Official Retail PhysX Review Thread

[pelly]

Hey guys,

I've just posted my review of the 128MB BFG PhysX card over at Hot Hardware.

http://www.hothardware.com/viewarticle.aspx?articleid=816&cid=2

There's some useful animated comparisons showing effects with and without a discrete PPU. However, I'd be more interested to hear your thoughts on this bit of speculation regarding Microsoft:

"Pushing the industry to make a sudden and dramatic shift to using a discrete physics processor is an unbelievable task for even the largest and most pronounced hardware vendors. We certainly respect and commend Ageia for taking on a challenge of this magnitude, especially considering the size of the company. This just goes to show you how impressive the results can be when you have a team of motivated enthusiasts with a common goal. Regardless, we would not be surprised to see a major vendor come to Ageia's aid to give the hardware the necessary push to achieve mainstream adoption. Given Microsoft's interest as of late in developing a Physics API, could we see a day where Microsoft is driving the adoption of PPU's? Or perhaps Physics processing in the GPU stack? Although seemingly far-fetched at first, the company's development and grip on the popular DirectX API could force developers' hands in terms of having to support a discrete physics processor should Microsoft create such requirements."

Have a good one guys...

Pelly

[Geo]

Not quite sure where you're going with that Pelly. Do you mean vendor other than MS? And would MS necessarily help Physx, rather than Physics in general, wherever it was done? And, as someone has pointed out to me, depending on how the physics is integrated an an API it might throw the entire game to the GPU boys by definition.

Edit: Pelly, I just noticed the thread title on this.

Personally, I've always thought people worrying about "pimping" their own stuff was overdone most of the time. This board in part thrives by the willingness of its members to bring quality links here for discussion. So personally, I have no problem with you pointing at your own article here.

Even starting a new thread for it, hypothetically, wouldn't be bad if there wasn't a currently recently-active thread to hook onto. Except, there is, and I think more than one. But just for a quicky: http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30280

But a guy with 35 posts here starting a new thread to point at his own article and calling it "The Official. . . Reviews thread". . .well, Pelly, I would have hoped you'd been around the community long enough as a valued contributor at several sites to know that was more than a bit over the top. . .

[_xxx_]

Even starting a new thread for it, hypothetically, wouldn't be bad if there wasn't a currently recently-active thread to hook onto.

Or rather some 17.5 of them...

[Geo]

Does anyone but me find it disturbing that apparently steps have been taken to prevent GRAW from enabling the extra physics without the Physx in place? It would have been a handy dandy pre-made benchmark for them to allow you to run the extra physics in "cpu mode", and prove the worth of the PhysX accelerator vs CPU-alone for the same workloads. I mean, PhysX defenders have been w/h/i/n/i/n/g/ pointing at the "same workload" argument as the reason why current comparisons are so terribly unfair and biased. Yet they make it impossible to have an apples-to-apples comparison? Isn't this the parricide asking for mercy because he's an orphan?

Edit: It's been pointed out to me that the above could be interpreted as criticism of the game dev, Ubisoft. Such was not my intent, actually. If they made the decision on their own initiative to disallow cpu-only mode for the physics, then I'm just wrong in my comments above. Otoh, if such decision was made for them by the terms of their licensing agreement with Ageia, then I stand by the above comments while noting it's Ageia I'm smacking around with them, and not Ubisoft.

[digitalwanderer]

Isn't this the parricide asking for mercy because he's an orphan?
http://69.93.88.162/forum/images/smiles/rofl.gifhttp://69.93.88.162/forum/images/smiles/rofl.gifhttp://69.93.88.162/forum/images/smiles/rofl.gif

Pelly y'know I love ya and all, but why is it that everyone seems to be giving Ageia the benefit of the doubt lately? With the recent discovery of all the shilling Ageia is doing (http://www.elitebastards.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14805) it just seems to me that something ain't right. :???:

[chavvdarrr]

http://69.93.88.162/forum/images/smiles/rofl.gifhttp://69.93.88.162/forum/images/smiles/rofl.gifhttp://69.93.88.162/forum/images/smiles/rofl.gif

Pelly y'know I love ya and all, but why is it that everyone seems to be giving Ageia the benefit of the doubt lately? With the recent discovery of all the shilling Ageia is doing (http://www.elitebastards.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14805) it just seems to me that something ain't right. :???:
Since when one man (probably 15 y old) posting in several places means company X is "shilling" ? How do you know these posts were because of Ageia, not someone's self-initiative? the link you provided shows no proof anti_ageia as far as i see

[digitalwanderer]

Since when one man (probably 15 y old) posting in several places means company X is "shilling" ? How do you know these posts were because of Ageia, not someone's self-initiative? the link you provided shows no proof anti_ageia as far as i see
Did you also check out this bit (http://forums.hexus.net/showpost.php?p=759970&postcount=23)? :lol:

[Geo]

Well, he needs this too to make sense of what you're pointing at. . .http://forums.hexus.net/showpost.php?p=760247&postcount=27

[mjtdevries]

Well, that bit isn't proof that Ageia themselves are involved either.

Although it's the grammar is not what you would expect from a typical 15 year old ******.
It looks more like a reply from someone at Ageia, but that again is not proof.

[mjtdevries]

Thanks Geo!

That extra bit was indeed needed to make sense of Digi's post. :)

[digitalwanderer]

Sorry about that, I just keep forgetting how clunky and nasty HEXUS' board software is. :oops:

My apologies, I should have linked it better.

[pelly]

Hey guys,

I'm sorry if anyone misinterpreted my post as some "self-pimping" attempt. Rather, my goal was to create a single location for people to talk about retail PhysX review and to throw a curveball from my review out there and see what you guys thought of it. Granted, the whole GPU vendor involvement in physics has been talked about for a long time now. However, I think the notion of Microsoft having a great deal of power to dictate physics within their DX API is an interesting topic of discussion.

As for the number of posts, I firmly believe that there are plenty who will remember my appearances in these forums from ages ago.....from my time at nV News to HardOCP to PC Perspective and now Hot Hardware.

Just because I don't chime in on every subject doesn't mean I haven't been in these forums for years. Dig and others should be able to back me up on this... :)

Feel free to rename, consolidate, etc this thread....Having several PhysX- review related threads is painful for all of us.

-Pelly

[digitalwanderer]

I'm just in a digging mood on Ageia right now Pelly, I think there is more to this whole story and I think we're all missing it.

[pelly]

"I think there is more to this whole story and I think we're all missing it"

Rest assured....you'll be hearing more from me on this subject shortly... ;)

[digitalwanderer]

Are you at E3 Pelly?

[pelly]

For the first time in five years, no....I'm not at E3....

Rather, I'm at my other full-time job...Project Manager for a Home A/V Company called Russound.

Rest assured though, I have more than a few close ties that keep me in the loop at the backroom antics of E3... ;)

[Geo]

Oddly enuf, I read that the first time as "the bedroom antics of E3". My dyslexia at play. . .tho perhaps not all that inaccurate either. :lol:

[kyleb]

Heh, I'd guess the bedroom antics have been cut back quite a bit since they banned the booth girls. :D

[dizietsma]

Someone explain to me the logic of the physics add in card ? As far as I can see you get some extra effects that you do not get without it but the frame rate goes down. Surely this is the same as just putting in some extra effects for the cpu to do and the frame rate goes down, except of couse in this case you have to pay £200 for the hit.

Surely the only reason to spend this money is to have the extra effects with no descrease in frame rate or have the same level of effects and the frame rate to go up ?

I'm not convinced.

[SlmDnk]

Here's all the new PhysX reviews, previews and articles that I've seen on the net so far: http://personal.inet.fi/atk/kjh2348fs/ageia_physx.html#reviews



On a side note... it's interesting that Crytek will not be supporting PhysX (http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2006/05/11/crysis_playtest) in Crysis but the physics of it are the most impressive I've ever seen in a game :) Especially impressive in the DirectX 10 clip from E3 (http://www3.incrysis.com/inCrysis_dot_com_first_DX10_Crysis_footage.zip) that shows smoke and fire reacting to forces etc...

[Cartoon Corpse]

is this chip on the shelves yet?

looks like there's no hurry, since im not really interested in the titles currently using it. till gothic3, i guess, and that seems like a minimal exploit (eye candy only)...and some others releasing next fall.

i hope there's something fantastic coming this summer i don't know about yet. looks like another gaming drought...my new rig (fx60,x1900xtx,etc) is starving! can't survive on oblivion alone! not all summer!

im still gonna get a PPU when they hit the shelves..whenever that is.

[kyleb]

Heh, if you want GR to run slower and have random looking rubble added to the explosions then why wait when you can spend $300 online for one today. :D

[John Reynolds]

www.zipzoomfly.com (http://www.zipzoomfly.com) had some BFG cards in-stock yesterday. Check under video cards (which makes perfect sense).

[Geo]

Check under video cards (which makes perfect sense).

Well, I think so! But we still keep talking about it in the Hardware ghetto (B3D-wise "ghetto", that is).

[IgnorancePersonified]

Yes but using that logic geo cpu discussion would be in that area too. Face it - your lazy and want all threads in one area :wink:

[Geo]

Yes but using that logic geo cpu discussion would be in that area too. Face it - your lazy and want all threads in one area :wink:

Well, I don't see that as either/or, actually. Yes, I'm lazy --but I do think physics has more claim to be in 3DTech than cpu does. Clearly the gpu IHV's are deeply interested in the area, and are hoping to take it over. I don't think they're trying to throttle Intel and AMD! :wink:

[Cartoon Corpse]

www.zipzoomfly.com (http://www.zipzoomfly.com) had some BFG cards in-stock yesterday. Check under video cards (which makes perfect sense).

shoulda thought of that. i was looking for a new category.

Rush lyric sig. nice. im an ex drummer...neil is/was one of my faves (though i don't claim to have his chops)

"if you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice" came to mind when i read yours....that and "brilliant red bargetta"...which is a song i never understood

[Chalnoth]

I thought HardOCP (http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTA1MiwxLCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==)'s writeup about the PhysX was pretty good.