9700 and 9700 pro

[CaptainHowdy]

I see on pricewatch there is a $50 price gap between the 9700 and the 9700 pro, what are the major differences in this card to make the price gap? would it be that drastic?
is it worth it for me to pay more for the pro?

[martrox]

The difference is the clocking of the GPU (275 for the 9700, 325 for the PRO) and the memory speed & clocking 275/3.6* for the 9700, 310/3.2* for the PRO). Also, you can overclock the PRO, but the bios of the 9700 keeps it from being overclocked - there is a fix, but it involves flashing the bios & will void your warranty.

* may be wrong about memory speed, but the important part is there is a difference.

[Nappe1]

The difference is the clocking of the GPU (275 for the 9700, 325 for the PRO) and the memory speed & clocking 275/3.6* for the 9700, 310/3.2* for the PRO). Also, you can overclock the PRO, but the bios of the 9700 keeps it from being overclocked - there is a fix, but it involves flashing the bios & will void your warranty.

* may be wrong about memory speed, but the important part is there is a difference.

Three of my friends and I have 9700 non-pro. at least 2 of these cards are manufactured by ATI. Any of these cards don't have locked bios. so overclocking of 9700 nonpro is possible

Plus, there's at least two different clocks on 9700 nonpro cards. myself I have Club3D Radeon 9700 nonpro with ATI's PCB and BBA bios. default clocks were suprisingly 297 MHz core / 263MHz (DDR526) Memory. after a small research, I noticed that only first import deliver to finland of these cards have these default clocks (several cards confirmed.) and later on Club3D nonpro's started to have the official 275/270 clocks. Only major difference seems to be that my card has Infineon BGA memory chips and it seems, that they can barely reach 275MHz, which they are specsed for. And propably for that reason, ATI has clocked memory lower and compensated it with higher core clock. in performance, cards don't have any noticeable difference on default clocks.

[martrox]

The difference is the clocking of the GPU (275 for the 9700, 325 for the PRO) and the memory speed & clocking 275/3.6* for the 9700, 310/3.2* for the PRO). Also, you can overclock the PRO, but the bios of the 9700 keeps it from being overclocked - there is a fix, but it involves flashing the bios & will void your warranty.

* may be wrong about memory speed, but the important part is there is a difference.

Three of my friends and I have 9700 non-pro. at least 2 of these cards are manufactured by ATI. Any of these cards don't have locked bios. so overclocking of 9700 nonpro is possible

Plus, there's at least two different clocks on 9700 nonpro cards. myself I have Club3D Radeon 9700 nonpro with ATI's PCB and BBA bios. default clocks were suprisingly 297 MHz core / 263MHz (DDR526) Memory. after a small research, I noticed that only first import deliver to finland of these cards have these default clocks (several cards confirmed.) and later on Club3D nonpro's started to have the official 275/270 clocks. Only major difference seems to be that my card has Infineon BGA memory chips and it seems, that they can barely reach 275MHz, which they are specsed for. And propably for that reason, ATI has clocked memory lower and compensated it with higher core clock. in performance, cards don't have any noticeable difference on default clocks.

Sorry, but ATI doesn't sell any of the retail 9000 series BUT the PRO's. All non PRO's are sold by other manufactures. And, while there are many non PRO's that may not be clock locked, most are. And I would never recommend to someone that a card is not locked when there is the slightest chance that the one they get might be. Better safe than not. Remember, this is info to help someone else out.......

[Nappe1]

...

Sorry, but ATI doesn't sell any of the retail 9000 series BUT the PRO's. All non PRO's are sold by other manufactures. And, while there are many non PRO's that may not be clock locked, most are. And I would never recommend to someone that a card is not locked when there is the slightest chance that the one they get might be. Better safe than not. Remember, this is info to help someone else out.......

well then, show me the card that has been locked.


I haven't seen any so far and I actively read over 6 boards. I know that Dave Baumann reported such thing here, but He reported also on the same post that 9500 series would have locked bios too. And we know already that it isn't locked even to protect from soft 9700 conversion. So when I started to see overclocking results with 9700 non pro, I thought that Dave or his source has mistaken... or perhaps some pre production boards / press samples had locked bios... in any case, I have seen huge threads about how non-pros overclock and still haven't seen anyone to comment that he/she would have locked bios.

Though, I haven't seen pretty good overclocks on non-pro either, due that memories don't clock very high. (well, 300 seems to be average on Hercules card.) core goes as high as PRO (usually gets 360-400 MHz, depending cooling). And though ATI don't sell them, they definately make boards. almost all first 9700 nonpros were having ATI's PCB as well as BIOS. Including mine. My card didn't have any texts talking about Club3D, but ATI all the way. (I could sell it as ATI 9700 nonpro and no one could suspect anything.)

and afaik, any manufacturer can lock their card whenever they want. they are selling product with advertized specs, so overclocking is just a free bonus. Whenever you are buying a card, you take a chance that you get first card that has locked bios, so it cannot be overclocked. this can happen on case of any card without depending manufacturer.

but in any case, if the thread starter is from europe, I can say that I have not found anyone saying that they would have got locked card since shipments 9700 non-pros began.

I am asking everyone having 9700 nonpro here to check if they have locked bios. I am heavily interested to see what's the deal.

[martrox]

Nappe 1, I figured since the prices quoted off of Pricewatch were what is currently available here in the states, that's where he's from. As far as the locked thing, it's been discussed plenty on Rage3D. You might also check out this review at HardOCP:

http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NDA5

Both the 9700 (non pro)& 9500PRO are locked.

[2B-Maverick]

full ack.
9700 and 9500Pro are locked in the BIOS
You just have to flash a different BIOS and can overclock all you want.

[Tagrineth]

My 9500 Pro was locked.

BIOS flashed with no problems.

[Nappe1]

umm... any of these locked cards are at Europe?
Because I still wonder how that can be that no one has been reporting such thing here.

well, at least mine isn't locked. I am 100% sure about that. overclocking shows instantly on benchmark results with my card.

*nappe1 goes do some searching at Rage3D...

[Nappe1]

okay...
I didn't get even to Rage3D... I found from finnish muropaketti.com that only the first cards were unlocked. it

so, I was wrong...

(as usual... but this time I was so damn lucky to get one of unlocked cards. NOT like before that I have been so unlucky... heck, Maybe I really should try to assure the world that "I do exist!" and next day I would be vanished like fart to the sahara. :P )

[martrox]

Well, I'd rather be lucky than smart..... and I'm sure many here will say I got my wish! :o :shock: :D