Dell 2407WFP Details Leaked [Archive]

hoom

27-Mar-2006, 07:02

I wants one!
Was actually looking seriously at the Acer AL2416W one using the same panel last week but locally we can only get the W (analogue input only) rather than the AL2416WD with DVI.
Was told this was coming out soon though & now specs to match.

Would give me a good excuse to finally get round to that major PC upgrade I've been putting off too. (been waiting on an affordable 2.6ghz dual core A64 but they just don't seem to be coming any closer :( )

Via this thread (http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28554) apparently the specs are to be found here (http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/monitors/2407WFP/en/about.htm#Specifications)

hoom

31-Mar-2006, 06:42

Argh! The 2407 is still not announced but Dell NZ have been cranking down the prices on the 05 & its getting mighty attractively cheap...

hoom

27-Apr-2006, 14:30

Apologies for triple post but I just ordered a 2407 off the NZ Dell website :)

[maven]

09-Jun-2006, 08:43

I got my 2407WFP yesterday, and it is very nice. Moving up from a 2005FPW, it's good to have a uniform backlight for once. It's an A01 revision, and there is some banding in desktop mode (slightly worse than my 2005), but in Gaming or Theatre mode, it becomes very visible (on non-natural images).

hoom

10-Jun-2006, 12:50

Hmm, yeah I got one too. A00
Banding on DVI was yucky (skyboxes in games show it well eg Rome:Total War which I play a lot of), on VGA the banding is much reduced & certainly compares favourably with other LCDs I've seen.

A01/02 have a firmware fix that turns off the Faroudja visual processing that causes the DVI banding on the Desktop mode but they need to do a panel swap to do it, mine is hopefully on the way soon.
Not clear what the difference between A01 & A02 is though.

Firmware fix also applies to 2007wfp.

inefficient

10-Jun-2006, 16:44

I just bought a 2407WFP today online from Dell Japan because currently it is GOD DAMN CHEAP!

The current special campaign price is 79,000yen $693.134 USD!!! Free shipping too.

The normal price is 157,500yen ($1,381.88 USD)

From Dell USA it is still listed at $1,349

For just under $700 I could not pass it up. I have an inkling that they might be trying to dump all the A00 and A01 models off. But for just $700, I don't care if there is a little banding.

I'll post an update once it arrives. Anyone living in Japan might want to take advantage of this.

http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/1942/clipboard029tc.jpg

inefficient

14-Jun-2006, 15:27

It has arrived!!! Certainly the best $700 I have ever spent on HW! Going from a 19" to a 24" is just wow.

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/2074/2407fwp5dk.jpg

So far everything looks beautiful.

John Reynolds

14-Jun-2006, 17:14

I went from a 21" Trinitron-based CRT to a 2405 last fall and really enjoyed the upgrade. If you're a gamer, bookmark www.widescreengamingforums.com (http://www.widescreengamingforums.com).

Guden Oden

14-Jun-2006, 19:59

Problem for me is, if I was to upgrade my poor gfx card would never cope with going from 1280*1024 rez to 1920 or whatever * 1200... It'd roll over and die. I'd have to upgrade that too, and then I'd have to upgrade everything else too, because my PC can't support a high-end card. It'd be uber expensive... :(

hoom

14-Jun-2006, 20:20

Yeh, my 9800np has been coping surprisingly well but its simply not got the grunt to handle most games at full res.

Lower resolutions are actually coming out pretty well compared to my earlier experience with LCDs.

The big upgrade is still on hold pending what happens with Conroe/A64 x2 pricing/performance when Conroe is released.
Of course, then R600 & K8L will be calling to me :???:

swaaye

14-Jun-2006, 21:59

Moloch

14-Jun-2006, 22:19

IMO any graphical downsides of the LCDs are utterly meaningless to me in comparison with the hugely superior immersion you get with the screen area. OMG it's just something else and I encourage everyone to strongly consider these huge screens.

I've been running a 2405FPW for about 9 months now and I have just been happy since day one. Yeah there's banding, and the backlight is bad for black, but OMG is it something else to play games with this. Games just feel more tangible somehow. It's like Halo on the 40" TV vs. Halo PC. Halo may not be the best shooter, but the huge TV makes up for it somehow.
I played halo 2 on with a projector shooting on the wall and the huge jaggies bugged the shit out of me.
640x480 interlaced just is lame, the jaggies are so freaking noticeable I can't stand it.
huge ugly jaggies.. ya that's wonderfull :roll:
You'd have a much better argument with xbox360 since games run at 720P.
You can get big crts.. you do realize that don't you?

[maven]

14-Jun-2006, 22:33

Problem for me is, if I was to upgrade my poor gfx card would never cope with going from 1280*1024 rez to 1920 or whatever * 1200...
I'm driving my 2407 with a Radeon 9200 w/ 32mb RAM in a Mac mini. :'(
(which in itself answer the question how games run on that — there aren't any ;)).

ANova

15-Jun-2006, 10:44

I played halo 2 on with a projector shooting on the wall and the huge jaggies bugged the shit out of me.
640x480 interlaced just is lame, the jaggies are so freaking noticeable I can't stand it.
huge ugly jaggies.. ya that's wonderfull :roll:
I don't see where he mentioned anything about aliasing or running stuff at 640x480; you'll get that no matter what kind of display you use. No, we're talking 1920x1200 on a freakishly large and flat 24" screen.

Guden Oden

15-Jun-2006, 11:40

I recently fooled around with Half-Life 2 and World of Warcraft in widescreen by hooking up my old PC (P4 1.7 + GF3) to my Sony LCD TV via DVI, and the change in aspect from standard 4:3 was quite a difference! The TV is 1280*768 native, so the rez isn't as high as the Dell widescreen monitors, but man, you can see the difference immediately just from the widescreen format!

I've gamed with my 360 on that TV, but those games are unique to the 360. HL2 and WoW I've played for a million years each in 4:3 aspect, and seeing them in widescreen instead makes a giant impact.

Awesome.

Natoma

18-Jun-2006, 09:06

Has it been set in stone whether it will be a 6 or 8 bit panel?

epic

6bit panel (http://www.trustedreviews.com/article.aspx?art=3041).

The Samsung SyncMaster 244T (http://www.trustedreviews.com/article.aspx?art=2662) remains the only 24" LCD with sub 12ms gray-to-gray using an 8bit panel.

That's my purchase in a month unless someone comes up with something to top it. :)

Moloch

18-Jun-2006, 21:03

I don't see where he mentioned anything about aliasing or running stuff at 640x480; you'll get that no matter what kind of display you use. No, we're talking 1920x1200 on a freakishly large and flat 24" screen.
Halo 1 and 2 runs can run at 480P highest possible right?
I'm assuming he's talking about xbox version, if it's halo 1 it can be on pc, but halo 2 is only xbox.
read the post I was quoting- It's like Halo on the 40" TV vs. Halo PC. Halo may not be the best shooter, but the huge TV makes up for it somehow.

hoom

18-Jun-2006, 21:21

The Samsung SyncMaster 244T remains the only 24" LCD with sub 12ms gray-to-gray using an 8bit panel. The obvious problem with this statement being that the 2407 actually uses the same panel as the 244T.

Natoma

18-Jun-2006, 22:26

The obvious problem with this statement being that the 2407 actually uses the same panel as the 244T.
Maybe you should read the link I posted. It's using a 6bit panel, not 8bit.

The changes from the 2405FPW are thus: the new panel is now based on S-PVA technology rather than PVA, the upshot of which is that response time is down from 12ms grey-to-grey to only 6ms. However, to achieve this Dell has switched to a 6-bit panel, rather than the 8-bit used on the 2405. The black to white time is the same however, which indicates a more aggressive overdrive mode on the new panel to reach the lower figure. The other change is the addition of HDCP support over DVI, which is important if the technology is employed in HD-DVD and Blu-ray, and if Sky chooses to use it on its HD box.

...................

Working with large high-res images, I actually couldn’t see any effects of the banding, but colours and details did look subdued compared to the best I’ve seen. Comparing with other monitors it was a little like the difference between 16-bit and 32-bit colour, though not nearly as extreme. This is clearly the result of Dell moving from an 8-bit to a 6-bit panel. However, it’s still an issue and if colour accuracy is important in your line of work then I wouldn’t recommend this screen.

....................

Dell has produced another fine large display at a good price, but minor flaws in image quality mean that unless Dell can lower its prices, we can only recommend choosing the Samsung 244T instead.

willardjuice

19-Jun-2006, 03:51

That's my purchase in a month unless someone comes up with something to top it. :)

Cnet didn't give it such a glowing review. (http://reviews.cnet.com/Samsung_SyncMaster_244T/4505-3174_7-31580454-2.html?tag=nav)

I wish there was just one really good LCD monitor with no ghosting. I am tempted to get the 2405, but I heard the DVD playback (from CNET) was below par (ghosting), plus I am worried about the lack of HDCP support. I am not too sure what 24 inch LCD to get now. :sad:

I'm leaning toward the 244T, but that Cnet review scares me.

hoom

19-Jun-2006, 07:11

Maybe you should read the link I posted. It's using a 6bit panel, not 8bit. I've read it indeed but its wrong.
This (http://www.samsung.com/Products/TFTLCD/common/product_list.aspx?family_cd=LCD07) is a list of the LCD panels that Samsung produces.
Only 2 of them are 24 inches.
Both the M1 & M2 are listed as 16.7million colours.
The LTM240M1 was used by the 2405
The 2407 has the LTM240M2.
The 244T uses the LTM240M2.
The Acer AL2416W(D) also uses the LTM240M2.

Edit: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/dell_2xx7wfp.htm
Dell 2407WFP – The design, updated S-PVA panel from Samsung (LTM240M2), 6ms G2G response time now instead of 12ms G2G, HDCP support over DVI connection.

Note: You can find all other models including the Samsung 244T, ACER AL2416W and Eizo S2410W which use the LTM240M2 panel by using the panel search tool

kyniskos

19-Jun-2006, 11:52

That article is saying the 2407 is using different panels according to model;
A00 - V1B11, LTM240M2
A00+ Interim update - V1B15, LTM240LM2
A01 - V1B15, LTM240L2
A02 - V1B15, LTM240L2

I remember having read on the net the 2407 was a 6-bit panel, but now going to Dells homesite, i don't find any mension of either 6-bit or 8-bit. NADA. Nothing in the tecspecs.:?:

kyniskos

19-Jun-2006, 12:26

Sorry for the double post. My bad. :oops: Found it at the american site. 16.7 mill colours [sic]:wink: . Indeed an 8-bit panel. Hmf. Where did the story of 6-bit come from?

inefficient

19-Jun-2006, 13:13

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/dell_2xx7wfp.htm

That is a useful site indeed. It shows you how to access the hidden ‘factory’ OSD menu

Anyway the panel I bought is a A01 - V1B15, LTM240L2. It's not clear what is better about the A02 revision, but the A01 seems to at least fix all the issues with fuzzy text.

I'm comparing with a Samsung 193P - a pretty nice little 19" PVA panel. 20ms response, 800:1 Contast, Brightness 250cd/m2.

Of course the the first thing that stands out about the 2407 vs the 193Pis the size. But the next biggest thing that stands out is the brightness. You can obviously tell the 2407 is much much brighter. And on paper it's supposed to be 500 cd/m2 - twice as bright as the 193P.

I can see some banding in some really contrived situations. But if I turned the brightness down to 193P levels, it would probably be even less noticable. When looking at natural images, I don't see this as a much of a downside at all - so far...

One area where the 2407 is much worse than the 193P to my eyes is motion induced streaking. I don't know if it is just my eyes or what, but a dark image moving over a light backgroup causes some pretty noticable streaking. This might have something to do with the panel being so bright - I don't know. Light objects moving on a dark background seem to have no problem. It's like the dark to light time is much slower than the light to dark response time.

For games, so far I don't really notice any significant difference between this 6ms screen and the 20ms screen. Both are locked at 60hz - I haven't really researched the technical reasons for why they didn't allow higher refresh rates on the 2407.

I have to say, now that I have wide screen for gaming. There are not nearly enough wide screen games! Too many games I have to play at 1280x1024 or 1600x1200. And while it looks much better than I expected, its not half as good as a real wide screen res.

Playing FPS games, I feel a bit disorentated with the wide screen. After playing at 4:3 so long, I find it hard to aim accurately. It might just be something that takes getting used to. TombRaider Legend looks amazing in widescreen. Any racing game looks amazing as well.

willardjuice

19-Jun-2006, 15:45

Sorry for the double post. My bad. Found it at the american site. 16.7 mill colours [sic] . Indeed an 8-bit panel. Hmf. Where did the story of 6-bit come from?

From Trustedreviews who asked a Dell European Product Manager. And the widespread color banding issues seem to support the claim. I really wanted to get a 2407 too. :sad: But the 244T looks promising (save the Cnet review).

It's not clear what is better about the A02 revision

I remember reading they disabled some feature in desktop mode (left it on in the other modes) to reduce the color banding (but did not eliminate it). Not sure about anything else.

Blazkowicz

19-Jun-2006, 18:23

For games, so far I don't really notice any significant difference between this 6ms screen and the 20ms screen. Both are locked at 60hz - I haven't really researched the technical reasons for why they didn't allow higher refresh rates on the 2407.

DVI bandwith does not allow better than 60Hz at 1920x1200.

willardjuice

19-Jun-2006, 23:43

I think I am just going to wait for the Samsung 245T and see how that fairs.

hoom

20-Jun-2006, 01:40

Its Faroudja colour processing that is disabled on desktop mode for A01 & A02.

Main place I've noticed coulour banding is in the skybox of games.

From Trustedreviews who asked a Dell European Product Manager.Again, if its true that the panel on the 2407 is 6bit, so is the panel on the 244T because they are the same panel.

The different panel designation LTM240L2 on the A01 & A02 is presumably a typo since Dell say that the difference is firmware turning off Faroudja processing & a couple of other tweaks.
Replacing the whole panel is very unlikely.

willardjuice

20-Jun-2006, 02:45

Again, if its true that the panel on the 2407 is 6bit, so is the panel on the 244T because they are the same panel.

Not true. The panel is half the story, it is possible that the 2407 only processes 6-bit through the electronic components in order to gain a faster response time.

Also in revisions A01 and A02, the 2407 uses an updated panel than the 244T uses, so technically they are not the same. Either way there still is a color banding problem (though it is not as bad anymore), which is sad news. :cry:

Natoma

20-Jun-2006, 06:31

Not true. The panel is half the story, it is possible that the 2407 only processes 6-bit through the electronic components in order to gain a faster response time.

Also in revisions A01 and A02, the 2407 uses an updated panel than the 244T uses, so technically they are not the same. Either way there still is a color banding problem (though it is not as bad anymore), which is sad news. :cry:
Indeed. It uses a 6bit + 2bit FRC in order to achieve the 4ms response time. That's why the banding and the color saturation appear inferior to the 2405 Dell model as well as the 244T Samsung model.

It's also done to shave costs.

The Dell 2407WFP solution is somewhat akin to 3dfx's 22-bit-output-but-rendering-internally-at-32-bit shenanigans from years back. Sacrifice color accuracy and use a dither to approximate image quality in order to gain speed.

However if you're a stickler for image quality and color accuracy, the 2407WFP apparently isn't for you.

As for CNET, pfft. I haven't trusted a review from CNET in years. They're rather amateur and have been since their major tech heads left after the net bubble burst.

I rank them no higher than SharkyExtreme these days. :wink:

willardjuice

20-Jun-2006, 16:25

However if you're a stickler for image quality and color accuracy, the 2407WFP apparently isn't for you

Are you going to wait for the 245T? I think I am. I heard the 244T doesn't do HDCP over 1080P; not sure if it is true or not. I am just afraid about how much the 245T is going to cost. :cry:

Natoma

20-Jun-2006, 19:17

Are you going to wait for the 245T? I think I am. I heard the 244T doesn't do HDCP over 1080P; not sure if it is true or not. I am just afraid about how much the 245T is going to cost. :cry:
The 244T does HDCP over DVI-D. No worries. :)

And 245T? It's announced?

willardjuice

20-Jun-2006, 19:42

The 244T does HDCP over DVI-D. No worries. :)

And 245T? It's announced?

Yeah but at 1080P? I cannot find a direct answer. For example, the 2407 only does HDCP at 720P, not 1080P. BenQ just announced the "first" LCD monitor that supports 1080P with HDCP; so that led me to believe that the 244T does not support HDCP at 1080P.

The 245T was announced at some show, I'll dig it up later, and it will use Samsung's new panel (I believe it is the panel the 2407 rev. A01/A02 uses). I'm thinking the 245T will definitely support HDCP over 1080P and reduce the response time a bit (not much). Not too sure when it will come out though. :???:

Natoma

20-Jun-2006, 19:51

Yeah but at 1080P? I cannot find a direct answer. For example, the 2407 only does HDCP at 720P, not 1080P. BenQ just announced the "first" LCD monitor that supports 1080P with HDCP; so that led me to believe that the 244T does not support HDCP at 1080P.

The 245T was announced at some show, I'll dig it up later, and it will use Samsung's new panel (I believe it is the panel the 2407 rev. A01/A02 uses). I'm thinking the 245T will definitely support HDCP over 1080P and reduce the response time a bit (not much). Not too sure when it will come out though. :???:
That doesn't make any sense. The only way I could see that happening is if there were different DVI outputs, i.e. DVI-D (Digital), DVI-A (Analog), or DVI-I (combination of both).

DVI-D should in fact support HDCP on all resolutions via that link if specified by the manufacturer. In the case of the 244T, that includes 720p, 1080i, and 1080p, as well as the other resolutions the monitor supports.

It's quite possible to have a monitor that has DVI-D and DVI-A connections, supporting HDCP over DVI-D only up to 720p, and supporting non-HDCP 1080p on DVI-A. Don't know why anyone would do that, but that's the only logical solution I can see.

I'll look into it further and see if there's anything I can come up with.

willardjuice

20-Jun-2006, 21:53

That doesn't make any sense. The only way I could see that happening is if there were different DVI outputs, i.e. DVI-D (Digital), DVI-A (Analog), or DVI-I (combination of both).

I know, it didn't make sense to me either, but I am fairly sure the 2407 only supports HDCP at 720P. Which would also explain why BenQ has come out with the "first" LCD monitor to support HDCP at 1080P. I am not sure why they would make that claim if it was common knowledge that many LCD monitors supported HDCP at 1080P.

Natoma

20-Jun-2006, 22:18

willardjuice

20-Jun-2006, 22:33

All of the reviews that I've read state that the 244T supports HDCP at all resolutions over DVI-D. So I'm inclined to believe that that is the case unless told otherwise.

When I get my LCD I'll check the manual and sue for improper advertisement if that's the case though. :wink:

I wish there was HDCP 1080P material that we could test this with so I could know for sure. :sad:

Also can you test the input lag for me on 244T when you get it, I heard it is a little shaky.

hoom

24-Jun-2006, 02:42

It uses a 6bit + 2bit FRC in order to achieve the 4ms response time. That's why the banding and the color saturation appear inferior to the 2405 Dell model as well as the 244T Samsung model.That does make sense & I conceed, though the review originally posted did not state this as its explanation for use of '6-bit'.

Not that I intend to actually use HDCP but the decision of Dell to use components that can only process an HDCP signal at 720p is mindboggling.
I mean, why would you bother with HDCP at all on a 1920*1200 monitor if you aren't going to actually support it at 1080i at least?

Moloch

24-Jun-2006, 07:38

I wish there was HDCP 1080P material that we could test this with so I could know for sure. :sad:

Also can you test the input lag for me on 244T when you get it, I heard it is a little shaky.
You can get pleanty of 1080P content from microsoft and apple.

Natoma

25-Jun-2006, 21:37

That does make sense & I conceed, though the review originally posted did not state this as its explanation for use of '6-bit'.

Not that I intend to actually use HDCP but the decision of Dell to use components that can only process an HDCP signal at 720p is mindboggling.
I mean, why would you bother with HDCP at all on a 1920*1200 monitor if you aren't going to actually support it at 1080i at least?

Checkbox feature, cost, and speed. In the end it's just business. Same reason ATI and Nvidia say they support HDCP in their x1900 and 7900 series of cards when apparently they really don't.

Natoma

25-Jun-2006, 21:37

You can get pleanty of 1080P content from microsoft and apple.

Was looking for 1080P HDCP content. I don't think that exists yet.

bronxbombers

14-Jul-2006, 00:07

Indeed. It uses a 6bit + 2bit FRC in order to achieve the 4ms response time. That's why the banding and the color saturation appear inferior to the 2405 Dell model as well as the 244T Samsung model.

It's also done to shave costs.

The Dell 2407WFP solution is somewhat akin to 3dfx's 22-bit-output-but-rendering-internally-at-32-bit shenanigans from years back. Sacrifice color accuracy and use a dither to approximate image quality in order to gain speed.

However if you're a stickler for image quality and color accuracy, the 2407WFP apparently isn't for you.

As for CNET, pfft. I haven't trusted a review from CNET in years. They're rather amateur and have been since their major tech heads left after the net bubble burst.

I rank them no higher than SharkyExtreme these days. :wink:

very interesting, when I looked at the screen from like half inch away I thought I almost saw some dither dots on the 2407 on gradients. THis also likely explains why gradients are often worse in one direction that the other, since with the system you lit above and the crystal orientation it kinda makes sense.

anyway, yeah, that CNET review is full of it about the poor DVD playback. What are they even saying when they say DVD playback on this monitor demonstrates that it introduces noise?? If it did that, then your desktop would also be a laughable mess of noise. did they view DVD frome external player hooked up through Svideo??

believe me I tried 2407 and 244t side by side and 244t is clearly better at DVD playback through DVI, nevermind graphic design stuff where it totally destroys it. you can even turn brightness way down and still retain full shadow detail (which CNET reviewer apparently considers to be noise, or perhaps it's nice response time didn't blur away fine details and this revelation was considered to be noise by the reviewer. come on, don't downgrade a monitor for revealing whatever little specs are actually in the original signal!) unlike with the 2407. 244t has simply superb gamma control and default profile, starts at bright white and perfectly fades to pitch black only just at very last line, with no banding.

2407 also suffers from this weird affect where a darker image like mouse shadow moving across a bright gray window leaves this few pixel wide overbright sort of glow (again only through DVI connection, fine through VGA).

Natoma

01-Oct-2006, 23:25

willardjuice

02-Oct-2006, 01:47

After doing some more searching, it appears that the 245t is not going to be any different than the 244t save for the ability to change the height of the monitor. Everything else is going to remain the same apparently.

Yeah but the 2047 has a new revision (A03) which fixes all the banding issues. And at a much lower price, it's starting to look pretty competitive to the 244T/245T. Though I am going to wait to see how the BenQ fairs, Trustedreview gave it a perfect 10 out of 10.

Natoma

02-Oct-2006, 14:29

Yeah but the 2047 has a new revision (A03) which fixes all the banding issues. And at a much lower price, it's starting to look pretty competitive to the 244T/245T. Though I am going to wait to see how the BenQ fairs, Trustedreview gave it a perfect 10 out of 10.

When is the new revision out?

willardjuice

02-Oct-2006, 17:44

When is the new revision out?

The A03 revision is out now.

The BenQ monitor should be out soon(ish).

Natoma

02-Oct-2006, 18:36

I'll need to see a review of the A03 revision before deciding on the dell. A02 was savaged pretty heavily by trusted review in comparison to the 244t, with respect to image quality and color clarity. If all of those issues were resolved with the A03 revision then it'll become interesting to me. :)

Natoma

02-Oct-2006, 21:20

The A03 revision is out now.

The BenQ monitor should be out soon(ish).

You weren't talking about http://www.benq.com/products/LCD/?product=812 / http://www.trustedreviews.com/article.aspx?art=3425 were you?

willardjuice

02-Oct-2006, 21:22

Yeah, Trusted Review (http://www.trustedreviews.com/article.aspx?page=8154&head=0) seemed to like it a lot.

Natoma

02-Oct-2006, 21:25

Yeah, Trusted Review (http://www.trustedreviews.com/article.aspx?page=8154&head=0) seemed to like it a lot.

K. I did a search and that monitor is supposed to ship around october 10th. They really gushed over it :lol:

Davros

02-Oct-2006, 21:26

Natoma

02-Oct-2006, 21:33

Well I found some differences between the LCDs.

1) The Samsung 244t's height can't be changed. The BenQ can.

2) The Samsung has a firewire port and two USB ports. The BenQ has two USB ports.

3) The Samsung doesn't have HDMI port. The BenQ does.

4) The Samsung on/off rate is 24ms I believe. BenQ is 16ms.

I think the BenQ LCD is the better monitor.

Natoma

02-Oct-2006, 21:34

one thing ive found out when evaluating lcd monitors
look at the specs from the monitor manufactuer
then look at the specs that the company who make the lcd screen put out
ive found out that a lot of monitor makers lie about how many colours they can produce
ive seen 6bit panels quoted as 16.8million colours

Yea, Dell tried that with the 2407WFP, i.e. quoting 16.7 million colours when they only have a 6-bit panel. :roll:

Samsung and BenQ have been honest however. BenQ more honest though, in that they quote their on/off rate as well.

nutball

03-Oct-2006, 08:28

It's a shame that BenQ doesn't come with a built-in memory card reader like the Dell does. Always struck me as quite a useful feature.

Natoma

03-Oct-2006, 20:20

It's a shame that BenQ doesn't come with a built-in memory card reader like the Dell does. Always struck me as quite a useful feature.

Memory card reader?

[maven]

03-Oct-2006, 20:41

Memory card reader?

SD card / Memory Stick / Compact Flash / MMC readers on the Dell...

Moloch

04-Oct-2006, 00:40

Yea, Dell tried that with the 2407WFP, i.e. quoting 16.7 million colours when they only have a 6-bit panel. :roll:

Samsung and BenQ have been honest however. BenQ more honest though, in that they quote their on/off rate as well.

I thought that was caused by a bug and fixed via firmware :???:

willardjuice

04-Oct-2006, 00:48

It was, the 2407 is an 8 bit panel.

Natoma

04-Oct-2006, 00:52

Err,

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showpost.php?p=778475&postcount=21

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showpost.php?p=779149&postcount=32

willardjuice

04-Oct-2006, 02:59

Err,

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showpost.php?p=778475&postcount=21

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showpost.php?p=779149&postcount=32

I know I originally thought it was a 6 bit panel, but it turns out that dell's "Faroudja image processing" was the banding culprit. You can test this because only in desktop mode (with the new revisions) is the Faroudja processing disabled, put the 2407 in any other mode (which has the Faroudja processing on) and the color banding returns.

Natoma

04-Oct-2006, 15:39

That would mean Trustedreview was incorrect in their assessment of the 2407WFP as well, not to mention several other reviews. You sure about that?

Btw, the BenQ monitor is available now: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824014124&ATT=24-014-124&CMP=OTC-Froogle

Cartoon Corpse

04-Oct-2006, 16:24

what's the dead/stuck pixel rate on these displays? i hear each mfg has different standard for what's acceptable to ship. and that every LCD monitor has some dead pixels right out of the box. and some companies won't allow you to get a replacement display. is dell or samsung one of those companies?

Sxotty

04-Oct-2006, 18:07

Cartoon Corpse

04-Oct-2006, 19:15

Well you heard wrong, b/c not every LCD monitor has dead pixels. That is FUD

really? i think i read it in either one of those maximum pc type mags, or maybe even a pc gamer UK issue?

anyone out there have any dead/stuck pixels? how noticeable is it?

Pete

04-Oct-2006, 20:29

Either you read wrong or they wrote wrong, b/c a stuck pixel isn't guaranteed. The mere fact that I've seen one LCD without a single stuck or dead pixel disproves that statement. :)

As to how noticable, it depends on 1) color, 2) location, and 3) your sensitivity to such defects. So, it's hard to say, easier for you to judge in person. If you're worried, surely there are stores (such as Costco and maybe Circuit City) with return policies good enough to remove it from the equation.

BeHardware did a series of articles on various manufacturer's stuck/dead pixel policies, if you're interested.

Cartoon Corpse

04-Oct-2006, 21:27

mere fact that I've seen one LCD

lol! only one? do most LCDs have at least some?

another question. is it a big operation to get LCD widescreen up and running problem free for most games? will it do both 4:3 and widescreen? like for older games.

Malo

04-Oct-2006, 21:48

I could say I haven't seen more than 5 LCDs with dead pixels working as a network admin over the last 10 years. And thats a lot of LCDs. They are pretty rare, though most LCDs i've seen in my work environment haven't really been in the cheap end of the scale.

willardjuice

04-Oct-2006, 21:51

You sure about that?

Positive. Why else would it only happen in certain modes? Trustedreview used revision A00; to their defense they had no idea about dell's special image processing.

hoom

04-Oct-2006, 22:43

My 2407 has no dead/stuck pixels that I have been able to detect.
Never seen any on the cheap nasty little 15" ones at work.
But I think my friends Dell laptop might have a couple.

BRiT

04-Oct-2006, 23:53

anyone out there have any dead/stuck pixels? how noticeable is it?

For what it's worth...

My Dell 2405 has -0- dead pixels and -0- stuck pixels.
My Planar PL190M has -0- dead pixels and -0- stuck pixels.
Sister's Dell FP 18" has -0- dead pixels and -0- stuck pixels.

The 5 Dell 2001 LCDs I've used at work have -0- dead pixels and -0- stuck pixels.

Pete

05-Oct-2006, 03:28

lol! only one? do most LCDs have at least some?Well, one is enough to disprove that "all" theory, isn't it? :) I've seen a bunch, and haven't noticed a problem pixel yet. I don't even think I've seen problem pixels in the display LCDs in stores like CompUSA and BestBuy, either, but I don't pay that much attention there. I'm comfortable suggesting you don't have to buy an LCD expecting a problem pixel, but consider that even having one or two may not bother you--as much as, say, imperfect geometry, high power draw and heat output, etc. ;) But it won't hurt to buy informed, so read up on the manufacturers' and stores' policies if it's a hang-up (and it's a reasonable one, don't get me wrong).

another question. is it a big operation to get LCD widescreen up and running problem free for most games? will it do both 4:3 and widescreen? like for older games.Dunno, personally. These guys might. (http://www.widescreengamingforum.com)

inefficient

05-Oct-2006, 14:13

Another question. is it a big operation to get LCD widescreen up and running problem free for most games? will it do both 4:3 and widescreen? like for older games.

Yes it does. There are 3 modes for when you are not running at the optimal res of 1920x1200:

1:1 - No pixel doubling
4:3 - Fill but keep aspect ratio
Fill - Fill the whole screen

Cartoon Corpse

05-Oct-2006, 14:46

thanks.

went to that widescreen link. very informative for a noob.

TRIPLE HEAD! what is that? 3 screens joined? (leaving out the border around each in the screenshot)

Malo

05-Oct-2006, 16:46

You can get video cards with 3 outputs (Matrox Parhelia?) to connect to something like this (http://www.digitaltigers.com/displays-trio.shtml).

Cartoon Corpse

05-Oct-2006, 21:30

You can get video cards with 3 outputs (Matrox Parhelia?) to connect to something like this (http://www.digitaltigers.com/displays-trio.shtml).

i would LOVE that without the screen borders. at least on the sides. i think i remember seeing 1 model like that in a magazine a while back.

im looking for a price at that site. price doesn't seem to awful.

what's the drawbacks? no games work at that level?

willardjuice

07-Oct-2006, 18:55

Sigh the BenQ doesn't have 1:1 mapping mode. Great, this monitor was perfect, now it's useless for anything outside its native resoulition (no love for PS3, Xbox360, bluray or hd-dvd players or even ATi users at 4:3/16:9 resolutions).

I guess I'll go back to waiting on the 245T, and maybe it will push the price of the 244T down.

Natoma

07-Oct-2006, 19:32

willardjuice

07-Oct-2006, 20:20

Where'd you find that?

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/benq_fp241w.htm

Lack of 1:1 Pixel Mapping: The absence of this feature from the FP241W is strange, and might well be an issue to potential buyers. Without it, the image is always stretched and scaled to fill the screen rather than offering options to maintain the aspect ratio or map the pixels 1:1 via the hardware itself. It has been confirmed in the FP241W manual that this option is not available, and also by BenQ support. There may still be hope if you need to use such options, as some software (including NVIDIA display drivers) can achieve this instead.

Natoma

07-Oct-2006, 22:52

Ah.. Well, for me it wouldn't be an issue. I'm only looking at LCDs for computer use. I have a 36" WEGA. hehe.

willardjuice

07-Oct-2006, 23:34

Ah.. Well, for me it wouldn't be an issue. I'm only looking at LCDs for computer use. I have a 36" WEGA. hehe.

Well for us ATi users with non widescreen games it is... :mad:

Sinistar

08-Oct-2006, 00:05

I don't have a wide screen monitor, but I am wondering why a 4:3 game would give you a problem. Doesn't using "centered timing" in CCC work?

willardjuice

08-Oct-2006, 00:29

I don't have a wide screen monitor, but I am wondering why a 4:3 game would give you a problem. Doesn't using "centered timing" in CCC work?

It would if the BenQ supported 1:1 pixel mapping; the monitor will just take the standard 4:3 resolution outputted by my X1900XT and then stretch it to a 16:10 ratio (to fill the whole screen). See Nvidia has a special mode that puts a 4:3 (or 16:9) resolution in a 16:10 resolution (it basically adds black bars to the side of a 4:3/16:9 resolution to make it appear to the monitor that it's actually a 16:10 resolution so the monitor won't stretch it). Most new monitors (in fact, until the BenQ I thought all new monitors) supported 1:1 pixel mapping; thus giving ATi little reason to add the special mode that Nvidia has. The biggest problem facing BenQ is the monitor will stretch any 480i/p, 720i/p, 1080i/p material to a 16:10 ratio to fill the screen (it's quite ironic how they been claiming this is the "first" 1080P monitor when it can't even truly display 1080P). Once again the industry takes a step back...

Sinistar

08-Oct-2006, 00:47

Thanks, I really thought that is what centered timing did. I did not realize that the monitor had to support it.

The_Wolf_Who_Cried_Boy

08-Oct-2006, 02:36

DangerIsGo has the BenQ and is posting feedback,including pictures, here (http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1066372&page=13&pp=20)

He's very pleased with it.

willardjuice

08-Oct-2006, 03:46

Yeah it's a good monitor but I just don't have a use for it. :sad:

bloodbob

08-Oct-2006, 04:26

I'd ditch my crt if the new benq's support 1:1 but well looks like I won't

karlotta

22-Oct-2006, 15:06

So who does have 1:1 mapping mode? On a 24 or 23in LCD?

BRiT

22-Oct-2006, 18:13

So who does have 1:1 mapping mode? On a 24 or 23in LCD?

The older Dell 2405s have 1:1 mapping mode, along with Fill and Aspect modes.

karlotta

25-Oct-2006, 05:49

Not the new one? 2407wpf. Or even the samsung 244t?

[maven]

25-Oct-2006, 07:45

Not the new one? 2407wpf.

The 2407 has a 1:1 mode too. But truth be told, I think the prevailing scaler-hate (which was justified for the first few atrocious display scalers) is long past the reality of where scalers are now IMO (for HDTV resolutions — SDTV still needs decent deinterlacing).

sir doris

25-Oct-2006, 13:59

I have an A03 2407 and the 1:1 does not function at 1600x1200, which is the resolution I'd most lile to use it DOH!

karlotta

30-Oct-2006, 15:54

have you played "joe reboot" trying different drivers (ati)?

Muk

05-Dec-2006, 02:46

Does anyone know how to make the screen stretch when using res's lower than 1680x1200? I want to run 1280x800 for Oblivion on my 2407. I can't change image scaling option in CCC because it is disabled. Anyone else have this problem?

trinibwoy

22-Feb-2007, 19:04

Thinking about picking one up. I know ATI doesn't support scaling in their drivers but does the 2407's built in scaler play nice with Radeons? I doubt I'll be able to do much better than 1680x1050 on my XT so it's a pretty important thing for me to have.

Blazkowicz

23-Feb-2007, 17:17

You can get video cards with 3 outputs (Matrox Parhelia?) to connect to something like this (http://www.digitaltigers.com/displays-trio.shtml).

those things look interesting, and less expansive that what I'd thought.
just to say, you can use two vid cards rather than a parhelia.

nutball

24-Feb-2007, 19:04

I've just picked up one of these babies. I'm still getting used to it. My first impression is that it's not quite as sharp as the 2001FP that it's replacing, though that may just be my brain going wrong. Early on I saw a distinct pink cast whenever I scrolled or dragged a window fast, but that seems to have gone away. Maybe these things need burning in after two months in a box. :?

Other than that I think I really like it, it's a good size (I considered the 27" but thought that that would be just a little too big, and at this time it's not particularly good value for money wrt. the 24" and 30"). The one I've got is rev. A04. No bad pixels either.