View Full Version : XB360's media capabilities a little misrepresented?
Shifty Geezer
08-Nov-2005, 11:31
It's been said XB360 connects directly to iPod for playing music, and this was also shown on the Money Programme special. However what MS had failed to tell us was it won't play iTunes DRM'd music, so if you're iPod is populated by music you've bought over iTunes, that music can't be used.
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=12801
...but what's less well-known is that the next-generation console will be unable to play songs purchased from Apple's iTunes Music Store.
That's according to Microsoft's (http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=12801#) Jeff Henshaw, who told CNET News.com that because of the digital-rights-management (DRM) software (http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=12801#) in iPod, playback of those tracks was not possible.
Henshaw said Microsoft had tried to forge a partnership with Apple on the issue, but that Apple had rejected the idea.
During the same interview, Henshaw also declined to comment on whether Microsoft has had to engage in any reverse-engineering to achieve iPod compatibility.
BlueTsunami
08-Nov-2005, 11:32
Apple totally kicked MS in the nutz :lol:
london-boy
08-Nov-2005, 11:38
OUCH!!!
Will the X360 eventually open up to ANY kind of MP3 player? That would be neat. Lots of people have iPods but lots of people also have other MP3 players.
Not that i'd use such a feature, i plug my HD5 directly to my Hi-Fi...
robofunk
08-Nov-2005, 11:43
Never once have they said it could play DRMed iTunes music. People will complain and forumers in the know will point them in the right direction for deDRMing the music.
Guden Oden
08-Nov-2005, 11:44
Don't all modern MP3 players simply present their contents as a USB storage device when hooked up to a computer (including next-gen games console with USB ports)? Therefore there'd be no need for specific iPod (or PSP) support built-in, other than merely for marketing purposes.
BlueTsunami
08-Nov-2005, 11:44
right direction for deDRMing the music.
:o
;)
Is that illegal?
robofunk
08-Nov-2005, 11:45
Don't all modern MP3 players simply present their contents as a USB storage device when hooked up to a computer (including next-gen games console with USB ports)? Therefore there'd be no need for specific iPod (or PSP) support built-in, other than merely for marketing purposes.
The iPod keeps it's music in a mess of folders.
scooby_dooby
08-Nov-2005, 11:46
This is OLD news. Apple's fault not MS.
robofunk
08-Nov-2005, 11:48
Sony is going to have the same problem with DRMed .WMAs.
BlueTsunami
08-Nov-2005, 11:53
Sony is going to have the same problem with DRMed .WMAs.
Thats why we must break away from proprietary codecs like that (would it even be called proprietary?). DRMed anything is bad.
london-boy
08-Nov-2005, 11:56
Sony is going to have the same problem with DRMed .WMAs.
Pretty sure they're fully supported these days. Kind of a last-week news on the AVforums, but i'm not confident about the details.
drpepper
08-Nov-2005, 12:33
This is to no surprise, Apple has been very stingy with FairPlay and I don't think the 360 is part of their equation.
And it's not the codec that's closed but the DRM.
I wouldn't be surprised if Apple provided firmware to even block the iPod connectivity. Apple wants people to either connect their Pods to stereos directly, using lin out, or use Airport express.
Shifty Geezer
08-Nov-2005, 12:47
Will the X360 eventually open up to ANY kind of MP3 player? That would be neat. Lots of people have iPods but lots of people also have other MP3 players.That should be fine. I dunno what XB360 looks for but I'm guessing it just searches for .mp3s or other formats. If you plug a USB HDD into it witha chock load of .mp3s it ought to be found I'd have thought, same as devices are found and accessed on Windows PCs.
london-boy
08-Nov-2005, 12:53
That should be fine. I dunno what XB360 looks for but I'm guessing it just searches for .mp3s or other formats. If you plug a USB HDD into it witha chock load of .mp3s it ought to be found I'd have thought, same as devices are found and accessed on Windows PCs.
Well it largely depends on what MP3 player it is. If i plug my MP3 player to my PC, it won't play songs like that. It will play songs to a hi-fi - and very well i might add - but you can't play MP3s from the player through the PC (and i'm not sure why you would anyway, all my music collection is on my PC and on my MP3 player...)
expletive
08-Nov-2005, 13:11
That should be fine. I dunno what XB360 looks for but I'm guessing it just searches for .mp3s or other formats. If you plug a USB HDD into it witha chock load of .mp3s it ought to be found I'd have thought, same as devices are found and accessed on Windows PCs.
I would think that at LEAST the dvices which carry the "plays for sure" logo would work but probably all the devices. Only trick is how are they configuring playlists in these demos we're seeing. Is a playlist a universal file type that will also be searched for by the 360?
I think all this was fairly predictable. And also shows you that iTunes music store is even worse value for money than you first thought, you bought it but apple wont let you play it. How kind of them.
On a slightly different angle, what the situation with USB harddrives and divx movies. I havent got xp medi acente and was just wondering if this was an option. Buy a big ass usb2 drive and plug that in to watch movies. Is the usb thing only gonna support mp3 and wma?
Being able to plug in extra usb 2 harddrive would be pretty damn useful.
phil
Guden Oden
08-Nov-2005, 13:38
Apple's fault not MS.
How can it be Apple's fault? It's no more Apple's fault you can't play itunes-DRM'd music through the x360 than it's Ford's fault their distributor caps don't fit on Honda engines. (See! The old car analogy owns everything else. :D)
Apple made their choice not to open up the DRM. Calling it their "fault" is just lame f-boy nonsense.
Who in there right mind pays for MP3's? I can stick a CD in laptop and rip it at CD quality in about 5 minutes, don't you all have friends with like 2000 CD a piece?
Only lamer yupie tools(or just uninformed consumers) own Ipod's there a fashion statement, theres better products out there with more features for less $$$.
Until he Ipod can play WMA and has recordable FM radio other flash players get my money.
How can it be Apple's fault? It's no more Apple's fault you can't play itunes-DRM'd music through the x360 than it's Ford's fault their distributor caps don't fit on Honda engines. (See! The old car analogy owns everything else. :D)
Apple made their choice not to open up the DRM. Calling it their "fault" is just lame f-boy nonsense.
I'm sorry who's fault is it then ?
Ms said they asked if they can use it and apple said no and that they tried to make a deal and apple said no .
SO who's fault is it really ? Is it ms's fault for trying to get it to play ? Because apparently its not apples fault for saying no ?
expletive
08-Nov-2005, 13:50
I'm sorry who's fault is it then ?
Ms said they asked if they can use it and apple said no and that they tried to make a deal and apple said no .
SO who's fault is it really ? Is it ms's fault for trying to get it to play ? Because apparently its not apples fault for saying no ?
Agreed. I know the end result is for MS to sell consoles, not charity, but Apple's stance on this appears, to me at least, anti-consumer.
Apples decision to not open DRM to be used on the 360 is exactly what makes it apple's "fault". They have the right to do what they want with their products when they have the choice, as MS has done for years, but in this case it seems Apple is making the consumer suffer as a by-product of them screwing MS.
On a slightly different angle, what the situation with USB harddrives and divx movies. I havent got xp medi acente and was just wondering if this was an option. Buy a big ass usb2 drive and plug that in to watch movies. Is the usb thing only gonna support mp3 and wma?
Even with media center, it doesn't support divx files. Not sure if it will let you play supported formats from usb though.
This is totally unrelated, but does anyone know if with Vista what we now know as Media Center will be folded in? Or will Vista Media Center edition be one of the twenty flavors of Vista? Obviously I'm just wondering if 360 'extender' capability will flourish or not in the Vista era.
scooby_dooby
08-Nov-2005, 15:58
This is totally unrelated, but does anyone know if with Vista what we now know as Media Center will be folded in? Or will Vista Media Center edition be one of the twenty flavors of Vista? Obviously I'm just wondering if 360 'extender' capability will flourish or not in the Vista era.
To confirm this, Vista will incorporate all the Xtender features contained in the current MCE.
In addition Vista will have it's own version of MCE called Diamond(??), but to unlock the Xtender functionality for X360 all you require is regular vista.
btw - Diamond sounds like a beast, minimum 2GB of ram recommended
scooby_dooby
08-Nov-2005, 16:00
How can it be Apple's fault? It's no more Apple's fault you can't play itunes-DRM'd music through the x360 than it's Ford's fault their distributor caps don't fit on Honda engines. (See! The old car analogy owns everything else. :D)
Apple made their choice not to open up the DRM. Calling it their "fault" is just lame f-boy nonsense.
Yes apple made the CHOICE, good observation.
MS didn't CHOOSE not to support iTunes, Apple choose to be dicks about it, their fault, how can you blame MS?
To confirm this, Vista will incorporate all the Xtender features contained in the current MCE.
In addition Vista will have it's own version of MCE called Diamond(??), but to unlock the Xtender functionality for X360 all you require is regular vista.
btw - Diamond sounds like a beast, minimum 2GB of ram recommended
Cool, thanks for the heads up Scooby!
therealskywolf
08-Nov-2005, 17:40
If i was MS i would go like - "Not even if we make a deal? Ok, from now on ITUNES doens't work on XP, F you."
NEws ---> Ipod sales drop 30%, Competition rising!
lol
Alpha_Spartan
08-Nov-2005, 17:44
It's been said XB360 connects directly to iPod for playing music, and this was also shown on the Money Programme special. However what MS had failed to tell us was it won't play iTunes DRM'd music, so if you're iPod is populated by music you've bought over iTunes, that music can't be used.
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=12801
MS didn't fail to tell us anything. It's common knowledge on the net that Xbox 360 won't play iTunes.
However, that's all a moot point since I use JHymn to rip my iTunes to my HDD so that I can stream my music to my Xbox 360.
Guden Oden
08-Nov-2005, 18:48
MS didn't CHOOSE not to support iTunes, Apple choose to be dicks about it
If it's any comfort to you, Apple's being dicks about it to everyone. They sued that company whatsitsname that reverse-engineered the DRM for example. They understandably want to keep their toy to themselves, since it brings them a lot of money. Helping MS sell their console by allowing itunes compatibility is not in their interest. So therefore they choose to be dicks about it. Nothing new here...
how can you blame MS?
What makes you think I do that:?: Crazy! This is just more f-boy nonsense. For the record, I wouldn't care either way if x360 supports itunes or not because I'd never in a gogolplex years buy a single feckin track from apple, or anywhere else that sells music not only using lossy compression but also packed full of DRM for that matter.
Powderkeg
08-Nov-2005, 18:52
What makes you think I do that:?: Crazy! This is just more f-boy nonsense.
MS xbox 360 and Apple's iPod are not fully compatible.
Someone is at fault for making that decision. You said it wasn't Apple. By process of elimination, who does that leave left?
MS xbox 360 and Apple's iPod are not fully compatible.
Someone is at fault for making that decision. You said it wasn't Apple. By process of elimination, who does that leave left?
The consumer for thinking it should work? The consumer for buying into a proprietary solution and then discovering the extent of that nature?
I still blame Apple from a technological point of view, but not necessarily from a business sense. Their bread and butter is the end-to-end closed environment...
.Sis
btw - Diamond sounds like a beast, minimum 2GB of ram recommendedI don't believe this is accurate. Where are you hearing this?
.Sis
silhouette
08-Nov-2005, 19:36
What is the big deal about this? I really do not understand why someone wants to hook an mp3 player to xb360 and listen music from it.
I mean Xb360 would usually already be connected to a reciever, so why would you want to connect an mp3 player to the recevier through xb360? You can connect it directly. Of course, if the xb360 is connected only to TV and you want to listen music on your TV, that is a different story.
I think the more important thing is whether xb360 can stream and play music in mp4 format (not DRMed) from your PC (WinXP) or not. Having this capability is actually more interesting for most of the people, as this is the default format I-tunes uses when you rip your CDs to your PC.
Guden Oden
08-Nov-2005, 19:53
Someone is at fault for making that decision. You said it wasn't Apple.
You people are unbelievable, you and JvD both... That I said it wasn't apple's fault doesn't mean it's MS's. Jesus. They CHOSE to not open their DRM, fault or blame isn't even a factor here.
By process of elimination, who does that leave left?
Broken logic.
Don't all modern MP3 players simply present their contents as a USB storage device when hooked up to a computer (including next-gen games console with USB ports)? Therefore there'd be no need for specific iPod (or PSP) support built-in, other than merely for marketing purposes.
Nope...
Most portable audio players (incl. some portable media/video player devices), so the ones supporting WMA and Windows Media DRM, can only sync'ed via a new protocol called MTP. This is not the same as USB mass storage. It's a new protocol, over USB.
I can't say too much due to NDAs etc, but as a hint Microsoft has another DRM system called Windows Media DRM for networked devices. In the original context content was streamed from a (most likely) PC over a network to a playback device. In principle you can do the same over USB. Here comes the Xbox360...
This has to do with how content is DRM protected. Generally speaking it's bound to the portable player, so can't leave the device.
scooby_dooby
08-Nov-2005, 19:59
You people are unbelievable, you and JvD both... That I said it wasn't apple's fault doesn't mean it's MS's. Jesus. They CHOSE to not open their DRM, fault or blame isn't even a factor here.
They chose to be stubborn and uncooperative, to the detriment of they legally paying customers. It's Apple's fault this is the case because they could've easily allowed this to happen, and MS did their best to try and convince them.
If I had paid hundreds of dollars for an IPOD, and paid for all my songs legally (meaning they're my property) I would be pissed off that I wasn't able to playback on a X360 when all normal MP3's players can, as well as people with IPOD's containing pirated/ripped Audio tracks.
It's like Apple is punishing it's users for buying legal music, good show!
If i was MS i would go like - "Not even if we make a deal? Ok, from now on ITUNES doens't work on XP, F you."
NEws ---> Ipod sales drop 30%, Competition rising!
lol
Hey, you are on to something.. :twisted:
I'm with Guden here, some people here are truly unbelievable. To suggest a logical business decision requires someone to be at fault smells to me like someone here is trying to cover up the fanboy-nonsense that slipped out earlier.
Anyway, this to me isn't a fricking deal. Anyone wanting to listen to mp3s on the Xbox through the TV is just looking for excuses to put some blame onto someone. Boohooo Apple are to blame!!! They're anti consumer!! Boohooo
expletive
08-Nov-2005, 20:43
I'm with Guden here, some people here are truly unbelievable. To suggest a logical business decision requires someone to be at fault smells to me like someone here is trying to cover up the fanboy-nonsense that slipped out earlier.
Anyway, this to me isn't a fricking deal. Anyone wanting to listen to mp3s on the Xbox through the TV is just looking for excuses to put some blame onto someone. Boohooo Apple are to blame!!! They're anti consumer!! Boohooo
If MS were to somehow prevent iTunes from working on XP as a 'logical business decision' wouldnt THAT incompatibility be THEIR fault? Who cares if its Apples fault anyway? MS wants it to work, Apple doesnt. Does it get any clearer than that? I dont begrudge them their right to do that, god knows MS has done similar things in the past but this time its Apple standing in the way of this functionality. I dont have an ipod so i personally dont care but i can see how people who do own one would since a few of the demos showed being able to stream a custom soundtrack off an iPod. No biggie though, everyone will get over it.
Alpha_Spartan
08-Nov-2005, 20:50
The iTunes thing is moot. There are ways around it. Just google "JHymn". I use this to rip all my iTunes albums into regular MP3 unprotected format and share it via WMC.
Where there's a will, there's a way.
Bobbler
08-Nov-2005, 21:08
I'm going to have to go with Guden here as well. This isn't even a matter of "fault". It is silly to assume a company will open their standard to help a competing companies product out (although not competing in this space). Nobody should have assumed it would work in the first place. A choice by Apple, which is really the only logical choice they could have made, does not mean they are somehow guilty of denying users something they were gauranteed to begin with. When I got an iPod I expected to be able to play music on my iPod, and not on a console that isn't even out yet, which has no relation to the company that the iPod was made at.
Fault implies that they did something wrong. What gave anyone the idea that the right answer was to allow MS to play Apple's DRM (which is what saying Apple is at "fault" means)? Its like iTunes playing Sony's Connect DRM music or Connect playing iTunes DRM music -- as nice as it would be to have one common ground, thats not the world we live in and we can't just expect companies to throw away their goals as a company to help out another company (with often conflicting sets of goals). Neither company did anything wrong here. It is the way business works -- both made choices in their best interest (the arguement that it being able to play music on an Xbox360 is somehow in the best interest of consumers is moot -- the best interest of a few customers who would actually do it, but is that worth all the costs involved?); MS did what they could to provide a feature that might interest someone at very little cost to them, and Apple made a choice not to support MS in their endeavour to make the Xbox2 have more bullet points on their box (no surprise -- it is infact their DRM -- if you really wanted to you could get around it by burning them to cd and then ripping from the cd to mp3, worst case). Additionally, whos to say that MS's offer to Apple was very compelling to begin with -- how can we be sure that it was Apple who turned down the offer of their dreams? Chances are Apple didn't see any real benefit to them, because the feature will likely go unused by 99% of the people out there and opening up a standard/licensing it out opens up a huge can of worms. Who is this feature benefiting that didn't already have the ability to do something similar and just as easily? And what percentage of those people would the ability to play DRM music affect (I know several people with iPods and no DRM music)?
The only one at fault here is a user expecting to actually do something as silly as play DRM music on another device outside of what it was made to play on.
This really isn't such a big deal, but at the heart of this is a major problem with a lot of industries and consumers -- people expecting things they shouldn't logically be expecting. Dare I say, most angry/unsatisfied customers have their roots in this situation.
expletive
08-Nov-2005, 22:16
Agree with everything you said there but what is this forum for if not for us to determine the moral compass of the entire CE and Digital media industry?
:D
mckmas8808
08-Nov-2005, 22:43
I'm sorry who's fault is it then ?
Ms said they asked if they can use it and apple said no and that they tried to make a deal and apple said no .
SO who's fault is it really ? Is it ms's fault for trying to get it to play ? Because apparently its not apples fault for saying no ?
Its MS's fault for promoting it before the deal was done.
valioso
08-Nov-2005, 22:43
Its MS's fault for promoting it before the deal was done.
they never said you could play the itunes songs.. they said you can play mp3's from your ipod on your 360.. not the propietary format..
mckmas8808
08-Nov-2005, 22:50
they never said you could play the itunes songs.. they said you can play mp3's from your ipod on your 360.. not the propietary format..
Ahhh good point. Still they tricked the dumber nonlistening people like me.:sad:
Great job MS. It's good hype if you ask me.
Nite_Hawk
08-Nov-2005, 23:04
It's kind of funny seeing people here get mad at apple for not releasing iTunes to MS. It's primarily funny, because it reminds me of myself when I was upset that blizzard wouldn't make a DiabloII or World of Warcraft client for linux. It's the same deal. If Apple thought it made financial sense for them to open up iTunes to MS they would. Yes it sucks, but unfortunately it is a fact of life.
If you want to blame anyone, blame Microsoft for being incapable of making an offer that apple couldn't refuse.
Nite_Hawk
Shifty Geezer
08-Nov-2005, 23:19
Anyway, this to me isn't a fricking deal. Anyone wanting to listen to mp3s on the Xbox through the TV is just looking for excuses to put some blame onto someone. Boohooo Apple are to blame!!! They're anti consumer!! Boohooothe main idea, which is one I've never agreed with but seems quite popular with XB, is to have custom soundtracks during games. Rather than listening to the supplied music you can play the musics you like, straight off your portable music player. Only not if that music was bought over iTunes.
Master-Mold
08-Nov-2005, 23:29
Color me confused :???:
So let me get this straight: Only songs you legally purchased from the Apple Store (i-tunes) cannot be played when hooked up to the X360?
If that is the case I couldn't care less. I have an Ipod Video but I have never bought a single song from Apple and refuse to. All the CD rips of mine that are on my Ipod video will work correct? Just because you import your MP3s into I-Tunes they dont get any DRM protection added correct?
If this is the case than who cares unless you have like thousands of purchased songs from Apple and if you do....well............you deserve pain.:wink:
scooby_dooby
08-Nov-2005, 23:40
the main idea, which is one I've never agreed with but seems quite popular with XB, is to have custom soundtracks during games. Rather than listening to the supplied music you can play the musics you like, straight off your portable music player. Only not if that music was bought over iTunes.
Once you've played your favourtie racer, or shoot-em-up with your favourite music in the background, it becomes a must have, what an awesome feature. Forza implented i t the best, in the menu's and all throughout the game you have your tracks playing and they continue between screenloads, very cool feature that is totally underrated by people who've never tried it...
Master-Mold
08-Nov-2005, 23:43
Once you've played your favourtie racer, or shoot-em-up with your favourite music in the background, it becomes a must have, what an awesome feature. Forza implented i t the best, in the menu's and all throughout the game you have your tracks playing and they continue between screenloads, very cool feature that is totally underrated by people who've never tried it...
I agree.
Driving while listening to Red Barchetta (Rush), Panama (Van Halen), Wherever I May Roam (Metallica), Thunderkiss 65' (White Zombie), etc. is simply priceless.:grin:
Now I am super stoked because any RPGs like Oblivion are going to rule listening to MP3s of Conan the Barbarian themes and NFL Films soundtracks. Dont laugh, NFL Films soundtracks sound very Conan-ish and are heavily orchestrated. Its a great CD!!!
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/wma-pop-up/-/B00000DGUH001018/102-7193760-6460147 KILLER
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/wma-pop-up/-/B00000DGUH001012/102-7193760-6460147
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/wma-pop-up/-/B00000DGUH001008/102-7193760-6460147
Here's a better article on the Xbox 360 and iPod issue...
http://news.com.com/Xbox+360+and+iPod+interoperability+Sort+of/2100-1041_3-5931847.html
Had Microsoft ponied up for the "Made for iPod" royalties program that Apple is offering, then Microsoft could have been able to say that the Xbox 360 could play all of the music on the iPod(DRM and MP3). Unfortunately, it would have cost Microsoft a 10% royalty off the wholesale price of the Xbox 360. No wonder Microsoft didn't play.
Personnally I could care less, I just want the ability to play any MP3 or WMA files I might have. If Microsoft can get around Apple's license program by at least providing some music support, then more power to them and consumers.
Tommy McClain
PARANOiA
09-Nov-2005, 00:51
Had Microsoft ponied up for the "Made for iPod" royalties program that Apple is offering, then Microsoft could have been able to say that the Xbox 360 could play all of the music on the iPod(DRM and MP3). Unfortunately, it would have cost Microsoft a 10% royalty off the wholesale price of the Xbox 360. No wonder Microsoft didn't play.
:shock: Thanks for the link.
See, here's why DRM really stinks. All this crap about reducing piracy. Do you think Apple is charging 10% of X360 royalties to protect piracy? Or maybe they trying to fuck the consumer. What do you think?
While some may justify this as Apple's business model, ask yourself, what exactly are they losing by letting X360 play songs purchased off Itunes? Nothing except more money.
So who's looking forward to Vista? :wink:
expletive
09-Nov-2005, 02:36
Color me confused :???:
So let me get this straight: Only songs you legally purchased from the Apple Store (i-tunes) cannot be played when hooked up to the X360?
:wink:
Well put!
What about songs you get off the napster service and the other music services? Are those DRM'd? Will they also not play?
Inane_Dork
09-Nov-2005, 03:38
See, here's why DRM really stinks. All this crap about reducing piracy. Do you think Apple is charging 10% of X360 royalties to protect piracy? Or maybe they trying to fuck the consumer. What do you think?The consumer? Nah. They're trying to fuck MS. They really don't care if MS turns around and screws their consumers.
drpepper
09-Nov-2005, 03:46
If i was MS i would go like - "Not even if we make a deal? Ok, from now on ITUNES doens't work on XP, F you."
NEws ---> Ipod sales drop 30%, Competition rising!
lol
News next day----> anti-trust suit against Microsoft. It's java all over again! :twisted:
drpepper
09-Nov-2005, 03:47
Well put!
What about songs you get off the napster service and the other music services? Are those DRM'd? Will they also not play?
They will play, I believe they are DRM'd with Janus, Microsoft's other proprietary DRM.
drpepper
09-Nov-2005, 03:52
:shock: Thanks for the link.
See, here's why DRM really stinks. All this crap about reducing piracy. Do you think Apple is charging 10% of X360 royalties to protect piracy? Or maybe they trying to fuck the consumer. What do you think?
While some may justify this as Apple's business model, ask yourself, what exactly are they losing by letting X360 play songs purchased off Itunes? Nothing except more money.
So who's looking forward to Vista? :wink:
Apple is charging the royalties only for accessories of the iPod. Microsoft is doing the EXACT SAME THING wrt Xbox 360 accesories. They have to be stamped for approval to be a360 accesory and plus companies have to pay a royalty to Microsoft. I don't have a link, but I rmemeber reading a bunch of articles on the subject. So this has been done before, it's just ironic that MS is on the other end of the stick.
Streaming music from the iPod won't increase sales of iPods or iTMS since the console isn't exclusive to ipod. So there's no real incentive for Apple to open up FairPlay to MS.
MS has done this a number of times, trying to get Apple to open FairPlay or by stating in the media that Apple isn't playing fair with their DRM. I'm not surprised that this issue is being brought up again.
Edit: sorry for the triple post, I just didn't want my post to be too big, plus fumbling on a track pad copying and pasting is just annoying.
PARANOiA
09-Nov-2005, 03:58
Apple is charging the royalties only for accessories of the iPod. Microsoft is doing the EXACT SAME THING wrt Xbox 360 accesories. They have to be stamped for approval to be a360 accesory and plus companies have to pay a royalty to Microsoft. I don't have a link, but I rmemeber reading a bunch of articles on the subject. So this has been done before, it's just ironic that MS is on the other end of the stick.
I'm not trying to turn this into a MS vs Apple affair. My point was in relation to DRM wearing a hat of "anti-piracy" but used to shaft the legally purchasing consumer out of a function.
You know who loses here? Folks that bought songs on Itunes, since they can't listen to those songs in-game now.
What's also ironic is people downloading the songs illegally can use them on the Xbox360. Nice work to encourage piracy, Apple :wink:
(FWIW I agree MS would love to be able to shaft the customer as much for pure hard cash, and would do so in an instant if it had the ability.)
drpepper
09-Nov-2005, 04:05
I'm not trying to turn this into a MS vs Apple affair. My point was in relation to DRM wearing a hat of "anti-piracy" but used to shaft the legally purchasing consumer out of a function.
You know who loses here? Folks that bought songs on Itunes, since they can't listen to those songs in-game now.
What's also ironic is people downloading the songs illegally can use them on the Xbox360. Nice work to encourage piracy, Apple :wink:
(FWIW I agree MS would love to be able to shaft the customer as much for pure hard cash, and would do so in an instant if it had the ability.)
Ok, I see your point. DRM is evil, but as long as the publishers want them the content providers must deliver. Really, the blame goes squarely to the RIAA for forcing Apple to use DRM to prevent user to connect the iPod to the 360. there now everyone is happy, we found someone to blame, as is the American way.
MoeStooge
09-Nov-2005, 04:34
the main idea, which is one I've never agreed with but seems quite popular with XB, is to have custom soundtracks during games. Rather than listening to the supplied music you can play the musics you like, straight off your portable music player. Only not if that music was bought over iTunes.
Out of curiousity, why don't you like the ability to have custom soundtracks? That seems like a 'no lose' situation to me. If you want to listen the the supplied soundtrack you can, if you don't want to you can as well.
Typically, the best liked, best reviewed games come with decent soundtracks, but every now and then I play a game with horrible music. The last thing I want to listen to while playing a game is some cheezy Japanese butt rocker ballad. Give me Katamari Damacy or Halo music or give me custom soundtracks.
Plus, as an added bonus I can use a porno soundtrack and breathe new life into a game I've already played to death:)
scooby_dooby
09-Nov-2005, 04:45
Streaming music from the iPod won't increase sales of iPods or iTMS since the console isn't exclusive to ipod. So there's no real incentive for Apple to open up FairPlay to MS.
Except that it does put IPOD at a competetive disadvantage if competitors decide to play nice with the 360.
Also, I think they owe it to their cystomers who payed fair and square, why would they not allow streaming? It's ridiculous IMO, way to reward your customers for playing by the rules.
crystalcube
09-Nov-2005, 05:03
Also, I think they owe it to their cystomers who payed fair and square, why would they not allow streaming? It's ridiculous IMO, way to reward your customers for playing by the rules.
Did Apple advertised that the music people are buying from iTunes store be streamable on devices that are not even available in market yet ?
If not then they are playing fair. People buy music from iTunes to play on iPod. Thats what it does. If any company wants to use iPod they pay Apple ...10% ..in this case that would be Microsoft.
Why dont you say that Microsoft be fair and pay Apple 10% and let the people buying Xbox360 be able to stream music from iPod.
The argument goes both ways ... actually ... DRM is going to be troublesome for consumers but saying one company should give up their DRM to favour your favourite company is bit unfair. Would Microsoft give up its DRM and let Apple play DRM WMA files on iPod for free ?
TrungGap
09-Nov-2005, 06:02
Is DRM at fault here? Really is it? Or is it greed?
I can see a lot of problem with DRM. But this isn't as if x360 is copying the files over to store. It's just providing an interface and providing a passthru to the TV/stereo system. It's like Apple is asking every speaks/headphones to pay royalty to them for allowing them to hook up to the ipod. How arrogant is that?
On the other hands, I can see why Apple want accessories manufacturers to pay a royalty to use the docking interface. Apple designed it. They should be able to charge a usage fee for it. But to ask for 10% is a little outrageous. So if a car manufacturers want a docking station for an ipod for their cars, they should pay Apple 10%?
Who is loosing out? Consumers for sure. If the ipod can easily interface with more devices, i would imagine that it would help ipod's sales. But by limiting the practicality use of the ipod, will only limit Apple's market. Let's put it in another way, does the fact that ipod's DRM music doesn't play on the x360 will prevent the sales x360 more or the ipod more? I'm not saying that this will not affect the buying decision of the consumers, but it's impact is so minor. While the rest of us will suffer.
Who is to benefit from this? PlayForSure devices (MS technology). Some people are willing to pay extra for enhanced experience (such as LIVE). Allowing them to play whatever songs they legally paid for on iTunes or Napster on other devices provide that ease of use. No more ripping the music yourself. No more worrying about legality (and feeling good that you purchased it as oppose to illegally downloading it).
The more walls you put up, the more resource people will be in tearing down the walls. The more doors you provide, the more people will learn how to use the doors instead of tearing down the walls.
robofunk
09-Nov-2005, 06:19
Steve Jobs is an asshat on the whole. I do think it's hypocritical that the Xbox 360 only interfaces with Windows Media Center PCs and only plays WMVs even then. Unless Microsoft opens up the video capabilities of the 360 then they are no different then Apple.
I would pay extra for MPEG4, Divx, H.264 support if it's all a matter of royalties and programming. Not to mention SMB support. Let me pay and download some kind of codec Microsoft, you would be god. I have a modded Xbox though so it's only a problem with HD content. Microsoft could never match the flexibility of open source when it comes to supporting all compression formats and all file formats though so maybe they are better off not trying.
mckmas8808
09-Nov-2005, 06:29
Except that it does put IPOD at a competetive disadvantage if competitors decide to play nice with the 360.
Also, I think they owe it to their cystomers who payed fair and square, why would they not allow streaming? It's ridiculous IMO, way to reward your customers for playing by the rules.
Apple gave MS a chance. MS is the ones that said NO!!! Apple said ok you want our DRM encoded music give us 10%. It was MS that said hell no. So should MS have rewarded their customers for buying a Xbox 360?
I like apples.
grapes too.
rabidrabbit
09-Nov-2005, 06:39
This could actually be more benefical to Microsoft while not hurting Apple that much.
Am I right that to be able to stream your iTunes music you'd then need a Media Center PC.
If so, that's only more software sales to MS, vs. paying something to Apple to be able to use their DRM in the xbox360.
Simple, the other option brings money to MS, while the other just takes money from MS.
The xbox360 is even marketed as just an extension to MCPC, not as a Media Centre itself.
Edit: So xbox360 with MCPC can only stream WMV's (not MP3's, DivX, OGG...????
If that's true, then why are people even questioning who's behind all this ? Should be pretty obvious then :D
Can someone else (perhaps sponsored by MS) provide an adaptor to play FairPlay songs on Xbox 360 by paying the 10% fee ?
It's just business. I don't know how to differentiate between greed and business in a neutral way at this moment. 8^)
rabidrabbit
09-Nov-2005, 07:16
I don't think it's a big deal at all.
You can just buy a cheap 1gig USB memory dongle and stream your non DRM music from there.
Just a minor inconvenience, nothing else.
Shifty Geezer
09-Nov-2005, 09:15
10% of XB360 is an absolute joke. It's not like iPod functionality is worth 10% of the consoles capabilities. Apple deserve to be smacked hard for that ridiculous notion (assuming it was a 10% they were asking, and private negotiations weren't looking at other reimbursments). Can you imagine if 10 different portable media player comanies all demanded 10% of XB360's value to include their functionality? :shock:
crystalcube
09-Nov-2005, 09:24
Can you imagine if 10 different portable media player comanies all demanded 10% of XB360's value to include their functionality? :shock:
huh ?
you do know that downloadable music is either Apple's DRM or Microsoft's DRM ( which Microsoft is probably already charging from those media player makers ;) )
I am not aware of any third scheme which is popular ...
It seems Microsoft possibly will be soon charging all those media player makers for "Xbox Compatible" thingy soon.
This is quite interesting thread after all :lol:
Shifty Geezer
09-Nov-2005, 09:31
Well that's just as wrong too. They should all be smacked hard. A writer can create a book, and they get 10% for actually spending months/years creating the product. Same witht he musicians who create the music. And on the flip side someone creates a DRM system that requires no upkeep and gets more money than the people actually doing the work. :evil:
Not that I like DRM, but FairPlay does require some upkeep because of the server check.
Writers do get royalty though.
Also I read from somewhere (forgot where) that at this stage of iTunes' business, they are looking for partners who can further their home penetration. So they are more keen to work with brand name hi-fi companies.
Really... if 10% of the console is too high, then a separate adapter selling for a fraction of the console price may work. In any case, I think MS probably wants to look at actual requests from users after launch to gauge whether it's worthwhile to bring in FairPlay.
They already have enough trouble recovering from their Xbox* investment. We should all be patient. And yes DRM sucks. 8^(
drpepper
09-Nov-2005, 13:01
Alright, alright. Here's a solution for you guys but involves sacrificing a Cd-R. Burn your DRM'd AAC files as an audio CD, then re-rip it as the highest quality MP3 to minimize compression artifacts. Voila, no more DRM and it canbe played from your iPod to the 360.
Really, this case is moot since this problem may only affect a small percentage of 360 owners.
mckmas8808
09-Nov-2005, 15:12
Alright, alright. Here's a solution for you guys but involves sacrificing a Cd-R. Burn your DRM'd AAC files as an audio CD, then re-rip it as the highest quality MP3 to minimize compression artifacts. Voila, no more DRM and it canbe played from your iPod to the 360.
Really, this case is moot since this problem may only affect a small percentage of 360 owners.
To me this issue has never been a true problem. It's just interesting. Alot of things lately have been interesting.
Not being able to stream music from my ipod over my Xbox 360 is BS, and anyone defending Apple on this is insane. I'm not asking to put the music on the Xbox 360, just simply let me plug my darn IPOD up to the Xbox 360 and use the speakers when I game. I wish I hadn't bought an IPOD now to be honest due to this.
Not being able to stream music from my ipod over my Xbox 360 is BS, and anyone defending Apple on this is insane. I'm not asking to put the music on the Xbox 360, just simply let me plug my darn IPOD up to the Xbox 360 and use the speakers when I game. I wish I hadn't bought an IPOD now to be honest due to this.
Just do what i do . I buy off napster and use the itunes just to put the data on my ipod . I keep it in mp3 form not in thier special format .
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