View Full Version : A Year Later: MGS2 still impresses
Well, I was VERY bored this evening, so I popped MGS2 into my underplayed PS2 (been having more fun with Xbox Live), and WOW, the cinematic quality graphics (most notably in the Tanker level) still amazes me. There were a few shots where I had to hit the R1 button _just_ to make sure.
What also gets me, is how there is next to nil for load times of the cutscenes. Especially when RAY is stolen, the scenes are flashing from various rooms / angles, and there was still zilch waiting (also notable when the environment changes from the tanker to NY harbour).
Again, its expected for a flag ship title that took 3 years to make, but I have to say that the game has definitely stood the test of time. The gameplay graphics are decent-to-ho-hum, but its the cinemas that blew me away. Hideo Kojima-san should be allowed to direct a movie (only as long as he doesnt write it :lol: ).
I can see why Konami is so PS2-happy with the amount of time and resources they spent on certain games (MGS2, SH2). With the number of inhouse tools & techniques for PS2 they've developed, I doubt they'd want to ramp up on another platform.
the shadows and the lighting impress me the most. They are not solid black. They are clearly permiated by like and diffuse naturely.
the shadows and the lighting impress me the most. They are not solid black. They are clearly permiated by like and diffuse naturely.
I think if I had to narrow it down, I'd say the geometry impresses me the most. The level of detail on the Tanker from an exterior view (in a cutscene) is overwhelming. Same with the brown "pipe" area right before the Marine holds... there are _alot_ of nicely curved surfaces there.
It wouldnt surprise me if half of the game environments were actually gourad shaded, but the overall presentation is amazing.
Did KCEJ ever release a polygon-per-second number for the game?
PC-Engine
04-Dec-2002, 09:31
Other than MGS and ZOE has Konami made anything else worth mentioning?
Other than MGS and ZOE has Konami made anything else worth mentioning?
Silent Hill, Contra, Castlevania, DDR, ISS Soccer, Suikoden, and one very overlooked strategy game, Ring of Red. They also have a whole ESPN sports line, but I don't think they're too hot.
It does?
Ingame looks huhawhatever. You must mean the 30fps, scripted non-interactive, black borders cutscenes with limited objects onscreen. :oops:
Ozymandis
04-Dec-2002, 11:31
I always wanted Ring of Red. Reminded me of Front Mission... next time I go in to EB or Babbages, that game is going to be near the top of my list :)
IMO the most impressive thing about Metal Gear Solid 2 was the character design. The graphics were nice, but the artwork- WOW.
It does?
Ingame looks huhawhatever. You must mean the 30fps, scripted non-interactive, black borders cutscenes with limited objects onscreen. :oops:
...and nothing on any system as come close to comparing to it :)
I always wanted Ring of Red. Reminded me of Front Mission... next time I go in to EB or Babbages, that game is going to be near the top of my list :)
IMO the most impressive thing about Metal Gear Solid 2 was the character design. The graphics were nice, but the artwork- WOW.
You mean the albino/asexual Raiden? :P Hehe, I always liked Fortune. She sounded _ALOT_ cooler in Japanese though.
Ring of Red is great, just remember that its a very first-gen PS2 game. Its also got a very cool story set in 'alternate timeline' 1960s Japan. Sort of like, 'what would have happened if the US didn't drop the bomb?' (Split North & South Japan). Strategy elements are pretty good... no factories/resources though :( (I hate working with limited troops). Missions are loooooooooong too, like some can take up to 6-7 hours. Definitely a good game though.
marconelly!
04-Dec-2002, 16:08
Yes, I absolutely consider MGS2 as one of the most impressive (visually and aurally) games ever made. Everything about it is just so tight and incredibly polished to a point I think it will stand the test of time for years to come. They have accomplished certain level they were aiming for, and there is nothing really that sticks out as a sore thumb. Just some of the things I like to see over and over:
- Mind numbing special effects (rain, underwater...)
- Amazing cut scenes
- Smooth animation and framerate
- Clever scene setups, color usage, dynamic camera angles
- Boss fights - there is so much stuff going on during those
PC-Engine
04-Dec-2002, 16:10
Yes, I absolutely consider MGS2 as one of the most impressive (visually and aurally) games ever made. Everything about it is just so tight and incredibly polished to a point I think it will stand the test of time for years to come. They have accomplished certain level they were aiming for, and there is nothing really that sticks out as a sore thumb. Just some of the things I like to see over and over:
- Mind numbing special effects (rain, underwater...)
- Amazing cut scenes
- Smooth animation and framerate
- Clever scene setups, color usage, dynamic camera angles
- Boss fights - there is so much stuff going on during those
You forgot one:
MAJOR TEARING!
marconelly!
04-Dec-2002, 16:17
You forgot one: MAJOR TEARING!Play Splinter Cell and come back to me talking about MAJOR tearing in MGS2.
MGS2 has tearing so small and so insignificant (and so seldom) that I really don't see how can anyone take it against it :\
Btw, if you are basing your assessment from the Xbox version - you're playing the wrong version.
There was tearing in the SC demo, but in the retail version its basically gone, at least I haven't envountered anything worth mentioning yet and I'm mid-mission 6. There might be slight differences between PAL and NTSC versions though. <shurg>
As for MGS2, never had any long sessions with it, but I certainly don't remember any significant tearing during the short time I enjoyed with it either.
marconelly!
04-Dec-2002, 16:45
There was tearing in the SC demo, but in the retail version its basically gone, at least I haven't envountered anything worth mentioning yet and I'm mid-mission 6Maybe it's different in the PAL version. From what I've seen, it's maybe slightly better than it was in the demo.
PC-Engine
04-Dec-2002, 16:47
You forgot one: MAJOR TEARING!Play Splinter Cell and come back to me talking about MAJOR tearing in MGS2.
MGS2 has tearing so small and so insignificant (and so seldom) that I really don't see how can anyone take it against it :\
Btw, if you are basing your assessment from the Xbox version - you're playing the wrong version.
I'm basing it on the PS2 version and no it's is not small seldom or insignificant. It's a known issue, one that's often swept under the carpet because it's seen as a weakness.
JF_Aidan_Pryde
04-Dec-2002, 16:53
Why hasn't MGS2 gone platinum yet? I am waiting to scoop a copy.
marconelly!
04-Dec-2002, 16:54
I'm basing it on the PS2 version and no it's is not small seldom or insignificant. It's a known issue, one that's often swept under the carpet because it's seen as a weakness.
Oh well, say as you wish. In my opinion, it's swept under the carpet exactly because it's so insignificant and seldom, but if that gives you more anti PS2 ammo, then more power to you...
Why hasn't MGS2 gone platinum yet? I am waiting to scoop a copy.MGS2 Greatest Hits edition can be purchased, I think? I know Silent Hill 2 GH can.
PC-Engine
04-Dec-2002, 17:04
Oh well, say as you wish. In my opinion, it's swept under the carpet exactly because it's so insignificant and seldom, but if that gives you more anti PS2 ammo, then more power to you...
My eyes don't lie...fortunately.
MGS2 has visible tearing.
GT3 has that grainy popping phenomenon.
It's common knowledge.
Reznor007
04-Dec-2002, 17:13
Other than MGS and ZOE has Konami made anything else worth mentioning?
X-Men arcade, Simpsons arcade, Ninja Turtles arcade(I own one of these :) ). But for recent stuff, the only one I've seen that really caught my attention was the new Contra...I might have to try that one.
marconelly!
04-Dec-2002, 17:16
GT3 has that grainy popping phenomenon.
:roll:
Why do I even bother...
Just enjoy in your anti-PS2 loathing. I'm sure it feels good.
PC-Engine
04-Dec-2002, 17:18
GT3 has that grainy popping phenomenon.
:roll:
Why do I even bother...
Just enjoy in your hate...
I'm not bashing it, just pointing out that it's not perfect like everyone thinks :-?
Ozymandis
04-Dec-2002, 19:57
You mean the albino/asexual Raiden? :P Hehe, I always liked Fortune. She sounded _ALOT_ cooler in Japanese though.
Ring of Red is great, just remember that its a very first-gen PS2 game. Its also got a very cool story set in 'alternate timeline' 1960s Japan. Sort of like, 'what would have happened if the US didn't drop the bomb?' (Split North & South Japan). Strategy elements are pretty good... no factories/resources though :( (I hate working with limited troops). Missions are loooooooooong too, like some can take up to 6-7 hours. Definitely a good game though.
I didn't mind Raiden. Yes, I skipped a few of his CODEC conversations when they got too whiny, but I didn't really have too much a problem with him as others did.
Honestly, I didn't really care for MGS1. To this day I haven't beaten it. Tenchu really overshadowed that game, to the point where it didn't interest me a bit 8)
I think PC-Engine is getting MGS2 mixed up with FF X. FF X has the ungodly tearing, MGS2 is clean as a baby's bottom.
zidane1strife
04-Dec-2002, 21:31
My eyes don't lie...fortunately.
MGS2 has visible tearing.
GT3 has that grainy popping phenomenon.
It's common knowledge.
GT3 only has shimmering in the distance during gameplay, it's been a while so i'm not sure but i think the replays are clean.... It was an early ps2 title so cut it some slack...
As for MGS2....
I only saw tearing when i went to the edges of the platform were u fight the fatguy... and when u quickly did first person camera movements.... Both don't matter cause u don't have to perform such actions during normal gameplay... hence konami not cleaning up such a trivial image problem...
PC-Engine
04-Dec-2002, 21:58
I think PC-Engine is getting MGS2 mixed up with FF X. FF X has the ungodly tearing, MGS2 is clean as a baby's bottom.
I'm not getting it mixed up read Zidane's post.
GT3 has that grainy popping phenomenon during replays especially when the camera zooms in on the cars. Of course if you have a 13" tv you'll probably won't notice any artifacts. Considering these games too almost 3 years to develop, it's bad :wink:
Logan Leonhart
04-Dec-2002, 22:02
MGS2 has visible tearing.
GT3 has that grainy popping phenomenon.
It's common knowledge.
Sigh...you not only blow small, insignificant graphical problems out of proportion, you make them seem that just because of those, these games shouldn´t get praise for their graphical accomplishments. :roll:
PC-Engine
04-Dec-2002, 22:09
MGS2 has visible tearing.
GT3 has that grainy popping phenomenon.
It's common knowledge.
Sigh...you not only blow small, insignificant graphical problems out of proportion, you make them seem that just because of those, these games shouldn´t get praise for their graphical accomplishments. :roll:
Considering how long the game was in development it IS significant IMO. To you I'm exaggerating, to me you're downplaying... :wink:
CaptainHowdy
04-Dec-2002, 22:22
Uhm (http://ps2media.ign.com/media/previews2/image/mgs2/mgs2final_17.jpg)
what I see, is a very blurry, drab looking game, that uses about 16 colors(all of which appear to be a shade of grey), Blurry Low res textures wrapped around decent geometry, pretty typical of the PS2, Splinter Cell destroys it in the looks department... and Tom Clancy tries to not write his stories too soon after eating those types of mushrooms.
The topic wasn't about gameplay graphics, it was about the cinematics.
PC-Engine
04-Dec-2002, 22:28
That pic looks barely better than MGS1 on DC :o
edit: make that Bleemcast :)
Tagrineth
04-Dec-2002, 22:39
Uhm (http://ps2media.ign.com/media/previews2/image/mgs2/mgs2final_17.jpg)
what I see, is a very blurry, drab looking game, that uses about 16 colors(all of which appear to be a shade of grey), Blurry Low res textures wrapped around decent geometry, pretty typical of the PS2, Splinter Cell destroys it in the looks department... and Tom Clancy tries to not write his stories too soon after eating those types of mushrooms.
You forgot the shades of green too :P
marconelly!
04-Dec-2002, 22:43
Considering how long the game was in development it IS significant IMO. To you I'm exaggerating, to me you're downplaying...
I've never seen you talking like that about graphics problems in Shenmue, though.
what I see, is a very blurry, drab looking game, that uses about 16 colors(all of which appear to be a shade of grey),
Just play the game. Suffice to say there IS a reason why people praise it's visuals to this day. I just can't bother explaining anymore. (and before you jump on it, that reason is not blind fanboyism or anything like that)
PC-Engine
04-Dec-2002, 22:56
I've never seen you talking like that about graphics problems in Shenmue, though.
DC is a less powerful system and released 18 months before PS2 and also cheaper. Also IIRC Shenmue didn't use 16 colors. Additionally it had boatloads of textures, NPCs, realtime living town, realtime weather, realtime shadowing casting surrounding objects, complete feature rich fighting engine, minigames engine, huge draw distances. Sure it had pixel shimmering in the distance like GT3, but it didn't have the grainy popping phenomenon that GT3 also had.
Oh yeah and Shenmue ran in progressive mode too. :wink:
Nod Marc, its an art style.
edit: GOD, you had to say *henmue didnt you? Time to write this tread off...
marconelly!
04-Dec-2002, 22:59
See, PCEngine, that's what you do. You defend, find excuses and list positives for the game and it's system just because it's your favorite - yet nitpick and generally do exactly the opposite if it's not.
PC-Engine
04-Dec-2002, 23:06
See, PCEngine, that's what you do. You defend, find excuses and list positives for the game and it's system just because it's your favorite - yet nitpick and generally do exactly the opposite if it's not.
Actually what I usually do is take everything into consideration then conclude whether or not it's a major achievement. :)
It's all opinion anyway right?
Tagrineth
04-Dec-2002, 23:07
Just play the game. Suffice to say there IS a reason why people praise it's visuals to this day. I just can't bother explaining anymore. (and before you jump on it, that reason is not blind fanboyism or anything like that)
I'd like to comment that I'm rabidly anti-PS2 :lol: for the most part, and I have to say that the first time I saw MGS2's cinematics in action, Jason practically had to slap me back to reality.
Added: By the way, does anyone know of any links to MPEG recordings of some of them? I WANT.
Sure it had pixel shimmering in the distance like GT3, but it didn't have the grainy popping phenomenon that GT3 also had.
Oh yeah and Shenmue ran in progressive mode too. :wink:
character popping is also a feature of Shenmue.
PC-Engine
04-Dec-2002, 23:11
I totally agree. The cinematography of the cutscene is great as well as the particle effects. If we narrowed it down to that then yeah it's great. :D
However IMO the cutscenes in Shenmue is also great :wink:
PC-Engine
04-Dec-2002, 23:16
The NPCs faded in/out. It wasn't popping though considering it ran on old cheaper hardware and all the realtime NPCs had their own mini lives, it was a major achievement :wink:
It only happend when there were a lot of NPCs on the screen, the popping in GT3 happened 24/7.
marconelly!
04-Dec-2002, 23:35
Added: By the way, does anyone know of any links to MPEG recordings of some of them? I WANT.
The easiest thing to do would be to purchase a Document of Metal Gear Solid 2 ($20) It contains all the cut scenes where you can pause, manually forward, have a complete control over the camera for every cut scene in MGS2. That disc also contains tons of other stuff and the price is more than justified (IMO) if you like technical aspects of the game.[/quote]
Tagrineth
05-Dec-2002, 00:03
Added: By the way, does anyone know of any links to MPEG recordings of some of them? I WANT.
The easiest thing to do would be to purchase a Document of Metal Gear Solid 2 ($20) It contains all the cut scenes where you can pause, manually forward, have a complete control over the camera for every cut scene in MGS2. That disc also contains tons of other stuff and the price is more than justified (IMO) if you like technical aspects of the game.[/quote]
yeah, but, see, is it for PS2? I don't have one, else I'd actually OWN MGS2 myself... :lol:
marconelly!
05-Dec-2002, 00:51
Yeah, it's for PS2 :\
randycat99
05-Dec-2002, 06:01
Wow, where do you get a hold of this disc?
marconelly!
05-Dec-2002, 06:18
Randy, EB are about the only stores I know that have it. You can also order it from EBWorld.com
http://www.ebgames.com/ebx/categories/products/product.asp?pf_id=228917
You can see a review here:
http://ps2.ign.com/articles/372/372166p1.html
Just to get an idea of the contents.
randycat99
05-Dec-2002, 06:27
OK, thanks! I've always been curious about the game's graphics, but never had the patience to play it through as a game to see everything.
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