Panzer Dragoon Orta not possible with GC?

[yipchunyu]

We get the JP version in Hong Kong and some xbox fans claims that Panzer Dragoon Orta is not possible on GC.

Personally, I just watched some demo in the retailers and can't make up the conclusion. However, just an impression, it's major achievement (graphically) is make use of lots and lots of polycons but with no specail lighting effects.
I guess RL for GC is still better than this one. Any comment?

Do u think GC can't handle this one?

[CaptainHowdy]

this topic is like gasoline, and it wont be long till someone brings the matches.

[Blade]

There's no way to tell until it gets a full port with every useful hardware feature on GCN put to use.

From what I've seen of it, I'd say that it's possible.. albeit at a 30fps framerate. Smilebit claims that it'll be one of the (if not the) most demanding games on the Xbox hardware.. and Xbox > GCN for the most part in that area.. so..

[Goldni]

I have'nt seen a title on ANY system that could'nt be done on another. IMO Halo could be done on GCN. And Metroid Prime could be done on XB. Panzar looks real nice but I'm just not seeing the big leaps and bounds over anything else. What framerate is is running at on XB? Is it stable? GCN could do it if ported right but it might have a chug here and there. Moreover I still think Rogue Leader would choke the Xbox up a little bit. No particular reason..maybe all of the geometry, bumpmapping and effects mixed with some serious action everywhere. That's just my 2 cents. Me not a dev..just a playa :lol:

[zurich]

After playing the OXM demo, I think it could be done on GC. It was pretty, but certainly didnt floor me.

Perhaps if the levels are uber-long and stream from HD or something it could be a leg up over the GC (and its RAM limitation).

[yipchunyu]

thx for your input :P

yes, i think it's impossible to tell whether it's possible or not to port one game to other system (until the developer really try hard to do so).

But luckily, we know what will be ported to other system.

so, as a Nintendo fans, we not only get an amazing MP, we will also get Splinter Cell soon which XBOX will never get the MP.

[Plasmatics]

Undoubtedly.

There are better looking games on both platforms than PDO. After playing the E3 demo, which garnered unbelievable praise for the graphics, in the form of the OXM demo disc, to say I came away unimpressed would be an understatement.

The animation is nice and the dragons have a nice effect on them, but the textures are blurry and the draw distance is less than amazing. I can only laugh at the people who claimed those AA-ed, 1600x1200 pics were representative of what the game looks like. Hey, it might end up that way. But I've played what everyone else has and its not even close.

Like Metroid Prime I think its a case of art style making people see more than whats there. Of course this is an Xbox-centric tech forum so I'll probably get torn apart now, but I can only base what I say off of what I see.

[Magnum PI]

you did play a demo, not the final version...

anyway who cares what taiwanese xbox fanboys can say ?

topics like 'xxx not possible on xxx ?" are pure waste of time and energy.

[Ozymandis]

Hmmm. Panzer uses the hard drive to stream the levels, so in its current form, I'd doubt it'd be possible on Gamecube.

[Fafalada]

What would be so hard about putting a semi interactive cutscene on GC? :P
*hides*

[Grall]

So what if it uses harddrive to stream levels? You guys think it's impossible to stream things off the GOD while playing a game or sumthin?

What a silly argument.


*G*

[london-boy]

What would be so hard about putting a semi interactive cutscene on GC? :P
*hides*


:lol: :lol: :lol:


now u know whats gonna happen (i'm taking into account everyone understood the *sarcasm*)... (took me a while to figure it out :lol: )

[Blade]

Grall: Apharm's right. The GCN has less RAM than Xbox, and no HDD to stream from.. which might be problematic.

'Course, GCN also seems to load games faster.. and has a lot of memory for streaming from the disc.. so..

We're back to square one. :)

[CaptainHowdy]

Hmmm. Panzer uses the hard drive to stream the levels, so in its current form, I'd doubt it'd be possible on Gamecube.

kind of like Metroid Prime streams them without the harddrive.

[Ozymandis]

kind of like Metroid Prime streams them without the harddrive.

Like Blade says, the Gamecube has less RAM and that combined with no hard drive seems to be to be a liability when running a game designed from the ground up for Xbox.

I also would be suprised to see the Gamecube run the game at the smooth 60fps that I saw from the demo.

[Blade]

Mmhmm. The Xbox has proven to be faster than the GCN.. and if this game is putting the Xbox hardware to the test like Smilebit says.. you can bet that you won't see identical performance even if the GCN can match up graphically.

[BoddoZerg]

Anything that can be put on Xbox can be put on GCN... they just might have to reduce the detail a little...

[london-boy]

Anything that can be put on Xbox can be put on GCN... they just might have to reduce the detail a little...


then it wouldn't be *anything u put on the XBOX* now would it if u have to lower the detail....... :roll:

it's like saying:

*anything that can be put on a GeforceFX can be put on the PS2 as long as u cut down on the shaders*.............

it's just stupid............. :lol:

[CaptainHowdy]

kind of like Metroid Prime streams them without the harddrive.

Like Blade says, the Gamecube has less RAM and that combined with no hard drive seems to be to be a liability when running a game designed from the ground up for Xbox.

I also would be suprised to see the Gamecube run the game at the smooth 60fps that I saw from the demo.

I think they are talking about if the game was designed for GC though..not simply porting it over.

[Ozymandis]

I think they are talking about if the game was designed for GC though..not simply porting it over.

Ah. Well I'm sure that if the game was designed for Gamecube, the textures were scaled back, the poly counts lowered or framerate halved, the Dolby Digital removed, that it'd run beautifully 8)

[Blade]

Ozy: I dunno.. I wouldn't be so sure anymore. I would normally agree that they'd have to make sacrifices.. but..

Well, GCN has surprised me. Like the PS2, you can do a lot with the GCN if you code specifically for it. ;)

[yipchunyu]

I think they are talking about if the game was designed for GC though..not simply porting it over.

Ah. Well I'm sure that if the game was designed for Gamecube, the textures were scaled back, the poly counts lowered or framerate halved, the Dolby Digital removed, that it'd run beautifully 8)

i agreed that XBOX is a little bit superior than GC. However, the game already show the gap? In other words, u think that GC (even utilize its hardware power) will never produce games with higher quality? PDO is the top celling for GC? :cry:

[Ozymandis]

i agreed that XBOX is a little bit superior than GC. However, the game already show the gap? In other words, u think that GC (even utilize its hardware power) will never produce games with higher quality? PDO is the top celling for GC? :cry:

I don't know. Of course I'm not a developer or anything. But from what I've seen, the most-impressive Gamecube game graphics-wise was a launch title (Rogue Leader). None of the Cube's games since then have been really anything special graphically (RE series perhaps).

I think it's a given that Xbox is capable of a bit more than Gamecube as far as graphics.

[Kolgar]

Once again, I agree completely, Ozy. :P

Kolgar

[MrSingh]

the final game is much better than the demo.

[Teasy]

Once again people are making the mistake of thinking that any good looking game on XBox uses every ounce of its power. The argument from some people often seems to be:

'This game is on XBox, XBox is a bit more powerful then GameCube, so a GameCube version of this game would have to be scaled down."

Its a majorly flawed argument.

From what I've seen Panzer Dragoon Orta isn't that fantastic looking. Its not a step above something like Rogue Leader, maybe not even as good, (I don't know for sure as I haven't played it yet). So I see no reason why the graphics would need to be scaled down.

I'm quite confident that XBox and GameCube have allot more in there hardware then Orta is doing.

Ozy

You mention that Rogue Leader was a launch game and is still technically the best looking game, not just on GameCube but still one of the best on any system IMO. Well that shows what can be done with the GC hardware when a dev really knows what they're doing like Factor 5. Rogue Leader, put together in 9 months, is right up there with games like Orta, so you really have no reason to believe that anything would have to be scaled back for Orta.

The only way I can see what you mentioned happening, dropping texture detail/polycounts, is if the game was just a direct port from XBox to GameCube. But then I can also see Rogue Leader being worse on XBox then it is on GameCube with a simple direct port.

[CaptainHowdy]

I think they are talking about if the game was designed for GC though..not simply porting it over.

Ah. Well I'm sure that if the game was designed for Gamecube, the textures were scaled back, the poly counts lowered or framerate halved, the Dolby Digital removed, that it'd run beautifully 8)

Poly Counts I can see, but Textures? uhm, GC can do more textures per pass than either of the other systems..

[DeathKnight]

Poly Counts I can see, but Textures? uhm, GC can do more textures per pass than either of the other systems..
In theory. Realworld use of over 4 textures layers at a time on the Cube will more than likely prove extremely difficult because you sacrifice many things.

And it isn't all about how many textures can be applied in a single pass. There's also the amount of textures that can be applied in the least amount of clock cycles, multitexture fillrate speeds, memory bandwidth, memory size, etc.

[Teasy]

Realworld use of over 4 textures layers at a time on the Cube will more than likely prove extremely difficult because you sacrifice many things.

All that is sacrificed for GameCube is pixel fillrate though.

With 5 layers you have 129mpixels/s (down from 162mpixels/s with 4 layers). So the difference, for GameCube, of going from 4 layers to 5 layers is very small, much smaller then other consoles doing the same.

The difference is even smaller once you remember that at 640x480 you don't need much pixel fillrate. Even with 8 texture layers you still have 81mpixels/s, which is fine for 640x480.

But obviously your right that texture layers isn't everything. But it is an area where GameCube shines

[DeathKnight]

Check out some highres gameplay vids:

58MB (http://211.216.52.167:8080/pdo/pdo01.mpg)
185MB (http://211.216.52.167:8080/pdo/pdo02.mpg)
105MB (http://211.216.52.167:8080/pdo/pdo03.mpg)
17MB (http://211.216.52.167:8080/pdo/pdo04.mpg)

[PiNkY]

Hmmm, while Rogue Leader is definitly one of the best looking games, one has to consider that on its (arguably) best looking level, (2nd part of raid on bespin, imo) framerate somewhat crawls (sometimes definitly <20fps). Overall from all my games (on all my consoles) best looking would go to xbox from a technical point of view (esp. Mech Assault, though Zelda WW definitly looks to be a contender should it ever get released here) and to ps2 from an artistic POV (lots of good stuff here, GT3, FFX,...).

[PiNkY]

But GC and XBOX are quite close in what can be archieved, so i think just about every game that can be done on one console should be doable on the other (plus/minus some minor eyecandy), and PS2 also is not "leaps" behind both others.

[Magnum PI]

i think the thing that the gamecube miss the most is the RAM.
the xbox has much more ram.

with more ram you can have better textures, more geometry data etc..

[sergio_r]

Check out some highres gameplay vids:

58MB (http://211.216.52.167:8080/pdo/pdo01.mpg)
185MB (http://211.216.52.167:8080/pdo/pdo02.mpg)
105MB (http://211.216.52.167:8080/pdo/pdo03.mpg)
17MB (http://211.216.52.167:8080/pdo/pdo04.mpg)

I can never download from ruliweb, ever.

[zurich]

Really? I zip along at 150k :D

Very pretty movies, much much better than the OXM demo.

Still, looks much more like a 'must rent' than a 'must own', if only because of the nature of the game.

(heres hoping Smilebit atleast keeps an option for Jap voice tracks in the final release!)

[Lazy8s]

Teasy:
'This game is on XBox, XBox is a bit more powerful then GameCube, so a GameCube version of this game would have to be scaled down."

Its a majorly flawed argument.
It's not flawed if they're making an equal comparison. They're probably assuming that both the GameCube developer and the Xbox developer are achieving a proportionally similar level of performance from their respective host platform. That's a reasonable assumption since development for both machines is said to be relatively straightforward. Naturally, a developer would give as much of an effort trying to push the Xbox hardware as they would the GameCube hardware.

However, seeing as no game utilizes the full potential of its host system, it's possible that Panzer's performance could be within the range of the GameCube's capabilities.

[CaptainHowdy]

Here (http://gamespot.com/gamespot/features/all/bestof2002/)

they break it down by platform, and the final GOTY
was at the very end.

Game of the Year PC- Warcraft 3
Game of the Year Xbox- Mechassault
Game of the Year PS2- Grand Theft Auto: Vice City
Game of the Year GC- Metroid Prime
Game of the Year GBA- Tactics Ogre- The Knight of Lodis

And the Winner for Game of the Year overall......
Metroid Prime.