably affects what you're seeing.
Scanning backilght affects image quality by eliminating motion blur - a common shortcoming with LCD sets.
On HD, it's turned off, meaning that motion blur is back.
That's all. Hardly a huge deal, but it does make some people wonder.
Other shortcomings of the set is that sometimes, depending on the settings, very obvious MPEG macro blocking is displayed.
I'm not attacking Philips, i love them, i'm just reporting what i see on the AVForums.
Scanning backilght affects image quality by eliminating motion blur - a common shortcoming with LCD sets.And IIRC improve the black levels perception too.
london-boy
21-Sep-2006, 09:37
And IIRC improve the black levels perception too.
Absolutely :grin:
pakotlar
21-Sep-2006, 18:01
The overdrive technology is still used for HD sources - it seems it's the DSB stuff that's switched off.
But really the proof of the pudding is in the eating. If it delivers a fantastic HD image (which it seems to) does it really matter whether certain technology is switched on or not?
The overdrive tech does help with response times yes, but in no way does it address today's biggest shortcoming with LCD motion display. That's what the shuttered/scanning backlight is for (IIRC shuttered backlights were introduced by BenQ).
London-boy, I also have no idea why they would disable the sets biggest feature on HD programming. I doubt it has anything to do with the increase in resolution though (as far as tech issues are concerned; marketing need not apply). The tech is not reliant on the source resolution.
Mariner, I'm also guessing that you are right on the Clear LCD 2.0 thing. 6 months from now the "real" version will come out.
Hey companies make boneheaded decisions all the time. Cutting features like this after promoting them heavily (and not really documenting the limitations with regards to HD) is both misleading and pointless.
london-boy
21-Sep-2006, 18:39
Well it seems that (as i've already posted in the other thread) the Sony W-Series took the crown even against this Philips, apparently having better contrast and blacks than a Plasma... Which in itself is quite impressive even if they're exaggerating, as it would mean the set has very impressive blacks and contrast compared to LCD in general...
I'm surprised that it doesn't do 1080p for that kind of price, especially as other companies are beginning to bring them out.
LB linked to a screen available here in the UK. There are no screens or sources that run higher than 1366x768 here at present. Thats our one and only "HD signal". So, a tad better than 720p, but only half the resolution of 1080i/p. We arent expected to see the higher versions until 2009/10. It sucks.
I'm waiting for SED :grin: but I'll be curious to check this out in a store, hopefully soon! Ty for the info.
Dont be suprised if you still havent seen one in 2 years from now. I first heard about SED 4 years ago, still no viable hardware on it though.
london-boy
26-Sep-2006, 01:05
LB linked to a screen available here in the UK. There are no screens or sources that run higher than 1366x768 here at present. Thats our one and only "HD signal". So, a tad better than 720p, but only half the resolution of 1080i/p. We arent expected to see the higher versions until 2009/10. It sucks.
Who's "we"??
1080p perfectly capable of taking and displaying 1080p through HDMI and whatnot have been available here in the UK for months. That would be the Sony X-series.
Sony is releasing an "affordable" 1080p panel right now, the W-Series (should be out this week). It is said to have such image quality to rival Plasma wrt blacks and contrast, plus you get 1080p thrown in too. :grin:
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