View Full Version : Latest UK Console Figures
SEE HERE (http://www.computerandvideogames.com/r/?page=http://www.computerandvideogames.com/news/news_story.php(que)id=84301)
Tremendous for PS2 - 92,440 (almost 100K units in a week!)
Very good for Xbox - 21,318.
Average for GCube - 10,065.
Looks like this christmas is going to be a huge one for console sales.
Johnny Awesome
04-Dec-2002, 19:06
Poor Teasy. :oops:
Geeforcer
04-Dec-2002, 19:12
Someone take that factory away from Sony...
CaptainHowdy
04-Dec-2002, 19:20
Poor Teasy. :oops:
when your throwing money out of the window, giving away everything you have to give away, the numbers become meaningless, sure GC sold have as many, but they did not have to lose millions in order to do it.. the Xbox situation is much like that of the Crackhead that lived uptown from me, he sold me a TV for $35, hell yea I bought it, still with no respect for the owner, but when they are going to give it all away, anyone would be on the take.
PC-Engine
04-Dec-2002, 19:34
Nintendo is actually making a profit from the hardware 8)
M$ is obviously very desparate :P
Johnny Awesome
04-Dec-2002, 19:47
But in the long run it won't matter. :)
CaptainHowdy
04-Dec-2002, 19:52
even while handing them out to the homeless in the soup lines, they are still 2 mill short or GC worldwide, so your right, it wont...
Magnum PI
04-Dec-2002, 20:03
and UK is not europe.
maybe xbox has the lead here, but for the rest of europe ?
unfortunately i only have stats for the UK, like the elspa one...
does anyone have stats for other europeans countries ?
PC-Engine
04-Dec-2002, 20:03
even while handing them out to the homeless in the soup lines, they are still 2 mill short or GC worldwide, so your right, it wont...
Looking at past and current trends, M$ will be paying people to get them off their hands. :lol:
Magnum PI
04-Dec-2002, 20:06
But in the long run it won't matter. :)
it will matter, as someday MS will want to get back all the money they spent on the xbox..
and for now the only thing they succeed at is maximizing their losses.
if the online happens not to be the cash cow MS seems to think it will be, what will become the xbox and its successor ??
PC-Engine
04-Dec-2002, 20:19
WebTV :lol:
No offense to WTV users/owners.
I'm sure you'd like to believe I'm suprised or at all bothered by those numbers john boy :) Sorry but I'm neither, which is why I didn't bother posting in this thread until now.
Actually that's not true, I am suprised, I'm suprised that XBox only sold 20,000 in the week after this new 4 game deal started ;)
When you sell a console at cost in the first place, then give away 4 of your best games for free (and in your strongest European territory by far, the U.K) I'd expect the console to fly off the shelves. I'd expect XBox to even come close to PS2 here, at least for the first weeks of this deal (like GameCube is doing now in Japan with Res Evil 0.. selling 20 times more then XBox BTW). Because the first week/month is where you get the temporary large sales spike from these sort of deals. Make no mistake after the first week or so the sales will drop back down a bit, maybe not back to normal, but allot closer to normal. But for all that XBox isn't doing great at all, sales only increased by 50% when they added Halo and Splinter Cell to the JSRF and Sega GT bundle. I'd expect the initial sales spike from that sort of deal to be more like 300%+ to be any sort of success.
Looking at past and current trends, M$ will be paying people to get them off their hands.
LOL, your not kidding either :)
Look at the trend so far. Xbox is released at £300 with no free games. 2 months later is drops to £199.99. 5 months later is drops to £159.99 with 2 free games (effectively £109). 2 months after that is drops to £199 with 4 free games (two of which are XBox's best selling game by far in Halo and its newest biggest title since Halo in Splinter Cell), which means its effectively £100 or less. So from £300 to £100 in 9 months... that is the most incredible price dropping I have ever seen!
Who wants to take bets that a few months after Christmas XBox will be available for £150 with 4 of its newest games free (effectively £50)?.. I'm serious BTW
I have no idea what they'll be offering bt late 2003.. XBox for £99 with 4 of its newest games? (sell your games and end up actually making money on owning a XBox). Its possible.
CeiserSöze
04-Dec-2002, 20:45
I don't know what to think about this bundle: They loose money on the hardware which they eventually want to make back with software sales. Yet the bundle comes with two free(!) games which almost every XBox would probably buy separately (Halo & Splinter Cell). How are they going to make money on software sales when they're giving away their AAA-titles for free? :-? :-?
I have no idea what they'll be offering late by 2003.. XBox for £99 with 4 of its newest games? (sell your games and end up actually making money on owning a XBox). Its possible.
If this happens at christmas 2003, and the games start to appeal to me (which is not the case as for now, I'm not into SWAT/guns games and racing games only interest me with the FF racing wheel on the ps2), I may be tempted. It is very hard not to buy a console when it costs almost nothing.
wazoo
Same here. Recently I was extremely tempted to buy a PS2 if I could find one for £100 second hand, until I found out that the Winning Eleven/Pro Evolution Soccer series is no longer going to be exclusive to PS2 (its out for GC the second month of next year). So I'll also be tempted at a £100 XBox if it gets some games I really want, especially if it has 4 free games with it :)
Magnum PI
04-Dec-2002, 21:08
this "give'em all" attitude isn't only a microsoft problem.
i guess the xbox publishers who are not part of these deals must be very happy with MS flooding the market with free AAA titles... :roll:
zidane1strife
04-Dec-2002, 21:11
WOW!!! 4free games!!!! software sales are gonna go down!!!! 3rd parties won't like this... So this is how it's gonna be in the US in about a year and a few months :lol: :lol: :lol:.... When sales begin to go down Ms will bundle 4games and sell for sub-100$... dev.s will get bad sales and jump shift.... It will all end with a BANG!!! ... and when the ruckus over.... what will be of xbox 2????
wazoo
Same here. Recently I was extremely tempted to buy a PS2 if I could find one for £100 second hand, until I found out that the Winning Eleven/Pro Evolution Soccer series is no longer going to be exclusive to PS2 (its out for GC the second month of next year). So I'll also be tempted at a £100 XBox if it gets some games I really want, especially if it has 4 free games with it :)
The ps2 worth it for ICO alone. The FF wheel, which can be found at very cheap prices, is awesome for racing games. Depend on your tastes.
I'll buy RC this week. reminds me a lot of JFG.
The ps2 worth it for ICO alone.
Yeah probably, if that sort of game is a must have for you. I've heard allot about ICO, its probably great, but I'm not that interested in it myself, not enough to buy a second console anyway. On the other hand I'm a Football fanatic so if I find a game like PES2 (which is a masterpeice IMO) that's the sort of thing that will make me have to have a console, if it had stayed exclusive I would have bought a PS2, no doubt about it.
Funnilly enough ISS 64 (also a masterpeic of a Football game) was what brought me to Nintendo when it was released on N64. Before that I had only ever owned Sega consoles (Master System, Megadrive, Saturn).
marconelly!
04-Dec-2002, 21:46
The ps2 worth it for ICO alone.
That's exactly the reason I purchased PS2 :) It's such a beautiful game.
The ps2 worth it for ICO alone.
On the other hand I'm a Football fanatic so if I find a game like PES2 (which is a masterpeice IMO) that's the sort of thing that will make me have to have a console, if it had stayed exclusive I would have bought a PS2, no doubt about it.
Some of my friends are football fanatics enough to play real football . Maybe you are not as fanatic as you think so ;)
Some of my friends are football fanatics enough to play real football . Maybe you are not as fanatic as you think so
Why would you assume that I don't actually play real football? I both watch and play real Football. I also kill people for a living, but that doesn't stop me from playing Hitman 2... oops I've said to much!
Seriously who ever said I don't actually play Football? Do you think if someone plays football they then would have no need for a Football game? If so you really don't understand what it is to be a Football fanatic.. I simply can't get enough of Football and if there is a fantastic Football experience to be had, wether its real or simulated I have to have it! ;)
hmm...
Toys R Us bundles in the UK:
PS2: Burnout, Star Wars: Jedi Starfighter, Eternal Ring, Crazy Taxi and Crash Bandicoot: The Wrath of Cortex, DVD-movies Ace Ventura 2 ja A.I. and a V3 FX -rattiohjain. Price 250 pounds = 342 euros
GCN: Luigi's Mansion, Legends of Wrestling, Extreme G3, Crash Bandicoot: Wrath of Cortex, Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 3, Burnout, Star Wars: Rogue Squadron, 18 Wheeler American Pro Trucker, Spider-Man and Zoo Cube for 250 pounds = 342 euros
Xbox: Jett Set Radio Future, Sega GT 2002, Halo, Splinter Cell and Championship Manager for 199 pounds = 272 euros.
So who has mad bundles? source is pelit.fi btw.. Finland's largest gaming magazine's website.. Thou I think those are not manufacturer made bundles but made by TRU, but still, it's insane. And a good deal for the UK consumers :)
Natoi
Taking into account the cost of both systems and the quality/cost of the games included, XBox IMO. I mean its got the best XBox game so far, the second best, two big Sega games and an exclusive Champ Man game (big games everywhere but the U.S) all for free at only £199. You could sell those 5 XBox games for £125 on ebay, leaving the XBox at £75. Those 10 GC games aren't of a high quality, some are decent (one really good) but the rest are average to poor. Youd likely get no more then £130 for all of them when sold singley. Leaving GC at £120.. which is around the price of a single GC anyway. To be honest I think there are better GC deals then that 10 game bundle.
Don't get me wrong, there all great deals for what they're for (the GC deal is great for kids and it does come from TRU) but overall the craziest looks like XBox's.. its absolutely insane! I mean anyone buying that isn't going to need to buy an XBox game for a long time, and game sales is where MS may start to make back some of those huge losses. Of course from MS's point of view its not crazy if it sky rockets XBox's U.K sales, although apparently its not doing that so...
for about £150 you get a moderately powerful PC which with a mod chip can be used as a media center, or a linux box, or anything else you want! If you can get an external USB tv tuner, you might even be able to use it as a DVR.
www.planetxbox.com
Catching Up In Australia
Tuesday, December 3, 06:05 | Talon |
Next to North America, it seems like the main area for Xbox has been Australia so far. Today, in an announcement made by Microsoft, it seems that Xbox has a commanding 46 percent of the market share in the country. Achieved largely over the last few weeks, data from Inform shows that the system’s pushed 23,069 units in the last two weeks alone, putting Xbox only 4 percent behind the leading system, PlayStation 2.
Although Oz isn't really a big market, its still very surprising. MS seemed to have done their homework there, with the Rallisport bundles and such appealing to the down-under-types :P
Also, I think MS is realizing that Europe is a more important market for Xbox than Japan, hence the "give away" deals. Its about time too :-?
According to a few people I've spoken too XBox is deffinately doing well in Australia, always has been apparently. But then we never see actualy sales from there included in sales for consoles as we only ever see U.S, Japan and European sales.. so we'll never truely know exactly what's going on there.
BTW that title from PlanetXBox is quite funny. XBox's sales very recently are 4% behind PS2's and XBox is catching up to PS2? :) That's like claiming that GameCube is catching PS2 in Japan because its about 3% behind it in the latest weekly sales. Ok I suppose technically you could say its catching up to its weekly sales, still a funny title :)
BTW, anyone know if MS released there 4 game bundle in Oz at the same time as the U.K? Come to think about it is that 4 game bundle even out in the rest of Europe?
Seriously who ever said I don't actually play Football? Do you think if someone plays football they then would have no need for a Football game? If so you really don't understand what it is to be a Football fanatic.. I simply can't get enough of Football and if there is a fantastic Football experience to be had, wether its real or simulated I have to have it! ;)
cool :)
DVFtaxman
04-Dec-2002, 23:20
........I may be mistaken, but the Xbox 4 game pack didn't get released until the 30th November so I'd say that those sales figures don't even take that into account! Not much to go on, but a lot of retailors appear to be suggesting that the Xbox is now matching the PS2 in sales in the UK :o .....how close that is to the truth is hard to tell, but it would appear obvious that GC is now being left behind in the UK unless Nintendo can do some serious price manipulation soon!
Geeforcer
04-Dec-2002, 23:41
I was thinking about the fascination with sales numbers (I must confess I was somewhat guilty of that as well). I think right now, it’s purely inertia. I mean, early on, everyone was watching sales number religiously: will one of the consoles fail? Which one? Who will come out on top?
At this point, I believe the questions have been already answered. All the consoles are here to stay. PSX2 will dominate while Cube and Box will split the difference. Its no longer Spring for 2002, and the “make-or-break” time for all the consoles has passed. With installment base for both newer consoles (GC/XB) well in the millions, a weekly sales differential of several thousands has lost most of its significance.
Teasy,
I believe the press release meant that total installed base, not weekly sales share.
marconelly!
05-Dec-2002, 01:01
I believe the press release meant that total installed base, not weekly sales share.
That's very unlikely. I've seen the AU console numbers somewhere, and PS2 was way ahead and constantly selling at least somewhat better.
I believe the press release meant that total installed base, not weekly sales share.
That's very unlikely. I've seen the AU console numbers somewhere, and PS2 was way ahead and constantly selling at least somewhat better.
Latest (weekly) sales figures for Australia were 12,681 for Xbox and 3,779 for PS2 :o. That press release certainly implied they were talking total market share even though it seems difficult to believe that two weeks of bumper sales could make that much difference.
How long has the PS2 been on sale in Australia?
Anyway I agree with what Geeforcer said. All three consoles are going to get a large enough market share (exception - Xbox in Japan), but PS2 is probably going to hang on to their big lead.
Thats a good Point Taxman. If the 4 game sale started that late it wouldn't at all be indicative of the sales.
I am still waiting to hear what Howdy and PC Engine have to say about that.
DVFtaxman, I was having a look around the Metro Center last monday and the shops there already had those bundles in, that was the 25th, which was the start of the week ending the 30th (which is what those sales are from). You may be right on the official release/announcement of the 30th.. I'm not sure. But it seems MS wanted to have stores stocked with the bundle before making it official.
teasy i don't think 5 days made up all of those sales. Do you have evidence for this? What were the weeks before it and what are the stores claiming caused the surge in sales without public adverstisement of said bundle?
Legion, it says on the site that reported it that these sales were from the week ending on the 30th, Monday was the 25th, from the 25th to the 30th is 6 days. Although really that week didn't end on the 30th, it ended on the 1st of December, unless they count Sunday as the start of a new week? In which case sales would have been from Sunday the 24th to Saturday the 30th (7 days).
There was news about this bundle quite a while before any ads started, with U.K mags and sites reporting it and it was all over allot of forums. Also AFAIR GAME started advertising this bundle on TV also before the 30th (but not as early as the 25th AFAIR). I'd imagine the rest of the increase in sales comes from word or mouth and simply looking around stores and finding the bundle.
But I suppose this bundle wasn't fully known of by allot of people in the week that site reports on. So maybe that explains why sales didn't spike anywhere near as much as they should have from an offer like that. Perhaps now that advertising has started more people will realise the bundle and the spike will either increase a bit or at least not dwindle so quickly in the coming weeks.
they said that the bundles were the cause of this without advertisement?
they said that the bundles were the cause of this without advertisement?
I don't know what stores think, I only looked around and saw the bundle (I only poped in to play PES2 :)).
But as I said there was awareness of this deal quite a while before the 30th, weeks before. Not wide spread with casual gamers of course, so as I said perhaps sales will increase again now that everyone knows about it. For MS's sake they better increase, because if that offer can't shift more XBox's then I really don't know what they'll have to come up with next.
For MS's sake they better increase, because if that offer can't shift more XBox's then I really don't know what they'll have to come up with next.
The overwhelming evidence is that this bundle is (understandably) leading to very significant increases in sales. I'm surprised that the only response by some people on this forum is to ridicule the bundle somehow for offering too much value-for-money. Microsoft have obviously learnt that console sales are very much linked to how much value the consumer perceives s/he is getting from the purchase. To remain competitive they have to pitch the price pretty much at the same level as the other two consoles. Sure the Xbox is more expensive to produce than either PS2 or Gamecube and Microsoft lose money on each box sold, but I've yet to see a compelling argument yet as to why, as a consumer, I should care about that.
Anyway, ignoring the Xbox sales figures, you could ask yourself how healthy it is for Nintendo to be out-sold 9:1 by the PS2 in the UK? I'm still amazed by the near 100K units the PS2 sold. Compare that to the 66K units sold in Japan, and Japan is meant to be a significantly larger market. Is this just the effect of Christmas?
DVFtaxman
05-Dec-2002, 12:44
The 4 game pack was released officially on the 29th, but was not shipped to stores until the 30th. I found this out by talking to my local Toys R Us manager who just happened to have the M$ sales rep in store with him(checking merchandising apparently). So they were definately not available prior to this......you may have seen the 2 game pack, or possibly a store specific pack, but it was definitely NOT the 4 game pack that is now in retail.
Maybe if you'd like to let us know which store and I can give them a shout to find out how they got them in so early???
BTW, it wasn't even announced until the 25th, although obviously rumour had spread prior to then.
.
.
.....I was actually trying to get some sales figures out of the TrU guy, buy he downright refused to state any. What he did say though, was that they couldn't get the packs in fast enough and now have a huge backlog where they have had to sell packs with games(HALO & SC) missing. He was pretty peeved off as apparently they have to phone everyone to tell them when the games are back in stock so that they can come and collect them.
zidane1strife
05-Dec-2002, 13:14
For MS's sake they better increase, because if that offer can't shift more XBox's then I really don't know what they'll have to come up with next.
MS as always resorting to cheating... nice it's working for them now... but when they start doing this in the rest of europe and the US in a about a yr and a few months... it WONT work, and hopefully their desperate move shall teach publishers of the evil that is MS and they'll abandon them for next gen... at least i'm sure MS won't get much japanese support next time....
People shouldn't resort to low blows like that... let's offer internet explorer for free... let's offer tons of games for free... let's offer our nasty antiAOL project on the next window for free.... let's offer our soul to the devil for free.... let's use our insane profits due to our monopoly to gain access and unfair advantages(insane cash resources) in new industries....
I hate when the bad guys resort to this stuff in movies, tv series, etc... and i don't like it in the real life either...
Hmmm. I think some people (not mentioning any names) need to get out more. :wink:
Anyone know anything about the NINTENDO annoucement that is supposed to make them sell thousands of hundreds GameCube ?
Gerry
I'm certainly not rideculing MS for the bundle. I'm just stating how inredible it is to offer what they are offering. I mean they'e offering XBox + JSFR + Sega GT + Halo + Splinter Cell for the same price as a normal XBox with no games. Its like Nintendo offering a pack of GameCube + Resident Evil 1 + Resident Evil 0 + Eternal Dakness + Metroid Prime for £129.. it does look like desperation to me. Like they're trying despeately to gain gound in any possible territory to make up for the horrible sales in Japan and bad sales in the rest of Europe, so they can try to take over GameCube as numbe 2 worldwide.
BTW nobody has mentioned wether this XBox deal is also in other European countries.. if its not then I'd be interested to know why. Why are MS focusing only on the U.K, a territory where they are already neck and neck with GameCube (unlike the rest of Europe). Maybe because the U.K is the only European territory where this offer would push XBox ahead of GameCube?.. which makes for possitive XBox news on confused websites of "XBox now ahead in Europe", which we saw recently. Just an idea.
DVFtaxman
The store I was in when I saw this pack was Game Store in the Metro Center. I was busy playing PES2 for my usual 2-3 hours :) (the owner lets me play whenever I want) and I noticed the pack. They were deffinately 4 game packs with the game boxes pictured on the XBox box, so it was an official bundle from MS.
Teasy: The ridiculing comment wasn't directed at you, more at some of the more *cough* exciteable people on here. BTW I wouldn't be surprised to see such a Nintendo bundle sometime soon!
I agree it would be interesting to see how the Xbox is doing in the rest of Europe. A complete guess would be that it's doing a lot better than it was a few months ago, but probably not up to the UK sales revival. Maybe there are some German/French posters on here who have a better idea?
Magnum PI
05-Dec-2002, 14:47
toys'r'us deutschland xbox bundles seem interesting
http://www.toysrus.de/multimedia/x_box_start.php3
the gamecube one much less
http://www.toysrus.de/multimedia/gamecube_start.php3
toys'r'us france:
no gamecube
a xbox w/ no game for 249 euros (it's the MSRP price)
i saw here:
http://www.playfrance.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=15089
(french people knowing to share good consumer info go here !)
that virgin sells the xbox + JSRF + sega gt 2002 + amped + doa 3 for 299 euros = four games for 50 euros.
zidane1strife
05-Dec-2002, 14:48
The ridiculing comment wasn't directed at you, more at some of the more *cough* exciteable people on here.
I hope it wasn't directed at me either...
I hope it wasn't directed at me either...
Now whatever would give you that impression?
:P
Magnum PI
05-Dec-2002, 14:54
I hope it wasn't directed at me either...
Now whatever would give you that impression?
:P
perhaps the best is that you tell us who it was directed at...
The 4 game bundle was launched in the UK, Switzerland and Australia only AFAIK. In Germany there still is mainly the 2 game SEGA bundle, plus these apparently also official offers:
Xbox / Sega GT 2002 / JSRF / Splinter Cell = 299 €
Xbox / Sega GT 2002 / JSRF / Spider-Man = 269 €
Xbox / Sega GT 2002 / JSRF / Mat Hoffman's Pro BMX 2 / Kelly Slater's Pro Surfer = 279 €
note that you can get Splinter Cell for like 55,- € on its own (the bundle only saves you 5,- €), so its not really anything like giving Top-Sellers away "free" in the kind of way the 4 game bundle does...
Shortly after the original Sega bundle was launched here, MS managed to double Xbox market share in Germany according to local gembiz media, leaving Nintendo behind by a solid amount in weekly sales since then (in total sales they are still only 3rd though its impossible to get any solid numbers in this country)...
Here is the latest numbers from Japan.
Poor Xbox...
Game Boy Advance: 145,900 (Annual: 2,459,300)
PlayStation 2: 66,300 (Annual: 3,167,900)
GameCube: 35,100 (Annual: 958,500)
Xbox: 3,100 (Annual: 276,786)
PlayStation: 2,100 (Annual: 208,100)
Wonder Swan Crystal: 1,100 (Annual: 103,600)
Game Boy Color: 800 (Annual: 80,400)
Wonder Swan Color: 550 (Annual: 115,500)
Nintendo 64: 54 (Annual: 6,000)
Game Boy: 47 (Annual: 5,100)
Wonder Swan: 43 (Annual: 8,100)
Dreamcast: 38 (Annual: 17,500)
PocketStation: 37 (Annual: 1,300)
DVFtaxman
05-Dec-2002, 16:18
TEASY:-I have a very good friend that is a manager for GAME over in Canterbury so I'll give him a ring and find out whether/how they got them in so early then! However the M$ rep in TrU was adament that it wasn't available prior to 29th.......the next weekly sales figures should make interesting reading and help explain the situation.
btw, I heard that this isn't actually an official M$ bundle(should hav asked whilst I had the chance-DOH!), but has been made up by the distributer.......how true that is I don't know, but it may explain why it isn't europe wide.
OK how did this go from a european sales thread to a ridiculing-the-xbox-for-poor-japanese-sales-because-the-xbox-has-sold-well-in-europe-for-a-week thread Sindre?
Tell you what, i'll email my condolences to all of those who care about japanese sales Sindre. Will that make you feel better?
Off the topic why is it that i feel some many people here bring up the topics of such thread to ridicule systems? Is it just me? This started out sounding good for the xbox. Then out of no where people started saying (and it always seems to be the same crowd of people) that these sales aren't as good as they should be.
Oh, excuse me. I didn't mean it that way. :(
I just found these new numbers and wanted to share them in this forum.
So when I saw the "European-Sales" thread, I thought it would be the most suitable place to put them. I didn't have much time, so I didn't read through the whole thread. I didn't know it evolved from "backing up the Xbox" to "trashing the Xbox".
And about the "poor Xbox", I really feel sorry for MS when you look at how the Xbox is selling in Japan. I can't believe why more Japanese are buying them :o I know the Xbox is doing much better in Europe now and I'm glad to see them catching up. There's nothing better than competition, right? :)
Sorry, I was not trying to trash or bash the Xbox in any way.
perhaps the best is that you tell us who it was directed at...
I have admit it never crossed my mind that people wouldn't realise exactly who I was talking about. However I'll decline your request a) to remain enigmatic and b) in an effort to prevent this thread from becoming a slanging match. I wholeheartedly apologise to anyone who may have thought I was talking about them.
Back on topic.
Thanks for the info Gollum. And thanks too, err, Sindre. I don't think anyone is disputing Xbox has sold poorly in Japan. Personally (and to others this will definately not be the case) Japan is the least important of the big 3 regions - and that is purely a reflection of my gaming tastes. Why Xbox failed in Japan is another discussion entirely.
Looking in a bit more detail at those Australian sales, I'm sure PS2 still has a large lead in installed userbase. I think the press report, or at least the reporting of the report, is just plain confusing.
Sorry, I was not trying to trash or bash the Xbox in any way.
Fair enough!
Japanese sales of Xbox have been pretty much the same month after month after month. I think it's fair to say that it isn't going to improve much any time soon. The real story on the Japanese sales figures is whether the Gamecube can overtake PS2 during the next year or so. Maybe Zelda will have a big effect.
Dunno what people expected when Xbox launched, I personally feel it didn't do bad. It could have done a lot better, but competition was tough and the hype surrounding PS2 was almost mind-boggling. Sure, console freaks in general knew about Xbox and some expected a lot (while many others hated it because of MS), but the general public was mostly unaware of it and Xbox lacked any kind of brand recognition to build upon, whereas Nintendo has been synonymous with quality video-gaming for decades (at least until Playstation came along). Playstation also came almost out of nowhere, but IIRC PS didn't start dominating the sales charts until into its second year either and Sony picked the ideal time to come to market in comparison, with Nintendo still not ready (plus an arguably bad choice of not using CD media) and Sega performing horribly with its Saturn. MS on the other hand came to market at the same time as the veteran Nintendo, as if that wasn't enough there was an already strong ruling champion known as PS2, much different and tougher situation.
Considering this I think Xbox did reasonably well in the western markets, coming out of nowhere and basically performing on par with Nintendo on a western scale right away is an accomplishment IMHO. It'll be most interesting to follow this through and see how year two will go for MS and Nintendo. Right now Xbox certainly seems to catch on a bit, more people now know that the name has something to do with video-gaming, rumors about its supposedly better visuals are also heard outside of hardcore gamer circles, while sales this holiday season seem to be picking up even stronger than those of GC for most western territories (yeah I know, MS is "cheating" and "giving it away for free" blahblah, grow up). Not that I expect the Xbox to ever dominate sales charts, Playstation is a too strong brand and has too many top titles exclusively, but I definitely see room for growth in market share considering current events and the H1 03 games lineup (same goes for GC, I expect both to get closer to PS2 with time). IMHO although market share overall will probably change in some unpredictable ways, all 3 consoles are here to stay and that's a good thing! :)
As for Xbox in Japan, ahaem ... *cough* ... well they'll need a miracle (the kind of DQ, FF or Biohazard exclusive miracle, you know the kind that never happens), their current market share in the land of the rising sun is truly sobering (like below 2% for a while now in weekly sales, it'd be a bit higher if you exclude the handhelds and other consoles but its still extremely low)... :o
Those Japanese GC numbers are excellent! I thought when I saw that 37,400 number for GC last week in Japan (only 1,000 behind PS2) I thought it was just a one week spike because of Resident Evil 0. But it seems GC is staying firm at around 35,000!
DVFtaxman
I didn't mean GAME, I said Game Store, its a different shop.
CaptainHowdy
05-Dec-2002, 19:22
I think the ole sales arguments though really have no merit anymore..
by the end of next year I suspect both GC and XBox will have hit the 12-15 million worldwide mark.. if a game company can not be happy with a 12 million userbase, well that is just pathetic..
I think its safe to say there are no losers, every console has pulled off good sales, all three have at least one game that is worth buying the console for (GC=Metroid Prime, Zelda, Mario, Eternal Darkness, RE series... Xbox= Halo, PGR, Mechassault, and if the price someday comes down, I would love to try Steel Batallion(sp?) , I have always hated mech games, but I really got into Mech Assault, it was easy for me to pick up, PS2 I think the GTA games stand out for pretty much anyone)
It is time for GC sales to pick up. remenber that for nintendo, December is the main part of the year.
DVFtaxman
05-Dec-2002, 21:07
Teasy - if only one obscure game shop had them in stock early and all the rest got them in on the 30th then I don't see how you could claim that would have too large an effect on sales!......this weeks sales will be the ones that show exactly what a difference this bundle has made......sorry if it sounded like I'm picking on you, but it does seam like you love to bash the Xbox no matter how well it does! :roll:
DVFtaxman, I didn't say only one shop had it in stock nor that that would somehow make big sales (although if one small shop could have it in how many others could?). I just corrected you on what store I was in, I wouldn't want to be accused of lying if you find out that GAME didn't have it in early, because I didn't go into GAME. I just thought that if one store had the bundle in then why shouldn't the rest.
BTW, show me where I've bashed XBox in this thread. I already said that XBox sales may still increase next week once everyone knows about the 4 game bundle.
DVFtaxman
05-Dec-2002, 21:43
After doing a lot of searching I have found absolutely no evidence that suggests that this pack was available any earlier than the 29th(other than your say so), and in fact EVERY thing I have found would agree with what the M$ rep told me........if it was available any earlier then I'd bet a large amount that someone would have posted as such on www.thedvdforums.com bargain forum as they are nearly always 1st.
Also I would add that Splinter Cell wasn't released until the 29th anyway! I might be pursuaded that some stores would get it in a day or maybe 2 early, but 5 days is pushing it!
.
.
.
....I'm not really too pro any of the consoles, but I find that all the misinformation and downright BS gets on my tits! It does more harm than good as it keeps gaming in the realm of kiddies tantrums!
DVFtaxman
Ok then, fine, I have no problem with that, it was deffinately out before the 29th in the store I was in though. But I'll agree it wasn't wide spread if you've checked around and found that it wasn't.
So only 2 days out of those 6 included the 4 game pack, if the 4 game pack had been available for the whole 6 days the weekly sales would have been a bit better, for how much better we'll have to wait until next week.
they said that the bundles were the cause of this without advertisement?
I don't know what stores think, I only looked around and saw the bundle (I only poped in to play PES2 :)).
But as I said there was awareness of this deal quite a while before the 30th, weeks before. Not wide spread with casual gamers of course, so as I said perhaps sales will increase again now that everyone knows about it. For MS's sake they better increase, because if that offer can't shift more XBox's then I really don't know what they'll have to come up with next.
But Teasy this assumption of yours is illogical. Why would the bundle have sold so well without advertisment? Just from the information i would have to say there is more evidence leading to the bundles being released closer to the 29th as TAXMAN said. Just because store A had it out long before (how ever long that arbitrary figure is :D) doesn't mean all other stores had it out at the same time.
BTW, show me where I've bashed XBox in this thread. I already said that XBox sales may still increase next week once everyone knows about the 4 game bundle.
I believe he said this:
sorry if it sounded like I'm picking on you, but it does seam like you love to bash the Xbox no matter how well it does!
He believes you are quick to jump on the xbox when you have the chance. You apparently believe that he said you infact did try to jump on the xbox.
Here is why he feels that way:
Actually that's not true, I am suprised, I'm suprised that XBox only sold 20,000 in the week after this new 4 game deal started
I can see why he could take these and several other statements that way. The immediate question i would ask you is now that you realized the bundle didn't affect those sales for the week are they good sales?
DVFtaxman
06-Dec-2002, 13:20
If stores had Splinter Cell before its 29th release date then I'm certain that there would have been people gloating about it, but the only people I have seen saying this are those that had internet orders with GAME that received their copy o the 28th.
So if we assume that the extra 10000 sales are due to one days sales with the new 4 game pack then we can look forward to figures in the region of 60 - 70,000 for the current week?(or am I being too optimistic?)
.
.
BTW, bashing isn't just a matter of saying that it cr@p, but can be more subtle and sublime.
But Teasy this assumption of yours is illogical. Why would the bundle have sold so well without advertisment?
Advertising was most deffinately caried about before the actual release date.
As for bashing the XBox, well DVFtaxman can think what he likes, but I did not bash the XBox AFAICS
The immediate question i would ask you is now that you realized the bundle didn't affect those sales for the week are they good sales?
My answer would be even though the bundle was not out for the full 6 days it was out for at least the last 2 days, so it will have effected the sales somewhat. The problem is we don't know how much, so I can't even judge the sales. It could be that quite allot of people were waiting for the deal and jumped on it as soon as they could in the first couple of days, or maybe not, I don't know. What I won't say now though is that they are bad sales, because as I said I can't tell.
So if we assume that the extra 10000 sales are due to one days sales with the new 4 game pack then we can look forward to figures in the region of 60 - 70,000 for the current week?(or am I being too optimistic?)
If the pack was out on the 29th then that's two days of sales (29th and 30th).
Yeah, I think MS would be hoping for 50,000+ sales next week for this bundle to have been a success for them. Wether we'll get them I don't know, when something new is released a big portion of its total sales occur in the first couple of days, but then sometimes something doesn't sell so great in the first few days and goes onto sell great. We'll have to wait and see.
BTW, bashing isn't just a matter of saying that it cr@p, but can be more subtle and sublime.
The problem with that is a subtle bash is easily imagined, as well as easily accidental.
BTW I'm glad to see that you think my posts are sublime :)
DVFtaxman
06-Dec-2002, 17:14
......Sublime isn't necessarily a good thing! :wink: 8) misguided youth, you'll be advocating the supremacy of PVR Kyro2 over the GF2gts next! :D
I think that M$ will be over the moon if they manage 50,000 sales in a week! That'd be one hell of a rise to get from a pack in!
CaptainHowdy
06-Dec-2002, 17:30
......Sublime isn't necessarily a good thing! :wink: 8) misguided youth, you'll be advocating the supremacy of PVR Kyro2 over the GF2gts next! :D
I think that M$ will be over the moon if they manage 50,000 sales in a week! That'd be one hell of a rise to get from a pack in!
MS are not the ones who have to be happy with the sales, the third parties are, if the packages of free games keep third party games from selling well, they will pull support, and thats pretty much the end of that.
Geeforcer
06-Dec-2002, 19:08
Third parties have better chance of selling Xbox games to someone who bought Xbox bundle then to someone who hasn't bought an Xbox.
......Sublime isn't necessarily a good thing! misguided youth
According to the dictionary your wrong, but don't let that discourage you :) Why don't you tell me exactly what you meant by sublime.
BTW, your the mis-guided youth on this forum boy, 1110 posts to 13 ;)
you'll be advocating the supremacy of PVR Kyro2 over the GF2gts next!
That's an extremely strange and out of place comment, but yeah it is superior overall AFAICS.
I think that M$ will be over the moon if they manage 50,000 sales in a week! That'd be one hell of a rise to get from a pack in!
Don't exagerate, that's to be expected. With a deal like this you'd expect massive sales in the first week of release. Because first week sales are usually as high as the sales will get from the offer, after that the sales will drop and level out, its called a sales spike.
DVFtaxman
06-Dec-2002, 20:07
hehehe, I think you were expecting me to be slating you! :lol:
By sublime I meant that your replies were well put together and obviously written with some thought, literacy and on the odd occassion a tad of eloquence. However, that doesn't exactly mean that they're correct, although you do quite often bring salient points that have often been overlooked by others............remember that there'd be no discussion or debate if there weren't 2 sides to every arguement!
On the subject of posting scores, I'd ask why that matters? I've been coming here for about 3years and have posted under several pseudonyms....unfortunately changing emails and a forgetful mind has given me cause to reregister on several occassions!
My reference to Kyro2 was a little joke as I recollect you as being one of PVR's stronger advocates on these forums! :wink: ....but that's getting off the point. :lol:
By sublime I meant that your replies were well put together and obviously written with some thought, literacy and on the odd occassion a tad of eloquence. However, that doesn't exactly mean that they're correct
Ok, for the record I didn't think that you meant I was correct when you said sublime.
On the subject of posting scores, I'd ask why that matters?
I was making a subtle point, mostly in jest, in reply to you mentioning my age. I was just saying that age in real life is very much like number of posts on this forum in that they're both unimportant when compared to knowledge and maturity. Although I suppose its not possible to re-incarnate yourself in real life like you can on a forum so its not quite the same :).. well unless your a Hindu or a Buddhist or course :)
CaptainHowdy
06-Dec-2002, 22:03
good lord, get a room you two..
good lord, get a room you two..
I wouldn't expect you to understand a civilised discussion, god knows you've never had one :) :P
DVFtaxman
06-Dec-2002, 22:31
hehehe, it appears that neither of us are much cop at comedy! :lol: .....but howdy pulls it off so well! :wink:
hehehe, it appears that neither of us are much cop at comedy! .....but howdy pulls it off so well!
Hehe
Hmm, lets see.
Q: What's the similarity between women and floor tiles?
A: Lay them right the first time and you can walk all over them for the rest of your life.
Any good? :)
DISCLAIMER:
This joke in no way represents the opinion of the person typing it :)
Or what about this:
A guy goes to see his doctor:
Doctor: What seems to be the problem?
Patient: I have a steering wheel down my pants
Doctor: How did that happen?
Patient: I don't know but its driving me nuts
No?.. ah well I'll stop now.
Latest UK figures are in:
PS2: 113.862 (+ 23%)
Xbox: 27.829 (+ 31%)
Cube: 11.531 (+ 15%)
GBA: 32.345 (+ 18%)
Holy Cow, the PS2 is seling like there's no tomorrow, about 3x(Xbox+GC)! Xbox is doing good but trailing PS2 by a huge margin, while GC fails to gain any momentum for the final weeks of the holiday sales. Wonder how it will affect Xbox sales if the mega bundle is indeed sold out soon as the rumors have it...
nonamer
10-Dec-2002, 22:06
Latest UK figures are in:
PS2: 113.862 (+ 23%)
Xbox: 27.829 (+ 31%)
Cube: 11.531 (+ 15%)
GBA: 32.345 (+ 18%)
Holy Cow, the PS2 is seling like there's no tomorrow, about 3x(Xbox+GC)! Xbox is doing good but trailing PS2 by a huge margin, while GC fails to gain any momentum for the final weeks of the holiday sales. Wonder how it will affect Xbox sales if the mega bundle is indeed sold out soon as the rumors have it...
:o :o :o
The PS2 is selling about 1/2 as well as in NA for UK!!! Considering the population differences, that's unbelievable!
Latest UK figures are in:
PS2: 113.862 (+ 23%)
Xbox: 27.829 (+ 31%)
Cube: 11.531 (+ 15%)
GBA: 32.345 (+ 18%)
Holy Cow, the PS2 is seling like there's no tomorrow, about 3x(Xbox+GC)! Xbox is doing good but trailing PS2 by a huge margin, while GC fails to gain any momentum for the final weeks of the holiday sales. Wonder how it will affect Xbox sales if the mega bundle is indeed sold out soon as the rumors have it...
the Gc is selling quite bad. I heard there is a price drop next week. The xbox is doing what it can with the effect of the bundle not too bad. Only conclusion you can draw, ps2 is the videogame market.
DVFtaxman
10-Dec-2002, 22:50
where have those figures come from? :o At that rate every single person in the UK would have a PS2 within a year! :wink:
Holy Cow, the PS2 is seling like there's no tomorrow, about 3x(Xbox+GC)
Whats really scary is that SCEE, unlike others, isn't giving away a free 3 bed, 2 bath, house with each console.
I thought the "power and graphics superiority of XBox and Gamecube" was suppose to lead them to the promised land by now? I mean, it's all the graphics, right? What happened?
Johnny Awesome
10-Dec-2002, 23:06
Poor Nintendo. :(
Xbox is doing quite well, but boy those PS2 numbers are good.
It'll be interesting to see the November US numbers...
Went to Toy R Us in a UK store and they are sold out of the XBOX JSFR and Sega GT deal as well as the other deal with Splinter Cell and Halo + above games.
Still they did have some budles with Tom Clancy's games left.
Full stock of GC and PS2 bundles though.
The assistance that attended to me was a bit of a 'durr, can i help u sir? [action=scratches head]' so didnt even bother trying to engage in any meaningful conversation with him about how each system is doing...
oops, sorry I forgot to post the source of the numbers:
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/news/news_story.php?id=84480
I would like some numbers from other european countries to see how big of a market Europe as a whole is by now, should certainly dwarf Japan in hardware sales this year. Maybe if some more publishers would get those poles out of their behinds, we'd actually get to see some more timely software releases boosting sales too (I guess GC sales would be way better right now if we didn't have to wait till friggin' march 03 fo the release of MP!)...
Yeah poor Nintendo they only moved 43,876 units of GCN and GBA for the week. :roll:
I think the point, Goldni, is that in the home console market, Nintendo is losing ground (again) this generation. And this time to another complete newcomer to the market - Microsoft.
If and when Sony or Microsoft ever decide to enter the handheld market, Nintendo is going to have itself one hell of a wakeup call.
Kolgar
Heh all nitendo has to do is keep all thier hand helds backwards compatible and they wont have a problem.
No? Not even if Sony launches a portable game system with an exclusive Final Fantasy or Dragon Quest game?
Certainly, the same developer support the company enjoys in the home market would prove a mighty weapon in the handheld arena.
And if Sony were to take a cue from Nintendo and build in some kind of synergy between its market-leading home systems and such a new portable, they'd have a large base of potential users.
There's a lot of opportunity there. I think it's only a matter of time.
Kolgar
How does one week of the Xbox selling more than Gamecube in the UK mean "losing ground in the console market"?
Look I did'nt mean to start something but "poor Nintendo" remarks and "Nintendo is doomed" stuf just cracks me up. People forget Nintendo has TWO machines it's marketing and selling globally. Just because XB has FINALLY pulled ahead in the UK does'nt mean a thing.
Should'nt the XB be ahead of the GCN in the UK? I mean they have lowered thier price several times, included several giveaways and bundle deals. Advertised 3X as much. Has a stronger Christmas UK lineup than GCN. Bought the UK's best developer (Rare). I mean XB SHOULD be ahead of GCN in Europe.
MS has spent close to over a half billion in Europe alone marketing XB since it's launch..IT SHOULD BE AHEAD! Yet both of these fantastic superior consoles get thier asses handed to them by an inferior POS in the HypeStation 2. But I digress.
marconelly!
11-Dec-2002, 04:48
Yet both of these fantastic superior consoles get thier asses handed to them by an inferior POS in the HypeStation 2. But I digress.
I can see your despair... and laught at it :lol: :evil:
Uh, I thought Xbox had pulled ahead of GC in the UK weeks ago?
Yet both of these fantastic superior consoles get thier asses handed to them by an inferior POS in the HypeStation 2.
What makes a "fantastic, superior console"? I thought it was all about the games.
Oh, right. It is, and PS2 has more of 'em. That's a good part of what makes the PlayStation brand is so strong - because technical superiority only goes so far.
And thank goodness for that!
Kolgar
well i guess because they are new they are superior? We just aren't seeing the draw in certain areas as we did with the release of the "16bit" consoles.
Xbox is doing quite well
Johnny, you says "Poor Nintendo", but do you ever wonder where the XBox would be if they weren't packing in 2 or 4 or whatever many games (with another controller too somewhere, no?!?) they are now at that price?
Granted, their achieving good sales, but look at what cost (not just monetary).
Xbox has indeed been ahead of GC in terms of sales for quite a while now.
I still find these PS2 sales figures pretty startling. Given another couple of weeks with similar sales they'll have sold about 500,000 in the month before Christmas. That's just incredible. How come the things aren't selling out? Can they really manufacture PS2s at that rate?
I think it's time I bought some shares in some game retailers...
Interesting that MS didn't offer crazy bundles in JP.. perhaps thats a cultural sign of weakness (or something)?
Also, is MS is selling bundles "while supplies last", the initial run must have been their target expectation, and if they've sold out, then the MS suits must be more than satisfied.
edit: it's also good-ish that MS didnt put all their eggs in one basket (ie: Holiday season), and instead has a comparatively strong 1st Qrtr 2k3 line up (instead of the usual draught). PD:Orta, DoAXBV, Brute Force, Crimson Skies, KotOR, Ninja Gaiden (from EBGames from Jan 1 to March 1 [I know a few are placeholder dates]).
Heh, that said, my money's still going to Devil May Cry 2 :)
vince,
Johnny, you says "Poor Nintendo", but do you ever wonder where the XBox would be if they weren't packing in 2 or 4 or whatever many games (with another controller too somewhere, no?!?) they are now at that price?
...and game cubes are coming with 10 games in that area. Yet, there' still not much of an increase in sales. I've always thought that consoles SHOULD come with at least one game. It's a rip off if it doesn't IMO. However 10 games is a bit much and even 5 games is a deal you can't refuse. how can anyone refuse 10 games?
CaptainHowdy
11-Dec-2002, 12:50
vince,
Johnny, you says "Poor Nintendo", but do you ever wonder where the XBox would be if they weren't packing in 2 or 4 or whatever many games (with another controller too somewhere, no?!?) they are now at that price?
...and game cubes are coming with 10 games in that area. Yet, there' still not much of an increase in sales.
the packages with 10 games are at a greater price, they are giving them away, and there are no flagship titles involved, just old crap that sells for $10 anyways. so they are actually paying more getting the bundle(and only one store has it, its not an official deal)
I also thought the xbox bundle was only avaible at certain stores and it too was not official.
DVFtaxman
11-Dec-2002, 13:13
GameCube Console with
Rocky
WWE Wrestlemania X8
Zoo Cube
Extreme G3
Driven
Plus GameCube Ultimate Pack:
X Racer Wheel
Powergrip Controller
4Mb Memory Card
.....FOR £199 SOUNDS LIKE A PRETTY GOOD AND COMPARABLE DEAL TO ME.
CaptainHowdy
11-Dec-2002, 13:28
GameCube Console with
Rocky
WWE Wrestlemania X8
Zoo Cube
Extreme G3
Driven
Plus GameCube Ultimate Pack:
X Racer Wheel
Powergrip Controller
4Mb Memory Card
.....FOR £199 SOUNDS LIKE A PRETTY GOOD AND COMPARABLE DEAL TO ME.
than you obviously havent played any of those games.. rocky and extreme G3 are the only ones I couldnt see throwing away, compared to a system with Sega GT, Halo, Splinter Cell, seriously, even I say no competition, I am not excusing Nintendo, its thier own fault, they have been giving Europe the shaft on games.
Johnny Awesome
11-Dec-2002, 14:12
Well, it doesn't matter either way. The point is that MS is willing to do what it takes to outsell Nintendo in Europe and North America. Japan is a lost cause of course, but generally irrelevant anyway. Nearly all blockbusters are made in the west now (see the latest weekly sales charts for details).
It probably only cost MS about $10 per Xbox to include the Sega games and I have a feeling that it isn't going to affect future game purchases by those customers either. They'll still buy ten games over the life of the system, no problem.
Spending $10 to steal a Nintendo customer and get someone buying games a year earlier sounds like good business to me. Adding Splinter Cell and Halo for 50 pounds isn't bad either, since those are the customers that are going to go out and get Counterstrike, Brute Force, MechAssault, and Unreal Championship eventually.
Nintendo is the one who needs a new marketing plan. Where is Metroid Prime for the UK? That was a SERIOUS mistake this holiday.
Quincy
I also thought the xbox bundle was only avaible at certain stores and it too was not official.
The XBox 4 games bundle with Halo and Splinter Cell is official. The games come pre-packed inside the XBox box and the box also has the pics of all four games on the front. Oh and its in all game stores.
Johnny
It probably only cost MS about $10 per Xbox to include the Sega games
How would it only cost $10 for MS to pack in 2 Sega games like JSRF and Sega GT? Do you think that Sega would let MS have those games at a loss or something?.. I doubt it. Sega will at least be charging $50 for those 2 games.
Spending $10 to steal a Nintendo customer and get someone buying games a year earlier sounds like good business to me.
Those 4 games will be costing MS more like $150 per console in paying Sega, Ubi Soft and lost profits from potential Halo buyers who now don't need to buy the game.
Don't get my wrong, its worth it for MS if it works, but so far its not working as well as it should. Its upped the sales, but not to a level where the pack is making anywhere near as much of a difference as it should. I would have expected minimum XBox sales of 50,000 in the first week of the 4 game bundle. But until I see sales drop back down again (this week they're still rising from last week) I won't say the pack has failed as they may still keep rising.
if you say so, but I don't reacall seeing any pictures of that box offer anywhere. I do know that JSRF and sega GT both come on a single DVD. they may do the same thing with all the games for all I know.
How would it only cost $10 for MS to pack in 2 Sega games like JSRF and Sega GT? Do you think that Sega would let MS have those games at a loss or something?.. I doubt it. Sega will at least be charging $50 for those 2 games.
How are they going to sell the games at a loss when they were already on the market for a few months? JSRF was already discontinued. I'm sure both of these titles were extremly cheap. Sega didn't even have to pay for the manufacturing of the single DVD they both come on. They just get money back.
$50? hardly. I 'd make a guess that sega is getting between 10-20$ for both games together in this deal. Publishers don't make anywhere close to $25 dollars on a console game released to the market. More like 12-15 dollars when it's new. On a discontinued product, even less.
Those 4 games will be costing MS more like $150 per console in paying Sega, Ubi Soft and lost profits from potential Halo buyers who now don't need to buy the game.
Once again, that's a pretty unrealistic price Teasy. All MS has to do is wave the manufacturing costs in favour of including the game with the console, and right there the publisher is saving roughly 12 dollars per copy (box, manual, and discs). They probably worked out a deal where they (sega/Ubisoft) make 10-12 bucks per game. Not to mention how many people would want a sequel for the exposure the title has gotten. They wouldn't do this deal if it didn't benefit them in some way.
Halo is a moot point, since it sold over 2 million copies and has long made it's development costs back. Now all you want to do before releasing the sequel is to make sure every xbox owner has a copy of the game. Then the sequel will sell to an even bigger base of users that has played the title.
However 10 games is a bit much and even 5 games is a deal you can't refuse. how can anyone refuse 10 games?
Well, appearently 100,000 people did - which is my point. Johnney says, "Whatever it takes". So, cut a 1 year old console down to 1/2 it's price, pack in 4 games... what next?
Granted, they had a moderate sales spike attached to the pack-in, but it's a short-term stimulus, what happens when sales return to the base level - only at lower costs and with 4 games? Pack in 8 games? 16? Give the console away for free?
I think the other comments, including GC pack-in, have been explained better than I could :)
Australia
article dated Nov 6 2002, Australian IT
Lifetime sales now total 555,163 for the PS2, 126,111 for the Xbox and 46,145 for the GameCube. The PS2 launched in November 2000, while the Xbox and GameCube launched in March and May this year respectively.
article dated 6/12/2002, PC World
But despite recent figures, Burnham said PlayStation 2 still maintains a strong installed base in the local market. Currently, there are 139,208 Xbox consoles in use in Australia, and 569,398 PlayStation 2 consoles.
Xbox is still outselling GC there and PS2 still outsold both, have been like that since time immemorial :) (Planet Xbox usually carries week to week AU hw sales)
Germany
i remember reading that Xbox has now outsold GC in Germany from a trade mag there (MCV Germany), will poke around google for info
UK
if i remember correctly i saw a total sales figure for UK sometime ago, but i can't remember from where
but weekly sales seems to follow the same trend as Australia, ps2 leads by a huge margin usually, xbox second (usually close to double the figure for GC), and GC last, GBA if included will be 2nd after ps2 usually
weekly figures from CVG
Europe
i remember reading a Gamespot interview recently with some Xbox official that states that Xbox has now outsold GC in Europe (not in the main body of the interview, but in the introdution by Gamespot)
unfortunately since i'm not a member of GS complete, cannot dig back the article
Japan
xbox usually accounts for less than 2% total sales for console market there (figures from Media Create)
pattern, PS2~ 30k-70k, GC ~30k, Xbox~2k
all in all, i think worldwide GC will still lead Xbox by ~1-2 mil solely on the lack of strength in the Japanese market for the Xbox, but then again i see MS is promoting more in other regions than Japan anyway, perhaps they will focus on Japan in the next gen (Hirohisa Ohura already talk about Xbox 2 being alot smaller than Xbox for one thing, he's now working with the main Xbox team in US instead of leading the MS KK in Japan)
Xbox in the new regions (HK, TW, SG, and soon KR) has also gained a good amount of press with MS launching locally there (with cheaper games then the rest of the world to promote oroginal games over pirated games)
PS2 is the real star here IMO, pushing huge huge numbers in every region, but both Xbox and GC could still end up with a sizeable userbase to be profitable
-aneep-
$50? hardly. I 'd make a guess that sega is getting between 10-20$ for both games together in this deal. Publishers don't make anywhere close to $25 dollars on a console game released to the market. More like 12-15 dollars when it's new. On a discontinued product, even less.
Those 4 games will be costing MS more like $150 per console in paying Sega, Ubi Soft and lost profits from potential Halo buyers who now don't need to buy the game.
Once again, that's a pretty unrealistic price Teasy. All MS has to do is wave the manufacturing costs in favour of including the game with the console, and right there the publisher is saving roughly 12 dollars per copy (box, manual, and discs). They probably worked out a deal where they (sega/Ubisoft) make 10-12 bucks per game. Not to mention how many people would want a sequel for the exposure the title has gotten. They wouldn't do this deal if it didn't benefit them in some way.
The day, the bundle was annouced, analysts downgraded Sega stocks and the stock value went down, not exactly the nice picture you imply.
CaptainHowdy
11-Dec-2002, 19:52
True, Worldwide number count as of now
according to Businessweek (http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/dec2002/tc20021210_5333.htm)
PS2 47,000,000
GCN 10,000,000
Xbox 8.2,000,000
True, Worldwide number count as of now
according to Businessweek (http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/dec2002/tc20021210_5333.htm)
PS2 47,000,000
GCN 10,000,000
Xbox 8.2,000,000
They must be shipped numbers. I do not see how the GC or the xbox (not sure about the ps2) can be at this level.
wazoo,
The day, the bundle was annouced, analysts downgraded Sega stocks and the stock value went down, not exactly the nice picture you imply.
I seriously doubt analysts decided to downgrade sega when they found out about the bundle. They were more than likely downgraded them for "other" performance reasons before that occured. Not exactly the ugly picture you imply.
CaptainHowdy
11-Dec-2002, 21:51
True, Worldwide number count as of now
according to Businessweek (http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/dec2002/tc20021210_5333.htm)
PS2 47,000,000
GCN 10,000,000
Xbox 8.2,000,000
They must be shipped numbers. I do not see how the GC or the xbox (not sure about the ps2) can be at this level.
yea, probally right, the last numbers were GC around 7 mil, Xbox at 5.5 mil, that was back in the summer though
wazoo,
The day, the bundle was annouced, analysts downgraded Sega stocks and the stock value went down, not exactly the nice picture you imply.
I seriously doubt analysts decided to downgrade sega when they found out about the bundle. They were more than likely downgraded them for "other" performance reasons before that occured. Not exactly the ugly picture you imply.
of course, the sega sports failure was a big part of this downgrade, but the bundle of the yet-to-be-released sega GT (bundling a relatively old game like jsrf is no problem) was seen as a lack of confidence in its own capacity at selling games by classical retail chains.
aneep, there's two things I'd like to note about Australia:
- First is that unlike the UK weekly sales there have Xbox almost at the same level as PS2, as in both selling ~10k units 2-3 weeks ago and both selling ~15k units the following week (I don't have the exact numbers anymore but they were pretty close with PS2 leading only by a couple hundred units). In the UK, while Xbox has pulled away from GC, PS2 is WAY ahead of both competitors, so UK and AU are two quite different scenarios.
- Second, the thing about those total numbers is that PS2 has been on sale for almost 18 months longer than both GC and Cube. considering that the lead is not exactly mind bogglingly huge, take away those 18 months of sales and I guess Xbox would be pretty closer actually...
Anyway, the rest of the world has quite a different picture for the console race (race sounds nicer than war anyway). ;)
Other than that, I can also remember some percentages given lately for Germany, probably the same you referred to (I read them on www.gamesmarkt.de ). According to a press announcement Xbox managed to double market share in weekly sales a month or so ago. Sounds impressive at first, but only until you realize that market share prior to the Sega bundle was only barely in the double digits (I think it hovered @ ~12%), so I would expect it at ~25% now, respectable but not close to PS2 which supposedly still makes up above 60% (which leaves 10-15% for Nintendo at the moment). No word about total sales numbers, but they should see a huge lead for PS2 and GC should still be ahead of Xbox in installed base.
There is now a new deal starting today, where everyone buying the Sega bundle till christmas can get a copy of Halo for free (as long as supply lasts), so MS appears quite comitted to the European market, a feeling that I don't get at all from Nintendo lately... MS has no other choice though, they need a strong base in NA and Europe since Japan is a lost cause.
Johnny Awesome
12-Dec-2002, 00:19
It's all moot. Microsoft is going to spend enough money to ensure the success of Xbox. The tie-in ratios are good. They'll probably hit 7 million sold by the end of the year and 9 million by E3 2003. Then probably 13 million by end of 2003, 19 millon by the end of 2004 and 25 million by the end of 2005. That's a fine start this generation. They'll probably sell 250 million games in total. Good enough to break even.
I realize that you naysayers aren't going to shut up until Xbox hits 15 million world-wide, but I'm just giving you a leg up. :)
BenSkywalker
12-Dec-2002, 03:01
They must be shipped numbers. I do not see how the GC or the xbox (not sure about the ps2) can be at this level.
It's possible that those are shipped numbers, but I find it unlikely. Recall that we are in the middle of December and the last numbers we saw were tracking firms for October(which underreport). On a normal basis, the console market does close to 40% of its annual sales in ~six or seven weeks, the period we are in right now.
From the last numbers I saw the Cube was closing in on 3Million units in Japan and 2.5Million units in Europe. Tack on 1.1Million units for last years US sales and you are looking at them needing 3.4Million units selling through in the US to date this year to be at their figure, that certainly sounds reasonable to me. They were likely right around 2.25Million at the end of October(adjusting from NPDs numbers). Also, they had a press release a couple of weeks ago about the 12Millionth Flipper chip rolling off the lines. Having a large quantity in excess of 2Million units(this was a couple of weeks ago) in the pipe for the Cube seems unreasonable to me.
For the XBox, they are pushing near 2.5Million units in Europe based on the last numbers I have seen with another .25Million in Japan. Add 1.3Million for their launch last year in the states and they would need about 3.95Million in the US this year to be at 8Million. IIRC, the XBox was @3.4Million as of the end of October in the US, they should have already surpassed the 8Million mark by a decent margin actually.
PS2 noone seems to have a problem with, so I won't bother with breaking that down ;)
For the XBox, they are pushing near 2.5Million units in Europe based on the last numbers I have seen
Where have you seen full European numbers for XBox and GC?
BenSkywalker
12-Dec-2002, 12:27
Where have you seen full European numbers for XBox and GC?
I don't remember, Evil's maybe, perhaps GameDaily...? I check about fifteen different sites a day for news(gaming news), don't recall which site it was from. They didn't break anything down(all they stated was total numbers sold) so I didn't bother posting anything about it here.
For those not yet bored by numbers (I find them oddly entertaining sometimes), here's some fresh MediaCreate sales figures from Japan for the week of Dec. 2nd - 8th 2002 ( source www.gamefront.de ):
Console Units sold Previous week 2002 Total
Game Boy Advance 120.400 145.900 2.579.700
PlayStation2 74.100 66.300 3.242.000
Gamecube 26.200 35.100 984.700
Xbox 5.900 3.100 282.700
Xbox numbers see the biggest change, although still dissapointing they're the best sales in months, IIRC having almost doubled since last week. Better to have small and late holiday sales than none at all I guess. :lol:
Other than that not much going on, PS2 managed to take a bite worth 10k customers from GC, while GBA is still reigning supreme. ;)
Once again, that's a pretty unrealistic price Teasy. All MS has to do is wave the manufacturing costs in favour of including the game with the console, and right there the publisher is saving roughly 12 dollars per copy (box, manual, and discs). They probably worked out a deal where they (sega/Ubisoft) make 10-12 bucks per game.
I am sure MS got a good deal from Sega for the two games - they weren't selling anyway.
Splinter Cell is different, though - that game sells very well indeed, and to include it in a free bundle, you can bet that MS have had to pay UbiSoft the [nearly] full profit they would have made from a stand-alone SC sale.
Halo is of course "free" for MS, as it is their game - but seeing as over half of Xbox buyers also buy Halo, including it for free in a bundle costs MS their normal Halo profits!
By giving Halo away to new Xbox users, I think MS is investing in future Halo 2 sales by introducing new gamers to it who might not have bought it otherwise... smart move if you ask me, especially when you factor in the XBL-Halo 2 potential attach rate.
How to resurrect an old thread....
Latest sale numbers for week ending Dec 14 in the UK:
PS2 111,066 (-2%)
Xbox 32,805 (+18%)
Gamecube 13,403 (+16%)
Looks like the PS2 figures have finally plateaued. Didn't think they could keep on rising forever.
Johnny Awesome
19-Dec-2002, 14:45
Big mistake not having Metroid ready for Christmas there. Nintendo is getting slaughtered.
Latest Japanese charts: Hardware
Game Boy Advance: 241,600 (Annual: 2,821,400)
PlayStation 2: 115,200 (Annual: 3,357,200)
GameCube: 67,500 (Annual: 1,052,300)
Xbox: 13,400 (Annual: 296,200)
PlayStation: 2,800 (Annual: 213,300)
Wonder Swan Crystal: 2,600 (Annual: 107,300)
Wonder Swan Color: 1,700 (Annual: 118,100)
Game Boy Color: 520 (Annual: 81,900)
Game Boy: 370 (Annual: 5,600)
Nintendo 64: 240 (Annual: 6,400)
Wonder Swan: 220 (Annual: 8,400)
Dreamcast: 19 (Annual: 17,500)
PocketStation: 15 (Annual: 1,300)
Software
1. Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker (GameCube: 407,700)
2. Winning Eleven 6 Final Evolution (PlayStation 2: 336,500)
3. Pokemon Sapphire (Game Boy Advance: 1,014,500)
4. Pokemon Ruby (Game Boy Advance: 1,016,000)
5. .Hack (PlayStation 2: 96,000)
6. Guilty Gear XX (PlayStation 2: 74,900)
7. Clock Tower 3 (PlayStation 2: 50,000)
8. Mario Party 4 (GameCube: 414,300)
9. Rockman EXE 3 (Game Boy Advance: 120,800)
10. Gallop Racer 6 (PlayStation 2: 44,800)
Big mistake not having Metroid ready for Christmas there. Nintendo is getting slaughtered.
I think this is true. They're using Metroid and Zelda footage in adverts (a kind of "you'll only be able to play these on Gamecube" ploy). I think getting at least Metroid out in time for Xmas would have helped sales somewhat.
They're looking much better in Japan though.
13,4k Xboxen in Japan, are those weekly sales numbers? That's like a 6x times increase in 2 weeks and look how far they still are behind (less than a third in annual sales compared to GC and even worse in weekly sales)!
What's all the more interesting though is that this christmas the UK is looking like almost as big a market as Japan! :o Germany, France and Italy certainly aren't small markets either so Europe as a whole certainly has outgrown Japan by a huge margin by now in importance. Nintendo should have tried to release at least ONE of its hit games here in time for christmas, all the advertising in the world (they actually do advertise a good deal on TV here) doesn't help you without games to back it up (see Xbox in the US)...
Jon Brittan
19-Dec-2002, 22:18
Big mistake not having Metroid ready for Christmas there. Nintendo is getting slaughtered.
I don't personally keep up to date with Gamecube not having one and not being interested in one, but I was shopping in some decent games stores over here today (in the UK that is) and almost all of them were carrying Metroid Prime, so I'm pretty sure it's out here...
Jon.. tell me which shops and I'm there! :)
But seriously, I'm 100% sure its not out here yet.. I only wish it was :(
You probably just saw a short demo for it, when I was at GAME today they had a double demo (non playable) of Metroid Prime and Zelda: WW.
Magnum PI
19-Dec-2002, 22:35
Big mistake not having Metroid ready for Christmas there. Nintendo is getting slaughtered.
I don't personally keep up to date with Gamecube not having one and not being interested in one, but I was shopping in some decent games stores over here today (in the UK that is) and almost all of them were carrying Metroid Prime, so I'm pretty sure it's out here...
not confusing with metroid fusion ? metroid prime european release date is march 2003.
Jon Brittan
20-Dec-2002, 10:55
Jon.. tell me which shops and I'm there! :)
But seriously, I'm 100% sure its not out here yet.. I only wish it was :(
You probably just saw a short demo for it, when I was at GAME today they had a double demo (non playable) of Metroid Prime and Zelda: WW.
And to MagnumPI too...
Nope, not a demo, boxes on shelves with price tags, not "Available in..." tags.
Both GameExchange and Virgin had copies on their shelves. I'm going back into Cambridge today, so I'll check that it is the full UK release, but they definately had the boxes yesterday.
Jon.. if your right here then you'll go right on my love share list :) (see other thread).
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