XB360 suicide software prices

[Shifty Geezer]

I was thinking of checking out the local Game store to see if there's any XB360 demo hardware in the Uk. The launch is a month off and they ought to be showing it here as they are US and Japan. Thought Id visit Game.co.uk to see if there's any news. There wasn't, but I did see the XB360's software prices - £45-50. £50 was for FCK and Prey, not what I thought list-topping titles. Compare that with the average current gen price of about £33-34 (nice to see Game are finally trying to compete with Play and the like) and that's a huge difference. It looks to me like those software prices are going to be too much for many people. Software tie ratio, and game profitability for MS, is surely going to take a hit.

[Diesel2]

That's getting a bit rich. That would be the equivalent of approx $110 AUD. If Sony follows suit, I think I'll be renting and Ebaying quite a lot next generation.

[dave_m123]

If you can try Play.com. 360 games are selling for £40 there. Still expensive I know but less than Game.

[Shifty Geezer]

I always buy from Play, any optical disk format. XB360 games are still £10 more there too. Assuming those extra prices are going to the devs and the license fees aren't going up, MS aren't getting any more money per game than they do for XB. Which means if less games sell (or are printed in repsonse to lower sales to be accurate) MS won't be taking as much game money from the first 20 million XB360 users as they do currently. That's ging to make becoming profitable even harder. I guess they're pinning all their hopes on either much much larger userbase or cuts cheap downloadable content? Maybe the idea is people buy less games but play them more and increase game life with paid-for addons?

Or the prices are just high to begin with as the user base isn't there to cover dev costs, and they know early adopters are willing to pay. What were prices like this gen? Did they start higher and come down to the £40 RRP mark?

[london-boy]

This gen, new games either released at £39.99 or £36.99. Some exceptions launched at lower prices. Still a lot of money nevertheless.

[lefizz]

Actually thats not true. A lot of xbox titles launched at £45 on the hi street, a fiver more than the PS2 price. This was changed later now. Considering that some N64 games were in the £60-70 price bracket these prices for the content you get might not be so bad. Also by the time the 360 is a mass market product and competeing against the PS3 i can see price droping to £35-40 as has happned in the gneration. The thing is for developers such as bizarre creations etc. developing a next gen title might get you loads of press but when there is an installed user base of zero they probably have to have higher prices to start with to try and re-coup the development cost.

[mrdarko]

what i would like to know is,what do sony and microsoft get in royalty payments per game?

for example,pro evo 5 costs £40 on both consoles but only £30 on pc.

is the £10 difference the royalty fee?

on top of this difference the pc version sells for £17.99 on play versus £30 on consoles!

now if it turns out next gen games are going up by ~£10 how do sony/ms expect to people
to keep up with these rises?

[lefizz]

This will be a laucnh thing only for sure. MS are in a position where they see that they have no gen gen direct competition. That is why the console id quite expensive and the games are quite expensive. When the thing starts rapping production and the cost of both games and hardware fall so will the price tag, maybe even before the ps3 launches.

[Shifty Geezer]

what i would like to know is,what do sony and microsoft get in royalty payments per game?

for example,pro evo 5 costs £40 on both consoles but only £30 on pc.

is the £10 difference the royalty fee?Sony and MS (and Nintendo if they ever get 3rd party support :p) get paid something like $5-10 per game disc printed. If a company prints 1,000,000 discs, they pay $5-10 million in fees even if they only sell 10,000 copies. That's where the risk comes with publishing, measuring demand, and in part why devs are dependant on publishers to front up the money to cover these costs. I think, from what's been said on this forum before, in store prices are up to a 100% markup on official game prices. Hence a £40 game costs the store £20.

[Phil]

Woah, not sure how that translates into the prices that I can expect overhere, but I can assure you that I am not willing to pay more for games that I already am (that being CHF 89 to CHF 99). If Microsoft indeed wants to sell them for more, that would roughly translate to over a hundred swiss francs over here per game. That's how much import games go for. No fricking way. And I don't consider myself a casual gamer. :???:

[Dr Evil]

Check this canadian site and see how much the games cost there (27-33£). I have a preorder on the X360 bundle there, which has following stuff included.

-Xbox 360 Premium System
-Wireless Controller
-Combination High-Definition Component and Standard A/V Cable
-20GB Hard Drive
-Ethernet Cable
-Headset
-Bonus Media Remote
-Xbox Live Silver
-Xbox Live Gold 30-Day Trial
-Extra Wireless Controller
-play & Charge Kit (for extra controller)
-Rechargeable Battery Pack (for included controller)

and it goes for 243£, not too bad





http://www.dvdboxoffice.com/

[lefizz]

Interesting but since the games will be regionally encoded and live is so crucial to the 360 dont you think that really that will be a pain. Even when mod chips come out you then like now wont be able to play on live. Plus you will need a 240/110 250watt tansformer.

All in all doesnt seem very attractive to me, ok it a good price but at what cost?

[mrdarko]

Sony and MS (and Nintendo if they ever get 3rd party support :p) get paid something like $5-10 per game disc printed. If a company prints 1,000,000 discs, they pay $5-10 million in fees even if they only sell 10,000 copies. That's where the risk comes with publishing, measuring demand, and in part why devs are dependant on publishers to front up the money to cover these costs. I think, from what's been said on this forum before, in store prices are up to a 100% markup on official game prices. Hence a £40 game costs the store £20.



looking on the bright side an 100% mark-up isn't as bad as my other hobby (hi-fi)

accessorys can command upto a 1000% mark-up:shock:

[Shifty Geezer]

Watch batteries. Sold over the counter for about $5. Bought by the store of the middle-man for £1. Bought from the battery company for 20p. Cost to produce each battery = pennies. :shock:

[Powderkeg]

Check 1st party game prices. I don't know about the UK, but in the US, 1st party games are still the same price as last-gen, but all 3rd party games ahve increased by $10 US.

And it's not going to be any different for the PS3 and Revolution. Most 3rd party publishers have switched to a permanent price increase of about 20% for next-generation games on all platforms.

[Dr Evil]

Interesting but since the games will be regionally encoded and live is so crucial to the 360 dont you think that really that will be a pain. Even when mod chips come out you then like now wont be able to play on live. Plus you will need a 240/110 250watt tansformer.

All in all doesnt seem very attractive to me, ok it a good price but at what cost?

Well I will buy games from Canada too, offcourse it's not so easy to get rid of them, but I will only buy games that I want hold on to. I don't see what's the problem with Live is?, it's not locked to certain regions if that's what you mean, Europeans can play against americans, and I can play against finnish guys if I want to, atleast on most games. Are you sure you need transformer? it has extrernal powersource like PStwo and PStwo's brick can take 110-240volts, all I had to do, was to get a new cable which costs about 1$. Now I'm not sure about X360's brick, but at the worst case I may have to ditch about 50e for transformer, or for european X360 brick which should work in all X360's

I can clearly understand that importing is not appealing to everyone, but I like the cheaper price (even after taxes) and the fact that many games comes out earlier in North-America. Both my Xbox and PS2 are US-model and I have been pretty happy with them.

edit: fixed about 1000 typos

[pc999]

If the prices will raise that may be bad for a lot of gamers, I am sure they will lost costumers that way, not get new ones.

[MrWibble]

Watch batteries. Sold over the counter for about $5. Bought by the store of the middle-man for £1. Bought from the battery company for 20p. Cost to produce each battery = pennies. :shock:

I had to buy a watch battery at the weekend and it only cost 99p...

But er... yeah, what you said. :)

[Powderkeg]

If the prices will raise that may be bad for a lot of gamers, I am sure they will lost costumers that way, not get new ones.

Maybe at first, but the new price structure will be something people eventually accept just like higher gas prices or $7 movie tickets.

[Branduil]

Maybe at first, but the new price structure will be something people eventually accept just like higher gas prices or $7 movie tickets.

I'll just never buy new games. I think part of the reason used games are so popular now is because even now they're overcharging for most games.

[Powderkeg]

I'll just never buy new games. I think part of the reason used games are so popular now is because even now they're overcharging for most games.

I can tell you now I have my list of requirements that have to be met before I'll drop $60+ down on a video game. I don't think the price will hurt overall sales, but I do think it will seperate the good from the bad more than ever. Bad games will flop harder than they ever have before, and people will stick to buying "proven" games.

And I imagine there will be an increase in rentals as well. Something I always suggest doing when considering buying a relatively unknown game. There have been a few games that I bought because of the rental, and many games I never bought because of the rental. In both cases the rental money was well spent IMO.

[lefizz]

Fair enough mate, if you are really into the whole culture of importing that fair enough. All I meant about live is that if a modchip comes out for the 360 allowing you for example to play u.k.games you wouldnt have to turn it off to use live as in the current generation. If you will buy all your software from canada it of course makes no difference but i personally get a buzz actually going to buy a game every once in a while.

No idea about the external switched mode power supplies they are now using. You are correct that they are often multi-voltage but not all are just check before you smoke your new system.

Best Regards,

Phil

[seismologist]

These new prices make PC gaming alot more attractive to me.

I just picked up COD2 for $35 where the same game on 360 will be $60.

[pc999]

Maybe at first, but the new price structure will be something people eventually accept just like higher gas prices or $7 movie tickets.

Many times is not if people accept or not, but if they even can accept (ie afford) or not.

I think that if the industry put the prices at half every people would buy 2-3X (some even more) the #of games (3games would be less the 2 games at the current price) I think it would be good for all (gamers how get more game, devs how will have more chances to get in the industry and the big boss how will get money from the third game), in a new thing like Rev it could be particular sussefull, but I dont have many hope on that.

[Shifty Geezer]

These new prices make PC gaming alot more attractive to me.

I just picked up COD2 for $35 where the same game on 360 will be $60.Though the hardware to run the games as well costs more, so overall it's no cheaper.

[Powderkeg]

Many times is not if people accept or not, but if they even can accept (ie afford) or not.

If someone can afford a $50 game, they can afford to spend $10 more. If they can't, then they have some serious financial problems they need to resolve before worrying about gaming.

[/quote]I think that if the industry put the prices at half every people would buy 2-3X (some even more) the #of games (3games would be less the 2 games at the current price) I think it would be good for all (gamers how get more game, devs how will have more chances to get in the industry and the big boss how will get money from the third game), in a new thing like Rev it could be particular sussefull, but I dont have many hope on that.[/QUOTE]

That's a nice theory, but first you have to realize that console developers pay $10-$15 per game in royalties, plus an additional $5-$10 per game goes to the retailer. If you started with a $50 game and cut the price in half, the developer and publisher would be virtually giving the game away for free, and I doubt very many developers would last long at that rate.

Even at $60 per copy the developer and publisher are splitting only about $40. If you assume a 50/50 split, the developer is only making $20 per copy.

Now there are claims that next-gen games can cost as much as $20 million to produce. Such a game would require the developer to sell 1 million copies at $60 per copy just to break even on development costs. Since very few games break the million copy sold mark, it is unlikely that developers or publishers would want to reduce the price, requiring even higher sales just to break even.

[seismologist]

I'm hoping on PS3 they'll be able to justify the high cost by packing the disks full of extra content.

[Powderkeg]

I'm hoping on PS3 they'll be able to justify the high cost by packing the disks full of extra content.


Be careful what you wish for. You may just find that extra content is nothing more than commercials and game trailers.

[seismologist]

Be careful what you wish for. You may just find that extra content is nothing more than commercials and game trailers.

I dont think people would want to pay a premium for a disk full of commercials.
I was thinking more along the lines of DVD extras.

[Powderkeg]

I dont think people would want to pay a premium for a disk full of commercials.
I was thinking more along the lines of DVD extras.

I wouldn't either, but people buy OXM magazine which is nothing but one big paperback commercial.

[jvd]

Devs have been testing the water for 60$ usd games all this gen .

People have shown they will buy 60$ collector editions of current gen games . They sell very well compared to the 50$ price points and now publishers and devs want to take advantage of this .


The break down used to normaly be 49.99$ and then a drop to 29.99$ or strait down to 19.99$

This gen we will see 59.99 then a drop to 39.99 . Customers will still be saving 20$ and sales will most likely be as good as the old 29.99$ price point. Then we will have 19.99 price point again .

This allows devs to make more money at 2 diffrent price points than last generation . and even put in the 69.99 collector edition on the map .

This way we can get even more crap released that sells less copies than last gen but still makes moeny and then the great gems that make crazy money.

[pc999]

That's a nice theory, but first you have to realize that console developers pay $10-$15 per game in royalties, plus an additional $5-$10 per game goes to the retailer. If you started with a $50 game and cut the price in half, the developer and publisher would be virtually giving the game away for free, and I doubt very many developers would last long at that rate.

Even at $60 per copy the developer and publisher are splitting only about $40. If you assume a 50/50 split, the developer is only making $20 per copy.

Now there are claims that next-gen games can cost as much as $20 million to produce. Such a game would require the developer to sell 1 million copies at $60 per copy just to break even on development costs. Since very few games break the million copy sold mark, it is unlikely that developers or publishers would want to reduce the price, requiring even higher sales just to break even.

Well if you put this way:
This gen we will see 59.99 then a drop to 39.99.
You can see that is bad, plus think in studants, kids and that kind how dont work (or if they work/work more too they would not have time to play) they save their mony or spend all of it in the games those still a big percentage which may not be able to buy/buy as many as they are used.

Plus I put industry so the (eg) "$10-$15 per game in royalties" if it as half, from my "theory", instead of pay 10/15 they would pay 2x5/2x7,5 do the same for the others things in the end gamers and dev (specialy and this is the biggest problem) but publishers too if they really get more 3 games buyer instead of 1 game old buyer. The problem is that publishers do not take risks and this would need a big agreement betwen all of them I think that only one of the 3 (MS,S,N) could do that but even then very hardly and those like the EA could make live even harder. But as I said and dont have much hope.

[MoeStooge]

With each successive generation of game technology (hardware & software) it seems like everything goes up but the fun factor.

[L233]

MS tried the price hike thing back when they first released the Xbox in EURO-land. The first games went into retail for €69... more expensive than anywhere else in the world. PS2 games were €59 and that price was already a 50% increase compared to the previous generation.

Xbox game prices came down fast as the console crashed and burned in continental Europe because of pricing (it retailed for €469 initially vs. $299 in the US IIRC). Deservedly so.

Looks like MS are now back again at their old shenanigans, i.e. the attempt to drive up game prices significantly. For this alone they deserve to fail.

[TrungGap]

Shuck, I'll have to refrain from buying multiple titles at luanch. I'll probably just pick up one title and finish it first before buying a second title...hopefully the price should be reduced by then. I would hate to send a message to them that they got me by the balls.

[Powderkeg]

Looks like MS are now back again at their old shenanigans, i.e. the attempt to drive up game prices significantly. For this alone they deserve to fail.


Well, good to see you completely failed to read the thread.

Sicne you missed it, I'll repeat it.

1st party games are unchanged in price. It's only the 3rd party games that have increased, and they will do the same on the PS3 and Revolution. It's an industry change, not one companies decision.

[winstonsmith1978]

The biggest problem with selling games at $60 is that less casual gamers will buy these games and people will be less willing to take a chance on an un-proven title.

So in other words, people will be less willing to buy innovative games like Ico, Shadow of the Colossus and Katamari Damaci and developers will be less willing to create such games because it will be to risky. Then, we will have more and more sequels and the gaming industry will turn into Hollywood.

Or some smart developers will chose to sell their games at $50 or less and everyone will buy those games forcing the market to follow. Microsoft will make a killing with their games at $50.

No way I’m paying $60, I’ll just buy old used games for 30 and less. Hopefully some of those games will actually be fresh and innovative.

[winstonsmith1978]

Sorry Powderkeg, i just repeated alot of what you said earlier.

The funny thing is, if people keep buying used games it might get these publishers and developers to wake up because non of that money makes it to their pocket.

[jvd]

Actually the amount of people that would hold off on buying games would be very small .


You will actually get more people buying at the 40$ price mark instead of the old 50$ as they would have to wait even longer to see a 20$ price point .

Remember its now 3 steps before it was only 2 steps . 50 then 20$

[Kanyamagufa]

Is this a completely new pricing model, or is it only supposed to take effect for the launch of the 360? Is there any reason to think this might be because of initial demand and that after the holiday season the prices will drop back to where they are now?

[scooby_dooby]

It's $10 CAD more up here, so it doesn't really matter. $70 instead of $60.

[wco81]

For the last 3 years or so, the Average Selling Prices or ASPs of games have been falling fast. So Wall Street is prodding these publishers to try to push the ASPs higher with the new generation, in order to boost revenues.

I don't think these publishers are sure that the higher prices will be accepted. I think discounting could happen fast if games don't sell well enough after a couple of weeks.

Game releases are slotted so that they have a limited shelf life before newer games come out and displace older games which aren't selling as well. It's kind of like the movies, where once sales slow down or don't do well to begin with, new movies take over the screens.

A lot of superstores and discount chains in the US are now using loss-leader strategy with games to get people into the stores, with $10-15 discounts on new games during the first week of release not atypical.

That isn't to say you'll see that with the next generation games, since they could still do that with current generation games while they still sell well. But those lower-priced current ge. games serve as competition for the gaming dollars.

So there will be downward pressure on game prices, although with a new console, the pace of game releases are slower so next gen games may have longer shelf life for the first year.

[macabre]

Well I will buy games from Canada too, offcourse it's not so easy to get rid of them, but I will only buy games that I want hold on to. I don't see what's the problem with Live is?, it's not locked to certain regions if that's what you mean, Europeans can play against americans, and I can play against finnish guys if I want to, atleast on most games. Are you sure you need transformer? it has extrernal powersource like PStwo and PStwo's brick can take 110-240volts, all I had to do, was to get a new cable which costs about 1$. Now I'm not sure about X360's brick, but at the worst case I may have to ditch about 50e for transformer, or for european X360 brick which should work in all X360's

I can clearly understand that importing is not appealing to everyone, but I like the cheaper price (even after taxes) and the fact that many games comes out earlier in North-America. Both my Xbox and PS2 are US-model and I have been pretty happy with them.

edit: fixed about 1000 typos


I had my PS2 stuff from there also. It was pretty good because their shippings always dodged the duty somehow.
When ordering at somwhere else I always had to pay duty fees and import taxes.
But I don`t think I will import again next gen, it`s still bit of a hassle and the voltage converter finally smoked my PS2. Oh and I don`t have a credit card anymore.

[jvd]

anyway i believe we discused this months ago ?



Personaly at launch im buying pdz and kameo and both are 50$ so to me that is a good deal when the rest of the games are 60$ . Then i will rent unless something really good comes out or things start to drop.

I'm going to just start to buy a few months down the line when things drop from now on unless a game gets really good reviews

[Shifty Geezer]

1st party games are unchanged in price. It's only the 3rd party games that have increased, and they will do the same on the PS3 and Revolution. It's an industry change, not one companies decision.It's far too early to guess Revolution's prices. We guess PS3 games will be pricey to cover extra development, but Nintendo going on about cheaper to develop for, and wanting to attract customers, a higher game price seems counter productive. I think it'd make more sense to release cheap console, cheap games, new gameplay, lower license fees, and get money off people unwilling to blow 50 bucks on a game but happy to spend 30. And the lower license fees will attract 3rd party who have to spend lots on XB360/PS3 development + higher license fees and charge more for less customers (though as jvd points out with a three tierd purchasing structure in the long term that might not be the case). Cheaper game mightr see Nintendo occupying the number-one software sales spot more often too, helping with market perception as a viable console.

[Platon]

I do hope those prices will go down after launch. I can undestand having higher prices around launch, but thse kind of prices through the whole console cycle will not be good. I could see my self getting a couple f games at launch for that prise, but after that I would be waiting for a price drop. I might give that kind of money for a game that I would really think deserves it, but there are not that many games around.

I agree with Cliffy B, pries shouldn't be over $40, makes games to an impulse bying item, not something you have to save for half a year before you get it...

[Dr Evil]

I had my PS2 stuff from there also. It was pretty good because their shippings always dodged the duty somehow.
When ordering at somwhere else I always had to pay duty fees and import taxes.
But I don`t think I will import again next gen, it`s still bit of a hassle and the voltage converter finally smoked my PS2. Oh and I don`t have a credit card anymore.

Yes some Canadian companys write lower price on the package and also I don't know where you live, but in Finland if the order isn't more than 45e customs doesn't care about it, and almost every game is below that. Importing X360 is not so great deal, because Microsoft releases their games in Europe almost the same time as in America so there aren't that many games that I'll get sooner. Sony however has different policy and because of that I'm more keen on importing PS3, Importing X360 was a "flip of coin" desicion for me. Like I said it's not sure yet that a voltage converter is reguired, I'd day there is atleast 50% chance it it isn't. However should I need it, I know some high quality converters that will not cause problems. For my Xbox I changed the powersource for european model, so it works fine.

edit: It's a pity though that canadian dollar is quite strong at the moment, not much lower than US$

[Platon]

If someone can afford a $50 game, they can afford to spend $10 more. If they can't, then they have some serious financial problems they need to resolve before worrying about gaming.


I don't know, somewhere there goes a line as o what you are willing, sometimes out of prinsiple to give for a game. I mean one could be playing the $10 forever. If they can pay $60 they can pay $10 more. If the can pay $70 what is $10 more? and so on. And if someone is bying quite a few games then yes those accumulative $10 do play a role. The solution for the gamer is fewer games, which the gamers don't like as well as the console industry as a whole I assume...