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View Full Version : PS2 and fur shading -56k beware-

29-Dec-2002, 14:54
http://starocean.net/wp1225/wp_fate_l.jpg

Crap? :oops:
29-Dec-2002, 15:02
http://xboxmedia.ign.com/xbox/image/nezmixo4.jpg

Power of the Xbox? :oops:
29-Dec-2002, 15:05
http://www.planetgamecube.com/media/017708309.jpg

Cube too? :oops:
29-Dec-2002, 15:05
Interestingly, all three game titles start with the letter S. :o :oops:
Ozymandis
29-Dec-2002, 15:36
To me, Sneaker's implementation looks a little better.
Blade
29-Dec-2002, 15:39
I'd say that it's Sneakers, SFA, then Star Ocean 3.

Sneakers' looks rather smooth, SFA's looks good/great 90% of the time.. and SO3's isn't bad.. but not up to par with the others.
Ozymandis
29-Dec-2002, 16:38
SFA looks good close up, but as you zoom out, it looks like Fox is surrounded by bees :lol:
clem64
29-Dec-2002, 16:48
I agree with Chap

:oops:
Teasy
29-Dec-2002, 16:54
Sneakers fur looks good but too blurry and SFA fur looks good (much more deffined, less blurry) but suffers from some aliasing problems. All round both SFA and Sneakers implimentations look good, and SO3's implimentation just looks poor.
Kolgar
29-Dec-2002, 17:27
I think it's worth noting that in Sneakers and Star Fox, the fur appears on characters central to the game. Hence, it was worth the developers' time to make it look as good as possible.

So I wouldn't read too much into the shoddy look of the fur in that PS2 game.

Kolgar
CaptainHowdy
29-Dec-2002, 17:27
Sneakers fur looks good but too blurry and SFA fur looks good (much more deffined, less blurry) but suffers from aliasing problem. All round both SFA and Sneakers implimentations look good, and SO2's implimentation just looks poor.


I agree, its more like Blur Shading.
PC-Engine
29-Dec-2002, 17:35
I agree, its more like Blur Shading.

:lol:
Ozymandis
29-Dec-2002, 17:51
OT, but any way someone could link me to more of those SO3 wallpapers? That's pretty sweet... but I can't find more than one on their site :(
marconelly!
29-Dec-2002, 20:17
I'm actually surprised they did fur shading on PS2. I wasn't sure if it can be done at all. If you don't look at it from really close it does look like a very fine fur. I think fur in SF is the best - it's a bit coarse just like real fox's fur should be, and it has nice looking flow. Fur on that mouse, while technically good, doesn't look much like real mice fur. It looks as if all the stubs are just vertical to the skin.
cybamerc
29-Dec-2002, 22:41
marconelly!:

> I'm actually surprised they did fur shading on PS2. I wasn't sure if it
> can be done at all.

It's just polys and textures. Technically it's not even a shader but it sounds more impressive that way.
CaptainHowdy
29-Dec-2002, 23:04
I'm actually surprised they did fur shading on PS2. I wasn't sure if it can be done at all. If you don't look at it from really close it does look like a very fine fur. I think fur in SF is the best - it's a bit coarse just like real fox's fur should be, and it has nice looking flow. Fur on that mouse, while technically good, doesn't look much like real mice fur. It looks as if all the stubs are just vertical to the skin.

Fur really isnt all that major, its basically just laying a flat plane and putting a texture with transparancy between drawn hairs, I am not positive, but I believe the XBox is the only one that uses a different(better)technique? but an Xbox dev would have to back that up, I could be wrong.
marconelly!
29-Dec-2002, 23:43
Yeah, I was reading how it works - laying planes over and over each other each textured with a texture that is a 'slice' of fur, grass, etc. that you want to present. Still, I was under impression that it for some reason still requires an advanced texture combiner, or at least a massive amount of polygon layers.
DeathKnight
30-Dec-2002, 00:42
http://www.meekandfrail.com/crash1.jpg

:lol:

Here's a better Sneakers pic too:

http://www.meekandfrail.com/sneakers1.jpg
30-Dec-2002, 03:24
Polygons and textures, but the PS2 implementation is ugly. :arrow:
Did PS2 Crash have fur shading?
DeathKnight
30-Dec-2002, 03:32
I believe the Xbox version of Crash was the only one that had the fur.
Legion
30-Dec-2002, 13:31
I believe the Xbox version of Crash was the only one that had the fur.

thats what i heard. i believe the devs said something about.
Tagrineth
31-Dec-2002, 00:09
Well! SO3's fur looks really, really bad with some horrid artefacts all over it.

I'd say the description of 'blur shading' fits it best...
Berserk
01-Jan-2003, 01:26
What do you guys think about this?

http://www.gamesdomain.com/articles/fat6.jpg

From Fat and Slim from Attention To Detail

Here is the full story:

http://www.gamesdomain.com/articles/1343.html

"Fatman & Slim is a unique and challenging character based game. Players take on the role of Fat Man with an aim to save his chic chick girlfriend Slim. Encountering many puzzles and worlds along the way, Fat Man with his number of changeable states can roll, bounce, float and even crush objects to aid himself in his quest. All of which makes Fat Man & Slim a fun, tense and testing gameplay experience. "

Some scans:

http://www.atd.co.uk/images/gamesdev/fatman/psi2_scan1.gif
http://www.atd.co.uk/images/gamesdev/fatman/psi2_scan2_page1.gif
http://www.atd.co.uk/images/gamesdev/fatman/psi2_scan2_page2.gif
http://www.atd.co.uk/images/gamesdev/fatman/edge_scan1.gif
archie4oz
01-Jan-2003, 05:56
Yeah, I was reading how it works - laying planes over and over each other each textured with a texture that is a 'slice' of fur, grass, etc. that you want to present. Still, I was under impression that it for some reason still requires an advanced texture combiner, or at least a massive amount of polygon layers.

Well that just deals with generating the shells, you have to render another separate texture for the fins as well. Doing all that on the PS2 cake though, the hard part (where fancier combiner hardware comes into play) is with more sophisticated lighting models (anisotropic, BRDFs) to enhance the appearence as well as dealing with shadows...

As far as the quality goes, I have to agree with Kolgar's statement, and go out on a limb as well and point that amongst the 3 titles the scale of Star Ocean 3 rather dwarf's (it's been in development for what seems like ages, and screens for it have been around since last November) the other two titles so I'm willing to overlook what appears to be straying shells (assuming the arm is moving) on a minor creature...

Also aside from what looks like staying shells on the right arm, the SO3 monster looks ok to me. The style of hair/fur of each of the games is quite different (not all fur should look the same anyhow), and the SO3 monster appears to be along the lines of a Wampa Ice creature (like a fluffy shag). I guess one would have to compare it to the artist's concept to see how much deviation there is...
_phil_
03-Jan-2003, 18:20
i got a gdc 2002 paper about 3d textures and dot3 bumpmapping some times ago.In this paper there's also a "how to " for fur rendering from Sony's R& D (16 passes at the time ! :) )

The result sure looks exactly the same than the xbox fur or gamecube fur or PC fur (the first to come),hey , maybe because it's made in allmost the same way ,except for the use of 3d texture (not supported on ps2) !!

it basically takes a 3d noise texture to generate piled offsets and of the same base geometry ,alpha-ed .

Some fins are added then along the edges to complete the perceptual effects.

I don't see any fur shading int Chad's screenshot ,only adjonction of some alpha detail on a standard modeling.