Vi vs emacs

[Jimmers]

...because no OS forum is complete without one.

And I'm for vi, forever.

[nv_dv]

u right Vi just Great :smile:

[Blazkowicz]

both are user hostile nightmares but if I were to spend weeks to learn one of them, I'd go with vi because of the minimalism and I'd rather type :a2pm! rather than ctrl-x ctrl-y ctrl-ù or whatever. but maybe vi (or both) is unsuitable for non QWERTY layout (french AZERTY here).
and the windows console sucks hard compared to the 50 year old xterm.. so, would be the hassle of learning vi worthwile?
(yes, windoze-only user here, why would I use linux if I had to reboot under windoze to play games)

edit.com would be my vote :), it has the ctrl-ins/shit-ins/shift-del way of copy pasting I can't live without, even has a text GUI and mouse support (though I don't use the mouse), it gets unix formatted text right whereas notepad put everything on the same line (quake 3 config files.. damn). too bad it's not there under unix :)

[BRiT]

Emacs. There's nothing it can not do.

[Chalnoth]

Aye, emacs all the way. The only reason I can think of for people to ever use VI would be just because they learned it first. From what I've been able to tell, emacs offers so much more, and is quite a bit more user-friendly to the beginner. At the very least, the majority of commands are accessible through the menu interface in the X version of emacs, whereas with VI there's no hint at all to the beginner as to how to even begin to edit a file.

[Martin Eddy]

I'm going to sound like a complete noob here but, what the hell are you guys talking about?

What's an emac or vi or nano or pico?

[arjan de lumens]

Emacs, vi, pico and nano are text editors, very commonly available on Unix/Linux systems. They represent some rather different philosophies as to how text editors should work (except that nano is basically a clone of pico), none of which will feel familiar if you haven't actually used these particular editors before.

Personally I prefer nedit.

[Blazkowicz]

yes, nedit is good, like a notepad or edit.com but with line numbers, syntax highlighting and some other stuff. and I can select text with the keyboard like in windoze without learning cryptic commands. best simple editor and better than graphical emacs for simple, normal use .

great one is Jedit, it's slow to launch for an editor as it's relatively big and written in Java, but it served me well for student coding : a lot of features while remaining simple to use, looks the same whatever the OS (the installer is the very same one!) and looks quite good, customisable interface (you dock things were you want), integrated file browser with favorites, and with plugins you get tabs, ftp support, integrated console (good for compiling and checking errors), and when you launch it again you find all your open files, back to work like nothing has moved.
It was the same experience whether I'd work at uni on the old X terminals, or at home under windows on the same remote files (with my stupids little programs running under putty instead of xterm), I recommend it much!

http://www.jedit.org/

[Ragemare]

Tbh I use nano more than any of those because I'm lazy and it's simple, but I voted Emacs because it does a lot more. I'd rather use an editor like Kate or Scite though.

Never used Vim, I'll give it a look though.

[Tim Murray]

emacs. I can't imagine using vi.

[3dcgi]

Personally I prefer nedit.
Seconded. Although I like UltraEdit on Windows the best. Someday they will make a Linux version.

[Xenus]

gah emacs is annoying and slow. I prefer pico.

[Chalnoth]

gah emacs is annoying and slow. I prefer pico.
Slow? How?

[Xenus]

It may just be the way the college computers are set up but it takes forever to initalize and is sometimes hangs when your trying to do some editing.

[Chalnoth]

It may just be the way the college computers are set up but it takes forever to initalize and is sometimes hangs when your trying to do some editing.
That doesn't sound right at all. On my computer, Emacs loads in about 1-2 seconds from within Cygwin (a Linux emulator for Windows), so loading shouldn't be an issue.

It really sounds to me like you're loading emacs up remotely on those computers. That's the only thing that should ever cause it to hang. In which case, you should blame how the college computers are set up, not emacs. Though for remote editing, I typically load emacs in a terminal window for performance reasons (If X is running, you can run emacs in a terminal window with the -nw command line switch).

[Xenus]

Yeah there slow so the only time I use them is when I need help with coding otherwords I just ssh in and do it that way as it almost seems to load faster and I don't have to leave the dorm room.

[Chalnoth]

Yeah there slow so the only time I use them is when I need help with coding otherwords I just ssh in and do it that way as it almost seems to load faster and I don't have to leave the dorm room.
Yeah, if it almost seems to load faster to SSH in, then the campus computers must just be remote terminals.

If the responsiveness bothers you, you could always download Cygwin to get basic Linux functionality in Windows, then use rsync to keep the files on your home PC and at school identical (rsync only copies files which have changed, which improves the speed of uploads/downloads, obviously...but you should tell it to use SSH for security reasons...it's a command line option which I don't recall offhand, check the man page).

[Xenus]

I just use x-win32 as the unversity gives it to us for free and ssh in like that nice and simple. I only lose the gui but that isn't a problem as command line for emacs is emacs.

[Blazkowicz]

my unix session at uni was accessible by ftp from anywhere.
in that case, best way to remotely edit files is to use an editor on the local machine that supports remote files.

[Chalnoth]

Yeah, that's a good way to do it. The only thing you want to be careful about when doing that is to use secure FTP (ex. FTP through SSH), as normal FTP does not encrypt the password during transmission, and if you protect any other data with the same username/password, well, that could be a bad thing.

[darkblu]

v. i.

as for the rest of you, darn infidels, repent while you still can.

[Graham]

Personally I prefer nedit.

Yes.

Can't say I use linux that often (especially now I'm out of university) but I could never get to feel comfortable in xemacs (the editor the uni insisted everyone use). Not sure how it compares to normal emacs, but I found it a horrendous program to use. Had it crash 3 different ways the first time I sat down with it. Drove the lab supervisors utterly bonkers. The default configuration was to have the print button right next to the save button; Of course, this is linux, so click print and it appears nothing has happened.... Not to mention the menus (http://list-archive.xemacs.org/xemacs-nt/200107/jpg00000.jpg).. Things like that.

I'm sure it's a fantastic program, it just wasn't for me. I guess I felt unproductive when using it.

Then I discovered nedit. The ability to run shell commands using the number pad enter key, combined with the very simple interface and excellent syntax highlighting was all I needed in one small window. Very useful little tool.

[fearsomepirate]

Just as a text editor, VI kicks a world of ass. I love never having to take my fingers off the home row. But if we're allowing the GUI of Xemacs to be considered, well, VI doesn't have any native macros (that I'm aware of) for generating bibtex files.

[Phil]

It's VI for me as well. Any day of the week. :wink:

[Florin]

ed (http://www.gnu.org/fun/jokes/ed.msg.html) of course. Duh.

[Frank]

The first thing I always install on any Linux machine is jed.

[DemoCoder]

Emacs, but only for non-Java code. Intellij IDEA for java code.

If I want to use non-interactive editing, I'd just use SED/ED, not VI. :)

[Hector]

gedit :P Vi it's a nightmare, and emacs is bloated.

[nutball]

emacs. emacs isn't an editor, it's a way of life.

[ShootMyMonkey]

emacs... vi isn't a tool, it's just a blank screen, with deliberately non-intuitive keyboard control schemes. emacs, at least, is an editor that serves its function as an editor. So what if it's also a lisp interpreter, web browser, and operating system?

[NavNucST3]

emacs...hmm, looks like I pushed it into a tie with the godforsaken vi.
vi is the hellspawned child of Damian from The Omen and The Exorcist!

[trinibwoy]

vi because it's all I know :smile:

[darkblu]

emacs...hmm, looks like I pushed it into a tie with the godforsaken vi.
vi is the hellspawned child of Damian from The Omen and The Exorcist!

NucNav, it's not 'vi vi vi', it's just vi.

oh, and btw, you'll burn in hell for your blasphemy.

[NavNucST3]

NucNav, it's not 'vi vi vi', it's just vi.

oh, and btw, you'll burn in hell for your blasphemy.
You will be happy to know that in my new job today, I learned that we get to use said hellspawn exclusively....y..a..y. As soon as I saw vi (what little there is to see from the hellspawned child) I almost fainted, :lol:.

Ah well, whatever doesn't kill you, blah, blah, blah

EDIT: On the plus side, I'm back home in Chicago, instead of the land that time forgot called, Denver. So that makes the vi pain a little easier.

[Unknown Soldier]

I myself, enjoy pico more. It's got a similar interface to Pine and it's just much easier to use than vi.

Haven't tried emacs.

US

[Jimmers]

::lawlz:: (http://i.somethingawful.com/inserts/articlepics/photoshop/06-30-06-movies/cuntfish_01.jpg)

[Chalnoth]

Simply awesome :)

[the maddman]

vim all the way for quick edits. Even works using SSH on my Blackberry.

[Bobbler]

vi because it's all I know :smile:

Same here

[Simon F]

xemacs.**

I now only use vi out of desperation. I couldn't begin to estimate the number of times I've had to hit <esc>q! because something bizarre has happened.


**Mind you, my xemacs setup is emulating brief.

[Gubbi]

Emacs

Because when I tended university emacs was *the* user interface (VT100 and similar terminals)

The first thing you did after logging in was fire up emacs, everything was run from there, cc, debugging ... everything.

Cheers

[Simon F]

The first thing you did after logging in was fire up emacs, everything was run from there, cc, debugging ... everything.
Cheers
I must admit I use the "compile/make" facility but have never tried debugging from within emacs. I tend to use DDD for all my (unix) debugging.

[zsouthboy]

Vi vs emacs

LOLLERCOASTER!!11


I use notepad.

[Cartoon Corpse]

im all about vi, heard about emacs, but im happy with vi as my clear choice.

[Frank]

And nobody tried jed???

It's very convenient, and *MUCH* better than vi, ex, emacs, sed, pico, nano, or all the others. IMHO, of course. Just do apt-get install jed.

[nutball]

Yes I've used jed. Though when I used it it was a throwback to VMS TPU/EDT (or rather that was the environment it was deployed in; maybe not it's fault instrinsically, but it coloured my impressions).


Anyway I think there are jed plug-ins for emacs, so still no excuse not to use emacs ;)

[Davros]

i hated vi with a passion it had 2 modes iirc edit mode and insert mode and would switch modes for no reason at all
eg: if i typed the word "if" it would assume the letter I was a command to switch to insert mode drove me nutz...
ended up doing all my programming in wordstar...

[GregLee]

vi. I don't like having to remember things, and I seldom need more than 5 vi commands. Emacs is huge, heavy, oppressive, and domineering. When I discovered that my backspace key gave help instead of backspacing, I actually got angry.

Greg

[Chalnoth]

vi. I don't like having to remember things, and I seldom need more than 5 vi commands. Emacs is huge, heavy, oppressive, and domineering. When I discovered that my backspace key gave help instead of backspacing, I actually got angry.
Huh, well, I've never seen the backspace key give help in Emacs. I've only ever see it backspace.

In my opinion, Emacs is vastly easier to get into than vi, particularly the X windows version. You don't actually have to remember any commands, as all of the basic functionality is right there in the GUI. Over time I've slowly learned the shortcut keys, and it has greatly sped up my work, but I've never gotten into vi just due to the fact that there is no possible way to just pick it up and start using it.

[Xmas]

I use vi if it's the only thing that's available, but I only know about four commands and strange things happen all the time, so for anything beyond a very minor edit I use a GUI editor.

[Rolf N]

Rise, rise from thy grave, thread!

I've voted for nano a good while ago, and I still use that for fixing terminal booting illness and quick hacking but I must say I have grown ever more fond of Bluefish (http://bluefish.openoffice.nl/screenshots.html) lately. It can do everything. It has the "project" concept, optional of course, it has extensible syntax highlighting, code completion, auto-generation, reformatting for lots of different programming and description languages etc etc. It surpasses most OSS or otherwise freeware IDEs, it definitely surpasses Visual Studio 6 (as an editor/organizer, not as a compiler/debugger) and it starts in two seconds (mouse click to typing).

It's good enough. I like it.

[archie4oz]

I'm not seriously in one camp or the other. Since I mainly use OS X, I generally use TextMate. Between vi (or more realistically vim since most systems have vim these days (yes there is a difference!)), and emacs, it depends on what I'm doing and what I may programming it.

For the most part I prefer vim since you're almost always guaranteed to have it on a system (thus it's good to be comfortable in) and it's generally far lighter (particularly when you're remoted into embedded systems). Plus with vim as your default cmd_line EDITOR, it's workflow in general is more seamless with most 'nix's PAGER apps. There's also some really nice plugins for it as well.

However when I've been working on Lisp, there's no substitute for emacs+slime, period. I've also found emacs generally preferable when I've been doing stuff in erlang and haskell as well. Plus emacs is sooooooo much more customizable (and easier to customize that vim).

[K.I.L.E.R]

I'm a newbie and I've picked up EMACS and I'm finding it to be *very* powerful.
I haven't used VI because Linux Torvalds doesn't use it.

[Npl]

Pfff, have no clue how you could pick any of those. even notepad is better than that and I would never use it for big work.

If it has to be a "classic" editor I`d go for GoldEd any time, other than that there are typically tools for specific tasks (IDEs) that help you out way better than generic editors could.

[Chalnoth]

Pfff, have no clue how you could pick any of those. even notepad is better than that and I would never use it for big work.
Notepad is a pretty much featureless text editor. Both VI and Emacs are very powerful once you get to know them.

[Npl]

Notepad is a pretty much featureless text editor. Both VI and Emacs are very powerful once you get to know them.Its featureless, but atleast not ackward to use. theres nothing intuitive of pressing combinations for simple things like deleting lines either - AFAIR backspace wont do it.
At the time of Text-mode OSes they mightve been a logical choice, but now I can only explain its popularity with "old habits".

My 2 cents.

[Chalnoth]

Backspace does just fine. Yes, the shortcut keys are counterintuitive. But, once you get used to them, emacs, at least, is vastly more powerful than any other text editor I have used. The learning curve may be steep, but the reward in productivity once you've passed that curve can be quite substantial.

[Blazkowicz]

I've just did that! :lol:, the thing was just not being cooperative!



$user@host:~/dev$ vi demineur.c

[2]+ Stopped vi demineur.c
$user@host:~/dev$ ps
PID TTY TIME CMD
5898 pts/0 00:00:00 bash
26227 pts/0 00:00:08 gedit
31527 pts/0 00:00:00 vi
31575 pts/0 00:00:00 ps
$user@host:~/dev$ kill -9 31527
$user@host:~/dev$

[Tim Murray]

bumpin this cause I'm still an emacs fanboy.

[Freak'n Big Panda]

hm I've only used pico... I'll have to give emacs or vi a try

[Chalnoth]

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/real_programmers.png (http://xkcd.com/378/)

[ShootMyMonkey]

Backspace does just fine. Yes, the shortcut keys are counterintuitive. But, once you get used to them, emacs, at least, is vastly more powerful than any other text editor I have used. The learning curve may be steep, but the reward in productivity once you've passed that curve can be quite substantial.
Precisely. And unlike vi, you don't necessarily need to have the shortcuts to do any single operation. You can still warm up to emacs like it was a normal featureless editor as well with a few unusual keyboard-driven submenus that you might have to use in order to do standard operations like saving. But when you look at the shortcuts and get used to them, you just open up a whole other world.

Strangely enough, as much as I like emacs/Xemacs, my mother is crazy for vi just the same. She still has to be reminded when opening Notepad that it's not vi. Now there's a t-shirt waiting to happen.

I know some people who are still deeply enamored of DOS edit and prefer to use something like BRIEF or CRiSP to do any text editing.

[Chalnoth]

These days I've actually switched over to kdevelop for most of my programming. I like the indentation settings a little bit better than the default for Emacs (and I never figured out how to edit the setting that annoyed me in Emacs...), and you can compile/debug from within the program. Plus it's got a compiler that runs while you're editing, so you can catch a number of compile errors while editing. And it checks your project files for any functions, so that it lists the arguments of functions you type in.

[rpg.314]

tried emacs, loved it, never bothered for other editors.

[Simon F]

I'm a newbie and I've picked up EMACS and I'm finding it to be *very* powerful.
I haven't used VI because Linux Torvalds doesn't use it.
Sometimes, unfortunately, you have to use vi (like when you mess up your shell initialisation script :( )

[Crazyace]

I used to love brief - the split windows were great. Then I switched to Crisp ( nice Brief mode ) - but it was ip locked under linux, so didn't survive the PC component churn.
Vim ruled as it had vertical splits :) , and it works on anything... I tend to use gvim for most windows editiing - except when I'm forced to use visual studio, ( no vertical split on the same file! )
Nothing wrong with emacs though!